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Outside looking in: Is FFXIV dead before it really startedFollow

#1 Oct 19 2010 at 2:58 PM Rating: Good
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Bear with me for a second, This is not me trying to bash the game. This is just a true and simple "test the water" question.
I'm trying my best to patiently wait for the PS3 release. In doing so I visit these boards a couple of times a week most weeks and when the mood hits then it's increased to a couple of times a day.

I have friends who are already playing the PC version and have had trouble with server issues, control issues, lag and other things. They for the most part agree that it's a fun experience that could have been made better for various reasons.

Enough with the story, what's the point. Right? Well in the past couple of weeks all of my friends playing (on a couple of different servers) all say that they've seen a large decrese in population. This screams to me that the people who don't like the game have started to leave. A good thing I would think. But will there be enough left to let the game live on till March when the influx of PS3 players jump on? And once they do, will the game be made *right* enough for them to want to stay?


TL:DR version = I'm trying to get a pulse of the FFXIV community, does this game have enough legs to last the long run? Or am I holding my breath waiting for my new favorite MMO in FFXIV? What's your honest "feel" of the game, and why? Thanks!
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#2 Oct 19 2010 at 3:02 PM Rating: Good
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I love the game, and honestly have not seen a decrease in population in the slightest. The numbers are staying strong every time I log in.

I believe it's worth a shot, especially if you are waiting for PS3 release, I'm sure it will be more polished by then. But even with the issues the game has, I'm having fun whenever I log on.
#3 Oct 19 2010 at 3:02 PM Rating: Good
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Some people love it, some people hate it. I don't think there's any way to help you decide which one you'll be, you probably just have to experience it for yourself.

On another note, many (most?) of those who love it will agree that it's flawed. Most of those who hate it seem to hate it for reasons which will probably be corrected in the near future (read 2-4 months, purely gut instinct guess). A few who hate it just hate it without an articulable reason.

If you're playing to play with your friends and they all quit, then it sounds like your reason to play is gone. If you want to play because you suspect you'll have lots of fun doing so, then play!
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#4 Oct 19 2010 at 3:04 PM Rating: Good
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Bodhum was one of the less populated servers when I joined, and currently there are only 1k-1.4k people online at peak times. How about some of the more populated servers? That would give a nice sense of balance for server populations. If you don't know how to check server population, it's under Party from the main menu. The World: listing shows how many people are currently logged on.
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#5 Oct 19 2010 at 3:05 PM Rating: Decent
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The game definitely has potential, if you're going to be waiting for the ps3 version anyway, I strongly suggest just patiently waiting and not making any decisions now. IF they do follow through with the list of changes, and the promise to have constant updates then by ps3 launch the game will be smooth and fun but that's a while away so no reason to make a decision now.
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#6 Oct 19 2010 at 3:06 PM Rating: Decent
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How do you know how many people is on your server?
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#7 Oct 19 2010 at 3:06 PM Rating: Good
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If you're worried that FFXIV isn't going to survive, stop worrying. Smiley: wink

All MMO's are plagued with launch problems. It's the nature of the business. The forums will seem lit up, and there will be talk of population drops for months to come. But everyone I know who plays and enjoys the game see none of these things...myself included. My server (Rabanastre) is chock full of players.

But the fact that SE is a well established development company with plenty of bank behind them, means they have the means to do the heavy ironing out of bugs and time to fix what needs fixing without worrying about their one and only "MMO baby" to keep them funded, like smaller companies with new MMO's.
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#8 Oct 19 2010 at 3:06 PM Rating: Decent
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I think the game will last several years to be honest.

I mean, theres alot of "failed" games that soldier on with under a million or so subs. I also think it will turn into a good game in time. But it will never be a "success". It's going to turn out just like FFXI did with maybe 1-2 mil users at its peak, then after a couple years end up with 500-800k loyal subs to keep it hanging on for awhile. But it will never join the top 5 list on most popular MMO's.

Edited, Oct 19th 2010 7:18pm by KristoFurwalken
#9 Oct 19 2010 at 3:06 PM Rating: Good
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I played FFXI since the NA release. I feel FFXIV is a dead on arrival. I tried really hard to give this game a shot. I currently amassed 4 million gil before unsubscribing today actually.I want to be a pugilist but I feel like this game is forced crafting fantasy. When I blaze through levels on leathercrafting only to sludge my way slowly through leve grinding and gringing in general with no sense of satisfaction on pugilist.

Two days ago I downloaded WoW vanilla on a whim. Mother of god.... I was blinded by my blind faith in FFXI being superior in every way with out actually trying it before I judged kinda thing. I'm done with FFXIV and possibly never coming back at this point.


EDIT: Notable decrease on Rabnastre playing since CE released.

Edited, Oct 19th 2010 5:07pm by Moxley
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#10 Oct 19 2010 at 3:07 PM Rating: Decent
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bsphil wrote:
Bodhum was one of the less populated servers when I joined, and currently there are only 1k-1.4k people online at peak times. How about some of the more populated servers? That would give a nice sense of balance for server populations. If you don't know how to check server population, it's under Party from the main menu. The World: listing shows how many people are currently logged on.


I don't know about all peak times, but for Besaid I have seen it hovering near 3k a few times, 1.5k on less peak times.
#11 Oct 19 2010 at 3:07 PM Rating: Default
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The population has spread out a lot which can give the sense of a declining population. You'll definitely notice large crowds around the repair NPCs.
#12 Oct 19 2010 at 3:07 PM Rating: Good
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yeah, I have noticed the server population seems to have gone down in the sense of level of activity, for sure. Part of that could be players spreading out as they get more ranks...

I worry a bit about populations too cause I like the game and want it to get better and succeed.

That said, I think SE has sunk a lot of money into this beast and they are not going to let it die without a fight. I am pretty confident that by the time PS release rolls around the game will be pretty polished. PS3 release will also be another opportunity for FFXIV to get reviewed etc. If they want to make money on this project though they had better be working up some wicked content patches.
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#13 Oct 19 2010 at 3:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Every single reviewer says the game is garbage.

Who do you think is right, every single reviewer, or the fanbois that will defend the game until they shut the servers down?
#14 Oct 19 2010 at 3:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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I didn't mean to make it sound like I was on the fence about playing. I've decided to play come March no matter what the reviews are. Both industry and gamers. I've waited this long and personally can't wait to get in. I just wanted to know how people here felt. Either love it or hate it and why.
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#15 Oct 19 2010 at 3:11 PM Rating: Good
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Enscheff wrote:
Every single reviewer says the game is garbage.

Who do you think is right, every single reviewer, or the fanbois that will defend the game until they shut the servers down?

Have you read any movies review lately? Then went and watch the movies? Who do you think is right?

The logic is horrifically flawed.

I am not sure how to determine how many people are on a server at any given time. I use to do /sea all, but that no longer exists.

I have noticed no difference when I do level quests around 8-10ish PDT. Though there seems slightly less people when I level my level 1 jobs in the area to compete for mobs. That can just be people are more advanced now than before. I however only started around 10/9th, so those who didn't like the game and started early might already have left.

[Edit]
To answer your question of how I feel about the game. I find it fun. I like fishing - I was more fisherman in FFXI than I am a SAM or RDM or RNG. I play with a LS from FFXI on FFXIV. But all MMORPG you play for your friends. So that is why I am having fun. The game itself takes some getting use to, but I find that it is more hands on than FFXIV. The lack of auto-attack annoyed me at first, but as I realized that you have actions that are responsive (such as Haymaker or Phanlanx) it made more sense. I have yet to find anyone who can sucessfully make a battle reignment with me, but I think there are quite a bit of potential there as well.

The game is not ready to be released though, but in its current state, I am having fun hanging out and doing things with my LS mates.

Edited, Oct 19th 2010 2:15pm by JamesX
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#16wrongfeifong, Posted: Oct 19 2010 at 3:11 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) The game is DEAD, good bye.
#17 Oct 19 2010 at 3:12 PM Rating: Good
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I think the game has great potential.

I also think that the PS3 port will be a lot better than what it is currently. The irony being that we the PC players are making the game what it should be. Without us the PS3 port would be absolutely doomed. Right now things are up in the air. I don't see how people leaving is a good thing.

To add, I don't really see a decrease in the population. I'm on an oddball low pop "JP" server though. I'd say on average around 1,400 players at any given time. It's not lively, but the community is slowly starting to come out of it's shell.

With all of the planned fixes and additions to content made prior to the PS3 release, I think waiting until then would be smart. SE doesn't want the game to fail, and I think the community will hold them to that at the very least until next March.
#18 Oct 19 2010 at 3:19 PM Rating: Decent
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Moxley wrote:
I played FFXI since the NA release. I feel FFXIV is a dead on arrival. I tried really hard to give this game a shot. I currently amassed 4 million gil before unsubscribing today actually.I want to be a pugilist but I feel like this game is forced crafting fantasy. When I blaze through levels on leathercrafting only to sludge my way slowly through leve grinding and gringing in general with no sense of satisfaction on pugilist.

Two days ago I downloaded WoW vanilla on a whim. Mother of god.... I was blinded by my blind faith in FFXI being superior in every way with out actually trying it before I judged kinda thing. I'm done with FFXIV and possibly never coming back at this point.


EDIT: Notable decrease on Rabnastre playing since CE released.

Edited, Oct 19th 2010 5:07pm by Moxley


this same thing had happened to me a while back, I downloaded the game to test out crossfire on my new pc build and it was not bad. I played FFXI for 4 years and EQ2 for 1 year before that.
the day I got hacked right after a patch, I was terrified, but called blizz and got the CS guy was like "oh, looks like your account was comprimised, let me reset the your password, run some scans and if its clean you should be good to go."

that was the same day I got hacked, 1 hour after I was playing happily again.

when I play FFXIV the interface is a pain, I don't want to play with a controler, I still have to use my mouse and keyboard to do stuff. I'm sure SE will iron out most of the bugs but they still are miles behind most game dev's in the communication department. time will tell, lets see how the next few patches go and they might get my money again, but they got thier work cut out for them, the game has so much potential, hate to see it go to waste.
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#19 Oct 19 2010 at 3:56 PM Rating: Default
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JamesX wrote:
Enscheff wrote:
Every single reviewer says the game is garbage.

Who do you think is right, every single reviewer, or the fanbois that will defend the game until they shut the servers down?


I am not sure how to determine how many people are on a server at any given time. I use to do /sea all, but that no longer exists.

Edited, Oct 19th 2010 2:15pm by JamesX


Think about that for a second...why do you think they removed that command? You don't find it odd that after the negative reviews and massive loss of players SE removed the ability to see how many people are actually (not) playing?
#20 Oct 19 2010 at 3:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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Enscheff wrote:
Think about that for a second...why do you think they removed that command? You don't find it odd that after the negative reviews and massive loss of players SE removed the ability to see how many people are actually (not) playing?

>.>;;;;;

As far as I know that command was removed even before beta. So I am not sure what you mean... or do you mean what I think you mean? >.>;;;;;;

Might want to put the tinfoil hat down :)

But honestly, I have no idea what SE was thinking by removing /sea. Or /follow. or /smile, /grin, /nod

>.<;;;; No rhyme or reason!
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#21 Oct 19 2010 at 4:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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the party tab shows how many people are online

Smiley: schooled
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When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#22 Oct 19 2010 at 4:22 PM Rating: Good
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I think it's too early to tell if this game will last. You'd probably have a better idea after the releases coming soon like DC, WoW and SW MMOs. I'd imagine that if SE can't pull it together by then they will be in big trouble. I guess it all depends on how die hard the fans of the FF series are and how many people would still play through the issues beyond the 30 turned 60 day free trial. I personally didn't purchase the game because I won't support poor design and programming no matter how much a fan I am of the series. Love FF, but I won't support rushed releases and shoddy development.

Edited, Oct 19th 2010 6:23pm by FilthMcNasty
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#23 Oct 19 2010 at 4:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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I think there's enough people who like FFXIV to keep it going, but it's dead to me. I find it a tedious chore whenever I log in to give it another go. As it currently stands, there's no way I'll be continuing my subscription.

Which is a huge pity. I was so looking forward to this, got the CE reasoning that since I'd loved FFXI so much, this would just be better. I can't say that it is, in any way other than more polygons on the models.
#24 Oct 19 2010 at 4:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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Olorinus the Vile wrote:
yeah, I have noticed the server population seems to have gone down in the sense of level of activity, for sure. Part of that could be players spreading out as they get more ranks...

I worry a bit about populations too cause I like the game and want it to get better and succeed.

That said, I think SE has sunk a lot of money into this beast and they are not going to let it die without a fight. I am pretty confident that by the time PS release rolls around the game will be pretty polished. PS3 release will also be another opportunity for FFXIV to get reviewed etc. If they want to make money on this project though they had better be working up some wicked content patches.


Yep.

Some people are just playing other games until the kinks get worked out. Some people will never return. Others may return only if an AH is added. Some people (like me) are going to be playing Fallout: New Vegas tonight! Just temporarily distracted by other things now that the intial launch is over. Still, I'll be playing FFXIV every chance I get for a long, long time.

By PS3 time I think there will be a solid game with fun for all, and the new players will have a much better launch experience, so the retention rate will be higher. That's my prediction, anyway.
#25 Oct 19 2010 at 4:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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Enscheff wrote:
JamesX wrote:
Enscheff wrote:
Every single reviewer says the game is garbage.

Who do you think is right, every single reviewer, or the fanbois that will defend the game until they shut the servers down?


I am not sure how to determine how many people are on a server at any given time. I use to do /sea all, but that no longer exists.

Edited, Oct 19th 2010 2:15pm by JamesX


Think about that for a second...why do you think they removed that command? You don't find it odd that after the negative reviews and massive loss of players SE removed the ability to see how many people are actually (not) playing?




its actually still there.... its under that party search system
Menu > Party...... shows at the top World: XXXX nearby XXXX
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#26 Oct 19 2010 at 5:35 PM Rating: Good
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IXICascadeTaiga wrote:
its actually still there.... its under that party search system
Menu > Party...... shows at the top World: XXXX nearby XXXX


Not that it isn't enough players, but lets say on average a server has 7,000 players total (A reasonable guess considering there seems to be on average 1.5k players online, so 4 times that amount is feasible). A total of 13 servers right now, means that in total there are only 91,000 total players subscribed. In FFXI's prime there was approximately 3,500 on during peak hours and a total of about 450,000 subscribers.

From the outside looking in these numbers should be reversed seeing as how SE had a larger target market and this was their second MMO. If the PS3 release doesn't change these numbers drastically then yes this game is dead, not in the sense that game won't receive updates, but in the sense that the company is no longer allocating resources to its continued improvement (noticed I only included improvement, as most likely development will continue), which would be a shame to see as improvements in key areas could drastically change the playability for the better.


http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=125678725939708614&howmany=50

*edited for clarification*

Edited, Oct 19th 2010 7:40pm by burtonsnow
#27 Oct 19 2010 at 5:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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I think a lot of people are forcing themselves to like the game because there are no other quality alternatives out there. Soon the excitement that the game is new will wear off and people will no longer be able to keep forcing themselves to like it. Took me 3 weeks after CE release to realize it and I'm sure more are to come. However, I don't think the game will die as there are people out there that genuinely like the game and will stick with it, but it will never come close to the popularity FFXI had.
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#28 Oct 19 2010 at 5:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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burtonsnow wrote:
Not that it isn't enough players, but lets say on average a server has 7,000 players total (A reasonable guess considering there seems to be on average 1.5k players, so 4 times that amount is feasible). A total of 13 servers right now, means that in total there are only 91,000 total players subscribed. In FFXI's prime there was approximately 3,500 on during peak and a total of about 450,000 subscribers.

Not to disbute your conclusion on the future, I just wanted to point out that you are comparing the subscription number for FFXI after NA release. Which was almost 2 years after it was already released in Japan and after 1 major expansion has already been released.
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#29 Oct 19 2010 at 5:47 PM Rating: Good
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bsphil wrote:
Bodhum was one of the less populated servers when I joined, and currently there are only 1k-1.4k people online at peak times. How about some of the more populated servers? That would give a nice sense of balance for server populations. If you don't know how to check server population, it's under Party from the main menu. The World: listing shows how many people are currently logged on.


Here in figaroland i've seen consistent 2800-3100 during peak times (usually the morning for me, think most of its JP players), after work in the evening I see numbers along the lines of about 1600-1800.
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#30 Oct 19 2010 at 5:54 PM Rating: Good
Ya, NA Primetime on Besaid floats around 1400, and JP can go upwards of 2800. That will probably rise once the PS3 version comes provided they've fixed the flagrant issues and people are still around to see the fixes.
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#31 Oct 19 2010 at 5:58 PM Rating: Good
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I've been watching the server numbers on Palamecia like a hawk. The reason I have been was because I was very disappointed with my guild for picking a mid-populated server. I knew starting in beta2 that this game would always be niche. No auction house, no content, no kbam, ridiculous menu lag would mean like any other recent MMO release it would be strong right out of the gate and then sputter and die. You should have seen the ludricrous amount of complaints in beta. 100's of complaints and maybe the same ten posters defending the game over and over. It will die slower due to the additional free month, but die it will. At launch (not CE but regular launch) the numbers were about 1900-2100 most times. Today, its 1134. Thats a very significant drop for a brand new game, means people aren't logging and very few new subscribers. Even the additonal 30 days doesnt seem to bring in new traffic. The bad reviews and the bad word of mouth is doing its work. The fanboys are unable to bring in new accounts because anyone who already knows them either personally or through the internet already know they're idiots.
#32 Oct 19 2010 at 5:59 PM Rating: Good
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7pm cst, 1154 people on Fabul ... How many of those are afk bazaars? How many are JP? No clue, but it definitely feels dead.
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#33 Oct 19 2010 at 6:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Today is not the best day to measure server population :)

http://www.buzzbiznews.com/033189/fallout-new-vegas-release-date/

Nor the next week >.>; 1 for one will not be playing as much either, due to what I linked above.
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#34 Oct 19 2010 at 6:08 PM Rating: Good
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It will be fine. No worries. Rome wasnt built in a day and neither are perfect MMOs.

I wanted to get in on the ground floor to experience everything that sux now so that I can appreciate things more when it hits its stride and finds a groove in the years to come.

Some ppl are way too impatient and want to quit. If thats the case do so but dont let your pride keep you from coming back when you hear how awesome the game is in the future.

Then you will regret not crafting or lvling earlier on.
#35 Oct 19 2010 at 6:20 PM Rating: Good
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There are times on Rabanastre where there are under 1,000 people on. And the free trial period isn't ending for awhile. Not good.

The game as it is is a joke. I won't even bring it up to my friends to gauge their interest anymore, because I know I couldn't recommend it to them with a straight face. I understand changes are in the works, but it is what it is right now, and furthermore, if this is what they came up with after five years.. How can you really be sold that it'll all be fixed in a few months?
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#36 Oct 19 2010 at 6:22 PM Rating: Good
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many (most?) of those who love it will agree that it's flawed. Most of those who hate it seem to hate it for reasons which will probably be corrected in the near future (read 2-4 months, purely gut instinct guess). A few who hate it just hate it without an articulable reason.


Quote for truth. Everybody knows it needs to be fixed -- even SE, thankfully! -- and if the company stays true to their promises, it should shape up as well as FFXI. Right now, FFXIV is eerily similar to its predecessor's launch: no AH to start with, many server problems, and an additional free month for all; and if that's any indication of its future growth pattern, things are looking positive.
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#37 Oct 19 2010 at 6:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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Reading some of the posts I'm getting very confused by the vast array of opinions. I play almost entirely DoH/DoL only, I've played some gladiator in order to get fire crystals. Last night I was told that I'm only enjoying 10% of the game because crafting is only here to make higher level gear and shouldn't be used as a main job in the game. Yet reading posts on here, it sounds like crafting composes at least 75% of the game from other people's vantage points. Guess that's just a great example of how people can have different opinions (although I hate it when people try to force their opinions on me).

I have to say I'm amazed at how many people see the rushed, unfinished game and assume before one month is up that it's dying already. This really shouldn't have been released until the PS3 version's ready (When's that? March?). It could have done with a few more rounds of beta, or one long round of beta (which is essentially what this month and next month are, although people who call it a "paid beta", just remember, these first two months are free! You still (probably) would have paid for it at the more realistic release). Although I do enjoy the game already. The problems with the market wards doesn't really hurt me too much, I've had to buy maybe 2 or 3 things since joining, I'm trying to make the rest, or I've bartered for it.

I think the premature release will hurt them in the long run, but there is a community of people who are willing to wait out the storm in hopes of a spectacular game rising.
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#38 Oct 19 2010 at 6:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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KristoFurwalken wrote:
I think the game will last several years to be honest.

I mean, theres alot of "failed" games that soldier on with under a million or so subs. I also think it will turn into a good game in time. But it will never be a "success". It's going to turn out just like FFXI did with maybe 1-2 mil users at its peak, then after a couple years end up with 500-800k loyal subs to keep it hanging on for awhile. But it will never join the top 5 list on most popular MMO's.

Edited, Oct 19th 2010 7:18pm by KristoFurwalken



You have an amazingly inflated idea of what MMORPG population figures are generally like. World of Warcraft is far and away in a class of its own in that respect. FFXI peaked out at about 650,000, and is probably in the top five, and certainly in the top ten; it definitely ranks above Everquest, which peaked at about 500,000. I'm thinking that FFXIV will probably not do as good; the press has just been brutal. I think it'll get about 200,000 or so. Not that great, but enough subscription fees that SE will be willing to keep it going, so it'll be good enough.

Edited, Oct 20th 2010 7:59am by ChrisMattern
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#39 Oct 19 2010 at 6:49 PM Rating: Good
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I finding enough in the game to enjoy to keep me playing for now - I just avoid the stuff that annoys or frustrates me as much as possible (i.e. market wards....).

Regarding the survivability of FFXIV, I'm hoping they are able to bring some significant improvements in the near future to make the overall experience more enjoyable. As others have noted, I think it's important that some noticeable improvements are seen before the upcoming wave of big-name MMOs - namely WoW Cataclysm and Guild Wars 2.

I'm definitely no WoW fan - I played it for a while because a friend played it, but got bored and didn't hang around very long. I simply didn't enjoy it as much as FFXI. However stuff like the UI and general playability was without question leagues above what FFXIV is now in its current state. The subscriber base for WoW speaks for itself, Blizzard's track record speaks for itself - whether you love or hate WoW you have to admit it's the big gorilla in the room as far as MMO goes. FFXIV's biggest positive so far has been it's graphics , but Guild Wars 2 is shaping up to also be a very pretty looking MMO as well, and off course, GW2 will have no monthly subscription fee I believe.

A lot of people are using the argument that FFXI had a rocky start as well to rationalize the notion that FFXIV will also definitely survive. This argument is extremely flawed - these people are forgetting that when FFXI was released, there was no WoW, no Guild Wars, etc. FFXI simply did not have the amount of competition for subscriptions in the MMO space as FFXIV does today.
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#40 Oct 19 2010 at 7:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Let me give you the tldr; version:

If you played early FFXI and liked it you will like FFXIV.

If you played later FFXI and liked it you will like most of this game, you need to be able to stomach a sizable grind to enjoy this game.

If you didn't like FFXI you will not like this game.

If you thought WOW was the greatest thing since sliced bread but needed something new, you are not going to like this game.

If you are a fan of old school (pre 2004) MMO's then you might enjoy this game.

If you do not fit any of these criteria but your computer can run the came then maybe give it a shot after the december version update.
#41 Oct 19 2010 at 8:20 PM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
Every single reviewer says the game is garbage.

Who do you think is right, every single reviewer, or the fanbois that will defend the game until they shut the servers down?


Problem is, I've read several reviews that I think are garbage. I get the feeling a lot of these reviewers weren't big fans of FFXI, either. And I have to wonder how many of these reviewers are being influenced by the mob mentality of criticizing this game, because, let's face it... if there's one thing people on the Internet love, it's drama!

That said, this game definitely has problems, but for many people these problems aren't so bad that the game is unplayable. Not only are lots of people having fun with this game, but they also have confidence that these fixable issues will indeed be fixed by the end of the year. Square Enix has every reason in the world to fix these issues, and zero reasons not to.

So when I look at FFXIV, I see a highly innovative (and stunningly beautiful) game that is backed by a giant company with vision and funding, with the promise of getting better and better.

For me, personally, why on earth would I leave?

Now, to address this post's title... how is the perception from the outside looking in? Well, because of all the negative reviews, I'd say many people will be staying away from this game for awhile. However, I don't foresee any impact on subscriptions for the PS3 release. This game will be firing on all cylinders long before then... if it's not, I'll be incredibly surprised. It's just that I seriously doubt that SE wants to flush millions of dollars down the toilet, so I'm assuming they'll fix the UI and the market wards, etc.

Anyway, in summary... this game isn't going anywhere. The people who really want to leave and play WoW would have left and played WoW anyway. The people who really want to play a Final Fantasy title online will be back once the game has been out for awhile and the wave of negativity has cooled off... but most of us will probably just stick around and continue to develop our characters.
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#42 Oct 19 2010 at 8:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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Thayos wrote:
Quote:
Every single reviewer says the game is garbage.

Who do you think is right, every single reviewer, or the fanbois that will defend the game until they shut the servers down?


Problem is, I've read several reviews that I think are garbage. I get the feeling a lot of these reviewers weren't big fans of FFXI, either. And I have to wonder how many of these reviewers are being influenced by the mob mentality of criticizing this game, because, let's face it... if there's one thing people on the Internet love, it's drama!

That said, this game definitely has problems, but for many people these problems aren't so bad that the game is unplayable. Not only are lots of people having fun with this game, but they also have confidence that these fixable issues will indeed be fixed by the end of the year. Square Enix has every reason in the world to fix these issues, and zero reasons not to.

So when I look at FFXIV, I see a highly innovative (and stunningly beautiful) game that is backed by a giant company with vision and funding, with the promise of getting better and better.

For me, personally, why on earth would I leave?

Now, to address this post's title... how is the perception from the outside looking in? Well, because of all the negative reviews, I'd say many people will be staying away from this game for awhile. However, I don't foresee any impact on subscriptions for the PS3 release. This game will be firing on all cylinders long before then... if it's not, I'll be incredibly surprised. It's just that I seriously doubt that SE wants to flush millions of dollars down the toilet, so I'm assuming they'll fix the UI and the market wards, etc.

Anyway, in summary... this game isn't going anywhere. The people who really want to leave and play WoW would have left and played WoW anyway. The people who really want to play a Final Fantasy title online will be back once the game has been out for awhile and the wave of negativity has cooled off... but most of us will probably just stick around and continue to develop our characters.



I saw the same exact argument for Vanguard, a game I upgraded my computer for I might add.


/sigh....
#43 Oct 19 2010 at 8:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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ReiThor wrote:
I didn't mean to make it sound like I was on the fence about playing. I've decided to play come March no matter what the reviews are. Both industry and gamers. I've waited this long and personally can't wait to get in. I just wanted to know how people here felt. Either love it or hate it and why.


I love the game for what it could be, but hate the game for what it currently is.

The game is beautiful and the storyline (though chalked full of arbitrary level restrictions and lacking any sense on continuity considering half the time they don't even tell you what it is you're supposed to be doing or waiting for or when you're going to get it) is actually rather fascinating when you get deeper into it at the later ranks.

I love that crafting skills are their own classes, but I hate that you're pretty much forced to level every single craft to be able to do anything. Wanna grind? Well you better have the crafting skills to repair your gear or else you'll be wasting tons of anima to teleport to and from town to NPC repair it (which only repairs your gear up to 75% and won't repair accessories of any kind) and you'll very quickly run out of anima to teleport. Which means you either spends hours grinding out those crafts, or spend hours running to and from camps when your anima runs out.

I hate, hate, HATE the durability system. There is NO system more redundant and arbitrary to implement in a video game than gear durability. I realize that SE wanted to keep crafting classes relevant somehow by implementing some sort of system that kept their skill in demand even after the market is flooded with items, but durability is just trash. It's nothing but a way to artificially prolong the relevance of jobs that most people who play MMOs don't enjoy leveling in the first place. (If you do enjoy it that's great, but you have to admit that most people who play MMOs do so to punch ugly monsters in the face, not to weave a scarf with a needle). The funny thing is that by forcing people to repair gear, SE is causing more people to level their own crafting jobs which only causes the hardcore crafters to become even more useless than they would be otherwise. It's a rather self-defeating system really...

Now I'm not going to get into retainers, bonus exp, or any of the other 10,000 things that have been rehashed and that SE has stated will get fixed or adjusted in future content updates. No point in that.

tl:dr

The game has a LOT of potential, but like many things SE has released in FFXI, that potential is yet to be fully realized. SE becomes so worried about balance and realism that they tend to suck any sense of "fun" or "adventure" right out of the system. Many of the issues players have will be patched, but I hope they find a better way to 'balance' things than to simply make everything else as bad as what already exists.
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#44 Oct 19 2010 at 8:38 PM Rating: Good
37 posts
Thanks for this thread. Again and again people post threads like this which spark the 19 day old question.... Is this game garbage? or is it not? You'll only know whether you like this game or not if you've tried it yourself. I can only tell you what my personal thoughts are on this game, and to be upfront and honest with you. I'm not a fan. Simply put, to many things wrong and not enough things right.

I've played many different MMO's from release, and always play them knowing they'll sooner or later get better. MMO's aren't an exact science and take time to build on. The problem here for me is that it's not the game that's flawed. In my opinion It's Square Enix's "we built it, you have to love it mentality." A company who doesn't care about things that may be wrong until it begins to effect their profits. I had the privilege to Alpha and Beta test this game, and for three quarters of a year SE heard our concerns but did not listen, they chose to do very little about the foundation cracking issues of this game. It wasn't until three weeks after release that they realized they were wrong and things needed to be addressed. These things had already been brought to SE attention nearly a year ago, but with blind faith they moved forward. For me personally, I find it a slap in the face for them to sit back and tell me that all will be well just give them time. Nope, sorry I gave you nearly a year of my life to test a game which wasn't even all that good in alpha and beta or even closed beta in hopes that the released product would be worth my purchase.

My previous mmo playing history is

3 years with Final Fantasy XI (My first MMO, probably one of the most balanced games back in the day)
4 years with WoW (Loved this game for the community it provided. Very strong, and mature guild. Rich end game)
9 months with Aion (To be honest I found it to much like wow, wanted something more refreshing)
19 days with FFXIV (Not the quality game I was hoping for. Very disappointed with the way that SE handled everything about this game/release. As for the extra free month of game play? well lets just say it does nothing to entice me to continue playing a game that I have no further interest in playing)

As for the decrease in population? well I was on the server Wutai. They closed this server for like five days just a couple of days following the release due to high server population. I tried to make an alt on this server just a few days ago and it was down to one chocobo. Now this can be attributed to a number of things including people rerolling on other various servers to be with friends or canceling their subscriptions. Who knows, and to me it doesn't matter, the fact is the population is noticeably less on Wutai than it was.

Disclaimer:
Again these are my personal thoughts on a game, I am not speaking for others here. I'm sure there are many people out there that will enjoy paying for a game that will some day be decent. But lets be honest if you're reading through the forums for a newly released game and over two thirds of the posts are complaints on "how much this game could be better if only......" Then that's a game I'd refrain from buying.

#45 Oct 19 2010 at 8:38 PM Rating: Excellent
It's not really meant to be an argument... it just is what it is.

Long before launch day, I was telling a friend how I'd be shocked if FFXIV got any good reviews from the gaming media. Just from paying attention to opinions about FFXI over the years, it's pretty clear that the Final Fantasy model of MMO does not appeal to the stereotypical western gamer.

Granted, FFXIV had more problems at launch than even the fanbois thought it would, but this game is getting knocked down for what it is as much as it's getting penalized for actual problems.

If I were to give this game a letter grade, I'd give it a flat C. Not an A, but not an F, either. In its current state, this game has too much wrong with it to be considered above average... but it's also unique enough (in my opinion) not to be considered a D or an F.

That said, I can see why people who already don't like these types of games would give it a D or an F. But why would I take someone else's word for it, when I have my own opinion?

And now, to make my own bad analogy of the day: If Final Fantasy XIV is the Ultimate Fighting Championship, then why would I base my opinion of the game on reviews written by soccer moms?

Edit: To any die-hard WoW fan reading this, I'm not trying to accuse you of watching soccer.

Edited, Oct 19th 2010 7:41pm by Thayos
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#46 Oct 19 2010 at 8:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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For me what will probably make me not return is none of the people I game with will give this game another chance. They have tried. I was the only one in group with CE copy. They joined later and after 3 weeks I hardly see any of them logged on. The biggest gripe from them is the UI (we are PC gamers not console) and the AH. The no jumping also made them feel boxed in. No climbing, swimming, or jumping of any sort makes it hard for gamers who have had this option in other MMO.

In the end this game will probably do OK but no where near the potential it was slated for. There is just so many annoying features to fix for them to get a strong sub base early. Add in the high end hardware needed for this game and you will have a niche game of a few 100k sub if they're lucky. People realy are underestimating the hardware needed for this game as a factor.
#47 Oct 19 2010 at 8:57 PM Rating: Decent
37 posts
Great post Thayos
#48 Oct 19 2010 at 8:58 PM Rating: Good
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I admittedly didn;t read the whole thread. This is merely a statistic in response to the OP:

I have been playing the game since first day of CE launch. Initially I was seeing 1700-1800 on the server at 8pm pacific time. I had to wait in que 1 time and I was first in line so my server obviosuly isn't one of the more popular ones.

Now about a month later server pop at 8 pm is around 1200 so about 1/4 of the original population is no longer with us. How much of this is cancellation and how much is people who are no longer AFK bazaaring I cannot say. what I can say is the server pop is down 600 ppl on average in 1 months time.

In contrast on FFXI I am seeing right at 2k every night at the same time. (post server merge)

-Teeg

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#49 Oct 19 2010 at 9:19 PM Rating: Good
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Well if your worried about the game shutting down, then please dont.

Subscription MMO's are as a general rule not going to shut down as long as they have enough players to pay for the server bill. With a $13 a month sub and the current number of servers active, FFXIV would only need about 180,000 active acounts to still be making a small profit.

I'm fairly certain there are a few more active subs than that and dont see it dropping below that for a good 10-15 years.
#50 Oct 19 2010 at 9:31 PM Rating: Good
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Jagged311 wrote:
Well if your worried about the game shutting down, then please dont.

Subscription MMO's are as a general rule not going to shut down as long as they have enough players to pay for the server bill. With a $13 a month sub and the current number of servers active, FFXIV would only need about 180,000 active acounts to still be making a small profit.

I'm fairly certain there are a few more active subs than that and dont see it dropping below that for a good 10-15 years.


but thats the thing, there are no active subs, its still free. when people have to pay its another ballgame, the extra free 30 days is what stopped more people from bailing before the 30 days were up.
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#51 Oct 19 2010 at 9:37 PM Rating: Good
32 posts
~_~ they made enough money off of the initial sells that they could afford to give us 5 free months most likely.

There is so little chance of them closing this game down that i dont know how you could even consider it.
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