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Outside looking in: Is FFXIV dead before it really startedFollow

#52 Oct 19 2010 at 9:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Jagged311 wrote:
~_~ they made enough money off of the initial sells that they could afford to give us 5 free months most likely.

There is so little chance of them closing this game down that i dont know how you could even consider it.


not saying it will close, that I'm sure it won't, but a lot of people are staying hoping for SE to work that miracle they are promising. honestly, I hope they do, but if they don't by the time the free ride is up, some of the people that will leave will not come back.

hopefully the by PS3 launch the game can bounce back and get a strong player base, only time will tell.
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#53 Oct 19 2010 at 10:18 PM Rating: Decent
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SleeplessMickey wrote:
I love the game, and honestly have not seen a decrease in population in the slightest. The numbers are staying strong every time I log in.

I believe it's worth a shot, especially if you are waiting for PS3 release, I'm sure it will be more polished by then. But even with the issues the game has, I'm having fun whenever I log on.



truth: the population hasnt decreased as much

its just that players are finaly not all in the same area on top of each other so you dont see as many in the same spots

overall the servers still feel rather populated
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#54 Oct 19 2010 at 10:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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Thayos wrote:
It's not really meant to be an argument... it just is what it is.

Long before launch day, I was telling a friend how I'd be shocked if FFXIV got any good reviews from the gaming media. Just from paying attention to opinions about FFXI over the years, it's pretty clear that the Final Fantasy model of MMO does not appeal to the stereotypical western gamer.

Granted, FFXIV had more problems at launch than even the fanbois thought it would, but this game is getting knocked down for what it is as much as it's getting penalized for actual problems.

If I were to give this game a letter grade, I'd give it a flat C. Not an A, but not an F, either. In its current state, this game has too much wrong with it to be considered above average... but it's also unique enough (in my opinion) not to be considered a D or an F.

That said, I can see why people who already don't like these types of games would give it a D or an F. But why would I take someone else's word for it, when I have my own opinion?

And now, to make my own bad analogy of the day: If Final Fantasy XIV is the Ultimate Fighting Championship, then why would I base my opinion of the game on reviews written by soccer moms?

Edit: To any die-hard WoW fan reading this, I'm not trying to accuse you of watching soccer.

Edited, Oct 19th 2010 7:41pm by Thayos


I'm wondering if you could elaborate on this part:

Thayos wrote:
this game is getting knocked down for what it is


It seems like you're saying that the game is getting flak for its inherent "Eastern" qualities, but I'm not seeing that, myself. As I see it, the things that FFXIV gets glaringly wrong are universal: UI, lag, intuitiveness, depth of content...things like that. Heck, many of the necessary game components were already extant in FFXI, yet are conspicuously missing in FFXIV (Mail? Inventory sort?). Their omission can only be attributed to a failure on SE's part, not to a failure of western media to comprehend SE's vision. The reviews that I read correctly noted all of these things, and used them to come to ratings that accurately reflect how the game matches up with the industry standard.

To use your bad analogy Smiley: tongue:

If in the UFC, fighters took 30 minutes to enter the ring after they'd been announced, spent the next 15 minutes signing paperwork that acknowledged that they were there to fight, then fought for 15 seconds before ending in a draw, anyone would be right to criticize those glaring production faults. Soccer moms and MMA aficionados alike.

Edited, Oct 20th 2010 12:45am by Eske
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#55 Oct 19 2010 at 11:41 PM Rating: Good
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Eske, Star Breaker wrote:
If in the UFC, fighters took 30 minutes to enter the ring after they'd been announced, spent the next 15 minutes signing paperwork that acknowledged that they were there to fight, then fought for 15 seconds before ending in a draw, anyone would be right to criticize those glaring production faults. Soccer moms and MMA aficionados alike.


Except in this case it didn't take forever for the fight to start. SE tossed their 'fighter' into the ring with out training, experience or even a mouthpiece for that matter. The king of the ring(WoW) is just laughing as XIV is curled up in a ball crying in it's corner. The other contenders(GW2, SW and DC) just kicking back gathering comments from the aficionados and the soccer moms on how not to royally ***** themselves over like SE has. I cannot for the life of me figure out why SE pushed this into the octagon so early and so out of shape.
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30 bucks is almost free

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Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#56 Oct 20 2010 at 12:24 AM Rating: Good
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Eske, Star Breaker wrote:
If in the UFC, fighters took 30 minutes to enter the ring after they'd been announced, spent the next 15 minutes signing paperwork that acknowledged that they were there to fight, then fought for 15 seconds before ending in a draw, anyone would be right to criticize those glaring production faults. Soccer moms and MMA aficionados alike.


Except in this case it didn't take forever for the fight to start. SE tossed their 'fighter' into the ring with out training, experience or even a mouthpiece for that matter. The king of the ring(WoW) is just laughing as XIV is curled up in a ball crying in it's corner. The other contenders(GW2, SW and DC) just kicking back gathering comments from the aficionados and the soccer moms on how not to royally ***** themselves over like SE has. I cannot for the life of me figure out why SE pushed this into the octagon so early and so out of shape.


Win.

And also share the same sentiment on what their reasoning was to push a game out this fast. It's baffling.

They claim they spent 5 years making this game. With what? A team of 5?

The outer areas are copy pasted. The dungeons seem generic. The cities are lifeless and bland. There are a handful of monsters. No single part of the game has been polished (not even the graphics).

It boggles the mind on so many levels. This isn't a startup studio, this companies been around almost since the birth of video games (NES era anyway).

To answer the question posed by the OP: This game died shortly after release. There's no going back. PS3 launch WILL NOT save it. The PS3 is no where close to the behemoth PS2 was. There will be a small blip at PS3 launch but thats it.

Most of the gaming community has already passed judgment on this game having read professional/user reviews. This game (after it's free period) will continue it's steady population decline as more and more of the hardcore fanboys realise that there is no light at the end of the tunnel. The shortage of subscribers GUARANTEES that square will not be able (or care) to dedicate the resources to content patches and new expansions that most players would expect from a paid MMO.

This game will (unfortunately) be forgotten sooner than later.
#57 Oct 20 2010 at 12:33 AM Rating: Default
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I'm not sure how I feel about how SE planned all of this.

On the other hand I can see why they started getting feedback so early- when the game was only in Alpha. Because SE is not a company that tries to copy anyone but themselves, it is absolutely necessary that the public can start giving feedback on the development as soon as possible. People can keep saying how SE "doesn't listen" but the fact of the matter is that if the Beta started around now instead of April and lasted until March, the game would be in a much worse shape at this point due to lack of feedback from the public.

And it would be especially unfortunate because they aren't going to make large changes forever. At some point they will have to consider the game "ready" and focus mainly on content instead. The later in the development process we come to the picture, the less time we have to really affect the big picture- and we know that SE can't make the game as good as it can be by themselves.

Next year should be the best one for this game, nonetheless. The changes in vanilla are the largest we will probably see in this game's lifespan. The first expansion will then build the foundation for the real endgame content wise.

If the game doesn't suddenly die for some reason or the other, we have a great few years on the way for us.

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The PS3 is no where close to the behemoth PS2 was. There will be a small blip at PS3 launch but thats it.


Yes, internet access for PS2's was such a common occurrence back then. PS2 version was never even released in Europe. The console didn't even have a HDD by default. A platform just made for MMO's indeed.

And let's not forget how MMO's back then were so mainstream and not awkward pseudo-games that cost monthly money to play. It's not like WoW made the genre mainstream and more publicly accepted, which I am sure will not help XIV too.

Edited, Oct 20th 2010 6:38am by Hyanmen
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#58 Oct 20 2010 at 1:00 AM Rating: Decent
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The only help SE will get from releasing this MMO on console is the fact that Japanese gamers prefer consoles 2 to 1 over PC games. That ratio is reversed for US and European gamers so it probably won't have much of an affect unless there are many, many people waiting to see how well the game is doing by then. An effect that is probably negated by the fact that there is competition coming before then likely to take a lot of those gamers who would be interested in XIV away.
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HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#59 Oct 20 2010 at 1:02 AM Rating: Decent
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It's not 2002 anymore. People actually have choice. When an MMO developer botches a launch, it always hurts them. And the irony is that if you've been around the MMO scene for any length of time, you know that most new MMOs in the last few years have botched their launches but we still seem to hold out hope (if not demand) that launch go flawlessly, everything be polished, content be available in abundance, lag be nearly (or fully) absent, and in general, nothing needs to be fixed. It's a rather naive approach but some people never learn.

I've checked the server population on Istory for the last three nights running. I never seem to remember to do so before 9pm PST which, during the week, doesn't really adequately account for east coast players. Regardless, for the last three nights running (F3: New Vegas or not), the population has sat between 1200-1300. By modern standards, that's a catastrophe for an MMO not even 30 days after launch. Servers should be pushing 3k during their slow times with peak times in the 4-5k range.

I'm still playing, but my tolerance for certain issues is wearing extremely thin and if I'm to remain an active player into 2011, SE needs to follow through with their promises in a timely fashion. From the day the game was first announced and throughout its development, I've been one of SE's most vocal critics. Since open beta and through CE launch, I've been one of their biggest proponents. To my way of thinking, SE couldn't afford to release a niche game which is exactly what they did. But not only did they release a niche game, they released one a full 3 months (if not more) before they should have. At some point they need to let go of certain dated design philosophies and if they're going to try to play on the global stage, they need to demonstrate a better understanding of what works outside Japan and what doesn't. SE can tell a story like no other developer in the business, but when it comes to MMOs they need to do more than that. They need the total package or they need to realize that they're always going to underperform.
#60 Oct 20 2010 at 1:06 AM Rating: Good
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I've actually checked the number of players on my server just about every time I log in. Compared to launch window, it's down between 30-40% (depending on day and time)--been dropping steadily every week. I've scoped a pretty wide cross section of times spanning NA mid-day, afternoon, late night, and early morning (2 or 3am), it seems pretty flat. Weekends are the only major peak I've noted, but they're down the same percentage week over week.
#61 Oct 20 2010 at 1:07 AM Rating: Decent
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FFXIII has sold over 2,4 million copies in the West.

I assume those players prefer PS3 for their Final Fantasy experience rather than PC, especially when the PC version is so resource-demanding.

There is no competition coming to the PS3 anytime soon. There is no other similar MMO coming to the PC market either. SE has a niche that is largely unaffected by other games of the genre.

For me, personally, there is only FFXIV or there is nothing at all. There is no game to compete with XIV for me. I am not the only one.
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#62 Oct 20 2010 at 1:29 AM Rating: Good
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Hyanmen wrote:
FFXIII has sold over 2,4 million copies in the West.

I assume those players prefer PS3 for their Final Fantasy experience rather than PC, especially when the PC version is so resource-demanding.

There is no competition coming to the PS3 anytime soon. There is no other similar MMO coming to the PC market either. SE has a niche that is largely unaffected by other games of the genre.


FFXIII's sales don't really make sense to compare here. It's a single player action/RPG game that isn't even the same genre. Consoles mop the floor with PCs in terms of most genres of games, but MMO is completely different. Most of the NA and EU sales for this game will be for the PC version. This is the major reason why there will be no competition for PS3, the demand simply isn't there.
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#63 Oct 20 2010 at 1:30 AM Rating: Decent
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um dc universe online is trying to be the first ps3 mmo so ff14 isn't only one
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#64 Oct 20 2010 at 1:36 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
FFXIII's sales don't really make sense to compare here. It's a single player action/RPG game that isn't even the same genre. Consoles mop the floor with PCs in terms of most genres of games, but MMO is completely different. Most of the NA and EU sales for this game will be for the PC version. This is the major reason why there will be no competition for PS3, the demand simply isn't there.


Yeah, you can't straight out compare them, but there is no need to. If half of those people try the game out and 1/4th stick with the game, that is around 600 000 PS3 users in the West alone. It would not be unreasonable to expect same kind of appeal in Japan, even if only around 1,8 million copies of XIII were sold there.

And the fact that only the current-gen consoles have finally made online gaming more common is the reason why there are no proper console MMO's either. Online gaming in today's console gaming is huge, but it wasn't like this just a few years ago.

In fact, even "inferior" genres tend to do well on consoles. Just look at the FPS genre. Who in their right mind would pick a gamepad over keyboard+mouse combo for an FPS? Yet they sell like crazy for consoles.

I can assure you that there is a demand, and SE's largest target audience remains on the consoles. They can't just steal their playerbase from other games, they need to build their own. Once again.
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#65 Oct 20 2010 at 1:42 AM Rating: Decent
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Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
FFXIII's sales don't really make sense to compare here. It's a single player action/RPG game that isn't even the same genre. Consoles mop the floor with PCs in terms of most genres of games, but MMO is completely different. Most of the NA and EU sales for this game will be for the PC version. This is the major reason why there will be no competition for PS3, the demand simply isn't there.


Yeah, you can't straight out compare them, but there is no need to. If half of those people try the game out and 1/4th stick with the game, that is around 600 000 PS3 users in the West alone. It would not be unreasonable to expect same kind of appeal in Japan, even if only around 1,8 million copies of XIII were sold there.

And the fact that only the current-gen consoles have finally made online gaming more common is the reason why there are no proper console MMO's either. Online gaming in today's console gaming is huge, but it wasn't like this just a few years ago.

In fact, even "inferior" genres tend to do well on consoles. Just look at the FPS genre. Who in their right mind would pick a gamepad over keyboard+mouse combo for an FPS? Yet they sell like crazy for consoles.

I can assure you that there is a demand, and SE's largest target audience remains on the consoles. They can't just steal their playerbase from other games, they need to build their own. Once again.


You're pulling numbers out of your **** to prop up an argument that you can't make. First, FFXIV (even if it had a flawless launch) would only appeal to a very small fraction of the people who bought FFXIII. Not half, not a quarter. Not by a long shot. Games made by western developers for a western market focusing on the dominant MMO platform for western gamers haven't hit 600,000 subscriptions at launch. To even dork around and pull 600,000 out of your hat as even a remote possibility is ludicrous. Western console contribution to FFXIV's population will be lucky to breach the 100k mark at launch and of those, not all of them are going to stay.
#66 Oct 20 2010 at 1:51 AM Rating: Decent
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You're pulling numbers out of your **** to prop up an argument that you can't make. First, FFXIV (even if it had a flawless launch) would only appeal to a very small fraction of the people who bought FFXIII. Not half, not a quarter. Not by a long shot. Games made by western developers for a western market focusing on the dominant MMO platform for western gamers haven't hit 600,000 subscriptions at launch. To even dork around and pull 600,000 out of your hat as even a remote possibility is ludicrous. Western console contribution to FFXIV's population will be lucky to breach the 100k mark at launch and of those, not all of them are going to stay.


Initially, I am sure that is the case. But as the game becomes more and more popular, more fans of the Final Fantasy franchise are going to give it a go too. It is like FFXI, but in a larger scale (due to MMO's becoming more mainstream and PS3 being easier to set up for online play).

I am not talking about launch here, obviously. MMO's on the consoles are the Wild West of gaming and there is nothing to imply that 600,000 would be easy to achieve, but it is silly to say that it is not possible to achieve in the long term at all. Launch numbers has not meant much for most of the currently successful MMO's out there. If XIV can peak at 600,000 PS3 users in the West sometime in it's lifespan, that I don't see as an impossible feat to achieve.

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#67 Oct 20 2010 at 2:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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Thayos wrote:
It's not really meant to be an argument... it just is what it is.

Long before launch day, I was telling a friend how I'd be shocked if FFXIV got any good reviews from the gaming media. Just from paying attention to opinions about FFXI over the years, it's pretty clear that the Final Fantasy model of MMO does not appeal to the stereotypical western gamer.

Granted, FFXIV had more problems at launch than even the fanbois thought it would, but this game is getting knocked down for what it is as much as it's getting penalized for actual problems.

If I were to give this game a letter grade, I'd give it a flat C. Not an A, but not an F, either. In its current state, this game has too much wrong with it to be considered above average... but it's also unique enough (in my opinion) not to be considered a D or an F.

That said, I can see why people who already don't like these types of games would give it a D or an F. But why would I take someone else's word for it, when I have my own opinion?

And now, to make my own bad analogy of the day: If Final Fantasy XIV is the Ultimate Fighting Championship, then why would I base my opinion of the game on reviews written by soccer moms?

Edit: To any die-hard WoW fan reading this, I'm not trying to accuse you of watching soccer.

Edited, Oct 19th 2010 7:41pm by Thayos


i loved FFXI to death but i can't give this game anything higher than a D. i'm sorry but besides the story and graphics, the core gameplay and ALOT of design decisions are not fun.

FFXI had me hooked instantly. This game just doesn't have what FFXI had. theres to much to go into detail about what i don't like, and it's all been said before. The only thing i can do is watch the forums and hope for a miracle.

Also as a side note, reviews are NOT meant to tell you if you should buy a game or not. They are only guidlines. Majorities of people tend to be right, that is why you need to look at alot of review scores to see if a game is good or bad. That doesn't mean you won't like the game, some people do. just that an all around bad score, high score, middle score, tends to tell you if you have a better chance of liking the game or not liking it. From there, the choice to rent/buy is up to you.
#68 Oct 20 2010 at 2:13 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:
FFXI had me hooked instantly. This game just doesn't have what FFXI had. theres to much to go into detail about what i don't like, and it's all been said before. The only thing i can do is watch the forums and hope for a miracle.


The 'miracle' being a year and half of development time that XI had over XIV.

Hallelujah.
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#69 Oct 20 2010 at 3:27 AM Rating: Decent
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Actually in all MMO there are bound to have haters and lovers of the game.
you can have for example anti WoW players who love FF11..

At launch date, all those who wants to play FF14 came. by a certain period, all those who hate FF 14 or have given up will leave for other MMO of their liking.(i can't make you like opera if you like death metal)

There are a lot of anti-Ff14 here who hates to see this game grow as well as alot of fanboy here who do anything to defend the game.
Not to mention people who had NEVER play this game will comment on it as if they have play the game.

My honest recommendation to you is to believe only 50% of what you read and hear in forum,review or friends. try it your self. If you have friends who had already started playing, get the buddy pass from them or anything...just try it...

Posts that discuss why i love this game and why i hate this game are crap...





#70 Oct 20 2010 at 5:45 AM Rating: Good
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The 'miracle' being a year and half of development time that XI had over XIV.

Hallelujah.


Nothign to do with that, it's to do with the fact that FFXIV is rushed crappy game with god awful ideas that needed to be kept away from sale for another 6 months at least. Jp players got FFXI at start and it was praised pretty well and had a high playerbase for that kind of game, thats not the case this time.

If you really wanna argue that as the route cause then honestly maybe they should of done the staggered launch again cause they killed this game with their incompetance.

Edited, Oct 20th 2010 7:47am by preludes
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#71 Oct 20 2010 at 7:39 AM Rating: Decent
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When I started Selbina the numbers where in the 3k? is that possible? maybe I have a fuzzy memory. But now....its 1-1.2k during est peak times. And yes I've notice a long time ago that whenout in the "fields" things looked empty. I dont belive its because people are more spread out either. I go all over the place, running from LL to Grad. From after week one of CE I've seen a steady decrease in activity. The only thing on the rise is the number of lvl 35+ crafters we have.
#72 Oct 20 2010 at 7:44 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Nothign to do with that, it's to do with the fact that FFXIV is rushed crappy game with god awful ideas that needed to be kept away from sale for another 6 months at least. Jp players got FFXI at start and it was praised pretty well and had a high playerbase for that kind of game, thats not the case this time.


FFXI was worse when it came out.

None of us would have played the game in the condition it was released in for the PS2.

But really, are you going to argue about things you have no freaking idea of? FFXI was complete fail of an MMO for the longest time, but lo and behold, it got fixed in time for us. And XIV will be even better as time goes on.
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We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#73 Oct 20 2010 at 8:11 AM Rating: Good
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Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
FFXI had me hooked instantly. This game just doesn't have what FFXI had. theres to much to go into detail about what i don't like, and it's all been said before. The only thing i can do is watch the forums and hope for a miracle.


The 'miracle' being a year and half of development time that XI had over XIV.

Hallelujah.



So you're admitting to the release of FFXIV being horribly early.
#74 Oct 20 2010 at 8:13 AM Rating: Decent
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Sigmakan wrote:
The population has spread out a lot which can give the sense of a declining population. You'll definitely notice large crowds around the repair NPCs.


Indeed!

I remember walking to camp Drybone and Camp Horizon a few days after launch. Those places were a deserted. Now there's tons of peeps standing around the crystal.
#75 Oct 20 2010 at 8:14 AM Rating: Decent
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The alternative would be Guild Wars 2, Diablo 3, or The old Republic... sadly none of them are released yet :| .. God Guild Wars 2.. orgasmic gameplay...

This game might just get good by December, assuming they follow through with their promises and flow of bug fixes ... Either way this game should be flatten out with glaringly obvious bugs by the PS3 release.. bugs will still be there but won't be so obvious


note: you are stupid to compare diablo's graphics with it's predecessor, or guild wars 2 gameplay with it's predecessor... Or the old republic with star wars galaxies..

Edited, Oct 20th 2010 10:16am by nick2412
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#76 Oct 20 2010 at 8:24 AM Rating: Decent
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Good thread, interesting read with my morning coffee.

For all the negative reviews and flames XIV is enduring right now, there sure are a lot of people with hundreds of hours invested into their toons with multiple jobs / crafts leveled to 20+ already. You people must love to hate this game….

I have seen absolutely NO decline in population on my server. As another poster said above, this game isn’t going anywhere. SE + FF pedigree + rabid fanbois = profit and longevity. I’ve played a lot of MMO’s from a lot of publishers and SE knows how to make it work; this game will be great. That being said, FFXIV “as is”, is anything but.

Personally, I’d recommend you wait for the PS3 release. I wish I had. A lot of kinks will be worked out by then and the overall experience will be much more cohesive, less painful, and less frustrating. I played FFXI at NA release in the days of SC+MB before TP burns existed. It was kind of fun to test out game mechanics and strategize for each and every fight and figure things out for yourself. But in hindsight, what a monumental waste of my time and energy when leveling became so much more efficient as the game evolved over time.

If you get off on being on the cutting edge of an MMO release, jump on in. Otherwise, I’d wait it out because things are going to become a lot more streamlined in the coming months. I prefer to leave the gamma and delta testing to other people with more free time.
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#77 Oct 20 2010 at 8:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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Long term I wouldnt worry about the population too much until the PS3 release. We don't know how many people are waiting to play it on that, and how many people may pick it up for the PC then due to advertising (which I hope they actually do this time).

However, number of players is going down, and that number didn't start off too high to begin with. Maybe its people quitting, maybe its people who don't log in often at all anymore but are still around. a much better way to judge would be to see subscription numbers come 11/30, but no way does SE reveal that. I remember reading somewhere that the NA preorder sales of the game were about 330K copies, and I'd be suprised if more than half of that is left.
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#78 Oct 20 2010 at 8:57 AM Rating: Good
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FFXIV has one unique advantage that most other MMO don't get, resurrection. FFXIV gets a second chance when it is released for console versions because it'll be re-reviewed. SE just has to make sure all the T are crossed and I are dontted.
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#79 Oct 20 2010 at 9:03 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:

Actually in all MMO there are bound to have haters and lovers of the game.
you can have for example anti WoW players who love FF11..

At launch date, all those who wants to play FF14 came. by a certain period, all those who hate FF 14 or have given up will leave for other MMO of their liking.(i can't make you like opera if you like death metal)

There are a lot of anti-Ff14 here who hates to see this game grow as well as alot of fanboy here who do anything to defend the game.
Not to mention people who had NEVER play this game will comment on it as if they have play the game.

My honest recommendation to you is to believe only 50% of what you read and hear in forum,review or friends. try it your self. If you have friends who had already started playing, get the buddy pass from them or anything...just try it...

Posts that discuss why i love this game and why i hate this game are crap...



Where did you get the idea that people posting here never played the game? You know who does that? The rabid fanbois who bash WoW - those are the ones who do that. Everyone here has played the game (FFXIV), and most of us since beta. Some even since Alpha. To say that people here are commenting without ever having played the game sounds more like a guilty conscience.

What is being posted IS true, and that's why the rabid fanbase is so upset. I'm upset too. No one wants to see the game fail. I don't spend money on a product because I am on a crusade to see it fail. You have to start reading the reviews for what they are: Honest opinions of the state of a game released in 2010. SE is living in a vacuum and needs to take a good look around, because other developers are just leaving them in the dust.

#80 Oct 20 2010 at 9:19 AM Rating: Good
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Ryneguy wrote:

All MMO's are plagued with launch problems. It's the nature of the business.


This is true, and about three-quarters of all MMOs released are dead after 6 months.

Its not just having problems which is dooming this game, it is the type of problems that the game has. Having issues like stability, bugs, class balance, etc is one thing, but when you have a game that has as many problems with core fundamental components, like the UI, environment, chat, economy, progression, group play, etc, its not gonna survive.
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#81 Oct 20 2010 at 9:19 AM Rating: Good
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lsykora wrote:
I think a lot of people are forcing themselves to like the game because there are no other quality alternatives out there. Soon the excitement that the game is new will wear off and people will no longer be able to keep forcing themselves to like it. Took me 3 weeks after CE release to realize it and I'm sure more are to come. However, I don't think the game will die as there are people out there that genuinely like the game and will stick with it, but it will never come close to the popularity FFXI had.


I agree with this guy. I can't grind to level as doing the math it would take 125 mobs to ding and that is further slowed by some kills not giving SP and gear breaking down well before that number is met. And ding for what? Next level I get nothing but maybe a few more attributes pulled from my physical level.

I log in, do leves, log out. I'm used to a exciting game that I can't put down but sadly this game gives me my few hours of tasks to complete then off I go to watch TV or something. That kind of attitude won't keep me subbed when the next hyped up game comes along.

If many feel like I do then December patches won't be enough to keep droves of people from going back to WoW (not me, I've overcome my wow addiction). I am more interested with what the pop numbers look like in December more so than today.
#82 Oct 20 2010 at 10:12 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:
So you're admitting to the release of FFXIV being horribly early.


Have I ever said it wasn't?

Quote:
SE is living in a vacuum and needs to take a good look around, because other developers are just leaving them in the dust.


Yep, all those successful MMO's since 2005 will soon kick XIV's ***... Oh wait, they didn't do any better. Scary.

Edited, Oct 20th 2010 4:15pm by Hyanmen
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#83 Oct 20 2010 at 10:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
You're pulling numbers out of your **** to prop up an argument that you can't make. First, FFXIV (even if it had a flawless launch) would only appeal to a very small fraction of the people who bought FFXIII. Not half, not a quarter. Not by a long shot. Games made by western developers for a western market focusing on the dominant MMO platform for western gamers haven't hit 600,000 subscriptions at launch. To even dork around and pull 600,000 out of your hat as even a remote possibility is ludicrous. Western console contribution to FFXIV's population will be lucky to breach the 100k mark at launch and of those, not all of them are going to stay.


Initially, I am sure that is the case. But as the game becomes more and more popular, more fans of the Final Fantasy franchise are going to give it a go too. It is like FFXI, but in a larger scale (due to MMO's becoming more mainstream and PS3 being easier to set up for online play).


Except that the odds of drawing in any substantial number of players after the fact are slim to none. It just doesn't happen. An MMO launches and, thanks to the pre-launch hype, typically draws in hundreds of thousands of players. If the launch is a disaster (as it has been with FFXIV), it loses a substantial number of those players in the first 1-2 months. This is already happening, evidenced by the extended trial period.

Rarely will a developer get those players back. That's because, as per my first statement in a previous post in this thread, people actually have a choice these days. They either go back to their previous MMO of choice or they twiddle their thumbs and wait for the next offering to hit the market. That's just how it goes. PS3 launch isn't going to add as many NA players as the PC launch cost SE. PS3 launch in Japan might go a long way to bolstering SE's subscriber base, but again...outside of Japan, most people play their MMOs on PC and very few people who own consoles are interested in using those consoles for an MMO.

MMOs don't ever fully recover from thoroughly botched launches. XIV may wind up being the exception and it's not like I'm wishing failure upon SE, but you have to be reasonable. XIV is too niche and has received too much bad press to even contemplate the idea of 600k users playing the game from PS3 alone. Look at games like AoC and Warhammer that had botched launches and huge content deficiencies at launch and even after they "recovered" several months later, I don't think either of them ever got back to the number of people they had playing at release.

XIV never had 600k people playing at PC launch. They'll be hard pressed to ever get 600k active subscriptions throughout the lifespan of the game and that's across all supported platforms. They made a niche game for a niche market and they ****** off a huge segment of that market. Very difficult to recover from.
#84 Oct 20 2010 at 10:28 AM Rating: Good
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Devildawgs wrote:
Thayos wrote:
Quote:
Every single reviewer says the game is garbage.

Who do you think is right, every single reviewer, or the fanbois that will defend the game until they shut the servers down?


Problem is, I've read several reviews that I think are garbage. I get the feeling a lot of these reviewers weren't big fans of FFXI, either. And I have to wonder how many of these reviewers are being influenced by the mob mentality of criticizing this game, because, let's face it... if there's one thing people on the Internet love, it's drama!

That said, this game definitely has problems, but for many people these problems aren't so bad that the game is unplayable. Not only are lots of people having fun with this game, but they also have confidence that these fixable issues will indeed be fixed by the end of the year. Square Enix has every reason in the world to fix these issues, and zero reasons not to.

So when I look at FFXIV, I see a highly innovative (and stunningly beautiful) game that is backed by a giant company with vision and funding, with the promise of getting better and better.

For me, personally, why on earth would I leave?

Now, to address this post's title... how is the perception from the outside looking in? Well, because of all the negative reviews, I'd say many people will be staying away from this game for awhile. However, I don't foresee any impact on subscriptions for the PS3 release. This game will be firing on all cylinders long before then... if it's not, I'll be incredibly surprised. It's just that I seriously doubt that SE wants to flush millions of dollars down the toilet, so I'm assuming they'll fix the UI and the market wards, etc.

Anyway, in summary... this game isn't going anywhere. The people who really want to leave and play WoW would have left and played WoW anyway. The people who really want to play a Final Fantasy title online will be back once the game has been out for awhile and the wave of negativity has cooled off... but most of us will probably just stick around and continue to develop our characters.



I saw the same exact argument for Vanguard, a game I upgraded my computer for I might add.


/sigh....


I did the exact same thing with VG, which is why I am wise to what is currently happening with FFXIV. I stuck with VG for almost 2 years and played through endgame raiding. VG released too early and got slammed in reviews, but not quite as bad as FFXIV has been. They slowly removed dev support, merged servers, and now VG is just a dead game with people still talking about "potential".

MMOs do not survive devastating releases like this. FFXIV will truck on with minimal support for a while, but eventually it will be left with minimal dev support. It has a small chance of a revival with the PS3 release, but I have a feeling the terrible reviews of the PC release will ruin PS3 sales.

Expect to see servers merged within a year. Expect to see a combo deal with FFXI where you get an account for both games for a lower price.
#85 Oct 20 2010 at 10:36 AM Rating: Good
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FFXI was worse when it came out.

None of us would have played the game in the condition it was released in for the PS2.

But really, are you going to argue about things you have no freaking idea of? FFXI was complete fail of an MMO for the longest time, but lo and behold, it got fixed in time for us. And XIV will be even better as time goes on.


How do you know, did you play the JP release version because they seemed pretty impressed with that game at release...unless you can find the kind of discontent about FFXI at launch this game has earned worldwide. Anyway that was 10 years ago, you could get away with that then. You can't now, even on a FF title.

This is their 2nd attempt at an MMO with the first being a success, they learnt nothing and simply make even worse mistakes the 2nd time? I'm sorry but I can't believe any other major experienced MMO creator has ever created a game worse than 14 is now, I have played many MMO's and there has never been one that was this painful and annoying to play to the point of forcing me to logoff in disgust. Even PSU at release was more acceptable.

FFXIV was always going to be players other MMO, very few people that want to play an MMO are new to the genre these days as they were with FFXI and as such demand certain things of the game, they totally ignored that aspect. In FFXI it wouldnt matter if there was no AH or pretty much anything cause nobody knew any better, these days leaving basic stuff out and putting something in it's place that does not work is totally unacceptable and they are paying the price for that ignorance of experienced players needs.

Years ago fans had to stand in the pouring rain to watch their sports team play, these days there are toilets, at least partial cover from the weather, seating, shops to buy food etc. If a new arena was built today and was like the ones from 40 years ago you think the owners saying "well it was fine 40 years ago so why is everyone complaining now" would cut it?
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#86 Oct 20 2010 at 10:49 AM Rating: Good
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Vanguard never, ever recovered from its bad launch, the difference between FFXIV and Vanguard is content. Vanguard could have been a contender, the core game, the classes, the diplomacy, the crafting, housing all of that was there. Best classes I've seen in any game to date, actually. It failed and failed hard because of largely technical issues and showstopping bugs. No one could run the game properly, even those with state of the art equipment. The content was there and could have been refined if only they could have cleared technical problems at launch.

FFXIV is the opposite. Technically, it runs fine. Well, there is lag, especially menu lag. But overall my experience has been smooth. It has a kickass crafting mechanic and a very interesting approach to class development. These two things are great, they really are but its like having a meal with a great cut of meat, and a fine glass of milk but wheres the rest? No vegetables? No garnish? No spices? No bread, no gravy, no dessert. Where's the rest? Ultimately I think this is why people are in an uproar about the market wards, lack of inventory space and the UI. If the game was actually good and chock full of things to do and see, (and yeah there is a few things to see but sheesh, go to some of the points of interests and theres no reason for it, no story, no nothing) the market wards and such would not be near the issue that it is right now. They are a placeholder issue if you will. Even when SE fixes these things, they will still lose subs, because really there isn't anything to do, other than craft and leves. We'll have a bunch of 50's in both crafting and combat and do it all again with a different job. And why even race to cap? They don't even have an early game, let alone an end game. Just pointless landmarks. I'll still hang on, at least til the free time runs out because I want to believe, but I play maybe an hour a day.
#87 Oct 20 2010 at 10:53 AM Rating: Good
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NoOneHereAlive wrote:
Vanguard never, ever recovered from its bad launch, the difference between FFXIV and Vanguard is content. Vanguard could have been a contender, the core game, the classes, the diplomacy, the crafting, housing all of that was there. Best classes I've seen in any game to date, actually. It failed and failed hard because of largely technical issues and showstopping bugs. No one could run the game properly, even those with state of the art equipment. The content was there and could have been refined if only they could have cleared technical problems at launch.

FFXIV is the opposite. Technically, it runs fine. Well, there is lag, especially menu lag. But overall my experience has been smooth. It has a kickass crafting mechanic and a very interesting approach to class development. These two things are great, they really are but its like having a meal with a great cut of meat, and a fine glass of milk but wheres the rest? No vegetables? No garnish? No spices? No bread, no gravy, no dessert. Where's the rest? Ultimately I think this is why people are in an uproar about the market wards, lack of inventory space and the UI. If the game was actually good and chock full of things to do and see, (and yeah there is a few things to see but sheesh, go to some of the points of interests and theres no reason for it, no story, no nothing) the market wards and such would not be near the issue that it is right now. They are a placeholder issue if you will. Even when SE fixes these things, they will still lose subs, because really there isn't anything to do, other than craft and leves. We'll have a bunch of 50's in both crafting and combat and do it all again with a different job. And why even race to cap? They don't even have an early game, let alone an end game. Just pointless landmarks. I'll still hang on, at least til the free time runs out because I want to believe, but I play maybe an hour a day.


Have to agree Vangaurd was bad because it crashed like a MotherF all the time. Still does! I tried!

FFXIV nice and stable no problems ever. Just nothing to do.
#88 Oct 20 2010 at 11:13 AM Rating: Good
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If I remember correctly, FFXI celebrated its ninth anniversary last May, which means it launched in Japan more than two years before the NA launch. By 2003, many of the original problems had already been worked out, so it was a smooth-running game.

With the world-wide launch of FFXIV, we had the advantage of creating our characters on the first day, but that also means that we must endure the awkwardness of playing until SE gets the kinks out.

There is much to enjoy about FFXIV. There is also much to complain about. But I am convinced that it will get better quickly. (I understand that even FFXI started without an AH.) Even now, however, given a choice bewteen FFXI, where I have three jobs to level 85, and FFXIV, where my highest is my lvl 14 Gladiator (but I also have seven or eight crafting and gathering jobs to level 12 or so), I prefer being in Eorzea.

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#89 Oct 20 2010 at 11:14 AM Rating: Good
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Thayos wrote:
It's not really meant to be an argument... it just is what it is.

Long before launch day, I was telling a friend how I'd be shocked if FFXIV got any good reviews from the gaming media. Just from paying attention to opinions about FFXI over the years, it's pretty clear that the Final Fantasy model of MMO does not appeal to the stereotypical western gamer.


I don't mean to sound rude, but this statement right here just sounds like pure justification for the fact the game is poorly designed in its current state. I really don't want to take your fun from the game, because honestly if we truly want to I believe we can have fun doing anything. Which brings me to my next point...you just seem to be justifying playing the game to make it more fun for yourself. You are right, this game is not an F, there are a lot of good ideas in this game. But there are also a lot of barriers in this game which prevent you from fully utilizing said ideas.

Just because something is unique doesn't give it any merit for its ability to be a good product. There are thousands of unique products that fail, just watch a series of Pitchmen and you will see exactly what I am talking about. Here are some more examples as well: http://www.walletpop.com/specials/top-25-biggest-product-flops-of-all-time/#


The problem with your analogy is that soccer moms do not watch any sort of fighting. I think a better analogy would be if FFXIV is the UFC, it is not that bad of an idea to base your opinion off a commentary from a boxing commentator.
#90 Oct 20 2010 at 11:27 AM Rating: Default
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Except that the odds of drawing in any substantial number of players after the fact are slim to none. It just doesn't happen. An MMO launches and, thanks to the pre-launch hype, typically draws in hundreds of thousands of players. If the launch is a disaster (as it has been with FFXIV), it loses a substantial number of those players in the first 1-2 months. This is already happening, evidenced by the extended trial period.


Your theory has few flaws:

A) XIV, unlike other MMO's, has a niche. Other MMO's compete against each other, and it always results in a failure because you can't out-WoW WoW.

B) Other MMO's try to steal players from other MMO's. They are in no way trying to build their own playerbase, except maybe Korean MMO's. They either don't have the name or the game to stand out from the crowd. They just want a slice of that pie that is the current MMO industry.

C) For many people, there is no choice. For all of the FF fans who want to play an FF MMO, there is no choice. This game is made for a niche, there are no choices to be had. And that is the game's biggest strength. It doesn't need to compete.

Why play AoC and Warhammer when there is WoW? It does everything better. But WoW is not the answer if somebody doesn't like XIV.

But in reality, it doesn't matter who they ****** off. Only idiots would not play the game when it is good just because years ago it was bad. That just doesn't make sense. Especially if you skipped the launch due to poor reviews (which every rational fellow should have). There is nothing to indicate that a good game can not be successful.

And for your info, Warhammer and AoC still suck.
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#91 Oct 20 2010 at 11:48 AM Rating: Good
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Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
Except that the odds of drawing in any substantial number of players after the fact are slim to none. It just doesn't happen. An MMO launches and, thanks to the pre-launch hype, typically draws in hundreds of thousands of players. If the launch is a disaster (as it has been with FFXIV), it loses a substantial number of those players in the first 1-2 months. This is already happening, evidenced by the extended trial period.


Your theory has few flaws:

A) XIV, unlike other MMO's, has a niche. Other MMO's compete against each other, and it always results in a failure because you can't out-WoW WoW.


There's no arguing that XIV is a niche game, but where your argument seems to fall apart is that you seem to be under the impression that people who might be drawn to XIV would only be drawn to XIV. While that may be true for some players, it is certainly not true for most, and it's the "most" that defines the difference between a thriving game ad a flat game. I don't mind the niche aspect of XIV, but in no way am I the kind of player who would only be satisfied by those things SE does right to the exclusion of all else. I'm not going to play a game that irritates or bores me as much if not more than it entertains me. Niche or not, most players feel the same way.

Quote:
B) Other MMO's try to steal players from other MMO's. They are in no way trying to build their own playerbase, except maybe Korean MMO's. They either don't have the name or the game to stand out from the crowd. They just want a slice of that pie that is the current MMO industry.


SE is no different. MMOs do not lend themselves to SE's strengths. SE strength in RPGs lies in storytelling. That is it. And MMOs are not the ideal platform for storytelling. What that means is that SE is taking something they do at a mediocre level (gameplay mechanics) and applying it to a genre where other people are doing those things better (MMOs) and hoping that their strength (storytelling) will be enough to get them through. And for some players, it will be. For most, it won't.

Quote:
C) For many people, there is no choice. For all of the FF fans who want to play an FF MMO, there is no choice. This game is made for a niche, there are no choices to be had. And that is the game's biggest strength. It doesn't need to compete.


If by many you mean more than 100, sure. If by many you're referring to the MMO market in general, no. For many MMO gamers, their choice is a game they like or the next best thing or the next best thing or the next best thing. If FFXIV presents itself as #8 on that list of next best things, it will not end well for SE.

Quote:
Why play AoC and Warhammer when there is WoW? It does everything better. But WoW is not the answer if somebody doesn't like XIV.


That was umm...ya...I'm going to try and forget you even typed that.

Quote:
But in reality, it doesn't matter who they ****** off. Only idiots would not play the game when it is good just because years ago it was bad. That just doesn't make sense. Especially if you skipped the launch due to poor reviews (which every rational fellow should have). There is nothing to indicate that a good game can not be successful.


No, only people who moved on to something else that they enjoyed more than XIV aren't going to come back to XIV just because years ago it was bad. That's the point. You seem to be happily flitting about this delusional world where everyone is just waiting for the next SE MMO and filling time in between. It doesn't work that way. Most MMO gamers either have an MMO they enjoy already or are looking for a different MMO to enjoy and they don't give a **** who makes it. If it's good, they'll play it and they'll play it for a long time. If it's not, they move on and they rarely come back.

And I never said AoC or Warhammer turned into good games. I'm saying that after launch the devs fixed a lot of issues in each game to the point where some people who were turned off at launch came back and those who stuck around through it all were at least partially appeased. And neither of those games ever returned to the number of people they had at launch. And based on that, we could say that if SE is going to buck that trend, they've got a long, hard slog ahead of them.
#92 Oct 20 2010 at 11:49 AM Rating: Good
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My advise to the OP is to try and avoid forums (or at least complaint threads) about ffxiv until the PS3 release. There are a lot of issues and problems (more of the latter) being discussed right now about the game that will likely be irrelevant come next March. Also, you'll tend to find the people most vocal in forums are the ones really disappointed with this game, and they'll often generalize and speak on behalf of the majority, which I find to be inaccurate.

From my personal experience, the game has been enjoyable and fun. And the people I play with and talked to in game all enjoy the game as well, except a couple. Granted, there are problems which need fixing, I still believe that you'll find a large number of players playing well beyond the PS3 release. And if you're lucky the players who hate this game will have left by then so PS3 players will start the game with players who share their enthusiasm.
#93Hyanmen, Posted: Oct 20 2010 at 12:02 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) So your point is that something better is going to come along that will replace XIV for the majority of it's potential playerbase (which does not even exist yet)? In an industry where there hasn't been a successful title in what, 5 years? That is worrying indeed. Other crappy titles might come and steal SE's spotlight by failing one after another.
#94 Oct 20 2010 at 12:11 PM Rating: Good
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Hyanmen wrote:

SE is the only company that "gets it". EVERY single MMO has mediocre gameplay. Every. Single. One. The only strength that MMO's have over other genres is the social aspect- the aspect that modern MMO's have sacrificed for individuality and convenience- aspects that other genres already do better. I'm not sure if intentional or not, but SE realizes that without social aspects, MMO's are complete crap. Meanwhile other companies just try to make everything more and more convenient.

.


lol,

I'm sorry but the gameplay in FFXIV is nothing but mediocre. The combat is the most basic, and generic combat system in any MMO made within the last 10 years.




Reading these forums it's clear how many people have only played FFXI, and maybe WoW. And are somehow MMO aficionados.


Edited, Oct 20th 2010 2:15pm by KristoFurwalken
#95 Oct 20 2010 at 12:13 PM Rating: Decent
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Thayos wrote:
It's not really meant to be an argument... it just is what it is.

Long before launch day, I was telling a friend how I'd be shocked if FFXIV got any good reviews from the gaming media. Just from paying attention to opinions about FFXI over the years, it's pretty clear that the Final Fantasy model of MMO does not appeal to the stereotypical western gamer.

Granted, FFXIV had more problems at launch than even the fanbois thought it would, but this game is getting knocked down for what it is as much as it's getting penalized for actual problems.

If I were to give this game a letter grade, I'd give it a flat C. Not an A, but not an F, either. In its current state, this game has too much wrong with it to be considered above average... but it's also unique enough (in my opinion) not to be considered a D or an F.

That said, I can see why people who already don't like these types of games would give it a D or an F. But why would I take someone else's word for it, when I have my own opinion?

And now, to make my own bad analogy of the day: If Final Fantasy XIV is the Ultimate Fighting Championship, then why would I base my opinion of the game on reviews written by soccer moms?

Edit: To any die-hard WoW fan reading this, I'm not trying to accuse you of watching soccer.



If I could rate you up - I would - I agree with this so hard. I don't think any of us who enjoy the game would disagree that it has problems and doesn't deserve a high mark from reviewers - but so many of the reviews seemed to be p^ssing on the game for things it was never meant to be.

Like saying oh it sucks because there is no PvP - well the game wasn't designed to be for people who like PvP - it was designed with PvE as the main focus. It is like giving a first person shooter a bad review because it isn't pokemon. They are different genres aimed at different audiences - and **** if I wanted PvP I wouldn't be seeking out FFXIV and games of its ilk.

No one is saying that FFXIV deserved A ratings from the gaming community - but as another poster pointed out by comparing the gamespot rating to similar rated games - the ratings are way lower than is justifiable.

I'd agree the game deserves a C. It has a lot of stuff that needs fixing. I don't disagree. I have posts on the feedback forum that make that clear.

Yet server stability is ace - actual bugs are minimal - there is lots to do (despite what some people would say) - it is beautiful - the job system is awesome - and the music is pretty good.

It isn't a 3/10. That's crap. And when you read the review - which talks about "crafting a gun rather than buying it" when there are no guns available period - you have to wonder if they played at all or just cut and paste someone else's bad review and tried to make it their own by adding inaccurate commentary that they thought was funny.
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When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#96Hyanmen, Posted: Oct 20 2010 at 12:16 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to imply here. Let's try again, but this time, comprehend the text you just quoted.
#97 Oct 20 2010 at 12:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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the game was obviously, OBVIOUSLY released 6 months ahead of schedule. the only thing in the game to do right now is grind. there is no feeling of "must stay logged in" that other mmos have, and this is due to no content.

the game looks pretty and the way they handle ranking and leveling is awesome.

SE knows what theyre doing. ffxi was a fantastic game. all the money and years theyve put into this one will bear fruit, we just have to be patient. Its "too big to fail".

this is coming from one of the players who view logging in more as a chore btw, not a fanboy. The developers may have made a horrendously bad decision with the early release but they arent stupid - changes will be implemented in time for ps3 release in march and by that time we will have a workable mmo.

off topic, i would love to hear from management why they decided to release early. its mind boggling. the veteran mmo'ers here could have all foretold, if they played beta, that the game was going to have a horrid release being in the state it was. It doesnt take a degree in mmo's to have known that.
#98 Oct 20 2010 at 12:23 PM Rating: Good
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So are you saying that the strength of this game is the social aspect. Since every other mmo has boring gameplay, SE's trump card is the social aspect of the game.

By making a game where it's harder to make a grp than any other mmo, and no one talks, and the ones that do talk cant understand eachother because they speak different languages.

All this game has going for it is gameplay. And the gameplay it has is the most boring of any.
#99 Oct 20 2010 at 2:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah, I was also surprised by the comment of the social aspect. Nobody chats in game, nobody groups, a game this early after launch should be full of chat, discussing the game, slamming other games etc. At most, people interact with other people's retainers and maybe their personal bazaar.

Sure, you may be very social with your linkshell but I can be social with my guild just by hopping onto vent without paying for the privilege of doing so. In fact, in game my ls is the only people I am being social with. This is the least social game I've played.
#100 Oct 20 2010 at 2:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm curious, people call 14 a niche game. What niche do you think it fits in? All I can think of is overly complex and grindy like the mid 90s games, or heavy crafting.
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#101 Oct 20 2010 at 3:17 PM Rating: Good
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"too big to fail".


You should never say this, it's tempting fate and FXIV is not in a good position to throw out these kinds of statements...cause yes it can. Also honestly, it's already failed from what they wanted, cause nobody wants their game to launch to this kind of reception and low userbase.

With more work this game could of been epic and I and most of the people that are annoyed with it would of been right in there throwing praises on it, I love the FF worlds and I am a huge fan of FFXI but if a game is crap its crap, and 14 sure fits into that category.
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