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How does your age pertain to your view of FF and MMOs?Follow

#1 Oct 21 2010 at 5:03 PM Rating: Good
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I am 28 years old, which I understand is close to the mean/median age of MMO players. I started playing Final Fantasy games in 1997 at age 15 when FFVII hit. This fancy new thing called Playstation's graphics blew my young impressionable mind and the story seemed age appropriate and compelling. I was hooked. After that I bought Final Fantasy tactics, which I loved, and, in the years following, I picked up all the FFs released on PS2 and a few re-releases.

During this period I had no knowledge of Squaresoft or Square Enix other than the fact that their name was on the boxes I had been buying at every opportunity for a decade, which is to say, I thought they were awesome.

When FFXI launched in 2003 I was busy going to college [and the bar]. I had no idea what an MMO was. Indeed, few people did. After my raucous college years passed, life began to settle down [a little]. Since I had some free time again I picked up FFXI. I had no idea what I was getting into.

I ended up playing the game for three and a half years; joined a great LS, leveled 6 jobs, and conquered all the content that was in the game at the time. In many ways, it was a great experience.

However, there were so many god **** things in that game to complain about!!! I eventually got sick of it; RMT, the economy (15m g scorpion harness?), the drama caused by bots, crazy balance issues (SMN; completely useless? or just useless for everything but HNMs?, BLM woes/TP burn), and of course SE's reckless use of the ban hammer and lack of customer service. The way SE handled all of that stuff was mind boggling.

Of course all this reflection has been inspired by FFXIV. A new generation of gamers are playing. I am old to many of them (young at heart though). Outside of XI, the best FF ever got for me was VII and Tactics. Had I not played those games when they came out, which many new gamers did not, I wouldn't be so attached to the FF brand. I haven't followed all the spin-offs that have come out in recent years, so I don't know if the quality of those games is enough to bring new players into the fold?

Do younger gamers have any investment in the FF series, or MMOs at all? How do your gaming behaviors reflect your age?
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#2 Oct 21 2010 at 5:20 PM Rating: Good
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I"m pretty close to your age range, I'm 26. I started playing with FF4 at 9 (toyed with), and FF6 at 11 (put in hundreds of hours). I had nothing but respect for square soft during the PSone years, everything they pumped out was pure gold to me. However, once the PS2 came out, I feel they lost something. X was pretty good, and X-2 was actually pretty good from a game play stance, but the story was awful. After that though, everythings been pretty mediocre, and they're attempts to cash in on FF7's popularity to me are silent admittance that they've lost it. Basically what I'm saying is that for FF13 and 14, the name squaresoft and Final Fantasy meant nothing to me.

When i came into FF14, I was expecting the same magic from FF11, since it was mostly the same team involved.
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#3 Oct 21 2010 at 5:40 PM Rating: Good
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Could be the entire gaming industry in general. I tend to look at it like Hollywood. A few big hits and a whole lot of mediocre spin offs. Not every game they come out with will be good. Although their FF series of games seem to all be the same (and i friggin love all of them.) Same goes for some other companies. I also think that the 500lb gorilla MMO that I won't mention had to do with a lot of it. Everyone wants to be that 500lb gorilla so a ton of top level decision making has been made due to that other game.

I am sure that Square-Enix as a company are getting burned out. I noticed that they have been playing with new methods of making RPGs (Infinite Undiscovery, The Last Remnant, and the non-turn based FF games.) When I grew up with Final Fantasy it was always turn based. I am assuming they did that due to technical limitations, but its what I loved and enjoyed for hours on end. I think that is why a lot of us (my opinion of course) are not liking the new games they come out with. We like that Final Fantasy turn based feel and the new games do not have that. Maybe the younger generation loves the live action fast game play. I don't know I guess I can ask my 10 year old nephew.

But to OP. I see what your saying and I hope Square-Enix can find their place again. Maybe their next title will actually just be called "Final Fantasy" with the same meaning behind their original game. If that's the case I will be pretty sad that they gave up on it.
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#4 Oct 21 2010 at 6:25 PM Rating: Good
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I wanted FFXIV to be the **** "girl next door" type gorilla. The one that isn't all flash and glamour, but once the hair came down and the glasses came off she turned into a freak!

#5 Oct 21 2010 at 7:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm 26. My first FF game was FFIV, then "FFII". Beat it. Bought Mystic Quest later, beat it. Played VI (III US) later, almost beat it. I get to Kefka's Tower and then give up because I figure "I'm almost there, and final dungeon crawls are balls so ***** it, I win." I first played VII over a friend's house because I didn't own a Playstation yet; eventually saved up and bought one (which I later made the mistake of loaning to someone whose deadbeat husband kicked her out of the house and I never got my original PS1 back, but she had enough problems after that without needing to worry about my PlayStation anyway) and borrowed 7 so that I could play it. Beat it. Later went back and did all teh side crap. I have even attempted one playthrough where I went home from school on Friday, started FF7 at the beginning, and played it through until the final boss fight on Sunday Night/Monday morning. I think I ate once or twice, but didn't stop. I don't believe I slept, either. I remember playing the demo for 8; I think it came with another SE game; I want to say Vagrant Story but I could be mistaken. Bought 8 shortly after it came out and got to the beginning of disk 4 before I hit the same wall I did in 8: "I'm more or less there. @#%^ it, I win." Bought 9 shortly after it came out as well. Beat it. I ended up buying Anthology and Chronicles later, and playing 1, 2, and 3 through roms, although I kept my eye out for a physical copy of 1, just to have. I've actually bought a lot of old console cartridges that I've never played the cartridge, "just to have" come to think of it. But I digress.

I was a late adopter to the PS2 as well. Borrowed FFX from a friend. I still have never beat it to this day. I have attempted to play it through on four occasions and on all four occasions, I cruise along until just about Macalania temple. In every single playthrough, somewhere between "Rides the shoopuff?" and immediately after finishing the temple, I turn off the game for the night and then I just never come back to it because I suddenly get totally bored with the game. It sorta hits a lull there and I've never been able to get past it.

In April 04, I bought FFXI as the suggestion of a friend who was a 45DRG and ****** off at SE for the multihit WS nerf; he figured that if he knew someone IRL that played XI, he'd stay longer. He was wrong, but I stayed and played until March of 2010. I didn't even know about XI until I was told about it (because we all know how much money SE put into advertising XI, amirite?) by him. Come to think of it, the only games I can remember SE advertising were Chrono Trigger, FF7, FF13, Infinite Undiscovery, and the newest Star Ocean game. Oh, and I think Kingdom Hearts. Anyway...

XII was out for a month or two before I got it; bought the collector's edition used. Beat it, loved it, it surpassed FF4 as my favorite, and surpassed FF6 in terms of "best FF game" in my opinion. Probably has a lot to do with the fact that I was in love with the idea of XI and just hated all the annoying little crap, and FFXII was, for me, everything great about XI except the socialization, without the crap.

Preordered 13, showed up for the midnight release. bought the gae and the collector's edition strategy guide. Could not have been more bummed if SE had set my cats on fire. 0-1 hour was pretty fun. 1-2 hours in was getting boring. 2-3 hours I wanted to blow my brains out. Hours 3-5 were just forcing myself to play it because I didn't want to think that I had wasted 90 bucks on the game and book. Loaned it to a friend who confirmed what everyone else was saying; that "it gets better after the first 15 hours". 5 hours in and no interest to get back that headache that had developed behind my eyeballs, I have not played it again since he returned it.

Preordered two copies of 14, played the beta. Lots of bugs, but it's a beta, so it's gonna have bugs, so whatever. Bought two copies; for myself and my fiancee, would have been at the midnight release except that there wasn't going to be one. Drove half an hour to the nearest 24 hour Walmart which had none. Went back to GameStop after work and got the games. Played for a while until I threw away about an hour of my life in the market wards and ragelogged. I love the game, but for some reason, I just don't want to log back in. Like, I want to play, I really do, but every time my mouse hovers over the icon, something inexplicably draws it away to Recettear or Minecraft or Fallout 3 or Civ 5 or something else.

You asked about "FF and MMOs".

FFXI was my first MMO (not counting MUDs) and it is, perhaps unfairly, the standard by which I have judged every MMORPG I have played since.

I took up WoW when I was playing XI; part of the reason was because I wanted to stop being one of the tards who kept talking about how "FFXI > WoW" when they had never actually given WoW a chance. The other part was because everyone talked about how solo friendly it is, and while I didn't really want to solo per se, I wanted something else to do besides shove my thumb up my *** while LFP in XI, so I figured I could solo in WoW until I get a tell, then log of of WoW and go party in my real game.

Ended up liking WoW. Really liked it, in fact. Met a lot of friends, had a lot of fun. A attribute a lot of my enjoyment to a guild who had a strict "No one allowed in guild whose first MMORPG is WoW" policy. Whether it was EQ or UO or FFXI or whatever, either you played SOMETHINE ELSE before you played WoW, or you didn't get in. Simple as that. Kept out the beggars, kept out the noobs, kept out most of the assclowns. Pretty good group of people. Despite the fact that I never much cared for tanking in XI, I ended up falling in love with Prot Warror. I tried Mage (because I love BLM) but eventually ended up quitting WoW because BC had already made purples worthless and WotLK was looming on the horizon and threatening to do the same. Deciding that I didn't want to start over at square one again, I bid Azeroth a farewell, although I did end up returning later.

Looked around for something else to play in my FFXI downtime. Tried several other games; Allods, Shaiya; I was sick of WoW clones. Everything I played felt like WoW, looked like WoW, behaved like WoW. All the keybindings were exactly the same, the UI was laid out exactly the same, the game terminology was exactly the same.

Got into RO for a while, pretty fun. It was a new UI, a new game, new world, new art style, enjoyed the **** out of it for quite a while. Eventually it felt like there was nothing to it but grinding though, and it got kinda old.

Tried EVE for all of two days. Anyone who thinks FFXI or FFXIV is unintuitive and cumbersome needs to try EVE. That'll shut em up. EVE's learning curve isn't a curve; it's a **** vertical cliff.

Got into DDO before XIV as well; it was "un-WoW-like", which was a huge plus and it had a mostly mature group of players once you got out of Korthos. Korthos general chat on Tuesdays was terrible, due to "WoW is better but I can't play it because of maintenance, so I downloaded this game to tell you all how much better WoW is" asstards. Wasn't as bad as Allods though; Allods general chat had "WoW is better than this game" every five @#%^ing minutes in Nezebgrad.

It's not that I hate WoW; I like WoW. I just think that half of the people who play WoW are insufferable. It's kinda like religion; I like my religion, but I find that religious people, even from my own religion, tend to annoy the crap out of me. But I digress.

Anyway, as I said earlier, FFXIV is the only MMORPG I currently have installed on my system, although I haven't actually logged on in a while.

Edited, Oct 21st 2010 9:18pm by Mikhalia
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#6 Oct 21 2010 at 8:21 PM Rating: Good
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I kind of grew up with the series, as I got an NES around the time FF1 came out. My neighbor had bought it, and I watched him play it for a while until I finally got my own cartridge. I really should track that down one of these days. It's probably in storage somewhere.

I played I, II (IV), and III (VI) multiple times through, then went to college. I never owned a PS or PS2, so I only recently (like in the last few years) finished 8. I'm still working on 7, 9, 10, and 12. I played XI for a while on the PC, but I wasn't on enough to get into the multiplayer aspect of it. I got III on the DS, and finished that a few times.

At my age (<35), I guess my view of FF is that it's a cherished series for me, particularly the first three US releases (I, IV, VI). I loved being able to play as the various classes of FF1 in FFXI. I loved playing in parties with real people, and having my actions affect the outcome of the battle (this is true for all MMOs, I suppose). Unfortunately, with XI, I had lots of graphics and CPU issues. The game crashed frequently in party play (especially at the beach in the dunes). It just made the whole experience very difficult, and is probably why I stopped playing, came back later, stopped playing again, came back later, etc.

Now that I work all day on a PC, and most of my job involves reading and writing, it's hard to sit down in the evenings and have patience to read through quest texts (talking about WoW and LOTRO here), and not just skip down to the bottom to find the objectives, look for the little ring or marker on the mini-map, and blaze over to the next person to talk to. It's like eating a $200/plate dinner with your toddler squirming next to you in his/her highchair. The distractions and pressures of life make it hard to slow down and enjoy what's there.

The things I enjoyed about FFXIV in beta were the graphics, the crafting mini-game, and the levequests. Unfortunately, after playing enough games (even some Facebook games), I'm wondering if the crafting mini-game will eventually get boring just like the rest of them. It all really just boils down to mini-games. The DoW/DoM mini-game is a bit more complex, but even that just seems like button mashing, unless they fix battle regimens. I played hot-cold games in elementary school.

Maybe motion control really is the future. DoL classes could be kinda cool if you actually had to swing your hatchet up, down, or level to get the log. Of course, that would probably get old (and tiring) pretty fast, as well. It might slow down the RMT, though. I can just imagine gil farms with kids fighting over who has to be the DoL for the day.

Just some random thoughts from an aging (not old) gamer.
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#7 Oct 21 2010 at 9:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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Comments on your random thoughts:

BrickLayer wrote:
Now that I work all day on a PC, and most of my job involves reading and writing, it's hard to sit down in the evenings and have patience to read through quest texts (talking about WoW and LOTRO here), and not just skip down to the bottom to find the objectives, look for the little ring or marker on the mini-map, and blaze over to the next person to talk to. It's like eating a $200/plate dinner with your toddler squirming next to you in his/her highchair. The distractions and pressures of life make it hard to slow down and enjoy what's there.


I totally agree with the latter part of that. My job (Network Admin) keeps me so busy that by the time I get home, I just experience a collective feeling of "What do I want to do?"/"I don't really want to do anything". Fortunately, I don't really have a job where I have to "take my work home with me" so to speak, but I still agree that no matter what I do in my time at home, all I can think about is "I gotta get to work again tomorrow". I agree that it does distract you from being able to truly enjoy the games you play when you can't really take the time to ENJOY them. I still insist that I can't stand the people who are so impatient that they always want to beat the game but can't be ***** to play it, but I am gradually seeing myself become that, and I'm not pleased at all with myself.

BrickLayer wrote:
The things I enjoyed about FFXIV in beta were the graphics, the crafting mini-game, and the levequests. Unfortunately, after playing enough games (even some Facebook games), I'm wondering if the crafting mini-game will eventually get boring just like the rest of them. It all really just boils down to mini-games. The DoW/DoM mini-game is a bit more complex, but even that just seems like button mashing, unless they fix battle regimens. I played hot-cold games in elementary school.

Maybe motion control really is the future. DoL classes could be kinda cool if you actually had to swing your hatchet up, down, or level to get the log. Of course, that would probably get old (and tiring) pretty fast, as well. It might slow down the RMT, though. I can just imagine gil farms with kids fighting over who has to be the DoL for the day.

Just some random thoughts from an aging (not old) gamer.


Unfortunately, that's true of everything for the reasons I said above. Motion controls and minigames are great and shiny and innovative and fun for the first 40-50 hours or so, but in a game that is already a grind like all MMORPGs are, eventually you'll see players become frustrated with the minigames. Just as people get sick of how much XP tnl they have at later levels on their third and fourth jobs, I suspect that about 8-12 months from now, you're going to start seeing DoH who are sick of the minigame and "just want to level up".

Perhaps it's just human nature that we always inherently want to take the easiest road, the quickest path to get us where we want to go. We take the freeways instead of back roads, where 55 MPH zones almost always imply that doing anything under 65 will have someone behind you on your ***. We want faster computers with slower load times, faster internet connections where everything is downloaded instantly. We get movies on demand because we can't be bothered to go to the movie store, we get TV shows too, because we can't be bothered to watch them when they're actually on TV. We get our pizza delivered because we don't want to leave the house and we even have microwave dinners because we're too hungry and too busy to make our food on the stove or in the oven.

And I don't count myself exempt from any of this at all; I'm neither placing myself on a pedestal above the "unwashed, impatient masses", nor am I saying that I resolve to improve any aspect of what I just mentioned. I'm human like we all are. While I can't stand impatient people, I won't deny that at times I'm one of them.

Perhaps that's our big problem. Ever notice how people seemed to be happier in the past? Nowadays it seems like everyone is "depressed", no one really enjoys life anymore; people just look at how bleak everything is and how they feel like there is no purpose to their life, no reason to get up in the morning.

Sometimes you want to beat a game so badly that you cheat your way to the end and what you're left with, is a feeling that you've been ripped off. Sure, you "beat it", but the fact that you didn't really have to work for it makes it feel like less of an accomplishment.

Perhaps if we cheated less at life, we would enjoy life more, instead of living our lives in a constant need to "beat" every task before us as fast as possible, for no purpose other than to move on to the next task, all so that we can feel like we're accomplishing things when in reality, all we're truly accomplishing is just a bunch of "stuff".

Of course, the poetic irony in the point I guess I'm trying to make here is that at least one person will completely disregard the entire post because they can't be bothered to take their time reading it; something thoughtful and insightful that I put my own time and effort into writing will be deemed "not worth the time" of others who feel their time is so much more important. TL;DR indeed.

Now don't take that as a complaint, either. I'm not saying that I'm some awesome guy and that every word I type should become the gospel for the masses. I'm really just musing and rambling here. I'm merely pointing out how in games, as in life, it seems like we always want to get to the end so quickly that not only do we not stop to enjoy the road that leads us there, but we come to resent the road as nothing more than a hindrance to a goal.

Smiley: twocents
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#8 Oct 21 2010 at 9:42 PM Rating: Decent
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Nice post Mik. I wish you would log in to FFXIV. Your presence is missed. Almost anything you might want to buy can probably be made by an LS mate at this point (at least at your rank) so you don't even have to go in the wards.

:P
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#9 Oct 21 2010 at 9:44 PM Rating: Good
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Olorinus the Vile wrote:
Nice post Mik. I wish you would log in to FFXIV. Your presence is missed. Almost anything you might want to buy can probably be made by an LS mate at this point (at least at your rank) so you don't even have to go in the wards.

:P


I've made my mind up to get on tomorrow after work. I promise.
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#10 Oct 21 2010 at 10:38 PM Rating: Good
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I'm 28 too and started with I, II, III (U.S.) along with the gameboy ones and really the romance of FF ended with VII. The later years, and later FFs I played and enjoyed, but I don't think I ever beat VIII or IX. Tactics was one of my favorites as well, but to be honest I played a lot more Suikoden I, II and Xenogears at that time.

There was another thread about this too but I don't know if it was adolescence, having WAY too much time on my hands, the desire to be different or a whole combination of everything, but I loved the FF games from 94' to 99' the most. On the whole, I've come to the conclusion that the Final Fantasy series for me is pretty overrated. A few gems, but a lot of average, above average games.

I of course played the earlier unreleased FFs on emulators and the later ones X, XI, XII and XIII. X was good, but of course too linear, XI (I'll get to later), XII I didn't play because I sold my Playstation 2 later played on emulator. (Despite it's story being convoluted and not typical FF, I thought the dialog was very well written and the game itself pretty fun; my favorite of the 'current' generation of FF.) XIII, well, let's just file this under SE's 'inept period.' Let's start with the good: Graphics and UI awesome. Fighting system, OK for about an hour. Everything else: crap. I had just finished playing Mass Effect 2 and playing XIII made me feel like I was 12 again, but in a bad way. The inane dialog, horrible voices, linear gameplay (don't even try to argue, "Well every FF is linear, its an illusion n00b." I know I like illusion; immersion that's why I play Final Fantasy games, this had none of that.) It felt like a postmodern campy slog that couldn't be a real FF game because of 'limitations.'

Phew, anyway as far as MMOs I started with Ragnarök Online, FFXI (when I had some free time in college), WoW, back to FFXI, back to WoW, then I whored myself out looking for anything that I could grasp on to. Guild Wars, Warhammer, back to WoW, back to FFXI and now FFXIV.

FFXI was great fun when I had time. The job missions, the AF hunting, soloing was a real challenge, sneaking to get to coffers all of that stuff is accentuated because I had the time. Now I don't have so much. Even back then when CoP was out I already couldn't manage my time. Our LS tried to do one of the Promyvions and we gathered like 30 people, but couldn't pull it off; I've never finished CoP.

When I went back to FFXI for the umpteenth time FoV was going on Dragoon was the best soloer and so I got my DRG to 65? and eventually quit for good. Groups were too hard to find and even when I was in a group it took, what it seemed like days to get a level.

In any case I had way more fun in FFXI than any MMO I've ever played, and I think in large part because I was on the game's schedule and not the other way around.

Now that I look back on it, there's a theme here (and it may be very obvious): RPGs, more specifically MMO's require an investment to be enjoyed fully. Regardless of your age, who makes the game or whatever, if you have the time, more often than not you'll enjoy the game a lot more than someone who doesn't. When you don't have the time, you're less forgiving about the mistakes. You'll power through certain parts, whereas if you didn't have the time you'd just give up or shelve the game for some other time. That's why games saying that they're casual really have to deliver because they are fighting two fronts. Either you alienate the hardcore player (essentially every RPGer) or you don't provide enough depth for the casual player.

Among it's many problems (UI, AH, whatever), I think this is FFXIV's main problem. Can FFXIV provide a lasting experience through guild leves and whatever eventual content they come up with?

[ramble]

In the end even though I am (or was) a FF fanboy, and even though we ARE the demographic of most gamers, I don't think developers or especially SE has us in mind. Meaning the era of a small-ish developer like Square creating passionate games is long gone (or was this my nostalgic perception of them.) They are and have been for a while beholden to corporate interests, and as commie or whatever that sounds like, I think the romance is pretty much over. [/ramble]
#11 Oct 21 2010 at 10:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm 34 and do have a certain loyalty to SE and the FF series that probably made it easier for me to overlook many of the faults that others find so crippling in this incarnation of the series.

In general, video games have changed since I started playing. I started with a Atari 2600 when I was about 4 or 5, had an NES and Sega Master system into my early teens before grabbing the Megadrive (Genesis) and Supernintendo in my mid teens then N64 and the various playstations through University years.

In the last 25 years of gaming, the average age of gamers has increased significantly. In my mid teens, I was the average age gamer. Gamers were 99% male teenagers. THose of us that played games like FF were often closet RPG fans meeting in darkened rooms with umpteen dice to play D&D.

I grew up with video game RPG's though I avoided the whole MMO thing until FFXI which I started playing pretty much at launch. I then moved on to WoW, then Aion and have now come full circle back to FFXIV.

I guess one of the things that comes of being one of the older players of these games is that I am comfortable working things out. In the olden days - games did not come with all of the tutorial modes that exist in todays modern titles. As a result, there was often absolute frustration as you had to try to work out what you were supposed to do. FFXIV kind of harps back to those days by just dropping you into the game and saying "there you go - now play". Some of the guys I have spoken to who HATED FFXIV on launch day seem to be warming to it as they settle in, I didnt really need that settling in period.

Also, older RPG's were very menu driven with lots of stats etc. Because of this, I really like certain elements of the UI in FFXIV which has an older feel to it. I understand that for many of the younger generation this is a very frustrating feature because they want to be able to do everything quickly and get on with the game. FOr some of us - playing with the stats, menus etc is actually part of the gaming experience. One of the reasons I quit WoW was that the stats behind the game started to become so basic that much of the fun was lost to me.

My age and gaming experience has certainly affected my enjoyment of FFXIV. I fear that this may well be the last MMO that suits me as developers will have to start to pander to the more energetic fast paced requirements of todays younger gamers raised on Halo, Grand Theft Auto etc. No bad thing U suppose. Some day everyone has to hang up their game pad and grow up!
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#12 Oct 21 2010 at 10:53 PM Rating: Good
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It's good to see others expressing some deep thoughts. Most who posted have a pretty extensive background with the Final Fantasy series, even greater than my own. I never got into RPGs from the 8/16 bit era. I don't have the time to go back and explore those games anymore and I'm afraid I might be disappointed anyway...

That being said, I still wonder how many younger gamers will be attracted to this game. The slower pace the game adopts stands in stark contrast to most console games today. From what I can tell a huge percentage of young males who are playing games online are busy killing each other in first person shooters. I know Counter Strike was thriving back when MMOs were emerging but now there are literally hundreds or thousands of console games you can buy, play online for an hour, and forget about until next time.

I just don't see MMOs matching that format. These games appeal to those who want to invest a lot of time, on a regular basis, into their character(s) and a long, deep story. I wonder how a generation of kids who grow up with iPhones and iPods full of games and apps will affect MMORPGs.

I'm still interested in hearing from younger gamers, if there are any on these boards, about what attracted them to this game.

P.S. Cheers! and thanks for the thoughtful responses.

Edited, Oct 22nd 2010 1:00am by CatPredator
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#13 Oct 21 2010 at 11:13 PM Rating: Decent
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Age 31. Grew up playing all the FF games from Nintendo onwards. Managed to get some of the FF ROMs that were translated to English. Love the series. (And all you people out there who think FF7 was the best in the series are nuts. Great game, but FF6 was the best of the series.)

I'm not touching FFXIV with a ten-foot pole. I've had it with SE. The only customers that get treated worse are meth addicts who are willing to do just about anything for a fix.

If SE changes how they treat the people that keep them in business, I'll reconsider. But not until then.
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WoW -- Zaia -- Dragonmaw -- Mage 80 BABY! Alchemy 450
Also... Hunter 62, Rogue 52, Warrior 66, Warlock 43, Death Knight 70, Shaman Who Cares? ;)

FFXI -- Caia -- Retired/Deleted -- Blm 75, Alchemy 97
Pandimonium server - Rank 10 - Bastok

Zaela Rdm -- 35, Alchemy 45 -- Forced into retirement because I didn't have the right kind of credit card. Hope it was worth 18 bucks a month, SE.

#14 Oct 21 2010 at 11:22 PM Rating: Decent
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451 posts
Caia wrote:
Age 31. Grew up playing all the FF games from Nintendo onwards. Managed to get some of the FF ROMs that were translated to English. Love the series. (And all you people out there who think FF7 was the best in the series are nuts. Great game, but FF6 was the best of the series.)

I'm not touching FFXIV with a ten-foot pole. I've had it with SE. The only customers that get treated worse are meth addicts who are willing to do just about anything for a fix.

If SE changes how they treat the people that keep them in business, I'll reconsider. But not until then.


I didn't start with FF, I played Chrono Trigger and liked it so that lead me into FF.

But ya FF6 was kind of the masterpiece of the series. I can understand people that like 7 better though. I though 8 was sort of under-rated, It was more about scale. Didn't like 9. FFX was good for what it was, the next gen gfx of the day. FFXI was my fav MMO, and after that its just bleh.

FFXII was ok story wise, but meh. FXIII and FFXIV are the worst of the series.

Edited, Oct 22nd 2010 1:23am by KristoFurwalken
#15 Oct 22 2010 at 12:34 AM Rating: Decent
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42 posts
Kierk wrote:
Now that I look back on it, there's a theme here (and it may be very obvious): RPGs, more specifically MMO's require an investment to be enjoyed fully. Regardless of your age, who makes the game or whatever, if you have the time, more often than not you'll enjoy the game a lot more than someone who doesn't. When you don't have the time, you're less forgiving about the mistakes. You'll power through certain parts, whereas if you didn't have the time you'd just give up or shelve the game for some other time. That's why games saying that they're casual really have to deliver because they are fighting two fronts. Either you alienate the hardcore player (essentially every RPGer) or you don't provide enough depth for the casual player.

Among it's many problems (UI, AH, whatever), I think this is FFXIV's main problem. Can FFXIV provide a lasting experience through guild leves and whatever eventual content they come up with?
[/ramble]



I was talking about this topic with a co-worker over lunch (thanks ZAM for providing an interesting conversation starter). He plays Diablo II kind of the way I used to play FF1. After playing through so many times, the game starts to be about getting through with all of your characters having the exact same amount of experience, or trying out a wacky party of all BLMs, etc.

I thought about how, if all we're really playing is mini-games, the appeal will wear off fast. Maybe that's why games like GT5 are appealing. You can just hop on, race a few tracks, and you're still hard-pressed to beat your record time. There's no story, but the replay value is high, and the time investment is low. What does an RPG have that GT5 doesn't?

I like the idea you brought up of MMOs "fighting two fronts," or as we concluded over lunch, the MMO has a valley between casual and hardcore. I think the level sync feature in FFXI was an attempt to fill up the valley a bit. WoW and LOTRO both have massive amounts of side quests, which give the solo player something to do to progress their character and the story when not partying. Maybe the FFXIV levequest star rating will serve the same function?

I pre-ordered SE, but I'm waiting for my parents to bring it over to Asia next month. I'm hoping that crafting will be "casual" and entertaining, but I'm not sure. On my schedule, the guildleve reset thing won't be too big of a problem. I'll probably only get on every few days anyway. Still, maybe it would be more fun to invest $13/month in art lessons or something. I guess I'm getting to the point where I'm wondering what the allure is?

Edited, Oct 22nd 2010 6:34am by BrickLayer
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#16 Oct 22 2010 at 12:45 AM Rating: Decent
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42 posts
CatPredator wrote:
I just don't see MMOs matching that format. These games appeal to those who want to invest a lot of time, on a regular basis, into their character(s) and a long, deep story. I wonder how a generation of kids who grow up with iPhones and iPods full of games and apps will affect MMORPGs.


I'm not young, but I would love to see SE put out some Official FFXIV Android/iPhone/Web apps, particularly a bazaar manager app, and maybe a trading/bartering app as well.
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#17 Oct 22 2010 at 12:53 AM Rating: Good
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9,526 posts
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Olorinus the Vile wrote:
Nice post Mik. I wish you would log in to FFXIV. Your presence is missed. Almost anything you might want to buy can probably be made by an LS mate at this point (at least at your rank) so you don't even have to go in the wards.

:P


I've made my mind up to get on tomorrow after work. I promise.


I'm glad to hear it but worried I will miss you. I've got other plans but I hope the aggravation is minimal so I get to see you on Sunday night or something.
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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#18 Oct 22 2010 at 1:07 AM Rating: Good
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9,526 posts
HallieXIV wrote:
I'm 34 and do have a certain loyalty to SE and the FF series that probably made it easier for me to overlook many of the faults that others find so crippling in this incarnation of the series.

In general, video games have changed since I started playing. I started with a Atari 2600 when I was about 4 or 5, had an NES and Sega Master system into my early teens before grabbing the Megadrive (Genesis) and Supernintendo in my mid teens then N64 and the various playstations through University years.

In the last 25 years of gaming, the average age of gamers has increased significantly. In my mid teens, I was the average age gamer. Gamers were 99% male teenagers. THose of us that played games like FF were often closet RPG fans meeting in darkened rooms with umpteen dice to play D&D.

I grew up with video game RPG's though I avoided the whole MMO thing until FFXI which I started playing pretty much at launch. I then moved on to WoW, then Aion and have now come full circle back to FFXIV.

I guess one of the things that comes of being one of the older players of these games is that I am comfortable working things out. In the olden days - games did not come with all of the tutorial modes that exist in todays modern titles. As a result, there was often absolute frustration as you had to try to work out what you were supposed to do. FFXIV kind of harps back to those days by just dropping you into the game and saying "there you go - now play". Some of the guys I have spoken to who HATED FFXIV on launch day seem to be warming to it as they settle in, I didnt really need that settling in period.

Also, older RPG's were very menu driven with lots of stats etc. Because of this, I really like certain elements of the UI in FFXIV which has an older feel to it. I understand that for many of the younger generation this is a very frustrating feature because they want to be able to do everything quickly and get on with the game. FOr some of us - playing with the stats, menus etc is actually part of the gaming experience. One of the reasons I quit WoW was that the stats behind the game started to become so basic that much of the fun was lost to me.

My age and gaming experience has certainly affected my enjoyment of FFXIV. I fear that this may well be the last MMO that suits me as developers will have to start to pander to the more energetic fast paced requirements of todays younger gamers raised on Halo, Grand Theft Auto etc. No bad thing U suppose. Some day everyone has to hang up their game pad and grow up!


I feel this - I've been playing FFXIV a lot more than I figured I would, but in the end the real world is really tugging at me to keep my focus. When I was younger I never felt the need to justify the way I spent my time in the same way I do now.

I have a love hate relationship with the game as it stands now... when I let go and stop trying to race to the finish the game actually feels fun to me... when I get too goal oriented it becomes a horrible grind... so attitude does matter... but I find being 28 and having a lot of stuff other than gaming to do I feel like asking for things to be simple is less about wanting "everything now with zero effort" and more about wanting to decide how I spend my time...

I actually like exploring and running around but there is actually a negative incentive to do that at the moment because anima is such a slowly regenerating resource. There is no reason to make anima regen slowly except to either waste my time by making me do pointless runs to do the things I want to do or leave me feeling like I can't do what I want to do because I can't afford to waste the time/anima.

I not a WoW kid... I played it a bit but since I played FFXI first I could never get over the fact I couldn't change jobs on one character. The job system from FFXI has made me an addict of this feature.

To be honest if FFXI took crysta I would deeply consider going back to it - I honestly liked the game that much. A lot of what makes me willing to tolerate FFXIV is the idea that it will get better and I won't be so overwhelmed with existing content that I feel like I won't get to experience most things (especially since they require so much grouping in FFXI). I don't have a credit card so the payment options for FFXIV (which I know a lot of people hate) are actually a big reason why I stick with the game.
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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#19 Oct 22 2010 at 1:33 AM Rating: Good
Very interesting.

I'm 20 now, and about to turn 21 in two months. My first MMO experience came out of playing Warcraft 3 in internet cafes and seeing friends play the open beta for Oceania Ragnarok Online (ORO.) about 4 years ago. Played the beta a little bit, then stopped, and didn't come back to until a year later, played some private servers, was on one for a good 9 months. Moved on after the private server died, didn't really pick up another MMO until Steam recently had a sale for EVE Online, which is now my secondary MMO game. I jumped onto FFXIV when an EVE Online blogger actually posted his experiences of trying to get the game to run on his one year old computer (apparently he only got 25 FPS MAX.)

As one of the younger generation, I kind of actually grew up with Square/SquareEnix games, or even just Enix - first I played and loved both Secret of Mana and Chrono Trigger on the SNES when I had one with a game copier disc attachment; started and have never completed FFVI a few times(though I should;) completed VIII before VII, then skipped over to FFXII, which I originally played on a new, modded, PS2 Slim, only to finish the actual game on PC with an emulator > > Throughout those times, I also played Front Mission, Alternative, 3, 4, and 5: Scars of War, as well as the loved Valkyrie Profile and its sequel Silmeria.

As a RO player, I quickly became used to the major and inevitable grind that some MMOs have, but I stuck with it, as with EVE and it's learning curve, and with FFXIV now, due to the community both in-game and out-of-game forums. I have never played WoW for some reason or other, possibly because my computer at the time of its release couldn't support it.

Edited, Oct 22nd 2010 3:33am by GuiltyBoomerang
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Estur Leone - Gysahl

#20 Oct 22 2010 at 1:40 AM Rating: Good
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49 posts
Im 22 in partnership with my dad in his business (not a computer type person like alot of you, im a ceramic tiler and plasterer..) i also have the trouble of coming home after a very busy physically and mentally hard day and all i want to do is sit down with my girlfriend next to me while she does her work (shes a teacher) and play my games.. but knowing that the next dya i have to wake up, go to work and do it all again...anywyas... my first FF was, like alot of people, 7, my uncle brought me it when i got my PS1.. I didnt understand it at all, i remember just playing through it and completing it and then that was it... For some reason he let me keep it though, a short time later, i oddly put it back in my playstation, which back then was odd for me, as i had a typical young "well i completed it so why play it again" attitude... but i did, and i REALLY got into it (since then ive completed 7 100% countless times). i then moved onto 8.. from 8 to 9 and then started getting the older final fantasys and ive been a completed "FF fan boy" (i dont care) since then..

i did read someone say "because im older maybe i dont the old type of game where you dont get a tutorial" or something to that effect... like i said im only 22 but i prefer to work games .. or anything for that matter (its part of my job, theres no instructions in what i do) out myself, games that hand you everything on a plate bore me so much, i dont want to know that "at the next corner there will be an armoured bloke, you will need to use your Power Attack to kill him".. surly it takes the fun out of the game.. and thats one of the MANY reasons i love FF's, until 13, which i literally sit there pressing X..

the storys are very good, always dragging me in, even now 7 still makes me go "oh !%&* .. **** you Sephiroth", there almost like a good movie to me.
the game play keeps you thinking, up until a certain point where you get so strong from grinding the game becomes easy (in which case your just playing for the story) you have to plan, and figure out weaknes etc. even 12s game play (which got alot of hate, i personally REALLY enjoy it (more than 10)) is good, 13s tho (my opinion)

and then i come to the MMO FF's, i played Legend of Mir for a short time, then Myth of Soma for a long time, then nothing until 11 came out, i didnt know 11 was an MMO (i didnt REALLY know what an mmo was even tho i had played 2), i didnt see any announcments for it, any footage, i didnt even know 11 was coming out, i came home from school one day and my mam had bought me it, i played that game till my eyes bled.. but as i grew up a bit i started to see its flaws, not with the game, but with the people i was playing with.. it started to grate on me and eventually i had exhausted myself of 11, i had done everything i had set out to do (solo multiple jobs, get certain gears etc.) and i just got sick of the same old arguing, waiting for pts (after i had solod 5 jobs to 75 i really had no more solo in me) i was not used to having to stand around not doing anything until i got a pt only for the reply to my "oh! Yes please! what will my role be so i know what gear to bring?"..to be "{I'm Sorry} JP ONLY" so i quit!
i then discovered Lord Of The Rings, the movies not the game, i was engrossed in everythign LOTR, i bought the books (tho im not a good reader/writer) and struggled through them, i then bought the game and loved that, not neccissarly the game (which is good but a bit repetitive and easy) but the community, everyone was always willing to help, i even met some now VERY good friends who have helped me through alot in life and i have more respect for this couple than i have for friends at home, tho ive never met them i do plan to.
when i heard about 14 i was very excited, and pre-ordered it as soon as i could, the community seems to be like LOTRO at the moment, people are friendly, everyone is figuring things out together, people dont mind asking what this does or how to do this or can i get help with that... yea the game has many flaws but i can over look them, maybe its because i am a "fan boy", or maybe.. its because i am enjoying the game, and the friends im making more than those problems are bothering me..

so to your question about how different ages view FF, im not your 35 year old MMO player, im a (i guess..) young 22 year old, wich a succesful business ready built for me worked since i was 14 instead of going to school ,i have an amazing girlfriend i live with and plan to for a very long time, and i belive that as you age, well no.. as you MATURE your view on FF, all the series not just 14, changes with you, you begin to understand it more and respect its story, its characters and to some extent, its flaws.....so what im saying is even if your not a computer tech type person, even if your not a 35+ year old with a family, its not age its maturity

all it takes is for you to read the people who bash everything they can about 14 to relise its maturity that counts lol

sorry if that was broing to read or long winded or off topic, like i say im not good at reading/writing (cant tell the time either lol) but thats my view on the topic title


Edited, Oct 22nd 2010 3:41am by RaidonFF14

Edited, Oct 22nd 2010 3:41am by RaidonFF14
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