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Sanctioned "cheating"Follow

#1 Oct 21 2010 at 9:22 PM Rating: Good
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You're playing the MMORPG of your choice, let's say FFXIV but if you want to insert any other game, that's fine too. Assume for a moment that the game in question is PvE only and never has and never will have any PvP or RvR content, because it would skew the results. PvE only.

One day, the game's developer/manufacturer adds to the game the functionality that now, any player, any time, anywhere, can do the following:

- Give yourself any item
- Give yourself any amount of money
- Raise your level at will

Assume also that this is being intentionally added and that there is a 0% chance of you getting banned, warned, or suspended in any way for using any of these features, as little or as often as you like.

What would you do? Would you max your level and money and give yourself the best gear? Just give yourself a little bit of spending cash? Maybe only "cheat" to level up the classes/jobs you hate? Maybe only a couple items here or there? Would you leave it all alone, even if everyone else was doing it? Would you just quit the game altogether?

(This was going to be a poll, but to cover every possible choice would have been like 10+ options which is ridiculous)

Edited, Oct 21st 2010 11:23pm by Mikhalia
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#2 Oct 21 2010 at 9:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'd do two chicks at the same time.
#3 Oct 21 2010 at 9:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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I would probably quit because what would be the point of that...it isn't a game anymore at that point. I might max myself out and then go and wreak havoc on the environment... but it would get boring pretty instantly.
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#4 Oct 21 2010 at 9:27 PM Rating: Good
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I'd probably mess around with everything in the game for a while before quitting. No much point in sticking around after that.
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#5 Oct 21 2010 at 9:27 PM Rating: Good
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I find I only use cheats if I'm losing interest in gameplay but want to see the rest of the story. I wouldn't really see myself doing that in an MMO I was actually enjoying playing.


However, back in BWL wow days, I'd definately have used that to get my 8th transcendence piece.
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#6 Oct 21 2010 at 9:30 PM Rating: Decent
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Id quit, it would be pointless without atleast a small level of accomplishment.
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#7 Oct 21 2010 at 9:43 PM Rating: Good
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With FFXIV, I would give myself 50 in the crafting & gathering classes, because those are very boring to grind.

That's it.

I'd make my own gil, I'd level the DoW/DoM classes on my own, and I'd gather & make my own items. That would remove the more tedious and repetitive aspect of it for me, so I'd be free to have fun doing what I enjoy.

It would essentially be like Final Fantasy crossed with Monster Hunter.
#8 Oct 21 2010 at 9:56 PM Rating: Decent
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More than likely i'd play around for a bit, then lose interest and quit.

without something to accomplish, without any sense of achievement it kind of ceases being a game, and more a digital dress up doll.

In fact I kind of wish they'd repeal the "any class can wear anything at any level" jazz they have going on... It seems to be a disservice. There's no sense of "I made it, now I can equip this." Now it's just... yay... another rank... slightly more defense and this sword 30 ranks higher than I am sucks slightly less!

Anticipation is a powerful force... Pretty sure its all that is keeping most of us from quitting. "I'll wait and see how it is after the next update... in November... in December... after the ps3 launch..."

I'm guilty of it, too... But it would be nice to anticipate more in this game than it being fixed...
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#9 Oct 21 2010 at 10:06 PM Rating: Default
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Would this mean no more RMT?
#10 Oct 21 2010 at 10:24 PM Rating: Decent
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I think it's about the sense of progress and balance.

If you give players everything they wanted in a game, it lacks a sense of progress. There would be no purpose to doing something for a reward because you can instantly have that reward without doing something. It wouldn't be fun to play.

If you don't give players enough, it also lacks a sense of progress. You could run around and kill things for 10 levels straight, but if you're killing the same target over and over, you don't feel your character evolving. If no equipment drops or is rewarded, or happens very minimally, you don't feel your character changing and growing. There is no sense of progress, no sense of achievement.

I think it's about balance. Maybe there should be a mix and match and requirements. If an item is lvl 10, you must be at least lvl 10 to wear it. Some things should be made very easy and some things should be made very hard. Higher lvl or more valuable items require more materials, etc, or something. Balance--find that sweet spot that rewards players and instills a sense of progress yet is challenging.

#11 Oct 21 2010 at 10:29 PM Rating: Good
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on the other hand, if you take away the rewards system, you find out how "fun" the gameplay actually is.
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#12 Oct 21 2010 at 10:40 PM Rating: Decent
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I think most of the QQ threads on these boards are asking for a somewhat watered down version of this anyway aren't they?

Seriously, I'd quit. Whats the point in playing a game that has no sense of achievement. MMO's are designed to be time sinks, take the time away and what are you left with? A sink. No-one likes playing in the sink!
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#13 Oct 21 2010 at 10:45 PM Rating: Good
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KujaKoF wrote:
on the other hand, if you take away the rewards system, you find out how "fun" the gameplay actually is.


The problem there is that in a good game the gameplay has to be deep enough to be engaging... which is why they pace the abilities over time in most mmos... you gradually add tools to your repertoire so you never get overburden and you can familiarize yourself with everything a little at a time.

If you just jumped in at the level cap you'd be lost, you'd be trying to learn everything at once, the game wouldn't be that enjoyable, others who learned their characters fully wouldn't enjoy playing with you... its the "bought" character effect.

even were that not the case... once you figured out the gameplay and were learning to enjoy it... without something to work for it would be an empty experience. You learn your role, then you start trying to improve your ability to play that role through new gear, or new abilities or whatever, then you can look at your character and its a map of your achievements... I achieved this level... I earned this gear, my ability to play my role, my effort, is stamped on my character.

If you can get everything with a click of a button, there's very little driving you to keep playing.
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#14 Oct 21 2010 at 11:15 PM Rating: Decent
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Well, if there was any type of end-game yet you might as well just max level and buy a little gear. I allways look at leveling as the junk you have to get through to actually start the game. Considering in FFXI, and the other MMO I've played for that matter, after I have one job leveled I just have money and most of the best gear for the rest of my classes/characters. So it wouldn't be a big difference to just give yourself a bunch of money and some gear and just leveled.. *shrug*
#15 Oct 21 2010 at 11:33 PM Rating: Good
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KristoFurwalken wrote:
Well, if there was any type of end-game yet you might as well just max level and buy a little gear. I allways look at leveling as the junk you have to get through to actually start the game. Considering in FFXI, and the other MMO I've played for that matter, after I have one job leveled I just have money and most of the best gear for the rest of my classes/characters. So it wouldn't be a big difference to just give yourself a bunch of money and some gear and just leveled.. *shrug*


The problem there is that money would be worthless. So would the gear really... The whole point of the endgame events in ffxi, or any mmo really, is to get gear... if anyone could have byakko's haidate at the click of a button, very few people would bother actually fighting Byakko.

I really enjoyed the gameplay in ffxi, but no matter how good the gameplay... if there isnt a tangible reward for it, you wouldn't keep coming back to do it.

No one would farm sky to kill Kirin repeatedly if everyone had Crimson Cuisses and Osodes already. No one would sell gear for money if anyone could have as much money as they wanted, it would have no value. Like in diablo 2. Money was so retardedly easy to get (and to lose) that it was largely worthless. the currency in the community was rare and unique items, runes and to a lesser extent gems. But if everyone could just have whatever item they wanted, there would be no currency, there would be no trading for gear, there would be no reason to learn how to kill Ultima, or Salvage bosses or anything... yeah you might play around a bit, exalt in your awesomeness, then you'd get bored and stop playing. especially if you also had to keep paying to play.

I quit playing lotro shortly after they changed how single use recipe items worked. Before the change my level 50(the cap at the time) burglar had a few hq pieces made from single use recipes and some decent dropped loot. after the change my level 48 gladiator was decked out in full mirrored plate mail in less than a week.

Yeah its fun to play around with high level stuff or super rare gear... but if you can get it all without any effort you wouldn't keep paying to play around with it.
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#16 Oct 22 2010 at 12:46 AM Rating: Decent
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F3rth wrote:
KristoFurwalken wrote:
Well, if there was any type of end-game yet you might as well just max level and buy a little gear. I allways look at leveling as the junk you have to get through to actually start the game. Considering in FFXI, and the other MMO I've played for that matter, after I have one job leveled I just have money and most of the best gear for the rest of my classes/characters. So it wouldn't be a big difference to just give yourself a bunch of money and some gear and just leveled.. *shrug*


The problem there is that money would be worthless. So would the gear really... The whole point of the endgame events in ffxi, or any mmo really, is to get gear... if anyone could have byakko's haidate at the click of a button, very few people would bother actually fighting Byakko.

I really enjoyed the gameplay in ffxi, but no matter how good the gameplay... if there isnt a tangible reward for it, you wouldn't keep coming back to do it.

No one would farm sky to kill Kirin repeatedly if everyone had Crimson Cuisses and Osodes already.



Meh, I agree but kinda my point was like, My first 2 jobs I leveled were RDM and SAM. After that I had everything so leveling my RNG, NIN, WAR was basically like I had just given myself everything at the click of a button.
#17 Oct 22 2010 at 12:47 AM Rating: Good
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I would quit. Even if only a portion of the playerbase was doing it, it will ruin the game. As much as it would be nice to get a pass of sorts for only the things that frustrate me, I would quickly grow bored and leave. I've had personal experience.

I used to play Phantasy Star Universe (PC version) and the game itself wasn't hard but crafting was... well it wasn't fun. Anything that sold decently was too hard to get the recipe or the ingredients and I'm not just whining. The neatest stuff had drops that were ridiculously rare. I do a fair bit of grinding but even I was going out of my mind. Then hackers managed to figure out how to do their hacking even with SEGA's horrid anti hacking program in place. It didn't seem so bad at first, there were enough people playing that didn't hack or didn't know how etc. Eventually though, hacked money and items poured in and spread throughout the market. I didn't personally hack but I did benefit from some who did. All my crafting aggravation went away, I could produce neat armor and gorgeous room decorations because the cost didn't matter anymore. After a few days though, there didn't seem to be any point to playing. Why grind the limited content and zones? You can only run the same place so many times a day without going insane and things came so easily there was no point to going out there.

Despite all my frustrations, I loved PSU before the cheating. I'm not trying to sound holier than thou or anything but for myself, I don't (knowingly) cheat anymore, even when it's sanctioned. The things that irritate me about this game, even the ones I curse at, I don't complain too much. Things will eventually work out or I'll learn to deal with and work around the frustrations. I don't want it to happen here as I haven't enjoyed crafting (despite the system's flaws) this much in an MMO in a very long time and I don't want to walk away yet but I do think people should have at least one chance to get everything they ask for/complain about. For a lot of people that cures the desire to "Cheat" :P
#18 Oct 22 2010 at 12:50 AM Rating: Decent
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this is how the Lich King beta for WoW was, maxed you out with good pvp gear and like 10k gold to spend. It was fun for awhile but got boring fast.
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#19 Oct 22 2010 at 1:27 AM Rating: Decent
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OnyxFFXI wrote:
I'd do two chicks at the same time.


I'd create 3 more of me, and Pork-roast two chicks, simultaneously.
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#20 Oct 22 2010 at 1:41 AM Rating: Good
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I can understand where you are coming from too, That was one of the nice things about ffxi, the overlap in alot of the gear, so the more jobs you had the more gear you had that overlapped to other jobs. But then at that point it became an achievement to level the other jobs your gear worked with.

But being able to use all that stuff on new jobs was still an achievement, because you initially earned those items, then you subsequently earned the new jobs to wear them.

Yeah it was easier the second or third time around, but that was also an aspect of the skill you gained in those first jobs.

They didn't lessen your achievement, they only added to it.
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#21 Oct 22 2010 at 1:51 PM Rating: Good
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LadyMarisa wrote:
I would quit. Even if only a portion of the playerbase was doing it, it will ruin the game. As much as it would be nice to get a pass of sorts for only the things that frustrate me, I would quickly grow bored and leave. I've had personal experience.

I used to play Phantasy Star Universe (PC version) and the game itself wasn't hard but crafting was... well it wasn't fun. Anything that sold decently was too hard to get the recipe or the ingredients and I'm not just whining. The neatest stuff had drops that were ridiculously rare. I do a fair bit of grinding but even I was going out of my mind. Then hackers managed to figure out how to do their hacking even with SEGA's horrid anti hacking program in place. It didn't seem so bad at first, there were enough people playing that didn't hack or didn't know how etc. Eventually though, hacked money and items poured in and spread throughout the market. I didn't personally hack but I did benefit from some who did. All my crafting aggravation went away, I could produce neat armor and gorgeous room decorations because the cost didn't matter anymore. After a few days though, there didn't seem to be any point to playing. Why grind the limited content and zones? You can only run the same place so many times a day without going insane and things came so easily there was no point to going out there.

Despite all my frustrations, I loved PSU before the cheating. I'm not trying to sound holier than thou or anything but for myself, I don't (knowingly) cheat anymore, even when it's sanctioned. The things that irritate me about this game, even the ones I curse at, I don't complain too much. Things will eventually work out or I'll learn to deal with and work around the frustrations. I don't want it to happen here as I haven't enjoyed crafting (despite the system's flaws) this much in an MMO in a very long time and I don't want to walk away yet but I do think people should have at least one chance to get everything they ask for/complain about. For a lot of people that cures the desire to "Cheat" :P


Yep. I loved PSU until the grinder glitch ruined it.

I also loved the original PSO until I met a guy that dropped a trail of 99,999,999 meseta behind him.

Turn off. That's all folks.

Hey Mik, why are you asking this question exactly?
#22 Oct 22 2010 at 1:59 PM Rating: Good
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This is what DLC does to some games on the PSN. Given, some of the difficulty/item acquisition should be adjusted in those games, but it takes a game that has an element of challenge, and gives you an out around a particularly hard fight. After you circumvent it once or twice, you end up bored and off to play something else.

Anyone ever mess around w/ Balio and Sunder in BoF3? I managed to pilfer both stat boost items from them them in their first encounter. Even though I could get those items anywhere else, it felt like I had beat the game. Doing something that removes the challenge essentially removes all incentive to play. You might as well despawn the world of monsters and explore the environment, because that's all that will remain.

Edited, Oct 22nd 2010 12:59pm by desmar
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#23 Oct 22 2010 at 2:26 PM Rating: Good
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Like others have said, it would be fun for a week maybe, but then I'd get bored and quit. The whole concept of an MMO is slow progression and hard to achieve rewards. If the rewards are just handed to you there's really no game, just a glorified model viewer.
#24 Oct 22 2010 at 2:35 PM Rating: Good
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I would definitely quit the game. I know because that has basically happened to games I've played before...

Perfect example is Borderlands... I went and bought all the DLC for the game, and was ready to go through it all. I went online and saw 99% of people were using godmode hax items. I decided to play through one of the DLC packs solo, as well as going through the old content again for a second time, but after a while it just got boring... The game is meant for co-op, and it was ruined, so as of now, I still have DLC that I will likely never play.

Another example... I used to play Diablo, but the game went to **** with hax and cheats, and it again sucked the fun out of the game, so I quit.

So no, I don't like cheating, and I don't do it. I also quit any match where I see it, and any game where it becomes too prominent. It's like playing Monopoly with some whiny fat kid who insists on being the banker, and then steals all the money and hotels. They are also usually the type who will throw a tantrum and flip the board over if they start losing. ***** them, there are much better people out there to befriend and play with, they can go play with their own kind.

What ever happened to playing games for fun? ****, what happened to the idea of a little sportsmanship? I don't understand why some people get these huge egos over winning in a video game, but it's just not my style. That's the main reason I don't like PvP in mmo's, people take the games WAY too seriously way too often.
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#25 Oct 22 2010 at 3:03 PM Rating: Good
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Way back during the days of Playstation, there was a game called Theme Hospital. I loved that game. But one fateful; day I found a cheat code that let you skip levels. So I skipped to the last level and started playing. But it just wasn't fun anymore. Using cheats turned a game that I really enjoyed into a game that I had absolutely no motivation to play.

No matter how annoyed I get or how desperate I want that shiny new item, I know that getting it through cheats sucks out all the fun of getting it. To get a little sappy: It's not the destination, but the journey.

Edited, Oct 22nd 2010 5:03pm by DeadlyLust
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#26 Oct 22 2010 at 3:22 PM Rating: Good
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It would take the fun out of the game, and I would most likely quit.

I remember when I was a little kid pulling out my game genie and whizzing through a game with infinite hit points and gold. At first it was like "wow I'm a god!", but the satisfaction lasted only a few minutes. I prefer to earn what I get, otherwise what's the point?
#27 Oct 22 2010 at 3:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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But why are you asking? I don't get the angle here.
#28 Oct 22 2010 at 3:28 PM Rating: Good
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RufuSwho wrote:
But why are you asking? I don't get the angle here.


The angle to me seems to be that cheating in a game in turn removes enjoyment from a game. With that being said getting gold from an RMT is cheating. Only thing I can think of is this thread is a deterrent against said RMT. Which I approve.
#29 Oct 22 2010 at 3:35 PM Rating: Good
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Following all of the conditions in the OP, if that happened you couldn't call it a game anymore. It'd be called a simulator since you would get to control pretty much everything consequential. So depending on how others using the abilities affected my gameplay I'd either quit or do nothing different.
#30 Oct 22 2010 at 3:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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RufuSwho wrote:
But why are you asking? I don't get the angle here.


This post made me think about how everyone always talks about how they can't wait to "beat the game" or how they don't like how much time it takes to get money, how much time it takes to get gear, how much time it takes to level up; how whenever people play MMORPGs, it seems the first thing on people's mind from the character creation screen is getting to level cap with the best gear and a lot of money as quickly and effortlessly as possible.

So I pondered, if you could do it in one click with no effort, how many people would actually do it?

The thread has less to do with cheating per se, but was more of an observational analysis on instant gratification.

EDIT: Although I wonder, having explained the purpose of the thread, if that will affect the answers from this point on.

EDIT2: typo

Edited, Oct 22nd 2010 5:41pm by Mikhalia
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#31 Oct 22 2010 at 4:45 PM Rating: Decent
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I would quit the game, no doubt about it, as I'm positive 95%+ of the community would have maxed levels and all the items they wanted.

You could argue that having fun in an MMORPG isn't just about getting items, but also about other things such as following the storyline and killing HNMs with your LS.

While this is true, going through the storyline and killing the same HNMs with your LS after just a few times gets boring VERY quickly if there is absolutely no incentive (striving for a certain item that you don't already own) for doing it.

Human beings are naturally easily bored creatures.
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#32 Oct 22 2010 at 5:09 PM Rating: Good
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1. Max myself out.
2. Solo every NM and take a picture upon it's death.
3. Post each picture on these forums, telling everyone how much I pwned everything and see how much flamage I could get.
4. Quit.
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#33 Oct 22 2010 at 5:49 PM Rating: Decent
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I would do the same thing that I did with Diablo. I would hack for like 2 hours and have fun and then never play again because its pointless, but it is fun for a few hours
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