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A single Gil, why is it so worthless?Follow

#1 Oct 23 2010 at 2:43 AM Rating: Good
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I find this to be a very odd choice by SE, the artificial and nigh imediate devaluation of their games currency. Leveling from 1-9 I was appalled and perplexed by the seemingly insane prices people were charging for even basic low level equipment, however now that I am doing rank 10+ leves I can see why. I can make 30+ thousand gil in just a few quests.

It seems to me though that the amount of gil flooding into the economy everyday must be staggering, back in XI for the average person 20k gil was money you gave thought to spending, and if you bought something low level for that much it was typically something rather special (Bee Spatha +1 comes to mind.. Spiny spipi's cape..ect). High end gear for those passed their second limit break was when things started jumping into the 100k-300k+ range (elemental staffs, Scorpy Harness).

At this rate however, by the time this game reaches that stage (assuming it lives long enough..) we are going to be seeing equivalent gear going for 100s of millions. And if someone should ever find FFXIV's version of a Kraken Club, I imagine billions. I realize the number is just a number but it strikes me as odd as to why SE would choose to do it this way.
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#2Aujade, Posted: Oct 23 2010 at 2:45 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Are we canceling subscription again? Oh wait...freetime. dang.
#3 Oct 23 2010 at 2:47 AM Rating: Decent
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Aujade wrote:
Are we canceling subscription again? Oh wait...freetime. dang.

Huh?
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#4 Oct 23 2010 at 2:48 AM Rating: Decent
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its my belief prices were high at the start because the number of ppl able to make the elements that took a higher skill than the rank the item was for. if that changes then so will prices and will level out at reasonable for the rank the gear is intended for
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#5 Oct 23 2010 at 2:57 AM Rating: Decent
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For whatever reason, SE has a high numbers syndrome with this game. Instead of 0.3 skill, we get 30, or 300. Instead of 8,000 tnl, it's more like 80,000.

And of course it's there with gil, too - I haven't sold a ton of stuff, yet I'm about to hit 3 million gil. Just from advancing my classes. Now, I do farm my own shards and whatnot, and I've been playing a lot, but that's still a big number for what I've been doing. I would too think that the highest valued items may eventually be worth 1 billion + gil.

Edited, Oct 23rd 2010 4:57am by Coyohma
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#6 Oct 23 2010 at 2:59 AM Rating: Good
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dilthanas wrote:
its my belief prices were high at the start because the number of ppl able to make the elements that took a higher skill than the rank the item was for. if that changes then so will prices and will level out at reasonable for the rank the gear is intended for



I have no doubt that that influenced initial prices, and still is. But at the same time there is an awful lot of gil being swept into the economy at the moment and very little being drained from it, this will lead to very large numbers when it comes to what things cost. The only way I see this own't happen is if either SE nerfs the gil rewards for leves, or if some major Gil Sinks are introduced to siphon money out of the game.


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For whatever reason, SE has a high numbers syndrome with this game. Instead of 0.3 skill, we get 30, or 300. Instead of 8,000 tnl, it's more like 80,000.

And of course it's there with gil, too - I haven't sold a ton of stuff, yet I'm about to hit 3 million gil. Just from advancing my classes. Now, I do farm my own shards and whatnot, and I've been playing a lot, but that's still a big number for what I've been doing. I would too think that the highest valued items may eventually be worth 1 billion + gil.


Aye this is what I'm getting at. In FFXI, few people got to the 3 mil mark, the highest I ever had in FFXI was I think 30 million or so, it's just a bit bizarre to me. **** in FFXI they would issue monthly statements showing how many trillions of Gil they were removing from the game across all servers during the Huge inflation crisis RMT caused around.. what was Christmas 05? At this rate you could see that figure per server.. >.>;

Edited, Oct 23rd 2010 5:03am by mistrik
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#7 Oct 23 2010 at 3:18 AM Rating: Decent
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As a fellow XI player, I agree with your statements whole heartedly. I have to constantly remind myself...30k isn't that much..its about1-5k in old-gil. gets rather confusing, but im sure ill figure out the worth of gil once the economy settles.
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#8 Oct 23 2010 at 4:27 AM Rating: Good
This is likely another counter-measure for RMT. If gil rains from the sky and is so easy to get, why bother buying it from a third-party source? You should realize by now it seems FFXIV was built entirely around combating traditional RMT practices.
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#9 Oct 23 2010 at 4:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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Sir SamusKnight wrote:
This is likely another counter-measure for RMT. If gil rains from the sky and is so easy to get, why bother buying it from a third-party source? You should realize by now it seems FFXIV was built entirely around combating traditional RMT practices.

Up to and including having any potential customers left. *rimshot*




If the game survives, RMT will likely move on from selling money to selling High demand items and equipment much like in Diablo. (yes, diablo/diablo II have RMT)

Edited, Oct 23rd 2010 6:31am by mistrik
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#10 Oct 23 2010 at 4:35 AM Rating: Good
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Sir SamusKnight wrote:
This is likely another counter-measure for RMT. If gil rains from the sky and is so easy to get, why bother buying it from a third-party source? You should realize by now it seems FFXIV was built entirely around combating traditional RMT practices.

Means nothing, more gil just means higher prices, wich means that even more gil is needed, wich just makes the numbers sold higher (and harder for new players to get into the market, making them even more likely to be tempted to buy gil).
#11 Oct 23 2010 at 4:36 AM Rating: Good
mistrik wrote:
Sir SamusKnight wrote:
This is likely another counter-measure for RMT. If gil rains from the sky and is so easy to get, why bother buying it from a third-party source? You should realize by now it seems FFXIV was built entirely around combating traditional RMT practices.

Up to and including having any potential customers left. *rimshot*




If the game survives, RMT will likely move on from selling money to selling High demand items and equipment much like in Diablo. (yes, diablo/diablo II have RMT)

Edited, Oct 23rd 2010 6:31am by mistrik


Never said I approved of SE's measures, just that it shouldn't come as too much of a surprise. Hopefully it'll click in SE's brain their actions up until now is killing their own game before it can spread its wings. We'll find out in the coming months, starting with their first big update before the end of the year.
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#12 Oct 23 2010 at 4:40 AM Rating: Good
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Sir SamusKnight wrote:
mistrik wrote:
Sir SamusKnight wrote:
This is likely another counter-measure for RMT. If gil rains from the sky and is so easy to get, why bother buying it from a third-party source? You should realize by now it seems FFXIV was built entirely around combating traditional RMT practices.

Up to and including having any potential customers left. *rimshot*




If the game survives, RMT will likely move on from selling money to selling High demand items and equipment much like in Diablo. (yes, diablo/diablo II have RMT)

Edited, Oct 23rd 2010 6:31am by mistrik


Never said I approved of SE's measures, just that it shouldn't come as too much of a surprise. Hopefully it'll click in SE's brain their actions up until now is killing their own game before it can spread its wings. We'll find out in the coming months, starting with their first big update before the end of the year.


I'm crossing my fingers and toes that it will turn around, I do really want FFXIV to be a good game. There is already promise here, the cities are lovely, the graphics beautiful, and Limsa Lominsa is one of the most impressive places I've seen in an online game, let alone as a starter city. I just wish the foundation for all this was sturdier, I really hope it improves.
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#13 Oct 23 2010 at 4:44 AM Rating: Decent
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This is likely another counter-measure for RMT. If gil rains from the sky and is so easy to get, why bother buying it from a third-party source? You should realize by now it seems FFXIV was built entirely around combating traditional RMT practices.


Wont work that way, if they make gil more easily obtainable but still have things you need to buy which are controlled by players the prices will simply skyrocket up on those, people will still buy gil or need to farm/craft/w.e to mass degrees to buy those items. Only way easier to get gil would combat rmt would be if everything you could buy had static reaonable prices.
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#14 Oct 23 2010 at 4:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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players got upset when RMT inflated the economy. To prevent this SE inflated it first.
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#15 Oct 23 2010 at 5:03 AM Rating: Excellent
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KujaKoF wrote:
players got upset when RMT inflated the economy. To prevent this SE inflated it first.

This made me chuckle.
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#16 Oct 23 2010 at 5:05 AM Rating: Decent
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Sir SamusKnight wrote:
This is likely another counter-measure for RMT. If gil rains from the sky and is so easy to get, why bother buying it from a third-party source? You should realize by now it seems FFXIV was built entirely around combating traditional RMT practices.

Do some not realize how this works? It's common sense. 1 million gil doesn't have a static value between games, for instance...

If 1 mil was 40 bucks in XI, then 10 mil will be 40 bucks in XIV. That'd be the only change. Now, if SE didn't include extremely valuable things in XIV, then that would effect RMT.

Mostly echoing what preludes said.

Edited, Oct 23rd 2010 7:10am by Coyohma
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#17 Oct 23 2010 at 5:12 AM Rating: Good
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Prices and rewards were pretty normal in closed beta, but they jacked everything up by a power of 10 for open beta and pretty much left it that way.
#18 Oct 23 2010 at 5:39 AM Rating: Decent
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Also, with a crafter economy and no bind on pick up mechanics, anyone can eventually get any kind of gear they want, as long as they got the gil for it, wich makes it even more tempting to just buy some gil for the uber mega armor of doom instead of farming for a few weeks for it.
Altough on the flip side, the fact that there is no bind on equip mechanics either should, in theory, make most weapons and armor more common place (eventually, and with AH so we can actually sell them reliably), and deflate the prices a bit.
#19 Oct 23 2010 at 6:16 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm rich! I love swimming in gil in XIV!

Seriously I never had more than 60k gil in XI, ever. I know it's just a number and blah blah blah but to me it makes a big difference. Even more so with skill points. I used to fish in XI for weeks to get a single tiny +0,2 fishing skill points. 118 pts for a single fish? **** yeah! (you're free to call me simple because of this nonsense reasoning)
#20 Oct 23 2010 at 7:06 AM Rating: Good
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i think its mostly to make sure everyone can literally do anything right off the bat. starter weapons/tools cost a total of maybe 3000 gil total for a set at max, and you make about 10k finishing off the first quest series. coupled with leves and random gil from chests and some mobs and its pretty easy to get a little nest egg going, keeping basic level options open for people.

as for completed items being so expensive, well, part of that is the first crafters will always charge more simply because they are, for however brief a period of time, the only ones who can make said item. theyve got the market cornered as it were, and theyll **** well charge whatever the feel like. if you feel its worth the gil, buy it. if not, just wait a bit. as others catch up, the prices will inevitably go down. or else just do as some do and level the appropriate crafts to get said gear.

but getting back to the gil, i agree to a certain extent with what samus said; its something of an anti-RMT measure. but by contrast, getting gil in FF11 was so **** hard early on it really stymied the ability of a newbie to get going in the game. if anything, 14 might need a few more gil sinks, or an adjustment of current gil sinks to accomodate the higher quantity of gil. i think once chocobo renting comes into play, and perhaps airship taxis, we'll see more gil leaving the system, thus raising the value of the currency.
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#21 Oct 23 2010 at 7:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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seiferdincht wrote:
I'm rich! I love swimming in gil in XIV!

Seriously I never had more than 60k gil in XI, ever. I know it's just a number and blah blah blah but to me it makes a big difference. Even more so with skill points. I used to fish in XI for weeks to get a single tiny +0,2 fishing skill points. 118 pts for a single fish? **** yeah! (you're free to call me simple because of this nonsense reasoning)


But that's exactly the OP's point - it's all relative to the wealth in the entire economy. You're not rich it just feels that way, and that's not necessarily a good thing.

I'm sure for you, if you came from a situation in XI where you struggled to break more than 60k at anytime, that having 1 or 2 million gil in XIV just feels like a tremendous amount. The problem is there are a lot of people with that amount and the reality of the situation is your financial situation is not as strong as you believe it to be. For all we know right now 1 million gil in FFXIV could be nothing more than 60k in XI, so it could very well be your situation hasn't improved. This is a bad setting to place players into.

The problem with this inflation is that there is already a price ceiling for a lot of base crafting goods. That is, various NPCs sell these items for x amount of gil. As such, often the supply and demand price equilibrium for these items puts it around the 200 - 400 gil mark.

When players are making millions of gil just by doing leves on their way to level 25+, and a retainer can only sell 10 items at a time, it's not fiscally sound to take up a bazaar inventory spot with an item you're only going to get 150 gil for.

Why is this bad? Raw goods are the cornerstone of a crafting and player-created crafting economy. It is completely reasonable to think that we could eventually see a situation where a lot of low-level synth crafts are simply not sold on the player market. Players will simply vendor any and all goods they have on their climb to mid level.

I can't see a situation where this is a good thing for FFXIV.


Edited, Oct 23rd 2010 9:08am by Whales
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#22 Oct 23 2010 at 7:14 AM Rating: Decent
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Why is this bad? Raw goods are the cornerstone of a crafting and player-created crafting economy. It is completely reasonable to think that we could eventually see a situation where a lot of low-level synth crafts are simply not sold on the player market. Players will simply vendor any and all goods they have on their climb to mid level.


i see your point, but i highly doubt something like that would happen. there will ALWAYS be a market. there will always be someone who fills a needed gap in games like these. my friend, at rank 18 alchemy, still makes and sells stacks of animal glue. even tho the big thing now is wing glue (WAY above his rank) and he can make fish glue no problem (assuming he has the mats) he still churns out a stack or two of animal glue every few days. then he sticks it on his retainer girl, selling it for about 300 gil a pop, and comes back in a day or two to find himself 300k+ richer.

hes actually raised his prices a bit lately because the demand definitely seems to be there and he can produce it without breaking a sweat. hes also apparently got a little bit of a rep as the dude that sells animal glue. im sure all this glue is feeding a low level boom in goods that require it. i sometimes do the same thing on my leatherworker, cranking out a stack of sheep leather straps and selling them for cheap near the tanners guild.

bottom line being, there will always be people willing to fill a niche in a market if a niche is found to be in need of filling. all that matters is that the individual decides that the return gained from filling the niche is worth the effort it takes.
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#23 Oct 23 2010 at 7:21 AM Rating: Good
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Quor wrote:
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Why is this bad? Raw goods are the cornerstone of a crafting and player-created crafting economy. It is completely reasonable to think that we could eventually see a situation where a lot of low-level synth crafts are simply not sold on the player market. Players will simply vendor any and all goods they have on their climb to mid level.


i see your point, but i highly doubt something like that would happen. there will ALWAYS be a market. there will always be someone who fills a needed gap in games like these. my friend, at rank 18 alchemy, still makes and sells stacks of animal glue. even tho the big thing now is wing glue (WAY above his rank) and he can make fish glue no problem (assuming he has the mats) he still churns out a stack or two of animal glue every few days. then he sticks it on his retainer girl, selling it for about 300 gil a pop, and comes back in a day or two to find himself 300k+ richer.

hes actually raised his prices a bit lately because the demand definitely seems to be there and he can produce it without breaking a sweat. hes also apparently got a little bit of a rep as the dude that sells animal glue. im sure all this glue is feeding a low level boom in goods that require it. i sometimes do the same thing on my leatherworker, cranking out a stack of sheep leather straps and selling them for cheap near the tanners guild.

bottom line being, there will always be people willing to fill a niche in a market if a niche is found to be in need of filling. all that matters is that the individual decides that the return gained from filling the niche is worth the effort it takes.


I believe you're right, the problem is right now there's a disconnect between the price equilibrium for low-level goods and the amount of wealth in the economy. And I'm either not smart enough to see the reason why or just haven't looked hard enough. Either way, it causes me to raise the questions I did.

A couple hundred thousand gil is nothing in FFXIV, yet there are several high-demand baseline crafting goods that simply don't sell for more than 150 gil. I'm not real sure that's a natural S&D equilibrium.

Like I said, it could be and I'm just too obtuse to see it right now, but it does worry me.

I have another theory, I just haven't tested it yet so I don't want to opine an opinion here that has no basis in fact. But it has to do with your friend's situation above - that is raw goods are essentially worthless and we should be crafting those in some form or another before selling. My basis for this is several items crafting into more items than were necessary to create it to begin with - why sell three copper ore for 200 gil when you can turn those into 16 copper nuggets and sell those for 150 gil each?

Anyway, I haven't tested this theory yet so I don't want to make it sound like this is the answer.


Edited, Oct 23rd 2010 9:25am by Whales
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#24 Oct 23 2010 at 7:31 AM Rating: Good
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A couple hundred thousand gil is nothing in FFXIV, yet there are several high-demand baseline crafting goods that simply don't sell for more than 150 gil. I'm not real sure that's a natural S&D equilibrium.

Like I said, it could be and I'm just too obtuse to see it right now, but it does worry me.


well, theres nothing wrong with bandying about a few ideas.

personally, i think SE really went for a low level accessibility approach with 14. FF11 was great fun, but very hard to get going financially for a new player. my friends and i still joke about using our onion weapons up until the low teens, where we met a group of very philanthropic JP players who bought us some basic weapon upgrades and gave us a few tips on making money (which at the time was "sell fire crystals and silk").

fast forward to 14 here, and youve got this vast job system that anyone can take part in right from the get go. maybe someone starts as conj, sees a little lala running around with a big axe and decides that being a marauder is cool. i think SE took that into consideration and decided that the low level stuff, for all the professions, was something that everyone should have access too.

for example, you can buy the intro weapons and some basic intro goods for pretty **** cheap. its enough that a person who needs something to get thru a craft, or wants to start a new job can drop a few thousand gil and be set. but as soon as you hit the next tier of stuff (mostly the entry bronze stuff, like bronze dagger, or bronze labrys) you see a very large increase in the NPC costs. i think the expectation there is that these items are a secondary possibility for people who are unable to acquire them for whatever reason, as well as providing something of a hard cap in terms of what crafters would charge for the item. the materials to make, say, the bronze labrys were so expensive the first two weeks that it was better to drop the 40k gil on the vendor bought one in LL than the get one from a crafter. no crafter would even bother to sell them because the raw mats cost more from other crafters than the labrys could feasibly be sold for.

so in a sense, i think the increased amount of gil is a newbie aid as much as it is an RMT deterrent. it allows people to get a start and not have to worry about whether or not theyll be able to get past rank 10 without upgrading something.
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#25 Oct 23 2010 at 7:38 AM Rating: Good
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Quor wrote:

so in a sense, i think the increased amount of gil is a newbie aid as much as it is an RMT deterrent. it allows people to get a start and not have to worry about whether or not theyll be able to get past rank 10 without upgrading something.


You're on to something. I'm extremely curious as to how this game's economy will be in a few months. There are just so many factors being introduced - the Ward changes, the average player level going up, etc - that what we have right now in terms of prices and supply could very well not exist in as little as three months.

I keep wondering to myself what item we're vendoring now for just a couple gil that will be worth thousands come PS3 launch time. "You all remember when we use to vendor Marmot Meat for a couple hundred gil a stack?" "lol yea, now I sell that stuff for 60k per stack and it just flies out of my retainer."

Edited, Oct 23rd 2010 9:39am by Whales
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#26 Oct 23 2010 at 7:47 AM Rating: Good
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Quor wrote:
Quote:

A couple hundred thousand gil is nothing in FFXIV, yet there are several high-demand baseline crafting goods that simply don't sell for more than 150 gil. I'm not real sure that's a natural S&D equilibrium.

Like I said, it could be and I'm just too obtuse to see it right now, but it does worry me.


well, there's nothing wrong with bandying about a few ideas.

personally, i think SE really went for a low level accessibility approach with 14. FF11 was great fun, but very hard to get going financially for a new player. my friends and i still joke about using our onion weapons up until the low teens, where we met a group of very philanthropic JP players who bought us some basic weapon upgrades and gave us a few tips on making money (which at the time was "sell fire crystals and silk").

fast forward to 14 here, and youve got this vast job system that anyone can take part in right from the get go. maybe someone starts as conj, sees a little lala running around with a big axe and decides that being a marauder is cool. i think SE took that into consideration and decided that the low level stuff, for all the professions, was something that everyone should have access too.

for example, you can buy the intro weapons and some basic intro goods for pretty **** cheap. its enough that a person who needs something to get thru a craft, or wants to start a new job can drop a few thousand gil and be set. but as soon as you hit the next tier of stuff (mostly the entry bronze stuff, like bronze dagger, or bronze labrys) you see a very large increase in the NPC costs. i think the expectation there is that these items are a secondary possibility for people who are unable to acquire them for whatever reason, as well as providing something of a hard cap in terms of what crafters would charge for the item. the materials to make, say, the bronze labrys were so expensive the first two weeks that it was better to drop the 40k gil on the vendor bought one in LL than the get one from a crafter. no crafter would even bother to sell them because the raw mats cost more from other crafters than the labrys could feasibly be sold for.

so in a sense, i think the increased amount of gil is a newbie aid as much as it is an RMT deterrent. it allows people to get a start and not have to worry about whether or not theyll be able to get past rank 10 without upgrading something.



I have to disagree with your conclusion here, while it may be relatively easy to get a start in a new job/class, prices for 1-9 are still way out of your league. chest/leg Armor of any kind sells for at least 12k+, and weapons/tools are nigh impossible to obtain, I had to drop 40k to get a pair of Bronze Knuckles to replace my weathered hora. Before I hit 10, there was no way I was going to be able to get the level 6/9 weapons with prices the way they are. It of course doesn't help that the fubar'd crafting system makes weapon and tool upgrades so difficult and time consuming to make.

Perhaps if one sold all ones shards 1-9 it might be feasible to some degree if you got lucky, but then that precludes the possibility of you using those shards and thus leveling the profession you just got a start in. While it may be easier to obtain the initial items, it doesn't take long to run into a very solid brick wall.
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#27 Oct 23 2010 at 8:12 AM Rating: Decent
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I just like bigger numbers that's all =D
#28 Oct 23 2010 at 8:30 AM Rating: Good
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Whales wrote:
A couple hundred thousand gil is nothing in FFXIV, yet there are several high-demand baseline crafting goods that simply don't sell for more than 150 gil. I'm not real sure that's a natural S&D equilibrium.


It is. The supply side on the equasion is not the supply of cash available, but the supply of materials available. If Shriekshrooms suddenly spiked up to 10k each because there was a high demand and so few available, then you can bet that Fungaurs would be the most hunted mob in the game. There's not that much demand, though, so the price stays much lower.

You don't get rich by paying more for something than you have to.

I'm personally hoping that as more and more people get to leves that reward guild points instead of cash that the inflation might die down, but there's no way of knowing for sure.
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#29 Oct 23 2010 at 8:50 AM Rating: Good
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Ialaman wrote:
It is. The supply side on the equasion is not the supply of cash available, but the supply of materials available. If Shriekshrooms suddenly spiked up to 10k each because there was a high demand and so few available, then you can bet that Fungaurs would be the most hunted mob in the game. There's not that much demand, though, so the price stays much lower.

You don't get rich by paying more for something than you have to.

I'm personally hoping that as more and more people get to leves that reward guild points instead of cash that the inflation might die down, but there's no way of knowing for sure.


My apologies, I worded that completely wrong. I was trying to question whether the price indicated by equilibrium was in line with the current economic value of a gil, not if we were in equilibrium to begin with.

Given the amount of wealth in the economy right now, it seems strange to me that high demand low level craft items are in equilibrium with their supply for around 100 to 150 gil. If that's where the economy is then so be it, but I find it fascinating if true.

With a seven figure income accomplished through printed currency (leve quests) on a relatively short cooldown, the economic incentive to acquire your own good through a gathering class is close to zero. If I can make 20k per leve quest every 36 hours, and copper ore is currently in equilibrium for 200 gil per ore, it doesn't make economic sense for me to pick up a pickaxe and spend the time hunting nodes. Correct?
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#30 Oct 23 2010 at 8:59 AM Rating: Good
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Whales wrote:
Ialaman wrote:
It is. The supply side on the equasion is not the supply of cash available, but the supply of materials available. If Shriekshrooms suddenly spiked up to 10k each because there was a high demand and so few available, then you can bet that Fungaurs would be the most hunted mob in the game. There's not that much demand, though, so the price stays much lower.

You don't get rich by paying more for something than you have to.

I'm personally hoping that as more and more people get to leves that reward guild points instead of cash that the inflation might die down, but there's no way of knowing for sure.


My apologies, I worded that completely wrong. I was trying to question whether the price indicated by equilibrium was in line with the current economic value of a gil, not if we were in equilibrium to begin with.

Given the amount of wealth in the economy right now, it seems strange to me that high demand low level craft items are in equilibrium with their supply for around 100 to 150 gil. If that's where the economy is then so be it, but I find it fascinating if true.

With a seven figure income accomplished through printed currency (leve quests) on a relatively short cooldown, the economic incentive to acquire your own good through a gathering class is close to zero. If I can make 20k per leve quest every 36 hours, and copper ore is currently in equilibrium for 200 gil per ore, it doesn't make economic sense for me to pick up a pickaxe and spend the time hunting nodes. Correct?



I see your point, and while true it does neglect that if you buy your own ore you also need to buy your own crystals/shards. And this neglects tools/armor/weapons which are all insanely priced, atm if I earn 40k gil a day I could purchase one-two pieces of equipment at most, leaving nothing left over for materials. But this is not that game breaking early on as the starter gear does thankfully hold it's usefulness for awhile so one could conceivably bum there way through.

Your thoughts about the NPC-inspired hard cap for prices is a good line of thought though, it's typically the measure by which virtual goods economies form and at this rate gil is quickly mounting up while NPC's are not increasing their prices to match. I'm not sure what effect, good or ill, this would have but I would assume it must translate into something that we will see manifest itself sooner or later.
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#31 Oct 23 2010 at 9:58 AM Rating: Good
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Whales wrote:
With a seven figure income accomplished through printed currency (leve quests) on a relatively short cooldown, the economic incentive to acquire your own good through a gathering class is close to zero. If I can make 20k per leve quest every 36 hours, and copper ore is currently in equilibrium for 200 gil per ore, it doesn't make economic sense for me to pick up a pickaxe and spend the time hunting nodes. Correct?


Possibly. Very early after release I found a guy who was being bankrolled as his guild's carpenter. I went out and harvested Elm Logs, and he gave me 4-4.5k each. The price has since crashed down to about 1500 a log because there are more people farming them, but there certainly are items that have a high price and demand.

I expect that past level 20 it will balance out much better. As it is right now everyone's trying every trade, because it's so cheap. Once it starts getting expensive past 20 people will thin out and move from crafters to buyers.
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#32 Oct 23 2010 at 1:12 PM Rating: Decent
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Sir SamusKnight wrote:
This is likely another counter-measure for RMT. If gil rains from the sky and is so easy to get, why bother buying it from a third-party source? You should realize by now it seems FFXIV was built entirely around combating traditional RMT practices.


I agree with this. Nothing in the game thus far is so difficult to get that you ever really need a whole lot of gil if you've got the patience and the people skills to collaborate with others to get things done. True self sufficiency in all areas starts to fade very rapidly beyond about rank 20 or so unless you're extremely patient, but for a game just barely over a month old, patience is something everyone is going to need because we're going to have a fair span of time before the endgame stuff really stats to fill out.

As far as managing the economy, SE has done a pretty good job so far. All they have to do to keep things moving is make sue the content that provides the thins players want remains accessible. It doesn't have to be easy, but I'm hoping they've gotten over their notion that restricting access to content in order to keep things "rare" is an exceptionally poor way to design an MMO.
#33 Oct 23 2010 at 2:55 PM Rating: Good
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Consider an orange cost 1.1k gil, a kabob worths 6k gil in game.

If you feel 12k for a piece of low lvl armor is expensive, it isn't actually. Imagine in real life, a dozen of orange, or 2 kabob can trade for a piece of armor, you still think its expensive?

Having 1M gil isnt that much, 300k for a decent weapon isnt that much, if you do the conversion.
#34 Oct 23 2010 at 3:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Just do as I do and imagine that S/E forgot to add the decimal places and everything starts to make a tad bit more sense.
lol

Edited, Oct 23rd 2010 5:48pm by Faaeng
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#35 Oct 23 2010 at 4:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Numbers are numbers. Smaller numbers are not inherently easier to balance.

Why you're complaining I have no clue because it's all relative. Frankly, you're approaching it from a FFXI mindset it looks like and that's your problem. You believe that because you had such relatively small numbers in FFXI (which is an ANOMALY in the series) that FFXIV has to follow this mindset?

FFXIV is FFXIV, not FFXI v2.0.
#36 Oct 23 2010 at 7:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Sir SamusKnight wrote:
This is likely another counter-measure for RMT. If gil rains from the sky and is so easy to get, why bother buying it from a third-party source? You should realize by now it seems FFXIV was built entirely around combating traditional RMT practices.


Yeah, but instead of selling gil they will sell Crystals..

Shameless plea..in 5, 4, 3, 2,...

Anyone on Trabia server have Fire Crystals for sale for a fair price..?
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#37 Oct 23 2010 at 7:17 PM Rating: Good
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While we're all relatively low level (relative to the cap, whatever that is) anyone and everyone can craft their own gear with a bit of time invested. Wait till folk are looking for their level 50 or 60 gear, that involves materials from 4 or 5 different crafts... anyone with level 50 in (say) armor/leather/weaver/carpenter will be a lot rarer than the level 10 or 20 all-rounders we're at today. More specialisation, so a player economy. Unless you want to spend all day every day working on the 10000 craft exp you can count towards getting to Weaver 49 (2 billion tnl).
#38 Oct 23 2010 at 7:20 PM Rating: Good
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StrijderVechter wrote:
Numbers are numbers. Smaller numbers are not inherently easier to balance.

Why you're complaining I have no clue because it's all relative. Frankly, you're approaching it from a FFXI mindset it looks like and that's your problem. You believe that because you had such relatively small numbers in FFXI (which is an ANOMALY in the series) that FFXIV has to follow this mindset?

FFXIV is FFXIV, not FFXI v2.0.



I think you completely missed the point I was getting at. Also, this isn't a complaint thread, just a discussion on why they made a particular design choice and what implications it may have in the future. I'm sorry that you seem to be the only poster who didn't realize that.

Virtual economy inflation is a common problem among most if not all MMO's, but it is typically something that happens after the game has aged to the point where the amount of currency in circulation is significantly greater then the amount leaving it via sinks. FFXIV has already well surpassed this point barely one month into it's life span, thus we have to wonder where this trend will take us.
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#39 Oct 23 2010 at 7:34 PM Rating: Default
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same reason everything good in XI costed millions of gil. no reason at all. they decided they liked big numbers?
#40 Oct 23 2010 at 7:52 PM Rating: Decent
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klepp6761 wrote:
same reason everything good in XI costed millions of gil. no reason at all. they decided they liked big numbers?


Items in FFXI sold for millions of gil thanks to RMT. In ffxiv its thanks to SE handing it out like candy.

lol I found the post that tie's in good with the one i made. I wonder if you mine if link to this one from mine to help tie in my point.
#41 Oct 23 2010 at 7:55 PM Rating: Good
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Sethern79 wrote:
klepp6761 wrote:
same reason everything good in XI costed millions of gil. no reason at all. they decided they liked big numbers?


Items in FFXI sold for millions of gil thanks to RMT. In ffxiv its thanks to SE handing it out like candy.

lol I found the post that tie's in good with the one i made. I wonder if you mine if link to this one from mine to help tie in my point.

Not at all, anything that fosters discussion is only a good thing.
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