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Shards/Crystals the new FFXIV currency?Follow

#1 Oct 23 2010 at 7:00 PM Rating: Decent
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I got to thinking about this today as I hit the 25 millon Gil mark. Gil realy is losing its value as a currency. There is no way I should have as much gil as I do at lvl 35. there is nothing for me to us Gil for and I realy don't see SE puting out Chocobos or Air ships and charging 500k + a ride to pull some of this gil out of the game. Then I got to thinking if Gil loses its value as a currency what would take its place.

I started to think of just how I made gil. Sure I make a lot from guild leves but not to the point that I should have made this much this fast. I am not a crafter, **** not one of my crafting jobs is over rank 1. Then it hit me. Crystals and Shards. I have been selling every crystal and shard I got from lvling. And the truth is Crystals and Shards are the only thing in the game that are not seeing a price drop. infact they are steadly increasing in price. Most shards started out selling around 100-150 gil. Now I am geting around 200-300 gil for each shard. Crystals that where selling for 1000-1500 are now easly selling for 2000-2500 gil on my server.

Now befor I get to my question there is another game that we saw this hapon in, Diablo 2. Im sure a lot of you know that in Diablo 2 you did not buy items with gold. If you wanted that nice rare sword it would cost you in 2 forms of currency. Ither SOJ's or ruens/gems. You never saw anyone saying. "WTS godly sword of *** kicking for 300.000 gold." No it was "WTS godly sword of *** kicking 40 sojs". And this is where my question comes in.

Will we soon see Gil lose its Value 100% as a player to player currency? Will we soon see people shouting. "WTS (insert item here) for 3000+ shards!"? Now befor you anser this stop and think for a second. Its is not hard at all to make gil in this game. I could see making more than the gil you will need to keep your self riding chocobos and air ships when they come out. Shards and crystals will always be needed by crafters. Once they start to have more gil than they could ever spend for the life of the game what is to stop them from charging shards and crystals for gear instead of gil?


Just somethng that I was think about and wonderd what others mite think. So what do you think?

PS this post gose hand in hand with what Im talking about here. Thanks to Mistrik for leting me link to it.

http://ffxiv.zam.com/forum.html?game=268&mid=128782343187304206&page=1&howmany=50#msg128782343187304206

Edited, Oct 23rd 2010 10:28pm by Sethern79
#2 Oct 23 2010 at 7:07 PM Rating: Default
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25mil gil??

no pic = bs

nothing to see here guys.........
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#3 Oct 23 2010 at 7:11 PM Rating: Good
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namasy wrote:
25mil gil??

no pic = bs

nothing to see here guys.........


Sure think what you want. You know gil dosent just fall from the sky or anything in this game. I can point 3 crafter in my LS atm siting at 40+ mil. but W/E.
#4 Oct 23 2010 at 7:15 PM Rating: Default
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well as i said no point = what ever you said is bs!!


when we see pic then we can start talking about the topic!
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#5 Oct 23 2010 at 7:19 PM Rating: Good
lol i believe him i have 2m and i havent done **** other than leves and sell crystals
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#6 Oct 23 2010 at 7:21 PM Rating: Good
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Crystals really only carry value with crafters. If you offered me say 20 fire crystals for a Birdsbeak Hammer I would jump at the opportunity to not have to go farm them myself (or god forbid try to find them in the wards)

Now if I am selling off my last bow having gotten my hands on a bigger better badder one the only way I would be interested in taking shards or crystals in exchange would be if I knew I could off them in my bazaar for a fair bit more than I wanted for the item I was trading

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#7 Oct 23 2010 at 7:28 PM Rating: Decent
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Teegotaru wrote:
Crystals really only carry value with crafters. If you offered me say 20 fire crystals for a Birdsbeak Hammer I would jump at the opportunity to not have to go farm them myself (or god forbid try to find them in the wards)

Now if I am selling off my last bow having gotten my hands on a bigger better badder one the only way I would be interested in taking shards or crystals in exchange would be if I knew I could off them in my bazaar for a fair bit more than I wanted for the item I was trading

-Teeg


I to still sell items after upgrading for gil. Infact I just upgraded from the bronze set to Iron + a few of the bronze full plate items, and sold all my old gear off. But thats now. The rate at wich people are geting gil to me sujests that the servers will soon become so saturated with gil that no one will care to have it. I mean people will ither start selling gear for 50+ mil each or start looking at other forms of currency.

I saw this a few times with items such as your Birdsbeak Hammer. You would go into a ward and people would be seeking say 100 shards. When you went to see what they where offering it would be a ring or a hammer or W/E item you can think of.

Edited, Oct 23rd 2010 9:30pm by Sethern79
#8 Oct 23 2010 at 7:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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namasy wrote:
25mil gil??

no pic = bs

nothing to see here guys.........



You can make 40-50 thousand gil from leves alone at level 10. 25 million gil would be easily obtainable by the mid twenties-30's, sooner if you actually tried to make gil. I could sell my wind shards for a a couple hundred thousand right now if I weren't using them. Fire shards are similar, and I have even more of those on me.


This topic ties in pretty well with my discussion on why SE chose to so rapidly devalue the Gil right out of the gate.
I already frequently see people offering item's in their bazaars for everything from crystals/shards to other items and even repairs. Could be we will see more of this and the XIV economy may turn into a pseudo-barter based one.

Edited, Oct 23rd 2010 9:31pm by mistrik
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#9namasy, Posted: Oct 23 2010 at 7:29 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) lol , thats what he do too from our record, he has over ten times the then what you have!!
#10 Oct 23 2010 at 7:30 PM Rating: Good
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Hmm, that's not a half bad of an idea. ;-)
I'm low on fire & wind. XD

I don't doubt the OP has as much as he claims.
It's not like it is hard to come by in the least. Especially if your doing leves and a crafters.
Gil already is practically worthless in game.
I see people offering up 20-30k for teleport all the time.
Gil is just too easy to come by

Edited, Oct 23rd 2010 9:35pm by Faaeng
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#11namasy, Posted: Oct 23 2010 at 7:41 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) lol non of you guys have over 20m gil with no craft job, let alone 25m gil.
#12 Oct 23 2010 at 7:43 PM Rating: Good
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mistrik wrote:
namasy wrote:
25mil gil??

no pic = bs

nothing to see here guys.........



You can make 40-50 thousand gil from leves alone at level 10. 25 million gil would be easily obtainable by the mid twenties-30's, sooner if you actually tried to make gil. I could sell my wind shards for a a couple hundred thousand right now if I weren't using them. Fire shards are similar, and I have even more of those on me.


This topic ties in pretty well with my discussion on why SE chose to so rapidly devalue the Gil right out of the gate.
I already frequently see people offering item's in their bazaars for everything from crystals/shards to other items and even repairs. Could be we will see more of this and the XIV economy may turn into a pseudo-barter based one.

Edited, Oct 23rd 2010 9:31pm by mistrik


Thats realy what im geting at. Barter system. Thanks for the word :). Anyway I already barter with people in my LS with items that drop off the mobs I am killing at the time. I got an Iron Falchion by trading 5 stacks of Hipogrif tallons to a BlackSmith LS friend.

Ihave started to send them wings like mad for some glue they are making now and find that new rings or this or that is sent my way in return. Its not hard for me to see the time when gil will no longer be traded from player to player.
#13 Oct 23 2010 at 7:45 PM Rating: Decent
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namasy wrote:
lol non of you guys have over 20m gil with no craft job, let alone 25m gil.

this topic is fail, OP cant find anyone with no crafting job to take a pic, lol.



Im not looking for one. And Im not going to take a Pic on my self to make you happy. You can keep trolling all you like. this is the last time I will respond to you.
#14 Oct 23 2010 at 7:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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this topic is fail, OP cant find anyone with no crafting job to take a pic, lol.

And if he does, what will you do? You've come into this thread repeatedly to call the Op a liar, so you've clearly got a stake in this for some bizarre reason. If he posts a pic, what will you do? Nobody else has a problem with it, so the burden is on you to give him a reason to bother. Otherwise, you've got no more credibility than he does, and frankly the Op's posts make him look smarter than yours make you look.

And, on topic: I suspect there are actually plenty of crystals out there, but crafters need lots of them and there's no convenient way to get a lot at once since they are scattered evenly among all players. So, the price of crystals is at least partly not rarity, but rather how difficult and time-consuming it is to buy a lot at once. If they turned into "currency," they would be more ubiquitous and so easier to find, which would devalue crystals dramatically. An AH, if the game ever gets one, would do the same, making them much more casually available and so probably lowering their value.

It's sad that finding a basic crafting ingredient feels like farming, because it takes so much time and effort.
#15 Oct 23 2010 at 7:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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Sethern79 wrote:
And Im not going to take a Pic on my self to make you happy.


Why not? I believe you and I'd still like to see a screenshot - it'd just help to reaffirm a thought a lot of us have been tossing around here for the past few days regarding gil, the economy and price equilibrium on raw goods.

Several screenshots of players with eight-figure incomes already would take our theories a lot further.

I'd like to see it, and again not because I don't believe you, but because it would help out several theories about the economy.
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#16namasy, Posted: Oct 23 2010 at 7:54 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) knew it is all fake/up him self/bs talker/gil making guru
#17 Oct 23 2010 at 8:23 PM Rating: Good
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Whales wrote:
Sethern79 wrote:
And Im not going to take a Pic on my self to make you happy.


Why not? I believe you and I'd still like to see a screenshot - it'd just help to reaffirm a thought a lot of us have been tossing around here for the past few days regarding gil, the economy and price equilibrium on raw goods.

Several screenshots of players with eight-figure incomes already would take our theories a lot further.

I'd like to see it, and again not because I don't believe you, but because it would help out several theories about the economy.


LOL I achuly just tryed to take one but don't know how to take them. If someone wants to tell me how to do so Ill work on posting one. Sorry but I just don't like to feed trolls. If I can get one taken then host it Ill work on posting it here.

But to tell you the truth I don't see how this is such a big deal. Im sure I am not seting any kind of record here. I know few people in my LS (all crafters) put me to shame when it comes to gil. But if I can get it going ill post one.

Edited, Oct 23rd 2010 10:30pm by Sethern79
#18 Oct 23 2010 at 8:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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Sethern79 wrote:
Whales wrote:
Sethern79 wrote:
And Im not going to take a Pic on my self to make you happy.


Why not? I believe you and I'd still like to see a screenshot - it'd just help to reaffirm a thought a lot of us have been tossing around here for the past few days regarding gil, the economy and price equilibrium on raw goods.

Several screenshots of players with eight-figure incomes already would take our theories a lot further.

I'd like to see it, and again not because I don't believe you, but because it would help out several theories about the economy.


LOL I achuly just tryed to take on but don't know how to take them. If someone wants to tell me how to do so Ill work on posting one. Sorry but I just don't like to feed trolls. If I can get one taken then host it Ill work on posting it here.

But to tell you the truth I don't see how this is such a big deal. Im sure I am not seting any kind of record here. I know few people in my LS (all crafters) put me to shame when it comes to gil. But if I can get it going ill post one.


You're going to have to get the SS from outside the game. Simple method being: Press Print Screen key, open Paint, and paste. The reason you can't use the in-game SS (which is hold Scroll Lock and press Print Screen) is that it hides the interface to take the SS.
#19 Oct 23 2010 at 8:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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Sethern79 wrote:

But to tell you the truth I don't see how this is such a big deal. Im sure I am not seting any kind of record here. I know few people in my LS (all crafters) put me to shame when it comes to gil. But if I can get it going ill post one.



It's not a big deal, but there was a rather good discussion this morning as to the value of gil. We already knew that a six figure income was become quite common, but I'm curious if that's not creeping up into eight figures now. If so, it just goes a long way to confirm several theories we came up with.
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#20 Oct 23 2010 at 9:05 PM Rating: Good
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The system you are implying is called a bartering system and if that were the case it wouldent only be crystals that were traded for other goods. Square Enix pretty well borked the system when they designed a player run economy (all goods bought and sold by players) but also instituted a gil faucet system (quests and missions pay out gil).

One of the biggest problems that faces the economy is that there are plenty of gil faucets (leves, story quests) and not enough gil drains (chocobos, taxes, NPC goods). Now this wouldent be a problem if there was a relatively fixed ammount of gil in the system, much like a real life economy, but because Square Enix anticipated the "Im poor so I'm quitting teh gamez!" they also instituted a method for players to continually gain gil. Both systems do not go hand in hand.

The only fix is to balance out the gil faucets with the gil drains, which is tough to accomplish with a fluctuating population. The reason the real life economy works is because there are haves and have nots, the government doesent continually print money for the have nots. In a MMO which is designed to be "fun" the same concept is not desirable, nobody wants to be poor.

So, yeah, at its current rate the economy is basicly screwed. Expect a impromtu bartering system by PS3 release.
#21 Oct 23 2010 at 9:55 PM Rating: Good
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Ok so last question here how do I post a pic?
#22 Oct 23 2010 at 10:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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Sethern79 wrote:
Ok so last question here how do I post a pic?


I always just put in a link to photobucket pic personally, easiest way.
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#23 Oct 23 2010 at 10:31 PM Rating: Good
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ok Scrached out the name. this is my bank alt but I dont want 100 tells asking for gil.

[IMG]http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/ww220/sethern/seth.png[/IMG]
#24 Oct 23 2010 at 10:43 PM Rating: Decent
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good shot man, that figure looks good,.

sorry for having a go at you, a picture worth 1k words
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#25 Oct 23 2010 at 10:50 PM Rating: Good
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namasy wrote:
good shot man, that figure looks good,.

sorry for having a go at you, a picture worth 1k words

No hard feeling here man. Did not realy post it to prove anything. Just wanted to talk about something thats been on my mind.

Now back to the bater system that a few have talked about. I know that other items do come into play but in most games I have played (Diablo 2 being the best example) 1 or 2 items become the main item people are looking for. I just think that crystals will be this item.

Edited, Oct 24th 2010 12:51am by Sethern79
#26 Oct 23 2010 at 11:29 PM Rating: Good
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Crystals have been driving the economy since day one. It got to the point where the folks in the first LS I joined after CE launch were crying so **** much over the gil I was asking for the gear I was making them that I just started charging them in shards because it was a lot easier for me to figure out a fair value that way. And I wasn't charging them anywhere near common server value when I was charging gil, but they wanted to know 1) CAN YOU MAEK IT?!?!?!) and 2) HOW MUCH?!?!?! and they wanted to know NOW NOW NOW so I just started pulling numbers together from what I had seen of component prices in bazaars.

I decided that one of the best ways to ease my distaste for playing THM as I pushed from rank 16 -> 18 this weekend was to turn it into a shard farming adventure. Through the 25k or so skill points I needed, I managed to pull in just over 700 wind shards in addition to all kids of water and lightning shards. "Farming" dodos and puk hatchlings for not quite two full ranks of skill points brought in easily 210-280k worth of wind shards if I were to sell them. But I'm not going to sell them because I refuse to pay more than 200-250gil/shard and right now wind shards are hard to find below 300.

SE will be adding gil sinks to the game. Of that much you can be sure. And it won't be to curb inflation or to prevent the game from being ruined by the economy. It will just be to give players something to spent their gil on because my sense is that it won't be long before more crafters start charging in shards.
#27 Oct 24 2010 at 12:04 AM Rating: Good
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Sethern79 wrote:
namasy wrote:
good shot man, that figure looks good,.

sorry for having a go at you, a picture worth 1k words

No hard feeling here man. Did not realy post it to prove anything. Just wanted to talk about something thats been on my mind.

Now back to the bater system that a few have talked about. I know that other items do come into play but in most games I have played (Diablo 2 being the best example) 1 or 2 items become the main item people are looking for. I just think that crystals will be this item.

Edited, Oct 24th 2010 12:51am by Sethern79



If the gil based economy tanked right now, then i would say you're right about crystals/shards taking the place of gil. i've even sold some items for x amount of shards, because it's a lot easier to do that than go find the shards you need from a retainer. But the economy has a while to go before it tanks. (I'm thinking people with hundreds of millions of gil being commonplace).

However, if you think about it, crystals/shards are just as big of a fountain as gil is. If you think about how many shards you get from completing leves, it's similar to the gil you get. In a few months, the price of crystals will go down, and they'll eventually being as worthless as gil is.

My bet on what the new currency will be is some form of tradeable guild points. (Think something like the dynamis currency in FFXI). The currency will have to be gained through time invested, and there will have to be a lockout timer to keep someone from farming them 24/7, and the currency will be required for end game progression.

Basically i'm saying that the item that will be worth more than gil, and crystals, isn't actually in the game just yet... But something like it will most likely be. I guess i just think crystals/shards don't have any lasting value. I mean, would you really rather trade 5000 shards for a piece of equipment, or 1 million gil, or simply 3 end game currency pieces that let you pop some NMs for drops. Shards/crystals don't have enough value behind them, and they're too easily obtained to be able to become a currency.
#28 Oct 24 2010 at 12:08 AM Rating: Good
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Aurelius wrote:
Crystals have been driving the economy since day one. It got to the point where the folks in the first LS I joined after CE launch were crying so **** much over the gil I was asking for the gear I was making them that I just started charging them in shards because it was a lot easier for me to figure out a fair value that way. And I wasn't charging them anywhere near common server value when I was charging gil, but they wanted to know 1) CAN YOU MAEK IT?!?!?!) and 2) HOW MUCH?!?!?! and they wanted to know NOW NOW NOW so I just started pulling numbers together from what I had seen of component prices in bazaars.

I decided that one of the best ways to ease my distaste for playing THM as I pushed from rank 16 -> 18 this weekend was to turn it into a shard farming adventure. Through the 25k or so skill points I needed, I managed to pull in just over 700 wind shards in addition to all kids of water and lightning shards. "Farming" dodos and puk hatchlings for not quite two full ranks of skill points brought in easily 210-280k worth of wind shards if I were to sell them. But I'm not going to sell them because I refuse to pay more than 200-250gil/shard and right now wind shards are hard to find below 300.

SE will be adding gil sinks to the game. Of that much you can be sure. And it won't be to curb inflation or to prevent the game from being ruined by the economy. It will just be to give players something to spent their gil on because my sense is that it won't be long before more crafters start charging in shards.


For me its not realy a question of if But when. And realy what will the effect of this be? I mean it seems to me that SE did this to combat RMT. But all RMT will do is start selling items for cash. Again I can go back to Diablo 2 here and you can look at RMT selling soj's rare weapons and all manner of items instead of gold.

What will SE do to stop this? maby they try to cut back the amount of gil you can get but will that help or hurt the game? People being use to geting tuns of gil all the suden get veary small amounts. But crafters who are use to Veary high priced Items are still charging top gil for there items. The pore guy who use to have all the gil he needs can't buy the high priced items that the crafters are selling. And the crafter can';t sell his items. It could take months for the economy to fix its self leaving players fealing ****** off.

This is something I think SE should realy look into befor it gets worse. I know they want a player driven economy but in MMO's the programers realy need to keep some control on the flow of its currency.
#29 Oct 24 2010 at 12:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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ZoosRfun wrote:
Sethern79 wrote:
namasy wrote:
good shot man, that figure looks good,.

sorry for having a go at you, a picture worth 1k words

No hard feeling here man. Did not realy post it to prove anything. Just wanted to talk about something thats been on my mind.

Now back to the bater system that a few have talked about. I know that other items do come into play but in most games I have played (Diablo 2 being the best example) 1 or 2 items become the main item people are looking for. I just think that crystals will be this item.

Edited, Oct 24th 2010 12:51am by Sethern79



If the gil based economy tanked right now, then i would say you're right about crystals/shards taking the place of gil. i've even sold some items for x amount of shards, because it's a lot easier to do that than go find the shards you need from a retainer. But the economy has a while to go before it tanks. (I'm thinking people with hundreds of millions of gil being commonplace).

However, if you think about it, crystals/shards are just as big of a fountain as gil is. If you think about how many shards you get from completing leves, it's similar to the gil you get. In a few months, the price of crystals will go down, and they'll eventually being as worthless as gil is.

My bet on what the new currency will be is some form of tradeable guild points. (Think something like the dynamis currency in FFXI). The currency will have to be gained through time invested, and there will have to be a lockout timer to keep someone from farming them 24/7, and the currency will be required for end game progression.

Basically i'm saying that the item that will be worth more than gil, and crystals, isn't actually in the game just yet... But something like it will most likely be. I guess i just think crystals/shards don't have any lasting value. I mean, would you really rather trade 5000 shards for a piece of equipment, or 1 million gil, or simply 3 end game currency pieces that let you pop some NMs for drops. Shards/crystals don't have enough value behind them, and they're too easily obtained to be able to become a currency.


It is true that Crystals/shards are easy to get. But don't you think that they have a much better system for pulling the them out of the economy than they do gil? If you think about it every crystal/shard you sell is used taking it out of the economy. Gil on the other hand is still there for the most part. its just going from one player to another.

I could see a new currency being added but why do that when they could fix gil and stop it from going down in flames? Gil is a main stay in FF games. If they did something about this now. maby lower the amount of gil you get from leves and put some kind of fast gil sink in to suck up the large amount of gil that is already out there. they could stop the gil bubble from poping and sending FFXIV into its on stock market crash. (sorry i could not help my self with that one!)
#30 Oct 24 2010 at 12:53 AM Rating: Good
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I can't see crystals/shards becoming worthless.

As posted above, players will continue to ern gil and build a massive bank account, but he money doesn't go anywhere.
People will continue to earn gil and then it just changes hands over and over again.

Crystals and Shards are needed by all crafters. Every crystal/shard earned/sold doesn't just trade hands and/or accumulate like gil does. Crafters are using them up to make items/weapons/armor. Crafters will always need crystals/shards, but not everyone will need (or should I say want?) gil if everyone already has it. That's where the potential problem lies....



Edited, Oct 24th 2010 3:02am by Faaeng
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#31 Oct 24 2010 at 2:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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Shards and crystals aren't ever likely to become worthless. Unlike gil, they're consumed on a consistent basis. And the higher rank your DoH class, the more shards you consume. At rank 25, most synths take 20-24 shards each. And it already takes well over 100 synths to advance from one rank to the next. An Iron Haubergeon takes over 250 shards to convert raw materials through all the various stages to the final product. And when people cap out one DoH profession, they'll likely start another. And then another. And then another. And from what we're seeing so far, the supply of shards and crystals is largely a constant. When you kill a mob and it drops shards, it will either drop three of a particular type of shard or six. Other sources of shards are available but they're somewhat limited. Certain shards don't see a ton of use. Water and ice shards aren't frequently required for the "gear" DoH classes and even the need for lightning shards drops off once you're into the cotton phase of weaving.

Barring rare gear drops and/or crafting components as the game progresses, SE has clued in that one of the best ways to keep RMT from ruining your game is to make it so that nothing ever seems so unattainable that stepping outside the rules to get it starts to seem like an attractive idea. The highest rank mobs I kill right now are in the low 20s. The highest grade nodes I gather from are grade 3. And yet I have direct access to any/all materials I need to advance virtually any given DoH profession into the mid-high 30s. Shards are always the limiting factor in what I can do to progress my DoH classes, not materials. I've churned out a ton of iron components while skilling up armorer for the last 5-6 ranks and I've got more iron nuggets now than when I started, and those result strictly from the iron ore/iron sand I get from doing rank 20 mining leves. Leather up to buffalo can be farmed from mobs at or below rank 20. Velveteen cloth (rank 25+ weaver mainstay) is made with cotton yarn which is made from cotton bolls which can be farmed off a number of mobs in the rank 9-13 range.

As much as people might complain about needing components from rank 21+ DoH classes other than the one used to assemble the final product, SE has done a pretty good job of making sure that if you want it, you can farm the base mats for it and either make it yourself with time and patience invested into the appropriate DoH class(es) or pass those mats off to other people to make for you. And when you can gather the mats and farm the shards yourself, whether you make the gear or not you're being presented with an option to bypass the need for stacks of gil altogether. Unless you insist on repairing your rank 37 gear at the NPC, your average player can get by on far less gil than they can earn if they're willing to invest the time.
#32 Oct 24 2010 at 2:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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Right now the demand for shards & crystals is very high.. It's a bit of a crafting craze compared to how things will eventually be. Some will hit the cap, and then craft less intensely.. Some that aren't overly committed will stop. Unless SE changes something, I can't see how, long term, the demand does anything but dip a little.

Gil however, only stands to increase in value. We have an incomplete game, void of gil sinks.. However, when they slap an event on us with a 10 million gil entry, that can change a whole lot. I think short term crystals and shards are the hot commodities, but long term gil will hold more value. I hope it doesn't come close to the value it had in XI, but we'll just have to see.

I don't take credit for this quote, but don't be a prisoner of the moment.

Edited, Oct 24th 2010 4:50am by Coyohma
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#33 Oct 24 2010 at 3:03 AM Rating: Good
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Coyohma wrote:
Right now the demand for shards & crytals is very high.. It's a bit of a crafting craze compared to how things will eventually be. Some will hit the cap, and then craft less intensely.. Some that aren't overly committed will stop. Unless SE changes something, I can't see how, long term, the demand does anything but dip a little.

Gil however, only stands to increase in value. We have an incomplete game, void of gil sinks.. However, when they slap an event on us with a 10 million gil entry, that can change a whole lot. I think short term crystals and gil are the hot commodities, but long term gil will hold value. I hope it doesn't come close to the value it had in XI, but we'll just have to see.



I don't see them putting any kind of massive gil sinks as barriers to content people want to take part in on a regular basis. The only reason crafters are rich right now is because they're charging an arm and a leg for everything due to a shortage of competition. I can see them adding all kinds of fluff things that cost a fortune but don't impact gameplay. For all the "rich" players in the game right now, I know a lot of people who are flat broke. All their gil has gone to making the rich players rich and repairing the bronze haubergeon they're using on their rank 12 archer.
#34 Oct 24 2010 at 3:11 AM Rating: Good
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I understand your perspective, and in part agree, but for example Dynamis was a 1 mil entry; who's to say they won't scale that number to an appropriate amount given the gil in the game?
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#35 Oct 24 2010 at 3:23 AM Rating: Good
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Coyohma wrote:
I understand your perspective, and in part agree, but for example Dynamis was a 1 mil entry; who's to say they won't scale that number to an appropriate amount given the gil in the game?


They might, but it would be contrary to the casual appeal of the game. I know a lot of "hardcore" players that are flat broke and the only reason they can afford to repair their gear is because they sell all of the shards they farm. Despite the reduction in retainer sales tax from selling your wares in the appropriate ward, there is still hundreds of thousands if not millions of gil being sucked out of the economy every hour. The main thing right now is that the people who make are getting all of the gil from the people who use. NPC repair vendors are also sucking hundreds of thousands/millions of gil out of the economy every hour. It's not uncommon for people to have 1-5 million gil sitting on their character, but we see the people with several times that amount and it's easy to forget that they're the exception, not the rule.
#36 Oct 24 2010 at 3:36 AM Rating: Excellent
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Part of this is just because of the market system; it's hard to know what the going rate for a particular shard is, because the game won't actually tell you what it's trading at (and gathering data yourself is annoying and time-consuming). Shards have immediate utility for the crafter, especially if they're trying to grind out rank.

But shards aren't a good replacement for gil, in the end, because shards (and crystals) don't have utility for people who aren't crafting. Crafters don't mind thinking in terms of shards because of the immediate utility, but the gladiator who does nothing with his shards has to think in terms of conversions.

All that said, there's little chance gil will get deprecated so early. Right now, repair isn't a significant problem because most people have fairly low-level equipment. But when you're rank 40, and you have some pieces of armor that only a rank 40 leatherworker can repair and some pieces that only a rank 40 armorer can repair and other pieces that only a rank 40 goldsmith can repair... take it from me, leveling the various crafts to 10 isn't too hard, but 20 is another thing entirely, and I wouldn't expect to see broad-spectrum crafters up to 40 in two crafts for a long, long time. Maybe your linkshell is big enough so that you'll have access to crafters with all of those things? ...except, of course, when half of them are grinding in Gridania, two of them are managing their markets in Ul'dah, and the weaver's on vacation until next Tuesday.

You'll need gil for that situation, and there's not much you can do to prevent it from happening eventually. Even I'm being careful to try to hold my gear down to the level that I can keep maintained, but for one or two pieces that's just not going to be anytime soon, and it's only going to get worse as I get better stuff...
#37 Oct 24 2010 at 5:22 AM Rating: Excellent
4 posts
Gil sinks, huh?

What if SE put in a shop that lets you purchase temporary items from the field with gil?
Kind of like the temp items that are in FF11. Maybe 1 or 2 purchases a day from nomad moogles or something.
Temp items in FF11 don't break the game at all in Abyssea.

What if you could buy Regeneration for Anima. 1+ Anima an hour regen for 8hours would be worth 20k for a lot of folks, and since it's regen instead of an instant 8, you still keep Anima discipline. (Such as it is.)

How about lowering the cost to repair stuff and putting more repair npcs in the field. That would probably get more players to stop running around in red and yellow gear damage.

"Bribe". LV5 goldsmithing very long range combat action skill equitable by all. 1000 gil per lvl of (Non-NM)mob to depop it. (not too useful now, but when more dangerous missions come around, some mobs you just want out of the way.)

(had a few more beers...)

GilNM like BCNMs but you pay gil to get in for a chance at uncommon equipment.

GilLeve once a week extra local leves you can do but you can keep the item(s) you make.

(feelin Krunk!)

**** lingerie merchant!

Dancing lessons (So you can learn /Dance1 or /Dance23)

Motels for cyberin'!

Rentable field retainers.(They charge to come out to you, but go back to their stall after you're finished)

Rentable Delivery retainers. They operate in a field area and you can someone a pc's delivery retainer if they have a perishable you want. Dang, that made me hungry! And it's too late to call for a pizza!

Swiss Cheese!

#38 Oct 24 2010 at 5:40 AM Rating: Good
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also as people get higher, there will be more people paying the really high repair prices to the npc, and money will slowly be drained out.

At the moment though, alot more money is coming into the economy then is going out, but with a new game, they probably wanted it to be easier to get that gear out there, so people dont quit because there is no higher gear out there.

If they have lots of money, things can be moved around the populous very quickly, and leveling up happens, thus getting the gear out there in the first place.

After a couple months, they will then step in (like they continued to do in FFXI) and adjust the economy. Gil will eventually have a value, but until that day, I will continue to hand everything I have (including gil) to the crafters of our LS, so that they can make us the gear we are demanding as we hit that level. I am a botanist, so I supply the woodworker, weaver, and alchemist in the shell, and in turn I get all my gear for free. When the economy starts to mature, and balance out, then I will start worrying about myself, which by then, I will have put myself in a good position to make money, and thus, will still not be worried.

Economies usually take about 6 months to level out, and while I strongly believe some really nice gil sinks need to be introduced, the economy is most likely going to be fine, and work under a gil system still.
#39 Oct 24 2010 at 2:34 PM Rating: Good
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My suggestion for a Gil sink would be to have an option to either use anima or buy a teleport. But the teleports would be priced like Chocobos, the more people that port to a destination the more expensive it becomes.
#40 Oct 24 2010 at 3:38 PM Rating: Good
42 posts
we already have the currency; CRYSTA
what we need is a way to trade say, 10 crysta per mill gil? that would make it possible to play another month at the paymenth of a good dosis of gil :P they could have an event like that once in a while where those are tradable.
#41 Oct 24 2010 at 3:45 PM Rating: Good
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I've also thought about the massive amount of gill in FFXIV. However, gil is not the only "currency" in the game. Now Gil may be the BASIC currency, I see that there are 5 other Beastman currency in game but I have yet to see any. Now maybe its this beastman currency that will buy you all the very rare gear with outstanding stats. I'm sure all the crafted equipment will be the "standard" of the game. So, maybe the beastman currency will be a pain in the *** to get? I dunno? Has anyone gotten any yet, if it even has a use yet idk. Hopefully, something gets adjusted somewhere if that's not the case.

Chow
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#42 Oct 24 2010 at 6:36 PM Rating: Good
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Yes, got some Beastman Currency from a faction leve.
Almost vendored it until I actually read the description.

Reminded me of when I tossed two stacks of Beastman Seals in FFXI to make room for some crystals in FFXI, hahaha!^^

BTW: If crystals were sold at a horrendous price at a vendor (just like NPC repairs are overpriced), they
could fix the current "crystal - inflation" and drain the game of a lot of money. Not a good idea?

Edited, Oct 24th 2010 8:40pm by Rinsui
#43 Oct 24 2010 at 6:43 PM Rating: Good
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Beastcoins from Faction leves? Ok, well if that's how they are all obtained then I'm guessing you could only accumulate 1 of each type every 36 hours if you are lucky? Now thats a pretty hard to come by currency I would think... thinking you would first need 100 faction points to even do 1 Faction leve. So maybe there's a little potential to stand out from the crowds for the hardcore players. But, I guess first there still has to be an outstanding use to the currency. Dunno.

Chow
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#44 Oct 24 2010 at 10:14 PM Rating: Good
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Rinsui wrote:
Yes, got some Beastman Currency from a faction leve.
Almost vendored it until I actually read the description.

Reminded me of when I tossed two stacks of Beastman Seals in FFXI to make room for some crystals in FFXI, hahaha!^^

BTW: If crystals were sold at a horrendous price at a vendor (just like NPC repairs are overpriced), they
could fix the current "crystal - inflation" and drain the game of a lot of money. Not a good idea?

Edited, Oct 24th 2010 8:40pm by Rinsui


Im not so sure this would work. As many have pointed out crystals are not hard to come by. Now if they nerfed the crystal drops and then sold them at a vender for say.. 500 for shards and 5000 gil for crystals we would see a lot of gil pulled out of the game.

I never realy gave the Beastman Currency a thought. I have come acrost a few. I traded alot in FFXI for the seals. I wounder if the same will be true for Beastman coins in FFXIV.

I would love to see some gil sinks come into the game that are not needed but are some what usfull. Like someone else posted 1+ Anima an hour regen. I would buy this stuff up like mad. And it would pull a lot of gil out of the game.

I gess the real problem atm is there is just nothing to do with all the gil you get. I hope this will change soon but I think we still have another month or 2 of gill being way to easy to get. So evon when they do put things like this in the game it will take a good bit of time befor it hase an effect on the state of the game.
#45 Oct 24 2010 at 11:45 PM Rating: Good
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It's been said in some form or another but I'll mention in more detail.

Shards and crystals are what keep the economy in check. DoW farm shards by leveling up. They sell those shards and those mats to DoH who make armor/stuff and sell back to the DoW classes. While each DOH uses different mats from different mobs, they all need shards and crystals. So when a DoH makes that new shinny piece of gear and the DoW blows all his gil for it, how does he get that gil back? By charging higher prices on shards. And the DOH can afford it because they overcharged by 500% on that last piece of gear they sold. So now the DoW classes are richer and can afford more gear, so DoH grinds ranks faster eating more shards making DoW richer. Than the new shinny comes out and DoW blows all their gil again, making DoH rich again, till the cycle repeats....

Shards keep the whole system in check. Gil's only real value to a crafter is in it's power to purchase more shards, and in a non-crafter's eyes the value is in buying finished materials. However, the real winner is the tax system because with each transaction gil is leaving the game. The smart people and the VERY rich ones, are the people who form support groups. DoH are supported by DoL and DoW and turn out completed products for no cost of gil because they don't have to buy anything, and the DoL and DoW of those groups don't have to buy anything either and can save all their gil form leves and resale of gear.

Cartel's are where it's @ in this game. Find a shell that has all the crafts supported by high level DoW and DoL and I'll show you players with 20-30mil+ gil.

For the rest of us, we trade shards for gil, and gil for shards....I'm a 26 ARM and i'm ******* broke because i have to keep buying shards, and the richest guy in my shell sells shards all day.
#46 Oct 25 2010 at 12:26 AM Rating: Good
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While Gil doesn't seem to be as big an issue in this game as it was in XI I think the sole reason why people are able to sell shards for so much is because

A) the game is still new and everyone is crafting, supply and demand here, supply is low demand is high and

B) the current retainers system kinda prevents the players from setting a price. I believe once the search function is set in place the price will drop.

It's mostly A though, everyone knows it's easy enough to make money in an MMO while it's new. Because everyone needs everything and everyone is buying. All that crap that drops from random monsters outside city walls is selling. That won't be the case in a couple of months down the road.
#47 Oct 25 2010 at 3:09 AM Rating: Good
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CupDeNoodles wrote:
While Gil doesn't seem to be as big an issue in this game as it was in XI I think the sole reason why people are able to sell shards for so much is because

A) the game is still new and everyone is crafting, supply and demand here, supply is low demand is high and

B) the current retainers system kinda prevents the players from setting a price. I believe once the search function is set in place the price will drop.

It's mostly A though, everyone knows it's easy enough to make money in an MMO while it's new. Because everyone needs everything and everyone is buying. All that crap that drops from random monsters outside city walls is selling. That won't be the case in a couple of months down the road.


What about the crap ton of gil that comes into the game every day from leves? And its going to take quite a bit of time befor all the crafters hit max and are no longer looking to buy shards/crystals like they are crack.

Lets say this all slows down 6 months from now there will be people pushing over 100+ mil. Prices of all gear could be set to insane prices becuse everyone hase a crap ton of gil. Now a new player comes into this new economy where everyone is rich but they do not have the same option we did to make all that gil. The new player is going to feel veary over welmed trying to make the gil they need to buythe gear they need to lvl.

This alone could be a big kick in the face to geting new people to play this game. Think about the PS3 launch and all the new people from that. It will be FFXI NA launch all over again only this time Its SE who did it to us and not RMT.

At the rate things are going I realy don't think things are going to just calm down and fix its self.
#48 Oct 25 2010 at 5:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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With all this currency floating around you'd think price of gear would increase but undercutting is so rampant that prices of non-rare gear either remains at a affordable price or continues to drop in price. One thing people fail to account for is the crafters solely levelling on local leves, they use no shards and slowly creep up in levels; deflating any worth in whatever craft level the servers local leve population is at. The argument that people will stop crafting once it gets slow becomes less valid; there will always be people doing locals since it costs them nothing and there's always the motivation of self repair.

Desirable gear will only be expensive if it's hard to get; with craft level being the major limitation in hard to get gear at the moment and the forseeable future (pending NM drops/rare loot) then it's only a matter of time before other crafters catch up and undercut the crap out of that piece of gear. This is especially true in this game where every person basically dabbles in craft.

Edited, Oct 25th 2010 7:05am by sylph19
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