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#1 Oct 26 2010 at 3:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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The Tradecraft market ward in Limsa Lominsa in Besaid is full. You can't summon a retainer there right now.

So... what's going to happen when they start selling extra retainers? And how am I supposed to use the "right" market ward now? I checked a lot of them, and yes, most of them were selling shards/crystals and the other stuff that belongs there.

I got rated down last time I mentioned this, but I'm gonna anyway. My daughter compared the retainers to Maple Story and she's 100% friggin' correct. There's limited space in each area, you have to check everyone one by one, and there's even the little stalls. Unbelievable.

P.S. inb4 "they already announced they're gonna fix everything!" as if it already happened or something.
Sorry, I'm usually not one to start a complaint thread but this is stupid.
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#2Jefro420, Posted: Oct 26 2010 at 3:46 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Maybe this is obvious, but just either go to another city, choose another ward and take the tax hit, or sell items that belong in the ward that you ultimately end up selling in.
#3 Oct 26 2010 at 3:51 PM Rating: Good
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I don't know if people noticed but there seems to be a second area that could be another entrance to a ward in each city.

HOWEVER - At this point I wish they would just implement an AH -in addition to- the market wards. If the tax rate for things sold in the appropriate ward was lower than the AH rate I think everyone could be happy. Also people will still have limited AH slots so they will probably want to sell on the AH and in the wards.

I used to think the wards could work given time, but I don't think people will be happy till there is at least the option of an AH.
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#4 Oct 26 2010 at 3:51 PM Rating: Decent
Shassa wrote:


So... what's going to happen when they start selling extra retainers?


Good point. They better have a contingency when someone decides to pay an extra $40 a month to put 25 retainers for their 15 billion crystals in one ward.

Shassa wrote:
you have to check everyone one by one,


They did announce they'd be adding a search function for the market wards.
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#5 Oct 26 2010 at 3:51 PM Rating: Good
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Well yeah, I did use a different ward, but there's much larger issues to worry about here. Soon, a significant portion of the player base will have two or three retainers. If you think everything is a clusterf*** now, just wait.

It is kinda funny though, it's seriously packed in there.
It's like, standing room only. (nyuk nyuk nyuk)
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#6 Oct 26 2010 at 3:58 PM Rating: Decent
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It is unfortunate that you can't setup your retainer where you want. Honestly though, What are the chances that someone would pick your retainer over a sea of others in a full ward to buy what you're selling?

Like the above poster said, either move to another city to sell (clearly the city your in is currently at max supply = lower demand = less money for you) or sell in a different ward (hate hate hate when people do this).

Until SE puts in searchable wards I think this will be the sad state of the market wards.
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#7 Oct 26 2010 at 3:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jefro420 wrote:
Maybe this is obvious, but just either go to another city, choose another ward and take the tax hit, or sell items that belong in the ward that you ultimately end up selling in.

The market changes that are coming won't fix the issue you're seeing.


Counter point: Let's assume that between the people who only have the one retainer and the people who have three or more retainers, that on average, there are two retainers per player.

Now remember, you CAN'T buy new retainers yet, and the OP is saying that the market wards on his server are ALREADY filling up with one retainer per person.

Double that, and tell me what's going to happen.

Better question: Does SE want this game to be popular? Sell a lot of copies? It's only at 350k right now, what happens if that increases and those people buy retainers too?

It's fair to say that SE's goal is that:
- A lot of people play FFXIV
- Everyone loves the market wards and uses them a lot
- Everyone spends money to buy more retainers

I mean, this is the best case scenario for SE, right? More players = more money, more retainers = more money, and if everyone stopped asking them for an AH and accepted their market wards as the awesome thing that SE wants them to be and wants us to think they are, that, in their eyes, is all perfect, right?

So what happens if SE gets their wish and more people subscribe and more people buy retainers and everyone uses the market wards and crams their thousands of retainers in there? It will just make it even worse; more crowded, more lag, more server stress...

FFXIV has fewer subscribers than FFXI does, and is already hitting limits on how many retainers can be placed. What happens if the subscription numbers goes up? What happens when people start buying more retainers?
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#8 Oct 26 2010 at 4:08 PM Rating: Good
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also I think it is hilarious that this game is making me talk tax policy!
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#9 Oct 26 2010 at 4:35 PM Rating: Good
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This is crazy stupid.

that is all.
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#10 Oct 26 2010 at 4:44 PM Rating: Good
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I'd suspect there's 1 of 2 reasons they are staggering its implimentation.

1.) To adjust it on the fly and make sure by completion its perfect.
2.) They're unsure and feel they may need to scrap it before it reaches completion.

It's unforunate because we didn't get nearly as much time testing wards as we did with the other features. So like it or not, we are testing this piece of the game for them still.
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#11 Oct 26 2010 at 4:48 PM Rating: Good
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Olorinus the Vile wrote:
I don't know if people noticed but there seems to be a second area that could be another entrance to a ward in each city.


Mog houses! ...please?
#12 Oct 26 2010 at 4:59 PM Rating: Decent
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andywool wrote:
Olorinus the Vile wrote:
I don't know if people noticed but there seems to be a second area that could be another entrance to a ward in each city.


Mog houses! ...please?


Word
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#13 Oct 26 2010 at 5:04 PM Rating: Good
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Part of it is that hardly anyone is in Gridania right now. There are three cities full of wards but only two really have a lot right now. It's also possible that Ishgard could have its own market wards, although that could potentially make things worse if everyone flocks there.

Part of it is that I disagree with the OP that people are selling things correctly in the tradecraft ward. I'd say a third of the retainers in the first two to four wards in every city are selling 0-2 items that match the ward itself and 8-10 that belong somewhere else. Often I'll see an entire bazaar full of things that belong somewhere else specifically (like someone selling nothing but vegetables, spices, and fish in the battlecraft ward). Last night I looked through tons of bazaars selling mob-dropped junk in the battlecraft ward looking for a shield, and I finally found someone selling shields in the glovers ward. Presumably he'd have used the battlecraft ward if it wasn't full of people who don't belong there.

Part of it is that crystals and shards simply need to be given their own ward. Almost everyone in the game is interested in either buying or selling crystals, and they quite honestly clog up every ward, but the tradecraft ward in particular has a problem trying to provide for two of the biggest markets (tools and crystals). This is part of a bigger problem overall, with things like the cobblers ward being far too specific (not only are people unlikely to specialize but there are simply less footwear recipes overall than others) while others like the clothiers ward are too broad to be particularly useful (one of the most common recipe types for several crafts and everything from robes to full plate in the same place).

Part of it is actually that we can't have more than one retainer right now though. Yes doubling the number will increase the load on the more popular wards, but part of the reason people are in the wrong places right now are that they have more than one thing to sell. This is especially true for weavers, tanners, and armorers but also for blacksmiths, goldsmiths, and everyone who's just trying to sell their best mob drops. When they have two or three retainers, they're not going to place them in the same ward, they're going to place them one in each of two or three wards. A smart goldsmith, for instance, isn't going to try and flood the market with twice as many scepters and staves, but sell the same number of thaumaturgy weapons and open a second shop in the jewellers ward to sell some earrings and necklaces to a different target. Similarly, a non-crafter may just drop their retainer in the most popular ward to sell claws, hides, and various vegetables since he or she isn't really getting much benefit from moving to a ward for only 2-4 items, but when they can have three retainers, they can sell more of each type in the right ward and may leave the battlecraft through tradecraft wards. And so on.

And of course part of it is just that the market ward system is a huge pain as it is now and the only way anyone can trade or make money is to use the horrible system. It's bad, everyone hates it, and there's not a lot of incentive to use it "properly" for people who don't like it or want it to succeed anyway. I definitely agree it reminds me of the horrible masses of player shops in games like Maple Story or Ragnarok Online that I never browsed because it would take hours just to find something I might need in the mess.

I do like the idea of more personal player run shops though, and having something that would work and not be a copy-paste of the same auction house every MMO has had for the last almost-decade now. Unfortunately the market wards are not even close to such a functioning system right now, but hopefully they will make the changes we need to have something both unique and good. The search system will be a step in the right direction. Hopefully they'll also make tweaks to the existing situations such as making more logical ward distinctions, more reason to be in the right place, etc. I personally would like the ability to know who retainers belong to, so that you might be able to contact people who sell things you want (a list of buyers available to retainers' masters would be nice for similar reasons).

I've gone off on a weird tangent now though, so I'll stop. I mostly just wanted to point out that additional retainers may also help the situation, not just hurt it because more retainers = more crowding.
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#14 Oct 26 2010 at 5:19 PM Rating: Decent
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Shassa wrote:
P.S. inb4 "they already announced they're gonna fix everything!" as if it already happened or something.
Sorry, I'm usually not one to start a complaint thread but this is stupid.

For the record, I don't think you can inb4 your own OP.

On a serious note, while I don't think any of the changes in the works are going to alleviate this problem, I would say that there is pretty much a 100% guarantee that Square Enix will eventually have to change the cap or implement more wards. Simply because, as you said, shortly after they allow people to buy more retainers, the system will be nigh on unusable from congestion. Square Enix may not respond often or well to player input, but this is something they just simply will not be able to ignore, especially if the servers start catching fire from constant 100% load.
#15 Oct 26 2010 at 5:28 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
What happens if the subscription numbers goes up?




Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha...........
Off to buy some dog food.
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#16 Oct 26 2010 at 5:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm not playing yet ... but this sounds like 1999 UO ... I think I'll wait and let FFXIV simmer in it's juices for a while.
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#17 Oct 26 2010 at 5:35 PM Rating: Good
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Hulan wrote:
Shassa wrote:
P.S. inb4 "they already announced they're gonna fix everything!" as if it already happened or something.
Sorry, I'm usually not one to start a complaint thread but this is stupid.

For the record, I don't think you can inb4 your own OP.


But don't you see? By being the OP, I've guaranteed my inb4! It's brilliant!
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#18 Oct 26 2010 at 5:43 PM Rating: Decent
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Back to the original post... Are you sure you dont already have your retainer summoned in a different ward or city? I got the same message when i forgot i already had my retainer out in a ward
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#19 Oct 26 2010 at 5:53 PM Rating: Good
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jtully wrote:
Back to the original post... Are you sure you dont already have your retainer summoned in a different ward or city? I got the same message when i forgot i already had my retainer out in a ward


I made very, very sure so I didn't make a fool of myself by posting misinformation. I even went back out and asked a couple others to try to move their retainers there. They couldn't, either. Good question, though.
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#20 Oct 26 2010 at 6:31 PM Rating: Good
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This is exactly why market wards are a bad idea for the primary way to trade items among players.

They can't just increase the number of allowable retainers per ward, because that will pose a lot of performance problems.

They can't add more market wards because then the system becomes too complex and therefore extremely tedious to look for items or a ward to put your bazaar in.

Allowing more retainers and getting more subscriptions, as covered, only worsens the problem.

Market wards would be a great secondary way to sell items along an AH, but is bad in almost every way if it's the only way players can sell items.

I guess nobody at SE really sat down to think about it.
#21 Oct 26 2010 at 6:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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Olorinus the Vile wrote:
At this point I wish they would just implement an AH -in addition to- the market wards.


A thousand times yes! Although I have a feeling that will be the inscription upon my tombstone (or maybe FFXIV's! haha).
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/-------------------------------------------------------------------\
|---- Beneath this mossy stone lies Kane, ----------------|
|---- Who died within the prime of youth. ------------------|
|---- So much he loses for such little gain: -----------------|
|---- He who shuns auctions, favouring mass booths. ---|

/\\\\//\/\\\\\///\/__________________/\___________////\\\//////
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#22 Oct 26 2010 at 7:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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Wolfums wrote:
This is exactly why market wards are a bad idea for the primary way to trade items among players.

They can't just increase the number of allowable retainers per ward, because that will pose a lot of performance problems.

They can't add more market wards because then the system becomes too complex and therefore extremely tedious to look for items or a ward to put your bazaar in.

Allowing more retainers and getting more subscriptions, as covered, only worsens the problem.

Market wards would be a great secondary way to sell items along an AH, but is bad in almost every way if it's the only way players can sell items.

I guess nobody at SE really sat down to think about it.


The Tsukiji Fish Market, or similar markets, are probably the inspiration for this system. It's basically a giant warehouse full of people selling assorted seafood. Mostly fish, but also squid, eel, etc. It allows the buyer to go to vendors, inspect their goods, make deals, and build relationships with the sellers because you see them regularly and eventually you start working out better deals over time if you're a regular customer. For those not familiar with fish markets, perhaps a flea market would be a good equivalent; lots of people selling lots of things in one giant building. It's a great social opportunity on top of shopping.

My guess is that the devs thought that this would be a spectacular feature in a game, compared to a faceless menu system that is the auction house.

What they failed to realize was:

- You lose the social aspect and the ability to make deals with a retainer. Sure, your retainer might get recognized over time as "The one who has great prices on skins", but you can't really socialize or haggle with a retainer.

- A giant warehouse full of merchants may be a great idea, but a tiny crowded room full of merchants is terrible. Go to your local flea market and picture what it would look like if all of the vendors there crowded into your living room.

- It's one thing to see someone's wares all laid out and know at a glance if they have what you want. It's another matter to have to manually "ask" each retainer what they're selling.

Think of how often you buy ANYTHING IRL. Anything at all. Soda, fast food, groceries, video games, anything. Now imagine if all of those vendors were crammed into one building, and you had to ask people what they were selling one at a time.

I'm not sayng the idea is altogether terrible, but it can't be relied upon for primary trading. Think of how many times in FFXI you had to quickly run to the AH for something; say Silent Oil/Prism Powder or Shihei/Ammo. How patient is your party really going to be if it takes you 15-20 minutes to find what you need "really quickly"?
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#23 Oct 26 2010 at 7:25 PM Rating: Good
Olorinus the Vile wrote:
I don't know if people noticed but there seems to be a second area that could be another entrance to a ward in each city.

HOWEVER - At this point I wish they would just implement an AH -in addition to- the market wards. If the tax rate for things sold in the appropriate ward was lower than the AH rate I think everyone could be happy. Also people will still have limited AH slots so they will probably want to sell on the AH and in the wards.

I used to think the wards could work given time, but I don't think people will be happy till there is at least the option of an AH.


I think this is the best option. I like the idea of the market wards but the execution has been poo. Maybe if the AH only sold finished goods like the auction houses in rl (I'm assuming, never seen one on tv that sold ores or lumber) and the wards only sold mats? That would clear the wards out a bit...also it would be cool if there were live auctions with a bunch of ppl with little numbered paddles bidding on a sword Smiley: tongue
#24 Oct 26 2010 at 7:44 PM Rating: Good
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
The Tsukiji Fish Market, or similar markets, are probably the inspiration for this system. It's basically a giant warehouse full of people selling assorted seafood. Mostly fish, but also squid, eel, etc. It allows the buyer to go to vendors, inspect their goods, make deals, and build relationships with the sellers because you see them regularly and eventually you start working out better deals over time if you're a regular customer. For those not familiar with fish markets, perhaps a flea market would be a good equivalent; lots of people selling lots of things in one giant building. It's a great social opportunity on top of shopping.

My guess is that the devs thought that this would be a spectacular feature in a game, compared to a faceless menu system that is the auction house.


They'll most likely add an auction house, as if I'm not mistaken, the AH building and NPCs already exist.

The devs probably thought that market wards were acceptable for closed beta test, and they probably were. But then some non-developer saw the shiny gr4f1x, thought the game was nearly finished, and made them release early to compete with Cata, GW2 and SWTOR.
#25 Oct 26 2010 at 8:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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I think this is the best option. I like the idea of the market wards but the execution has been poo. Maybe if the AH only sold finished goods like the auction houses in rl (I'm assuming, never seen one on tv that sold ores or lumber) and the wards only sold mats?


I like where you're going with this.

A full-on auction house couldn't exist with full-on market wards because the market wards would simply shrivel and die... and I think it's safe to assume that SE wants the market wards to be a big part of this game.

This kind of solution though would give purpose to both the AH and market wards... I would like very much for SE to consider something like this.
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#26 Oct 26 2010 at 8:09 PM Rating: Good
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Thayos wrote:
Quote:
I think this is the best option. I like the idea of the market wards but the execution has been poo. Maybe if the AH only sold finished goods like the auction houses in rl (I'm assuming, never seen one on tv that sold ores or lumber) and the wards only sold mats?


I like where you're going with this.

A full-on auction house couldn't exist with full-on market wards because the market wards would simply shrivel and die... and I think it's safe to assume that SE wants the market wards to be a big part of this game.

This kind of solution though would give purpose to both the AH and market wards... I would like very much for SE to consider something like this.



I just don't think this would work either though to be honest. People would still cram tons of useless items into the wrong places and it would take just as long to find any materials. The only way it would *possibly* work is if the game itself automatically sorted retainers into the correct wards, and if a player could post a retainer in every ward from the start without having to pay real life money.


But of course even if all these changes were implemented flawlessly, you'd still wind up with a craped hallway full of copy/paste npc's that sell a little of this and a little of that, where with an AH you could just get it all at once on a nice convenient list.

Edited, Oct 26th 2010 10:11pm by mistrik
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#27bigalohelper, Posted: Oct 26 2010 at 8:10 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) You're not seeing this, your welcome.
#28 Oct 26 2010 at 8:12 PM Rating: Decent
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It seems you can get "kicked" from a ward too. Not sure how it happens, but probably after you've had your retainer in a ward for a while it "hides" your retainer. What the worst part of it is: It doesn't tell you it has happened until you go back to the ward it was in and find out it's not there and you can't summon it in that ward (yet if you check the Retainer menu in the Main Menu it will say it is in that ward).

I'd be OK with this if it just "closed shop" and let me summon it with the bell again. If I'm away from the city my Retainer is set up in for a long time, it's not only not selling or seeking items for me anymore, I can't utilize it in anyway until I go back and "reset" it.
#29 Oct 26 2010 at 8:13 PM Rating: Decent
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Thayos wrote:
I like where you're going with this.

A full-on auction house couldn't exist with full-on market wards because the market wards would simply shrivel and die... and I think it's safe to assume that SE wants the market wards to be a big part of this game.

This kind of solution though would give purpose to both the AH and market wards... I would like very much for SE to consider something like this.


If the AH works like it does in FFXI, it won't kill off market wards.
#30 Oct 26 2010 at 8:16 PM Rating: Decent
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A while ago, I made a suggestion for modifying the Retainer system to be functional by making Retainers autonomous, in the Feedback Forum. What truly bothers me about the Market Ward system is that I see so much potential in it, absolutely none of which is being tapped. On this thread alone, I have seen suggestions that would make it much more useful without destroying the core game play mechanic, while other suggestions have given me more ideas for possible implementations that could have been used that would have been so similar, but so drastically more enjoyable to use. The system, in my mind, is not flawed so much as it doesn't have any vision; someone very smart proposed an interesting system, and gave it to someone very uninspired to implement it.

I agree with Thayos in that Asura's suggestion of a joint operation between AH and Market Wards may be the simplest solution at this point, while preserving the Market Wards as a pivotal force in game play. Although, to be honest, some more unorthodox suggestions would take just as little time to implement, just because an AH is popular, does not make it easy to make. Unfortunately, a lot of good ideas, from other posters and floating around my own head, are not feasible since Square Enix is not in the practice of abandoning content. Something like increasing the floorspace of the Wards and creating dynamically loaded stalls with wears displayed (very possible if the system had been built for it from the ground up) to emulate more closely a flea market style trading environment isn't likely to happen, as interesting as it could be (with caveats of course). I think in the end, we might just have to resign ourselves to at best the same old AH system we've seen before, at worst, nothing new.

Edited, Oct 26th 2010 10:28pm by Hulan
#31 Oct 26 2010 at 8:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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If the AH works like it does in FFXI, it won't kill off market wards.


Honestly asking, why do you think this?

Personally I would rather have an AH than market wards (and it's not even close), but as another poster said, SE has demonstrated time and time again that it's not interested in abandoning content -- even if it's content that people don't really like.
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#32 Oct 26 2010 at 8:29 PM Rating: Good
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Thayos wrote:
Quote:
If the AH works like it does in FFXI, it won't kill off market wards.


Honestly asking, why do you think this?

Personally I would rather have an AH than market wards (and it's not even close), but as another poster said, SE has demonstrated time and time again that it's not interested in abandoning content -- even if it's content that people don't really like.


People are not going to list expensive or slow selling items over and over on an AH if there's an auction fee or if there's a limit on how many items you can sell.

Bazaars still thrived in FFXI despite there being an AH. Of course, nobody sold common crafting mats or items through a bazaar, but they still existed.
#33 Oct 26 2010 at 8:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Wolfums wrote:
Thayos wrote:
I like where you're going with this.

A full-on auction house couldn't exist with full-on market wards because the market wards would simply shrivel and die... and I think it's safe to assume that SE wants the market wards to be a big part of this game.

This kind of solution though would give purpose to both the AH and market wards... I would like very much for SE to consider something like this.


If the AH works like it does in FFXI, it won't kill off market wards.


With a full function Auction House retainers won't be good for anything but extra storage since it would defeat the entire purpose of the Wards. If you could put any item at all on the AH (basically exactly how it works in FFXI) and easily browse said AH, who in their right mind would ever go back into the wards and manually search each slowly-loading hall to manually search each and every retainer one at a time to probably not even find the item they're looking for, let alone find the item for a good deal without having to comparison shop.

I just don't see how a fully functional Auction House ala FFXI (the type everyone seems to want) can co-exist with the current Market Ward system. Maybe a system where someone else mentioned only specific types of items could be listed on the AH would work well with the Wards, but not a system where you could slag whatever you wanted.
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#34 Oct 26 2010 at 8:35 PM Rating: Good
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RETAINER SYSTEM = VIRTUAL VENDING MACHINE.

While getting a snack and soda from a vending machine at work I thought I was my character in FFXIV buying something from the ward. Looking at the rows of machine not knowing what exactly was in each one other then there are sodas in this one and food items in the other one. I went from one to the other browsing to see what I wanted. This is what I have been doing in FFXIV ward. When I saw it I was mind F*ck.

The retainers are nothing more then vending machines. It has X amount if item and pay set amount of gils to get the item. People wake up. There is nothing inovating about this. This current system is nothing more then a virtual vending machine. There is no interaction or hagling. Just hundreds of vending maching in the shape of characters where you stuff items in it and hope people come by and look in to see what you are selling.




Edited, Oct 26th 2010 10:36pm by doubleax
#35 Oct 26 2010 at 8:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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doubleax wrote:
RETAINER SYSTEM = VIRTUAL VENDING MACHINE.

While getting a snack and soda from a vending machine at work I thought I was my character in FFXIV buying something from the ward.


For an even truer experience you would be looking for Fritos and only run across vending machines holding antacids, cigarettes and condoms.
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#36 Oct 26 2010 at 9:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Wolfums wrote:
Thayos wrote:
Quote:
If the AH works like it does in FFXI, it won't kill off market wards.


Honestly asking, why do you think this?

Personally I would rather have an AH than market wards (and it's not even close), but as another poster said, SE has demonstrated time and time again that it's not interested in abandoning content -- even if it's content that people don't really like.


People are not going to list expensive or slow selling items over and over on an AH if there's an auction fee or if there's a limit on how many items you can sell.

Bazaars still thrived in FFXI despite there being an AH. Of course, nobody sold common crafting mats or items through a bazaar, but they still existed.
There's a tax in the wards and a limit of 10 items to sell at once.
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#37 Oct 26 2010 at 9:29 PM Rating: Decent
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^ The comment about retainers being similar to a virtual vendor machine is true, and a bit frightening.

Anyway hi first post here. I've been reading a lot on the forums about news and what people think. I personally found there is so much untapped potential in the game, but as of this moment the reality of that unleashed potential is so distant. One of the potential is ofcourse the Market Ward system.

Some has already mentioned the inspiration for this system coming from real world flea markets. While interesting to implement, it turned into that virtual vendor machine doubleax noticed. I think the simplest thing to implement right now would be to have a little text box that comes up when you check that retainer. You can put in your character name, types of items you're willing to sell or buy, etc, like back in FFXI. I am a metalworker (Armorer, Blacksmith, and goldsmith) that wants to sell all the metal parts for people of other crafts to use. Problem is, I have only 10 slots to sell things in. I always thought "If only I can have my retainer say "Need any parts made from Copper, Bronze, Brass and Iron? Please contact <my character name here>", my business would probably be better."

I agree that market wards need to be bigger, and I'm kinda hoping they'll set the market wards into a bigger hall with several rows (think of a parking lot) and each person can put a retainer into a 'slot' in the hall. That'll at least help with the appearence of the place, so, you know, the place looks like a flea market instead of a sea of NPCs.

Another wishlisting that I thought of but don't think will be realistically implemented is to be able to move into your own stand and be an active seller. Not sure how many people will have the time to do it, but if they want haggling and connections between buyer and seller, this is one method.

If we're going the path of havng more retainers, I'm kinda wishing we can hire them with the gil in game. Like, the first is free, the second is XX gil, the third is XXX gil, and so on with the cost increasing exponentially. This provides the game with a gil sink, as well as giving people a way to invest in either more bag space, or more ways to sell more stuff, and increase the profit in the long run.

Speaking of having more retainer, one thing I wish they'll do is to make a bigger stall (or even the same stall), that you can put 2 or 3 retainers in, assuming each can still sell only ten items types. I dream of having three retainers helping each other selling all the metal parts I make in a big stall. One can dream....

To be honest I think having an AH now can help the economy, yes, but once implemented it'll be hard to take it away, even if the market wards are fully functional in the future.

The main reason why the market ward is a huge mess is because people sell whatever they want wherever they want. And I'm not even talking about the useful things. I'm talking about marmot meats and the damned walnuts that can be used in exactly one recipe. People don't even want it given free to them, let alone charging a stupid 500 gil for one. I think there might be a niche for someone buying stuff from people who main combats class and has too many different loots, then sell it to different people who may need stacks of moko grass, or whatever. Like a middle man of sorts.

Anyway apologies for the overly long post, but after weeks of playing and reading forums and not posting a single thing, I have a lot of ideas floating around in my cranium.

Edited, Oct 26th 2010 11:31pm by Enfid
#38 Oct 26 2010 at 9:37 PM Rating: Decent
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bsphil wrote:
There's a tax in the wards and a limit of 10 items to sell at once.


True, but then you pay the fee only once.
#39 Oct 26 2010 at 10:50 PM Rating: Good
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this is exactly what a good portion of the 'anti-wards' crew saw coming. and there is really no defending it as a mechanic. yes this will happen, if the cap is 200 retainers per ward, and 201 people want to sell weapon guess, what, that last guys getting the shaft.

This may have come across as a bit of a negative post, but if you have a contrasting opinion, by all means please share, i would love to hear it.
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#40 Oct 27 2010 at 12:25 AM Rating: Decent
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RayneZ wrote:
It seems you can get "kicked" from a ward too. Not sure how it happens, but probably after you've had your retainer in a ward for a while it "hides" your retainer. What the worst part of it is: It doesn't tell you it has happened until you go back to the ward it was in and find out it's not there and you can't summon it in that ward (yet if you check the Retainer menu in the Main Menu it will say it is in that ward).

I'd be OK with this if it just "closed shop" and let me summon it with the bell again. If I'm away from the city my Retainer is set up in for a long time, it's not only not selling or seeking items for me anymore, I can't utilize it in anyway until I go back and "reset" it.


Your retainer got "kicked" because the market ward crashed/server maintenance.
That cause your retainer to get kicked. I personally experienced the server crash, I was in the market ward pulling my hair out looking for an undyed canvas............ and my game crashed on me (so did my wife's)
After about 1/2 an hour I manage to relog back into the game and saw the entire market ward empty. (Before that it was full)
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#41 Oct 27 2010 at 12:32 AM Rating: Good
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the same thing happened to me today. I checked my retainer in Battlecraft, emptied it...which then dismissed it. after making several weapons, i tried resummoning my retainer to sell weapons in the battlecraft ward, but got the message i cant put my retainer here. someone must have summoned a retainer while mine was out.

so then i put my retainer in the tradecraft ward where there was room, but of course now im selling the wrong items for the ward. thats nice. at least i tried to sell in the right place.
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#42 Oct 27 2010 at 12:38 AM Rating: Decent
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Lots of people stand in wards selling with retainers maybe that filled it up.
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#43 Oct 27 2010 at 1:40 AM Rating: Decent
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Fix that I haven't seen mentioned.

Give retainers a purpose.

Step 1, To place a retainer in a Ward it MUST contain at least 1 item appropriate for the Ward it is placed in.
Step 2, Any other items can be sold as long as 1 item appropriate for the Ward remains for sale.
Step 3, Retainer will be removed from Ward if/when all appropriate items for that Ward are sold.
Step 4, Incorporate retainers into the NPC Linkpearl system. When all appropriate items are sold and the retainer
has been removed from the Ward, send a message letting the player know.
Step 5, SE please follow Steps 1-4.
#44 Oct 27 2010 at 2:00 AM Rating: Decent
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:

- You lose the social aspect and the ability to make deals with a retainer. Sure, your retainer might get recognized over time as "The one who has great prices on skins", but you can't really socialize or haggle with a retainer.


The thing that really annoys me is that the social aspects with the current retainers system are actually worse than the FFXI auction house. I made a fair few deals in FFXI by people seeing my name in the auction house history and contacting me.

In contrast, I can't see any way of working out who owns a particular retainer, so I can't contact that player to make a deal.

You can't even leave a message with your retainer like bazaars in FFXI.
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#45 Oct 27 2010 at 2:04 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:
A full-on auction house couldn't exist with full-on market wards because the market wards would simply shrivel and die... and I think it's safe to assume that SE wants the market wards to be a big part of this game.


I wouldn't say that at all. Look at FFXI, Aion, EQ2, etc - games that have both an AH style interface, and a bazaar interface, for selling goods. If you look at EQ2's implementation - you list items on the broker, if they sell, the broker takes a small cut which the buyer pays for. Now, if you list that same item on the broker, yet place it in your player housing supply box - and the buyer comes to your home to purchase the item, they don't pay any additional tax. Best of both worlds.

Personally, I found FFXI's AH extremely flawed. You could only list a limited number of items, you couldn't specify a selling period, you couldn't list partial stacks, the buyer couldn't see at all what you were selling for, etc. For years people would use bazaar's as an additional method of selling to try get around the various short comings of it's AH system. The same idea would work in FFXIV - if you're a bargain hunter, and I know many in MMO's that are, you'd take the time to go from person to person, stall to stall, looking for the cheapest price. On the other hand, if you're like me you don't really care if you can find something for a few gil less elsewhere, the convenience of an AH outweighs any bargains I may find.

This bazaar only method of selling is far too reminiscent of F2P games like Battle of the Immortals where you have to sift through a sea of sellers, opening new windows each for each person, trying to find the one item you may want. Which leads to another problem - what if I don't know what I want? Maybe I just leveled and want to see what's available. Is there a dev at SE who truly believes I'm going to go through the various market wards in three separate cities to see what's new?

If this new interface simply lets me goto a central NPC with a familiar AH interface that lets me browse goods from all sellers, then great. If I still have to go from zone to zone, city to city, they really don't understand the problem at all.
#46 Oct 27 2010 at 2:10 AM Rating: Default
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KaneKitty wrote:
Olorinus the Vile wrote:
At this point I wish they would just implement an AH -in addition to- the market wards.


A thousand times yes! Although I have a feeling that will be the inscription upon my tombstone (or maybe FFXIV's! haha).
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|---- Beneath this mossy stone lies Kane, ----------------|
|---- Who died within the prime of youth. ------------------|
|---- So much he loses for such little gain: -----------------|
|---- He who shuns auctions, favouring mass booths. ---|

/\\\\//\/\\\\\///\/__________________/\___________////\\\//////



BRILLIANT !

#47 Oct 27 2010 at 3:35 AM Rating: Default
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Jefro420 wrote:
Maybe this is obvious, but just either go to another city, choose another ward and take the tax hit, or sell items that belong in the ward that you ultimately end up selling in.

The market changes that are coming won't fix the issue you're seeing.


I woulda gone to another town too, or just leave the crystals in your own bazaar and stand in camp for a few hours.

But i see where OP coming from, it can only get worse :(
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#48 Oct 27 2010 at 3:50 AM Rating: Decent
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joltyj20 wrote:
Fix that I haven't seen mentioned.

Give retainers a purpose.

Step 1, To place a retainer in a Ward it MUST contain at least 1 item appropriate for the Ward it is placed in.
Step 2, Any other items can be sold as long as 1 item appropriate for the Ward remains for sale.
Step 3, Retainer will be removed from Ward if/when all appropriate items for that Ward are sold.
Step 4, Incorporate retainers into the NPC Linkpearl system. When all appropriate items are sold and the retainer
has been removed from the Ward, send a message letting the player know.
Step 5, SE please follow Steps 1-4.


If people are looking in the proper ward for the item then chances are they are most likely to buy only those items. If you put only one of these on your retainer there is a high chance that your retainer will be kicked having only sold that one item. Kinda defeats the purpose.

Personally I think there should be only a few retainers in each ward. One for each category of equipment or items. Everyone will use the same retainer and they'll always be in the exact same spot so you don't have to roam around waiting for them all to load on your screen. Oh wait, that's too much like a working auction house.


Edited, Oct 27th 2010 5:51am by FilthMcNasty
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#49 Oct 27 2010 at 4:11 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
only run across vending machines holding antacids, cigarettes and condoms.


Now that's my kind of vending machine!

Amsterdam has great vending machines also.

On a serious note,I found this thread to be a very interesting read.
#50 Oct 27 2010 at 11:09 AM Rating: Good
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So, how about when more retainers are added they make it so you can ONLY sell the correct item in each ward. But retainers will have to be free. Sorry SE, to fix your system your just going to have to eat that one.

(The search function better have an option for "By Catagory" and not limited to specific Item Names.)
#51 Oct 27 2010 at 11:24 AM Rating: Good
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RufuSwho wrote:

(The search function better have an option for "By Catagory" and not limited to specific Item Names.)


Incoming: You can only search for items you already posses.


Quote:
A full-on auction house couldn't exist with full-on market wards because the market wards would simply shrivel and die... and I think it's safe to assume that SE wants the market wards to be a big part of this game.


JUST LET THEM DIE. This was a stupid system, and whoever came up with the idea should go back to the ****** club. The wards should just act as a categorized Rolamart, not as the only and centralized economy. I don't even go into the @#%^ing wards anymore, I just shout for stuff in the city, 'cause I know I won't find anything in the wards anyway.

Edited, Oct 27th 2010 1:24pm by Pluelf
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