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#1 Oct 27 2010 at 12:30 AM Rating: Default
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Okay I don't want this to turn into a WE NEED AUCTION HOUSE! thread, I've just been mulling over an idea which might work for both parties.

Would it be possible (and I'm seriously asking because I know nothing of game mechanics) to have some sort of filter which could take items we wanted to sell and then redirect them to the category they belong in?

I'm thinking you talk to a npc, you put your selection of items up for sale and they are rerouted to sales npc's who are set up in a similar fashion to the market wards.
For example cloth sellers, canvas, velveteen etc or even gloves, shoes, pants etc
this system would work similar to an auction house - the, let's say shoes salesman, would have listings of all the shoes people were selling sorted by type, price (both whatever) so you could check for competitive pricing (both selling and buying) but would still retain the market feel of going to different stalls to purchase goods.

Once the sale was done the currency could be redirected to your retainer or (god forbid) by mail.

This might be a bit convoluted, but I thought it might work to satisfy both parties to some extent, also it would make a search function less necessary...

Thoughts?
#2 Oct 27 2010 at 12:36 AM Rating: Excellent
Edited by bsphil
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sylphien wrote:
Okay I don't want this to turn into a WE NEED AUCTION HOUSE! thread, I've just been mulling over an idea which might work for both parties.
There's only one party. The players that want an auction house.
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#3 Oct 27 2010 at 12:54 AM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
There's only one party. The players that want an auction house.


Actually, this is probably correct.

Props!
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#4 Oct 27 2010 at 1:07 AM Rating: Decent
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The only way I ever see an AH and Ward system working is to have the AH search option and when you find the item you want, you physically have to go into the ward and find them.
#5 Oct 27 2010 at 11:53 AM Rating: Default
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LordBalrog wrote:
The only way I ever see an AH and Ward system working is to have the AH search option and when you find the item you want, you physically have to go into the ward and find them.


that's basically what they're doing... will be in the November patch.
#6 Oct 27 2010 at 12:36 PM Rating: Good
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/ta <npc name>.... ARRGH!!!!! DOES NOT WORK. Sorry but enter a zone to buy the item to have 200 other NPCs to sift through praying to god that the person didnt stick there NPC on another few NPCs because when they called theres they had lag and didnt notice the 5 other NPCs in the same spot.
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#7 Oct 27 2010 at 12:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Ranzera originally wrote:
What you described in your initial post, while infinitely better than what's present, is close enough to an Auction House that it'd make a person wonder why they wouldn't just implement a real Auction House instead.

The biggest problem with this is SE cannot seem to admit that they were wrong. Were we in beta, I would be giving SE the benefit of the doubt with thoughts like "yeah it probably seemed cool on paper, but lets get real here." but here we are a month after release and SE is trying to muster up as much lipstick as possible for this pig.

sylphien wrote:
Okay I don't want this to turn into a WE NEED AUCTION HOUSE! thread, I've just been mulling over an idea which might work for both parties.

Oh uhm...Yeah, that's better than what's in place.
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#8 Oct 27 2010 at 1:07 PM Rating: Decent
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for one, i'll be on the side of market wards :P i prefer the holistic feel. i believe this could eventually lead to a more natural market based on marketing and simple capitalism rather than a market where you just throw crap into a collective pool trying to undercut everyone else.

HOWEVER, SE gave players too much (and not enough) freedom in the wrong areas. No search. No enforcement to what is in the ward. The NPCs are everywhere. And the cap is messed. In general, each person having a retainer is kinda messed up. Maybe LS based stores of pooled goods. LSs buying muliple stores to possibly handle multiple interests of the LS. But this would of course hurt the market at startup due to LSs trying to raise funds for store and simply organizing. I think the lack of vendor available gear is staggeringly low; that should be addressed (vendor gear sucks but better than finding no gear :P as which is happening to me).
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#9 Oct 27 2010 at 1:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Eldonia wrote:
that's basically what they're doing... will be in the November patch.


Not hardly, it will be limited to 1 ward and just put an icon by the retainers name (based on their description). An "AH equivalent" would search all wards and list stock + prices for every selling retainer.


Edited, Oct 27th 2010 3:21pm by Furia
#10 Oct 27 2010 at 2:21 PM Rating: Decent
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I think most people are looking at the economy from a consumer with immediate needs (duh, who wouldn't) but what we all see with auction houses is crazy unstable economy (highs and lows, monopolies and floods). I believe by distributing the market more, you are going to see a higher number of successful crafters/gatherers not to mention with likely advancements to stalls a sort of integrity that will slowly evolve to keep shop profitable. Kinda like being a seller on eBay *cringe*, I digress. I can see with a more successful rate of crafters/gatherers and more markets to profit on leading to a more stable economy in the long run.

Thoughts? *gets flame-retardant gear ready*
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#11 Oct 27 2010 at 2:24 PM Rating: Good
Market swings and human intervention are realistic parts of markets. That is in essence, a fundamental of capitalism. If you don't want those, make it so NPCs sell all the items and you'll never have to worry about price swings.
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#12 Oct 27 2010 at 2:26 PM Rating: Decent
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i didn't say anything about making a controlled price. i am talking about making more successful crafters and gatherers. with more components being added to the synths, there are more available jobs for crafters to make components. i am talking about everyone being more successful.
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#13 Oct 27 2010 at 2:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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TempLoop wrote:
I think most people are looking at the economy from a consumer with immediate needs (duh, who wouldn't) but what we all see with auction houses is crazy unstable economy (highs and lows, monopolies and floods). I believe by distributing the market more, you are going to see a higher number of successful crafters/gatherers not to mention with likely advancements to stalls a sort of integrity that will slowly evolve to keep shop profitable. Kinda like being a seller on eBay *cringe*, I digress. I can see with a more successful rate of crafters/gatherers and more markets to profit on leading to a more stable economy in the long run.

Thoughts? *gets flame-retardant gear ready*



but thats the problem, the actual market is very unstable. What people call undercutting is almost always a real increase in supply and therefore decrease in price. MMO economies are never stable/realistic because they are almost always buyers markets due to a surplus of crafters/producers.
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#14 Oct 27 2010 at 2:41 PM Rating: Decent
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KujaKoF wrote:
TempLoop wrote:
I think most people are looking at the economy from a consumer with immediate needs (duh, who wouldn't) but what we all see with auction houses is crazy unstable economy (highs and lows, monopolies and floods). I believe by distributing the market more, you are going to see a higher number of successful crafters/gatherers not to mention with likely advancements to stalls a sort of integrity that will slowly evolve to keep shop profitable. Kinda like being a seller on eBay *cringe*, I digress. I can see with a more successful rate of crafters/gatherers and more markets to profit on leading to a more stable economy in the long run.

Thoughts? *gets flame-retardant gear ready*



but thats the problem, the actual market is very unstable. What people call undercutting is almost always a real increase in supply and therefore decrease in price. MMO economies are never stable/realistic because they are almost always buyers markets due to a surplus of crafters/producers.


so it is a constant that will happen in ANY market. now if you have a global market and fire crystals become under-priced then that equals ALL fire crystals are under-priced. If you have three markets, the downfall of one market does not immediately result the others. Thus, for the active seller, giving an opportunity to succeed somewhere else. One person dominating the market in Ul'dah doesn't mean that a person in another city-state doesn't have a chance. With market wards the possibilities for distributed wealth are more diverse as well.
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#15 Oct 27 2010 at 2:42 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm kind of curious what is going to happen to the power of the gil once a search function/AH is implemented. Right now...there is no true supply and demand based on the fact there is no data to support one or the other. Once that data is available...will supply out do demand since the player base is shrinking...or will demand out do supply since gil is abundant and everyone is waiting to see what higher ranked items will become available.

hmmm...
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#16 Oct 27 2010 at 2:44 PM Rating: Decent
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How would a search function stop undercutting? Right now I use yg to see what others are selling items at, then i undercut.
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#17 Oct 27 2010 at 2:54 PM Rating: Good
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Why is it that people talk about undercutting like it's the invention of some evil **** regime? Undercutting is not unlike Global Warming in that it's a real thing, but it's nowhere near as terrible as some people would have you believe it is.

I don't get why people feel like what should be a 1-2 minute transaction from start to finish (listing an item for sale or locating and purchasing an item) should have a dozen steps and take 10-30 minutes longer than needed, and that's totally acceptable, all in the name of "It hurts those evil baby-eating, devil-worshiping, UNDERCUTTERS!!!!"
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#18 Oct 27 2010 at 2:55 PM Rating: Decent
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Seventhblood wrote:
How would a search function stop undercutting? Right now I use yg to see what others are selling items at, then i undercut.


It is not that it stops undercutting, but it stops the users who don't use YG or ffxivpro from finding the cheapest items, meaning that if your item is reasonably priced it still may sell regardless if there are cheaper on the market. In the AH even if your item is reasonably priced, the continued input of items could mean yours never gets sold.
#19 Oct 27 2010 at 3:15 PM Rating: Good
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Despite SE's efforts the current system is a gold farmers dream. No strictly controlled item prices based on a checkable market? RMT winsauce in the making right there. RMT cannot control an AH the same way unless like in XI the prices they are running up are NM drops also controlled by them. In this case no control is needed. They charge it. They get it. Only a small amount of the playerbase is actually using the AH sites to check prices. The rest? RMT fodder.
#20 Oct 27 2010 at 3:22 PM Rating: Decent
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In the current context wouldn't it be more beneficial for RMT to be crafters? I still see Awahsgdhd dhdgsb out there killing stuff in the same spot(made up name).
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#21 Oct 27 2010 at 3:31 PM Rating: Decent
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zoltanrs wrote:
Despite SE's efforts the current system is a gold farmers dream. No strictly controlled item prices based on a checkable market? RMT winsauce in the making right there. RMT cannot control an AH the same way unless like in XI the prices they are running up are NM drops also controlled by them. In this case no control is needed. They charge it. They get it. Only a small amount of the playerbase is actually using the AH sites to check prices. The rest? RMT fodder.



interesting. so can you explain to me an example scenario. currently, I can imagine it very plausible. let's face it if ANYONE actually provided real goods at the market wards "They charge it. They get it." at this point. But let's say down the road, I am standing next to an RMT with a fair price, why do they get the sale? unless the **** act of UNDERCUTTING :X *gasp* lol (^previous post props). I could see current situations being easy for an RMT group to completely occupy dens... very likely. but so far all i see is people carrying quite literally nothing useful. some is over-priced but i'd say currently not something to contend with the amounts you see in RMT. but i am also in retrospective Windy (Gridania or some silliness) and i hear our market is poor so not prime RMT target either.
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