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A Warning About the Complaints DepartmentFollow

#1 Oct 27 2010 at 12:43 PM Rating: Good
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I'm not going to make any judgements on peoples complaints whether justified or not. Nor will I make any new ones because, lets face it, all the good rants are taken.

I was enjoying my little adventure thru Eorzea. I got to talk to old friends from FFXI, kill little furries, start a little crafting and do some beginning quests. Basically having a grand old time. Now, I was not oblivious to the glaring faults that are pretty abundant ingame but I was enjoying my time despite these little hiccups that so often occur when a game of this scope is released.

That being said, I like this game. More to the point I desperately WANT to like this game. But after reading thru the Complaints Department I am beginning to think my desperate need to like this game is strangling my actual opinion. Reading that endless stream of grievances, both legitimate and groundless, has brought what I was trying so hard to ignore acutely into unwanted focus. Now all the little peccadilloes(yikes!) are right up in my friggin grill everytime I log on. So tread carefully, new and old alike, when gazing upon those complaint threads because they are more subversive than they seem.

I really do hope that SE takes alot of the real problems/solutions seriously. Alot of veteran gamers are providing not only concerns with the game but viable resolutions to those concerns.

Now seriously, where's the AH in Ul'Dah?





#2 Oct 27 2010 at 12:47 PM Rating: Default
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Or... we could have our own opinions and not be influenced by people we dont even know on the internet....
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#3 Oct 27 2010 at 12:50 PM Rating: Good
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MaverickBG wrote:
Or... we could have our own opinions and not be influenced by people we dont even know on the internet....


I think his point was not that the other opinions influenced his decision, but that his WANTING to like the game was blinding his true thoughts on the game.


Just reading the posts on these forums it seems like you are not alone in this mindset maverick

Edited, Oct 27th 2010 2:51pm by burtonsnow
#4 Oct 27 2010 at 12:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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I think I get what the OP is saying. I'm finding that if I'm going to have any semblance of enjoyment in the game, I have to limit how much I read the feedback/complaints posts. Especially the well thought-out ones.

It's sad; I feel like I'm trying to coach myself to be willfully ignorant of the faults, just so I can try to eek out some enjoyment.
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#5 Oct 27 2010 at 12:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm in a similar boat as you (though it's not obvious, with what I post). This game is beautiful. This game has a few interesting differences between it and other games in the genre. Half of the problems with this game are simply that SE owns the IP. A more agile company would look at criticism and make adjustments. The problem is SE after it's mergers has become such a bloated Titanic of a company that it's not too difficult to make an analogy about SE trying to avoid an iceberg on an enormous boat while it's officers and steering crew have communications difficulties.

That's not to say I've completely given up. I stop posting altogether when that happens.
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#6 Oct 27 2010 at 12:57 PM Rating: Good
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No, he's pointing out that third party perspective can radically alter how we view something we like. Obviously if you had never played a video game before, FFXIV would offer a lot of cool, innovative stuff. However, we form our opinion based on how it stacks up relative to other things, and if you've only played FFXI you might not find FFXIV's faults too surprising.

Aion was my first MMO, and I thought it was amazing. I loved it - until I started hanging out on the Aion forums and learned how much it took from WoW and how much more WoW offered. Now that I'm playing WoW, I can see where they're coming from.

Forums are generally pretty negative places, and can sour your opinion of anything. However, that's especially true if your opinion of something really isn't that strongly held, as in the OP's opinion of FFXIV.
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#7 Oct 27 2010 at 1:04 PM Rating: Decent
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yfaithfully wrote:
No, he's pointing out that third party perspective can radically alter how we view something we like.


There are some points I agree with, but your thesis just doesn't stand up. The OP clearly states he recognizes said flaws and was rationalizing to himself because he wanted to like this game. The well thought out posts made him think twice about his rationalization. His self justifications were removed and truth was discovered.
#8 Oct 27 2010 at 1:08 PM Rating: Good
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The admins are already locking almost anything negative putting them all in a little pen very few people read, if they go any further the forum loses any integrity it has at all. I can understand to a point but dont try to push the idea that this should be a complete rose tinted spec zone.

This game has problems and users that bought the game want to post about them, if you can't take the game for what it IS then thats your problem. Also bear in mind Square are very very distanced from the players, they are in a world of their own and honestly unless people kick up a huge stink about the game they will think everyone is happy and the game is perfect.

Quote:
That being said, I like this game. More to the point I desperately WANT to like this game.


I tried to like this game for a week then realised I was being a ******, its a game..if you don't enjoy it why bother, go play something else. These games are already a waste of your short life, at least let it be on a game thats good and gives you enjoyment. If you genuinly like the game then cool, if you are forcing yourself to play it then that will come to a head sooner rather than later.
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#9 Oct 27 2010 at 1:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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yfaithfully wrote:
No, he's pointing out that third party perspective can radically alter how we view something we like. Obviously if you had never played a video game before, FFXIV would offer a lot of cool, innovative stuff. However, we form our opinion based on how it stacks up relative to other things, and if you've only played FFXI you might not find FFXIV's faults too surprising.

Aion was my first MMO, and I thought it was amazing. I loved it - until I started hanging out on the Aion forums and learned how much it took from WoW and how much more WoW offered. Now that I'm playing WoW, I can see where they're coming from.

Forums are generally pretty negative places, and can sour your opinion of anything. However, that's especially true if your opinion of something really isn't that strongly held, as in the OP's opinion of FFXIV.


I suppose that's possible but I played in beta and all my opinions came from that and reading patch notes since. It seems like nothing has significantly changed and with problems having been identified at least as early as Beta 2, you'd think SE would have had them fixed by now.

Sure people's opinions could be shaped by reviews but if that's a problem to you, then what worth are reviews to you?
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#10 Oct 27 2010 at 1:08 PM Rating: Good
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burtonsnow wrote:
There are some points I agree with, but your thesis just doesn't stand up. The OP clearly states he recognizes said flaws and was rationalizing to himself because he wanted to like this game. The well thought out posts made him think twice about his rationalization. His self justifications were removed and truth was discovered.

The thread title contradicts that, though - he seems to be acknowledging that he's overlooking FFXIV's faults, but if that's your bag then you better avoid the forums. I could be misreading it, though. Perhaps a word from the OP is in order.
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#11 Oct 27 2010 at 1:21 PM Rating: Decent
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yfaithfully wrote:
burtonsnow wrote:
There are some points I agree with, but your thesis just doesn't stand up. The OP clearly states he recognizes said flaws and was rationalizing to himself because he wanted to like this game. The well thought out posts made him think twice about his rationalization. His self justifications were removed and truth was discovered.

The thread title contradicts that, though - he seems to be acknowledging that he's overlooking FFXIV's faults, but if that's your bag then you better avoid the forums. I could be misreading it, though. Perhaps a word from the OP is in order.


seeing as how we were both putting words in the OP mouth at one point, i'd say that is a good idea. lol


What i'm trying to say is that as a gamer I shouldn't over look constant annoyances. It is my opinion that some people are letting their WANT to like this game influence their acceptance of these broken features.
#12 Oct 27 2010 at 1:29 PM Rating: Decent
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I dont think the OP is the only one dealing with this issue. all of us who played the alpha/beta pretty much knew this game was not going to be ready at all by the release date. we all knew it was rushed even before others played the open beta and started burning down the forums.

its always a matter of opinions and everyone has there own.

Edited, Oct 27th 2010 3:31pm by ZeretaiGoliath
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#13 Oct 27 2010 at 1:35 PM Rating: Good
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So if you're forcing yourself to like the game, don't read through any complaints or it'll be harder to deceive yourself?

Eske, Star Breaker wrote:
I think I get what the OP is saying. I'm finding that if I'm going to have any semblance of enjoyment in the game, I have to limit how much I read the feedback/complaints posts. Especially the well thought-out ones.
That just seems like a bad idea to advocate for mental health. I am generally against self-deception for basically any reason. Physical evidence and reasoned logic ftw.



Edited, Oct 27th 2010 2:48pm by bsphil
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#14 Oct 27 2010 at 1:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
No, he's pointing out that third party perspective can radically alter how we view something we like.

That was the warning part.

Quote:
The OP clearly states he recognizes said flaws and was rationalizing to himself because he wanted to like this game. The well thought out posts made him think twice about his rationalization. His self justifications were removed and truth was discovered.

That's the rub, so to speak.

I am a huge FF fan and consequently wanted to enjoy the game. For the most part I did until I got hooked on the negative feedback where my doubts were being reiterated and confirmed. Now the flaws are all I see. Not because some random person I dont know doesnt like running to camp but because my real opinion was being obscured by my desire to be engrossed by FFXIV like I was by FFXI.

Quote:
Or... we could have our own opinions and not be influenced by people we dont even know on the internet....

You are sorely mistaken if you think you or anyone elso on this planet is above outside influence. Your cutesy punctuation and poorly veiled snide comment shows not a lack of intelligence or wit but of a far more important trait. Wisdom.
#15 Oct 27 2010 at 2:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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bsphil wrote:
So if you're forcing yourself to like the game, don't read through any complaints or it'll be harder to deceive yourself?

Eske, Star Breaker wrote:
I think I get what the OP is saying. I'm finding that if I'm going to have any semblance of enjoyment in the game, I have to limit how much I read the feedback/complaints posts. Especially the well thought-out ones.
That just seems like a bad idea to advocate for mental health. I am generally against self-deception for basically any reason. Physical evidence and reasoned logic ftw.



Edited, Oct 27th 2010 2:48pm by bsphil


Oh believe me, I'm right there with you. Its not a good thing.

There are a lot of factors at play for me though, whichmake me inclined to hang around:

First and foremost, I'm running a linkshell, and a big one at that. With the current lack of LS functionality, If I leave, the shell will be disbanded. I don't want to ***** everyone over, especially when we've gone through such effort to assemble. I also like my LS mates...they're fun to socialize with, even if I'm not having much fun with the rest of the game.

Those things, and the vain hope that things will improve a bit, are what make me approach things this way.
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#16 Oct 27 2010 at 2:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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I have respect for this poster. They admitted that "some" of their through process about this game was "fanboy."

It takes a big person to admit this, most just continue to fight their fanboy though process, harshly at time (e.g. the admins here locking every thread in the main forum that says anything bad about the game)

Personally, i like the game but for my own reason. I really understand why others dont.
#17 Oct 27 2010 at 2:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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I know exactly what you mean, its pretty hard to ignore a fault once its been pointed out to you.
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#18 Oct 27 2010 at 2:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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It's kind of like when someone tells you what's inside of a hot dog.
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#19 Oct 27 2010 at 2:47 PM Rating: Good
Is there something they aren't telling me about hot dogs?
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#20 Oct 27 2010 at 2:53 PM Rating: Good
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Well, they don't list @ssholes and eyeballs on the ingredients, so yeah there is plenty they don't tell you about hot dogs. ;p

Edited, Oct 27th 2010 4:53pm by Jefro420
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#21 Oct 27 2010 at 3:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yabusame wrote:
Is there something they aren't telling me about hot dogs?


Mechanically separated meat, usually a combination of chicken, pork, and beef. Add in a cornmeal or wheat meal for texture, and pack into either intestine or a cellulose casing.

Also, because of the large scale of processing plants, they are legally allowed to contain a fraction (usually a percent of a percent or less) of dead insects that fell into the vat or rat **** or whatever. Actually, the same is true of nearly all processed foods.

Doesn't stop me from liking em though.
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#22 Oct 27 2010 at 3:10 PM Rating: Default
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westsidepatone wrote:
I'm not going to make any judgements on peoples complaints whether justified or not. Nor will I make any new ones because, lets face it, all the good rants are taken.

I was enjoying my little adventure thru Eorzea. I got to talk to old friends from FFXI, kill little furries, start a little crafting and do some beginning quests. Basically having a grand old time. Now, I was not oblivious to the glaring faults that are pretty abundant ingame but I was enjoying my time despite these little hiccups that so often occur when a game of this scope is released.

That being said, I like this game. More to the point I desperately WANT to like this game. But after reading thru the Complaints Department I am beginning to think my desperate need to like this game is strangling my actual opinion. Reading that endless stream of grievances, both legitimate and groundless, has brought what I was trying so hard to ignore acutely into unwanted focus. Now all the little peccadilloes(yikes!) are right up in my friggin grill everytime I log on. So tread carefully, new and old alike, when gazing upon those complaint threads because they are more subversive than they seem.

I really do hope that SE takes alot of the real problems/solutions seriously. Alot of veteran gamers are providing not only concerns with the game but viable resolutions to those concerns.

Now seriously, where's the AH in Ul'Dah?







Don't take much stock in whats said here. Most these people who have had problems simply don't know how to play. There are glaring problems. Don't get me wrong. You need to read lodestone and SE has addressed the ones they are intending to fix. AH tho? Don't count on it. They aren't doing months of slated upgrades on the retainer system to scrap it at the moment. That is one thing I feel safe saying at this point.

Also... The game gets phenomenally better at 20. It is still hard to find a group because of the before mentioned dumb people, but when you do it is very FFXIish tbh. You use your skills to drop mobs and gain exp with an SP bonus. New game and lack of content aside this game is very playable at the moment and looking to get better.
#23 Oct 27 2010 at 3:15 PM Rating: Good
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KujaKoF wrote:
I know exactly what you mean, its pretty hard to ignore a fault once its been pointed out to you.


Yes, it is also easy to become overly focused on faults to the point that you no longer enjoy something you once did. A big case of this happens with video/televisions/compressed hd issues. If you go over to AVSForums there are lots of threads where someone will point out a technology flaw (say Screen Door Effect on rear projection tvs) and after learning about it, going home and looking for it, that flaw is now all you can see. I have friends where it's so bad that they become incapable of watching movies because they obsess over the video playback flaws in their tv or player and can no longer sit down and just enjoy the movie.

That also seems to be part of the OPs warning. If all you do is read complaints, and then go home and look for those complaints, that can become all you think about while playing rather than continuing to enjoy the things in the game that you do enjoy.
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#24Aurelius, Posted: Oct 27 2010 at 3:25 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Ignore the closet psychoanalysts in the thread, especially the ones who have spent the last several months doing nothing but snivel about the game (it's so bad, but they're still here!! go fig...) who are overjoyed to have another discontent join their masses to bolster their soggy self esteem through validation.
#25 Oct 27 2010 at 3:31 PM Rating: Decent
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I wont let other people tell me whether I should or should not enjoy a game.

That said, I have started to try and avoid the flame threads simply because trying to post any positive comments or disagreeing with the assembled mass of sock puppets has destroyed my Karma.

Not that I care about such things necessarily but there is no point getting into heated debate about whether a game is any good or not based on the fact that it is an opinion and people are entitled to them.

I have fun playing the game.

I have variously been told that because I have fun playing the game I must be a ******, a child, an idiot, and countless other names. Perhaps I am one of these "names" since I seem to be in a minority. But the interesting thing is, I am spending my own time and money to have fun. Most other people here are spending their own time and money and not having fun - who is the biggest fool.

If you enjoy the game, enjoy the game and stay away from the hate threads. It is the only way for your karma to remain intact.
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#26 Oct 27 2010 at 3:31 PM Rating: Good
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really really wanted to love this game too. played it religiously for 3 weeks until I got fed up with spending 90% of my playtime either solo grinding or running to a camp.

I asked myself, when does the fun part of the game start? Then SE released the info that the fun part *MIGHT* start at the end of November. or next year.

I can't stand the lack of an AH. I can't stand sloooooow solo grinding. I can't stand this game at all at the moment.
#27 Oct 27 2010 at 3:44 PM Rating: Decent
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Aurelius wrote:
Lots of text pointing out that misery loves company.


Once again well said. I'm still confused why so many who do not enjoy the game and predict its failure are still playing. I heard one of the worst excuses recently, "I paid so much for a computer to play this, I'm going to play it." Yes, it makes sense now. I guess if I were to buy some tools to try to start a hobby, but didn't actually end up enjoying it, I might as well just continue working on the hobby because, hey, need to get my money's worth. I don't care that I'm spending my recreational time on something that I don't enjoy.

I see the vast amounts of negativity and the "I think/hope it will fail" comments and think "If I can't play it to my satisfaction, nobody will!! HA HA HA, mine is an evil laugh!"
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#28 Oct 27 2010 at 3:53 PM Rating: Default
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Aurelius wrote:
and the other had a sh*tty attitude and the assclowns are commending you for adopting their negative attitude.

How the @#%^ does that work?


This made me laugh out loud at work :)
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#29 Oct 27 2010 at 3:54 PM Rating: Default
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Gadhelyn wrote:
Aurelius wrote:
Lots of text pointing out that misery loves company.


Once again well said. I'm still confused why so many who do not enjoy the game and predict its failure are still playing. I heard one of the worst excuses recently, "I paid so much for a computer to play this, I'm going to play it." Yes, it makes sense now. I guess if I were to buy some tools to try to start a hobby, but didn't actually end up enjoying it, I might as well just continue working on the hobby because, hey, need to get my money's worth. I don't care that I'm spending my recreational time on something that I don't enjoy.

I see the vast amounts of negativity and the "I think/hope it will fail" comments and think "If I can't play it to my satisfaction, nobody will!! HA HA HA, mine is an evil laugh!"


They just mad because we've got all the energon cubes.
#30 Oct 27 2010 at 3:56 PM Rating: Default
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outzaidurz wrote:
really really wanted to love this game too. played it religiously for 3 weeks until I got fed up with spending 90% of my playtime either solo grinding or running to a camp.

I asked myself, when does the fun part of the game start? Then SE released the info that the fun part *MIGHT* start at the end of November. or next year.

I can't stand the lack of an AH. I can't stand sloooooow solo grinding. I can't stand this game at all at the moment.


I'll give you a hint.

Post level 15, if you group you will have more fun and level up faster. I dont like soloing but I love the game in groups. Play as if yuo had to group (because you pretty much do) and you will enjoy it a lot more.

This is a party grind game. If you dont like that, you will not like this game. If you do like that, this might be the game for you.
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#31 Oct 27 2010 at 3:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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Gadhelyn wrote:
I see the vast amounts of negativity and the "I think/hope it will fail" comments and think "If I can't play it to my satisfaction, nobody will!! HA HA HA, mine is an evil laugh!"
Well then you're misinterpreting it.
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#32 Oct 27 2010 at 3:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
I see the vast amounts of negativity and the "I think/hope it will fail" comments and think "If I can't play it to my satisfaction, nobody will!! HA HA HA, mine is an evil laugh!"


For some it's more along the lines of wanting to see a publisher punished for releasing an important game in an obviously inferior state and taking advantage of their fanbase(by this I mean they knew this was bad but they banked on their fans buying it anyway and putting up with it, a no name title would of been doa released like this).

Arrogance, totally ignoring the people paying your wages and Incompetence are things some find very distasteful.
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#33 Oct 27 2010 at 3:58 PM Rating: Default
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bsphil wrote:
Gadhelyn wrote:
I see the vast amounts of negativity and the "I think/hope it will fail" comments and think "If I can't play it to my satisfaction, nobody will!! HA HA HA, mine is an evil laugh!"
Well then you're misinterpreting it.


So says one of the most aggressive of all haters :-)

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#34 Oct 27 2010 at 4:01 PM Rating: Default
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westsidepatone wrote:
Quote:
[quote]Or... we could have our own opinions and not be influenced by people we dont even know on the internet....

You are sorely mistaken if you think you or anyone elso on this planet is above outside influence. Your cutesy punctuation and poorly veiled snide comment shows not a lack of intelligence or wit but of a far more important trait. Wisdom.



You caught me. Now go let people you don't know tell you what to think!!!

And let me just say.. I appreciate how much you noticed my punctuation.... it helps add specific 'pauses' to my posts.... On a different point! Its something I like to call "critical thinking skills". Its this crazy ability to actually collect information around you... look at it objectively.. recognize your personal biases, and make decisions based on this...

ITS WILD!!!! afkbuildingbombshelterforY2K.....

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#35 Oct 27 2010 at 4:03 PM Rating: Excellent
You're welcome. I hope you find something you actually like ^.^
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#36 Oct 27 2010 at 4:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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Personally I wouldn't discourage anyone from trying the game themselves if it weren't pretty awfully rough. I too really WANTED this game to be good, and if many hours of play had proven to be any fun, that would be enough, but there have just been so many actively bad decisions made. Not "things they missed," or, "things that aren't there yet," but things that make me wonder, "Why are they trying to sabotage their own game?"

Things like not allowing players to do the quests from the other nations. In a game that's suffering from a stifling lack of content?

Things like making xp take forever in a game that's not only supposed to be for casuals, but let's you and even expects you to change classes. Yet you could level multiple characters to cap in other games faster than the time it will take you to cap one class in XIV.

The limit and lack of leves AND party play. And the lack of balance in abilities.

Sadly it looks like the most enjoyment that this game will have offered me is the excitement before its actual release. It's been fun talking about it, speculating, and so forth, and remains so in a more morbid way. If only it were as much fun to actually play it.

I resisted letting all the QQing shape my own perceptions of the game, and I don't agree with every complaint of the game, but I am not going to hang around with any confidence that SE will fix it until they've demonstrated a history of actually doing it. They have a history of taking a long time to promise fixes that end up being underwhelming or downright disappointing. The fact that they're making the promises faster this time doesn't address my fears that they won't be good enough.
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#37Aurelius, Posted: Oct 27 2010 at 4:12 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Then have the balls to walk away. That's what we're saying. There's few things in the world that can ruin a job site faster than the one discontent that does nothing but walk around all day ******** about each and every little thing. Even the happiest and most positive, productive people will get dragged down by it from time to time.
#38 Oct 27 2010 at 4:14 PM Rating: Default
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Read some of Pec's posts in the complaints department. They are about 50/50 spot on, versus crazy ramblings. I can't tell if this person has english as a second language or is just so sodding mad that his typing and grammar skills get obliterated when he is pounding his frustrations out on his poor keyboard. I can picture him; face contorted into an angry grimace, clenched fists with just his index fingers dangling over his dimly lit laptop furiously hammering his stream of consciousness yammerings "WHY NO AH!WHY WAIT FOR ATTACK!!WHY NO FIRE IN CAVE???ARGHHHH!!!ME HATE FF!" Anyway, rereading that lunacy put alot my own criticisms in perspective.

After all is said and done I am going to stick it out. I remember getting frustrated on FFXI as well albeit not right at the start. And never with the reckless hysteria of that crazy Pec. Thanks Pec, your crazy made me feel better.
#39 Oct 27 2010 at 4:23 PM Rating: Good
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f you can't walk away from an $80 disappointment, you need a better job, k?


It's not the money it's the principle (although if you have a better job to the point money doesnt matter feel free to send me that $80 I wasted on this game) and I did walk away from the game, doesnt mean I'll stop posting on the forums about what I think of it though. They ruined a game I wanted to be a part of and so I like expressing my annoyance at it, if you don't like that...well, too bad, k?



Edited, Oct 27th 2010 6:24pm by preludes
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#40 Oct 27 2010 at 4:28 PM Rating: Default
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preludes wrote:
Quote:
f you can't walk away from an $80 disappointment, you need a better job, k?


It's not the money it's the principle (although if you have a better job to the point money doesnt matter feel free to send me that $80 I wasted on this game) and I did walk away from the game, doesnt mean I'll stop posting on the forums about what I think of it though. They ruined a game I wanted to be a part of and so I like expressing my annoyance at it, if you don't like that...well, too bad, k?


Why? Why is whining about it such a benefit to you? Why can't you just walk away from it? Have you nothing else going on in your life? Why is it so seemingly difficult for you to grasp that people who have "quit" but still troll forums ******** are an irritant to those who are trying to enjoy the game? What is it that you think your negativity is bringing to this community? We aren't SE. We can't fix your problems. This isn't even the right forum to be bringing them up if you're serious about SE reading them. Your problem is with SE, not us. Don't make it our problem.
#41 Oct 27 2010 at 4:34 PM Rating: Decent
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westsidepatone wrote:
Read some of Pec's posts in the complaints department. They are about 50/50 spot on, versus crazy ramblings. I can't tell if this person has english as a second language or is just so sodding mad that his typing and grammar skills get obliterated when he is pounding his frustrations out on his poor keyboard. I can picture him; face contorted into an angry grimace, clenched fists with just his index fingers dangling over his dimly lit laptop furiously hammering his stream of consciousness yammerings "WHY NO AH!WHY WAIT FOR ATTACK!!WHY NO FIRE IN CAVE???ARGHHHH!!!ME HATE FF!"....


Had to try not to spit up my cereal, waking my room mates in the process. You sir have made my morning.

Edit: I suppose to add something of relevance to this thread.

To all those who have "left" the game but are still lurking around, just remember...

There's a difference between "whining" about a game you're upset about, and giving constructive criticism about a game you're upset about.

Edited, Oct 27th 2010 6:36pm by ThePacster
#42 Oct 27 2010 at 4:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Here's the 2 types of vocally negative people I've seen:

Plays the game, but wants improvements are those that play the game and want things like function Wards if not an AH, better UI, more content, or whatnot. Some offer these suggestions in the form of constructive criticism, others offer these suggestions in a more negative fashion (although they'd probably get SE to listen better if it were polite!). This type includes the most harmless in terms of making others negative (if you can play the game in its current state, knowing that it isn't perfect, then you can still have fun playing).

Plays the game, but not for long, absolutely hates the game are those that confuse me. All these people do are complain about the game and say they don't like it, and will probably cancel their subscription soon. The people who I described as having the "If I can't play the game to my satisfaction, no one will!" attitude. While their dream is that their complaining is going to eventually going to hurt SE, they don't realize that this means taking away a source of enjoyment for others.
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#43 Oct 27 2010 at 4:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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Aurelius wrote:
preludes wrote:
Quote:
f you can't walk away from an $80 disappointment, you need a better job, k?


It's not the money it's the principle (although if you have a better job to the point money doesnt matter feel free to send me that $80 I wasted on this game) and I did walk away from the game, doesnt mean I'll stop posting on the forums about what I think of it though. They ruined a game I wanted to be a part of and so I like expressing my annoyance at it, if you don't like that...well, too bad, k?


Why? Why is whining about it such a benefit to you? Why can't you just walk away from it? Have you nothing else going on in your life? Why is it so seemingly difficult for you to grasp that people who have "quit" but still troll forums ******** are an irritant to those who are trying to enjoy the game? What is it that you think your negativity is bringing to this community? We aren't SE. We can't fix your problems. This isn't even the right forum to be bringing them up if you're serious about SE reading them. Your problem is with SE, not us. Don't make it our problem.


He's whining about the game, you're whining about him whining about the game. And the beat goes on.
#44 Oct 27 2010 at 4:39 PM Rating: Default
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KristoFurwalken wrote:
Aurelius wrote:
preludes wrote:
Quote:
f you can't walk away from an $80 disappointment, you need a better job, k?


It's not the money it's the principle (although if you have a better job to the point money doesnt matter feel free to send me that $80 I wasted on this game) and I did walk away from the game, doesnt mean I'll stop posting on the forums about what I think of it though. They ruined a game I wanted to be a part of and so I like expressing my annoyance at it, if you don't like that...well, too bad, k?


Why? Why is whining about it such a benefit to you? Why can't you just walk away from it? Have you nothing else going on in your life? Why is it so seemingly difficult for you to grasp that people who have "quit" but still troll forums ******** are an irritant to those who are trying to enjoy the game? What is it that you think your negativity is bringing to this community? We aren't SE. We can't fix your problems. This isn't even the right forum to be bringing them up if you're serious about SE reading them. Your problem is with SE, not us. Don't make it our problem.


He's whining about the game, you're whining about him whining about the game. And the beat goes on.


And you're whining about him whining about the other guy whining about the game.
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#45 Oct 27 2010 at 4:43 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Why? Why is whining about it such a benefit to you? Why can't you just walk away from it? Have you nothing else going on in your life? Why is it so seemingly difficult for you to grasp that people who have "quit" but still troll forums ******** are an irritant to those who are trying to enjoy the game? What is it that you think your negativity is bringing to this community? We aren't SE. We can't fix your problems. This isn't even the right forum to be bringing them up if you're serious about SE reading them. Your problem is with SE, not us. Don't make it our problem.


This forum is around 95% normal game discussion, happy joy posts. The majority of people posting negative stuff are not trolling, they arent posting this stuff to just get a response out of others its genuine annoyance at the game they play or wanted to play.

A better question is if you are so steadfast in your enjoynment of the game, why does it bother you and why do so many agree with the negative posts, ignore them? Try make a negative post on another popular game forum and see how that goes, on here many agree with them.

If you want to forbid any negative discussion on a forum and make it just how you want it to be, only positive things and basically to ignore the crap then say that, there are plenty of rabid blind fanboi run forums out there. Good part of having a fanbase to a popular game is some of them will buy it and put up with anything, the bad part is that the ones that wont get really ****** off about them treating the thing they are fans of like crap.

If this was a no name game they ruined nobody would care and the small minority that enjoyed it would be all prancing around wearing pretty bonnets saying how utterly lovely everything is, they ruined an important title and the fans that arent so easily swayed are going to be more vocal about it. If it wasnt a pretty widley held viewpoint the posts would of died out long ago.
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#46 Oct 27 2010 at 4:43 PM Rating: Decent
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HallieXIV wrote:
KristoFurwalken wrote:
Aurelius wrote:
preludes wrote:
Quote:
f you can't walk away from an $80 disappointment, you need a better job, k?


It's not the money it's the principle (although if you have a better job to the point money doesnt matter feel free to send me that $80 I wasted on this game) and I did walk away from the game, doesnt mean I'll stop posting on the forums about what I think of it though. They ruined a game I wanted to be a part of and so I like expressing my annoyance at it, if you don't like that...well, too bad, k?


Why? Why is whining about it such a benefit to you? Why can't you just walk away from it? Have you nothing else going on in your life? Why is it so seemingly difficult for you to grasp that people who have "quit" but still troll forums ******** are an irritant to those who are trying to enjoy the game? What is it that you think your negativity is bringing to this community? We aren't SE. We can't fix your problems. This isn't even the right forum to be bringing them up if you're serious about SE reading them. Your problem is with SE, not us. Don't make it our problem.


He's whining about the game, you're whining about him whining about the game. And the beat goes on.


And you're whining about him whining about the other guy whining about the game.


And you're pointing out the whining about the whining about the whining.

***** it, let's all just go get some beers.

Edit:
Preludes wrote:
This forum is around 95% normal game discussion, happy joy posts.


Where'd that figure come from? Seems like most posts are "Help me with game mechanics", "SE's posted something on Lodestone", "Servers are down/Are the servers down?". Whenever a happy joy post gets posted it gets pooped on by negative replies.

Edited, Oct 27th 2010 5:45pm by Gadhelyn
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#47 Oct 27 2010 at 4:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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***** it, let's all just go get some beers


Agreed. Let's see...... Beer is a food/beverage item soooo... Let's all head to the Battlecraft Wards for beers?
#48 Oct 27 2010 at 4:49 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Where'd that figure come from? Seems like most posts are "Help me with game mechanics", "SE's posted something on Lodestone", "Servers are down/Are the servers down?". Whenever a happy joy post gets posted it gets pooped on by negative replies.


Happy joy was the wrong term but I meant normal posts you get on every other forum based on a game.
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#49 Oct 27 2010 at 4:55 PM Rating: Default
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Gadhelyn wrote:
Here's the 2 types of vocally negative people I've seen:

Plays the game (or did at one point), but wants improvements are those that play the game and want things like function Wards if not an AH, better UI, more content, or whatnot. Some offer these suggestions in the form of constructive criticism, others offer these suggestions in a more negative fashion (although they'd probably get SE to listen better if it were polite!). This type includes the most harmless in terms of making others negative (if you can play the game in its current state, knowing that it isn't perfect, then you can still have fun playing).

Plays the game, but not for long, absolutely hates the game are those that confuse me. All these people do are complain about the game and say they don't like it, and will probably cancel their subscription soon. The people who I described as having the "If I can't play the game to my satisfaction, no one will!" attitude. While their dream is that their complaining is going to eventually going to hurt SE, they don't realize that this means taking away a source of enjoyment for others.


FTFY. Should probably add a third group for trolls.

Edited, Oct 27th 2010 5:56pm by Ranzera
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#50 Oct 27 2010 at 5:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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The sad part about all this is that it really is working as intended..

Make no mistake, the people who are complaining really did want this game to be successful. Like me, they are slightly disappointed (even angered) that SE took this "responsibility" so lightly. It's as if they are out of touch with their playerbase. (...)

I can't really say I wanted to see XI-2, but I did want to see the improvements they would have made upon it. Like when you hold a team meeting to discuss lessons learned. I would have loved to be sitting in on that meeting.. "The AH was a waste of time. The players got more use out of the Bazaar system" and "Mailboxes were primarily utilized by RMT.. We should not implement that (for now/at all)".

SE has gone completely downhill on the entire FF franchise as of late and still some people feel that the criticism is unwarranted even though it would be the same if any body else had delivered such an unfinished product.



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#51 Oct 27 2010 at 6:07 PM Rating: Decent
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preludes wrote:
A better question is if you are so steadfast in your enjoynment of the game, why does it bother you and why do so many agree with the negative posts, ignore them? Try make a negative post on another popular game forum and see how that goes, on here many agree with them.


I've canceled my subscription pending certain changes I need to see from SE before they're getting any more of my money, but I continue to play it and enjoy the things I don't mind about the game while trying to make sure I haven't missed something important when it comes to the things I don't like. Except that I don't come here and start new threads to whine, I don't defend my right to whine, and I make an effort to make a contribution that is helpful to the community instead of sucking the life out of it.

Don't put words in my mouth, don't assume anything about me, and don't try to make this about me. You dodged my questions to you, so answer them or shut the **** up. Your problem is with SE, not us. Don't try to make your problems ours.
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