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A Warning About the Complaints DepartmentFollow

#52 Oct 27 2010 at 6:29 PM Rating: Decent
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westsidepatone wrote:
Quote:
***** it, let's all just go get some beers
Agreed. Let's see...... Beer is a food/beverage item soooo... Let's all head to the Battlecraft Wards for beers?
I lol'd.
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#53 Oct 27 2010 at 6:32 PM Rating: Good
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Aurelius wrote:
Your problem is with SE, not us. Don't try to make your problems ours.


I would agree with this statement if SE actually listened to our problems. Since they aren't players are going to a place where most likely it will be heard, and having the negative response from real people with emotions is usually much better than the copied reply from SE.

So you're right, the problem is with SE, but when they don't want to accept that there is a problem we are put into a difficult situation, shut up and never be heard or do what it takes to be heard, like going on these forums. I'm not saying it is the right way, but most feel it is the only way they are getting somewhere, because at least they have an actual person talking to them now.
#54 Oct 27 2010 at 7:20 PM Rating: Decent
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burtonsnow wrote:
Aurelius wrote:
Your problem is with SE, not us. Don't try to make your problems ours.


I would agree with this statement if SE actually listened to our problems. Since they aren't players are going to a place where most likely it will be heard, and having the negative response from real people with emotions is usually much better than the copied reply from SE.


Oh, get a grip. They don't listen to us? We complained about the UI. What are they working on? We complained about the lag. What are they working on? We complained about anima cost and travel times. What are they working on? We complained that the market wards were extremely difficult to find things in. What are they working on? They don't listen? Get a ******* clue. Or are you trying to tell me that the sole reason you're of the impression that they don't listen is because they're not adding an auction house? Is that it? "We said this and this and this and you're fixing all those things but you're not adding an auction house so obviously you don't listen."

Seriously. It's old. When you look at all of the things they're working on and then some numpty like you comes along and claims they don't listen, you look stupid. And cynical. And yes, we need as many stupid cynics as we can get around here because it just makes the place so **** cheery.

Do you have any idea how much of a primadonna you sound like?

"We brought you the orange, apple, banana, and mango you asked for!"
"GODDAMIT!! I asked for orange, apple, banana, mango, and KIWI you MORON!! YOU'RE USELESS!!"
#55Sir mokatu, Posted: Oct 27 2010 at 7:32 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) OMG SE better listen. What will they EVER DO without your money??? We're doomed everyone!!! OH NO WTFPOPSICLE!!
#56 Oct 27 2010 at 7:42 PM Rating: Default
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Since when does anyones opion ever go uninfluinced? History shows facts that go against your little troll here dude!! Religion, politics, mariage and friendships will disagree with your pittiful little one liner.. Grow up.

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Or... we could have our own opinions and not be influenced by people we dont even know on the internet....

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#57 Oct 27 2010 at 7:51 PM Rating: Decent
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Aurelius wrote:
Oh, get a grip. They don't listen to us? We complained about the UI. What are they working on? We complained about the lag. What are they working on? We complained about anima cost and travel times. What are they working on? We complained that the market wards were extremely difficult to find things in. What are they working on? They don't listen? Get a @#%^ing clue. Or are you trying to tell me that the sole reason you're of the impression that they don't listen is because they're not adding an auction house? Is that it? "We said this and this and this and you're fixing all those things but you're not adding an auction house so obviously you don't listen."

Seriously. It's old. When you look at all of the things they're working on and then some numpty like you comes along and claims they don't listen, you look stupid. And cynical. And yes, we need as many stupid cynics as we can get around here because it just makes the place so **** cheery.

Do you have any idea how much of a primadonna you sound like?

"We brought you the orange, apple, banana, and mango you asked for!"
"GODDAMIT!! I asked for orange, apple, banana, mango, and KIWI you MORON!! YOU'RE USELESS!!"


You know what you are right, it is my perception that they aren't listening. But I have that perception because SE is not taking action after listening. So they may be listening and compiling a large list of concerns, but until I see action on these concerns it will be my perception that SE does not listen. SE has done little about the UI in MONTHS of complaints, from alpha on (which I was there since stage 1 beta, so I can only base my opinion from that time period onwards, even after reading posts from the alpha phase). SE did nothing about a searchable item database after it was brought up multiple times as well in beta. I could really continue but once again we already know all the things SE has had time to change but hasn't.

All I am basing my opinion off of is SEs actions, and up until this point IMO SE doesn't seem to be listening due to their lack of action. They can continue to say they are doing all these things, but until I see some real progress forward I am not going to change my opinion. So many of these little things could have been fixed on day one with simple coding changes but they haven't been, and as such i've continued to maintain my stance.
#58 Oct 27 2010 at 8:01 PM Rating: Good
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burtonsnow wrote:
All I am basing my opinion off of is SEs actions, and up until this point IMO SE doesn't seem to be listening due to their lack of action. They can continue to say they are doing all these things, but until I see some real progress forward I am not going to change my opinion. So many of these little things could have been fixed on day one with simple coding changes but they haven't been, and as such i've continued to maintain my stance.


They've given us their word that the majority of our complaints will be addressed in two updates in November and December. Now I agree that only a fool would take someone's words as truth in this day and age, but I think we can at least give SE the benefit of the doubt here. 1-2 month turnaround for major MMO revisions is pretty good in this industry and SE hasn't given us reason to think they're flat out lying about the Nov. and Dec. updates.

So while we haven't yet seen the fruits of these "actions" SE is no doubt working on them as we speak. Also, unless you're intimately familiar with the coding involved in FFXIV, I don't think it's fair to say anything is a "simple" fix. It very well could be, but it also could be a very complicated fix with repercussions. I know I would hate it if someone who knows zero about my job telling me it's simple.

We won't know for sure until the updates go live, and I'm sure they wont be perfect, but SE IS trying to fix FFXIV.
#59 Oct 27 2010 at 8:02 PM Rating: Default
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burtonsnow wrote:
You know what you are right, it is my perception that they aren't listening. But I have that perception because SE is not taking action after listening.


Again, ********* What do you mean they're not taking action? They've flat out told us what they're working on. How many times do you need to be told that the changes we've asked for don't happen with a click of the heels and a snap of the fingers before it sinks in for you? No, really.

How many freaking times do you need to be told that the changes we've asked for don't happen overnight?

They've said they're working on them and they've given us a timeframe for when we can start to expect to see them. Specifically, the end of November. Making major changes to a videogame is a tad bit more complicated than changing your goddam desktop wallpaper, sport. You can't say they don't listen. You can't. It's a stupid, stupid statement to make at this point. You can complain all day long that they haven't made the changes yet, but in light of what they've told us about their plans, you cannot say they don't listen.
#60 Oct 27 2010 at 8:05 PM Rating: Good
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Issues that were here since alpha testing is what is killing any respect for the SE dev. Fundamental function like the UI, market, and chat is uterly a joke. They got feedback but didn't listen. They are now rushing to fix what should have been fix the first time people said it was a problem. They (SE) only know and speak one thing. $$$$Money$$$$!!!!!!!!!!!!! The last two days there was about 1000k players on my server. 600 of which were in the city(about 200 per city). That leaves about 400 players actualy doing stuff. This low numbers is what is bringing about change.

So yea SE devs were not listening until they heard the sound of money being sucked out of the game.
#61 Oct 27 2010 at 8:19 PM Rating: Good
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Aurelius wrote:
How many freaking times do you need to be told that the changes we've asked for don't happen overnight?

They've said they're working on them and they've given us a timeframe for when we can start to expect to see them. Specifically, the end of November. Making major changes to a videogame is a tad bit more complicated than changing your goddam desktop wallpaper, sport. You can't say they don't listen. You can't. It's a stupid, stupid statement to make at this point. You can complain all day long that they haven't made the changes yet, but in light of what they've told us about their plans, you cannot say they don't listen.


I don't care to be told, I care to see these changes. I care to know details about the changes they are going to make. All they give us is a list of changes that will be made and slap a date on it. There is no breakdown of how some of these new changes are going to work. We just have to expect a company that put out a subpar product will somehow not ***** up the changes again. Until details about the changes are announced or the changes are released I will not take their word for it, plain and simple.

I can say whatever I want, and I can justify it however I want, just like many people say they like this game/hate this game and justify it with whatever facts they use. Like i've said until SE changes their actions I will continue to have this perception....unfortunately I wish you could have done something to change my perception, because you seem more passionate about the game than SE. Only SE has the ability to do so, I REALLY hope they deliver.


Also, having helped my friend code and build an MMO for his personal profile then yes I can say that I do know to some extent the level of depth that is required to make changes to an MMO. I'd rather them take down servers for a day so some of the simpler changes could be made.


*edit to comment on Hydra*
You know I do commend them for attempting to make changes. I just wish they would be more assertive with their statements. Too much tippy toeing around.

Edited, Oct 27th 2010 10:23pm by burtonsnow
#62 Oct 27 2010 at 8:29 PM Rating: Decent
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burtonsnow wrote:
*edit to comment on Hydra*
You know I do commend them for attempting to make changes. I just wish they would be more assertive with their statements. Too much tippy toeing around.


Considering how monstrous of a change this is from their communication during FFXI I'm willing to give them more time to improve. Nothing happens overnight, and I'm honestly very excited and hopeful that this level of communication will continue if not improve throughout the life of FFXIV. Of the two MMOs I've played FFXI had the best game mechanics and LoTRO had the best developer communication. FFXIV is looking to have elements of both.
#63 Oct 27 2010 at 8:34 PM Rating: Decent
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I honestly had a moment where I can compare to reading the complainer threads, and myself also complaining. Once Square started answering and saying that they were planning things, my complaints have been put on the back-burner. The 30 day additional play also helped. At the time I bounced to LOTRO and was looking towards cataclysm. I was pretty much done with FFXIV. I am currently back in game and think that it has a ton of potential. But if they have communication issues about updates and general disregard to the users in the next two weeks, then I imagine most will move on at this point.

I really don't think they understand that being conserved and not talking about updates actually hurts them worse than anything else.

Imagine being on a road trip and your car breaks down. The local mechanic tells you that there is nothing to worry about. The part that your car needs will be here when it gets here. Relax and stop using your car, and enjoy our fine town. Two weeks go by and you are running out of money and staying at a rat hole motel. You go to the mechanic and ask what is the status and he replies. Oh I really can't put a time-frame on when the part will arrive or when I can find the time to fix your car. And I forgot to tell you that I am going on vacation and will be gone for the next month. I leave tomorrow.

I am not hating on the game itself. I am hating on those that would publish a MMO and then barely communicate to their player base. They have made decent efforts recently and I hope it continues.



Edited, Oct 27th 2010 10:40pm by Parsalyn

Edited, Oct 27th 2010 10:44pm by Parsalyn
#64 Oct 27 2010 at 8:37 PM Rating: Good
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Hydragyrum wrote:
burtonsnow wrote:
*edit to comment on Hydra*
You know I do commend them for attempting to make changes. I just wish they would be more assertive with their statements. Too much tippy toeing around.


Considering how monstrous of a change this is from their communication during FFXI I'm willing to give them more time to improve. Nothing happens overnight, and I'm honestly very excited and hopeful that this level of communication will continue if not improve throughout the life of FFXIV. Of the two MMOs I've played FFXI had the best game mechanics and LoTRO had the best developer communication. FFXIV is looking to have elements of both.


I agree it all needs to be taken into perspective, and SE has definitely been much better at keeping the player base informed. When I think about how I run my company though, hearing responses like this would make me sick to my stomach. To me customer service is the most important aspect of any company and once again to me, SE does not deliver enough to give me the feeling of good customer service.
#65 Oct 27 2010 at 8:43 PM Rating: Decent
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burtonsnow wrote:
Aurelius wrote:
How many freaking times do you need to be told that the changes we've asked for don't happen overnight?

They've said they're working on them and they've given us a timeframe for when we can start to expect to see them. Specifically, the end of November. Making major changes to a videogame is a tad bit more complicated than changing your goddam desktop wallpaper, sport. You can't say they don't listen. You can't. It's a stupid, stupid statement to make at this point. You can complain all day long that they haven't made the changes yet, but in light of what they've told us about their plans, you cannot say they don't listen.


I don't care to be told, I care to see these changes. I care to know details about the changes they are going to make. All they give us is a list of changes that will be made and slap a date on it. There is no breakdown of how some of these new changes are going to work. We just have to expect a company that put out a subpar product will somehow not ***** up the changes again. Until details about the changes are announced or the changes are released I will not take their word for it, plain and simple.


That's not how it works, sport. You don't get to make baseless accusations ("They don't listen") because you're not happy with what they've done. They've given you a time frame and now you either modify your kvetch, shut your yap, or come across as stupid. There are no other options. Developers don't set release dates. Managers do. Managers don't create games. Developers do. I can all but guarantee you it wasn't the development team who made the call to ship XIV when they did but it's the development team taking the flak for it. They're working on it.

Again, you're talking like you're under the assumption that throughout the testing SE had a team of developers just sitting around with their thumbs up their asses instead of working on the game. It's a safe bet that was as far from the case as you could imagine. I would expect that most of the people on the dev team were putting in some pretty extreme hours trying to get the game ready to ship and then the management dropped the release date bomb on them. It's not that they "didn't listen". It's that they had their hands full and they couldn't get done everything they wanted to have done. I'll bet Komoto and crew were devastated to find that they were being told to have the game ready to go live by Sept 22. Nobody can invest five years of their life into something and then watch it forced out the door in the state XIV was in. But you cynical bastards don't think that way. The world revolves around you and what you want and what you expect and anyone who doesn't measure up is a lesser individual, amirite?

Shut up already. Your whine is done. It was done weeks ago.


Edited, Oct 27th 2010 7:49pm by Aurelius
#66 Oct 27 2010 at 9:17 PM Rating: Good
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Aurelius wrote:
burtonsnow wrote:
Aurelius wrote:
How many freaking times do you need to be told that the changes we've asked for don't happen overnight?

They've said they're working on them and they've given us a timeframe for when we can start to expect to see them. Specifically, the end of November. Making major changes to a videogame is a tad bit more complicated than changing your goddam desktop wallpaper, sport. You can't say they don't listen. You can't. It's a stupid, stupid statement to make at this point. You can complain all day long that they haven't made the changes yet, but in light of what they've told us about their plans, you cannot say they don't listen.


I don't care to be told, I care to see these changes. I care to know details about the changes they are going to make. All they give us is a list of changes that will be made and slap a date on it. There is no breakdown of how some of these new changes are going to work. We just have to expect a company that put out a subpar product will somehow not ***** up the changes again. Until details about the changes are announced or the changes are released I will not take their word for it, plain and simple.


That's not how it works, sport. You don't get to make baseless accusations ("They don't listen") because you're not happy with what they've done. They've given you a time frame and now you either modify your kvetch, shut your yap, or come across as stupid. There are no other options. Developers don't set release dates. Managers do. Managers don't create games. Developers do. I can all but guarantee you it wasn't the development team who made the call to ship XIV when they did but it's the development team taking the flak for it. They're working on it.

Again, you're talking like you're under the assumption that throughout the testing SE had a team of developers just sitting around with their thumbs up their asses instead of working on the game. It's a safe bet that was as far from the case as you could imagine. I would expect that most of the people on the dev team were putting in some pretty extreme hours trying to get the game ready to ship and then the management dropped the release date bomb on them. It's not that they "didn't listen". It's that they had their hands full and they couldn't get done everything they wanted to have done. I'll bet Komoto and crew were devastated to find that they were being told to have the game ready to go live by Sept 22. Nobody can invest five years of their life into something and then watch it forced out the door in the state XIV was in. But you cynical bastards don't think that way. The world revolves around you and what you want and what you expect and anyone who doesn't measure up is a lesser individual, amirite?

Shut up already. Your whine is done. It was done weeks ago.


Edited, Oct 27th 2010 7:49pm by Aurelius


And then they released a game that was built around DirectX9. This framework was released in 2002. Sure, things take time for the developers to compensate for new technology (eight years old?). So really I am not attacking either of you or anyone. The end result is a choppy game that cripples most PC systems. It is so burdened by the code and trying to find a little piece of enjoyment in the game is very difficult to find at times. I really think that they should have waited and started developing the game today. Then release the game 5 years from now when we have directx17.

/sarcasm off... or perhaps it is still turned on

I have played a lot of different games in the past year, with lot's of requirements for the game. This is the only one that looks "decent" and brings any system to its knees for no apparent reason.



#67Aurelius, Posted: Oct 27 2010 at 9:38 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Ya, ya. And what do you think they were referring to when they mentioned "performance smoothing" on the list of things they're working on?
#68 Oct 27 2010 at 9:44 PM Rating: Good
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Curveball
westsidepatone wrote:
That being said, I like this game. More to the point I desperately WANT to like this game. But after reading thru the Complaints Department I am beginning to think my desperate need to like this game is strangling my actual opinion. Reading that endless stream of grievances, both legitimate and groundless, has brought what I was trying so hard to ignore acutely into unwanted focus. Now all the little peccadilloes(yikes!) are right up in my friggin grill everytime I log on. So tread carefully, new and old alike, when gazing upon those complaint threads because they are more subversive than they seem.


Punchline
westsidepatone wrote:
Now seriously, where's the AH in Ul'Dah?


Yes, very nice work on sidestepping that thread so you can get your own complaint thread listed in the general discussion forum.
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#69 Oct 27 2010 at 10:19 PM Rating: Good
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Aurelius wrote:
Parsalyn wrote:
And then they released a game that was built around DirectX9. This framework was released in 2002. Sure, things take time for the developers to compensate for new technology (eight years old?). So really I am not attacking either of you or anyone. The end result is a choppy game that cripples most PC systems. It is so burdened by the code and trying to find a little piece of enjoyment in the game is very difficult to find at times. I really think that they should have waited and started developing the game today. Then release the game 5 years from now when we have directx17.

/sarcasm off... or perhaps it is still turned on

I have played a lot of different games in the past year, with lot's of requirements for the game. This is the only one that looks "decent" and brings any system to its knees for no apparent reason.





Ya, ya. And what do you think they were referring to when they mentioned "performance smoothing" on the list of things they're working on?


If they are really working on performance smoothing, then why does all of the bad parts of the game perform exactly like FFXI? Between interactions from npc's to movement, and on to general gameplay, why do so many bad parts shine through like you are playing FFXI in all of its failing parts. It really reminds me of a FFXI being lifted before completion and then patchwork is added to make it into a new (updated) game. The problem is that the framework is the same and what most don't realize is that it is so outdated that no multiplayer game would consider using the system that they have, let alone a MMO.
#70 Oct 27 2010 at 10:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Curveball

westsidepatone wrote:
That being said, I like this game. More to the point I desperately WANT to like this game. But after reading thru the Complaints Department I am beginning to think my desperate need to like this game is strangling my actual opinion. Reading that endless stream of grievances, both legitimate and groundless, has brought what I was trying so hard to ignore acutely into unwanted focus. Now all the little peccadilloes(yikes!) are right up in my friggin grill everytime I log on. So tread carefully, new and old alike, when gazing upon those complaint threads because they are more subversive than they seem.

Punchline

westsidepatone wrote:
Now seriously, where's the AH in Ul'Dah?

Yes, very nice work on sidestepping that thread so you can get your own complaint thread listed in the general discussion forum.


I seriously meant that to be brief moment of levity after a somewhat stern post and had no intention of making this a rant about the Market Wards. I hope your response was at least partly based in jest because it made me chortle.
#71 Oct 27 2010 at 11:17 PM Rating: Decent
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Not that I've been accused of whining, though I have plenty of negative things to say about SE and FFXIV. I just want to go on the record saying that as someone who has made game design theory a hobby for a long time, pointing out flaws and potential solutions is a hobby of mine that I very much enjoy.

And as something of a ****, being something of a **** about it is another hobby of mine that I very much enjoy. But I'm trying to quit. Swear to god.
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Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#72 Oct 27 2010 at 11:22 PM Rating: Default
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Parsalyn wrote:
Quote:
Ya, ya. And what do you think they were referring to when they mentioned "performance smoothing" on the list of things they're working on?


If they are really working on performance smoothing, then why does all of the bad parts of the game perform exactly like FFXI? Between interactions from npc's to movement, and on to general gameplay, why do so many bad parts shine through like you are playing FFXI in all of its failing parts. It really reminds me of a FFXI being lifted before completion and then patchwork is added to make it into a new (updated) game. The problem is that the framework is the same and what most don't realize is that it is so outdated that no multiplayer game would consider using the system that they have, let alone a MMO.


I'm just going to go out on a limb here and answer your question by saying they're working on it. See, your question would have merit if they had said they had addressed it already. They haven't. They've said they're working on it.

Do you see how that works?

When someone says they're working on it and you say, "Well if you're working on it, why isn't it fixed yet?" you look like an idiot. Listen. Pay attention. Be less dense. It works wonders. That is, unless you like manufacturing your own disappointment, in which case fill yer boots...just do it elsewhere, k?
#73 Oct 28 2010 at 8:30 AM Rating: Good
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Aurelius wrote:
That's not how it works, sport. You don't get to make baseless accusations ("They don't listen") because you're not happy with what they've done. They've given you a time frame and now you either modify your kvetch, shut your yap, or come across as stupid. There are no other options. Developers don't set release dates. Managers do. Managers don't create games. Developers do. I can all but guarantee you it wasn't the development team who made the call to ship XIV when they did but it's the development team taking the flak for it. They're working on it.

Again, you're talking like you're under the assumption that throughout the testing SE had a team of developers just sitting around with their thumbs up their asses instead of working on the game. It's a safe bet that was as far from the case as you could imagine. I would expect that most of the people on the dev team were putting in some pretty extreme hours trying to get the game ready to ship and then the management dropped the release date bomb on them. It's not that they "didn't listen". It's that they had their hands full and they couldn't get done everything they wanted to have done. I'll bet Komoto and crew were devastated to find that they were being told to have the game ready to go live by Sept 22. Nobody can invest five years of their life into something and then watch it forced out the door in the state XIV was in. But you cynical bastards don't think that way. The world revolves around you and what you want and what you expect and anyone who doesn't measure up is a lesser individual, amirite?

Shut up already. Your whine is done. It was done weeks ago.


Edited, Oct 27th 2010 7:49pm by Aurelius


What makes you think you can tell me what I can and can't do? I will and can continue to do so because IN MY EYES, SE has not listened. Let me just give a simple example to you...

It is 5pm at a household just before dinner, the kid asks, "Mom can we have chicken nuggets now I'm hungry?" The mom replies "I'm working on it, expect your food by 5:45". No mention of chicken nuggets, just that we will get our food and that it will be here in a little. SE is this exact way...you are correct they are saying they continue to make improvements, yet I have no PROOF what sort of changes will be made before they can be considered an improvement.

I'm not trying to say that SE hasn't been getting some things done, because obviously they put out a game (however complete it may be to you). But it just doesn't seem like they are there. I've never felt like I was talking to someone who cared at SE and maybe that is leaving the sour taste more in my mouth than anything, but in my personal experience they just don't have their ears and minds open to the feedback they receive. I'm sorry you feel differently but attacking me isn't going to change it, it will just make me think less of you.

have a good one bro.
#74 Oct 28 2010 at 9:26 AM Rating: Excellent
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Gadhelyn wrote:
Once again well said. I'm still confused why so many who do not enjoy the game and predict its failure are still playing.

That one's easy actually. The same 4 letter word even many of the games strongest supporters seem to basing some of their continued game play on..

Hope

The hope that the game will be what it could be. The hope that SE will make changes in a timely fashion. The hope that the person may reclaim the magic they felt in FFXI/WoW/LotR/Aion/WH/etc. Some are probably a little a more simplistic.. The hope they get their $50-$70 worth.

I think a fair number of the people here who aren't enjoying the game a whole lot would gladly eat their words about it being no good (or would revise them to the release of the game was no good) if that meant they could play what this game was supposed to have been/what they believed it would be.
#75 Oct 28 2010 at 10:33 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Again, you're talking like you're under the assumption that throughout the testing SE had a team of developers just sitting around with their thumbs up their asses instead of working on the game. It's a safe bet that was as far from the case as you could imagine. I would expect that most of the people on the dev team were putting in some pretty extreme hours trying to get the game ready to ship and then the management dropped the release date bomb on them. It's not that they "didn't listen". It's that they had their hands full and they couldn't get done everything they wanted to have done. I'll bet Komoto and crew were devastated to find that they were being told to have the game ready to go live by Sept 22. Nobody can invest five years of their life into something and then watch it forced out the door in the state XIV was in. But you cynical bastards don't think that way. The world revolves around you and what you want and what you expect and anyone who doesn't measure up is a lesser individual, amirite?


And I bet management figured with FIVE years in development that the developers had enough time to create something playable. How wrong they were eh?

While i'll admit that I know nothing about development of an MMO, XIV came out with less content than XI did some 7 years earlier. Why is that? Did the 5 years go purely into impeccable graphics? It sure seems so. Leves are basically just a step further than FoV in XI so that didn't take 5 years nor did the designs of the areas since most of that is copy/paste or even the towns which are for the most part incomplete. Even if you factor in a budget cut due to the global recession, things just seem totally off. SE funneled people AWAY from XI to solely work on this game and this is the best they could mount?

The question is really about where all those years of development went. Everything feels like a step backwards from XI as if this game was created in a time vaccuum away from that game. It's not like the game is polished but lacking in content, the situation is BOTH a lack of polish and a lack of content. SE is promising but we all know that there is no way SE is going to overhaul the interface AND be able to add huge blocks of content unless they have an ace up their sleeve.

It took YEARS for SE to polish XI and with how far back XIV is from XI, it will be years before XIV is the well polished and matured game it will undoubtedly be. The question remains: Will anyone be around to enjoy it?

Im pretty sure every fan is hoping that SE pulls a hail mary by December because they have one **** of a mountain to climb to simply get this MMO to be taken seriously. Games with less budget have done better out of the gate than this game.
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#76 Oct 28 2010 at 10:46 AM Rating: Good
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254 posts
First, congrats to the OP for starting a very thoughtful thread.

I'd like to address something that has already been brought up indirectly, which is, why do some people continue to play a game past the point where the game stopped being fun. Please do not misinterpret this to mean that I am under the assumption that no one finds FFXIV fun, therefore those still playing must be using some bad excuse to continue. Some people are at that point already here, however, and it's a phenomena that occurs to most MMO players at some point no matter what game you're talking about. The interesting thing is that this game does its best to ***** up every single one of them, and even those of us that are prone to carrying on are second-guessing ourselves.

The first reason people stick around past a game's due date is the relationships that you forge with other players. It has been pointed out long, long ago that at its core, MMOs are glorified chatrooms. The funny thing here is, this aspect of keeping your player base is so very hard to ***** up, yet Square-Enix came very close to doing it. You can't chat well while fighting. You can't chat well while crafting. Even basic commands like replying to a tell were botched at release. Party and Shell functions are half-baked and non-intuitive. Interpersonal relationships in an MMO are so important to an MMO's enjoyment, and in fact, could arguably be the most addictive factor to MMOs in general. How it could be handled so incompetently by a veteran team of game designers, I can't even fathom.

The second reason people may stick around is through brand loyalty. Square and Enix both have given many people, including myself, great enjoyment for decades. I'm the type of person who likes to reward companies for taking care of their customers, a sentiment that goes well beyond gaming. Unfortunately, Square-Enix squandered this, as well. On an anti-FFXIV video I saw on on Youtube, someone suggested through a comment that Squeenix should actively ask for feedback from the player base and actually have a form in-game to provide suggestions. They did, I responded, it was called Beta testing. They willfully ignored almost all of the constructive criticism. I need not go into another retread of this issue, but basically where XII and XIII was met with some skepticism and head-shaking by some with questions regarding the company's direction, XIV was met with widespread derision. I for one don't look at Square-Enix like I used to. I feel like I got burned badly on this one, and this will affect my decisions to buy their products going forward.

The third reason people stick around is the ol' carrot in front of the horse/donkey trick. The carrots in MMOs and Diablo-ish games alike are new abilities, new equipment, and unlocking new challenges. Square drops the ball here, too. There is no carrot for equipment whatsoever. There's very little in the way of unique drops to hunt, and as for the crafted stuff which is close to 100% of what's available to us at the moment, you can wear anything at all at level one. Sure it breaks more quickly and generally isn't as effective, but that's completely inconsequential. It still kills your incentive to level up. As far as unlocking new content goes... well what new content is there. One storyline that you continue every five or ten levels. Great.

All of this is indicative to why people are having to dig so deep to find reasons to stay, why there have been so many posters who are turning on each other over a new game, and why piling on is breeding more piling on. My answer is that you shouldn't blame each other. You can just thank Square.

Forgive me for a moment though, as I could not stop myself from addressing this comment:

HallieXIV wrote:
I wont let other people tell me whether I should or should not enjoy a game.

That said, I have started to try and avoid the flame threads simply because trying to post any positive comments or disagreeing with the assembled mass of sock puppets has destroyed my Karma.

Not that I care about such things necessarily but there is no point getting into heated debate about whether a game is any good or not based on the fact that it is an opinion and people are entitled to them.


Well, you must care about it, because you brought it up. Just so you know, this comment (listed in its entirety) that you made soon after...

HallieXIV wrote:
So says one of the most aggressive of all haters :-)


...I marked you down for and I am not a sockpuppet. It was a totally off-topic and inflammatory comment that was gracefully ignored by the person you aimed it at. Also, if you were just being sarcastic then you should be more clear. When you resort to ad hominem remarks, then the karma bombs are undoubtedly radioed in by yourself and not part of a terrorist attack.

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