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Ask the Devs 10/25 (Reasons to Level)Follow

#1 Oct 27 2010 at 3:40 PM Rating: Good
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I posted something similar to this in the ask the devs 10/25 thread but didn't really receive many repsonses or discussion. I thought I would amend and post in a thread of it's own.

DISCLAIMER: This is not a come join me quit thread, this is not a troll thread, this is not technically a complaint thread. This is a let's discuss and help me understand thread.

Am I the only one that finds the chart and explanation for "reasons to level" very alarming? I know the reason it was posted is because a bunch of knuckleheads asked "Well why should I even level?". However the chart and response that does show the available content has sort of knocked the wind out of me. Not to mention that they actually felt justified in their reasoning to even post a response and "reasons to level" section. Really? You felt the need to tell people why to level. I don't know of any other game that has ever done that.

I know that the rank specific quests are available for each job/class but I don't think most people want to have to level 8 jobs to level 20 just for new content (some will and I respect that but I feel that would be the minority not the majority). I know the NM's and new levequests are coming in december but is there really no other meaty content now available? No side quests, no AF (or equivalent quests), no quests to unlock airship. Basically at this point it seems the meat of the game is wash, rinse and repeat the same leve quests over and over.

And no I'm not talking about end game content so don't go there. I don't expect anything like that. I've read those arguments and posts.

I've been keeping my head down and chugging along but I'm starting to feel my head hitting the brick wall. I love the FF series and I loved FFXI. The potential of this game is great; it looks amazing and EVENTUALLY it will be. I kept telling myself there is unlockable content, new job classes, Ishgard, Chocos, etc. keep grinding man, keep grinding. However this chart and response from SE direct just crushed my spirits; utterly.

Is this my fault for building this game up in my mind for so long in the anticipation of what was to come? Even during the beta i kept telling myself new content/quests will be available upon release. The game released and I said the first big update will add more and unlock areas. The new updates are announced (don't get me wrong there's great stuff coming up) but I found myself saying when the PS3 version releases it will be firing on all cylinders. I'm beginning to think I've been kidding myself; there is no Wizard of OZ. The man behind the curtain has been revealed and he's just a sad little man. The magic seems gone.

Please don't take my post wrong. I'm not trying to tell anyone to quit or promote quitting at all. I've seen enough of that on this forum. I'm not trying to complain I'm trying to understand. I just don't know if I'm the only one feeling this way or if my own expectations unjustly have left this bad taste in my mouth. At times I love the game and at times I find myself feeling frustrated to no end and lacking motivation to keep on keeping on.

I honestly wish SE would just lay it all out on the table and say hey this is the directtion we're going and this is our timeline. I know that's not their style but I can wish right? I feel like they need to do this or they are gonna lose a lot of newby's and veteran's alike. Again only my opinion so please don't think i'm soap boxing with my FFXIV bible in hand.

Everyday I come here hoping for an exciting revelation that someone found that hidden gem. Everyday all I see is BLAH DIS GAME SUCKS, I QUIT, WHERE IS THE UBER END GAME AND I WANT NO BUGS but I have kept the faith and not lost hope. Even despite this website having to actually create a complaints section due to the amount of nay sayers. But when from the official website comes a list of in-game content that imo (everyone has one like an *** hole I know) just seems lack luster and they feel the need to justify reasons to level ; I've lost hope.

The lag, the bugs, the broken elements and even the UI I could live it's a new game and that S*&t happens but this lack of any content just gets me depressed.

Again I'm not trying to troll or be defaulted etc. If this thread seems out of place or inflammatory please lock it, move it if you must but I sincerely hope it doesn't happen and we can get some NON BS discussion. Not dumb A$$E$ ranting about the same tired BS. I simply would like to get opinions. Am I out of line? Do others feel like me especially pertaining to the content and "reasons to level" response? Is this typical of a launch? Is this my fault for hyping the game and epexcting too much?

P.S.: I don't agree with the, "if you don't like the game now quit and come back when there is content" agrument. I understand your sentiment however I feel many and most won't come back. I don't think that's what SE wants to do either is drive people off and have them come back later. Why would they come back just to be behind on their ranks for crafting classes and combat classes. I see that solution and argument alot and I just wanted to nip that one.

Sorry for the long post and if this seems like a rant I apologize /rant off. That was not my intention. Please discuss and let me know if I'm being unreasonable in my expectations.
#2 Oct 27 2010 at 3:51 PM Rating: Default
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People are complaining about there not being enough content. SE is hinting that there's a lot of content that most players haven't even begun to explore yet. I honestly think some people just need to play less, or to at least realize that if you're playing 6-8+ hours/day every day that you're going to run out of fresh and exciting things to do pretty quick. It's the same with any MMO. I do my best to get my 8 local ad 8 regional levequests done before every reset and during the week (and even often during the weekend) I find it tough. It takes a while. But if you're Joe Single-minded who ignores local levequests and just picks up 8 battlecraft leves every reset, I can see how it might get old pretty quick.

This isn't your typical MMO where you pick one class and bust through to the level cap and then stand around shaking your e-peen at everyone while you whine about a lack of endgame. Variety is key to never running out of things to do in FFXIV.
#3 Oct 27 2010 at 3:59 PM Rating: Decent
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or to at least realize that if you're playing 6-8+ hours/day every day that you're going to run out of fresh and exciting things to do pretty quick


ya see, no other (successful) MMO out there has this problem. However, most other modern MMO have PvP (with benefits, not that FFXI crap) and you can do that ALL DAY LONG and never run out of fun.
#4 Oct 27 2010 at 4:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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I agree completely. This game just feels like the shell of an MMO - full of nothing but potential and little substance. Even if they add more leves, in the end they are just variations of the same generic mindless quests. I miss the quests handed out by NPCs in FFXI, complete with cut scenes. It's pretty clear to me that they just whipped together the bare MMO essentials for release, with the hope that they would have time to flesh it out later. Even that statement is debatable however, as many standard MMO UI functions haven't even made it into the game yet.

I was thinking about this the other day. In FFXI I enjoyed leveling up because it meant I was better able help friends complete quests or gather rare items. In FFXIV there's no real need for any of that - so I'm really just leveling up for my own personal satisfaction, of which I'm currently getting none of from this game.
#5 Oct 27 2010 at 4:41 PM Rating: Decent
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sideways wrote:
Quote:
or to at least realize that if you're playing 6-8+ hours/day every day that you're going to run out of fresh and exciting things to do pretty quick


ya see, no other (successful) MMO out there has this problem. However, most other modern MMO have PvP (with benefits, not that FFXI crap) and you can do that ALL DAY LONG and never run out of fun.


Are you comparing a month old game to games that have been out at least a year?

If someone's gotten it yet, everyone accepts that someone in SE jumped the gun and had the game released too early. That makes these version updates (the ones with the content) what would have probably come out with the game at release if it were released later.
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#6 Oct 27 2010 at 4:48 PM Rating: Default
Aurelius wrote:

This isn't your typical MMO where you pick one class and bust through to the level cap and then stand around shaking your e-peen at everyone while you whine about a lack of endgame.



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#7 Oct 27 2010 at 5:08 PM Rating: Good
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I personally wanted this game to be great from the start but also had my reservations and wasn't expecting to like it 100% and yet I am still dissapointed, but still want to like it. I wanted to be high level so when my group of PS3 friends I can help them out, but leves are the main content and I'm hating them. I seriously fall asleep when I do leves (I'm not kidding). I do the 8 regional (in my case gathering) and the walking to places then hitting X (I use a controller) over and over watching text as I get items, and then I do my 8 local leves which is WORSE since I'm doing the same things, mindlessly hitting X on standard. Over, and over. And over.

Crafting is fine when I'm making stuff I can sell. But the grind PLUS the absolutly MINDLESS aspect of "quest" leves is killing it for me.

I don't think you're wromg and I read your entire post. The leves are the root of the problem IMO. The reset timer should be longer to force people to do stuff besides mindless "quests" for bigger exp boosts. I get 4-5 hours a day to play, and its just enough to get all 8 regional and local leves done (walking to camps, getting leves, getting to other cities to get leves for the jobs I'm focusing on, then getting to those camps too, doing the leves). It leaves little time to make me do other stuff. I know I could do other stuff and just forget about the leves, but the exp gain is so much better.
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#8 Oct 27 2010 at 5:46 PM Rating: Good
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Aurelius wrote:
People are complaining about there not being enough content. SE is hinting that there's a lot of content that most players haven't even begun to explore yet. I honestly think some people just need to play less, or to at least realize that if you're playing 6-8+ hours/day every day that you're going to run out of fresh and exciting things to do pretty quick. It's the same with any MMO. I do my best to get my 8 local ad 8 regional levequests done before every reset and during the week (and even often during the weekend) I find it tough. It takes a while. But if you're Joe Single-minded who ignores local levequests and just picks up 8 battlecraft leves every reset, I can see how it might get old pretty quick.

This isn't your typical MMO where you pick one class and bust through to the level cap and then stand around shaking your e-peen at everyone while you whine about a lack of endgame. Variety is key to never running out of things to do in FFXIV.


I nearly choked on this response. Are you serious? Are you even alive from the neck up? You have got to be kidding. This isn't your typical MMO, because it is boring as HECK! Most players haven't even begun to explore yet? BS.. I explored and there is NOTHING I could find and I'm not the only one. Could you please tell me what you have found interesting in your exploration?
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#9 Oct 27 2010 at 5:50 PM Rating: Good
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Aurelius wrote:
People are complaining about there not being enough content. SE is hinting that there's a lot of content that most players haven't even begun to explore yet. I honestly think some people just need to play less, or to at least realize that if you're playing 6-8+ hours/day every day that you're going to run out of fresh and exciting things to do pretty quick. It's the same with any MMO. I do my best to get my 8 local ad 8 regional levequests done before every reset and during the week (and even often during the weekend) I find it tough. It takes a while. But if you're Joe Single-minded who ignores local levequests and just picks up 8 battlecraft leves every reset, I can see how it might get old pretty quick.

This isn't your typical MMO where you pick one class and bust through to the level cap and then stand around shaking your e-peen at everyone while you whine about a lack of endgame. Variety is key to never running out of things to do in FFXIV.


People realy need to stop using this to defend SE for being lazy! Im sorry but evon EQ had content that could keep you bissy for 8+ hours a day an that was 15+ years ago. WoW never ran out of content and I played it for well over 8 hours a day when it came out.

There is no hiden content, If anything this is a copout they will use to hide the ninja patch that will add a few quest in the game later. "Oh it was always there you just never looked for it." the fact is they spent all there time making the game look good or trying to stop RMT and forgot what makes MMO's fun.

EQ you did not just go out and kill 500 hill giants. You went out and killed 500 hill giants to slow down the attack on the Over There. In WoW you did not just go out and kill 20 raptors. You went out and killed 20 raptors becuse they killed the farmers wife and he is paying to take them out. In FFXIV you just have a buring hate for rats and have no idea why. They give you no reason for the grind.
#10 Oct 27 2010 at 5:57 PM Rating: Good
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I won't deny the fact that a lack of some content is present in FFXIV, but I definitely have to agree with what Aurelius is getting at and say that the point of this game is not to pick a class, grind to the top, get all the best gear, dominate the PvP, beat all the bosses, etc. Yes, those things (will) exist in the game, but I don't think that was the emphasis. I don't think SE intended for players to just grind to the highest ranks in a month and be done. The point of being able to play multiple class is just that: To play multiple classes. Most of the people who complain about a lack of content seem to be the ones who focus on one aspect of the game and go go go go until they hit fatigue or get bored. Then go do some crafting, add into the economy, or go exploring. New content will come out eventually, so why not be prepared for it? If new content gets released that focuses primarily on crafting classes and you've spent all of your time fighting, you're going to miss out.

Most of us come from MMOs that are full of content and such because they've been out for so long, I think maybe we've been spoiled by that. So when we're presented by a new game that doesn't give us what we expected, we freak out a little bit. Rather than looking at the game in a new light, we look at FFXIV in the shadow of WoW or FFXI especially.

SE has also stated that levequests are supposed to provide a supplement to the game. The point of crafting, for example, if to craft items that others can use in battle, whom in turn battle things and get loot which they can give to crafters to craft. Gatherers add into the crafting business as well. Levequests are really nothing more than a way to get a nice boost of SP/EXP, learning some recipes (although that is almost unnecessary at this point), etc. Rather than do nothing but leves and log off, try going out and exploring or something. I just recently ran through areas like Coerthas and Mor Dhona and saw hardly anyone, even though I know there are people a higher level than I am who could be fighting there. Likewise there are dungeons like the Mun-Tuy Cellars or the Tam-Tara Deepcroft near Gridania that I never see people in. I don't know what levels they are, but they're still lying completely untouched.

I could, I understand, be completely wrong about everything, and even after exploring all these other areas you will still find absolutely nothing. But we won't really know until it's looked into more, and, given time, new content will be added anyway once areas are explored. In my mind (and this could very well be my own justifying why I play the game and not actually the truth - call it a delusion if you will), but SE seems to have made this game giving the users very little information about the world because they want it to be explored, rather than all of the information of the game to be handed to us. Like learning how the craft system works, or where to find certain items/enemies, etc. I think people are more annoyed by it because we're typically just given the information to work off of rather than have to figure things out ourselves. Again, could be completely crazy - in which case, sorry for the long post - but it's fun to think about it that way.
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#11 Oct 27 2010 at 6:03 PM Rating: Decent
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sideways wrote:
Quote:
or to at least realize that if you're playing 6-8+ hours/day every day that you're going to run out of fresh and exciting things to do pretty quick


ya see, no other (successful) MMO out there has this problem. However, most other modern MMO have PvP (with benefits, not that FFXI crap) and you can do that ALL DAY LONG and never run out of fun.


Anyone coming into FFXIV with any expectation or even hope of PvP of any kind at launch was naive. SE has never been about PvP. Ballista wasn't added into FFXI until years after launch. Most MMOs don't start off with all kinds of content. They start off with the bare bones and, if all goes well, they start adding content with future updates. All has not gone well with XIV, so the fact they're announcing any new content to be released by the end of the year at all is pretty decent of SE considering everything else they've got their hands full trying to fix.
#12 Oct 27 2010 at 6:09 PM Rating: Good
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ArkWeldwin wrote:
I won't deny the fact that a lack of some content is present in FFXIV, but I definitely have to agree with what Aurelius is getting at and say that the point of this game is not to pick a class, grind to the top, get all the best gear, dominate the PvP, beat all the bosses, etc. Yes, those things (will) exist in the game, but I don't think that was the emphasis. I don't think SE intended for players to just grind to the highest ranks in a month and be done. The point of being able to play multiple class is just that: To play multiple classes. Most of the people who complain about a lack of content seem to be the ones who focus on one aspect of the game and go go go go until they hit fatigue or get bored. Then go do some crafting, add into the economy, or go exploring. New content will come out eventually, so why not be prepared for it? If new content gets released that focuses primarily on crafting classes and you've spent all of your time fighting, you're going to miss out.

Most of us come from MMOs that are full of content and such because they've been out for so long, I think maybe we've been spoiled by that. So when we're presented by a new game that doesn't give us what we expected, we freak out a little bit. Rather than looking at the game in a new light, we look at FFXIV in the shadow of WoW or FFXI especially.

SE has also stated that levequests are supposed to provide a supplement to the game. The point of crafting, for example, if to craft items that others can use in battle, whom in turn battle things and get loot which they can give to crafters to craft. Gatherers add into the crafting business as well. Levequests are really nothing more than a way to get a nice boost of SP/EXP, learning some recipes (although that is almost unnecessary at this point), etc. Rather than do nothing but leves and log off, try going out and exploring or something. I just recently ran through areas like Coerthas and Mor Dhona and saw hardly anyone, even though I know there are people a higher level than I am who could be fighting there. Likewise there are dungeons like the Mun-Tuy Cellars or the Tam-Tara Deepcroft near Gridania that I never see people in. I don't know what levels they are, but they're still lying completely untouched.

I could, I understand, be completely wrong about everything, and even after exploring all these other areas you will still find absolutely nothing. But we won't really know until it's looked into more, and, given time, new content will be added anyway once areas are explored. In my mind (and this could very well be my own justifying why I play the game and not actually the truth - call it a delusion if you will), but SE seems to have made this game giving the users very little information about the world because they want it to be explored, rather than all of the information of the game to be handed to us. Like learning how the craft system works, or where to find certain items/enemies, etc. I think people are more annoyed by it because we're typically just given the information to work off of rather than have to figure things out ourselves. Again, could be completely crazy - in which case, sorry for the long post - but it's fun to think about it that way.


Thats just it. ATM there is nothing to do but grind. I don't care how many jobs you lvl you are still grinding. It dose not matter if its one job to 50 or 10 jobs to 20 its still a grind! Sure you can go do some crafting but gess what. thats just more grinding. Theres no story behind it.

We are spoiled on games like WoW becuse they shiped with more content than you could see in the time it took them to put out the first expantion. I have been in a few of the so called dungens in FFXIV and all you see is more rats. Content is not just end-game but also the car that drives the player to the end-game. ATM FFXIV has none. A few main story quest every 5 or so ranks or a guild quest every 10 ranks realy dose not fill out the time you spend playing this game.


Edited, Oct 27th 2010 8:11pm by Sethern79
#13 Oct 27 2010 at 6:10 PM Rating: Good
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ArkWeldwin wrote:
I won't deny the fact that a lack of some content is present in FFXIV, but I definitely have to agree with what Aurelius is getting at and say that the point of this game is not to pick a class, grind to the top, get all the best gear, dominate the PvP, beat all the bosses, etc. Yes, those things (will) exist in the game, but I don't think that was the emphasis. I don't think SE intended for players to just grind to the highest ranks in a month and be done. The point of being able to play multiple class is just that: To play multiple classes. Most of the people who complain about a lack of content seem to be the ones who focus on one aspect of the game and go go go go until they hit fatigue or get bored. Then go do some crafting, add into the economy, or go exploring. New content will come out eventually, so why not be prepared for it? If new content gets released that focuses primarily on crafting classes and you've spent all of your time fighting, you're going to miss out.

Most of us come from MMOs that are full of content and such because they've been out for so long, I think maybe we've been spoiled by that. So when we're presented by a new game that doesn't give us what we expected, we freak out a little bit. Rather than looking at the game in a new light, we look at FFXIV in the shadow of WoW or FFXI especially.

SE has also stated that levequests are supposed to provide a supplement to the game. The point of crafting, for example, if to craft items that others can use in battle, whom in turn battle things and get loot which they can give to crafters to craft. Gatherers add into the crafting business as well. Levequests are really nothing more than a way to get a nice boost of SP/EXP, learning some recipes (although that is almost unnecessary at this point), etc. Rather than do nothing but leves and log off, try going out and exploring or something. I just recently ran through areas like Coerthas and Mor Dhona and saw hardly anyone, even though I know there are people a higher level than I am who could be fighting there. Likewise there are dungeons like the Mun-Tuy Cellars or the Tam-Tara Deepcroft near Gridania that I never see people in. I don't know what levels they are, but they're still lying completely untouched.

I could, I understand, be completely wrong about everything, and even after exploring all these other areas you will still find absolutely nothing. But we won't really know until it's looked into more, and, given time, new content will be added anyway once areas are explored. In my mind (and this could very well be my own justifying why I play the game and not actually the truth - call it a delusion if you will), but SE seems to have made this game giving the users very little information about the world because they want it to be explored, rather than all of the information of the game to be handed to us. Like learning how the craft system works, or where to find certain items/enemies, etc. I think people are more annoyed by it because we're typically just given the information to work off of rather than have to figure things out ourselves. Again, could be completely crazy - in which case, sorry for the long post - but it's fun to think about it that way.


2 weeks ago i was thinking this way, but sadly its just not matching up to reality for me. 14 is just a big sandbox atm. Sandboxes are fun to play in for short periods of time, but the sad fact is there is little to no motivation to stick around, other than a handful of storyline/class quests that require serious grinding to take part in.


As for exploring, i did a fair share of wandering, and i came to the conclusion that very little thought went into building the zones. They honestly look like they were made with an automated program that randomly generates dungeons/levels/zones from a pool of modular landscape pieces. I dont know. Maybe i'll go check out that cool tower thats in mordhona or coerthas or wherever. maybe something will actually happen. but that's the problem. nothing ever really happens in this game.

give it a year. for now, there's fallout new vegas. maybe i'l even see how things are doing in vanadiel.

Edited, Oct 27th 2010 8:10pm by Llester
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#14 Oct 27 2010 at 6:17 PM Rating: Decent
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I agree this game is hopeless..... It's not for the casual gamer.... The market is redicoulous! The economy is SCREWED! You have to GRIND to get anywhere which is nonsense!! I have a sense that the only people that are left are Gil farmers, people that have nothing else to do and people that are about to leave LIKE ME!! I have broken low rank gear.....I am not gonna sit here and grind for crafting levels and turn around and grind for supplies to use my new found skill!!

Square Enix this game is CRAP~!

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#15 Oct 27 2010 at 6:17 PM Rating: Good
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Aurelius wrote:
sideways wrote:
Quote:
or to at least realize that if you're playing 6-8+ hours/day every day that you're going to run out of fresh and exciting things to do pretty quick


ya see, no other (successful) MMO out there has this problem. However, most other modern MMO have PvP (with benefits, not that FFXI crap) and you can do that ALL DAY LONG and never run out of fun.


Anyone coming into FFXIV with any expectation or even hope of PvP of any kind at launch was naive. SE has never been about PvP. Ballista wasn't added into FFXI until years after launch. Most MMOs don't start off with all kinds of content. They start off with the bare bones and, if all goes well, they start adding content with future updates. All has not gone well with XIV, so the fact they're announcing any new content to be released by the end of the year at all is pretty decent of SE considering everything else they've got their hands full trying to fix.


How many mmos have you played? EQ shiped with tons of content. WoW had so many things to do day one that alot of people still have not seen it all. Linage and Linage 2 again tons of content day one. CoH same thing. I did not come into FFXIV for pvp but why not? EQ2 Vangard the list could go on and on all with tons of content out of the box day one. **** evon the Free to Play games have more content than FFXIV.

None of this was a year after they shiped, It was day one out of the **** box!

Edited, Oct 27th 2010 8:19pm by Sethern79
#16 Oct 27 2010 at 6:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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mpjj wrote:
I don't agree with the, "if you don't like the game now quit and come back when there is content" agrument. I understand your sentiment however I feel many and most won't come back....Why would they come back just to be behind on their ranks


It might be because the notion of "behind" is all in your head. New people join MMOs every day, and their experience is not one of unplayability. Had I joined FFXI some three or four years later than I did, I probably would have had an easier time starting and getting things done; heck, if I joined now, I could almost have just one friend solo me through CoP!

The argument for biding one's time is simple. Right now, FFXIV is a scaffolding; hopefully it will be better in the future. Many people feel that there is no need to waste time playing a game that is still heavily under development. If they don't return, it is because either 1) FFXIV never improved to a sufficient degree or 2) they are happy playing something else.

People quit all the time -- they quit for new single-player games, they quit when they're busy, when they're bored, and when a new MMO comes out -- and populations shift accordingly. Given that so many things cause someone to leave a game, it makes little sense to try and convince them to stay on the basis of "staying ahead" of some phantom rival or simply to grind through a generally unappetizing beta-state of a game.

I do not see how the argument to leave a game when it is being constructed and play a game when it is reasonably built is a bad one. You did not "nip" the argument, you just claimed the people would not return; in which case, that is SE's fault for fumbling so badly with this this release, not a player's fault for being justifiably disappointed and finding a different pass-time.

~

To address your initial desire (to say whether your expectations are sensible), I cannot truly understand what they are. You say that you do not want people to quit, but that you don't even feel like playing the game; you say that the game has "so much potential," and yet you also see how SE does nothing with it. You seem to be at an inner impasse, or in the face of a paradox. You hope for the best, but you see the looming worst; you wish to have others play, but you cannot find a way to convince them to do so.

Essentially, as you said, you have faith -- and faith is never rational.

I think that I have it, too --
(oh! what an age in which we live! In which faith is ascribed to Square-Enix of all things!)

But therein lies the problem: for, while some people are comfortable with all-powerful deities requiring faith, a company that requires is sadly out of place. And if faith is what it takes to keep a game afloat, to keep its subscribers paying even against rational observation, than I think that SE needs to either change their development strategies or register for tax-exempt status.

Edited, Oct 27th 2010 8:48pm by KaneKitty
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#17 Oct 27 2010 at 6:48 PM Rating: Good
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Calispel wrote:
I agree completely. This game just feels like the shell of an MMO - full of nothing but potential and little substance. Even if they add more leves, in the end they are just variations of the same generic mindless quests. I miss the quests handed out by NPCs in FFXI, complete with cut scenes. It's pretty clear to me that they just whipped together the bare MMO essentials for release, with the hope that they would have time to flesh it out later. Even that statement is debatable however, as many standard MMO UI functions haven't even made it into the game yet.

I was thinking about this the other day. In FFXI I enjoyed leveling up because it meant I was better able help friends complete quests or gather rare items. In FFXIV there's no real need for any of that - so I'm really just leveling up for my own personal satisfaction, of which I'm currently getting none of from this game.


This! This is what I've been missing!

Like you said, being a higher level in FFXI meant you could help others through the missions. But the missions in FFXIV seem to be solo (as far as I've seen).

I used to love helping players through the missions and quests in FFXI. But in FFXIV so far it all seems "go for self".

Helping others in missions and quests is something I really enjoyed doing in FFXI. Now I feel all I can offer is advice.

Where's the community spirit that made FFXI what it is?
#18 Oct 27 2010 at 7:16 PM Rating: Good
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55 posts
Aurelius wrote:
People are complaining about there not being enough content. SE is hinting that there's a lot of content that most players haven't even begun to explore yet. I honestly think some people just need to play less, or to at least realize that if you're playing 6-8+ hours/day every day that you're going to run out of fresh and exciting things to do pretty quick. It's the same with any MMO. I do my best to get my 8 local ad 8 regional levequests done before every reset and during the week (and even often during the weekend) I find it tough. It takes a while. But if you're Joe Single-minded who ignores local levequests and just picks up 8 battlecraft leves every reset, I can see how it might get old pretty quick.

This isn't your typical MMO where you pick one class and bust through to the level cap and then stand around shaking your e-peen at everyone while you whine about a lack of endgame. Variety is key to never running out of things to do in FFXIV.


I know my original post was long but I do hope you took the time to read it completely before judging. It seems people are missing my point. I respect your view but I'm not at all complaining about a lack of end game or in a race to get to that point at all. I actually made it a point in my original post to note that fact. Trust me I'm far from an Epeener I'm just a guy who enjoys playing video games of all kinds.

I've also been leveling several jobs I have my pug and archer to 20, leatherworking to 18, most other crafts to 10 and above however I'm finding that the bulk of this game is repeating the same levequests over and over. They may have a different name or report to a different camp/npc but they are essentially the same. Even the faction leve's are just the regular levequest's on steroids with an NPC thrown in to give you the assignment and a treasure chest that pops at the end.
Several of my friends have character's at higher levels and are reporting the same results.

I've also explored most areas as well. Mor Dhona is really cool especially the caves with the fallen in them and the keeper of the lake. Lots of areas look cool and will eventually have bad *** stories. I really wanna see Ishgard. I wanna know what the **** all of those sewer vents/shafts whatever they are that are found everywhere throughout the game but again all I see is potential all around me but no pay off or even a hint of pay off. I've been to most of the side cities and i've talked to hundreds of NPC's but there is just no other content other than the leves. I'm just disheartened by this because I expected a lot of content even at low levels.

Gadhelyn wrote:
Are you comparing a month old game to games that have been out at least a year?

If someone's gotten it yet, everyone accepts that someone in SE jumped the gun and had the game released too early. That makes these version updates (the ones with the content) what would have probably come out with the game at release if it were released later.


Again not my point at all. I'm not trying to compare it to any game in my original post.

I will say in this post I've been following GW2 in development and that game looks like it will have a crap load of content right out of the gate. I would say that is a fair and similar comparison as it is a new game with content based on the old game (same franchise) same as FFXI / FFXIV SE. I'm just again saying that I had set myself up with this expectation of great and awesome content at every level of FFXIV (lower, middle, and end) and I just feel a bit let down as far as that goes.

NiburuNaga wrote:
I agree this game is hopeless..... It's not for the casual gamer.... The market is redicoulous! The economy is SCREWED! You have to GRIND to get anywhere which is nonsense!! I have a sense that the only people that are left are Gil farmers, people that have nothing else to do and people that are about to leave LIKE ME!! I have broken low rank gear.....I am not gonna sit here and grind for crafting levels and turn around and grind for supplies to use my new found skill!!

Square Enix this game is CRAP~!

Nibiru Naga Fabul Server


Seriously dude this is exactly what I don't want to result from this thread. I respect your opinion and you are free to speak your mind but this is not the thread for that. This is not a bash SE or FFXIV thread. This is a discussion thread.

Edited, Oct 27th 2010 9:42pm by mpjj
#19 Oct 27 2010 at 7:16 PM Rating: Decent
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800 posts
I'll admit I've only played FFXI and LoTRO before FFXIV, but how much content do we really expect in an MMO for the first 25% of the levels? In LoTRO, you just do level-grinding quests with the occasional story line quest. In FFXI you fight level-grinding mobs with the occasional story line quest. What is in FFXIV from rank 1-20? Level-grinding mobs with the occasional story line quest.

I guess I fail to see how rank 1-20 in FFXIV is any different than level 1-20 in FFXI or level 1-20 in LoTRO. What is there to do at levels 1-20 in WoW or EQ? That's an honest question because I've never played them.

If this is still all we see when the majority of us are rank 40+, then I'll change my tune, but right now it seems like typical MMO fare to me. The people who power level to the cap will never have enough content simply because they play the game more than developers have time to implement new content, making it literally impossible for there to be enough content for them.
#20 Oct 27 2010 at 7:34 PM Rating: Good
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55 posts
KaneKitty wrote:
mpjj wrote:
I don't agree with the, "if you don't like the game now quit and come back when there is content" agrument. I understand your sentiment however I feel many and most won't come back....Why would they come back just to be behind on their ranks


It might be because the notion of "behind" is all in your head. New people join MMOs every day, and their experience is not one of unplayability. Had I joined FFXI some three or four years later than I did, I probably would have had an easier time starting and getting things done; heck, if I joined now, I could almost have just one friend solo me through CoP!

The argument for biding one's time is simple. Right now, FFXIV is a scaffolding; hopefully it will be better in the future. Many people feel that there is no need to waste time playing a game that is still heavily under development. If they don't return, it is because either 1) FFXIV never improved to a sufficient degree or 2) they are happy playing something else.

People quit all the time -- they quit for new single-player games, they quit when they're busy, when they're bored, and when a new MMO comes out -- and populations shift accordingly. Given that so many things cause someone to leave a game, it makes little sense to try and convince them to stay on the basis of "staying ahead" of some phantom rival or simply to grind through a generally unappetizing beta-state of a game.

I do not see how the argument to leave a game when it is being constructed and play a game when it is reasonably built is a bad one. You did not "nip" the argument, you just claimed the people would not return; in which case, that is SE's fault for fumbling so badly with this this release, not a player's fault for being justifiably disappointed and finding a different pass-time.

~

To address your initial desire (to say whether your expectations are sensible), I cannot truly understand what they are. You say that you do not want people to quit, but that you don't even feel like playing the game; you say that the game has "so much potential," and yet you also see how SE does nothing with it. You seem to be at an inner impasse, or in the face of a paradox. You hope for the best, but you see the looming worst; you wish to have others play, but you cannot find a way to convince them to do so.

Essentially, as you said, you have faith -- and faith is never rational.

I think that I have it, too --
(oh! what an age in which we live! In which faith is ascribed to Square-Enix of all things!)

But therein lies the problem: for, while some people are comfortable with all-powerful deities requiring faith, a company that requires is sadly out of place. And if faith is what it takes to keep a game afloat, to keep its subscribers paying even against rational observation, than I think that SE needs to either change their development strategies or register for tax-exempt status.

Edited, Oct 27th 2010 8:48pm by KaneKitty


Two thumbs up!! You did a much better job of describing the feeling and what I'm going through than I ever could. This was a great post.

I also agree with your first statement in response to my post. I never looked at it from that angle but yes you are correct in every statement you made. I guess that I don't want people to leave for fear they won't come back but I have an ominous feeling we are heading for a hurricane before the storm breaks. I would hate to see this game never get to see it's full potential.
#21 Oct 27 2010 at 7:45 PM Rating: Decent
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11,576 posts
Sethern79 wrote:
Aurelius wrote:
sideways wrote:
Quote:
or to at least realize that if you're playing 6-8+ hours/day every day that you're going to run out of fresh and exciting things to do pretty quick


ya see, no other (successful) MMO out there has this problem. However, most other modern MMO have PvP (with benefits, not that FFXI crap) and you can do that ALL DAY LONG and never run out of fun.


Anyone coming into FFXIV with any expectation or even hope of PvP of any kind at launch was naive. SE has never been about PvP. Ballista wasn't added into FFXI until years after launch. Most MMOs don't start off with all kinds of content. They start off with the bare bones and, if all goes well, they start adding content with future updates. All has not gone well with XIV, so the fact they're announcing any new content to be released by the end of the year at all is pretty decent of SE considering everything else they've got their hands full trying to fix.


How many mmos have you played?


Counting XIV? 7.

Quote:
WoW had so many things to do day one that alot of people still have not seen it all.


********* WoW shipped with most of Azeroth available and a level cap of 50. If people haven't seen it all by now, it's because they haven't wanted to see it. Now we're playing a new MMO barely a month in with people in their low twenties complaining there's nothing to do. LOL? There's been a nation mission at ranks 10, 15, 20, and 26 for me so far. There have been class missions at rank 20 (I've done 4 of them so far). But people are still blundering about thinking they know everything when they know very little and blaming their ignorance on SE. The same lolnumpties that were all charging around on their high horses whining that they didn't want to be spoonfed anything because they like the CHALLENGE and give me the CHALLENGE and I'm from FFXI I like CHALLENGE and now...

lol...

Just freaking lol....
#22 Oct 27 2010 at 7:59 PM Rating: Good
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55 posts
Aurelius wrote:


Quote:
WoW had so many things to do day one that alot of people still have not seen it all.


Bullsh*t. WoW shipped with most of Azeroth available and a level cap of 50. If people haven't seen it all by now, it's because they haven't wanted to see it. Now we're playing a new MMO barely a month in with people in their low twenties complaining there's nothing to do. LOL? There's been a nation mission at ranks 10, 15, 20, and 26 for me so far. There have been class missions at rank 20 (I've done 4 of them so far). But people are still blundering about thinking they know everything when they know very little and blaming their ignorance on SE. The same lolnumpties that were all charging around on their high horses whining that they didn't want to be spoonfed anything because they like the CHALLENGE and give me the CHALLENGE and I'm from FFXI I like CHALLENGE and now...

lol...

Just freaking lol....


I'm not sure who you're quoting there but I want to keep this thread from being a flame war if possible. Your statements are becoming a bit inflammatory. Let's keep it civil.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion; you are and others as well. There is no high and mighty MMO, FFXIV, WOW, (insert random game/genre/etc.) God here. When it comes to issues like this there is no right or wrong because it's all about perspective and everyone will have a different one.

Please don't take that the wrong way I just wanna try to steer this on topic and in the spirit of discussion and not turn it into a wang measuring contest.
#23 Oct 27 2010 at 8:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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mpjj wrote:
I posted something similar to this in the ask the devs 10/25 thread but didn't really receive many repsonses or discussion. I thought I would amend and post in a thread of it's own.

DISCLAIMER: This is not a come join me quit thread, this is not a troll thread, this is not technically a complaint thread. This is a let's discuss and help me understand thread.

Am I the only one that finds the chart and explanation for "reasons to level" very alarming? I know the reason it was posted is because a bunch of knuckleheads asked "Well why should I even level?". However the chart and response that does show the available content has sort of knocked the wind out of me. Not to mention that they actually felt justified in their reasoning to even post a response and "reasons to level" section. Really? You felt the need to tell people why to level. I don't know of any other game that has ever done that.

I know that the rank specific quests are available for each job/class but I don't think most people want to have to level 8 jobs to level 20 just for new content (some will and I respect that but I feel that would be the minority not the majority). I know the NM's and new levequests are coming in december but is there really no other meaty content now available? No side quests, no AF (or equivalent quests), no quests to unlock airship. Basically at this point it seems the meat of the game is wash, rinse and repeat the same leve quests over and over.

And no I'm not talking about end game content so don't go there. I don't expect anything like that. I've read those arguments and posts.

I've been keeping my head down and chugging along but I'm starting to feel my head hitting the brick wall. I love the FF series and I loved FFXI. The potential of this game is great; it looks amazing and EVENTUALLY it will be. I kept telling myself there is unlockable content, new job classes, Ishgard, Chocos, etc. keep grinding man, keep grinding. However this chart and response from SE direct just crushed my spirits; utterly.

Is this my fault for building this game up in my mind for so long in the anticipation of what was to come? Even during the beta i kept telling myself new content/quests will be available upon release. The game released and I said the first big update will add more and unlock areas. The new updates are announced (don't get me wrong there's great stuff coming up) but I found myself saying when the PS3 version releases it will be firing on all cylinders. I'm beginning to think I've been kidding myself; there is no Wizard of OZ. The man behind the curtain has been revealed and he's just a sad little man. The magic seems gone.

Please don't take my post wrong. I'm not trying to tell anyone to quit or promote quitting at all. I've seen enough of that on this forum. I'm not trying to complain I'm trying to understand. I just don't know if I'm the only one feeling this way or if my own expectations unjustly have left this bad taste in my mouth. At times I love the game and at times I find myself feeling frustrated to no end and lacking motivation to keep on keeping on.

I honestly wish SE would just lay it all out on the table and say hey this is the directtion we're going and this is our timeline. I know that's not their style but I can wish right? I feel like they need to do this or they are gonna lose a lot of newby's and veteran's alike. Again only my opinion so please don't think i'm soap boxing with my FFXIV bible in hand.

Everyday I come here hoping for an exciting revelation that someone found that hidden gem. Everyday all I see is BLAH DIS GAME SUCKS, I QUIT, WHERE IS THE UBER END GAME AND I WANT NO BUGS but I have kept the faith and not lost hope. Even despite this website having to actually create a complaints section due to the amount of nay sayers. But when from the official website comes a list of in-game content that imo (everyone has one like an *** hole I know) just seems lack luster and they feel the need to justify reasons to level ; I've lost hope.

The lag, the bugs, the broken elements and even the UI I could live it's a new game and that S*&t happens but this lack of any content just gets me depressed.

Again I'm not trying to troll or be defaulted etc. If this thread seems out of place or inflammatory please lock it, move it if you must but I sincerely hope it doesn't happen and we can get some NON BS discussion. Not dumb A$$E$ ranting about the same tired BS. I simply would like to get opinions. Am I out of line? Do others feel like me especially pertaining to the content and "reasons to level" response? Is this typical of a launch? Is this my fault for hyping the game and epexcting too much?

P.S.: I don't agree with the, "if you don't like the game now quit and come back when there is content" agrument. I understand your sentiment however I feel many and most won't come back. I don't think that's what SE wants to do either is drive people off and have them come back later. Why would they come back just to be behind on their ranks for crafting classes and combat classes. I see that solution and argument alot and I just wanted to nip that one.

Sorry for the long post and if this seems like a rant I apologize /rant off. That was not my intention. Please discuss and let me know if I'm being unreasonable in my expectations.


I think when people asked "why should I even level?", they did not mean it in the literal sense, and their intent behind the question was misinterpreted. They probably meant it with a sarcastic overtone, "I don't see any value in leveling because of such and such reasons..." And that there was even a response to the question at face-value, it feels like the response was grasping at air...missed the point.
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I know that ffxi was cross platform, but I feel that they should have really designed the ffxiv for just one system, preferably the pc. They can dedicate more money/time/resources/talent/quality to one system if they didn't have to split those things across two systems. If it came out solely for the ps3 and was playable, I would have bought a ps3. As it was, I bought a new $300 video card purely for the game. I have a friend who invested much more into a new system; and when you're heavily invested you're gonna try to find the ray of light in the overwhelming darkness. But most people were/are very invested. I bet a lot of people were lurking for months before the game released, frequenting multiple ffxiv sites on a religiously daily basis. I know was one of those people. But a sunken cost is a sunken cost.
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The game does not give you enough sense of progression. In other mmos, at lvl 3+ you would be fighting humans or humanoid creatures and they would drop gear. If you wanted to enhance those items, it costed you resources (taking gold from economy). The gear drop doesn't have to be at lvl 3; it could start at lvl 10 and not be nearly non-existent. I would like to see an adequate sense of reward, so I can fight more variety of creatures and more fierce looking. When I was various lvls DoW and DoM, 12-18 physical I ran around the different zones to find different things to kill. There are lots of marmot squirrels out there.
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I never liked the crafting system. I tried it, stopped, tried it again, stopped, tried it again, gritted my teeth until I finally decided I wouldn't craft. The UI interface, lag, multiple menu (for other things, too, including combat, looting, vendoring, etc) was driving me insane.
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Nitpicky things.
-The sound controls. I really just want to hear the music without any other sound but those disabling functions don't work. For me, there's too much noise that I can't disable unless I turn all the game sound off.
-Website. It feels like navigating a maze. Also I don't know why I need cookies enabled just to view (not log in) the lodestone site.
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Personal thoughts:
-The more people that play a game, the more they infuse it with life and dynamics, enriching the game. Sure, there will be a small population that can make it sour but you can avoid these people. I feel like people who can't argue/discuss properly resort to "GTFO".
-Innovation is good, but the developers, if they haven't, should have played other mmos for a few months to a year. They can see what's out there, what works on a fundamental level, and they could take it and polish it, or have a better understanding/approach to any innovation.
-I hope they take whatever they've learned from this game to heart and make a supremely next-gen ffxv mmo or something. Don't release the game if it's not ready. If the game is fundamentally flawed, be willing to scrap it, take the loss. That loss is far less compared to releasing a severely flawed game and crushing the spirits of fans, and decreasing their trust. I hope they learn from this. I'm willing to forgive and give another chance.




#24 Oct 27 2010 at 8:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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228 posts
Hydragyrum wrote:
I'll admit I've only played FFXI and LoTRO before FFXIV, but how much content do we really expect in an MMO for the first 25% of the levels? In LoTRO, you just do level-grinding quests with the occasional story line quest. In FFXI you fight level-grinding mobs with the occasional story line quest. What is in FFXIV from rank 1-20? Level-grinding mobs with the occasional story line quest.

I guess I fail to see how rank 1-20 in FFXIV is any different than level 1-20 in FFXI or level 1-20 in LoTRO. What is there to do at levels 1-20 in WoW or EQ? That's an honest question because I've never played them.

If this is still all we see when the majority of us are rank 40+, then I'll change my tune, but right now it seems like typical MMO fare to me. The people who power level to the cap will never have enough content simply because they play the game more than developers have time to implement new content, making it literally impossible for there to be enough content for them.



Well I never played EQ, but in regards to WoW it's somewhat similar in that its level grinding. However, thanks to WoW's quest system you often get a zone wide story arc to follow while grinding, while at the same time you get miniature story arcs the width of the quest. You also never just grind on mobs to just grind on mobs, quests are a key to leveling and there are dozens (sometimes hundred+) per zone.

It does quite a bit to make you feel part of the world and alleviates to some degree the tedium of simply grinding, after level 10 you also gain access to pvp (uhg I hate pvp of any kind in any mmo, but its an option if you go for that kind of thing) and you can do the first set of dungeons (mini zones with a guiding story line filled with "bosses" that can drop gear).

Essentially by the time you hit 20 in wow, you've gotten far more story and seen a much wider variety of things then by the time you hit 20 in XIV (at the moment at least, hopefully this will change). Honestly I was really hoping SE would copy WoW's quest system, given SE's talent for story telling I'm sure they could come up with some amazing quest lines.

As per my usual disclaimer, WoW has more then its share of issues but lack of content has never been one of them.
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Quote:
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Oh go stuff that thread up your ***. Did you even READ that post?
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#25 Oct 27 2010 at 8:14 PM Rating: Decent
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I didn't go through the whole thread, however what I did skim...some of you actually play 8+ hours a day?....wow...that is all I have to say.
____________________________


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#26 Oct 27 2010 at 8:18 PM Rating: Good
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Would the WoW "story arcs" be similar to the quest info in guildleves? I know in LoTRO the level-grind quests were just story fluff: sometimes funny, sometimes nerdy to LOTR buffs, but never really tied in to the game's "epic" story line and most were just grocery shopping quests. If you need an NPC to tell you their family is hungry and needs 10 boar haunches to make you feel like you earned that 2000 exp, well, I guess you wont find that in FFXIV.

My point is that grinding is grinding is grinding. It's the same in every MMO regardless of the delivery system. Grinding quests is the same as grinding mobs in my opinion. What purpose is there for leveling up in WoW, LoTRO, EQ, etc.? Either more level grinding or end-game dungeon/dynamis/etc. grinding.

If you don't like grinds, MMORPGs probably aren't the type of game you'd enjoy.

Edited, Oct 27th 2010 9:20pm by Hydragyrum
#27 Oct 27 2010 at 8:21 PM Rating: Good
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55 posts
mistrik wrote:
Well I never played EQ, but in regards to WoW it's somewhat similar in that its level grinding. However, thanks to WoW's quest system you often get a zone wide story arc to follow while grinding, while at the same time you get miniature story arcs the width of the quest. You also never just grind on mobs to just grind on mobs, quests are a key to leveling and there are dozens (sometimes hundred+) per zone.

It does quite a bit to make you feel part of the world and alleviates to some degree the tedium of simply grinding, after level 10 you also gain access to pvp (uhg I hate pvp of any kind in any mmo, but its an option if you go for that kind of thing) and you can do the first set of dungeons (mini zones with a guiding story line filled with "bosses" that can drop gear).

Essentially by the time you hit 20 in wow, you've gotten far more story and seen a much wider variety of things then by the time you hit 20 in XIV (at the moment at least, hopefully this will change). Honestly I was really hoping SE would copy WoW's quest system, given SE's talent for story telling I'm sure they could come up with some amazing quest lines.

As per my usual disclaimer, WoW has more then its share of issues but lack of content has never been one of them.


Let me first say thanks to everyone for your comments and discussion on this thread it is appreciated.

I can say I have never played WOW ever. Never even tried it. Not because I'm anti WOW but to be honest simply because the look of the game seemed too cartoonish to me. Just my personal preference and opinion don't flame me for that I'm sure it's a great game.

However what you are describing is exactly what I was hoping for with FFXIV. SE has always been masterful story tellers and I was hoping for a lot of that. I'm not asking for uber gear and complicated game play mechanics etc. but don't make me repeat the same 3-4 leve quests in 3 different cities over and over. Give me some meat with my potatoes.

I wanted to feel truly a part of this rich world they've created. There is so much potential and I wish, I wish I could dive in and get lost in this fascinating world but it just isn't happening. I'm not asking for full blown CGI Avatar quality mini movies and voice acting but give me some more story to go along with the main and class quests.
#28 Oct 27 2010 at 8:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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228 posts
Hydragyrum wrote:
Would the WoW "story arcs" be similar to the quest info in guildleves? I know in LoTRO the level-grind quests were just story fluff: sometimes funny, sometimes nerdy to LOTR buffs, but never really tied in to the game's "epic" story line and most were just grocery shopping quests. If you need an NPC to tell you their family is hungry and needs 10 boar haunches to make you feel like you earned that 2000 exp, well, I guess you wont find that in FFXIV.

My point is that grinding is grinding is grinding. It's the same in every MMO regardless of the delivery system. Grinding quests is the same as grinding mobs in my opinion. What purpose is there for leveling up in WoW, LoTRO, EQ, etc.? Either more level grinding or end-game dungeon/dynamis/etc. grinding.



More like. Go to NPC "A" get a quest with a page explaining the characters situation, go accomplish the objective. Occasionally that ends the quest, however there are also "chain" quests, where once you accomplish the first a second is available that continues the story.

I suppose a good example quest was, for Night Elves you got a quest at 12ish that had you finding the possessed spirit of the quest givers long dead lover, slaying it and then returning her locket to him. After which a short scene would play between the npc and his freed lovers spirit of her saying good bye to him and his mourning her loss a second time. The quest reward was a casters off-hand item that was a vial of tears.

Some chains can be a dozen long, quests certainly improve as you level up (there's a marked difference in teh quality of the story and variety of mechanics between a Wrath of the Lich King quest ((most recent expansion)) and a quest that came with the game at release). However with Cataclysm completely re-vamping the entire orginal locations, I expect a lot of newbie quests will now be of Wrath quality.

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Pikko wrote:
Quote:
sideways wrote: (really Pikko?)

Oh go stuff that thread up your ***. Did you even READ that post?
[...]
I mean, excuuuuse me for trying to make people PLAY NICE.


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#29 Oct 27 2010 at 8:31 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
All has not gone well with XIV, so the fact they're announcing any new content to be released by the end of the year at all is pretty decent of SE considering everything else they've got their hands full trying to fix.


Pretty darn decent would have been not letting people pay money for this game. They are using adding actual content as the carrot? People didn't expect too much. We expected a game that was fun to play, not a chore.

congrats SE, you're different from other MMO's, have fun crashing and burning.
#30 Oct 27 2010 at 8:34 PM Rating: Decent
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800 posts
thorrandTB wrote:
Quote:
All has not gone well with XIV, so the fact they're announcing any new content to be released by the end of the year at all is pretty decent of SE considering everything else they've got their hands full trying to fix.


Pretty darn decent would have been not letting people pay money for this game. They are using adding actual content as the carrot? People didn't expect too much. We expected a game that was fun to play, not a chore.

congrats SE, you're different from other MMO's, have fun crashing and burning.


Isn't new content the carrot for all MMOs? Were you really expecting them to release FFXIV with years and years of playable content? I agree that we may be a bit on the light side but come on, lets at least have reasonable expectations.
#31 Oct 27 2010 at 8:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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Hydragyrum wrote:
thorrandTB wrote:
Quote:
All has not gone well with XIV, so the fact they're announcing any new content to be released by the end of the year at all is pretty decent of SE considering everything else they've got their hands full trying to fix.


Pretty darn decent would have been not letting people pay money for this game. They are using adding actual content as the carrot? People didn't expect too much. We expected a game that was fun to play, not a chore.

congrats SE, you're different from other MMO's, have fun crashing and burning.


Isn't new content the carrot for all MMOs? Were you really expecting them to release FFXIV with years and years of playable content? I agree that we may be a bit on the light side but come on, lets at least have reasonable expectations.


A months worth then maybe? Two weeks worth? Saying we are on the lite side is a bit of an understatement. The only really involved content at the moment is probably crafting. I really am of the opinion that this game desperately needed another 6 months in development. Not to say that I don't enjoy myself, but I find myself having longer play sessions in call of duty then I do this "MMO" ... >.>;

A good MMO, in my opinion, should be like a good book: you just don't want to put it down after you start, sadly for now I can log on and after I do 4 leves I feel like "eh well I'm done.."

Edited, Oct 27th 2010 10:40pm by mistrik
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Oh go stuff that thread up your ***. Did you even READ that post?
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#32Hydragyrum, Posted: Oct 27 2010 at 8:43 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Well, then I think that's just a matter of personal preference. Me, I've tried out two DoW classes, and am currently working on several DoH and DoL classes and I still feel like I'm ignoring so much of this game just to focus on crafting. I just don't understand how someone can run out of content in a month unless they're ignoring large portions of the game.
#33 Oct 27 2010 at 9:16 PM Rating: Good
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Hydragyrum wrote:
Well, then I think that's just a matter of personal preference. Me, I've tried out two DoW classes, and am currently working on several DoH and DoL classes and I still feel like I'm ignoring so much of this game just to focus on crafting. I just don't understand how someone can run out of content in a month unless they're ignoring large portions of the game.

I agree you'll run out of content quickly if you only level one class. But that's not how this game was meant to be played, as evidenced by the "physical level" system (exp shared among classes).


I would agree with your assessment that I believe (especially in the current state of the game) at this point enjoyment is definitely a matter of personal preference. I've been leveling several classes/jobs as stated previously. My physical level is 27 so I would think that is on par for someone that plays a decent amount and on several jobs but I'm one of those that feels like they've run out of content. There is content but it is essentially (especially the leve quests) all the same and repetitive. I enjoy partying occasionally but I don't want to have to party all the time to level; that's what I did in FFXI.

The main story line is very intriguing and the class quests seem ok but I find them to not be enough of an incentive to keep chugging along. This paired with the fact that it is still very difficult obtaining necessary materials for crafting due to the current state of the market wards, etc. I hate to admit it but I currently spend my time doing my 8 battlecraft quests and then watching netflix on my laptop while I craft grind. I'm hoping the December update will help put some spark back in with the addition of NM's and new leve quests.
#34 Oct 27 2010 at 9:19 PM Rating: Decent
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Aurelius wrote:
Sethern79 wrote:
Aurelius wrote:
sideways wrote:
Quote:
or to at least realize that if you're playing 6-8+ hours/day every day that you're going to run out of fresh and exciting things to do pretty quick


ya see, no other (successful) MMO out there has this problem. However, most other modern MMO have PvP (with benefits, not that FFXI crap) and you can do that ALL DAY LONG and never run out of fun.


Anyone coming into FFXIV with any expectation or even hope of PvP of any kind at launch was naive. SE has never been about PvP. Ballista wasn't added into FFXI until years after launch. Most MMOs don't start off with all kinds of content. They start off with the bare bones and, if all goes well, they start adding content with future updates. All has not gone well with XIV, so the fact they're announcing any new content to be released by the end of the year at all is pretty decent of SE considering everything else they've got their hands full trying to fix.


How many mmos have you played?


Counting XIV? 7.

Quote:
WoW had so many things to do day one that alot of people still have not seen it all.


Bullsh*t. WoW shipped with most of Azeroth available and a level cap of 50. If people haven't seen it all by now, it's because they haven't wanted to see it. Now we're playing a new MMO barely a month in with people in their low twenties complaining there's nothing to do. LOL? There's been a nation mission at ranks 10, 15, 20, and 26 for me so far. There have been class missions at rank 20 (I've done 4 of them so far). But people are still blundering about thinking they know everything when they know very little and blaming their ignorance on SE. The same lolnumpties that were all charging around on their high horses whining that they didn't want to be spoonfed anything because they like the CHALLENGE and give me the CHALLENGE and I'm from FFXI I like CHALLENGE and now...

lol...

Just freaking lol....


First off WoW shiped with a lvl cap of 60 not 50. And all you need to do is go count how many people have lore master for the old world. Second alot of the content in WoW had to be unlocked threw long quest chaing's. Most raids you needed to atune to and there are countless people who never got to do the atunment quest. You say you played 7 mmos name one that was shiped with less content than FFXIV. For that matter name the 7 MMOS you played.

You spot off about the 4 class quest you have done but you forgot to tell everyone how you had to grind 4 classes to 20 to do the 4 class quest. There is no hiden content in FFXIV there is nothing that we will find by looking around. The people talking about being spoonfed where talking about crafting. They did not want SE telling us how the Crafting system worked.

having quest in your game that drives the story forword is not spoonfeeding your players. It dose not take away from the callenge witch btw FFXIV has none atm. But what it dose do is give you a reason for the mading mind numing grind. In fact it can turn that mind numing grind into a fun game.
#35 Oct 27 2010 at 9:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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We know that the game shipped early and unfinished. That's not contested, I think, by anyone here.

A big part of the difference is that people have been playing WOW, and other games which are heavily influenced by WOW, and thus they expect to be spending a lot of their time directed. Go here, do this, kill these, find that, save her, kill him, visit my cousin in this other area. Now, don't get me wrong, that can be fun, especially with a good balance of drama and humor. It's not reasonable to expect to be SAAAAVING THE WOOOOORLD at level two. But the quests add character to the game.

Leves have a little fluff text, but they don't really add character. Your character is a mercenary; the fluff is generally "We need x killed" or "something happened and now we need x items in y location". And you're going to be offered the same quest tomorrow, or at least randomly several times in the future. (I wanna know where Momodi is hiding all these daggers, chokers, chainmail, etc.)

Now, the storyline quests are quite good! But you don't spend a whole lot of time on them, comparatively speaking. And when you're not on a storyline quest, you're in an absolutely un-directed environment without any particular reason to be doing what you're doing, other than "the next quest opens up at X rank".

FFXI had some character, even though it didn't have nearly as many quests as a game like WOW. Everyone remembers the Star Onion Brigade! FFXIV doesn't seem to have any of that, at all, anywhere. It has places that look like they were intended for that sort of thing, but for now there's just a bunch of placeholders there. We'll have to see how that develops once the rest of the game gets wired up...
#36 Oct 27 2010 at 9:42 PM Rating: Good
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AvatarexADV wrote:
We know that the game shipped early and unfinished. That's not contested, I think, by anyone here.

A big part of the difference is that people have been playing WOW, and other games which are heavily influenced by WOW, and thus they expect to be spending a lot of their time directed. Go here, do this, kill these, find that, save her, kill him, visit my cousin in this other area. Now, don't get me wrong, that can be fun, especially with a good balance of drama and humor. It's not reasonable to expect to be SAAAAVING THE WOOOOORLD at level two. But the quests add character to the game.

Leves have a little fluff text, but they don't really add character. Your character is a mercenary; the fluff is generally "We need x killed" or "something happened and now we need x items in y location". And you're going to be offered the same quest tomorrow, or at least randomly several times in the future. (I wanna know where Momodi is hiding all these daggers, chokers, chainmail, etc.)

Now, the storyline quests are quite good! But you don't spend a whole lot of time on them, comparatively speaking. And when you're not on a storyline quest, you're in an absolutely un-directed environment without any particular reason to be doing what you're doing, other than "the next quest opens up at X rank".

FFXI had some character, even though it didn't have nearly as many quests as a game like WOW. Everyone remembers the Star Onion Brigade! FFXIV doesn't seem to have any of that, at all, anywhere. It has places that look like they were intended for that sort of thing, but for now there's just a bunch of placeholders there. We'll have to see how that develops once the rest of the game gets wired up...


What he said exactly.
#37 Oct 27 2010 at 9:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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mpjj wrote:
Two thumbs up!!


Kind words... on my forums? What are the words used to describe the opposite of flaming -- it's been so long I've forgotten them. What is this feeling I'm having...? Could this be what a discussion is like? XD

Seriously though, this has been an interested thread.
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#38 Oct 27 2010 at 10:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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mpjj wrote:
Is this typical of a launch?
Having been around for the launches of a few MMOs over the years, including AC2, FFXI, SWG, WoW, and LotRO, I can confidently say "sort of."

In a lot of ways it really is typical. Content in a general sense is usually pretty bare. In FFXI there was nothing to do but go out and try to grind levels on random mobs, possibly craft (good luck with that), and explore the areas between the three cities and Jeuno. There weren't even NMs or an AH or...much of anything really. In SWG there was grinding that came in the form of randomly generated "missions" to dispatch some enemies, as well as a very limited selection of things to buy with credits for your faction (Rebels or Empire). The game had more bugs than probably any other MMO ever made, tons of UI elements and other things would just break randomly, and several skills were completely unimplemented. WoW also had all kinds of game-ending bugs, huge issues with server population because it was far more popular than anticipated, and basically just not much to do. You could advance through questing and the game had a really great tutorial, and gathering and crafting were there from the start, though their usefulness was questionable. It did have named monsters and some instanced dungeons, putting its content a bit ahead of other new MMOs, but not a lot.

In some other ways it's not typical. FFXIV is much more obvious in its being unfinished than other games. While SWG and WoW had more bugs that would stop you from playing the game and force you to restart, it was really apparent that those were all just bugs and things the development teams knew to fix. With FFXIV, it's almost like it not crashing every 20 minutes highlights the bad/missing things that much more. It's hard to put my finger on it exactly, but it tends to feel like SE might leave something like the slow server-authenticating-happy UI in place, while when I got stuck looting a corpse and had to shut WoW down I felt like Blizzard would take care of it. Part of it is just a communication issue; we're never sure quite what SE is thinking. But another part is actually that FFXIV is more stable than other games, and it allows you to spend an entire day logged in realizing your options are limited, where many other games you're fighting against bugs and server stability to just play the game.

FFXIV is also really blatant that it's missing things, with "this area is currently off limits" NPCs placed at more zone lines than there actually are working zone lines, guilds for classes that don't exist yet, etc. This is both a good thing and a bad thing. On one hand, it's a sure sign they're going to add more content. They have obvious plans for those zone lines and concrete ideas for classes that will be added. On the other hand, this also serves to show just how incomplete the game is. We saw a screenshot of the area underneath Thanalan early on in FFXIV's development, yet we can't access it because it's clear they rushed the game and many things weren't ready.

I do think one of the biggest failings is the lack of miscellaneous quests to be undertaken. Obviously they can't have quest-based progression like WoW due to the all-classes-on-one-character thing. There's just no way they could add enough of the things to frame advancement in that way. But they definitely could do with some FFXI-style quests where some random NPCs need you to do something for them and there are possible rewards or interesting character interactions to see. Guildleves take care of character advancement, but they do very little for understanding the world and getting a sense for the people who live in it. Even FFXI had a small number of quests available in the beginning of its service.

I agree with what you say about "quit now and come back in six months." It's fairly obvious from what's in the game now (like the aforementioned zone lines) that there's a lot of content in the works, not just patches to fix all the issues with the UI and such. And it's also somewhat similar to the lack of content in other MMOs upon release that now have more stuff than you could possibly ever accomplish. If you come back in six months I can almost garauntee the game will be a lot better and have a lot more content. However, it was definitely a mistake for SE to release the game as it is, given the number of people who quit based on what's available from the start and never look back. I've talked to many people who quit FFXI and when I ask them about it all of their comments relate back to the way the game was when they quit, not anything after. I personally quit SWG after a couple months and I don't have the faintest idea about what they changed in the game over the years after that.

I think the bottom line is that it may be typical for MMOs to release in an unfinished state, but when the developers (or perhaps more accurately their superiors) aim to release unfinished the result is more noticeable and unfavorable. Beyond that, they need to realize that people who quit do so for good most of the time, and they stand to gain more in the long run by delaying the release until more features are ready.
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#39 Oct 28 2010 at 12:09 AM Rating: Good
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AvatarexADV wrote:
(I wanna know where Momodi is hiding all these daggers, chokers, chainmail, etc.)


Best comment I've seen on here in weeks. In my sig now.
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When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#40 Oct 28 2010 at 12:45 AM Rating: Default
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11,576 posts
mpjj wrote:


I'm not sure who you're quoting there but I want to keep this thread from being a flame war if possible. Your statements are becoming a bit inflammatory. Let's keep it civil.


Don't presume to lecture me on my posting style. I mock hypocrisy, crybabies, and ignorant whining. That's what I do. That's what I've always done.

Quote:
Everyone is entitled to their opinion; you are and others as well. There is no high and mighty MMO, FFXIV, WOW, (insert random game/genre/etc.) God here. When it comes to issues like this there is no right or wrong because it's all about perspective and everyone will have a different one.


Spare me the hippy diatribe. There is a right and wrong when it comes to perspective when a person's perspective is based on false information and willful ignorance.

Fact: FFXI at NA launch had less content for the level 1-20 stretch than XIV does. That's a fact, but nobody was whining about a lack of content because most of the players at the time had no frame of reference to compare it to.

Fact: Most people playing FFXIV have played at least one other MMO previously, frequently more than one other MMO.

Fact: When you compare a game that has been live for barely a month to games that have been out for several years, of course there's going to be a glaring discrepancy in content. Some games had more than XIV. Others had less.

Quote:
Please don't take that the wrong way I just wanna try to steer this on topic and in the spirit of discussion and not turn it into a wang measuring contest.


You bring up things like no AF quests. Are you not aware that AF was something that came to XI with the Rise of the Zilart expansion? It wasn't there at JP launch. The level cap at JP launch was 50. Level 50 in FFXI is high enough to get your AF weapon quest. And I don't even think that was in the game pre-Zilart.

You say you want SE to come right out and say what their direction and timeline is. Which they've done. I guess you missed it.

And then when it takes me more than two hands worth of fingers to count the number of times you meekly apologize and don't want to start a fight and not trying to complain and not trying to get people to quit and not trying to be negative and not a complaint thread and not an I quit thread and not wanting to flame and not HAVING A **** SPINE AND SPEAKING MY MIND WITHOUT BEING A SISSY ABOUT IT...

I'm sorry...was that inflammatory?

Thanks for coming out, spud. Your post belonged in the complaints department thread.

Edited, Oct 27th 2010 11:46pm by Aurelius
#41 Oct 28 2010 at 1:58 AM Rating: Decent
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Aurelius wrote:

Don't presume to lecture me on my posting style. I mock hypocrisy, crybabies, and ignorant whining. That's what I do. That's what I've always done.

to bad you spot off out in out lies to make your point.

Aurelius wrote:
Spare me the hippy diatribe. There is a right and wrong when it comes to perspective when a person's perspective is based on false information and willful ignorance.

Fact: FFXI at NA launch had less content for the level 1-20 stretch than XIV does. That's a fact, but nobody was whining about a lack of content because most of the players at the time had no frame of reference to compare it to.

Fact: Most people playing FFXIV have played at least one other MMO previously, frequently more than one other MMO.

Fact: When you compare a game that has been live for barely a month to games that have been out for several years, of course there's going to be a glaring discrepancy in content. Some games had more than XIV. Others had less.


So its a FACT you say that FFXI had less content than FFXIV at the NA launch from lvl 1-20? all you need to do is go to one of the 100 or so FFXI quest data bases and you would see just how wrong you are. Not counting rank mishions FFXI offerd around 15 quest per starting city zone! Windurst/windurst walls. Now wile its true a lot of them where not in for the JP launch you said NA not JP so. And thats not counting the quest you could find out in the field.

And here is a FACT for you. In all industrys not just games new standerds are set all the **** time! Games like WoW set a new standerd for what we expect in MMO's.

Aurelius wrote:

And then when it takes me more than two hands worth of fingers to count the number of times you meekly apologize and don't want to start a fight and not trying to complain and not trying to get people to quit and not trying to be negative and not a complaint thread and not an I quit thread and not wanting to flame and not HAVING A **** SPINE AND SPEAKING MY MIND WITHOUT BEING A SISSY ABOUT IT...

I'm sorry...was that inflammatory?

Thanks for coming out, spud. Your post belonged in the complaints department thread.

Edited, Oct 27th 2010 11:46pm by Aurelius


It would take me the same to count how many time you have turnd into a GD Blind fanboy to defended this game with sudo facts and out and out lies. Here is a hint for you. If a game can not be defended on it own merits don't try to defend it.


Edited, Oct 28th 2010 3:59am by Sethern79
#42 Oct 28 2010 at 2:06 AM Rating: Default
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Sethern79 wrote:
Aurelius wrote:

Don't presume to lecture me on my posting style. I mock hypocrisy, crybabies, and ignorant whining. That's what I do. That's what I've always done.

to bad you spot off out in out lies to make your point.


Lies? Excuse you?

Aurelius wrote:
So its a FACT you say that FFXI had less content than FFXIV at the NA launch from lvl 1-20? all you need to do is go to one of the 100 or so FFXI quest data bases and you would see just how wrong you are. Not counting rank mishions FFXI offerd around 15 quest per starting city zone! Windurst/windurst walls. Now wile its true a lot of them where not in for the JP launch you said NA not JP so. And thats not counting the quest you could find out in the field.


Don't be stupid. JP launch was FFXI's launch. NA launch was a year and a half later. You're wanting to compare a game a year and a half old to a game a month old and thinking you're making a point? Get a clue, sport. Count total local and regional levequests up to rank 20 and compare that to what FFXI had. Hint: FFXIV already has WAY more.

Quote:
And here is a FACT for you. In all industrys not just games new standerds are set all the **** time! Games like WoW set a new standerd for what we expect in MMO's.


And here's another fact for you: everyone except the blissfully ignorant and grossly stupid already knows FFXIV's launch was botched and you either play knowing that and roll with the punches or GTFO. Broken record whining ******** serves no benefit.

Aurelius wrote:


It would take me the same to count how many time you have turnd into a GD Blind fanboy to defended this game with sudo facts and out and out lies. Here is a hint for you. If a game can not be defended on it own merits don't try to defend it.


Umm...who are you, again? Do you contribute around here, or do you just spout off and *****? Because unless you can link me to a thread or a post where you've actually made a contribution to the knowledge base or community in general that didn't involve being a sniveling twunt, you've got nothing for me.
#43 Oct 28 2010 at 2:17 AM Rating: Decent
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Aurelius wrote:
Sethern79 wrote:
Aurelius wrote:

Don't presume to lecture me on my posting style. I mock hypocrisy, crybabies, and ignorant whining. That's what I do. That's what I've always done.

to bad you spot off out in out lies to make your point.


Lies? Excuse you?

Aurelius wrote:
So its a FACT you say that FFXI had less content than FFXIV at the NA launch from lvl 1-20? all you need to do is go to one of the 100 or so FFXI quest data bases and you would see just how wrong you are. Not counting rank mishions FFXI offerd around 15 quest per starting city zone! Windurst/windurst walls. Now wile its true a lot of them where not in for the JP launch you said NA not JP so. And thats not counting the quest you could find out in the field.


Don't be stupid. JP launch was FFXI's launch. NA launch was a year and a half later. You're wanting to compare a game a year and a half old to a game a month old and thinking you're making a point? Get a clue, sport. Count total local and regional levequests up to rank 20 and compare that to what FFXI had. Hint: FFXIV already has WAY more.

Quote:
And here is a FACT for you. In all industrys not just games new standerds are set all the **** time! Games like WoW set a new standerd for what we expect in MMO's.


And here's another fact for you: everyone except the blissfully ignorant and grossly stupid already knows FFXIV's launch was botched and you either play knowing that and roll with the punches or GTFO. Broken record whining bullsh*t serves no benefit.

Aurelius wrote:


It would take me the same to count how many time you have turnd into a GD Blind fanboy to defended this game with sudo facts and out and out lies. Here is a hint for you. If a game can not be defended on it own merits don't try to defend it.


Umm...who are you, again? Do you contribute around here, or do you just spout off and *****? Because unless you can link me to a thread or a post where you've actually made a contribution to the knowledge base or community in general that didn't involve being a sniveling twunt, you've got nothing for me.

Your the one who said and I quote. "FFXI had less content than FFXIV at the NA launch" So it was not me that was doing this it was you. Maby you should go back and read your own post. I only pointed out how you where wrong!

And yes lies. Just a few post up you talk about WoW starting off with a lvl cap of 50 and say many times how so many mmo's launch with less content than FFXIV. This is an out and out LIE. You say you played 7 MMO's again I bet this is a LIE. Point to me the 7 mmos you played many of them with less content than FFXIV. You cant becuse it is a lie.

I would rather be a "twunt" Than a blind fanboy. It is people like you who make SE think it is ok to launch games that should be in Alpha let alone beta! I bet you would defend Ford if they sold you a car that got 2 miles to the gallon and had to be pushed up a hill.

You can act all high and mity all you like. You are nothing but a fanboy much worse than the people who spend all day on here complaining!


Edited, Oct 28th 2010 4:18am by Sethern79
#44 Oct 28 2010 at 2:26 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Don't presume to lecture me on my posting style. I mock hypocrisy, crybabies, and ignorant whining. That's what I do. That's what I've always done.

Doesn't make your attitude OK at all.

Quote:

Fact: FFXI at NA launch had less content for the level 1-20 stretch than XIV does. That's a fact, but nobody was whining about a lack of content because most of the players at the time had no frame of reference to compare it to.

No it didn't. Leves, Story Quests, Crafting/Battle/Gathering, Class Quest. This is it. This is all of XIV one month in to the game. There is nothing else.
The problem here is that none of this changes. Your available content from 1-20 is the same as it is 21-50. You have slightly different leve targets, and different stuff to craft. Woo.

Now, you did say NA Launch, which may have been a mistake, or your own ignorance about the content in XI at that time. Who knows.

Quote:
And then when it takes me more than two hands worth of fingers to count the number of times you meekly apologize and don't want to start a fight and not trying to complain and not trying to get people to quit and not trying to be negative and not a complaint thread and not an I quit thread and not wanting to flame and not HAVING A **** SPINE AND SPEAKING MY MIND WITHOUT BEING A SISSY ABOUT IT...

I'm sorry...was that inflammatory?

Thanks for coming out, spud. Your post belonged in the complaints department thread.

Is it really so difficult to stop being such a @#%^ing **** all the time? No one wants to read that crap, and you just create a crappy atmosphere in every thread you participate in.

Even when you have valid points, they are buried beneath a sea of arrogance that I just can't stand.
It's hilarious to see FACT:, and that fact being completely freaking wrong.
EDIT:Ha.
Quote:
Umm...who are you, again? Do you contribute around here, or do you just spout off and *****? Because unless you can link me to a thread or a post where you've actually made a contribution to the knowledge base or community in general that didn't involve being a sniveling twunt, you've got nothing for me.

"I contribute to community so I am clearly FAR more important than you!"
That doesn't seem like a weird claim to you? You are no more important than anyone else on the forum. Get over yourself.

Edited, Oct 28th 2010 3:33am by Uchitoru
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#45 Oct 28 2010 at 2:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hydragyrum wrote:
Would the WoW "story arcs" be similar to the quest info in guildleves?
Not really. Leves by concept are basically jobs or help-wanted ads. Quests in WoW prety much went along the lines of "the local authorities have asked you to help with A, but oh my while completing A you got item C which starts a quest that causes the authorities to realize there's more to things than what they originally thought, leading you to task D which runs parallel to quest B, which after completion reveal the bad guy of the area, whom you should defeat to bring some sort of stability to the zone"...all while getting gear you can upgrade into and some interesting tidbits.

In short, it's a bit unfair to compare killing rats that sneak into the inn's cellar every 48 hours to helping a dwarven archeology team recover the digging site they lost to an invasion of iron dwarves.
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#46 Oct 28 2010 at 6:30 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Are you comparing a month old game to games that have been out at least a year?


I keep seeing this crop up - and I also saw a mention of "willful ignorance". Seems rather ironic, doesn't it? The game isn't a month old. It's five years one month old. Five years in development, one month in the hands of the public. That's hardly "one month old". Willful ignorance.

Quote:

I can say I have never played WOW ever. Never even tried it. Not because I'm anti WOW but to be honest simply because the look of the game seemed too cartoonish to me. Just my personal preference and opinion don't flame me for that I'm sure it's a great game.


I don't know if this is like some sort of badge of honor, but I keep seeing this as well. I understand that a certain look and feel appeals to those of us who are Final Fantasy fans, but if FFXIV is any indication of quality we really shouldn't be judging a game by its graphics alone. It's like not seeing a movie because an actor you don't like is in it. It might be a gem of a movie but you are depriving yourself of the enjoyment for a superficial reason.
#47 Oct 28 2010 at 7:15 AM Rating: Decent
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Torrence wrote:
Quote:

I can say I have never played WOW ever. Never even tried it. Not because I'm anti WOW but to be honest simply because the look of the game seemed too cartoonish to me. Just my personal preference and opinion don't flame me for that I'm sure it's a great game.


I don't know if this is like some sort of badge of honor, but I keep seeing this as well. I understand that a certain look and feel appeals to those of us who are Final Fantasy fans, but if FFXIV is any indication of quality we really shouldn't be judging a game by its graphics alone. It's like not seeing a movie because an actor you don't like is in it. It might be a gem of a movie but you are depriving yourself of the enjoyment for a superficial reason.


Very true. This is constructive discussion not be-rating, Epeen comments unlike some in this thread thus far. Providing different perspectives and keeping an open mind is the spirit of what I wanted this thread to be like.

#48 Oct 28 2010 at 7:28 AM Rating: Decent
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Ruisu wrote:
In short, it's a bit unfair to compare killing rats that sneak into the inn's cellar every 48 hours to helping a dwarven archeology team recover the digging site they lost to an invasion of iron dwarves.
You'll find me wherever the action is.
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Melaahna Valiera
#50 Oct 28 2010 at 7:40 AM Rating: Excellent
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Don't be stupid. JP launch was FFXI's launch. NA launch was a year and a half later. You're wanting to compare a game a year and a half old to a game a month old and thinking you're making a point? Get a clue, sport. Count total local and regional levequests up to rank 20 and compare that to what FFXI had. Hint: FFXIV already has WAY more.


Don't be stupid. You're wanting to compare a game 8 years old to a game a month old and thinking you're making a point? Get a clue, sport. I was around way before NA release. The game was buggy in some places, but it had WAY more life and content than FFXIV. Hint: FFXIV already fell behind a looong way.
#51 Oct 28 2010 at 7:47 AM Rating: Good
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See There are a lot of people play FFXIV who for them this is there first MMO. They have no frame of reference. They realy dont know that a lack of content can kill a MMO faster than any bug or crapy UI. Then you have people who like to lie about all the MMOs they have played. This can be veary distructiv becuse they like to talk about things they know nothing about. They make wild claims that anyone who has played other mmos know to be wrong, But the guy who this is his first MMO will pull there frame of reference off this bad info and will think its fine for an MMO to go on like this. The thought being. "Oh well it has no content now but that will change in a year or so."

Here is a truth as I see it for you. Lack of content will kill a MMO faster than any other problem a MMO can have! If you realy love this game you need to know that it can not go on for long like this. People will get bord with the grind that is inevitable. And when they do they will quit. Most of them will not come back. Now thise will leave the game empty. If you think its hard to get a Group now just wait untill there are only 500-600 people on at peek times.

Content is what drives a MMO it is what drives the player to the lvl cap and the end-game. Content is not the end-game. Its not that Content git rid of the grind. Its that content mask the grind and makes you think that what you are doing has some effect in the world. It fleshs out the worlds story and makes you a part of it. The story quest you have now every 5-6 lvls are grate but they are not enuf to keep the game going. There needs to be small quest that bridge the gap.

They don't all need to be epic save the world quest. they could be short quest that tell the story of. "Drake the local fisher man who lost his fishing lour and thinks the marmots stole it." They could be any mondain task you can think of but just adding a bit of story to that task will flesh out the world and add depth! I love this game. I think it could be grate. But as I see it now this is the bigest problem pleuging FFXIV.
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