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#52 Oct 28 2010 at 10:43 AM Rating: Decent
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11,576 posts
Sethern79 wrote:

Your the one who said and I quote. "FFXI had less content than FFXIV at the NA launch" So it was not me that was doing this it was you. Maby you should go back and read your own post. I only pointed out how you where wrong!


At NA launch from levels 1-20 yes, FFXI DID have less content than FFXIV. FFXI from 1-20 at NA launch was the first handful of nation rank missions and a small handful of quests. Level 1-20 in FFXI was about as bland and dull as it gets aside from the nation missions, and there weren't a lot of those.

Quote:
And yes lies. Just a few post up you talk about WoW starting off with a lvl cap of 50 and say many times how so many mmo's launch with less content than FFXIV. This is an out and out LIE. You say you played 7 MMO's again I bet this is a LIE. Point to me the 7 mmos you played many of them with less content than FFXIV. You cant becuse it is a lie.


Nice leap in logic there sport. The WoW level cap was a mistake, not a lie. And the MMOs I've played were FFXI, WoW, AoC, Warhammer Online, Eve Online, LOTRO, and now FFXIV. I had level capped characters in three of those (obviously not counting XIV). I've also played Guild Wars, CoH, and Vendetta Online but I tend not to count those because I played them all for less than 10 hours.

Quote:
I would rather be a "twunt" Than a blind fanboy. It is people like you who make SE think it is ok to launch games that should be in Alpha let alone beta! I bet you would defend Ford if they sold you a car that got 2 miles to the gallon and had to be pushed up a hill.


I never said it was okay, but it is what it is and crying about it now is stupid. See how that works? It's too late for the whining. It's done. The game is live. You play it or you don't.
#53 Oct 28 2010 at 10:49 AM Rating: Good
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800 posts
Sethern79 wrote:
They don't all need to be epic save the world quest. they could be short quest that tell the story of. "Drake the local fisher man who lost his fishing lour and thinks the marmots stole it." They could be any mondain task you can think of but just adding a bit of story to that task will flesh out the world and add depth! I love this game. I think it could be grate. But as I see it now this is the bigest problem pleuging FFXIV.


I really think SE designed the leve system to be a hybrid between WoW quest style leveling and FFXI grind style leveling, and I think it almost succeeds. The problem in my eyes is that the exp/skill points rewarded are too low given the cooldown and the story behind each is lacking. In WoW you can do level-grind quests all day, right? But we can do all 8 battlecraft quests in 20 minutes if you stick to the objectives. SE either needs to make battlecraft leves truly take 30-60 minutes while fighting dozens upon dozens of mobs when strictly following the objectives, or let us do 20 at a time so we get some real accomplishment out of them. Fighting 8 mobs for 500 SP total (if lucky) is not worth a 36 hour cooldown. And like has been said, the story behind leves is easily forgotten because they all stand alone.
#54 Oct 28 2010 at 11:10 AM Rating: Decent
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mpjj wrote:
Awww... Did him get him's feeling's hurt?


Wow. I really bring out the best in people, don't I?
#55 Oct 28 2010 at 11:12 AM Rating: Good
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2,010 posts
Aurelius wrote:

Wow. I really bring out the best in people, don't I?


Well, it seems like lately we've been seeing the worst in you.......
#56 Oct 28 2010 at 11:45 AM Rating: Default
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11,576 posts
Torrence wrote:
Aurelius wrote:

Wow. I really bring out the best in people, don't I?


Well, it seems like lately we've been seeing the worst in you.......


If I don't have at least a small handful of people whining about me, I'm doing something wrong.
#57 Oct 28 2010 at 11:48 AM Rating: Good
22 posts
Aurelius wrote:
Torrence wrote:
Aurelius wrote:

Wow. I really bring out the best in people, don't I?


Well, it seems like lately we've been seeing the worst in you.......


If I don't have at least a small handful of people whining about me, I'm doing something wrong.


god you're an idiot
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chewy?
#58 Oct 28 2010 at 11:58 AM Rating: Default
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11,576 posts
corwen wrote:
Aurelius wrote:
Torrence wrote:
Aurelius wrote:

Wow. I really bring out the best in people, don't I?


Well, it seems like lately we've been seeing the worst in you.......


If I don't have at least a small handful of people whining about me, I'm doing something wrong.


god you're an idiot


Why you derail the passive aggressive complaint thread? WHY!?!
#59 Oct 28 2010 at 12:18 PM Rating: Good
12 posts
Hydragyrum wrote:
I'll admit I've only played FFXI and LoTRO before FFXIV, but how much content do we really expect in an MMO for the first 25% of the levels? In LoTRO, you just do level-grinding quests with the occasional story line quest. In FFXI you fight level-grinding mobs with the occasional story line quest. What is in FFXIV from rank 1-20? Level-grinding mobs with the occasional story line quest.

I guess I fail to see how rank 1-20 in FFXIV is any different than level 1-20 in FFXI or level 1-20 in LoTRO. What is there to do at levels 1-20 in WoW or EQ? That's an honest question because I've never played them.

If this is still all we see when the majority of us are rank 40+, then I'll change my tune, but right now it seems like typical MMO fare to me. The people who power level to the cap will never have enough content simply because they play the game more than developers have time to implement new content, making it literally impossible for there to be enough content for them.


This guy is right.
#60 Oct 28 2010 at 12:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Aurelius you never cease to entertain me XD

My thoughts~ yes we all know that the game was released in a rather unfinished state. That point has been made 1,000 times by now.

What I think is the root of the problem, and this is just my opinion, is that SE never listens to us and it shows. Some of the main issues in the game were around in Beta, and no doubt in Alpha. SE didn't learn much from XI and seems to have taken 1 step forward and 2 steps back.
Well, in this case more like 1 step to the side and 2 steps back into a ditch filled with used surgical equipment. (Thank you Yahtzee~)

The UI is somehow clunkier and even less friendly than XI's, server lag is a problem, Guild leves get old very quickly and unless u have a friend along aren't worth doing except for the decent pay out @ higher lvs.

I think my biggest and angriest complaint is that XI has been out for years, and has gotten even better with time. Why couldn't they take the successful elements of XI and implement them in XIV? Why would you remove an AH that fans cried for in XI, why would you make it so you can't do story missions w/ a friend/party when people enjoyed it so much in XI? Yes i understand XIV is targeting "Casual" players but even I, who am a fulltime student this year w/ limited free time get bored after doing 1 leve and go back to playing FFXI. Its just so uninteresting.
Heres a story that happened a few weeks ago to me and a buddy. I had about 2-3 hours to play on the weekend, i sat down got a leve started in gridania. Had to chase a leve target that flee'd and then got instakilled by the Angler fish that happened to be sitting next to a bunch of low lv moles. That is not good mob placement!

Or yesterday, i was exploring more of La Noscea and decided not to head to my usual dodo farming camp and to take the next bridge to the west. I crossed the bridge and was insta killed by a gian Eft or w/e the salamander lookin things are. Made me scream F*ck this! and i went to play more Vanquish.

Guild leves get old, and boring fast. FFXI may not have had great quests back when it launched but this is XIV. A game you've been workin on for 5 years. Incorporate the things you learned w/ XI! Oh well, i'll keep playin till my free 60days wears off, but if things dont pick up quick, i'll quit and come back in a few months when they do. I still have Abyssea to deal w/ in XI.
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#61 Oct 28 2010 at 12:37 PM Rating: Decent
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Aurelius wrote:
Sethern79 wrote:

Your the one who said and I quote. "FFXI had less content than FFXIV at the NA launch" So it was not me that was doing this it was you. Maby you should go back and read your own post. I only pointed out how you where wrong!


At NA launch from levels 1-20 yes, FFXI DID have less content than FFXIV. FFXI from 1-20 at NA launch was the first handful of nation rank missions and a small handful of quests. Level 1-20 in FFXI was about as bland and dull as it gets aside from the nation missions, and there weren't a lot of those.

Quote:
And yes lies. Just a few post up you talk about WoW starting off with a lvl cap of 50 and say many times how so many mmo's launch with less content than FFXIV. This is an out and out LIE. You say you played 7 MMO's again I bet this is a LIE. Point to me the 7 mmos you played many of them with less content than FFXIV. You cant becuse it is a lie.


Nice leap in logic there sport. The WoW level cap was a mistake, not a lie. And the MMOs I've played were FFXI, WoW, AoC, Warhammer Online, Eve Online, LOTRO, and now FFXIV. I had level capped characters in three of those (obviously not counting XIV). I've also played Guild Wars, CoH, and Vendetta Online but I tend not to count those because I played them all for less than 10 hours.

Quote:
I would rather be a "twunt" Than a blind fanboy. It is people like you who make SE think it is ok to launch games that should be in Alpha let alone beta! I bet you would defend Ford if they sold you a car that got 2 miles to the gallon and had to be pushed up a hill.


I never said it was okay, but it is what it is and crying about it now is stupid. See how that works? It's too late for the whining. It's done. The game is live. You play it or you don't.


First off no FFXI did not have less content than FFXIV at the NA launch. Its just not true. Why dont you go back and look at the the just the quest that are offerd in the starting areas. Not the mishions just the quest from lvl 1-20.

Each MMO you say you played launched with more content than we have now in FFXIV. The only 2 games I can not speek for are Eve online and Vendeta. never played them I wont coment on games I don't know. Last thing I am going to say here with you is this.

Its not whining its criticism. Criticism from poster and revewers by the way are what got us the free 60 days we have now. Its what got the devs realy taking a look at what is wrong with this game. It is why we have such hope for the patch to come in November. It is not stupid or pointless it is what is needed to get this game where it needs to be.

Those of us that don't jump on the ban wagon don't hate the game. I for one would love to see this game become grate. And I realy think it will. but at this point in time what this game needs is criticism and as much of it as we can dish out.
#62 Oct 28 2010 at 12:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Toukai wrote:
Aurelius you never cease to entertain me XD

My thoughts~ yes we all know that the game was released in a rather unfinished state. That point has been made 1,000 times by now.

What I think is the root of the problem, and this is just my opinion, is that SE never listens to us and it shows. Some of the main issues in the game were around in Beta, and no doubt in Alpha. SE didn't learn much from XI and seems to have taken 1 step forward and 2 steps back.
Well, in this case more like 1 step to the side and 2 steps back into a ditch filled with used surgical equipment. (Thank you Yahtzee~)


The point that I've been trying to make is that right now we've got a forum full of people who have absolutely no clue what goes into software development acting like they do and making ignorant comments stated as fact. They look at what SE has done since beta, apply their extremely narrow understanding of the process, and reach the conclusion that SE doesn't listen.

I'll tell you what is happening: people are ******* And in status quo fashion, they stop being objective. They start shooting from the hip. They become extremely closed minded. It's not SE that isn't listening...it's the whiners. They've been told that the issues that have been brought to SE's attention are being addressed. They've been told in very specific detail those issues that SE is focusing on. We haven't been told in specific detail exactly what SE has in mind to fix those issues, and they don't need to be told.

People are running out of patience. I get it. But running out of patience isn't justification to set aside intelligence for the sake of outrage. It's called a "mob mentality." And the more people that come along and start new threads to complain, the stronger the mob feels. And before you know it we get a situation like we have now. The boards were a **** show. The admins added the complaints thread and things simmered down for a bit. Now the new trend is to start a new thread ******** about the same broken record nonsense only to pepper it with begging and pleading not to take it as a complaint thread. If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, I don't give a **** if it tries to convince me it's not a duck. It's a duck.

Quote:
The UI is somehow clunkier and even less friendly than XI's, server lag is a problem, Guild leves get old very quickly and unless u have a friend along aren't worth doing except for the decent pay out @ higher lvs.


Yes. All of that yes. And I'm not saying that people who find these things to be troublesome are wrong. I'm saying that it's old news. Old news never gets new. It stays old news. I dislike the UI. I have since my first hour in open beta and it hasn't really changed. It was amazing what a difference it made when they removed the necessity to go through the Interaction menu to check a retainer's bazaar. Little tweaks and tuning like that can make an enormous difference to the game's playability...and SE is working on it. And if I'm going to be a fair and reasonable human being, when someone says they're working on an issue and give me a timeframe for when it's going to be fixed, I drop it. And if I can't manage to drop it, I either kvetch through the appropriate channels or I walk away. The thing is, I know enough about software development to know that when a game is in the late stages of development, there's typically a mile long list of things that need to be done and a finite amount of time in which to do them. At that point, it becomes necessary to prioritize. And if sudden changes are added into the mix, the list has to be re-prioritized. That doesn't mean that me, as a player, can expect my complaints to go to the top of that list. It seems that people are thinking that that's exactly what should have happened during open beta.

So SE has a list of things to do that realistically speaking would have required, say, 6 months to do properly and all of a sudden they find out they've got 2 months. I would expect a 9 year old child to not be able to rationalize the need for patience and to carry on and on and on about it. I find it highly mock-worthy that a forum community that happily denounces the rabid 12 yr olds who play WoW as immature and all that can't muster an adult level of patience and understanding.

Sometimes you just have to take a step back and look at the big picture. Not enough people are doing that. They're bawls deep in an emotional response and making ninnies and hypocrites of themselves in the process. And when I poke a little fun and do to them what they're doing to SE, just look at the mischief and mayhem that ensues. I am trying to keep a bit more of a lid on it this time around, but I warned certain people over a year ago that this forum would end up this way if a certain tone wasn't set and space for a larger demographic wasn't preserved and I was ignored. We've got the general tone of whining prevalent in the XI boards transplanted right here and it's not likely to go away any time soon, but that don't make it right.
#63 Oct 28 2010 at 12:53 PM Rating: Decent
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55 posts
corwen wrote:
Aurelius wrote:
Torrence wrote:
Aurelius wrote:

Wow. I really bring out the best in people, don't I?


Well, it seems like lately we've been seeing the worst in you.......


If I don't have at least a small handful of people whining about me, I'm doing something wrong.


god you're an idiot


Seems like everyone knows you're an idiot (AKA: DAMF) but you. Good luck with that Cpt. Delusional.

PS: I'm not whining about you; I'm just calling you out for being a Punk A$$ *****, Elitist D&%Khead. Plain and simple.

You can take the Elitist out of Fantasy Land but you can't keep them from running their mouths safely behind a keyboard on the internet. Cheered on by flunkies and rejects on forums about how they PWN NOOBS, created the MMORPG genre, extensively know all about producing, developing and programming when in fact they're sitting in mom's house eating a bag of cheetos. They are to be ZOMG worshiped as an E-God becuase of thier extensive knowledge of useless facts about sh*tty games and anime. Unite all you emo's and trench coaters that were picked on in high scool; UNITE and fight that all important e-battle of Elitist Epeening.

Edited, Oct 28th 2010 2:56pm by mpjj
#64 Oct 28 2010 at 12:53 PM Rating: Decent
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11,576 posts
Sethern79 wrote:

First off no FFXI did not have less content than FFXIV at the NA launch. Its just not true. Why dont you go back and look at the the just the quest that are offerd in the starting areas. Not the mishions just the quest from lvl 1-20.


A lot of the quests you're referring to were added in the patches and updates that followed NA launch. At NA launch, the selection of quests available in the level 1-20 range was extremely limited. You didn't do quests in FFXI on a regular basis...there weren't enough of them. You did a quest here and a quest there to break up the grind.

Quote:
Its not whining its criticism. Criticism from poster and revewers by the way are what got us the free 60 days we have now. Its what got the devs realy taking a look at what is wrong with this game. It is why we have such hope for the patch to come in November. It is not stupid or pointless it is what is needed to get this game where it needs to be.


The first time it comes up is criticism. The discussion that follows is a discussion around that criticism. The next time it's brought up in its own thread (right next to all the rest), it's whining.

Quote:
Those of us that don't jump on the ban wagon don't hate the game. I for one would love to see this game become grate. And I realy think it will. but at this point in time what this game needs is criticism and as much of it as we can dish out.


No, what this game needs right now is for people to stop fixating on things the devs have already said they're addressing for updates within the next two months. The squeaky wheel is in the process of being greased. You can stop squeaking now.

Edited, Oct 28th 2010 11:56am by Aurelius
#65 Oct 28 2010 at 12:55 PM Rating: Decent
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11,576 posts
mpjj wrote:
Seems like everyone knows you're an idiot (AKA: DAMF) but you. Good luck with that Cpt. Delusional.

PS: I'm not whining about you; I'm just calling you out for being a Punk A$$ *****, Elitist D&%Khead. Plain and simple.

You can take the Elitist out of Fantasy Land but you can't keep them from running their mouths safely behind a keyboard on the internet. Cheered on by flunkies and rejects on forums about how they PWN NOOBS, created the MMORPG genre and how they are to be ZOMG worshiped as an E-God becuase of thier extensive knowledge of useless facts about sh*tty games and anime. Unite all you emo's and trench coaters that were picked on in high scool; UNITE and fight that all important e-battle of Elitist Epeening.


From passive aggressive hippy crybaby to cursing, flaming, ignorant numpty in less than 24 hours. That's got to be **** near some kind of record. Well played, sir. Well played. Nice to see your true colors shining through. Carry on, then.
#66 Oct 28 2010 at 1:00 PM Rating: Default
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Really? You felt the need to write an essay about this?

Really?

Really?!?
#67 Oct 28 2010 at 1:00 PM Rating: Default
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Aurelius wrote:
The point that I've been trying to make is that right now we've got a forum full of people who have absolutely no clue what goes into software development acting like they do and making ignorant comments stated as fact. They look at what SE has done since beta, apply their extremely narrow understanding of the process, and reach the conclusion that SE doesn't listen.


Case in point; armchair developer/programmer.
#68 Oct 28 2010 at 1:02 PM Rating: Default
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55 posts
Aurelius wrote:
mpjj wrote:
Seems like everyone knows you're an idiot (AKA: DAMF) but you. Good luck with that Cpt. Delusional.

PS: I'm not whining about you; I'm just calling you out for being a Punk A$$ *****, Elitist D&%Khead. Plain and simple.

You can take the Elitist out of Fantasy Land but you can't keep them from running their mouths safely behind a keyboard on the internet. Cheered on by flunkies and rejects on forums about how they PWN NOOBS, created the MMORPG genre and how they are to be ZOMG worshiped as an E-God becuase of thier extensive knowledge of useless facts about sh*tty games and anime. Unite all you emo's and trench coaters that were picked on in high scool; UNITE and fight that all important e-battle of Elitist Epeening.


From passive aggressive hippy crybaby to cursing, flaming, ignorant numpty in less than 24 hours. That's got to be **** near some kind of record. Well played, sir. Well played. Nice to see your true colors shining through. Carry on, then.


No I'm just allergic to dumbass and it makes me react that way.

Sometimes daddy has to scold his children; it hurts and I'm sorry but know that I do it because I love you. Now go to your room.

Edited, Oct 28th 2010 3:04pm by mpjj
#69 Oct 28 2010 at 1:13 PM Rating: Decent
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Aurelius wrote:
Sethern79 wrote:

First off no FFXI did not have less content than FFXIV at the NA launch. Its just not true. Why dont you go back and look at the the just the quest that are offerd in the starting areas. Not the mishions just the quest from lvl 1-20.


A lot of the quests you're referring to were added in the patches and updates that followed NA launch. At NA launch, the selection of quests available in the level 1-20 range was extremely limited. You didn't do quests in FFXI on a regular basis...there weren't enough of them. You did a quest here and a quest there to break up the grind.

Quote:
Its not whining its criticism. Criticism from poster and revewers by the way are what got us the free 60 days we have now. Its what got the devs realy taking a look at what is wrong with this game. It is why we have such hope for the patch to come in November. It is not stupid or pointless it is what is needed to get this game where it needs to be.


The first time it comes up is criticism. The discussion that follows is a discussion around that criticism. The next time it's brought up in its own thread (right next to all the rest), it's whining.

Quote:
Those of us that don't jump on the ban wagon don't hate the game. I for one would love to see this game become grate. And I realy think it will. but at this point in time what this game needs is criticism and as much of it as we can dish out.


No, what this game needs right now is for people to stop fixating on things the devs have already said they're addressing for updates within the next two months. The squeaky wheel is in the process of being greased. You can stop squeaking now.

Edited, Oct 28th 2010 11:56am by Aurelius


Yes a lot of quest did come out in a patch. But there where still more than we see in ffxiv. infact one of the big content patches fo FFXI was the day befor NA launch. Think the fact here is you and I will never agree on this point.

MMOs are what I do. No I am not a programer or any of that. I think anyone that looks at my spelling can tell that. But I have spent a veary large amount of my life devoted to MMOs. (Call that sad if you like. some people us go out and drink or party. I play games.)I have seen so many MMOS launch at times they get mixed in my head. I have been the guy defending a game. (WoW I still defend to this day. It mite have been bugy but it was still one **** of a good launch. Most of the bugs where becuse Blizzard did not know just how many people where going to flud the game day one.)

Agen on this I don't think you and I will see eye to eye on. I feel this game needs criticism. I can see how you would look at it as crying. But to tell you the truth. You should look at the WoW forums the first month of launch. That was crying. For the love of god EQ players started a boycot becuse SOE had the nerve to charge a subscription fee.

This is the first post I can recall spending time in about content in this game. This is the problem that I see as huge wall that SE will need to clime to make this game great. I think they can do it. I look back at the CoP expantion for FFXI and all the great content that came with it and know SE can do it. But I will voice my feelings on this untill they do.

Edited, Oct 28th 2010 3:14pm by Sethern79
#70 Oct 28 2010 at 1:26 PM Rating: Default
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Sethern79 wrote:
Aurelius wrote:
Sethern79 wrote:

First off no FFXI did not have less content than FFXIV at the NA launch. Its just not true. Why dont you go back and look at the the just the quest that are offerd in the starting areas. Not the mishions just the quest from lvl 1-20.


A lot of the quests you're referring to were added in the patches and updates that followed NA launch. At NA launch, the selection of quests available in the level 1-20 range was extremely limited. You didn't do quests in FFXI on a regular basis...there weren't enough of them. You did a quest here and a quest there to break up the grind.

Quote:
Its not whining its criticism. Criticism from poster and revewers by the way are what got us the free 60 days we have now. Its what got the devs realy taking a look at what is wrong with this game. It is why we have such hope for the patch to come in November. It is not stupid or pointless it is what is needed to get this game where it needs to be.


The first time it comes up is criticism. The discussion that follows is a discussion around that criticism. The next time it's brought up in its own thread (right next to all the rest), it's whining.

Quote:
Those of us that don't jump on the ban wagon don't hate the game. I for one would love to see this game become grate. And I realy think it will. but at this point in time what this game needs is criticism and as much of it as we can dish out.


No, what this game needs right now is for people to stop fixating on things the devs have already said they're addressing for updates within the next two months. The squeaky wheel is in the process of being greased. You can stop squeaking now.

Edited, Oct 28th 2010 11:56am by Aurelius


Yes a lot of quest did come out in a patch. But there where still more than we see in ffxiv. infact one of the big content patches fo FFXI was the day befor NA launch. Think the fact here is you and I will never agree on this point.

MMOs are what I do. No I am not a programer or any of that. I think anyone that looks at my spelling can tell that. But I have spent a veary large amount of my life devoted to MMOs. (Call that sad if you like. some people us go out and drink or party. I play games.)I have seen so many MMOS launch at times they get mixed in my head. I have been the guy defending a game. (WoW I still defend to this day. It mite have been bugy but it was still one **** of a good launch. Most of the bugs where becuse Blizzard did not know just how many people where going to flud the game day one.)

Agen on this I don't think you and I will see eye to eye on. I feel this game needs criticism. I can see how you would look at it as crying. But to tell you the truth. You should look at the WoW forums the first month of launch. That was crying. For the love of god EQ players started a boycot becuse SOE had the nerve to charge a subscription fee.

This is the first post I can recall spending time in about content in this game. This is the problem that I see as huge wall that SE will need to clime to make this game great. I think they can do it. I look back at the CoP expantion for FFXI and all the great content that came with it and know SE can do it. But I will voice my feelings on this untill they do.

Edited, Oct 28th 2010 3:14pm by Sethern79


Don't worry about Aureli-*******. He's a sad little man that can't take his own advice. he likes to argue for the sake of arguing

Aurelius wrote:
HAVING A **** SPINE AND SPEAKING MY MIND WITHOUT BEING A SISSY ABOUT IT...


See he likes to give us gems like this but only if you speak your mind without being a sissy and agree with him. If it doesn't follow that pattern he gets ***** and doesn't seem capable of having a discussion rather he would like to just toot his horn and tell you how it really is (that's how it really is in his delusional mind). Clearly we aren't capable of having an opinion or forming one on our own without having to take in his pearls of wisdom.

You can't reason or argue with people like that; let alone try to have a civil conversation or discussion. They are always right and always will be right even when they're melting in the flames by God they wouldn't admit their house is on fire.
#71 Oct 28 2010 at 2:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Sethern79 wrote:

Yes a lot of quest did come out in a patch. But there where still more than we see in ffxiv. infact one of the big content patches fo FFXI was the day befor NA launch. Think the fact here is you and I will never agree on this point.


We aren't going to agree because you're wrong.

Total of 112 quests listed for Bastok. I'm assuming the list is current and up to date. I'm using Bastok as a comparison because that was my home nation in XI and the city I'm most familiar with. I went through and counted quests that we could deduct from that total that aren't applicable to a comparison of games at launch because they're special event quests, rank missions (not comparing nation missions...quests only), AF quests, summoner avatar quests (because you have to have a level 30 job to unlock summoner in the first place, they don't count as being in the level 1-20 range), quests that have an explicit level listed higher than 20, and quests that otherwise list a level at or below 20 but cannot be done until much later and we end up with.....

A minimum of 42 quests that don't get counted because they don't apply to a new player at or below rank 20. There's probably more in there, too but 42 is enough. So we take 42 away from 112 and we get 70. That's a very generous number for your side of the argument. If I wanted to take the time to sit down and weed out the ones that weren't there at NA launch or that you couldn't reasonably expect a new level 1-20 player to do in the first month of launch, that number would be even smaller. That's my gift to you. 70.

There are 8 DoH classes. For each DoH class, there is a minimum of 2 local levequests every 5 ranks starting at rank 1. So rank 1,5, 10, 15, and 20. More than 2 a lot of times. I'm counting it as a distinct quest based on rank and items you're asked to make, not name, because we're assessing content and if there's a quest that I can do at rank 1 that asks me to do something and a quest at rank 10 that asks me to do something different, name doesn't matter. So that's my effort to be fair...counting only 2 local leves per rank, otherwise it would probably work out to 3-4 per rank and then you'd really be @#%^ed.

5 rank brackets at 2 local leves per bracket times 8 DoH classes is 80 quests. And that's per city, keep in mind.

Goddamit and I was trying to be fair but I haven't even touched battlecraft leves or fieldcraft leves and we're already at more in FFXIV than FFXI. Well sh*t, sport. I tried. But since we're here...

2 fieldcraft leves from each city for ranks 1 and 10 respectively is another 4 quests per DoL class. 3 DoL classes brings fieldcraft leve total for ranks 1 adnd 10 to 12. Note I'm not counting rank 20 leves here because they're split between cities right now so again, a little gift to you. Each city has a total of 2 rank 20 leves for DoL classes, bringing total fieldcraft leves per city to 14.

Battlecraft leves. Hmm. 3 per city for each rank bracket (1, 10, 20). That sound about right? If not we can adjust but I'm going to say for now that three per rank bracket is fair. So 9 more.

18 classes with their own distinct class quests at rank 20. But no, that wouldn't be fair either because we're comparing one city to another so we're just going to go with Ul'dah vs. Bastok. Nope. Can't do Ul'dah vs. Bastok either...wouldn't be fair. Ul'dah has 7 guilds out of 18 classes. Hmmm...LL? One of the cities can only have 5 guilds if Ul'dah has 7, so whatever city that is, that's the one we'll use. So 5 rank 20 class quests for that city added to our total brings us to...

108 quests.

Ooo. Ouch. Game at launch has almost as many quests up to rank 20 for one city as FFXI has for one city through all level ranges 8 years into service. Eeee. Maybe Windurst has more? Do you feel like counting? I don't.

And if we were to compare nation missions...FFXIV has the edge there, too. Level cap for BCNM dragon fight for rank 4 (?) was 25, right? So 3 tiers of rank missions ending at 25...a bit over but I'll give it to you. 4 tiers of nation missions in XIV ending at rank 20. And no, you don't get to say XI's nation missions were more substantial because they had you beat feet around the globe. Without a chocobo. Or an airship. "Run for an hour" =/= content. Not really.

So ya. I'm not gonna lie...sometimes I like to see what kind of retarded comeback people can come up with to try and save face when the facts are presented to them, but right now I'm not really interested so try if you must, but I reckon you're just going to be digging deeper.

Quote:
Agen on this I don't think you and I will see eye to eye on. I feel this game needs criticism.


I think the game has received criticism. Now it's time to be grown ups and let the devs do their thing. Unless you have something new to bring to the table. Something that hasn't been discussed before, maybe? You know...a contribution instead of just taking up more space repeating the same tired old sh*t.


Edited, Oct 28th 2010 1:07pm by Aurelius
#72 Oct 28 2010 at 2:51 PM Rating: Decent
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Aurelius wrote:
Sethern79 wrote:

Yes a lot of quest did come out in a patch. But there where still more than we see in ffxiv. infact one of the big content patches fo FFXI was the day befor NA launch. Think the fact here is you and I will never agree on this point.


We aren't going to agree because you're wrong.

Total of 112 quests listed for Bastok. I'm assuming the list is current and up to date. I'm using Bastok as a comparison because that was my home nation in XI and the city I'm most familiar with. I went through and counted quests that we could deduct from that total that aren't applicable to a comparison of games at launch because they're special event quests, rank missions (not comparing nation missions...quests only), AF quests, summoner avatar quests (because you have to have a level 30 job to unlock summoner in the first place, they don't count as being in the level 1-20 range), quests that have an explicit level listed higher than 20, and quests that otherwise list a level at or below 20 but cannot be done until much later and we end up with.....

A minimum of 42 quests that don't get counted because they don't apply to a new player at or below rank 20. There's probably more in there, too but 42 is enough. So we take 42 away from 112 and we get 70. That's a very generous number for your side of the argument. If I wanted to take the time to sit down and weed out the ones that weren't there at NA launch or that you couldn't reasonably expect a new level 1-20 player to do in the first month of launch, that number would be even smaller. That's my gift to you. 70.

There are 8 DoH classes. For each DoH class, there is a minimum of 2 local levequests every 5 ranks starting at rank 1. So rank 1,5, 10, 15, and 20. More than 2 a lot of times. I'm counting it as a distinct quest based on rank and items you're asked to make, not name, because we're assessing content and if there's a quest that I can do at rank 1 that asks me to do something and a quest at rank 10 that asks me to do something different, name doesn't matter. So that's my effort to be fair...counting only 2 local leves per rank, otherwise it would probably work out to 3-4 per rank and then you'd really be @#%^ed.

5 rank brackets at 2 local leves per bracket times 8 DoH classes is 80 quests. And that's per city, keep in mind.

Goddamit and I was trying to be fair but I haven't even touched battlecraft leves or fieldcraft leves and we're already at more in FFXIV than FFXI. Well sh*t, sport. I tried. But since we're here...

2 fieldcraft leves from each city for ranks 1 and 10 respectively is another 4 quests per DoL class. 3 DoL classes brings fieldcraft leve total for ranks 1 adnd 10 to 12. Note I'm not counting rank 20 leves here because they're split between cities right now so again, a little gift to you. Each city has a total of 2 rank 20 leves for DoL classes, bringing total fieldcraft leves per city to 14.

Battlecraft leves. Hmm. 3 per city for each rank bracket (1, 10, 20). That sound about right? If not we can adjust but I'm going to say for now that three per rank bracket is fair. So 9 more.

18 classes with their own distinct class quests at rank 20. But no, that wouldn't be fair either because we're comparing one city to another so we're just going to go with Ul'dah vs. Bastok. Nope. Can't do Ul'dah vs. Bastok either...wouldn't be fair. Ul'dah has 7 guilds out of 18 classes. Hmmm...LL? One of the cities can only have 5 guilds if Ul'dah has 7, so whatever city that is, that's the one we'll use. So 5 rank 20 class quests for that city added to our total brings us to...

108 quests.

Ooo. Ouch. Game at launch has almost as many quests up to rank 20 for one city as FFXI has for one city through all level ranges 8 years into service. Eeee. Maybe Windurst has more? Do you feel like counting? I don't.

And if we were to compare nation missions...FFXIV has the edge there, too. Level cap for BCNM dragon fight for rank 4 (?) was 25, right? So 3 tiers of rank missions ending at 25...a bit over but I'll give it to you. 4 tiers of nation missions in XIV ending at rank 20. And no, you don't get to say XI's nation missions were more substantial because they had you beat feet around the globe. Without a chocobo. Or an airship. "Run for an hour" =/= content. Not really.

So ya. I'm not gonna lie...sometimes I like to see what kind of retarded comeback people can come up with to try and save face when the facts are presented to them, but right now I'm not really interested so try if you must, but I reckon you're just going to be digging deeper.

Quote:
Agen on this I don't think you and I will see eye to eye on. I feel this game needs criticism.


I think the game has received criticism. Now it's time to be grown ups and let the devs do their thing. Unless you have something new to bring to the table. Something that hasn't been discussed before, maybe? You know...a contribution instead of just taking up more space repeating the same tired old sh*t.


Edited, Oct 28th 2010 1:07pm by Aurelius


You know its funy how to come up with your number you had to include the quest (if you can call then that.)from 8 DOH classes 3 DOL classes and for your math 5 Dow/Dom classes. Its veary telling that To make your point one would need to lvl 8+3+5=16. 16 Classes to lvl 20! I don't need to say anymore than that.

Ither way you compairing 1 city vs 1 city. Wont work. If we take and compair all quest to lvl 20. You have windurst/Bastok/San d'Oria. Then in each city you had what was it 2 camps? I could be wrong here all of wich offerd you quest. Then you had Juno with quest in the 15-20 range. The port in the dunes had many quest. Each starting area had what 3 zones around it to lvl in from 1-20 all with there own quest. and this is from playing one class to lvl 20. Not taking 16 or all of them if you want to lvl 20.

You are the one who is wrong. Your just too blind to see it.

#73 Oct 28 2010 at 3:05 PM Rating: Decent
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11,576 posts
Sethern79 wrote:
[
You know its funy how to come up with your number you had to include the quest (if you can call then that.)from 8 DOH classes 3 DOL classes and for your math 5 Dow/Dom classes. Its veary telling that To make your point one would need to lvl 8+3+5=16. 16 Classes to lvl 20! I don't need to say anymore than that.


I had a feeling you were going to say something like that. I don't give a rat's *** if the process is appealing to you or not. I found most of the quests in FFXI to be pointless fluffy **** but I don't deny that they count as content. The content is there. If you aren't willing to undertake the process in order to access it, that's your choice, but you don't get to talk like it's not there. The lion's share of the quests I mentioned...the 80 DoH classes? You can level them on nothing but leves having never used your own mats or shards. The only cost to you would be the tools and the time. Don't like crafting? Don't want to invest the time? I didn't like the idea of mining Darksteel out of Zeruhn, either, but I still counted that PoS quest as one of the ones in the level 1-20 stretch. So get real or gtfo.

Quote:
Ither way you compairing 1 city vs 1 city. Wont work. If we take and compair all quest to lvl 20. You have windurst/Bastok/San d'Oria. Then in each city you had what was it 2 camps? I could be wrong here all of wich offerd you quest. Then you had Juno with quest in the 15-20 range. The port in the dunes had many quest. Each starting area had what 3 zones around it to lvl in from 1-20 all with there own quest. and this is from playing one class to lvl 20. Not taking 16 or all of them if you want to lvl 20.


There were no camps in the cities, sport. There were the cities. The whole city. All of Bastok is one city. Within those cities were typically 4 zones + mog houses (*cough* PS2 limitations *cough*), but it was one whole city and the quests I listed for Bastok were from the entire city. The port in the Dunes didn't have "many" quests. Selbina has 11 quests. You might want to recount just how many quests there actually are in Jeuno that you could reasonably expect to complete at or below level 20. Most of them are AF, limit break, mission related, or not the kind of thing most people are going to be doing at 20.

Quote:

You are the one who is wrong. Your just too blind to see it.



You're going to want to get a whole lot more intelligent between now and the next time you post or you need to be prepared for some good ol' fashioned mockery of the highest order.
#74 Oct 28 2010 at 3:16 PM Rating: Decent
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283 posts
Aurelius wrote:
Sethern79 wrote:
[
You know its funy how to come up with your number you had to include the quest (if you can call then that.)from 8 DOH classes 3 DOL classes and for your math 5 Dow/Dom classes. Its veary telling that To make your point one would need to lvl 8+3+5=16. 16 Classes to lvl 20! I don't need to say anymore than that.


I had a feeling you were going to say something like that. I don't give a rat's *** if the process is appealing to you or not. I found most of the quests in FFXI to be pointless fluffy sh*t but I don't deny that they count as content. The content is there. If you aren't willing to undertake the process in order to access it, that's your choice, but you don't get to talk like it's not there. The lion's share of the quests I mentioned...the 80 DoH classes? You can level them on nothing but leves having never used your own mats or shards. The only cost to you would be the tools and the time. Don't like crafting? Don't want to invest the time? I didn't like the idea of mining Darksteel out of Zeruhn, either, but I still counted that PoS quest as one of the ones in the level 1-20 stretch. So get real or gtfo.

Quote:
Ither way you compairing 1 city vs 1 city. Wont work. If we take and compair all quest to lvl 20. You have windurst/Bastok/San d'Oria. Then in each city you had what was it 2 camps? I could be wrong here all of wich offerd you quest. Then you had Juno with quest in the 15-20 range. The port in the dunes had many quest. Each starting area had what 3 zones around it to lvl in from 1-20 all with there own quest. and this is from playing one class to lvl 20. Not taking 16 or all of them if you want to lvl 20.


There were no camps in the cities, sport. There were the cities. The whole city. All of Bastok is one city. Within those cities were typically 4 zones + mog houses (*cough* PS2 limitations *cough*), but it was one whole city and the quests I listed for Bastok were from the entire city. The port in the Dunes didn't have "many" quests. Selbina has 11 quests. You might want to recount just how many quests there actually are in Jeuno that you could reasonably expect to complete at or below level 20. Most of them are AF, limit break, mission related, or not the kind of thing most people are going to be doing at 20.

Quote:

You are the one who is wrong. Your just too blind to see it.



You're going to want to get a whole lot more intelligent between now and the next time you post or you need to be prepared for some good ol' fashioned mockery of the highest order.


You know I was going to keep arguing with you but I just figerd out I don't care. You can think your write all you want but you are not. You are just a dumb **** lil ***** fanboy that will defend this game untill the day it dies. I could prove this game was giving you cancer and you would still defend it.

Im done with you.

If anyone wants to truly talk about content I will still be here to read post.
#75 Oct 28 2010 at 3:29 PM Rating: Default
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11,576 posts
Sethern79 wrote:


You know I was going to keep arguing with you but I just figerd out I don't care. You can think your write all you want but you are not. You are just a dumb @#%^ lil ***** fanboy that will defend this game untill the day it dies.


Nice. Very convincing.

Quote:
I could prove this game was giving you cancer and you would still defend it.


lol

No really, that's not sarcasm or hyperbole. I'm actually laughing right now. That was @#%^ing epic.

Quote:
Im done with you.


kbainao

Editor's note: He's not actually done with me. They never are. He's going to fume and bluster and allow the indignant emo rage to fester until he just can't help himself. By typing this I'm hoping he'll simply shut up out of spite to prove me wrong. Maybe he will. Maybe he won't. Either way, I win.

Edited, Oct 28th 2010 2:30pm by Aurelius
#76 Oct 28 2010 at 3:36 PM Rating: Decent
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222 posts
Aurelius wrote:
Sethern79 wrote:


You know I was going to keep arguing with you but I just figerd out I don't care. You can think your write all you want but you are not. You are just a dumb @#%^ lil ***** fanboy that will defend this game untill the day it dies.


Nice. Very convincing.

Quote:
I could prove this game was giving you cancer and you would still defend it.


lol

No really, that's not sarcasm or hyperbole. I'm actually laughing right now. That was @#%^ing epic.

Quote:
Im done with you.


kbainao

Editor's note: He's not actually done with me. They never are. He's going to fume and bluster and allow the indignant emo rage to fester until he just can't help himself. By typing this I'm hoping he'll simply shut up out of spite to prove me wrong. Maybe he will. Maybe he won't. Either way, I win.

Edited, Oct 28th 2010 2:30pm by Aurelius


You win what?
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#77 Oct 28 2010 at 4:23 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I had a feeling you were going to say something like that. I don't give a rat's *** if the process is appealing to you or not. I found most of the quests in FFXI to be pointless fluffy sh*t but I don't deny that they count as content. The content is there

It's difficult to compare leves for crafting and gathering with low level quests from XI. Gathering and crafting were parts of XI as well, and though they didn't have quests associated with them in the same manner as XIV does, they still took up time and provided stuff to do.

You're equivocating when you say that all of these quests count towards the same type of content that XI included. It's only from the most narrow point of view that they can be considered as such.

Quote:
You didn't do quests in FFXI on a regular basis...there weren't enough of them. You did a quest here and a quest there to break up the grind.

This is true. However, in XIV, the quests are simply more of the grind. They don't break it up, they merely offer slightly better rewards for doing it in small bursts.
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#78 Oct 28 2010 at 4:45 PM Rating: Good
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9,526 posts
I have to say that it is really sad that someone can come out and actually prove that from R1-R20 there is more content in FFXIV than in FFXI for level 1-20 (after 8 years of development) - and people will just deny the argument instead of actually debating based on the facts.

(Also Aur, you forgot to count 3 factions with R20 faction quests - doable at R20 and below!)

Myself, I have to say, I understand people who don't feel like the levequests are meaty enough for them. I actually agree that they don't really feel as substantial in a lot of respects - partially because you just get them from the same person like a grocery list. I do miss story arcs like the star onion brigade quests, for example.

But not liking the content and not having content are two very different things.

The argument could be made that levequests are less substantial than -some- of the content in FFXI, however. I would agree with that to some extent.

But god, I will take levequests over finding the right smooth stone for that ****** at the rarab tail inn.

____________________________
lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#79 Oct 28 2010 at 4:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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I read a lot of the posts on this forum and am actually pretty happy that this hadn't turned into a flame war troll thread. In regards to the OP -

The reason you feel the game is so barren, is that it was released too early. Knowing that should answer any question asked about content at this point. We can debate the reasons why and ask how and then explain why again, but no matter what, this game was premature and thus, there is no reward for lvling outside what you reward yourself with.

Had this game been release in full and with content ready, this would be a much more debatable question because the game was as it should have been. Sadly, every answer to the question, why do we (fill in) will be answered by premature release.

Now, I have a different outlook on this unfortunate debacle. I actually was biting at my nails for this game to release and felt the crushing blow of it's lack of entirety. However, I now can play the game and advance my character, bugs and all, while waiting for the real version of this game to release. Not everyone can see it my way, that's fine, but when this game takes off, I will be ahead of the curve. I am driven by that notion, so even when i'm mindlessly grinding my crafts/gathering/fighting classes, I know that every level I gain is one less that I will have to revisit when the game gets patched.

If I were asked, would you pay money to play ffxiv before official release to get a headstart on the game, I would have said yes. It is unfortunate that reality was given instead of offered. But I enjoy the game in my own way and I see this part of the game as the "training" leading up to the release of what it was intended for.

I think the answer to what is waiting for us end game? or reason to level can only be answered by ourselves until SE releases the content they should've held the game for. Hope that somehow illuminates the question asked or helps drive the need/want/desire to level for you. If not, I hope you come back (if you ever leave) down the road and maybe we can party up or I can make you some gear ^^

~Skye
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#80 Oct 28 2010 at 4:46 PM Rating: Decent
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CatPredator wrote:
Quote:
I had a feeling you were going to say something like that. I don't give a rat's *** if the process is appealing to you or not. I found most of the quests in FFXI to be pointless fluffy sh*t but I don't deny that they count as content. The content is there

It's difficult to compare leves for crafting and gathering with low level quests from XI. Gathering and crafting were parts of XI as well, and though they didn't have quests associated with them in the same manner as XIV does, they still took up time and provided stuff to do.

You're equivocating when you say that all of these quests count towards the same type of content that XI included. It's only from the most narrow point of view that they can be considered as such.


The difficulty is that we're talking about two different games. No two games are fully similar so we look at one of the most basic elements...the quest. FFXI quests in terms of what you actually did were exceptionally primitive. I was never fooled by the cutesy "cinematics" (see also: change of music accompanied by scripted camera movement around scripted model movement behind a text log explaining to you what was being said.) Don't get me wrong...I enjoyed a lot of the quests in XI. I also thought a lot (most) of them were overdone and overdramatized and SE really just threw in an awful lot of travel as the primary requirement to completing so many of these noble, epic journeys.

And honestly as far as this quests in FFXI vs. FFXIV fiasco goes, it's not even a function of opinion. It's not a function of which system you like more. It's hard, cold numbers and what those numbers say is that you can dislike XIV's system and you can take issues with how the leves or done or how much entertainment they bring to the game for you, but what you can't argue is that they're not there. And if they're there, they're content. And for a game that shipped incomplete to still have as much if not more quest content as FFXI had several years into service is a step up. It may not be a big enough step up for you and that's fine but you can't say it's not a step up.

It's about the veracity of the statements and sorting out statements that reflect opinion and statements that twist facts because of opinion. Have your opinion. Live your opinion. Defend your opinion. Just don't cross that line from "this is my opinion" to "this is my opinion and as a result, the earth is flat."
#81 Oct 28 2010 at 4:49 PM Rating: Default
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Olorinus the Vile wrote:
I have to say that it is really sad that someone can come out and actually prove that from R1-R20 there is more content in FFXIV than in FFXI for level 1-20 (after 8 years of development) - and people will just deny the argument instead of actually debating based on the facts.

(Also Aur, you forgot to count 3 factions with R20 faction quests - doable at R20 and below!)


Ya, I was just thinking about those a few minutes ago but I left it alone because I haven't actually done any, and knowing the way people argue around here I'd probably make a mistake about how they work and then some twit would use that one mistake as justification to say that nothing else I brought up was valid, either. Or tell me that I was lying about faction leves. Or something. You know. You know?
#82 Oct 28 2010 at 4:54 PM Rating: Good
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9,526 posts
Aurelius wrote:
Olorinus the Vile wrote:
I have to say that it is really sad that someone can come out and actually prove that from R1-R20 there is more content in FFXIV than in FFXI for level 1-20 (after 8 years of development) - and people will just deny the argument instead of actually debating based on the facts.

(Also Aur, you forgot to count 3 factions with R20 faction quests - doable at R20 and below!)


Ya, I was just thinking about those a few minutes ago but I left it alone because I haven't actually done any, and knowing the way people argue around here I'd probably make a mistake about how they work and then some twit would use that one mistake as justification to say that nothing else I brought up was valid, either. Or tell me that I was lying about faction leves. Or something. You know. You know?


I did one, it was actually really cool... the music was awesome and you had to get the mission from a friendly npc... then I had to kill a bunch of rats and a wizard. Neat. I am only sad I did it on 1 star because I was worried about difficulty but it turns out it was really easy at R20.
____________________________
lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#83 Oct 28 2010 at 5:08 PM Rating: Default
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11,576 posts
Olorinus the Vile wrote:
I did one, it was actually really cool... the music was awesome and you had to get the mission from a friendly npc... then I had to kill a bunch of rats and a wizard. Neat. I am only sad I did it on 1 star because I was worried about difficulty but it turns out it was really easy at R20.


For some reason, I think I'm still traumatized by the stack and a half of beastmen seals I dropped in FFXI back when nobody really seemed to know what they were for. I've got enough faction credits by now for at least one rank 20 leve from each faction, but then I think that maybe I should wait until rank 30, or 40, or 50. Ya, ya! 50. But...curiosity...it gnaws at me...must...NO! Wait! Save them! Oooo shiny!

And so you see, it usually goes nowhere.
#84 Oct 28 2010 at 5:12 PM Rating: Decent
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100 posts
Quote:
I have to say that it is really sad that someone can come out and actually prove that from R1-R20 there is more content in FFXIV than in FFXI for level 1-20 (after 8 years of development) - and people will just deny the argument instead of actually debating based on the facts.


I must say your definition of "proof" is rather lacking in this case. Comparing the number of quests is not a rigorous way of comparing the amount of content in two games.

Quote:
And if they're [quests] there, they're content. And for a game that shipped incomplete to still have as much if not more quest content as FFXI had several years into service is a step up. It may not be a big enough step up for you and that's fine but you can't say it's not a step up.


The problem is that 1 quest doesn't translate to one "unit of content". You can't use the number of quests in a game to derive some numerical value of content. The best you could hope to do would be to calculate the amount of time it takes to complete each quest, add them up, and then say there are XX hours of content.

Example: The leve quests for crafting don't necessarily constitute more content than just leveling your crafts in XI. They've simply turned part of it into a quest.

Another problem arises because each quest might appear different, but if the differences are only superficial, then it's merely recycled content. In this case, the amount of time spent completing the quests is no longer sufficient for establishing how much unique content is in the game.

Example: Leve quests for different jobs. Now, there are more classes to play than XI had at launch, so in that respect, XIV is the clear winner. But the number of quests don't accurately reflect that.

I'm not going to come out and say which game is better or more substantial than the other but the foundation of your argument here is not built on solid ground. The flavor of what's in the game is just as important as the amount. If it all tastes the same, then it shouldn't be considered different.
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Homer no function beer well without.
#85 Oct 28 2010 at 8:29 PM Rating: Good
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3,530 posts
Torrence wrote:
The game isn't a month old. It's five years one month old.


This does not make any sense. Are you telling me that the PlayStation 4 is already X years old? Are you suggesting that Nintendo's 3DS is approaching its fourth birthday? If so, it's doing quite badly for a four-year-old system -- it hasn't even sold one unit!

Come now, you know that is not the way we count the age of something; Final Fantasy XIV is not a five-year-old game.
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"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#86 Oct 28 2010 at 8:36 PM Rating: Good
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Aurelius wrote:

Goddamit and I was trying to be fair but I haven't even touched battlecraft leves or fieldcraft leves and we're already at more in FFXIV than FFXI. Well sh*t, sport. I tried. But since we're here...


If leves = quests, then WoW quests = novels.
____________________________
"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#87 Oct 28 2010 at 8:42 PM Rating: Default
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All I have to say about this thead is wow, theres a lot of young angry men in here raging on SE or whoever cause they purchased a game they thought was going to be one way and it isnt.

Yes yes, I understand its hard to deal with the harsh reality of not being in control of a major corporation or having any influence over them.

My suggestion to anyone whose actually taking this game way to seriously is to walk away, hike, travel.
#88 Oct 28 2010 at 9:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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@ Aurelius

And i agree, yes to mostly all of your response to my post. However i'm not sure i conveyed my meaning as well as i meant to. When i say SE never listens to us, i don't just mean w/ the month or so XIV has been out and however long the beta was around for, i mean EVER.

For example I've played XI for the past 5 years or so, there were a lot of issues with the game at the time and a lot of those issues persisted and still do. It was my 1st mmo so i just kind of rolled w/ it, kind of expecting all games are this hard and unfriendly i guess. A lot of bugs and generally stupid design choices were fixed, but its took years at a time. There were countless threads, messages and hints dropped to SE that they need to start listening to the players if they ever want to improve the standing of their game and slowly they did. The 2hander update in XI was released many years after XIs launch, and finally balanced the classes. Parties no longer wanted Drks Dual wielding axes which was their B~ish weapon. Level sync kind of killed the sitting in town for 5 hours w/ ur flag up scenario that plagued every DD. Soloing only recently became a viable option for most classes w/ the introduction of doing pages out in the field for exp + Gil. These things were huge fixes to the game but came late in XIs life span. I can understand that this was the 1st time SE made an MMO and i forgave them for taking their sweet time with it.

But now 14 is here, and i see no real improvement quality wise over the launch of XI. Its buggy, laggy, and there are o so many problems. My central issue w/ SE is a big fat Why? Why would u release the game so incomplete and dissapoint sooo many fans? Would it have killed them to wait a few more months?

Allow me to comment on a few things you said.

" Little tweaks and tuning like that can make an enormous difference to the game's playability...and SE is working on it"

This line bugged me because 1. These little tweaks should have been done in beta. Thats whats beta is for. 2. the game has a retail price of 50bucks for standard edition. They expect us to not only play the game but pay for it. the extra 30 days was a step in the right direction but its also been seen by many as a big cop out. Well, we'll extend their free play so they wont leave yet while we hammer out bug fixes and patches. Thats unacceptable.
the tweaks and fine tuning do make a big difference, but only because things are going from utter ****, to just regular old ****.
Example, the market wards got organized. Yes it was a massive improvement. But it only improved something absolutely abysmal to still annoying, unfriendly and just stupid. The 1 click open bazaar in the wards also made me happy. But there was no reason i should have had to select a bazaar, open my menu, click browse (god forbid u have a synthesis job equipped and accidentally hit that 1st!) wait for the menu, oh look nothing i need, close, rinse repeat for a few hours if ur that boring.

They announced a Future patch to add searching, Huzzah things are movin up. But wait, isnt something as basic as a Search function present in almost every other mmo ever? Sure XI didnt have 1 either but that was their test run, ppl hated not having an AH and they fixed it. Why make the same mistake again and only replace it w/ something still less friendly?

"Sometimes you just have to take a step back and look at the big picture. "

true, this is always good advice. However i'm either blindfolded by pure outrage or the game is just kind of ****** atm. Theres plans and a lot of potential here yes, but the servers are live and i did pay 50bucks for the game. yes the seeds of a great game are here, but I've got better things to do w/ my time than to watch it get fertillized and grow into something worth my time.
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#89 Oct 28 2010 at 9:26 PM Rating: Default
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Toukai wrote:
@ Aurelius

And i agree, yes to mostly all of your response to my post. However i'm not sure i conveyed my meaning as well as i meant to. When i say SE never listens to us, i don't just mean w/ the month or so XIV has been out and however long the beta was around for, i mean EVER.


I'm just going to stop you right there and say I don't care what happened in XI. I played XI too, and it was different people responsible for XI than XIV. Tanaka is still involved in XIV but Komoto is the director and it's Komoto that has been doing the communicating with us. If you feel the need to carry over your resentment of Tanaka and how Tanaka ran XI into XIV and allow that to skew your perception and ruin your experience, then you go right ahead and do that but as far as I'm concerned, what happened in XI stays in XI unless and until I see it happening specifically with XIV. In terms of XIV, the issue of the devs "not listening" hasn't bee present, and I'm getting tired of explainging to people that just because the issues YOU wanted to see fixed weren't fixed according to YOUR timetable doesn't mean the devs weren't working their asses off with other things.

And until people can demonstrate that they fully understand and accept that concept, I'm not really interested in their side of things because it's based on a partially or fully flawed perception of what's going on.
#90 Oct 28 2010 at 9:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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To simply forgive (or at least ignore) a companies major f*ck ups because 1 man isn't working on the said game isn't a terribly strong argument. I'm talking about Square Enix as a company. And a company isn't a 1 man show.

If your going to stick your companies logo onto something you better be sure its up to par. Even if Tanaka was at fault for everything that was wrong/is wrong w/ XI then Komoto should have learned a lesson from his colleagues mistakes. A company cannot grow if it doesn't learn from a mistake, neither can we. I believe my points are still valid because i'm referring to the company itself, and a company is judged by the some of its parts.

Even if no one from the XI team had anything to do w/ the XIV team, i think they should have at least played the predecessor. The Xiv team decided to make character models reminiscent of XI so that, and I quote from a Q&A Session

"The game will be taking place in an entirely new world, but the game’s setting and characters look similar to XI’s. To help players feel more at ease in the FFXIV universe, we specifically chose to model the new characters after the old ones. We will of course be drawing on bits and pieces of FFXI and the lessons learned to guide us, but our greatest resource is the fans. With XI, our original idea was an emphasis on partying. With FFXIV, we’re working to support both solo play and an engaging party system."

I made that part bold for ya.
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#91 Oct 28 2010 at 10:14 PM Rating: Good
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Toukai wrote:
[...]

"The game will be taking place in an entirely new world, but the game’s setting and characters look similar to XI’s. To help players feel more at ease in the FFXIV universe, we specifically chose to model the new characters after the old ones. We will of course be drawing on bits and pieces of FFXI and the lessons learned to guide us, but our greatest resource is the fans. With XI, our original idea was an emphasis on partying. With FFXIV, we’re working to support both solo play and an engaging party system."

I made that part bold for ya.


Just a comment -- It feels like the bold is being taken out of context, which is already compounded by the problem of being translated from a different language. He's not saying they're drawing on all lessons learned from FFXI--he's saying they're drawing on the lessons learned from bits and pieces of FFXI. That can be anything from 1% to 100%, not 100%. In other words it smells like weasel wording.
#92 Oct 28 2010 at 10:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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Of course their not using 100% of what they learned, thats Blatantly obvious from the game. But saying they use 1% isn't logical either. even if they used 25% of what they learned from the last 7 years the game would be a lot better for it.

I don't see any steps forward from XI, primarily everything is a step backwards (as stated in my previous posts). My point i was making was that XIV was the next step in SE MMO line, and that XI was their 1st test subject. which became quite successful after a few years of updates, patches and lots of content. They found some winning formulas here, started w/ a lot of bad and then sifted most of it out with time. Again as a COMPANY, i expect SE to have learned from their previous endeavors (even if the team who worked on XIV aren't the same people who work on XI) And grow as a company and move forward~ not backwards. If you think 14s UI is a step forward from XI (or any game for that matter) you need to get punched in the stomach or somethin.

So far the only successful thing i've seen from XI are the character designs. However 1 can think of it as Homage and use the same reason SE does. To give the familiarity of XI to former players. Or you can think of it as they were too lazy to develop new character designs, and just made HD version of the former. Ok, and the journal is 100x more informative than XI's quest description. In which u needed the wiki to tell ya what to do next 1/2 the time.
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#93 Oct 28 2010 at 11:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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Toukai wrote:
Of course their not using 100% of what they learned, thats Blatantly obvious from the game. But saying they use 1% isn't logical either. even if they used 25% of what they learned from the last 7 years the game would be a lot better for it.

I don't see any steps forward from XI, primarily everything is a step backwards (as stated in my previous posts). My point i was making was that XIV was the next step in SE MMO line, and that XI was their 1st test subject. which became quite successful after a few years of updates, patches and lots of content. They found some winning formulas here, started w/ a lot of bad and then sifted most of it out with time. Again as a COMPANY, i expect SE to have learned from their previous endeavors (even if the team who worked on XIV aren't the same people who work on XI) And grow as a company and move forward~ not backwards. If you think 14s UI is a step forward from XI (or any game for that matter) you need to get punched in the stomach or somethin.

So far the only successful thing i've seen from XI are the character designs. However 1 can think of it as Homage and use the same reason SE does. To give the familiarity of XI to former players. Or you can think of it as they were too lazy to develop new character designs, and just made HD version of the former. Ok, and the journal is 100x more informative than XI's quest description. In which u needed the wiki to tell ya what to do next 1/2 the time.


Sorry. I guess that was unclear. Let me try again.

The only thing acknowledged as something they have learned from XI is that they need to make the game able to support solo play and partying. The phrase being quoted and bolded sounds nice but really doesn't support anything other than that they may use customer feedback. So I don't see how it is helping your message.



Edited, Oct 29th 2010 1:16am by Ravashack
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