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Crafting Stat TheoryFollow

#1 Oct 27 2010 at 8:53 PM Rating: Default
29 posts
I have a theory, that is starting to take shape as I gain more experience crafting, that each DoH class has TWO MAJOR stats that effect their craft and that those two stats affect the Primary weapon and Offhand.

For example -
Alchemists using Alembic: Relies on INT for success bonus.
Alchemists using Mortar: Relies on STR for success bonus.

Both INT and STR show up repeatedly on equipment suggested for ALC and at higher levels there are(were) skills that increase your INT or your STR respectively. It seems pretty logical that STR would help you Mill something.

I haven't tested this theory yet in numbers, but my observations of gear and skills seem to point to this.

Any thoughts?

#2 Oct 28 2010 at 11:28 AM Rating: Default
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518 posts
Hypotheses: Stats affect crafting

Theory: INT affects ALCH main hand synthesis outcome

Dependant Variable: Synthesis outcome (HQ, success rate, ???)

Independent Variable: Stats

additional variables: Control, craftsmanship, rank vs synth level, element of orb vs elemental stat, weapon level vs synth rank.

Testing: Do 100 synths @ rank 1 with a level 1 synth (you'll need help here) and record your results. Go naked to make sure no other variable is affecting your results.

Record your data: Now you have a base line....

Repeat process above this time increasing stats. You are looking for a relationship between more (int,str,dex,ect..) and a more desirable outcome. So you'll have to do a lot of synthing.

Once you have complied all the data, check to see if your hypothesis of stats affect crafting outcome is even true. If it is, congratulations now you have another experiment on your hands, you have to determine what exactly is the affect +x(stat)=+x(% or# increase in outcome of synth)

GL
#3 Oct 28 2010 at 11:34 AM Rating: Good
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291 posts
We really need someone to get some Design of Experiments software running like JMP. It'd be freaking great for this stuff. I wish my student license hadn't expired when I left school...
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#4 Oct 28 2010 at 11:44 AM Rating: Decent
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518 posts
get me data i have access to SPS for at least another 6 months
#5 Oct 28 2010 at 4:15 PM Rating: Default
XaviehrGrey wrote:
I have a theory, that is starting to take shape as I gain more experience crafting, that each DoH class has TWO MAJOR stats that effect their craft and that those two stats affect the Primary weapon and Offhand.

For example -
Alchemists using Alembic: Relies on INT for success bonus.
Alchemists using Mortar: Relies on STR for success bonus.

Both INT and STR show up repeatedly on equipment suggested for ALC and at higher levels there are(were) skills that increase your INT or your STR respectively. It seems pretty logical that STR would help you Mill something.

I haven't tested this theory yet in numbers, but my observations of gear and skills seem to point to this.

Any thoughts?



To save myself time I will just quote myself, since i already replied to this same comment on a completely seperate thread.

Here's a link to the OTHER thread he posted this on:

CLICK HERE!


StateAlchemist2 wrote:
XaviehrGrey wrote:
This is further proved by the two Alchemist skills you get at higher levels that raise your INT and STR respectively.


And which ability does an Alchemist get that says Strength anywhere in it's description?

Preserve? No.
Creative Urge? No.
Forgekin Eluder? No.
Innovation? No.
Mass Production? No.
Extrapolation? No.
Aspect Balance? No.
Hand of the Gods? No.

Not sure what you were looking at, but last time I checked, there is no reference to any stat effecting Alchemist anywhere, other than Intelligence.

I am sorry, but the only thing you proved here was that you have no idea what you are talking about. Please refrain from posting information unless you have solid evidence or at least a reference to where your information was obtained.

Thanks.


While speculation is nice, it is a waste of space without at least SOME kind of credible evidence that supports your theory. Any instance of STR on gear that favors either DoH or ALC is most likey on there because it ALSO favors other classes. Just because an item gives INT and STR on the same equipment doesn't mean that one of the several classes that it favors is going to be effected by STR.

If your determined to believe this, go parse some data and give us something to look at.

Edited, Oct 28th 2010 6:19pm by StateAlchemist2
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#6 Oct 28 2010 at 7:24 PM Rating: Decent
29 posts
I am currently working on getting some numbers together. This thread was by no means me saying THIS IS HOW IT IS. It is something I have noticed and wanted to get others opinions of whether or not they have seen anything similar.
Seems what I got instead was some *** Hat flaming me on the assumption that I was spreading this as truth.

I'll go ahead and ignore the negativity and address a couple of things that were said:

Yes I posted this twice, though the posts aren't exactly identical. I edited the General Forum post a little bit. I posted the idea in the Alchemist forum, but then noticed that may of those threads hadn't been used since September, so to try and reach a broader base I moved the base idea to a new thread on the general forum. Sorry if that offended anyone.

Secondly
I read about the Strength Increasing skill that Alchemists receive in one of the data mines done on the game, but am having trouble locating it. This has been mentioned on a few of the pod casts covering the data mining in the last couple of weeks. As soon as I find the forum and thread I read it in a few weeks back I will edit and link it.

I guess lastly I would like to ask a couple of questions:
Why would a piece of equipment that has nothing but a + to STR, no matter who else it is recommended for, be recommended for an ALC? I would think that the recommendation would mean that it is made for that class. If this wasn't the case, why don't we see any + STR gear recommended for Cullinarians? Or + STR for Fishers (that don't include a + to Gathering as well)

At this point no one knows the ins and outs of the game and we should figure this game out the same as we figured out FFXI, through discussion, trial and error. I thought that a forum was, by definition, a meeting place for a discussion of questions of public interest. If that is not the case here at ZAM and people would rather flame an honest inquiry just let me know and I'll find another community.

If there are some here who see any validity to my observations or have a theory backed by their own experience that says that my observations are wrong I would love to hear about them :)

Thanks
#7 Oct 29 2010 at 9:09 AM Rating: Decent
XaviehrGrey wrote:
Seems what I got instead was some *** Hat flaming me on the assumption that I was spreading this as truth.


First of all the only person flaming here is you. I was quite polite in my post. And most of the people who actually read the forums don't like wasting their time reading unfounded speculation.

XaviehrGrey wrote:
Yes I posted this twice, though the posts aren't exactly identical. I edited the General Forum post a little bit. I posted the idea in the Alchemist forum, but then noticed that may of those threads hadn't been used since September, so to try and reach a broader base I moved the base idea to a new thread on the general forum. Sorry if that offended anyone.


Fair enough.

XaviehrGrey wrote:
I read about the Strength Increasing skill that Alchemists receive in one of the data mines done on the game, but am having trouble locating it. This has been mentioned on a few of the pod casts covering the data mining in the last couple of weeks. As soon as I find the forum and thread I read it in a few weeks back I will edit and link it.


I read about how Refresh dropped off of Taisai, in FFXI. Doesn't mean I believed it. All jokes aside... if you speculation IS based off of some kind of credible source, then in the future try to have your references upfront before posting your theories, to alliviate confusion or disapproval.

XaviehrGrey wrote:
Why would a piece of equipment that has nothing but a + to STR, no matter who else it is recommended for, be recommended for an ALC? I would think that the recommendation would mean that it is made for that class. If this wasn't the case, why don't we see any + STR gear recommended for Cullinarians? Or + STR for Fishers (that don't include a + to Gathering as well)


I don't know if you have ever done a crafting levequest, but a lot of them require you run out to Camps that are dangerous to get to because of aggro. If you took the time to look at available equipment to crafting classes, every class has favorable crafting gear (Control+, Craftmanship+, Mag. Craftmanship+...) in addition each crafting class, as well as DoL classes, have access to some type of Armor that favors them. If you didn't know, armor that favors your class will give you the full benefit of stats. Since and Alchemist can only throw pebbles for negilible daamage and/or possibly Stun a monster, having some Armor to increase you Defense is very useful, especially when you have to run right past a monster that will undoubtedly kill you in 1-2 hits if your naked or wearing weak crafting gear. The STR+ in this case is just a coincidence.

To be fair however lets examine this assuming you are CORRECT however. As a crafter, lets say Alchemist to keep it on track. Which piece of gear do you think i will choose for crafting:
Mercenary's Chainmail, for the STR +4?
or
Velveteen Gown for the Craftmanship +17, and Mag. Craftmanship +7?

I realize the Gown is 2 ranks higher than the M.Chainmail, but even if STR does effect Off-hand synthesis, there is no way it will help more than wearing crafting gear.

However, is it believable that SE gave crafting classes a favorable armor to wear so they can be better protected while running all over the world? Especially, since they designed crafting classes to be a Main Job? Yes.

I personally have no DoW, or DoM class leveled, however i still have to run around r30 camps with aggro, and such. So will I use gear like that to protect myself? Definitely. Would I be caught dead wearing it while crafting? **** no.

XaviehrGrey wrote:
At this point no one knows the ins and outs of the game and we should figure this game out the same as we figured out FFXI, through discussion, trial and error. I thought that a forum was, by definition, a meeting place for a discussion of questions of public interest. If that is not the case here at ZAM and people would rather flame an honest inquiry just let me know and I'll find another community.


A Forum is an online discussion site where people can hold conversations in the form of posted messages. So yes, your more than welcome to post your ideas, thoughts, and opinions, any time you see fit. It is, however, a lot better when your idea isn't just an idea, and you actually have some references, or in this case, more than just the fact that there happens to be a useless stat on an item favoring a class. (If you played FFXI, you would know just how often SE puts useless stats on gear. ****, look at SAMs AF gear, there's a great example.)

Secondly, Flaming is a hostile and insulting interaction between Internet users. I was not hostile towards you, I just stated that you have no idea what your talking about, and showed you why I believe that to be the case. I don't tolerate flaming, and I do not appreciate, someone referring to my posting as flaming.

Finally, if you had asked in your post:
"I heard about an ability Alchemist gets at a higher rank that increases STR from a Podcast on datamining (Link goes here). I also noticed that there are a few pieces of equipment that increase STR that favor ALC (List equipment here). This leads me to beilieve that STR may effect Alchemy in some way. What do you think?"

This would make me more inclined to not only examine your references myself, but solidly give a good reason for me to take my time checking up on this, rather than explaining to you how it is frowned upon to make random statements, and then say, oh i heard it on this one podcast...or i read it on this one website, but i cant remember where, so ill just get back in a few weeks...

This tells me right away that it's not even credible. There is nothing on the interent that should take WEEKS to find, just so you can site a reference.

Furthermore, no one is trying to push you away from ZAM. From what I have seen, a lot of others websites' databases are in dissarray (more so than ZAM). Just try to write a better post next time.

XaviehrGrey wrote:
If there are some here who see any validity to my observations or have a theory backed by their own experience that says that my observations are wrong I would love to hear about them :)


Done, and done.

Let me quote one of your original lines:

XaviehrGrey wrote:
I haven't tested this theory yet in numbers, but my observations of gear and skills seem to point to this.


Your skill information is currently wrong. (Check any FFXIV site if you don't believe me.)
Instances of Stats on Gear that Favors MULTIPLE classes (including DoW/M) are circumstancial at best, and any access to them by DoH/L classes are more likely to be a result of my information given above.

If you still believe your thoery to be true, then do what you said you hadn't done yet, and go test this out yourself. Parse the data, and post us some solid numbers, please.

I look forward to seeing some actual data, since on the slim chance you happen to be correct, it may help me out, eventually.
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#8 Nov 06 2010 at 1:56 PM Rating: Default
29 posts
Just wanted to stop back by and say I told you so...

Looks like SE has confirmed that Main hand and Off hand Crafting tools are affected by different stats.

I was off on my prediction for ALC offhand's affecting stat, BUT my observation of gear stats called it.

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/topics/detail?id=92e2a2ee13f174b5a6f5f658135e1bf4ab725f29
#9 Nov 06 2010 at 2:30 PM Rating: Good
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203 posts
XaviehrGrey wrote:
Just wanted to stop back by and say I told you so...

Looks like SE has confirmed that Main hand and Off hand Crafting tools are affected by different stats.

I was off on my prediction for ALC offhand's affecting stat, BUT my observation of gear stats called it.

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/topics/detail?id=92e2a2ee13f174b5a6f5f658135e1bf4ab725f29


Congratulations, you threw **** at the wall and something stuck.

Your observation of gear stats called *nothing*. You said that alchemist has STR+ on gear, and therefore must use strength somewhere.
Of course, if you start filtering gear based on bonus stats, alchemists can find gear that favors them and gives a bonus to any stat, not just STR or INT (or PIE, which is their actual secondary stat).

You gave no basis or evidence for your mainhand/offhand theory, you just happened to get lucky, so congratulations.
#10 Nov 07 2010 at 11:15 AM Rating: Decent
29 posts
Ilmoran wrote:
XaviehrGrey wrote:
Just wanted to stop back by and say I told you so...

Looks like SE has confirmed that Main hand and Off hand Crafting tools are affected by different stats.

I was off on my prediction for ALC offhand's affecting stat, BUT my observation of gear stats called it.

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/topics/detail?id=92e2a2ee13f174b5a6f5f658135e1bf4ab725f29


Congratulations, you threw sh*t at the wall and something stuck.

Your observation of gear stats called *nothing*. You said that alchemist has STR+ on gear, and therefore must use strength somewhere.
Of course, if you start filtering gear based on bonus stats, alchemists can find gear that favors them and gives a bonus to any stat, not just STR or INT (or PIE, which is their actual secondary stat).

You gave no basis or evidence for your mainhand/offhand theory, you just happened to get lucky, so congratulations.


I already said that I was wrong about my "STR helping Alchemists" assumption, but that was just one hypothesis that I was using to support my theory and that alone doesn't mean I had no basis for my idea. As I stated in my reply I was looking for people to discuss the idea with me to see if anyone else had any observations that supported the theory. No one gave any supporting or opposing opinions about the idea, other than the classic "Screenshot or it didn't happen" mentality.

Well it takes time to compile that sort of information and guess what! I have some pretty hefty info that I will be glad to use for my future crafting plans. Looks like I don't have to give up what I found though, because SE confirmed my initial hypothesis: "...each DoH class has TWO MAJOR stats that effect their craft and that those two stats affect the Primary weapon and Offhand." So you can point at my FIRST attempt at guessing an offhand stat and say LOOK YOU WERE WRONG all you want. I'm perfectly happy that I called it.

On a side note - Still looking for that +STR culinarian gear lol
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