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Fatigue: Completely Useless?Follow

#1 Oct 28 2010 at 1:07 AM Rating: Decent
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For the past two weeks or so, I have been partying like mad. I have hit at least 30-40% fatigue, and honestly, I haven't felt a thing.

I think, the way fatigue works currently, is it does not take any SP away from you / skillup. Instead, it takes away from your max.

For example, you can gain a maximum of 500 SP per fight, with fatigue at 0%. With fatigue at 10%, you can gain a maximum of 450 / fight. This does not encompass crafting fatigue, nor does it encompass physical level fatigue (Which goes hand in hand with crafting fatigue).

Now, I don't know about you guys, but when partying, I usually make ~200-300SP / fight. Rarely I get more, rarely I get less, but this is around the average. This means that until I hit ~40% fatigue, I won't even feel it. I won't even know it existed.


To see how many %s of fatigue I had, whenever it said "Your conjury bonus rank increases", I just added 10%, not starting from when it turned yellow, but starting from the first bonus increase. Also, there have been times where I have been at 10%, and then I crafted the **** out of an afternoon, and I was still at surplus the next day. Perhaps you can be at 0% surplus?

Surplus is really a nonissue to me. I really doubt people concerned about surplus are going to party grind for the lengths I grind at anyways.


Edited, Oct 28th 2010 3:07am by Meowshi
#2 Oct 28 2010 at 1:09 AM Rating: Decent
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On the other hand, there is noticeably more grind.

This is this the downside of fatigue not mattering during gameplay. If SE can't cut our progress through this way, they did it the normal way.

We'll see what happens once they adjust the skill up mechanics though.
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#3 Oct 28 2010 at 1:46 AM Rating: Good
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You're sure fatigue doesn't do anything? If it is people would have hit r50 DoW/DoM 2 weeks ago. It is more noticeable with crafting/physical because those are more stable than fighting SP honestly.
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#4 Oct 28 2010 at 1:53 AM Rating: Decent
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Khornette wrote:
You're sure fatigue doesn't do anything? If it is people would have hit r50 DoW/DoM 2 weeks ago. It is more noticeable with crafting/physical because those are more stable than fighting SP honestly.


Well, it does things, but:

The way fighting works is, you party with 14 other people and kill monsters every minute, getting ~200SP each monster (For DoW, DoM gets slightly higher or lower depending on how many healers are in the party). For a DoW class, you usually average 10k-12k/hour. To get surplus to affect you at 200SP/monster, you're looking at 60% surplus, something that you will get after a literal sh*t ton (I'm talking ~8 hours/day for 7 days) of grinding, and even then you can get 10k/hour (Which is pretty **** good).

I really don't see surplus affecting me. You very rarely ever get 500SP/mob, maybe one an hour, at the most, because your buddy healer went afk, or the mob is overly generous.

And you just started seeing R50 crafters this week, didn't you? http://www.ffxivpro.com/achievements says that there are zero crafters (Alice got his Goldworking to 50 today), and there are only a handfull of R50 battlecrafts.


Oh, and one other thing about Surplus. I don't think it scales with your rank. I think it's something like, "You will hit surplus rank 1 after getting 100,000SP, regardless of rank. Then, you will hit surplus rank 2 after getting an additional 30,000SP". The numbers may be off, but my high level friend says that he hits surplus after gaining one-two ranks, instead of the 1-->19 trek people were stating when release happened

Edited, Oct 28th 2010 3:55am by Meowshi
#5 Oct 28 2010 at 7:15 AM Rating: Decent
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We were talking about this in the /ls yesterday and they were coming to the same conclusion. I've only hit fatigue once on my Marauder and I hardly noticed it. Others haven't noticed an impact either.

Maybe the really hardcore notice it, playing 8+ hours a day doing the same actions over and over agian.
#6 Oct 28 2010 at 7:21 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
You're sure fatigue doesn't do anything? If it is people would have hit r50 DoW/DoM 2 weeks ago. It is more noticeable with crafting/physical because those are more stable than fighting SP honestly.


No, they hit Rank 50 at the start of this week.
#7 Oct 28 2010 at 7:53 AM Rating: Good
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Fatigue is completely useless in that the people it actually affects are the hardcore players who just plow through the fatigue barrier.

The game is so grindy already that any additional SP penalty would be crippling to the casual / core players. That being said, fatigue is a non-issue for us because we just don't log enough playtime to hit the fatigue wall (or even come close to it).

For the hardcore players that do get hit with the fatigue penalty, they just have to put in more time to earn the same SP. Instead of grinding SP for 7-8 hours per day, they have to grind for 9-10 hours per day in order to earn the same amount of SP. (And if the mechanics work as Meowshi suggests, this isn't even necessarily true...)

The reason the fatigue system is useless is that the penalty is only your time: if you get fatigued, you need to put more time in to achieve the same SP result. For a hardcore player that is logging 8 hours / day, is it really that big of a penalty to make them play for 10 hours / day to achieve the same result? No offense to the hardcore, but if your RL allows you to play for 8 hours / day, you can probably find another couple hours in your schedule for some more XIV to trudge through that fatigue barrier ^^

It begs the question of what SE's purpose was behind the fatigue system in general. Is it to deter people from marathon gaming sessions? Are they trying to encourage people to have lives outside of XIV? Is it to encourage people to explore other facets of the game? Is the fatigue system supposed to work like a bell curve to keep people on a certain leveling trajectory?

No matter what their motivations were, I don't think it's working as intended. The fatigue penalty just isn't harsh enough to elicit any meaningful response some the playerbase that it affects. It's like using sandbags to stop a Tsunami.

I just hope that SE's solution to people reaching cap too quickly isn't to slow SP gains for everyone.
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#8 Oct 28 2010 at 8:19 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
It begs the question of what SE's purpose was behind the fatigue system in general.


That is obvious isn't it? To cut the grind without facing a situation where people are making progress much faster than is desired.

Now fatigue is pretty much meaningless, and surprise surprise:

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The game is so grindy


Now SE has made few mistakes here. A) They didn't tell us about the system in detail soon enough, and we are too dumb to think with our own brains to understand the concept and the consequences ourselves, so we ********

B) SE actually listened to the ******** and changed the system to the more widely accepted one, your normal grind. Had they stayed strong to their ideals there would be much less to grind for just as much progress and fatigue would hinder hardcore the way it should. Now it just hinders casuals instead, obviously.
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#9 Oct 28 2010 at 8:46 AM Rating: Decent
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I hit fatigue weekly on my crafting jobs, once i hit fatigue I stop and usually have to wait 24 hours to begin plowing through again.

But that's me, I refuse to craft in fatigue becuase crafting is expensive and I don't like to waste gil. However, some of those players who are high level crafters are just blowing through their fatigue. They continue to craft no matter what. Now i see some of them have subs leveled so it may just be craft till you hit 16th tier, do something else, make gil, for a few days come back and repeat the cycle.

fatigue only matters if you think it matters. If you have no problem having to more to get less than fatigue will not affect you in the slightest. I think what SE wanted fatigue to do was make the game progress more lateral than vertical. We'd hit fatigue on job than move to the next, so and so on. Preventing us from having rank 50 jobs within the first 6 months.

The thing i don't get is why someone would need/want a rank 50 job. There is no equipment to support that level, there is no content to support that level, there are tons of "abilities" they are not using to push that high. I mean there are days when ya i craft for like 8 hours, but i'm only rank 26 ARM but i've got x2 rank 20 DoW jobs...up to the player i guess.
#10 Oct 28 2010 at 8:51 AM Rating: Decent
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what the **** are you all talking about... whats that fatigue thing. stupid question maybe but i never saw that.
#11 Oct 28 2010 at 9:05 AM Rating: Decent
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The thing i don't get is why someone would need/want a rank 50 job. There is no equipment to support that level, there is no content to support that level,


Anything Calvery [insert armor slot here] lvl 48 gear can be bought on Selbina. There is a rank 10 GLA who sports the whole [lvl48] set.
#12 Oct 28 2010 at 9:08 AM Rating: Default
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what the **** are you all talking about... whats that fatigue thing. stupid question maybe but i never saw that.


This video explains it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abE09-tqhoM

Basically, if you play too much FFXIV (as defined by SE), you start to see a diminishing return on your SP gains. If you play a normal / healthy amount of FFXIV (again as defined by SE), it's completely a non-issue for you and you never have to worry about it.

I'm pretty sure it was implemented as an anti-addiction system to comply with communist laws in China.
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#13 Oct 28 2010 at 9:23 AM Rating: Good
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The only fatigue that is any of a hinderance is the daily hinderance on gatherers. After a couple hours in a calandar day (JP time it appears) I start damaging everything, and thus get SP reduced by 50%, no xp, and no items, so basically it is time to stop for the day.

I have yet to even see phy. fatigue, and only hit sp fatigue near the end of the week, which only seems to reduce my sp gain by about 10% (since gatherers get pretty steady numbers, you can see the change).

Basically yet another thing about the game, that isnt really even an isue, that people threw up there arms and complained about at teh beginning.
#14 Oct 28 2010 at 9:36 AM Rating: Decent
Basically, for people with lives, and stuff to do with their lives, there is no fatigue system. I had vacation from Sept. 22 - Oct. 1 and wasted 16 hours a day playing this game. I hit tier 6 in physical, tier 4 in fishing, and I think I barely touched it in alchemy. Sixteen hours a day! This fatigue system is for people who truly have ABSOLUTELY nothing else to do with their lives but play FFXIV.

-- Edit --

It might prove slightly helpful in cases of RMT working in shifts to level a character 24 hours a day.

Edited, Oct 28th 2010 11:37am by mattkujata
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#15 Oct 28 2010 at 1:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Yea, I think this fatigue isn't an all deciding factor to how fast you can skill up. Yesterday, I was surprised to see a whole party of 15 people around R45 with all the 40s weapons and gear. I thought the fatigue system would of hindered that kind of fast paced leveling, but I guess not. I'm not complaining or anything but it was kinda cool to see the higher level party dynamics in full swing. They were all at Camp Bluefog slaying everything around that area.

I just think that you'd have had to put in A LOT of hours into this game to already be at that level and to have all the high rank gear. Considering the game is just over a month old. These people will soon be screaming for more content once they hit level cap. Hopefully, SE has some to add some.

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#16 Oct 28 2010 at 1:28 PM Rating: Decent
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DonFlamenco wrote:
It begs the question of what SE's purpose was behind the fatigue system in general. Is it to deter people from marathon gaming sessions? Are they trying to encourage people to have lives outside of XIV? Is it to encourage people to explore other facets of the game? Is the fatigue system supposed to work like a bell curve to keep people on a certain leveling trajectory?


You can add: Was it about money, i.e. continue paying the monthly subscription?
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#17 Oct 28 2010 at 2:14 PM Rating: Decent
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Without the Fatigue system, ppl will reach rank50 within a week. Consider those with CE version starts at Sep.22, its been more than a month.
#18 Oct 28 2010 at 3:01 PM Rating: Decent
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I think most of you guys are talking about surplus (when you start getting reduced SP). From what I've seen, fatigue only applies to DoL classes. You'll noticed this after about 2-3 hours of gathering and you'll begin to break almost everything you gather. You only get half SP when you break an item and NO xp.

It really sucks when you have surplus AND fatigue, because you get 80-90% of 50% of the normal SP.
#19 Oct 28 2010 at 4:19 PM Rating: Default
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your gonna ruin it now >.>

now SE will see this and make fatigue even more powerful @_@
#20 Oct 28 2010 at 4:57 PM Rating: Good
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Sigmakan wrote:
I think most of you guys are talking about surplus (when you start getting reduced SP). From what I've seen, fatigue only applies to DoL classes. You'll noticed this after about 2-3 hours of gathering and you'll begin to break almost everything you gather. You only get half SP when you break an item and NO xp.

It really sucks when you have surplus AND fatigue, because you get 80-90% of 50% of the normal SP.


Yeah but its possible to get down to 0 SP so that's no longer surplus. It switches to fatigue at some point. So there's two types of fatigue - one that affects point gain and another that affects items gained from DoL.
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#21 Nov 03 2010 at 9:58 PM Rating: Decent
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I would like to know what is the refreshing day to remove all the fatigue you have. Is it Sunday midnight?
#22 Nov 03 2010 at 11:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Shaduf wrote:
I would like to know what is the refreshing day to remove all the fatigue you have. Is it Sunday midnight?


It is completely dependant on the first time you get SP since it refreshes.

For me, my Conjury and normal Experience Points reset on Wednesday. However, I never touched lancer until Thursday. My Lancer resets on Thursday.

Completely you dependant. On Thursday, my lancer will be in surplus until I get 1 point of SP. Then it will completely reset and start a new 7 day cycle.

Because of this, if I wait until Friday to kill something with my lancer, then my surplus for lancer will reset on Friday instead of thursday.
#23 Nov 04 2010 at 6:01 PM Rating: Good
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Meowshi the same problem has been reported by various other high rankers on the Core forums too.

Fatigue/surplus currently caps the maximum SP gains on Disciples of War. However it doesn't work the same for Disciples of the Land. Like someone posted here earlier it is probably at its worst with the gathering line as a miner/botanist/fisher begin to damage or lose their harvest in a single hit once they reach the SP threshold.

As for crafters, the rank 50 armorer (Aurica Valentia) reported significant SP reduction on successful crafts, citing 150 gains on something that should offer 200-250? (not 100% sure).

It sure as **** is nothing like what the video explaining fatigue is which may have been what the higher ups had intended but implementation went fuzzy and this is the end result. If that video is anything to go by, the gathering line is the only line where they have a working fatigue system that completely halts progress if the player tries too hard to go beyond it (and it only takes around 4 hours?).



Edited, Nov 4th 2010 8:02pm by mygosity
#24 Nov 05 2010 at 9:06 AM Rating: Decent
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I don't think it's true that it only effects your max. I think that's just the only time you can visibly tell just how much it's effecting you. In the betas it told you exactly how much you lost in "surplus" SP, and in retail it just seems they took the number out and made it just say "You're received bonus skill points" or whatever. I think regardless if you're maxed or not, you will lose x% on each fight.
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