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If aren't @ or above optimal rank, don't wear itFollow

#1 Oct 29 2010 at 7:10 AM Rating: Decent
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Wearing gear for which you have not yet reached the optimal rank causes your gear to degrade faster and only gives you a fraction of stats and attribute bonuses listed for that particular piece of equipment. While no one's figured out the precise scaling mechanics, it's pretty well established that wearing gear optimized for a few ranks below your current rank is > wearing gear optimized for several ranks above your current rank.

I assume that everyone who reads here @ ZAM knows this by now, but please take the time to explain this to the a$$holes that come to camp in gear that they are 22 rank levels too low for. Last night I partied with a level 16 GLA wearing armor with an optimal rank of 38.

If you wanna solo like that, more power to you, and I'm not here to tell you how to play your game. But please extend your party members the courtesy of wearing gear that's remotely appropriate for your current level. Believe it or not, looking cool doesn't help us XP/SP more efficiently.

Thanks!
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#2 Oct 29 2010 at 7:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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I posted this in a similar thread on the Gladiator forums:

Part of the blame has to fall on SE. If you look at some of the recipes, you will realize why everyone is using bronze haubs/macuahuitls. They are both easily produced, while more level appropriate things require stuff like wing glue, dyed buffalo leather, and other materials from other crafts in short supply, and in some instances, such as the scale mail armor, require high sub-crafts to easily produce. Very few armorers, including myself, make things like bronze chainmail and sentinel chainmail because getting the tabards can be hard. This all compounded with the disarray the wards were in for the first month of release.

Another issue is repair cost. Yes, I am one of those gladiators running around with a bronze scutum at level 21, but have you recognized the disparity between the repair costs of the bronze hoplon/bronze pelta (both bronze plates) vs the scutm (2x bronze squares)? Yes, there are other shields with cheap repair costs to fill in the gaps, but they require materials from high level crafts which inflates the base cost of the end-product (looking at you Bronze Buckler requiring 1x Iron Plate to create), which just makes it more cost-effective to just buy a higher level item.

Lastly, I'm sure a lot of it is aesthetics as well. I hate using daggers, but from level 9 to level 30+, that is all I will be using because making "real swords" is costly, and it is hard even to just find them because they all use horn/wing glue. Horn glue is cheap now, but I am past the rank to effectively use those weapons. Months from now, things may change because there will be a lot of 50 crafters to churn out raw mats, but right now people are making do with what they can afford and/or find.
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#3 Oct 29 2010 at 7:13 AM Rating: Default
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dear op
please tell this to the player in person dont cry abt it anonymously here on the zam forums

chances are said player doesnt read forums so this thread is a waste

Edited, Oct 29th 2010 8:14am by Galkaholics
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#5 Oct 29 2010 at 7:36 AM Rating: Excellent
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Classy.... There's always a decent way to respond to a flame, if at all, than taking the vulgarity up a notch :(

Anyhow, on topic of wrong-ranked gear; My experience is that people just don't care. I've tested a few pieces of armour, optimal rank, below and above it. The highest piece over my rank was a whole 10 ranks above (!). Weird enough, for soloing, it didn't cripple me (noticeably enough). I could still do whatever I did with optimal rank gear. Maybe that's how people reason when applying for a party? I do prefer to have optimal rank gear on me, or at least 80% of the pieces to be optimal and the rest 20% below/above is solely there because I'm too aware of how my character looks (stupid, I know -_-). But if people in parties die too often or have to spam heal cause of inappropriate gear, it can be really frustrating for sure!
#7 Oct 29 2010 at 7:46 AM Rating: Good
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#8 Oct 29 2010 at 7:47 AM Rating: Decent
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Or they could just make it so you can't equip gear that you're too low level for.

But that idea is too mainstream and uncreative for them :)
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#9 Oct 29 2010 at 7:47 AM Rating: Decent
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As being the 28th thread on this topic, I agree when it comes to weapons (and jewelery). Accuracy and attack does hinder for weapons above your class.

Armour, on the other hand - doesn't matter much. Take the time and compare armour of class, and of a higher class before rendering a decision. It's all situational.
I use bronze haub @ 20 Gladiator - because it was easy to make, and easy to repair. It has the same defense as sentinels chainmail equipped, gives me a few extra STR and wears a LOT slower than sentinels chainmail.

I don't know where you're getting your stats by saying "causes your gear to degrade faster" - i'm sure you pulled it out of a hat, or your ***.

As for shield, I fancy the riot shield too (Scutm) - cause it's cheap to repair. It doesn't wear as fast as the Pelta did either. Does it block as often when you're under level? - probably not - but Aegis boon + still precision on opening = doesn't matter. Plus the healers like healing me, cause it gives them more SP.

Bottom line, there will be level 20s running around with Iron Haub using an Iron Shortsword whiffing away at dodo's.. who cares - they're leveling slower than you and having a fun time doing it. If they were in my linkshell, i'd tell them the difference though.
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#10 Oct 29 2010 at 7:48 AM Rating: Default
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lol i just ran by you not too long ago when going city to city getting my leves, geffe
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#11 Oct 29 2010 at 7:54 AM Rating: Excellent
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DonFlamenco wrote:
Wearing gear for which you have not yet reached the optimal rank causes your gear to degrade faster and only gives you a fraction of stats and attribute bonuses listed for that particular piece of equipment. While no one's figured out the precise scaling mechanics, it's pretty well established that wearing gear optimized for a few ranks below your current rank is > wearing gear optimized for several ranks above your current rank.

I assume that everyone who reads here @ ZAM knows this by now, but please take the time to explain this to the a$$holes that come to camp in gear that they are 22 rank levels too low for. Last night I partied with a level 16 GLA wearing armor with an optimal rank of 38.

If you wanna solo like that, more power to you, and I'm not here to tell you how to play your game. But please extend your party members the courtesy of wearing gear that's remotely appropriate for your current level. Believe it or not, looking cool doesn't help us XP/SP more efficiently.

Thanks!


You're wrong, gears aint just about level, gears are also about types. Cuirass > Haubergeon > all other armour types in term of DEF per Level. Weapons also aint just about Level, Macuahuitl > Sword/Spatha/Gladius > Dagger in term of ATK per level and the exact opposite in term of Accuracy, each Disciples have 2-3 weapon types and they are just not for show. Believe it or not, just knowing Optimal Rank doesn't mean you know how to play the game/help us XP/SP more efficiently.
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#12 Oct 29 2010 at 8:18 AM Rating: Decent
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i simply dont have the space to keep 10 different armour/crafting outfits, so i'll just take the degrading and even level up my crafters while i repair them :P
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#13 Oct 29 2010 at 8:18 AM Rating: Decent
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Everyone knows, no one cares. I can only agree for weapons. Durability loss(Which is already pretty bad) becomes horrible when using a far above current rank weapon.

It really doesn't matter for armor.

Three and a half weeks ago, I bought a Bronze Hauby for my then 12(I think) Marauder. It is the only thing I have used on the job since then. It is down a whole 6k Durability. That's it in all this time, playing nearly every day since then.
Two weeks ago I bought a Leather Jacket(Green, ugly) for my then 12 Pugilist. Mostly because it looked cool but whatever. It was down by 2k as of yesterday(before i had it repaired for trade).

The durability loss for over-rank Armor/Accessories is not bad at all. Everything will scale to you, and while it may not be the best option for your job at whatever level, it will **** near always be far from horrible.
If we are supposed to trust the menu(Maybe we shouldn't though), you will almost always gain the full benefit of Stat+ on armor if you are one of the favored classes.

Maybe there is some hidden downfall(Not in menu, would require actual testing to see) to wearing over rank gear, but I've yet to experience it, or at the least notice it.
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#14 Oct 29 2010 at 8:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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Actually some items already become better then others before they reach optimal level. It varies greatly from item to item. For example my 32 crafting tool became better then my 22 tool when I reached rank 27. Then there is the case that when I level one of my subs, I'm not going to buy whole new sets of gear that take up precious space. I just use my higher gear, which I can repair myself. Durability therefore means nothing to me.
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#15 Oct 29 2010 at 8:39 AM Rating: Good
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Uchitoru wrote:
Everyone knows, no one cares. I can only agree for weapons. Durability loss(Which is already pretty bad) becomes horrible when using a far above current rank weapon.


It isn't just the issue of durability loss for weapons. You also will see a very noticeable drop-off in a weapon's general functionality (damage done with it, attack, and whatnot). It's much more pronounced with weapons what it does to your overall stats and abilities.

That also goes for tools. Especially tools, actually, to the point where I'd sooner keep searching for someone to craft me something if whoever offered to do a commission for me is using a tool well beyond their rank. Proof enough if you compare a Bronze Needle and an Iron Needle and are nowhere near rank 22. However that example goes back to the issue someone mentioned of how some lower level items are, well, to put is frankly, about as fun as scrubbing a sac of hairy *expletive!* when it comes to craft requirements, both in terms of individual pieces and where to get everything. The Hedgemole Needle needs a hedgemole spine, for example, to make the rank 12 needle.

Know what drops hedgemole spines? Hedgemoles.
Know the level of hedgemoles? In the 40s.

Anyway, SE really dropped the ball on requirements for synthesizing, to say the least. And it goes further than just the issue of optimal equipment, too; there are a lot of people who aren't able to move their lower rank wares, even if they are better for people to use, because a lot of players just want to snap up the higher ranked equipment, negative ramifications be damned. As a result, you have a more stagnant economy for new crafters who would normally be selling, say, a rank 12 plumed bronze pickaxes, because some schmoe is shouting to the high heavens in Gridania about their inventory of rank 22 iron pickaxes.

... that last example actually happened, by the way. Despite my best efforts to get people to realize this was effectively someone pulling a fast one and gimping them for a good 10 levels (he seriously would not stop shouting all day long ... ugh), people cared more about "Well, it must be better if it's higher ranked, right?"

Edited, Oct 29th 2010 10:40am by ResidentLune
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#17Galkaholics, Posted: Oct 29 2010 at 8:44 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) thank you lillith
#18 Oct 29 2010 at 9:05 AM Rating: Decent
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Amazing... most people know by now high armor > low armor and high weapons < optimun weapons and that if you check how your stats update on the inventory screen you can judge for yourself which would be better. That being said I have a paralyzing dagger I use thats way above my glad rank HOWEVER I can repair it myself. That means more to me then the carry stats. Bottom line, unless you made the game and/or have done extensive testing, and you know the person complete circumstances, you can't judge what anyone wears or uses in this game.
#19 Oct 29 2010 at 9:28 AM Rating: Good
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I use some gear at or below my rank and some gear well above my rank. I've been wearing Bronze Chainmail since rank 13 despite having Sentinel's Chainmail in storage and also despite the fact that I can make and repair Bronze and Iron Haubergeons. I also wear an Assault Sallet (rank 25), Reinforced Bronze Mitt Gauntlets (rank 22), Bronze Sollerets (rank 27). And if someone were to give me a hard time for my choices I'd tell them to eat a ****. I wear them because I made them, because I can repair them, and because they're still better than most of the other options available to me even after stat scaling. I'm not rummaging around for two hours very couple of levels trying to find "Optimal" gear that I may or may not be able to make and if I can't, may or may not be available from other players and if it is, may or may not be priced in such a way as to not lose half its value in a week when the market fills out on that particular item.

I'm also stat capped across the board with or without gear based on rank vs. physical level, which means any issues with stat scaling that might be apparent with someone whose physical level is closer to their class rank won't be nearly so apparent with me.

So while we're on our crusade to rid the community of ignorance, I'd ask that we pass along another message to our comrades and cohorts: if the gear isn't on your character and the player in question isn't contributing to regular failures, mind your **** business.
#20 Oct 29 2010 at 2:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Bottom line is, in a party - at least from my own experience through the low 20's - it doesn't matter what you are wearing. The enemies die so fast that you barely get more than a few hits in anyway.

I'm wearing gear optimal for my level because if affects my ability to solo, but I don't care what people are wearing when they show up to a party.

Then you have the fact that the game is boring for most people. If being able to wear level 38 armor at level 15 is what it takes to make the game more exciting for them, then I say go for it.
#21 Oct 29 2010 at 4:37 PM Rating: Good
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It seems people still only understand about Optimum Level and think that's it. FFXIV give us several types of gears and it is not just for show, they are used for different preference/build. The r38 Cuirass actually give better DEF than any Sentinel Chainmail even if you just hit the Sentinel sweet optimum level, because it's FULL PLATE. On the other hand, Cuirass and Haubergeon also have worst EVASION Stat out there, you would want a Harness for example for Evasion. People don't just dress whatever is their optimum level, that's the basic level of understanding. People dress what is suitable for their build. Same thing applied to weapon, they all have different stat allocation, for instance r26-29 Lancer have choices between Spear, Lance and Harpoon. Spear has average stat overall and can use all types of Lancer skill decently. Lance has highest ATK, lowest ACC, 100% Piercing but 0% other damage type which means it's crap when you use Moonrise or Leg Sweep. Harpoon has highest ACC, lowest ATK (scaled by level), 10% more Piercing than Spear. You would pick what is suitable for your build, not picking the highest optimum level you can come by, because if you're rank 29 and you think the Harpoon does more damage than the Lance, as it has higher Optimum level that matches your rank, you're totally wrong. Seriously, wake up, the game is more complex than you think it is.

And just about SP/EXP efficiently, a small hint, whatever attack that also debuff give bigger SP return, as it gives SP for the hit + SP for the debuff seperately. That's SP efficiently. You don't need to worry about EXP efficiently.

Edited, Oct 29th 2010 6:40pm by Khornette
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#22 Oct 29 2010 at 5:12 PM Rating: Default
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Do you also hate on people wearing high priced watches, gold chains when their income is less then yours?

Get over yourself, you cant control what other people do in life.

Move on and stop worrying about other people.

I give props to anyone who wears anything
#23 Oct 29 2010 at 5:59 PM Rating: Good
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I'm still playing the game and I am enjoying the things I enjoy very much. There are volumes of things that could and should be improved upon but I'm sure many will be as time passes - and I'm a pretty patient guy so my frustration meter is still pretty darned low. I do have a little theory as to why this is over-ranked gearing is occurring but why it's gotten stuck in the OP's craw is perhaps best left to a therapist. ;-)

I believe that the whole concept of "gear" might very well be one of the more engaging aspects of games such as FFXIV (or rather as FFXIV should work towards improving). And I personally like the fact that you can equip stuff no matter the class or rank. I think that this, in reality, is more player friendly and it is certainly more inventory friendly. Especially given the new "mountain of ingredients" crafting system and the +++ item drops we now have. Add to this the current limit to one retainer and the decision to make all gear equip-able makes a lot of sense.

I'm sure I'm not alone in that getting gear, upgrading your stuff, and creating pimp builds was a pretty big component and goal for character growth. I for one really enjoy messing around with different items and even getting stuff that just looked bad-a$$ as I level my characters. I remember looking thru the AH in FFXI and plotting the gear I'd get next, checking for the price and availability and strategizing how I'd earn the gil to get them. Then I'd scour the forums for threads dealing with various items and builds. It was a solid self-improvement sort of goal that was almost entirely outside of anything SE actively had to generate and contribute in order to make the game more engaging. And yes there was also a little "peer acceptance" mixed in. I mean you HAD to get certain items to be effective, or so most people thought! haha.

But I simply do not get that so far in this game. The gear options just FEEL more limited and the stat bonuses feel underwhelming in a way. I know they are offering more variety in that you can get items in colors now, which is totally cool, but it just feels like there are less items. And I have not actually sat down to figure out if it is just a feeling or if there are less items. It just feels less engaging and that you can basically peak as quickly as you can find and buy the gear. I suspect there may be MORE items in FFXIV than there were in FFXI (earlier on) but it simply doesn't feel that way. Maybe it's that it's so new that no one is having serious gear build conversations yet nor are the making all of the items? Maybe it's that gear is intentionally not central to the way SE envisions FFXIV being played. Or maybe, and I think more likely, this is all an unintended consequence of allowing people to equip things anytime rather than having "attaining gear" as another reward for leveling your character? I'm not entirely sure what but I know this aspect of the game feels a little flat to me.

Anyone else have thoughts on this?

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#24 Oct 29 2010 at 6:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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I am an armorer. I make my own gear. I don't care what people think about Optimal rank. I make it, I repair it for 1 flimsy item that I can make 12 of with one synth. Then I'm on my way. Stop caring about what other people do and just play the game for your own enjoyment. We know items degrade faster. I am so tired of these threads.

So as I said in another thread like this. "Who cares..." I don't. Wear what you want. Bazaar it and I will repair it... I don't mind. have fun, its what the game is for.
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#25 Oct 29 2010 at 7:35 PM Rating: Default
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Every single party i have been in the Thur and Conj always wanted us to take more damage. **** we took off out gear so they could get more heals in for more SP. Were in parties about 10-15 people and we all make killer SP. As of now gear doesn't matter so much but weapons do. Well weapons at your rank seem to do better for more SP. Thata what it seems like to me anyways.
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#26 Oct 29 2010 at 8:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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We had a guild guy swap in a bronze celata to replace a bronze chain coif, and complain that he didn't see any difference in performance at all. Well, no, he was level 18 or so - the level-reduced performance of the coif was almost matching the VERY level-reduced performance of the celata.

All that said, perfect suitability isn't the only factor. It might be worth it to repair five times as often if the repair ingredient is 5x cheaper. It might just plain be easier to find the higher-level item; it would be cheaper for me to vendor an iron needle every time it wore out, then buy a new one, than it would be for me to hunt down a hedgemole spine -once-.

Aesthetics are important too. Have you SEEN an Elezen in a chain coif? With the chain ear coverings? It's hilarious.

Just know what you're getting into, when it comes to items. If you want to get one, do the math to make sure it's really an upgrade, or at least a side-grade. Know how to maintain it. Do you have a friend who can fix it? Can you manage it? Can you get the parts? Do you have tons of gil for the repair guy?
#27 Oct 30 2010 at 12:26 PM Rating: Good
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In all honesty some gear for the Right Rank seems very hard to come by. To craft it seems to require multiple crafts which again dont help. Then you need the right stat equip for crafting for higher success.... and ofcourse the items. I still am in the process of getting everything to 10 and saving a lot of gil for a craft burn.

Its a mouthfull either way.

I recently have a piece of gear well 2 actually 1 which is 2 ranks above me and 1 which is about 8 ranks above me. I recently switched over to the closer rank one because I only JUST got it. To be honest, I would rather wear something that looks good and 20 ranks above me then wear something which looks crap and frankly doesnt have any good stats anyway. Untill the search function for the wards is working then this will be the way it is. BUT if your stropping big time over something thats simply rather silly.... losing a bit of a def/eva and possibly 1str/dex really doesnt matter.

Edit*

Its like complaining on FFXI when a level sync occurs and your wearing HIGH level gear. Which to be honest doesnt matter at those low levels. Some jobs may require the ACC/RACC or things but usually manage alright.

Edited, Oct 30th 2010 2:27pm by Lonix
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#28 Oct 30 2010 at 8:21 PM Rating: Default
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i will admit im guilty of this to a extent. but the way i see it after doing the math. even though the gears stats are redused they still give slightly more then the the gear for your rank and you save a crap ton of gil by buying slightly higher gear.

now at the level for that said gear it will be better for 1 level. but next level the higher gear will go up and the other will stay the same. if there was a better way to hint for gear level apropiat gearing would be more pratical. but it isint.
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#29 Oct 30 2010 at 9:09 PM Rating: Default
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RisonSrithuram wrote:
As being the 28th thread on this topic, I agree when it comes to weapons (and jewelery). Accuracy and attack does hinder for weapons above your class.

Armour, on the other hand - doesn't matter much. Take the time and compare armour of class, and of a higher class before rendering a decision. It's all situational.
I use bronze haub @ 20 Gladiator - because it was easy to make, and easy to repair. It has the same defense as sentinels chainmail equipped, gives me a few extra STR and wears a LOT slower than sentinels chainmail.

I don't know where you're getting your stats by saying "causes your gear to degrade faster" - i'm sure you pulled it out of a hat, or your ***.

As for shield, I fancy the riot shield too (Scutm) - cause it's cheap to repair. It doesn't wear as fast as the Pelta did either. Does it block as often when you're under level? - probably not - but Aegis boon + still precision on opening = doesn't matter. Plus the healers like healing me, cause it gives them more SP.

Bottom line, there will be level 20s running around with Iron Haub using an Iron Shortsword whiffing away at dodo's.. who cares - they're leveling slower than you and having a fun time doing it. If they were in my linkshell, i'd tell them the difference though.


err not sure if it was you that posted this, or you were quoting someone (im grinding on another pc so cant look) but.. yea it does cause your gear to degrade faster.. by ALOT. so as for his.. sources and *** hat pulling? Squeenix is an OK source amirite?
#30 Oct 30 2010 at 9:31 PM Rating: Good
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From my somewhat limited Market Ward shopping experiences, it seems very hard to find armor your own level at lower levels, which is why it may be easier to buy higher stuff at times.
#31 Oct 30 2010 at 9:32 PM Rating: Default
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klepp6761 wrote:

err not sure if it was you that posted this, or you were quoting someone (im grinding on another pc so cant look) but.. yea it does cause your gear to degrade faster.. by ALOT. so as for his.. sources and *** hat pulling? Squeenix is an OK source amirite?


ROFLMAO SE A GOOD SOURCE ROFL LMAO OMGWTF BBQ your not serious are you?
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#32 Oct 31 2010 at 2:49 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I assume that everyone who reads here @ ZAM knows this by now, but please take the time to explain this to the a$$holes that come to camp in gear that they are 22 rank levels too low for. Last night I partied with a level 16 GLA wearing armor with an optimal rank of 38.

If you wanna solo like that, more power to you, and I'm not here to tell you how to play your game. But please extend your party members the courtesy of wearing gear that's remotely appropriate for your current level. Believe it or not, looking cool doesn't help us XP/SP more efficiently.

Thanks!


Great, and I thought it'd be a while before this attitude reared its ugly head.
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#33 Oct 31 2010 at 11:44 AM Rating: Decent
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I know that I but and equip gear above optional rank for one reason; I b uy stuff I know that I'll eventually use because I never know if and when I'll see it again on the future. I hate searching every bazaar I pass, due to lag and time. The market wards take forever. When I'm only on for an hour or two a night I don't want to waste time searching through inventories.

I equip non optimal armour because it is worth my time too. Sometimes it is the best I can find.
#34 Oct 31 2010 at 1:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Rank 15 Glad now, and wearing Bronze Hauby and coif and sollerets since about lvl 10. Even though the gap is long, I simply could not find anything better that favored my classes like Marauder and simply need them to be optimal. I did the cheap and abundant ones like dodoskin and such, but even then when a piece of armor 10+ levels over your optimal rank gives better stats, its not worth wearing what your supposed to. Each level is so quick anyways and each level boosts my def by 8-9 more without having to change equips.

Lastly, repair, I can repair my armor and weapons in the field with no hassle, if I started doing canvas based armorers or whatever, it makes me either have to level to repair it OR beg others to repair it when it breaks. Do yourself a favor and get what is the current best you can find and use well until an AH or search function is implemented well.

This isn't even end game yet.
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#35 Oct 31 2010 at 1:34 PM Rating: Good
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im 11-12 on my classes that can wear bronze hauby and its better than other stuff i just look at it that when i hit lv27 i'll have full stats. i can repair it my self for free anyways so it no prob if it degrades

Edited, Oct 31st 2010 3:37pm by mitmystria
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