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#1 Oct 29 2010 at 8:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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Failing on gear repairs is the stupidest @#%^ing thing I've yet seen in this game. Clearly it's not bad enough that our weapons wear out after maybe 2 hours of use, but on top of that I now have to fail my repairs on it SIX TIMES IN A ROW? So that brass dagger that cost me 5k to make just cost me 7 more brass nuggets to repair... and no, my skill level is not too low. I'm a rank 19 goldsmith. The brass dagger is rank 19. There is absolutely no reason for this system. If you want to introduce more gil sinks, add in a **** AH, or chocobos, or airships, or some @#%^ING content to this husk of a game.

I'm trying to like this game... I really am. But the overwhelming amount of things that are completely backwards, missing, or just baffling in this game has driven me to the brink. It seems like every day something new comes along to **** me off for absolutely no reason other than it's SE and it's basically their job to make things as circuitous as possible. Am I alone in this?

Edited, Oct 29th 2010 10:33am by BartelX
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#2 Oct 29 2010 at 8:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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What's fun about your post is that its basically the truth. I mean I'm about as tired of reading posts like these as the next person but strangely I couldn't find anything in it that I disagree with. And that's not really fun at all, actually. >.<
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#3 Oct 29 2010 at 8:47 AM Rating: Default
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wear crafting gear, ive fixed my brass dagger ~7 times, the max only having to use 2 brass nuggets. oh yeah im R11
#4 Oct 29 2010 at 8:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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i have a full crafting gear set. That's not the problem.
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#5 Oct 29 2010 at 8:50 AM Rating: Decent
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theres no doubt SE is the only company whos games and cust service and well,, just SE in general can make me rage irl


im pretty good at ignoring stuff and being the bigger man.. yes ill still argue but i dont resort to childish "yo mama" or cussing

except in the case of dealing with SE


how i cope....

alcahol. and lots of it.. you wont even realize your wep is broke and the next day when you awake with your head on the keyboard youll have a ton of crystals and noticed you dropped a ton of items cause you were drunk farming with a full bag lol
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#6 Oct 30 2010 at 1:08 AM Rating: Excellent
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You know what; Ive seen this too.

Ive been using the r28 Ash Longbow for a while. In the time I've had it Ive fixed it successfully many times - often enough that I became comfortable with repairing it in my ARC gear and not bothering to switch to my crafting set. I'm Carpentry 18. Suddenly the other day - before the patch - I could not fix it for the life of me. I failed 7 times in a row, wearing crafting gear, before I was able to successfully repair it.

Sure i know, random fails are random but that just seemed like a little much. In my first 15 attempts to repair this weapon i went 13-2, then suddenly fail 7 times in a row? Seems like an unnecessary kick in the balls when you're dealing with a poorly implemented gear durability mechanic in the first place.

Edited, Oct 30th 2010 7:09am by Timorith
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#7 Oct 30 2010 at 1:43 AM Rating: Default
your forgetting that the hour/day elements may have conflicted heavily with your repair rate, also remember that even the best RNGs are prone to streaking. could have just been bad luck. also try to repair gear closer to/during a full moon, this will help a little.
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#8 Oct 30 2010 at 2:12 AM Rating: Good
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your forgetting that the hour/day elements may have conflicted heavily with your repair rate, also remember that even the best RNGs are prone to streaking. could have just been bad luck. also try to repair gear closer to/during a full moon, this will help a little.


First off this isn't XI, secondly no one has done any conclusive research to justify the moon/element theory affecting crafting. So unless you can provide numbers that prove this theory I'd kindly ask that you not spread baseless rumors around. I'd hate to see this crap being spread around like it was in XI. This and the whole facing a certain direction nonsense.
#9 Oct 30 2010 at 2:20 AM Rating: Default
CupDeNoodles wrote:
Quote:
your forgetting that the hour/day elements may have conflicted heavily with your repair rate, also remember that even the best RNGs are prone to streaking. could have just been bad luck. also try to repair gear closer to/during a full moon, this will help a little.


First off this isn't XI, secondly no one has done any conclusive research to justify the moon/element theory affecting crafting. So unless you can provide numbers that prove this theory I'd kindly ask that you not spread baseless rumors around. I'd hate to see this crap being spread around like it was in XI. This and the whole facing a certain direction nonsense.
Fail...ANNNNNNND, fail. All elemental influences were beyond a reasonable doubt proven in FFXI, as was direction influece. The direction influence in FFXI was UNDENYABLY confirmed when SE explicity stated that they would not carry over the direction influence on crafting to FFXIV.

What rock have you been living under...as far as crafting influences in FFXIV...

EXTENSIVE STUDY OF DAY/HOUR/MOON/WEATHER EFFECTS ON CRAFTING.

Check that thread out, maybe you'll learn something.

Also... you heard of Eorzea Clock? Nifty little Windows 7 gadget. It's my best friend.

Edited, Oct 30th 2010 4:25am by StateAlchemist2

Edited, Oct 30th 2010 4:25am by StateAlchemist2
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#10StateAlchemist2, Posted: Oct 30 2010 at 2:30 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) If you read the thread I posted for you you will see that SE practically vomited the existance of crafting modifiers (via daily, hourly, weather elements, moon phase and polarity). And if you have any kind of craft leveled ( I am rank 30 alchemist myself...) you would have realized this to be true if you ever had to synth Maple Sap thousands of times in a row. Fire+Water... wont catch me doing it with Day: Water Hour: Lightning or in a thunderstorm...ele unstable? No, thanks...
#11 Oct 30 2010 at 2:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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StateAlchemist2 wrote:
your forgetting that the hour/day elements may have conflicted heavily with your repair rate, also remember that even the best RNGs are prone to streaking. could have just been bad luck. also try to repair gear closer to/during a full moon, this will help a little.


Ehhh...well, okay. Your suggestions are fair and accurate. At the end of the day, however, having a mechanic in the game that makes it so that you can fail a repair attempt is just...the anti-thesis of fun. The repair system already pushes the bounds of something that even the most forgiving players are going to be willing to accept for any length of time.

SE doesn't seem to understand certain things about game design. It's as though they count on that "sense of accomplishment" to be a more gratifying experience than actual fun and entertainment. And taken a step further, sometimes they don't seem to realize that some of their systems can actually detract from that sense of accomplishment. And one of those detracting components can be progressing beyond a certain point and then failing repeatedly at something that should be easy.

I had a similar repair situation. I had a Square Maple Shield that I used when I ranked up Gladiator from 3 -> 13, Conjurer 1 -> 10 and Thaumaturge 1 -> 18. In other words, I had repaired the shield numerous times. Then on one occasion I got the heavy damage warning and determined it was my shield causing it so I switched to crafting gear and attempted to repair it. I had two maple planks left and I failed the repair twice. All I could think was, "Why?" Gil was a non-issue for me but it irked me on principle that I now have to either switch to botanist and go log until I get a maple log (and hope the RNG doesn't **** block me and make me blow that up, too), wait for the leve reset and do a carpentry leve with 2 x Maple Log as the reward, or run back to town and pay an NPC to repair it to 75%.

There was nothing about that situation that I found fun and when I went and logged the logs and cut them into planks and finally repaired my shield, I didn't feel accomplished. I was ****** that repairing a ******* shield had taken half an hour out of my session.

There are issues with the game right now and I appreciate your optimism and "roll with the punches" approach. Unfortunately, people like me who left FFXI unhappy with the game and SE were maybe hoping to see that they had evolved their design and tuning philosophies to exclude these ridiculous mechanics because they definitely don't add anything to the game that players would just as happily do without if it meant they didn't have to deal with the BS that comes along with it.
#12 Oct 30 2010 at 2:46 AM Rating: Default
The only time I can see failing a repair at ALL as being unfair is if you are high enough Rank to make that item and gain NO Skill Points from it. If the synthesis itself would give you Skill Points, that says to me that "there is still something to learn" so to speak. Which means even when repairing that item, you don't "know everything" about it.

If making your shield would give you 0 skill points...then darn straight you better have a 100% repair rate, and I would definitely complain if I failed...even once. lol

They did mention some kind of crafting tweak in upcoming update(s) right? Maybe they will address that issue as well by making the RNG a little more lenient?

I don't do many repairs myself, but I understand your frustration. Rate up.
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#13 Oct 30 2010 at 2:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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StateAlchemist2 wrote:
The only time I can see failing a repair at ALL as being unfair is if you are high enough Rank to make that item and gain NO Skill Points from it. If the synthesis itself would give you Skill Points, that says to me that "there is still something to learn" so to speak. Which means even when repairing that item, you don't "know everything" about it.

If making your shield would give you 0 skill points...then darn straight you better have a 100% repair rate, and I would definitely complain if I failed...even once. lol

They did mention some kind of crafting tweak in upcoming update(s) right? Maybe they will address that issue as well by making the RNG a little more lenient?

I don't do many repairs myself, but I understand your frustration. Rate up.



It's another example, in my opinion, of them being too realistic in regards to crafting. Maybe it makes sense that you have more to learn, but I'm not taking a bloody Blacksmithing course here. I'm playing a game, and this is little more then a frustration-inducing time sink. It adds no depth to the world, and considering it's heavily based on RNGs (possibly even multiple RNGs..) removing repair fail chance would not diminish anything. It would simply be a quality-of-life boost for everyone.

As much of a job as XI felt like at times, the more I log in XIV the more I feel like I need to be punching a time card. =/
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#14 Oct 30 2010 at 3:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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StateAlchemist2 wrote:
The only time I can see failing a repair at ALL as being unfair is if you are high enough Rank to make that item and gain NO Skill Points from it. If the synthesis itself would give you Skill Points, that says to me that "there is still something to learn" so to speak. Which means even when repairing that item, you don't "know everything" about it.


It's not about "unfair". It's about what it does to the player's experience.

Gear repairs are something a smart developer doesn't mess with. The concept of durability loss is, in essence, a penalty attached to playing the game. Other MMOs keep the irritation factor to a minimum by making it so that durability loss is only rapid if you're dying a lot in a short span of time (ie. endgame progression content) and repairs are streamlined so that it's a one-shot deal that only hurts your "pocketbook" if you're running around in very good gear.

SE has done the exact opposite. My Gladiator's dagger is good for about 2 hours of focused grinding before it goes red. My shield is good for maybe twice that amount of time. The entire process for repairing gear to 100% is tedious and time consuming, and the inventory requirements to repair your own gear add up very quickly. For my character at present in order to repair all of my gear I need bronze nuggets, bronze plates, bronze rings, iron nuggets, brass nuggets, sheep leather straps, dodo leather spetches, buffalo leather spetches (which I can't make yet, meaning I repair my belts at the NPC), cotton fent, hempen fent, canvas fent, iron squares, and maple branches. And the cost to repair to 75% at the NPC on all but starter gear is excessive. Throw in the added kick to the teeth of being able to fail a repair attempt at all and you've got the makings of a system that is going to be a source of player frustration for a long time unless SE overhauls it with the quickness.


Edited, Oct 30th 2010 2:03am by Aurelius
#15 Oct 30 2010 at 3:06 AM Rating: Decent
Aurelius wrote:
StateAlchemist2 wrote:
The only time I can see failing a repair at ALL as being unfair is if you are high enough Rank to make that item and gain NO Skill Points from it. If the synthesis itself would give you Skill Points, that says to me that "there is still something to learn" so to speak. Which means even when repairing that item, you don't "know everything" about it.


It's not about "unfair". It's about what it does to the player's experience.

Gear repairs are something a smart developer doesn't mess with. The concept of durability loss is, in essence, a penalty attached to playing the game. Other MMOs keep the irritation factor to a minimum by making it so that durability loss is only rapid if you're dying a lot in a short span of time (ie. endgame progression content) and repairs are streamlined so that it's a one-shot deal that only hurts your "pocketbook" if you're running around in very good gear.

SE has done the exact opposite. My Gladiator's dagger is good for about 2 hours of focused grinding before it goes red. My shield is good for maybe twice that amount of time. The entire process for repairing gear to 100% is tedious and time consuming, and the inventory requirements to repair your own gear add up very quickly. For my character at present in order to repair all of my gear I need bronze nuggets, bronze plates, bronze rings, iron nuggets, brass nuggets, sheep leather straps, dodo leather spetches, buffalo leather spetches (which I can't make yet, meaning I repair my belts at the NPC), cotton fent, hempen fent, canvas fent, iron squares, and maple branches. And the cost to repair to 75% at the NPC on all but starter gear is excessive. Throw in the added kick to the teeth of being able to fail a repair attempt at all and you've got the makings of a system that is going to be a source of player frustration for a long time unless SE overhauls it with the quickness.

Edited, Oct 30th 2010 2:03am by Aurelius


When you put it like that I agree. Makes me kind of glad all I do is alchemy... All cloth-based gear, so I just hit up the weavers guild for repairs, and an Armorer to repair my alembic. Guess I am kind of lucky.


Edited, Oct 30th 2010 5:07am by StateAlchemist2
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#16 Oct 30 2010 at 3:23 AM Rating: Good
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Fail...ANNNNNNND, fail. All elemental influences were beyond a reasonable doubt proven in FFXI, as was direction influece. The direction influence in FFXI was UNDENYABLY confirmed when SE explicity stated that they would not carry over the direction influence on crafting to FFXIV.


Again I ask that you provide a link to conclusive evidence confirming this.

Quote:
What rock have you been living under...as far as crafting influences in FFXIV...

EXTENSIVE STUDY OF DAY/HOUR/MOON/WEATHER EFFECTS ON CRAFTING.

Check that thread out, maybe you'll learn something.


All I see in that link are people throwing out guesses on random text they found in-game.

Quote:
Another possible input is the current moon phase. From the FFXIV Server Status site (http://www.ffxiv-status.com/), there are 8 moon phases, which change every 4 hours 40 minutes of real-world time.


The above was taken from "The Syndicate" website posted in the tread in the link you provided. They did no conclusive research on it, at least none that I've found.

Quote:
[ Crafting ]
Attributes: Works in conjunction with the type of tool used to affect synthesis quality
Elemental: Affects the occurrence rate of “god sends,” as well as synthesis stability


The above is from lodestone. That is the closest thing I found concerning elements affecting crafting. I'm assuming that means your characters elemental stats and not the element of the day/hour. Also take note they said nothing about moon phase.

#17 Oct 30 2010 at 3:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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It's just one of the many balls SE has dropped in relation to FFXIV. The first time I "failed" a repair I sat there for a few minutes in silent disbelief. I wasn't quite sure that I had just experienced something so asinine.

And the system is just as backwards as synthing. Sometimes you can repair an item before you can make it and other times it's the exact opposite and you "lack the skill" to repair an item that you can actually synth. It's like knowing how to build a car from the ground up, but lacking the ability to change the tires.
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#18StateAlchemist2, Posted: Oct 30 2010 at 6:12 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Fine. Ignore it all, I could care less if your just another sub-par crafter.
#19 Oct 30 2010 at 8:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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StateAlchemist2 wrote:
[quote=CupDeNoodles]Fine. Ignore it all, I could care less if your just another sub-par crafter.

But just for yucks...prove me wrong. Prove me wrong and I will PayPal you $100.00 US, no questions asked. You know why i can offer to do that? Because you can't. It's already proven to be the case. All the high level crafters know it, because we've all had to do a rediculous amount of the same synths to get where we are. Do we have time to parse every synth? No. We are too busy making all the gear and ingredients and items that only 2-3 people on a server can make, because we actually know what we are doing, and we do it the best.


No ones ignoring you, you're just presenting inconclusive ideas and ramming them down our throats like it's fact. Has SE said weather and moonphase are factors in crafting? If they hadn't said your guardian and birth days have no effect in the game; would you believe it if someone told you those also affect craft?

Perhaps you are just looking for complexity when there is none and even if it were that complex; merely saying these factors will affect your crafting/repair means absolutely nothing if you can't even give details on what effects they even have.

'All high level crafters know it,' know what? Based on what? What are the effects? Take your elistist bullsh*t elsewhere.

Edited, Oct 30th 2010 10:13am by sylph19
#20 Oct 30 2010 at 9:17 AM Rating: Decent
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You do realize that before ANY theories were even formalized in ffxi as to the effects of elements and direction, people did literally MONTHS of research and testing. IIRC, no one really had any kind of solid "proof" of these concepts until years after the game was released and countless tests were done.

While I am not going to tell you you are wrong, I'm also not going to agree with you. It MIGHT be the case, but I'd certainly like to see a lot more testing on it. Also, just fyi, that site you linked to really doesn't have much more than ideas and baseless (or minimally tested) theories. It's fine to believe in something, but its rather silly to make assumptions about it based on something that is an idea or theory at best.
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#21 Oct 30 2010 at 9:31 AM Rating: Default
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No ones ignoring you,

I didn't say anyone was. I said people are ignoring the obvious.

Quote:
you're just presenting inconclusive ideas and ramming them down our throats like it's fact.


I never presented the ideas in the first place. Lots of other crafters (even more serious about crafting than I) made the discoveries, did the research, discovered the in game texts explain the relationship between elements/wheather/moon effects on synthesis.

Quote:
Has SE said weather and moonphase are factors in crafting?


Would they take the time to put volumes of text saying so IN THE GAME ITSELF if it wasnt true?

Quote:
If they hadn't said your guardian and birth days have no effect in the game; would you believe it if someone told you those also affect craft?


Probably, based on the Guardian descriptions. However SE admitted they havent yet implemented the feature.

Quote:
Perhaps you are just looking for complexity when there is none and even if it were that complex; merely saying these factors will affect your crafting/repair means absolutely nothing if you can't even give details on what effects they even have.


Not looking for complexity. Looking for efficiency. Try ranking up Alchemist. You'll spend 10 Ranks synthing crystals into shards (note that these ALL use one element) you'll quickly learn just how much the elements come into play. Try synthing thousands of Maple Sap into Maple Syrup going from Rank 23~30+ this uses Fire+Water. You'll learn even more about how elements effect multi-element synthesis. There is a plethera of information on the relations of elements to synthesis. The genral rule of thumb from FFXI in this case applies here. If your synthesis is Fire, Ice Elements present on the day/hour will give better success. Water on both will give lower success. Do a Water synth in a thunderstorm (for skill ups) and tell me how much harder it is. Try making some lightning based synths on weaver outside uldah in a sandstorm and tell me the difference. Everyone who is a serious crafter, knows this already. The problem is some people are casual crafters who just dont care if they are good at thier craft. Just because you dont synth enough to notice the effect doesnt mean it doesnt exist.

Quote:
Take your elistist bullsh*t elsewhere.

Sorry to say, but you don't see noobs testing thoeries, you don't see noobs writing guides. You don't see noobs being one of the highest ranking people in thier class.

Am I an elitist? Yes, and darn proud of it. You don't become the best by being an ignorant noob. Try learning from someone with more experience than you obviously have instead of insulting the people who are obviously trying to help out the ones who don't know as much.

At least I share my findings/new recipes/information/tips on leveling. Some people would just keep it to themselves. So instead of complaining, try saying thank you for me helping you to become a better player.

And if you don't want to become a better player, then get the **** out of the forums.
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#22 Oct 30 2010 at 9:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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BartelX wrote:
I'm trying to like this game... I really am. But the overwhelming amount of things that are completely backwards, missing, or just baffling in this game has driven me to the brink. It seems like every day something new comes along to **** me off for absolutely no reason...
I feel the same way. Every time I find something to like, it reveals 5 things i despise. I'm past the point of trying to like the game. Now I'm asking myself 'why am i trying so hard?' I don't have an answer.
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#23 Oct 30 2010 at 9:38 AM Rating: Default
BartelX wrote:
You do realize that before ANY theories were even formalized in ffxi as to the effects of elements and direction, people did literally MONTHS of research and testing. IIRC, no one really had any kind of solid "proof" of these concepts until years after the game was released and countless tests were done.

While I am not going to tell you you are wrong, I'm also not going to agree with you. It MIGHT be the case, but I'd certainly like to see a lot more testing on it. Also, just fyi, that site you linked to really doesn't have much more than ideas and baseless (or minimally tested) theories. It's fine to believe in something, but its rather silly to make assumptions about it based on something that is an idea or theory at best.


I apologize if I dont want to list a link to every forum, thread, LS website, Japanese website, lodestone blog, and list every synthesis i ever did in game. Perosnally I dont have 3 hours to convince you of something i know is true.

Learn some japanese, use google, talk to the highest ranking crafters on your server. We already know whats going on. While people complain about failing synths and it being too hard or random, we are getting success where uninformed people would fail everytime.

Months of testing or not, based on the previously used elemental system in FFXI, every single action i perform in a sysnthesis matches the elemental model.

And the funny thing is the ONLY reason they removed the direction influence on craft was the introduction of multi element synthesis.

The only thing that needs TESTING if anything is more conclusive effects on day/hour element versus the multi-elements in synthesis.

Upgrade to Windows 7/Vista and get EorzeaClock. Use it. I'm done with this thread.
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#24 Oct 30 2010 at 9:44 AM Rating: Decent
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has anyone checked of repairing with the second hand works better? I did that with the weaver craft and it repaired though I havn't tested to what effect yet. just throwing it out there incase
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#25 Oct 30 2010 at 9:45 AM Rating: Good
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StateAlchemist2 wrote:
BartelX wrote:
You do realize that before ANY theories were even formalized in ffxi as to the effects of elements and direction, people did literally MONTHS of research and testing. IIRC, no one really had any kind of solid "proof" of these concepts until years after the game was released and countless tests were done.

While I am not going to tell you you are wrong, I'm also not going to agree with you. It MIGHT be the case, but I'd certainly like to see a lot more testing on it. Also, just fyi, that site you linked to really doesn't have much more than ideas and baseless (or minimally tested) theories. It's fine to believe in something, but its rather silly to make assumptions about it based on something that is an idea or theory at best.


I apologize if I dont want to list a link to every forum, thread, LS website, Japanese website, lodestone blog, and list every synthesis i ever did in game. Perosnally I dont have 3 hours to convince you of something i know is true.

Learn some japanese, use google, talk to the highest ranking crafters on your server. We already know whats going on. While people complain about failing synths and it being too hard or random, we are getting success where uninformed people would fail everytime.

Months of testing or not, based on the previously used elemental system in FFXI, every single action i perform in a sysnthesis matches the elemental model.

And the funny thing is the ONLY reason they removed the direction influence on craft was the introduction of multi element synthesis.

The only thing that needs TESTING if anything is more conclusive effects on day/hour element versus the multi-elements in synthesis.

Upgrade to Windows 7/Vista and get EorzeaClock. Use it. I'm done with this thread.


Good, I'm glad you are done with it. Now we don't need to listen to you trying to cram misguided information down our throats. Just for reference, I have the following crafts leveled: Gsmith 20, Armorer 25, Bsmith 18, Weaver 18, and about 3 others around 15 so I'm not some "noob" crafter. Once again, I personally am not discounting your ideas or anyone elses, but the manner in which you are presenting information actually makes YOU look like the noob. Trying to pass things off as facts when they are no more than theories or rumors is asinine. It makes you look like a conceited asshat. But whatever, go enjoy whatever it is you think you know about crafting. I'll keep pluggin along, doing just fine and watching as a lot more testing is done before I come to any silly conclusions.
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#26StateAlchemist2, Posted: Oct 30 2010 at 10:03 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Yes, and you will continue to be a sub-par crafter, while the people who know what they are doing constantly stay 2 steps ahead of you. Then you'll realize i was right all along and feel like a idiot for arguing with me about it.
#27 Oct 30 2010 at 10:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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#28StateAlchemist2, Posted: Oct 30 2010 at 10:24 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) @Deila:
#29 Oct 30 2010 at 10:25 AM Rating: Good
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StateAlchemist2 wrote:
I don't think you understand that reference.
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#30 Oct 30 2010 at 10:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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I have, actually. All of it. Flying Spaghetti Monster is awesome.

But you're asking someone to disprove your statement. Right here:

StateAlchemist2 wrote:
CupDeNoodles wrote:
Quote:
Fail...ANNNNNNND, fail. All elemental influences were beyond a reasonable doubt proven in FFXI, as was direction influece. The direction influence in FFXI was UNDENYABLY confirmed when SE explicity stated that they would not carry over the direction influence on crafting to FFXIV.


Again I ask that you provide a link to conclusive evidence confirming this.

Quote:
What rock have you been living under...as far as crafting influences in FFXIV...

EXTENSIVE STUDY OF DAY/HOUR/MOON/WEATHER EFFECTS ON CRAFTING.

Check that thread out, maybe you'll learn something.


All I see in that link are people throwing out guesses on random text they found in-game.

Quote:
Another possible input is the current moon phase. From the FFXIV Server Status site (http://www.ffxiv-status.com/), there are 8 moon phases, which change every 4 hours 40 minutes of real-world time.


The above was taken from "The Syndicate" website posted in the tread in the link you provided. They did no conclusive research on it, at least none that I've found.

Quote:
[ Crafting ]
Attributes: Works in conjunction with the type of tool used to affect synthesis quality
Elemental: Affects the occurrence rate of “god sends,” as well as synthesis stability


The above is from lodestone. That is the closest thing I found concerning elements affecting crafting. I'm assuming that means your characters elemental stats and not the element of the day/hour. Also take note they said nothing about moon phase.



Fine. Ignore it all, I could care less if your just another sub-par crafter.

But just for yucks...prove me wrong. Prove me wrong and I will PayPal you $100.00 US, no questions asked. You know why i can offer to do that? Because you can't. It's already proven to be the case. All the high level crafters know it, because we've all had to do a rediculous amount of the same synths to get where we are. Do we have time to parse every synth? No. We are too busy making all the gear and ingredients and items that only 2-3 people on a server can make, because we actually know what we are doing, and we do it the best.

Edited, Oct 30th 2010 8:26am by StateAlchemist2


I do believe that counts as an argument from ignorance. You've neglected the third option which clearly states: "We just don't have enough data yet to confirm."
#31 Oct 30 2010 at 10:30 AM Rating: Default
Logic states that the simplest explanation that covers all the facts is usually the best.

It is not Logical to explain away concurrent failure with no reason behind it.

However assuming an Elemental influence effecting the outcome is both simple and logical.
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#32 Oct 30 2010 at 10:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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Actually, I like to conclude that the random number generator is on the rag. Or that SE simply didn't code crafting right (as could possibly be evidenced by their upcoming change). Flip a coin.
#33 Oct 30 2010 at 10:33 AM Rating: Default
Deila, despite this conversation, and any conflicting views, I at least feel better knowing I am talking to someone that obviously has a brain, and knows how to use it. Thank you for turning this flame war, back into a discussion.
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#34 Oct 30 2010 at 10:36 AM Rating: Excellent
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I would be more than happy to continue the conversation, but duty calls... and its name is work, employment, and a few choice words I'll keep to myself ^^
#35 Oct 30 2010 at 10:38 AM Rating: Default
Deila wrote:
Actually, I like to conclude that the random number generator is on the rag. Or that SE simply didn't code crafting right (as could possibly be evidenced by their upcoming change). Flip a coin.


Is it possible that the RNG started steaking? Sure. I suggested that myself somewhere near the top of this thread.

Is it possible that SE didn't code the crafting formula correctly? Sure. However I find this less likely.

My issue wasn't over what was the one reason it happened, but the fact that when I give some helpful advice, from my personal experience, and research. Mr OP wants to start a flame war, and go on and on about how thinking that stuff is asinine, and this isn't FFXI... even though the same people made both games. He ignored the advice and went straight from the QQ to the BS.
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#36 Oct 30 2010 at 10:47 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm inclined to believe that the crafting system does have some underlying governing forces that aren't explicitly laid out for you. However, when you need to repair an item while you're out in the world, you can't wait for the optimal conditions to craft. You shouldn't have to.

Such a convoluted system should only govern the most important syntheses. If you really want to HQ that item but you're not as concerned about breaks because of low price materials (like a Panzer Mask+1 in XI), or you really need to make sure you don't lose your mats and you want an extra stable synth. Being victimized by a RNG attack while you're ranking up doesn't make the game any more fun or challenging. I could see it becoming a huge burden to large groups of players.


StateAlchemist2 wrote:
Do we have time to parse every synth? No. We are too busy making all the gear and ingredients and items that only 2-3 people on a server can make
That's funny. You'd think you'd just be sitting around waiting for the proper conditions most of the time.
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#37 Oct 30 2010 at 11:04 AM Rating: Default
CatPredator wrote:
However, when you need to repair an item while you're out in the world, you can't wait for the optimal conditions to craft. You shouldn't have to.


Agreed.

Quote:
Such a convoluted system should only govern the most important syntheses. If you really want to HQ that item but you're not as concerned about breaks because of low price materials (like a Panzer Mask+1 in XI), or you really need to make sure you don't lose your mats and you want an extra stable synth. Being victimized by a RNG attack while you're ranking up doesn't make the game any more fun or challenging. I could see it becoming a huge burden to large groups of players.


Also agreed.


Quote:
StateAlchemist2 wrote:
Do we have time to parse every synth? No. We are too busy making all the gear and ingredients and items that only 2-3 people on a server can make


That's funny. You'd think you'd just be sitting around waiting for the proper conditions most of the time.


Actually, I do. However, while I am waiting I usually go farm some materials I need on Botanist. Then when the elements are right, I synth on the fly, assuming I don't need support.
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#38 Oct 30 2010 at 12:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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Dear Statealchemist2,

I am a pretty high level crafter. I really enjoy it. I'm almost to rank 30.

You have no idea what the **** you're talking about, but feel free to continue to clap when Tinkerbell almost dies in the movie.
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#39 Oct 30 2010 at 1:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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StateAlchemist2 wrote:

Sorry to say, but you don't see noobs testing thoeries, you don't see noobs writing guides. You don't see noobs being one of the highest ranking people in thier class.

Am I an elitist? Yes, and darn proud of it. You don't become the best by being an ignorant noob. Try learning from someone with more experience than you obviously have instead of insulting the people who are obviously trying to help out the ones who don't know as much.


You're starting to cross a bit of a line here, I think. This forum is starting to fill up with people who never actually contribute anything substantial to the pool of knowledge about the game but are extremely happy to come around and pooh-pooh any idea or concept that isn't brought forward with a link to statistically significant testing. You know how it goes..."Those who can, do. Those who can't become critics." But you took the bait hook line and sinker and dun went and made a mess.

Your statement in your guide the elemental resistances influence success doesn't sit well with me. My elemental resistances for earth and wind (the two shard types I use the most of with armorer) are 92 and it wasn't until I start observing trends in the transition from success -> failure -> success that I finally reached a place where crafting beyond rank 15/20 regained some of its entertainment value. I didn't leap all over your statements and denounce them because unlike some people here, if I'm going to trash your theories I'm going to show up with evidence to the contrary or I'm going to at least try to keep it fair and objective. But at the same time, if this is to be your response to having your theories challenged, regardless of how much you think you can back up your statements, you're in for a very frustrating ride.

I've got one DoH class @ 27, one @ 22, two @ 18, and the rest in the 13-15 range (cooking @ 10). If you were to suggest to me that I lack the experience as a crafter to comment, I'd tell you to get your e-peen out of your mouth and give me evidence to support your claims instead of trying to discredit my point of view as being inexperienced. I haven't seen anything to suggest that there's another ramp up in terms of difficulty beyond rank 20, which gives me several thousand of my own synths to support my claims. And right now the jury is still out for me on elemental influences and direction and all that, which means I don't overtly denounce people who claim they have an influence but I'm still waiting for a practical application of this information that I can test on my own and observe the results.

Bad elitists always fall back on the, "I'm better than you so I'm right" argument. Don't be a bad elitist. Good elitists can bring a wealth of knowledge and understanding to gaming communities. Bad elitists just bring conflict.

And while we're here on the subject, rank =/= skill. Don't start playing that ******** game that you're one of the "best" at anything based on your rank. There's no metric currently established to determine who is the "best" at anything in FFXIV and there are few things more entertaining to me than to listen to these backwards ******* nutjobs in XIV talking about how they were the "best" <insert job here> on their FFXI server and "third best" in the entire game. It's ******* laughable. Just don't do it. Other MMOs provide empirical metrics that can be used to establish a "best". FFXI/FFXIV do not. They DO NOT. Don't even go there.
#40 Oct 30 2010 at 2:44 PM Rating: Good
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Also frustrating is not being able to attempt a repair on an item you've been crafting for the last 5 levels.
I can pump out Bronze Celatas all day long, but I can't even attempt to repair one. I popped out a few +1s and won't even wear the one I kept, because I can't repair the thing at rank 27 armorer.
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#41 Oct 30 2010 at 2:49 PM Rating: Good
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BartelX wrote:
Failing on gear repairs is the stupidest @#%^ing thing I've yet seen in this game. Clearly it's not bad enough that our weapons wear out after maybe 2 hours of use, but on top of that I now have to fail my repairs on it SIX TIMES IN A ROW? So that brass dagger that cost me 5k to make just cost me 7 more brass nuggets to repair... and no, my skill level is not too low. I'm a rank 19 goldsmith. The brass dagger is rank 19. There is absolutely no reason for this system. If you want to introduce more gil sinks, add in a **** AH, or chocobos, or airships, or some @#%^ING content to this husk of a game.


Uhh, I can't believe no one pointed this out, but brass dagger is on lodestone in the 21-30 range, and ZAM suggests it's 26. Additionally, people have observed that craft rank != repair rank, so chances are, you're just barely able to attempt the repair, and thats why the failures are so high.
#42 Oct 30 2010 at 3:09 PM Rating: Good
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Ilmoran wrote:
BartelX wrote:
Failing on gear repairs is the stupidest @#%^ing thing I've yet seen in this game. Clearly it's not bad enough that our weapons wear out after maybe 2 hours of use, but on top of that I now have to fail my repairs on it SIX TIMES IN A ROW? So that brass dagger that cost me 5k to make just cost me 7 more brass nuggets to repair... and no, my skill level is not too low. I'm a rank 19 goldsmith. The brass dagger is rank 19. There is absolutely no reason for this system. If you want to introduce more gil sinks, add in a **** AH, or chocobos, or airships, or some @#%^ING content to this husk of a game.


Uhh, I can't believe no one pointed this out, but brass dagger is on lodestone in the 21-30 range, and ZAM suggests it's 26. Additionally, people have observed that craft rank != repair rank, so chances are, you're just barely able to attempt the repair, and thats why the failures are so high.


Repair rank appears to be roughly equivalent to optimal rank. So if it takes a rank 27 DoH class to make a weapon that is listed as optimal for a rank 13 DoW class, the present theory is that a rank 13 DoH class should be able to repair it. I repaired my Brass Head Knife last night with rank 13 goldsmith. It shows as a rank 21-25 blacksmith synth for the final combine but because it's rank 13 and uses brass nuggets, it's a goldsmith repair that I was able to do...after one failed attempt.
#43 Oct 30 2010 at 3:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Aurelius wrote:
Repair rank appears to be roughly equivalent to optimal rank. So if it takes a rank 27 DoH class to make a weapon that is listed as optimal for a rank 13 DoW class, the present theory is that a rank 13 DoH class should be able to repair it.
I didn't know that, is this true? That easily explains my string of repair fails then. What it does not explain is why, at Carpentry 18, I was able to successfully repair an r28 bow at all. Shouldn't I have gotten the 'You decide to wait until you are more skilled to attempt this' message? Either that or 7 failures in a row, i guess...
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#44 Oct 30 2010 at 3:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
First off this isn't XI, secondly no one has done any conclusive research to justify the moon/element theory affecting crafting. So unless you can provide numbers that prove this theory I'd kindly ask that you not spread baseless rumors around. I'd hate to see this crap being spread around like it was in XI. This and the whole facing a certain direction nonsense.


You're one of those "The world if flat" type of people huh? The same could be said, unless you can prove these theories are false, I would kindly ask that you stop dismissing them as false.
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#45 Oct 30 2010 at 4:12 PM Rating: Good
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Aurelius wrote:
Ilmoran wrote:
BartelX wrote:
Failing on gear repairs is the stupidest @#%^ing thing I've yet seen in this game. Clearly it's not bad enough that our weapons wear out after maybe 2 hours of use, but on top of that I now have to fail my repairs on it SIX TIMES IN A ROW? So that brass dagger that cost me 5k to make just cost me 7 more brass nuggets to repair... and no, my skill level is not too low. I'm a rank 19 goldsmith. The brass dagger is rank 19. There is absolutely no reason for this system. If you want to introduce more gil sinks, add in a **** AH, or chocobos, or airships, or some @#%^ING content to this husk of a game.


Uhh, I can't believe no one pointed this out, but brass dagger is on lodestone in the 21-30 range, and ZAM suggests it's 26. Additionally, people have observed that craft rank != repair rank, so chances are, you're just barely able to attempt the repair, and thats why the failures are so high.


Repair rank appears to be roughly equivalent to optimal rank. So if it takes a rank 27 DoH class to make a weapon that is listed as optimal for a rank 13 DoW class, the present theory is that a rank 13 DoH class should be able to repair it. I repaired my Brass Head Knife last night with rank 13 goldsmith. It shows as a rank 21-25 blacksmith synth for the final combine but because it's rank 13 and uses brass nuggets, it's a goldsmith repair that I was able to do...after one failed attempt.


Ahh, I had not heard that theory before. Good to know; I'll have to pay attention to that and see if it seems to match what I'm able to repair. Thanks.
#46 Oct 30 2010 at 5:31 PM Rating: Decent
Aurelius wrote:
You're starting to cross a bit of a line here, I think. This forum is starting to fill up with people who never actually contribute anything substantial to the pool of knowledge about the game but are extremely happy to come around and pooh-pooh any idea or concept that isn't brought forward with a link to statistically significant testing. You know how it goes..."Those who can, do. Those who can't become critics." But you took the bait hook line and sinker and dun went and made a mess.


Your right, and I'm sorry. Some times narrow-minded people can really irritate me.

Quote:
Your statement in your guide the elemental resistances influence success doesn't sit well with me.

Yeah...me either, but I was doing a lot of Maple Sap > Maple Syrup synths and was getting frustrated by how unstable the elements would get. I realized that the amount of points I had put in Water was insignificant (I think it was at 20~) Also I had a lot of points set to Fire for whatever reason (farming maybe?)...after a few reassignments of points I balanced my points into fire/water/lightning (all ended up being 60+? I'm guesstimating, since its been awhile since this happened) while the synthesis was still difficult, I did notice at least a reduction of instability. (I was generally doing these synths on either Day Element: Fire or Water.

Quote:
And right now the jury is still out for me on elemental influences and direction and all that, which means I don't overtly denounce people who claim they have an influence but I'm still waiting for a practical application of this information that I can test on my own and observe the results.


...Let me phrase this carefully...
The only truly external modifiers I personally believe to effect crafting (based on information I have obtained, and from my own personal experience with a plethera of single element syntheses, and furthermore by extensive synthing of Maple Sap>Syrup) are the following:
Day Element, Hour Element, Moon Phase, Moon Polarity.
Direction is definitely not an issue in XIV.

I'm glad that at least your open-minded about it.



Edited, Oct 30th 2010 7:33pm by StateAlchemist2
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#47 Oct 30 2010 at 6:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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StateAlchemist2 wrote:
Check that thread out, maybe you'll learn something.
StateAlchemist2 wrote:
Fine. Ignore it all, I could care less if your just another sub-par crafter.

But just for yucks...prove me wrong. Prove me wrong and I will PayPal you $100.00 US, no questions asked. You know why i can offer to do that? Because you can't. It's already proven to be the case. All the high level crafters know it, because we've all had to do a rediculous amount of the same synths to get where we are. Do we have time to parse every synth? No. We are too busy making all the gear and ingredients and items that only 2-3 people on a server can make, because we actually know what we are doing, and we do it the best.

StateAlchemist2 wrote:
Everyone who is a serious crafter, knows this already. The problem is some people are casual crafters who just dont care if they are good at thier craft. Just because you dont synth enough to notice the effect doesnt mean it doesnt exist.

StateAlchemist2 wrote:
Sorry to say, but you don't see noobs testing thoeries, you don't see noobs writing guides. You don't see noobs being one of the highest ranking people in thier class.

Am I an elitist? Yes, and darn proud of it. You don't become the best by being an ignorant noob. Try learning from someone with more experience than you obviously have instead of insulting the people who are obviously trying to help out the ones who don't know as much.
...
And if you don't want to become a better player, then get the **** out of the forums.

StateAlchemist2 wrote:
Learn some japanese, use google, talk to the highest ranking crafters on your server. We already know whats going on. While people complain about failing synths and it being too hard or random, we are getting success where uninformed people would fail everytime.

StateAlchemist2 wrote:
Yes, because having several crafts all low level makes you a good crafter. Ranking up from 1-20 so mindless. You can ignore everything and standard spam your way there.

StateAlchemist2 wrote:
Yes, and you will continue to be a sub-par crafter, while the people who know what they are doing constantly stay 2 steps ahead of you. Then you'll realize i was right all along and feel like a idiot for arguing with me about it.


Wow, where does one even begin? Honestly, you should be ashamed without me saying a word after looking at your posts. To put it nicely, that's a lot of hubris in a little Lalafell package.

It's laughable how you think 1 to 20 is "mindless," yet somehow at 30 it's so different? It's not, and I'm not someone you can shake that weak "you're inexperianced" line at, as if anything I've crafted more than you have. Christ you're fond of yourself for synthing @#%^ing Maple Syrup.

Connected to that is your idea that you're somehow "the best," or on your way to being "the best." First of all, higher rank does not necessarily equate to being a better player. Secondly, as I've already alluded to, being around R30 at the moment is not as exclusive as you'd like to believe.

In summary, folks: Being a R20 crafter doesn't make you a "good crafter," but being R30 probably does. That, and StateAlchemist is the best!

This is the most pompous stuff I've read on the XIV forums so far, so congrats on that. Good luck with your elite Maple Sap there, killer.

Edited, Oct 30th 2010 8:39pm by Coyohma
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#48 Oct 30 2010 at 6:56 PM Rating: Good
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Timorith wrote:
Aurelius wrote:
Repair rank appears to be roughly equivalent to optimal rank. So if it takes a rank 27 DoH class to make a weapon that is listed as optimal for a rank 13 DoW class, the present theory is that a rank 13 DoH class should be able to repair it.
I didn't know that, is this true? That easily explains my string of repair fails then. What it does not explain is why, at Carpentry 18, I was able to successfully repair an r28 bow at all. Shouldn't I have gotten the 'You decide to wait until you are more skilled to attempt this' message? Either that or 7 failures in a row, i guess...


Because the theory is that a normal (i.e. no +s) item can be attempted by a DoH 10 ranks lower than its optimal rank. Each +1 increased the minimum requirement 5 ranks, so a +3 would need someone 5 ranks ABOVE the optimal rank.
#49 Oct 30 2010 at 7:20 PM Rating: Excellent
I wonder if the developers have gotten any message like:

"You are unable to repair the crafting system."

Ok sorry I'll shut up now.
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#50 Oct 30 2010 at 7:22 PM Rating: Good
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mattkujata wrote:
I wonder if the developers have gotten any message like:

"You are unable to repair the crafting system."

Ok sorry I'll shut up now.


Bravo, sir. Bravo.
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#51 Oct 30 2010 at 7:35 PM Rating: Default
@Coyohma

If you haven't noticed, we are back on topic...which is about the difficulty of repairing things. I don't care if you like me, but lets get back on track.

Edited, Oct 30th 2010 9:35pm by StateAlchemist2
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