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Crafting not worth the money?Follow

#1 Oct 29 2010 at 9:07 AM Rating: Decent
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(TLDR at the bottom)

So basically I don't have a ton of time to play. So little in fact that I'm pretty much just able to finish my leves before the reset. Now, I've been getting my crafting up excited to make some money by selling crafted items, but then I realized something. If I simply sell the shards that I use to craft the items instead of the items themselves, I will actually make more money. I see the benefit in gaining experience and rank from doing the crafting, but given my limited playtime the leves give me all the experience I could want anyway.

For example. Let's say I make a hempen cowl to sell (all prices listed are based on ffxiv.yg.com sale prices for the Karnak server):

The hempen cowl requires 1 hempen yarn, 6 earth shards, a hempen inner cowl, hempen outer cowl, and hempen hood.

To craft all of that from scratch, and make the cowl, I will need:

4 moko grass, 16 lightning shards, 72 earth shards, 6 wind shards

That is the matts required to make all of the hempen yarn and hempen cloth required to then make the pieces of the cowl which then makes the cowl.

Now, I can probably sell the cowl for what? About 15k maybe? But what could I sell all those shards for?

The value of wind shards is about 300 gil each, the rest about 200 each. That's 19400 gil, even more than I would get for that cowl. That's being generous too, since I'm assuming a 100% synth rate. The difference is I don't need to spend a ton of time crafting to sell those shards. In fact, I can use that time killing dodo's and get even more shards to sell. Sure, I miss out on all that experience but like I said, I barely have time to finish my crafting leves before each reset, so really it's no loss to me.

Then it got me thinking, maybe it's more worthwhile at higher ranks? But I also noticed the shard requirements become higher for higher ranked items so I wasn't sure. Here is the resource breakdown for a Cotton Cowl.

Estimated sale price for Cotton Cowl = 45,000 gil

Materials = 4 cotton bolls, 2 lightning crystals, 104 earth shards, 9 wind shards

For lightning crystals at 4k, 200 for earth shards, 300 for wind shards. That's 31500 gil.

So, it does appear that the item becomes worth more than the shards at this point. I guess my conclusion is that I'm going to sell my shards until I get my crafts to around rank 20 where I can actually make stuff that is worth selling. This is true for other professions as well. I thought it would be cool to mine a bunch of copper ore and make nuggets to sell, until I realized that the fire crystals I was using to make those nuggets were worth way more than the nuggets were.

TLDR: Unless the crafting leves don't give you enough rank exp at low ranks, there isn't much point in crafting items to sell. You will make more money at low ranks selling your shards rather than crafting with them.
#2 Oct 29 2010 at 9:12 AM Rating: Decent
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If you sell your shards until you get to around rank 20 when you can make stuff worth selling, you're going to be out of shards come rank 20 when you need them to make the stuff. You'd be surprised at how many shards you can go through when things like cotton cloth require 9 shards/synth (12 for canvas) and the quantity of materials required to make like items across tiers (ie. hempen cowl vs. cotton cowl) remain the same.

Unless you have a clear and present need for mountains of gil, you're better off saving your shards.
#3 Oct 29 2010 at 9:19 AM Rating: Decent
You can make gil as a lower ranked crafter by selling mats to higher ranked crafters. Bronze nuggets and ingots are a good example.

Edited, Oct 29th 2010 8:23am by SkinwalkerAsura
#4 Oct 29 2010 at 9:31 AM Rating: Good
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Aurelius wrote:
If you sell your shards until you get to around rank 20 when you can make stuff worth selling, you're going to be out of shards come rank 20 when you need them to make the stuff. You'd be surprised at how many shards you can go through when things like cotton cloth require 9 shards/synth (12 for canvas) and the quantity of materials required to make like items across tiers (ie. hempen cowl vs. cotton cowl) remain the same.

Unless you have a clear and present need for mountains of gil, you're better off saving your shards.


Exactly what Aurelius said. Shards get used up so quickly for crafting that if you attempt to level up your DoH job seriously, it would be smart to save your shards now. Crafting seems non-profitable at this point for precisely that reason. Shards are priced much much higher than what you would expect due to the high demand and the fact that everyone is pretty much doing what the OP is doing by balancing battlecraft and crafting classes. In the long run, when ppl start to gravitate more towards their dedicated classes you'll see more ppl selling shards who don't have a need for them and the prices will hopefully go down. 100gil+/shard is not very logical if you think about how many shards you will go through in a typical syn and how often they drop from mobs, but for the time being its the status quo.
#5 Oct 29 2010 at 9:31 AM Rating: Good
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The Glorious SkinwalkerAsura wrote:
You can make gil as a lower ranked crafter by selling mats to higher ranked crafters. Bronze nuggets and ingots are a good example.

Edited, Oct 29th 2010 8:23am by SkinwalkerAsura


Yeah, but I can make MORE gil by simply vendoring my ore and selling the crystals it takes to make the nuggets/ingots.

And to Aurelius, I agree that saving the crystals is an option. However, if it comes down to either:

1. Using shards to craft low rank items to sell. Or

2. Selling the shards and vendoring the matts for the items.

Then my argument is that option 2 is the way to go. I don't sell all of my shards, just some. I do save the majority with the future in mind. I also hang on to a lot of ore and other matts that I know I will eventually need. I'm not saying you have to get rid of your shards, simply that selling them is a more efficient use of them than making low rank items to sell. For ranking purposes I won't ever have enough free time to sit and grind crafting. I will likely be limited to the exp that the leves offer me, so the only matts I will need will be for items I intend to make and use, or make and sell.

Edited, Oct 29th 2010 11:34am by Cyrus11
#6 Oct 29 2010 at 9:38 AM Rating: Decent
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Cyrus11 wrote:
The Glorious SkinwalkerAsura wrote:
You can make gil as a lower ranked crafter by selling mats to higher ranked crafters. Bronze nuggets and ingots are a good example.

Edited, Oct 29th 2010 8:23am by SkinwalkerAsura


Yeah, but I can make MORE gil by simply vendoring my ore and selling the crystals it takes to make the nuggets/ingots.

And to Aurelius, I agree that saving the crystals is an option. However, if it comes down to either:

1. Using shards to craft low rank items to sell. Or

2. Selling the shards and vendoring the matts for the items.

Then my argument is that option 2 is the way to go. I don't sell all of my shards, just some. I do save the majority with the future in mind. I also hang on to a lot of ore and other matts that I know I will eventually need. But when my inventory starts overflowing I start vendoring a bit of it.


I vendor/drop stuff all the time, too, but I never sell shards. Ever. Unless you're toting around gear that you can't repair and that is spendy to repair at the NPC, I'm not sure what you feel you need the gil for. I haven't made anything to sell for a week and I'm still a minimum of 300k richer than I was last week because I earn gil but I don't spend it on anything but shards and the occasional hard-to-find material I come across the is reasonably priced, or tool I come across that is both reasonably priced and something I would gain immediate benefit from using. A full set of the local/regional leves you've been doing beyond about rank 10 or so will yield enough to cover repairs for most players through to the next reset...unless they're wearing above rank gear in which case they're shooting themselves in the foot.

If anything, I'll make items to skill up and then vendor those if I have no foreseeable use for them. Dodoskin Vamps are being amassed by the vendor at Camp Bearded Rock with the quickness thanks to me and those almost pay for the shards that went into making them. Shards = skill points waiting to be earned and believe me, you're going to be kicking yourself down the line for every single one you chose to sell unless your chosen crafting class never uses that kind of shard at all.
#7 Oct 29 2010 at 9:50 AM Rating: Good
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this is true in every game, because there are so many low level crafters. alot of players have taken several crafts to level 10, so it makes sense that along the way those items became near worthless or vendor price due to oversupply. Many players consider the loss from synthing a "skillup cost" at low levels.

Edited, Oct 29th 2010 11:50am by KujaKoF
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#8 Oct 29 2010 at 9:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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Factor 1: Unfortunately for you, your casualness is the reason behind this. You're part of the average player stock, while you can craft these items; so can hundreds of other players on your server, stifling any value these craftable items have as anyone who wanted it has already obtained it. Furthermore, if you really are casual then by the time you get 20 through cheap means then so will everyone else and the cycle repeats itself.

Factor 2: You have to ask yourself, who is buying the majority of these shards? Guys cranking out hundreds of synths a day; selling end products at marked up prices synth because they are infront of the curve and using that money to buy more shards to stay ahead. The way the synths are designed, to create an item you usually need make reagents that are higher level than the actual synth, gives these high level crafters an unfair edge over the rest of the population. They are the only ones who can supply desirable gear for the average player and they will do so in mass until demand has dropped. Meanwhile the average crafter can only supply gear that is below the average level of the playerbase, which supply has far exceeded demand.

Unless they find some niche market, a casual crafter will find it extremely difficult making huge chunks of gil and will likely be the most gil deprived compared to every other type of player (considering they use up their own shards, which is the source of money for other players.)

Some casual friendly game right? But hey, atleast you can repair your own stuff (if you chose the right craft that is.)
#9 Oct 29 2010 at 9:59 AM Rating: Good
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Cyrus11 wrote:


Yeah, but I can make MORE gil by simply vendoring my ore and selling the crystals it takes to make the nuggets/ingots.

And to Aurelius, I agree that saving the crystals is an option. However, if it comes down to either:

1. Using shards to craft low rank items to sell. Or

2. Selling the shards and vendoring the matts for the items.

Then my argument is that option 2 is the way to go. I don't sell all of my shards, just some. I do save the majority with the future in mind. I also hang on to a lot of ore and other matts that I know I will eventually need. I'm not saying you have to get rid of your shards, simply that selling them is a more efficient use of them than making low rank items to sell. For ranking purposes I won't ever have enough free time to sit and grind crafting. I will likely be limited to the exp that the leves offer me, so the only matts I will need will be for items I intend to make and use, or make and sell.

Edited, Oct 29th 2010 11:34am by Cyrus11


This completely depends on your level.

You may make more gil now not making anything, but you will lose what you might have gained on repair costs and you lose the ability to work the higher rank items, which is still more than worth the cost from reasonable leveling (i.e. not being insane and buying stuff regardless of the cost) at the moment. Better to turn them into components you need to repair at the very least--then you take a small loss to avoid insane repair costs.

Edited, Oct 29th 2010 12:01pm by Ravashack
#10 Oct 29 2010 at 10:08 AM Rating: Good
Cyrus11 wrote:
The Glorious SkinwalkerAsura wrote:
You can make gil as a lower ranked crafter by selling mats to higher ranked crafters. Bronze nuggets and ingots are a good example.

Edited, Oct 29th 2010 8:23am by SkinwalkerAsura


Yeah, but I can make MORE gil by simply vendoring my ore and selling the crystals it takes to make the nuggets/ingots.

And to Aurelius, I agree that saving the crystals is an option. However, if it comes down to either:

1. Using shards to craft low rank items to sell. Or

2. Selling the shards and vendoring the matts for the items.

Then my argument is that option 2 is the way to go. I don't sell all of my shards, just some. I do save the majority with the future in mind. I also hang on to a lot of ore and other matts that I know I will eventually need. I'm not saying you have to get rid of your shards, simply that selling them is a more efficient use of them than making low rank items to sell. For ranking purposes I won't ever have enough free time to sit and grind crafting. I will likely be limited to the exp that the leves offer me, so the only matts I will need will be for items I intend to make and use, or make and sell.

Edited, Oct 29th 2010 11:34am by Cyrus11


My suggestion is based on the idea that you want to rank a craft. You get SP and make gil by selling items as opposed to just gil vendoring/selling shards. If you're never going to be able to grind on a craft then why not just sell shards?

Quote:
Factor 1: Unfortunately for you, your casualness is the reason behind this. You're part of the average player stock, while you can craft these items; so can hundreds of other players on your server, stifling any value these craftable items have as anyone who wanted it has already obtained it. Furthermore, if you really are casual then by the time you get 20 through cheap means then so will everyone else and the cycle repeats itself.

Factor 2: You have to ask yourself, who is buying the majority of these shards? Guys cranking out hundreds of synths a day; selling end products at marked up prices synth because they are infront of the curve and using that money to buy more shards to stay ahead. The way the synths are designed, to create an item you usually need make reagents that are higher level than the actual synth, gives these high level crafters an unfair edge over the rest of the population. They are the only ones who can supply desirable gear for the average player and they will do so in mass until demand has dropped. Meanwhile the average crafter can only supply gear that is below the average level of the playerbase, which supply has far exceeded demand.

Unless they find some niche market, a casual crafter will find it extremely difficult making huge chunks of gil and will likely be the most gil deprived compared to every other type of player (considering they use up their own shards, which is the source of money for other players.)


This is great explanation.
#11 Oct 29 2010 at 10:14 AM Rating: Decent
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sylph19 wrote:
Factor 1: Unfortunately for you, your casualness is the reason behind this. You're part of the average player stock, while you can craft these items; so can hundreds of other players on your server, stifling any value these craftable items have as anyone who wanted it has already obtained it. Furthermore, if you really are casual then by the time you get 20 through cheap means then so will everyone else and the cycle repeats itself.

Factor 2: You have to ask yourself, who is buying the majority of these shards? Guys cranking out hundreds of synths a day; selling end products at marked up prices synth because they are infront of the curve and using that money to buy more shards to stay ahead. The way the synths are designed, to create an item you usually need make reagents that are higher level than the actual synth, gives these high level crafters an unfair edge over the rest of the population. They are the only ones who can supply desirable gear for the average player and they will do so in mass until demand has dropped. Meanwhile the average crafter can only supply gear that is below the average level of the playerbase, which supply has far exceeded demand.

Unless they find some niche market, a casual crafter will find it extremely difficult making huge chunks of gil and will likely be the most gil deprived compared to every other type of player (considering they use up their own shards, which is the source of money for other players.)

Some casual friendly game right? But hey, atleast you can repair your own stuff (if you chose the right craft that is.)


Oh, I entirely agree, except that it isn't unfortunate for me. I don't have the time to commit to being at the head of the crafting pack, so I'm not even going to bother trying. That being said, crafting becomes mostly worthless to me aside from repairs and physical exp. Since I'm well below the top of the ranks the gear I need is all available in mass quanitity in the market wards, and the stuff I am able to make is in such high supply and little demand that it isn't worth making.

I don't really need to craft myself gear because higher rank players are doing it for me. So, I just need money to buy the gear, and since crafting is mostly worthless to me, I might as well sell those shards to afford it. It's a win/win really. The crafters get my shards and I get their gear.

I have maybe 3 hours a day to play. By the time I log on, play with my bazaar a bit, do half of my crafting leves at city 1, then run to a camp to do my battle/fieldcraft leves at city 1, then run to city 2 to do the same, run back to town to do my repairs, maybe play with my bazaar a little more, that's all I have time for. Usually I don't get all of that done in a day, because I end up doing something random with my linkshell or who knows what else. At no point am I going to have the time to sit there and burn through hundreds and hundreds of shards while I spam crafts.
#12 Oct 29 2010 at 12:44 PM Rating: Decent
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My answer? sale now.... the price of shards will not remain high. Level Alc and make your own shards/crystals. I would LOVE to zoom a craft to 50 but its not going to happen. And just like everying else shards have a high price. You could in theory take a craft to 50 never spending a single gil. I got alc to 19 free, but I'm in not rush to cap. If the price of shards/crystals start to tank, your time to make money is gone. Just like all the high level crafted gear will/is dropping in price. If your only goal is to make money sale. Everyone is doing it. Your window will be short. I mean really, its just like when a new syn came out in FFXI or a new NM drop. The first month it will be super inflated, later......dirt cheap. Now having said all that.... the streets are littered with gil. Which ever you do I dont see how you could go wrong.
#13 Oct 29 2010 at 1:17 PM Rating: Good
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Odd. By running some napkin math, I can make dodoskin harness and sell them at NPC and still come out ahead of my shard's cost, including the price of everything I have to buy.

I do produce most parts by myself and have built up an impressive stock of skins, leathers and nuggets, so my only costs are willow chips at the vendor.

My issue with crafting isn't that my shards are worth more to other crafters, it's that with the amount of stuff I have to make, there's no way I can price low enough for them to sell; there just isn't any demand for hundreds of dodoskin harnesses on the market right now. Heck, I'm only bazaaring my +1 ones in hopes that people will decide to pay a bit more in order to save on repairs or something.
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#14 Oct 29 2010 at 2:38 PM Rating: Good
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yeah I am vendoring all of my jewelry that my goldsmith is making. I won't put it on the bazaar unless it goes HQ...

That said my crafting doesn't really cost me much because I refuse to spend much on it. I'm lucky that my main craft is alchemist so get a lot of the mats for free or cheap without a lot of effort. Even though really I am not making money from crafting very much anymore, I would pretty much NEVER sell my shards. If I want 15K I am going to do a leve - I'm not going to sell 100 shards for 15K - it is WAY easier to get gil than shards. Doing a leve for 15K takes me like 10 minutes (30 minutes with travel time) - getting 100 shards of a specific type takes waaay longer.

I also just enjoy crafting because it is easy to progress in.

That said if you never ever want to level a craft, by all means - sell your shards. If I was you though I wouldn't do that. You are even better off using them like a currency - heck they stack to 9999 so it isn't like you will run out of space for them anytime soon. You can probably get good deals on crafted stuff by buying it directly with shards. A lot of crafters I know would be totally willing to sell you things for shards - at better than the going shard prices.
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#15 Oct 29 2010 at 9:37 PM Rating: Good
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Docent42 wrote:
Odd. By running some napkin math, I can make dodoskin harness and sell them at NPC and still come out ahead of my shard's cost, including the price of everything I have to buy.

I do produce most parts by myself and have built up an impressive stock of skins, leathers and nuggets, so my only costs are willow chips at the vendor.

My issue with crafting isn't that my shards are worth more to other crafters, it's that with the amount of stuff I have to make, there's no way I can price low enough for them to sell; there just isn't any demand for hundreds of dodoskin harnesses on the market right now. Heck, I'm only bazaaring my +1 ones in hopes that people will decide to pay a bit more in order to save on repairs or something.



sad thing is there's some speculation that +1-3's are, while having more durability, significantly harder to repair.
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#16 Oct 29 2010 at 10:20 PM Rating: Good
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Do you know why crafting seems not worth it? It's because everyone think crafting worth it, that it makes a quick buck, that everyone took it upon themselves to craft and material demand is far more higher than final product demand. As always, only the top people will benefit from this, while the lower level will struggle and eventually give up (hopefully, if we don't, we will see material price skyrocket even more).

You should only focus on making gears for your LS/friends, it will become worth it. Stop thinking crafting is an easy way to make gil, it's not until people give up on this idea, unless you reach r50 while majority still struggle at r20.
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#17 Oct 29 2010 at 10:23 PM Rating: Good
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mistrik wrote:

sad thing is there's some speculation that +1-3's are, while having more durability, significantly harder to repair.


It isn't speculation it is true... that said, if you repair at NPC a lot the +1-3 will help your weapon last longer
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#18 Oct 29 2010 at 10:37 PM Rating: Good
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I don't know if you noticed, but gil pretty much grows on trees right now. I don't think crafting was intended to make money. It was intended to replace it. I think it's meant to be easy enough, yet "fun" enough for everyone to do. They want people to craft their own items, and items for LS mates. I think they tried to make a game where bartering is more important than buying/selling. I kind of like the idea.

Edit: If you think about it, there is no better anti RMT measure than making currency worthless.

Edited, Oct 30th 2010 12:38am by Teneleven
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#19 Oct 29 2010 at 10:43 PM Rating: Good
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Currency is really only important for trading to NPCs and they have such a limited selection it is pretty pointless. I mean, I could go and buy flax at 15K each - but why would I?
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#20 Oct 29 2010 at 10:47 PM Rating: Good
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Olorinus the Vile wrote:
Currency is really only important for trading to NPCs and they have such a limited selection it is pretty pointless. I mean, I could go and buy flax at 15K each - but why would I?

Exactly. They give you a use for gil, but it's not really important. Maybe that will change, but i hope not. Shards are the new currency pretty much, and we can manipulate what shards we get. It takes a lot of pressure off players. Once SE adds in some real content, it will be nice to be able to do the content, without farming for 2 months first.
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#21 Oct 29 2010 at 10:54 PM Rating: Good
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Teneleven wrote:
Olorinus the Vile wrote:
Currency is really only important for trading to NPCs and they have such a limited selection it is pretty pointless. I mean, I could go and buy flax at 15K each - but why would I?

Exactly. They give you a use for gil, but it's not really important. Maybe that will change, but i hope not. Shards are the new currency pretty much, and we can manipulate what shards we get. It takes a lot of pressure off players. Once SE adds in some real content, it will be nice to be able to do the content, without farming for 2 months first.


Amen. I remember having to farm and farm and farm for money to buy equipment.

I'm not going to pretend that there is no grind in FFXIV because it isn't true in the slightest... however, the game is different - and farming itself is more rewarding - I mean the DoL classes prove that - period. You gain levels in your gathering skill. You unlock quests by gathering - THIS IS INNOVATIVE and I like it.

Getting special quests as a crafter is also cool. I never felt attached to crafting in XI - In FFXI my highest ranked class is alchemist - just 1 rank over conjurer - and part of that is the ease in leveling as well - but I've finished the class quest for alchemist - and really ENJOYED it - it involved making a special item - and had cutscenes that related to my main quest storyline and made things more clear. TBH I am more excited about THM 20 quest than my CON 20 quest (partially started) if only because it is part of my home city storyline.
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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#22 Oct 30 2010 at 3:14 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Edit: If you think about it, there is no better anti RMT measure than making currency worthless.


Have to disagree with you there, if Gil becomes worthless then the only change will be RMT selling gear and Items instead. Diablo II's gold is essentially pointless to pick up, but RMT still thrives there selling Unique weapons, charms and armor.

We could come to the point that, instead of having IGN selling 100 million gil for X money - they are selling Excalibur 2 for X money.
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#23 Oct 30 2010 at 3:48 AM Rating: Decent
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use leves to skillup crafting it doesnt use your shards
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