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#1 Oct 29 2010 at 9:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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My apologies in advance, as this is an altered/expanded post that I made on a different, dying thread. It is also a wall of text that you are not obligated to read. That being said, I welcome comments on my observations, but especially counterpoints. It seems that the forums have been generally more entertaining to me than playing the game itself.

I'd like to address something that has been bandied about in other threads from time to time, which is, why do some people continue to play a game past the point where the game stopped being fun, especially as it applies to this game. Please do not misinterpret this to mean that I am under the assumption that no one finds FFXIV fun, therefore those still playing must be using some bad excuse to continue. I am merely exploring the phenomena which affects every MMO: the sinking realization that the game has run its course, and not as fun as it first was. Regrettably, this point has hit very early for a good portion of FFXIV players. I began to ask myself, why is it that the classic reasons that people stick with an MMO are failing to apply with this game, and why so early? My conclusion is that this game does its best to ***** up every single one of them, and even some of us that are prone to carrying on are second-guessing ourselves.

The first reason people stick around an MMO long past the point that it remains fun is in the relationships that you forge with other players. It has been pointed out long, long ago that at its core, MMOs are glorified chatrooms. The funny thing here is, this aspect of keeping your player base is so very hard to ***** up, yet Square-Enix came very close to doing it. You can't chat well while fighting. You can't chat well while crafting. Even basic commands like replying to a tell were botched at release. Party and Shell functions are half-baked and non-intuitive. Interpersonal relationships in an MMO are so important to an MMO's enjoyment, and in fact, could arguably be the most addictive factor to MMOs in general. How it could be handled so incompetently by a veteran team of game designers, I can't even fathom.

The second reason people may stick around is through brand loyalty. Square and Enix both have given many people, including myself, great enjoyment for decades. I'm the type of person who likes to reward companies for taking care of their customers, a sentiment that goes well beyond gaming. Unfortunately, Square-Enix squandered this, as well. On an anti-FFXIV video I saw on on Youtube, someone suggested through a comment that Squeenix should actively ask for feedback from the player base and actually have a form in-game to provide suggestions. They did, I responded, it was called Beta testing. Outwardly they thanked the testers for the constructive criticism, but actions speak louder than words, and they clearly dismissed the vast majority of it. You could smell the hubris all the way from Tokyo.

It was like watching an impending car wreck on an icy road where there's a few hundred feet until the collision. XII and XIII was met with some skepticism and head-shaking by some with questions regarding the company's direction, to be sure, but some of us appreciated those titles even if they weren't our favorites. Conversely, XIV was met with resounding and widespread derision (or *ahem* silence). I for one don't look at the Square-Enix brand like I used to. I feel like I got burned badly purchasing this one, and this will affect my decisions to buy their products going forward.

The third reason people stick around is the ol' carrot in front of the horse/donkey trick. The carrots in MMOs and action-RPG games alike are new abilities, new equipment, and unlocking new challenges. Square drops the ball here, too. There is no carrot for equipment whatsoever. There's very little in the way of unique drops to hunt, and as for the crafted stuff which is close to 100% of what's available to us at the moment, you can wear anything at all at level one. Sure it breaks more quickly and generally isn't as effective, but that's completely inconsequential. It still kills your incentive to level up as far as equipment goes.

As far as unlocking new content... well what new content is there. One storyline that you continue every five or ten levels. More quests that open once you grind twenty levels in your job that don't feel epic at all - like the Pugilist quest where instead of using your martial arts skills you play door-to-door bill collector and pick up after some douchebag that tosses his money all over the floor and has you retrieve it like the lapdog that you are. Even getting killed by a fricking deer sneezing on me felt more heroic than that.

All of this is indicative to why people are having to dig so deep to find reasons to stay, why there have been so many posters who are turning on each other over a new game, and why piling on is breeding more piling on. My answer is that you shouldn't blame each other. You can just thank Square.

I'm trying to stick around, to make the best of it, to get my two month's worth. But I feel like I'm trying to stick to a wall that's greased with Crisco, buffeted by hurricane winds, and defended by the Kaboom! guy dropping bombs from above. Square-Enix needs to go back and review why MMOs got popular in the first place, rather than trying to shoehorn in ideas just because they're different.


Edited-in tl;dr version: MMOs are addictive for established reasons, and Square overlooked them while trying to be original.

Edited, Oct 29th 2010 11:54am by Shassa
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#2 Oct 29 2010 at 9:50 AM Rating: Default
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I'm glad you got that off your chest.

Have a wonderful Halloween weekend!
#3 Oct 29 2010 at 9:57 AM Rating: Decent
I think that it's good that there is not more to do at the moment. I have too much to do, between Alchemy/Botany/Carpentry/Culinarian to worry about when my next storyline quest will be available. There is plenty of years ahead for FFXIV. No reason to beat the game in 2 months. Endgame may be fun, but not when you play Endgame for 5 years. Controlling the release of story content over time, gives everyone plenty of opportunity to rank up multiple classes, or craft, or farm. Allows you to get comfortable with your job. Try out new ideas and experiment with PT setups, and skill up locations.

And don't forget, SE already announced a major content update. Final Fantasy has never been about instant gratification, in my personal opinion. In FFXI it took forever to do anything, and the same applies in FFXIV.

If patience is not your virtue, then I could not recommend FFXIV to you. Me? I am content to keep ranking up my DoH/L classes and wait the inevitable arrival of future content updates.
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#4 Oct 29 2010 at 10:00 AM Rating: Excellent
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I agree with most of what you said, but someone needs to make a post intelligently tying all of this back to SE's philosophy behind FFXIV. I think there would be alot of eye opening discoveries.

For instance, let's list the amount of game design decisions that revolve completely around stopping RMT and botters. How far is the line drawn over on the side of stopping these guys? From what I've seen, major major game changes were made from FFXI (game-breaking changes) simply to combat RMT and botters. This is why feedback from beta appears not to have been taken seriously.
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#5 Oct 29 2010 at 10:08 AM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah, sorry guys. I know that it's a retread that went too long, and the negative ratings for the post are justified. I'm just really disappointed, and was waiting on this game for a long time. Clearly, I need to disinvest myself from this.

Sorry again.
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#6 Oct 29 2010 at 10:11 AM Rating: Decent
rikkuotaku wrote:
For instance, let's list the amount of game design decisions that revolve completely around stopping RMT and botters. How far is the line drawn over on the side of stopping these guys? From what I've seen, major major game changes were made from FFXI (game-breaking changes) simply to combat RMT and botters. This is why feedback from beta appears not to have been taken seriously.


There is only one thing SE would have to do to stop RMT. Sell the gil themselves. (lol...)

Seriously, though. I can see what they we're trying to do. THey wanted to make this game as fair as they could to everyone, hence the fatigue system to balanced hardcore gamers and casual players, and the extensive RMT countermeasures to balance control of the market, and to help preserve an equality between people that can afford/are willing to buy from RMT, and thse who disapprove of it, or want to and just have no money.

While I disagree with SE's goal, it's not my game, so I don't make the rules. Do I think that people with an endless amount of time to play FFXIV should be restricted in SP/XP gains, just to make the casual players, who only half-!@# play the game? No. Do I think that every single aspect of the game should have been drastically changed from FFXI to try and stop people from selling gil to other people? No. There will always be RMT, because there will always be a way of making Gil. And when you can make gil, you can sell it. And there will always be someone with the money to buy it, regardless the price.
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#7 Oct 29 2010 at 10:17 AM Rating: Decent
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Just cause I have a few minutes before my lunch break here at work.. I figured I’ll just offer my 2 cents. As the standard disclaimers go, I’m only providing my reasons, not anyone else’s.

Quote:
Please do not misinterpret this to mean that I am under the assumption that no one finds FFXIV fun, therefore those still playing must be using some bad excuse to continue.

I guess I am in that subset where I do still find fun in this game. But not only the game, but the people I play with. I play with both real life friends of mine, and my old FF11 LS, which I haven’t really gamed with since ~3-4 years ago, so it’s nice to see them all again.

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My conclusion is that this game does its best to ***** up every single one of them, and even some of us that are prone to carrying on are second-guessing ourselves.

I don’t think I’m as critical about this game as many others. I think part of it is due to the “brand name” of SquareEnix, the criticisms behind this game has been blown out of the water. In the years between my quitting of FF11, and before FF14 launch, I looked for other MMOs to keep myself occupied. From big name titles like WoW and Aion, to other little known MMOs that I can’t even remember how to spell (or pronunciate), I’ve played and tried MANY games. And wow, there are many other MMOs out there that are AWFUL too, but no one ever hears about how bad those games sucked either. Yes, SE dropped the ball pretty badly, but this is not the worse MMO I’ve ever played by far :D

Quote:

The first reason people stick around an MMO long past the point that it remains fun is in the relationships that you forge with other players.

I do agree with that. I myself mentioned above that I enjoy playing w/ my friends and LS mates.

Quote:

The funny thing here is, this aspect of keeping your player base is so very hard to ***** up, yet Square-Enix came very close to doing it. You can't chat well while fighting. You can't chat well while crafting. Even basic commands like replying to a tell were botched at release. Party and Shell functions are half-baked and non-intuitive. Interpersonal relationships in an MMO are so important to an MMO's enjoyment, and in fact, could arguably be the most addictive factor to MMOs in general. How it could be handled so incompetently by a veteran team of game designers, I can't even fathom.

Heh, I was a bit annoyed at the inability to chat while crafting myself for a while – thank god they fixed that. And wait, why can’t I chat while fighting? Replying to a tell was botched at release? I don’t remember issues with that… considering you still can’t easy reply to a tell, haha. But that’s why I abuse /chatmodes to keep 1 person active, and ctrl-r to keep another active. Beyond that, everyone I talk to is typically in my LS :D

I’m not sure why party and shell functions are half-baked and non-intuitive. I would instead say that the party system is there, but I wish the party search option was better. But hey, you click on someone, and you invite them. Seems pretty intuitive to me. Shell functions – I wish you didn’t have to stand next to someone to hand a pearl (or lol, to break their pearl). What is nice is if you have multiple shells, you can listen in to all of them at the same time! Granted you have to change shells to reply… but in 11, you couldn’t listen to all your shells at the same time! (At least at the time I quit, no idea what patches they did afterwards).

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…. They did, I responded, it was called Beta testing. Outwardly they thanked the testers for the constructive criticism, but actions speak louder than words, and they clearly dismissed the vast majority of it.

Ok so this is completely speculative and my own opinion.. but this is what I think happened. They didn’t dismiss it. You mention earlier that it’s a group of experienced game designers, and I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt here too and say that they didn’t ignore all the issues. More likely, they did record it, but the list is just too big for them to address in time.

In time for what though? Why did they launch the game if it wasn’t ready? My own personal opinion (abridged) is because the marketing folks made them. Yeah you got the developers who want to release a better product, but the other folks want to start seeing the $$$ coming in. Movies, for example, often adjust their release time to not launch at the same time as other potential blockbusters. Perhaps FF14 was trying to launch before WoW: Cataclysm (which initially was expected out early November). Along with that, they probably wanted a product out before the Christmas season – that’s always a good market to target.

The question of whether or not it was the right decision is now a moot point… everything in hindsight provides a different perspective. But I can see several strong reasons why they did release what many call an “unfinished product.”

On a complete side note.. I am a developer too. And when I release a product, the first thing I want to do is take nice long vacation because I was probably just worked to death the months before launch :D And if I wasn’t afraid of being fired, I probably would! But instead I’m going to keep working after launch to fix all the bugs my users are telling me about, haha. But you know… a better product is nice and all for my end users, but I’m not really seeing any of the extra bucks myself… and I’m tired of working the past 3-4 months worth of weekends, I just want a break :D

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I feel like I got burned badly purchasing this one, and this will affect my decisions to buy their products going forward.

Once again, maybe I just have a significantly higher tolerance, cause FF14’s success (or lack thereof) won’t impact any of my future SE game purchasing decisions. Granted the brand on a game gets me to look, but the brand doesn’t get me to buy.

Quote:
The carrots in MMOs and action-RPG games alike are new abilities, new equipment, and unlocking new challenges. Square drops the ball here, too. There is no carrot for equipment whatsoever.

Wait, the game’s been barely out for a month. What’s all this lack of new stuff…. It’s been a month! And from what I’ve read on other forums, there’s quite a bit of stuff in the game already, just not released. Didn’t FFXIVCORE have some data mining thing of other classes and abilities and such that are already in the game files? And you’re always running around finding pathways with rocks in your path. But.. we’re a month in!


…. And sorry, it’s lunch time and I’m too hungry to finish responding to the rest, haha.

Thanks for the distraction =)
#8 Oct 29 2010 at 10:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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StateAlchemist2 wrote:
rikkuotaku wrote:
For instance, let's list the amount of game design decisions that revolve completely around stopping RMT and botters.


Seriously, though. I can see what they we're trying to do.


Me too, but obviously (and you seem to agree) its not working.... AT ALL. So the question is are they going to keep trying to hold onto their philosophy and tweak the ideals they have in place while we all suffer and people keep leaving? Or are they going to wake up and realize that waiting 5 seconds between button presses, even though it might stop the RMT, IS NOT FUN.

Edited, Oct 29th 2010 12:25pm by rikkuotaku
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#9 Oct 29 2010 at 10:30 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Please do not misinterpret this to mean that I am under the assumption that no one finds FFXIV fun, therefore those still playing must be using some bad excuse to continue.
I love the use of the words "bad excuse" you added in there. Seriously, did you think someone wouldn't notice? Some of us don't need, as you say, "bad excuses" because there are things to be enjoyed in the game. I'm sorry you feel there is no merit what so ever to the game, and im sure you'll find another MMO to play in due time.

Quote:
MMOs are addictive for established reasons, and Square overlooked them while trying to be original.
I'd be interested to know what those "established reasons" are. There are a lot of MMO's out there, and each one has a different way to play it.

Guild Wars, for example, has a maximum level of 20 so level grinding is almost non-existent as this can be reached in a matter of days.

City of Heroes mixes party-size instanced combat areas with a number of massively multiplayer zones with varying missions for teams.

Perfect World has an entirely open game world including powerful 'boss' monsters, but instanced dungeons where players team up to battle the majority of quest bosses.

Final Fantasy XI has multiplayer 'zones' but instanced boss areas for parties only.

So throw away any preconceptions you might have as there are a wide variety of online MMO games and they all play in different ways. If FFXIV fails anywhere, it's not at the concept level. Being able to instantly swap to a large variety of classes, swap skills between them and effectively build your own class from it is something no other MMO has attempted with great success, and FFXIV handles it very well.

Yes, the game has bugs, yes there are issues regarding the interface or the lack of an auction house. Yes, we know the game lacks content (newsflash, so did virtually every MMO on release). Give it time and this game will blossom. Regrettably they released it too early to compete with the upcoming MMO's and now they're paying for that mistake. Does that make it a bad game? Not necessarily, it just needs a bit more polish than some of the others.

Don't try to make it sound like anyone who enjoys this game is using "bad excuses" or really has an ulterior motive for doing so. There is genuine enjoyment to be had playing this game, and if that's not the case for you, then why continue posting on a forum dedicated to the game?
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#10 Oct 29 2010 at 10:37 AM Rating: Decent
I think some of the problems arise due to the fact that you have players coming from other MMOs to play FFXIV and they are used to the game having an endless amount of content.

FFXI players can tell you (at least the ones around from the beginning) that there was a lot of problems with FFXI to begin with. Not much content either.

I don't know how many wow players are on FFXIV but I played wow before (briefly), and all it seemed like was rush to max level (in a VERY short amount of time) and then spend years getting your uber1337pwnage gear.

Don't get me wrong, that is really the goal of any MMO I have played, BUT at least SE puts the limiters in. I don't want my MMO to be over before it began. Let the story slowly unfold...give me ample time to rank up my crafting classes, explore the world, kill monsters, experiment with cross-classing abilities, parting...these are the true gems of FFXIV. It's just sad that they are dulled by the sheen of dust settled over them by the overwhelming drone of complaints.

I am happy that FFXIV is not an easy ride to Rank 50. I am happy that there isn't a plethera of NPC quests, and storyline missions. The anticipation of whats to come has always been the reason for me to play Final Fantasy. In fact, I didn't start tiring of FFXI until I hit endgame. THen it just seemed boring. Yes I got the cookie cutter gear that EVERYONE wanted, but it wasn't the rewards offered at the end of the long road to endgame that made me happy to be a part of FFXI. It was the journey that got me there.

So I beseech you SE...fix the bugs, give the naysayers enough to be happy, but don't ruin the journey. I look forward to the years I will play this game, and will be sad to see them come to an end.
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#11 Oct 29 2010 at 10:37 AM Rating: Good
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Glitterhands wrote:

Don't try to make it sound like anyone who enjoys this game is using "bad excuses" or really has an ulterior motive for doing so. There is genuine enjoyment to be had playing this game....


Yes he probably should have said, "why do some people continue to play a game past the point where the game stopped being fun FOR THEM"

But, "Bad Excuses" is clearly directed at the people who continue to play even though they are not having fun anymore. He's simply expounding on those reasons because he found himself becoming one of those people.

If you aren't, then fine move along, go back to enjoying the heck out of FFXIV.
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#12 Oct 29 2010 at 12:18 PM Rating: Decent
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StateAlchemist2 wrote:

it's not my game, so I don't make the rules.


Actually, it is your game since not only did you spend money on the CD's, but you're also paying per month for the game.

So customers like us should be allowed some leeway to help direct some of the goals within the game through suggestions :)

Just my opinion.

Edited, Oct 29th 2010 2:20pm by OhimeKowai
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#13 Oct 29 2010 at 12:32 PM Rating: Good
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StateAlchemist2 wrote:
I don't know how many wow players are on FFXIV but I played wow before (briefly), and all it seemed like was rush to max level (in a VERY short amount of time) and then spend years getting your uber1337pwnage gear.


Uh, like FFXI was any different?

People need to stop trying to view FFXI as some never-before heralded epitome of greatness and see what it really was -- a barebones copy of Everquest with even more grind added.

FFXI cutscenes are no different than EQ/WoW/LotRO's questlines. You have the story rammed down your throats like good little beggars but it's the same stuff. The only thing different between the two games is that FFXI tries to force people to like the generic storylines they put out there and the above mentioned three understand that some people just don't give a **** about the story and only want the carrot at the end. (My roommate is one of those; I prefer good stories, but FFXI wasn't stellar writing here).

What's left? You had a long, boring grind to max level where you then spent time grinding either endgame gear in a linkshell/guild, items to get quasi-endgame gear made, or money to buy said AH gear. In between you either finished up some trivial quests or leveled some tradskills -- just like other MMOs.

So uh... what's the difference again?

EDIT: Somehow missed this part when I was waking up:

StateAlchemist2 wrote:
Don't get me wrong, that is really the goal of any MMO I have played, BUT at least SE puts the limiters in. I don't want my MMO to be over before it began. Let the story slowly unfold...give me ample time to rank up my crafting classes, explore the world, kill monsters, experiment with cross-classing abilities, parting...these are the true gems of FFXIV. It's just sad that they are dulled by the sheen of dust settled over them by the overwhelming drone of complaints.


FFXI's development team didn't put those limiters in there for your benefit; they were put into the game for the developer's slow speed of making content. It's really, truly sad how so many of the FF-O playerbase is deluded into thinking that SE puts these limits, and time restrictions, and other bogus fatigue systems in place for their benefit. Newflash: those aren't there for fun factors.

If you want a story to 'slowly unfold' then I hear there's this wonderful expansion called Wings of the Goddess. Perhaps that's the speed you prefer?

Complaints aren't what's ruining other aspects of the game; the game itself is doing so. There's overwhelming drones of complaints about the **** game for a very good reason.

Edited, Oct 29th 2010 2:38pm by StrijderVechter
#14 Oct 29 2010 at 12:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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StateAlchemist2 wrote:

I am happy that FFXIV is not an easy ride to Rank 50. I am happy that there isn't a plethera of NPC quests, and storyline missions. The anticipation of whats to come has always been the reason for me to play Final Fantasy. In fact, I didn't start tiring of FFXI until I hit endgame. THen it just seemed boring. Yes I got the cookie cutter gear that EVERYONE wanted, but it wasn't the rewards offered at the end of the long road to endgame that made me happy to be a part of FFXI. It was the journey that got me there.

So I beseech you SE...fix the bugs, give the naysayers enough to be happy, but don't ruin the journey. I look forward to the years I will play this game, and will be sad to see them come to an end.


You seem to be under the impression that there has to be a severe, crippling lack of content outside grinding for any kind of enjoyable content to be added later on.

You know what? Keep playing XIV, it seems like the perfect game for you...
>_>
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#15 Oct 29 2010 at 1:15 PM Rating: Decent
OhimeKowai wrote:
Actually, it is your game since not only did you spend money on the CD's, but you're also paying per month for the game


I haven't spent a dime. Used a buddy pass code to register, used someone elses disc to install, and have been playing free since Sept. 22nd. So until I receive my first subscription fee from SE on the Credit Card, they can do whatever they want to this game.

StrijderVechter wrote:
If you want a story to 'slowly unfold' then I hear there's this wonderful expansion called Wings of the Goddess. Perhaps that's the speed you prefer?


"A Moogle Kupo d'Etat"... is this the speed that YOU would prefer?

StrijderVechter wrote:
There's overwhelming drones of complaints about the **** game for a very good reason.


Yeah, I know...the reason is people love to complain. My opinion: If you don't like it, quit. More fun for me.

SickleSageKiroh wrote:
You seem to be under the impression that there has to be a severe, crippling lack of content outside grinding for any kind of enjoyable content to be added later on.


Later on is fine. Everyone seems to want NMs and AH and Endgame, etc... RIGHT NOW.

OK let's give you NMs...so you can complain about over-camping, and RMT?
OK let's give you an AH...so you can complain about price gouging/undercutting and RMT?
OK let's give you Endgame...so you can complain about not getting your uber1337haxor gloves, or that the HNMs are too hard or something else.

So as you may have noticed, no matter what they do for the players, people are still gonna complain. So imo... just do whatever you want SE.
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#16 Oct 29 2010 at 1:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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StateAlchemist2 wrote:
FFXI players can tell you (at least the ones around from the beginning) that there was a lot of problems with FFXI to begin with. Not much content either.

I get what you're saying but I don't agree. People like to say it should be apples to apples comparisons and stuff like that. Seems kind of silly to me. Why would I care what FFXI was like at release when I can go and play it now instead of FFXIV (not that I would right now)? If we are being realists, we compare FFXIV of today to FFXI/WoW/LotR/etc of today. When I switch to one of the other games listed, I would be playing whatever the current state of the game is today, not necessarily what it was like at release. We seem to tolerate things with games that we would NEVER tolerate from other markets.
IMHO, this game feels like it's still months away from release. We are in what should still be beta. Perhaps even closed beta with open beta being around new years. There seems like there is so much missing. This is the framework for what should be released in a couple months. The leve system seems like it's meant to be something that complements a primary questing system, not the entire thing. It reminds me so much of the dailies from WoW. Something to provide a reliable source of money/items and exp with a story sort of tacked on to it as an afterthought. Not something to replace actual quests.
The market wards seem like they are meant to be in addition to something more substantial. Who in the world thought opening and checking the bazaars of dozens if not hundreds of retainers would be a good way to do business in game? I mean really.. who? Oh, they're going to add a search function. Then I have to ask did the devs only recently discover it would need a search function or was it missing because it a ton of other stuff weren't actually scheduled to be in the game until open beta should have been in like 2 more months? And.. the cleaning people are here so I have to split.

I apologize for my semi rant and if you're enjoying the game then that's really all that matters. I'm just tired of companies thinking it's OK to pee all over gamers releasing stuff that needed more time and knowing there's not much that can be done about it since we can't really return the stuff once it's been opened or the code has been used.
#17 Oct 29 2010 at 1:50 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Yeah, I know...the reason is people love to complain. My opinion: If you don't like it, quit. More fun for me.


So StateAlchemist, you're one of those short-sighted people that thinks the less people playing is a good thing. Open your eyes.

On the subject of content: I don't think people are begging for end game but are rather asking for more engaging quests and things to add fun to the grind. Example: Have instanced dungeons that you can run with you friends that have loot, bosses, and quests.


To the OP: I think you bring up some very good points and I agree with you. I walked away from FF14 since it didn't have any of those hooks you describe that makes an MMO addictive.
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#18 Oct 29 2010 at 3:49 PM Rating: Decent
NeithanTheWronged wrote:
So StateAlchemist, you're one of those short-sighted people that thinks the less people playing is a good thing. Open your eyes.


No, I am one of those people that thinks that less people playing the same game as me, who feel they need to complain for the sake of complaining, is a good thing.

I am going through the same thing as everyone else. I didn't realize that I had to immediately go to the forum and start complaining about the same thing that everyone else has thouroghly complained about. Popping in a rant thread and saying "Me too!" is silly. Reposting the same complaint in a new thread in your own words is silly. People like that are better off in a different game, or at least on a different server than me.

Our LS solves the problems faced by the FFXIV community all the time. Have a hard time finding something? My entire LS works together to make sure everyone in the LS gets what they need. It's called communication. If you wanna complain abut not finding something and refuse to ask for help from others because you are scared, or think you can solo everything, then don't complain about it. If you can rank up fast because your soloing skills are horrible, or you cant find a spot to solo, go join an LS that does PTing, and group LQ's.

People are still complaining about UI lag, even though SE clearly said when they are going to fix it.

But hey, who am I to say what you can and can't do? Go ahead, keep on complaining...gives me something to chuckle at while I am playing the game that your too busy to complaining about to play.

Should be happy that your even playing the game, I'm sure there are people out there that can't afford to play this game until the PS3 release, that would be more than willing to deal with all the problems, in exchange for the time us PC users have before it hits consoles. I personally spent $700 to play FFXIV. I don't feel like I have wasted a penny. But then, maybe I am more sensible and patient then you are. Maybe it's because I am a female, so I don't look at it they same way guys do. I don't know.

It just seems like all the time your complaining about the game, you could be ranking up a class, farming, crafting, or just hangin out with friends, going and getting to a new camp so you can teleport there later...or just making some gil to buy future items that you know will cost an arm and a leg when they first come out.

Why is it I have an endless list of things to do that i enjoy, and never tire of, but all you people want is free loot, free equipment, free gil from quests, free xp. If you don't wanna spend the TIME and EFFORT it takes to advance like everyone else in the game, go play something else.
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#19 Oct 29 2010 at 4:59 PM Rating: Good
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StateAlchemist2 wrote:

Why is it I have an endless list of things to do that i enjoy, and never tire of, but all you people want is free loot, free equipment, free gil from quests, free xp. If you don't wanna spend the TIME and EFFORT it takes to advance like everyone else in the game, go play something else.


you misunderstand the reason most people are complaining, its not the time and effort that they have a problem with, its the tedium of the way the grind is implemented.

you seem to see ghosts in the closet everywhere, I think you're paranoid.
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#20 Oct 29 2010 at 5:04 PM Rating: Default
Lafaiel wrote:
StateAlchemist2 wrote:

Why is it I have an endless list of things to do that i enjoy, and never tire of, but all you people want is free loot, free equipment, free gil from quests, free xp. If you don't wanna spend the TIME and EFFORT it takes to advance like everyone else in the game, go play something else.


you misunderstand the reason most people are complaining, its not the time and effort that they have a problem with, its the tedium of the way the grind is implemented.

you seem to see ghosts in the closet everywhere, I think you're paranoid.


Oh so grinding 1000s of Maple Sap, for lack of a better synth to skill up on is not understanding the way the grind is implemented...anyone who is leveling a DoW/M class and grinding on monsters, that drop items and shards has no right to complain. At least your making a profit. Try spending hours farming Maple Sap, then hours synthing Maple Syrup, then hours synthing Maple Sugar. Then come complain to me about grinding. If I have no problems doing it for no gain, you shouldn't have a problem grinding for a profit.
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