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How do stat conversion traits work?Follow

#1 Oct 30 2010 at 12:41 AM Rating: Good
I haven't really seen this discussed anywhere yet so here goes: How do stat conversion traits work? For example, as a 20 Conjurer I purchased "Complete Control" and "Driven by Faith" with some Guild tokens I had. I've tried testing it and I really don't see a difference when using these traits.

In the menu it shows the changes yet doesn't seem to reflect the changes if any. Converting 5 Mind to 5 Dexterity doesn't improve my accuracy or evasion (I forget if DEX influences evasion.) and likewise with 5 Piety to 5 Vitality, there are no changes. I don't gain HP in the case of the VIT boost, and I don't lose any MP with the MND loss. There's no apparent change in defensive values either when using these stats. Are they broken...?
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#2 Oct 30 2010 at 12:56 AM Rating: Good
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Interesting... Perhaps scaling from the optimal level is at play here? Are you far from the optimal level?
#3 Oct 30 2010 at 1:03 AM Rating: Good
Optimal level for these trats are 20, for all classes. The stat changes show up on my attributes when viewing my equipment, it just doesn't seem to influence anything.

EDIT: Yea, went back and checked again, no changes to my Phsyical or Magical Attributes, no HP or MP differences either. I was curious to see if anything changed if I swapped classes, none. My stats remain the same with or without them. I tested with a 10 GLA, no difference. Even with my 20 CON there were no changes. Either they're broken or there's something else to it, OR they don't take effect until you're 1 rank over it. I'm almost to 21 CON, I'll check back then to see if they make any difference.

Edited, Oct 30th 2010 12:10am by SamusKnight
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#4 Oct 30 2010 at 1:07 AM Rating: Good
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If you are not seeing any changes in HP/MP when equipping these then I'd say it doesn't work. I say this because +Vit on gear adds HP, there should be no reason why these traits wouldn't.

Man.. More broken stuff.

#5 Oct 30 2010 at 1:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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Sir SamusKnight wrote:
Optimal level for these trats are 20, for all classes. The stat changes show up on my attributes when viewing my equipment, it just doesn't seem to influence anything.


sylph19 wrote:
If you are not seeing any changes in HP/MP when equipping these then I'd say it doesn't work. I say this because +Vit on gear adds HP, there should be no reason why these traits wouldn't.

Man.. More broken stuff.




A couple things come to mind, foremost do you know if the stats your boosting with these are capped for your level or not? If your not sure, you could try removing some gear giving you bonuses and see if you gain anything via the traits then.

Second, Stat contributions are still somewhat of a mystery as to exactly how they function. There's a good thread on here that is currently exploring the effect of DEX on accuracy by testing it via Gladiator. His current hypothesis (for melee at least) is, or was last i looked at least, that DEX may be a tiered stat and not a linear one. That is instead of going from 40 to 43 DEX giving you an increase in hit percentage, you might need to hit the next tier at 50 DEX before you see any improvement (numbers totally made up as an example).

There was also a posted reply suggesting that perhaps stats co-contribute to things such a Acc where DEX+PIE might be needed for a full benefit. That however was just speculation and hasn't, to my knowledge, been tested yet.

Unfortunately SE has decided to hide the direct effect of stats on game play for now (I have no idea why personally..) but until the theory-crafters can suss out how these mechanics work we may be left scratching our collective heads when confronted with such questions as the OP.
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#6 Oct 30 2010 at 1:29 AM Rating: Decent
Unequipped everything, changed to Conjurer (Again, 20, which means I'm the "optimal rank" for these traits.) and tried with and without them... No stat changes. HP hasn't increased, MP hasn't dropped, defense, attack, accuracy, all remains the same.
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#7 Oct 30 2010 at 1:43 AM Rating: Good
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Sir SamusKnight wrote:
Unequipped everything, changed to Conjurer (Again, 20, which means I'm the "optimal rank" for these traits.) and tried with and without them... No stat changes. HP hasn't increased, MP hasn't dropped, defense, attack, accuracy, all remains the same.



It's certainly possible it's broken, it may even be possible bonuses from these traits are hidden (Given SE's fetish for hiding anything useful or relevant I wouldn't be surprised.) Unfortunately that's all I can really think of, we may just have to wait and see what others come up with.
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Pikko wrote:
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sideways wrote: (really Pikko?)

Oh go stuff that thread up your ***. Did you even READ that post?
[...]
I mean, excuuuuse me for trying to make people PLAY NICE.


^ Second best forum mod smack down *ever*.
#8 Oct 30 2010 at 1:45 AM Rating: Good
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It's broken, but at the same time it's not broken.

Look at Mind +5 rings. They do not add any MP, however they add +2.5 health on my heals. Same thing happens with these conversion traits.

In addition, on the lodestone, it goes from something like 115 (115) vit to 115 (125) vit when putting on two rings.

Since I don't think VIT adds +armor, I wonder what it does besides flat out +HP.

Edited, Oct 30th 2010 3:47am by Meowshi
#9 Oct 30 2010 at 1:49 AM Rating: Good
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Meowshi wrote:
It's broken, but at the same time it's not broken.

Look at Mind +5 rings. They do not add any MP, however they add +2.5 health on my heals. Same thing happens with these conversion traits.

In addition, on the lodestone, it goes from something like 115 (115) vit to 115 (125) vit when putting on two rings.

Since I don't think VIT adds +armor, I wonder what it does besides flat out +HP.

Edited, Oct 30th 2010 3:47am by Meowshi



Now that you mention it, wasn't there a few topics last week talking about VIT on armor not granting HP? it's possible that VIT may play a roll in evasion, I think the test thread I mentioned early ruled DEX out as the evasion modifier.
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Pikko wrote:
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sideways wrote: (really Pikko?)

Oh go stuff that thread up your ***. Did you even READ that post?
[...]
I mean, excuuuuse me for trying to make people PLAY NICE.


^ Second best forum mod smack down *ever*.
#10 Oct 30 2010 at 1:49 AM Rating: Decent
Possibly so... Either way it was a waste of guild points, I had hoped I could use them for Gladiator since traits required for that class is STR, VIT and DEX. I got plenty of INT and PIE being a Conjurer but low DEX and VIT. VIT could be a plus for GLA as well so I don't need to rely on trying to reassign all my stats every time I want to play between the two classes. I rarely switch to any other jobs than Weaver, Botanist, and Conjurer so I've never really needed much of a reason to constantly reassign and redistribute my points.
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#11 Oct 30 2010 at 2:09 AM Rating: Good
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from lodestone:

HP 974 (1007)
MP 218 (226)

while on rank 13 LNC.

what does the stats in parenthesis even mean? I know from ingame that my max hp was 974.
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#12 Oct 30 2010 at 2:28 AM Rating: Good
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GusMorgan wrote:

from lodestone:

HP 974 (1007)
MP 218 (226)

while on rank 13 LNC.

what does the stats in parenthesis even mean? I know from ingame that my max hp was 974.



Is your physical level higher then your Rank? Number in parentheses would seem to me, on an uneducated guess, to be your actual HP/MP max. While the first set of numbers are the Max you have as your ranked Job, in this case 13 LNC.


Scratch that possibly, I just checked my own and the number difference is not enough to make up for my Phys 19/current job 6. Maybe it's just the next ranks values? I'm not sure.

Edited, Oct 30th 2010 4:31am by mistrik
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Pikko wrote:
Quote:
sideways wrote: (really Pikko?)

Oh go stuff that thread up your ***. Did you even READ that post?
[...]
I mean, excuuuuse me for trying to make people PLAY NICE.


^ Second best forum mod smack down *ever*.
#13 Oct 30 2010 at 5:39 AM Rating: Good
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Have you tried to change your point allotment with these abilities on? It seems like the point is to allow you to change between jobs more efficiently, mage to melee for example. So I would assume when changing your point allotment it would take 5 points from mind and apply it directly to dexterity instead of whatever system it uses to redistribute points to your available pool by default.

Edited, Oct 30th 2010 7:40am by Enyyx
#14 Oct 30 2010 at 6:42 AM Rating: Default
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try healing after you equip Complete control mind 5+ into Dex 5+


you will heal less if you got Complete control equip.
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#15 Oct 30 2010 at 10:53 AM Rating: Decent
Just for your information this was already being discussed in the THM forums:

http://ffxiv.zam.com/forum.html?forum=179&mid=1287863028259342985&page=1

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#16 Oct 30 2010 at 8:40 PM Rating: Decent
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Hi,

I spent time testing "Driven by faith" +5 Vitality, -5 Mind skill and have come to the conclusion that the stat point swap does not do anything other than change numbers around in your character screen. None of the skills linked to your stat points are affected by the shift in stat change. For example Mind effects my heals but I saw no difference in healing value when tested with and without the stat swap. I also tried logging out and back in to determine if it was a related issue but it made no difference. Here's some stats:

Rank 26 Conjurer

Before Stat Swap:
Vitality: 58
Mind: 65

Health 715
MP 761

237 Cure (how much cure heals - based on Mind stat points)
374 Cure II (how much cure heals - based on Mind stat points)

After Stat Swap:
Vitality: 63
Mind: 60

Health 715
MP 761

237 Cure (how much cure heals - based on Mind stat points)
374 Cure II (how much cure heals - based on Mind stat points)

Edit: Testing was conducted wearing nothing but undergarments and wielding a conjurer cane so as to not contaminate results from stats of other equipment.

Edited, Oct 30th 2010 10:42pm by fallout386

Edited, Oct 31st 2010 5:40am by fallout386
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#17 Oct 31 2010 at 4:52 AM Rating: Default
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you dont need to take all any gear for testing, just a before and after test will do.


im testing it now, last i did it, it really works. let see did they change anything now.

Edited, Oct 31st 2010 6:53am by namasy
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#18 Oct 31 2010 at 5:43 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Before Stat Swap:
Vitality: 58
Mind: 65

Health 715
MP 761

237 Cure (how much cure heals - based on Mind stat points)
374 Cure II (how much cure heals - based on Mind stat points)

After Stat Swap:
Vitality: 63
Mind: 60

Health 715
MP 761

your health and MP didnt change? maybe thats the deal with the effect and SE thinks its a big deal?
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#19 Oct 31 2010 at 5:47 AM Rating: Default
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fallout386 wrote:
Hi,

I spent time testing "Driven by faith" +5 Vitality, -5 Mind skill and have come to the conclusion that the stat point swap does not do anything other than change numbers around in your character screen. None of the skills linked to your stat points are affected by the shift in stat change. For example Mind effects my heals but I saw no difference in healing value when tested with and without the stat swap. I also tried logging out and back in to determine if it was a related issue but it made no difference. Here's some stats:

Rank 26 Conjurer

Before Stat Swap:
Vitality: 58
Mind: 65

Health 715
MP 761

237 Cure (how much cure heals - based on Mind stat points)
374 Cure II (how much cure heals - based on Mind stat points)

After Stat Swap:
Vitality: 63
Mind: 60

Health 715
MP 761

237 Cure (how much cure heals - based on Mind stat points)
374 Cure II (how much cure heals - based on Mind stat points)

Edit: Testing was conducted wearing nothing but undergarments and wielding a conjurer cane so as to not contaminate results from stats of other equipment.

Edited, Oct 30th 2010 10:42pm by fallout386

Edited, Oct 31st 2010 5:40am by fallout386





1st of all "Driven by faith" Piety +5/ Vit +5

no wonder your testing it wrong.!

just tested ''Complete Control'' mind +5/dex +5

you really get less heal from ''Complete Control'', Cure II before 372hp, after eqiuping ''Complete Control''Cure II 370hp.


but max mp stays the same, should be same for "Driven by Faith" 5+ Piety to 5+ Vitality, it wont change the max hp from vit, but you will have more Phy def.

it work, only half of the effect!!!


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#20 Oct 31 2010 at 6:18 AM Rating: Decent
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oof I'm an idiot. One too many late nights with FFXIV I think. Should get more sleep. Thanks for posting your observations.
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