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Does not having an AH really affect the economy?Follow

#52 Nov 01 2010 at 6:50 PM Rating: Good
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Telling someone who has limited amount of time to go play something else that they fail...well is very d1ck1ish. It's obvious, Porche must not really understand where some players are coming from when they say other things are more important and fussing they should go play something else. If you want an FFXI, go back to FFXI, but many of us bought this game with the impression from SE that it would be a game that would give us time restrained people a chance to play a good game. For me, a lot has been true, except a few things, including a lack of a stable market, a market that us the players, can easily go through.

As far as research for XI, XI has had many years to have a perfected economy (minus RMT), patch bugs, perfect the party system, add on tons of yummie storyline (which I have yet to see due to lack of time cause I need to farm this farm that raise level to this, get a team that)...so sorry if some of us are a bit irritated with a poor UI, bugs out the wazoo, and a crap-tastic way of looking for items...not what we were pitched. And no many of us won't leave because we hope that the many things that seem to be dragging 14 down, will be fixed, making it a very good and fun game...for those of us who again, can only have an hour or 2 to play.
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#53 Nov 01 2010 at 7:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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MclarenTAGPorsche wrote:
A game doesnt have to be easy to be fun, unfortunately that's something the wow generation will never understand.


Fun is not defined by easy or hard task. Is the player enjoying the task? That is the bottom line. You can make something easy that is very fun or you can do a very complex task that requires a lot of time that is enjoyable. There is nothing hard about this game other then trying to buy something in the ward :).

The so call hard task in FFXIV is nothing more than adding tons of inconvenient click and making you re-invent the wheel each time you want to do something. Example ..you want to make something you equip your tool, click to synth, click to get material, click to craft it, click to get the freaking shards, are you sure, yes, you start. Now you pick the standard..rapid..etc. After 5 minutes you either succed or start on a new one. Rinse repeat. This is what people are raving about as complex and hard enjoyable task? This game is riddled with task like this. If you think there is something complex or hard about this game please fill me in. I've yet to find it.
#54 Nov 02 2010 at 9:32 AM Rating: Good
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The best way to put how no AH affects the economy is like this.

Take the world in the early 1900s, no internet, difficult to spread the word about things across long distances. The price of tea in China wouldn't matter to someone living in Kansas.

Now take the world of today, when you can look at tea prices all over the world to find the best price, you're generally going to get the cheapest tea you can (assuming it's all the same, and in a game environment, it is). Now tea prices in China directly affect tea prices in Kansas, thanks to more information available to the tea consumer.

This means establishing a much better market system. The more information a purchaser has, and the less difference between products, the more likely prices will gravitate to where they should and the full force of free market theory can take effect.

Consider this, right now if we took every item for sale in bazaars in FFXIV and had it instantly searchable/purchasable in-game, prices would FALL. Now you wouldn't just price an item because you think it might sell good at this price, you would price it to be KNOWINGLY competitive with other shops. You also wouldn't be simply hoping you placed you bazaar in a good location and that someone would randomly run into it, the price of your good would be the sole determining factor in whether or not it sold, period.

This enables players to have far more control in saying how valuable each in-game object is, and establishes basic pricing ranges for items much, much quicker. When you don't have easy access to information about your business competitor's pricing, or on the flip-side as a consumer, when you don't have access to data showing the cheapest prices, you're going to find people get ripped off really easily.

In a game that is supposedly "casual" and with an item system/economy almost entirely designed to be driven by players, not having instant market information (i.e. an AH) is a very foolish thing.

Also, there's a huge inflation problem looming with a lack of any gil-sinks, and that may be a bit off topic, but I'll go into it anyhow. When you complete a guild leve/quest, or kill a monster and sell it's loot to an NPC, this creates gil. Think of this as a faucet being turned on, filling a bowl. When you give money to an NPC to pay for a repair, or really for any reason at all, this places a sink in the bowl, allowing the water to drain. However when you give money to another player, that's the equivalent of just stirring the water around in the bowl, the gil is still in the economy in the hands of a player, it's just not you anymore.

As I'm sure you've noticed, assuming you repair your own items, there's far far more gil (water) coming into the economy than is being taken out (sink). This will cause people to falsely value items when they determine their sale prices, as money at the higher levels becomes more and more useless (think gold in Diablo 2). This problem is further exagerrated with the lack of an AH or similar system to disseminate pricing information to the masses, as this in and of itself will generally raise prices as well.

Can't wait till they try to blame all that on RMT bots, lol.

Edited, Nov 2nd 2010 11:35am by iconchrono

Edited, Nov 2nd 2010 11:36am by iconchrono
#55 Nov 02 2010 at 9:36 AM Rating: Good
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MclarenTAGPorsche wrote:
A game doesnt have to be easy to be fun, unfortunately that's something the wow generation will never understand.


Researching for a game doesn't make it hard. It makes it tedious. Most people aren't interested in having to spend hours just getting ready to play. People who frequent forums like this are the minority of MMO gamers regardless of game. What that means is that the people who just want to log in and play the game or who draw their information strictly from sites like the Lodestone are at a disadvantage because SE frequently tries too hard to be clever and just ends up making a mess. They're getting better, but they've still got a knack for confusing convoluted for complex.
#56 Nov 02 2010 at 10:11 AM Rating: Good
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The AH has nothing to do with items selling below cost. That's simply the result of the craft system mechanics + not having items that bind on equip. Making items BoE would be one of the best things SE could do for crafters.

The AH doesn't cause undercutting either. As has already been stated in this thread, an oversupply of items causes undercutting. The AH simply speeds up this process of market correction just as it speeds up everything else. Almost anything that happens in an economy with an AH will happen in an economy with retainers... it will just happen much faster with an AH because the AH provides vast quantities of market information instantly, and in one central location. Instead of having to run around the world checking thousands of bazaars and retainers to find the supply and asking prices of an item, you can that information in seconds by checking the AH.
#57 Nov 02 2010 at 12:29 PM Rating: Good
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I'm not a fan of the use of the word "undercutting" and it's negative connotation. A surplus of supply will drive prices down. Lower prices are better for consumers. Period.
#58 Nov 02 2010 at 12:42 PM Rating: Good
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Eliminex wrote:
I'm not a fan of the use of the word "undercutting" and it's negative connotation. A surplus of supply will drive prices down. Lower prices are better for consumers. Period.


I agree, droping 5-10% of an items sales price when supply is high isn't really undercutting. dropping the price 30% or more when supply's average would be.
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#59 Nov 02 2010 at 12:46 PM Rating: Good
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KujaKoF wrote:
Eliminex wrote:
I'm not a fan of the use of the word "undercutting" and it's negative connotation. A surplus of supply will drive prices down. Lower prices are better for consumers. Period.


I agree, droping 5-10% of an items sales price when supply is high isn't really undercutting. dropping the price 30% or more when supply's average would be.


I call that "competition in the marketplace". If someone else can craft an item for cheaper, than so be it. He has the competitive edge in the marketplace. If someone wants to sell their wares at a loss, than so be it. He will be out of business soon enough.
#60 Nov 02 2010 at 12:51 PM Rating: Good
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Eliminex wrote:
KujaKoF wrote:
Eliminex wrote:
I'm not a fan of the use of the word "undercutting" and it's negative connotation. A surplus of supply will drive prices down. Lower prices are better for consumers. Period.


I agree, droping 5-10% of an items sales price when supply is high isn't really undercutting. dropping the price 30% or more when supply's average would be.


I call that "competition in the marketplace". If someone else can craft an item for cheaper, than so be it. He has the competitive edge in the marketplace. If someone wants to sell their wares at a loss, than so be it. He will be out of business soon enough.


heh, I agree with that too. "Undercutting" isn't a real problem. Crafters shouldn't expect the same items to remain profitable in a tiny economy with a relatively huge amount of crafters.
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#61 Nov 02 2010 at 1:08 PM Rating: Decent
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burtonsnow wrote:
For the most part anything you need to know about a game SHOULD BE ACCESSIBLE WITHIN THE GAME.


Aion had it so you could click on an NPC's name and it would give a brief description about the npc as well as show where it is on the map. Even if it is like buying maps in ffxi where you would have to purchase lore from an npc, i agree wholeheartily that i should be able to find out info about the game in game. not prices though, which i know is the topic, i feel that is something that you do have to learn on your own. whether it is going to websites or just searching the market and becoming accustom to it.
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#62 Nov 02 2010 at 1:15 PM Rating: Decent
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MclarenTAGPorsche wrote:

RESEARCHING IS A MUST FOR THIS GAME. I CANT STRESS THIS ENOUGH.

If you are lazy to look for stuff than you should not be rewarded as the player that took his time to search for good deals. The Auction House only benefits the lazy/dumb player or the gil buyer. If you only have 2hours to play this game AND WANT TO BE EFFECTIVE you are just fooling yourself. Stop now and go play anything else Beside a MMO


Lmao 2-3 hours is about the time i have to play during the week. I am effective anyway but im not using the stupid wards at all or i would spend 50-75% of my gaming time to search for something i need, and end up not finding it. But according to your post, its normal, its fun, its yhe game and after finding what i need i should be proud of me and tell every one what i found in the wards. I bet this will be a PS3 throphy "Gratz you found something in the ward" So i bet your happy when your going to the ward. Anyway il continu this post when i get home, its ******* long to type on a iphone. But your point is ******* stupid, it shouldnt be like that and SE wont leave it that way
#63 Nov 02 2010 at 1:34 PM Rating: Good
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KujaKoF wrote:

heh, I agree with that too. "Undercutting" isn't a real problem. Crafters shouldn't expect the same items to remain profitable in a tiny economy with a relatively huge amount of crafters.


Well, if your profit is simply reduced, I'd keep crafting. Small profit margins are still better than losses. Crafters shouldn't be crafting items unless there is some gameplan for profitability - whether it's immediate or long term.

I have no sympathy for the people who think their getting hosed because they "need" to craft something at a loss to skill up. You have a choice to farm the necessary ingredients at zero cost or just not do it at all and move on to the next trade or item. There's always a way to make money.
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