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This Could Be The Ultimate Tanking Weapon!!!Follow

#1 Oct 31 2010 at 11:49 PM Rating: Default
Maddening Dagger - Gladiator
Optimal Rank 34
Accuracy: 134
Attack Power: 107
Critical Hit Rate: 144
Defense: 100
Parrying: 147
*Magic Accuracy: 107
*Magic Potency: 11

Damage Type:
Piercing: 80%
Slashing: 20%

Based off of testing of Maddening Potion (Which is used on a mob and instantly increases your Enmity with that mob) and testing of Nerve Drops (Which is used on a mob and instantly decreases your Enmity with that mob).

This means that like the other Addition Effect Daggers it will, upon procing, apply the Maddening Effect on the monster your attacking. Effectively working as a continuosly procing Enmity generator.

This being the only artificial enmity generator in the game at the moment (besides the maddening potion) could make this the ultimate tanking weapon in the game.

Would love to get some data on proc rate at optimal rank but was seeing a fairly good proc rate even at lower levels (below optimal rank). If anyone can do some extensive testing this would be great.

Anyways if your looking for a weapon to help you tank, look no further!

Edited, Nov 1st 2010 8:34am by StateAlchemist2

Edited, Nov 1st 2010 10:16am by StateAlchemist2

Edited, Nov 2nd 2010 2:29pm by StateAlchemist2
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#2 Oct 31 2010 at 11:57 PM Rating: Decent
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StateAlchemist2 wrote:


(Also if you want one on Palamecia, I can make them, and have a few in stock.)



the ultimate sales pitch for the ultimate tanking dagger!
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#3 Nov 01 2010 at 12:22 AM Rating: Good
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It's only the ultimate tanking weapon if you need the enmity. If you're able to stack enough enmity without it, it's just a dagger. And for me personally, I never envisioned gladiators as a dagger class. It's sword 'n board, not dagger 'n board, ya know? There's nothing more thematically disappointing than a heavily armored warrior with a massive wall of a shield and a...butter knife.

Not saying it's a bad dagger, just that I wouldn't necessarily go around labeling it as the ultimate anything right now.
#4 Nov 01 2010 at 12:26 AM Rating: Decent
Aurelius wrote:
It's only the ultimate tanking weapon if you need the enmity. If you're able to stack enough enmity without it, it's just a dagger. And for me personally, I never envisioned gladiators as a dagger class. It's sword 'n board, not dagger 'n board, ya know? There's nothing more thematically disappointing than a heavily armored warrior with a massive wall of a shield and a...butter knife.

Not saying it's a bad dagger, just that I wouldn't necessarily go around labeling it as the ultimate anything right now.


I keep hearing about Tanks that cant hold hate off of cure spamming, or tanks that dont have enough stamina to do vokes and defensive moves and attack.

As far as damage is concerned, whats more important as a tank...dealing a few more points of damage? Or holding hate? I am sure anyone will agree if its a choice between Enmity+ and Attack, Enmity will win out almost every time.

This might alieviate the need for ability spamming of vokes or what not based on proc rate at or above opt rank.

My LS gladiators will be using these soon so i will try to post some feedback on performance.

Edited, Nov 1st 2010 2:27am by StateAlchemist2
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#5 Nov 01 2010 at 12:30 AM Rating: Decent
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Not really; pretty much depends on your PT setup.
In a huge PT with Mages/Attackers with unlimited MP and very good gear, *perhaps*.
In a small PT where you need the GLD to contribute to damage output: not so much.
In a PT with a pretty good GLD: not at all. He'll generate enough hate with the
higher damage he does and voke/whistle.
#6 Nov 01 2010 at 12:32 AM Rating: Decent
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If it is anything like the other daggers, it will never proc.

Seriously. Like once in five monsters (~3 minutes)
#7 Nov 01 2010 at 12:39 AM Rating: Decent
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Pssst! He's trying to sell those knifes.
Btw: the OP is also adamant about facing directions, guardian deity and color of the kelp in Limsa Lominsa harbor influencing crafting.
Like: Let the superstition carnival begin!
Again.
#8 Nov 01 2010 at 1:32 AM Rating: Good
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StateAlchemist2 wrote:
Aurelius wrote:
It's only the ultimate tanking weapon if you need the enmity. If you're able to stack enough enmity without it, it's just a dagger. And for me personally, I never envisioned gladiators as a dagger class. It's sword 'n board, not dagger 'n board, ya know? There's nothing more thematically disappointing than a heavily armored warrior with a massive wall of a shield and a...butter knife.

Not saying it's a bad dagger, just that I wouldn't necessarily go around labeling it as the ultimate anything right now.


I keep hearing about Tanks that cant hold hate off of cure spamming, or tanks that dont have enough stamina to do vokes and defensive moves and attack.


That's because most tanks in the game right now don't seem to know wtf they're doing and are trying to mash FFXI mechanics into their roles in FFXIV and can't quite figure out that if it's not working, chances are ur doin it wrong. Gladiators that build their character around tanking and don't waste stamina trying to Provoke like they would as /WAR in FFXI are apparently having a pretty reasonable time of things, especially once they get Heavy Slash and start building from there. My group experience as Gladiator in FFXIV so far has been that parties with stupid DD make a tank's life ****. Parties that play with half a brain and wait until the tank has had a few seconds to build threat are a joy to work with.

Quote:
As far as damage is concerned, whats more important as a tank...dealing a few more points of damage? Or holding hate? I am sure anyone will agree if its a choice between Enmity+ and Attack, Enmity will win out almost every time.


The reason Gladiators are favoring daggers right now is specifically because they're the highest damage weapon available to us in the lower levels. As you get to the 15+ range, daggers and short swords tend to scale about the same but daggers are a whole lot easier to make (fewer components). 40+ daggers fall off the map and it's all about the swords. That's why I'm not trashing the dagger and trying to say it's bad...I just think that your claims that it's the ultimate tank weapon are a bit off the mark.
#9 Nov 01 2010 at 6:34 AM Rating: Decent
Rinsui wrote:
Pssst! He's trying to sell those knifes.
Btw: the OP is also adamant about facing directions, guardian deity and color of the kelp in Limsa Lominsa harbor influencing crafting.
Like: Let the superstition carnival begin!
Again.

Actually you pretty much managed to list everything that is completely unimportant.
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#10 Nov 01 2010 at 7:39 AM Rating: Decent
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Interesting.... but I haven't had any trouble holding hate... provoke at the beginning of the fight and spam Heavy Slash and done... the only time this isn't effective is if you're fighting stuff that's way too high above your level and you are missing every hit.
#11 Nov 01 2010 at 8:25 AM Rating: Decent
Aurelius wrote:
...I just think that your claims that it's the ultimate tank weapon are a bit off the mark.


Yeah, sorry bad wording. Changed the title of the thread and edited my post, was trying to get some attention brought to this, but obviously the wording only attracted the trolls. More interested in getting some gladiators to test this out then anything else. I just didn't know how many people actually know what Maddening Dagger/Potion even did, considering the lack of explantion of items in the wikibase.

Also, someone mentioned about poor proc rate...I know in FFXI proc rate of some items was linked to a stat of some kind. There maybe a way to get it to proc more. in addition, different daggers may proc more or less depending on what it does. Kind of hoping, like I said earlier, someone will get thier hands on one and test it out.

I'd be willing to give someone one on Palamecia (at cost of materials) if theres someone that wants to test it on my server, just send me a /tell in game.

As far as general party enmity is concerned even if the dagger is useless having Maddening Potions to help grab hate back in an emergency (or for a specific fight...maybe on like some of the NMs coming out soon?) or like the Healer having some Nerve Drops (instantly reduces enmity) may help.

It's something to keep in mind if they start adding NMs or fights that require a strategy that last longer than the average fight does now.
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#12 Nov 01 2010 at 8:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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Aurelius wrote:
There's nothing more thematically disappointing than a heavily armored warrior with a massive wall of a shield and a...butter knife.

I think if they made joke weapons (Cid's mop in FFVII comes to mind), butter knife would be hilarious.
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#13 Nov 01 2010 at 1:19 PM Rating: Good
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Aurelius wrote:
My group experience as Gladiator in FFXIV so far has been that parties with stupid DD make a tank's life ****. Parties that play with half a brain and wait until the tank has had a few seconds to build threat are a joy to work with.


Yeah... this. Was partying and there was an archer in the party who was always making the first move and getting killed... I wanted to say: DUDE YER AN ARCHER NOT A TANK but I couldn't be bothered.
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#14 Nov 01 2010 at 1:24 PM Rating: Good
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When I get a couple more levels I would love to make some potions up.

So far IMO the potions are way cooler/worth buying than the weapons - partially because anyone of any rank can use them - partially because you get insta-status effect.

That said I plan on using most of the potions I make and giving some away to friends. The best marketing is if someone sees the thing in action. I have to say, being in a party and insta-sleeping a scary aggro spider-thingy and having the clump of us escape was the best advertising I could have ever done. All of the sudden people were interested in pots... lol
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#15 Nov 01 2010 at 9:22 PM Rating: Default
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StateAlchemist2 wrote:
ultimate yanking weapon in the game.



I have an ultimate yanking weapon, too.

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#16 Nov 01 2010 at 9:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Olorinus the Vile wrote:
Aurelius wrote:
My group experience as Gladiator in FFXIV so far has been that parties with stupid DD make a tank's life ****. Parties that play with half a brain and wait until the tank has had a few seconds to build threat are a joy to work with.


Yeah... this. Was partying and there was an archer in the party who was always making the first move and getting killed... I wanted to say: DUDE YER AN ARCHER NOT A TANK but I couldn't be bothered.


People like that are in every MMO I've ever played, and they never seem to learn. At least sometimes they get lippy about dying all the time and then you can mock them or impale them with scathing commentary on their level of intelligence without coming off as the instigator. Entertaining, but hardly worth the irritation that leads to that point.
#17 Nov 02 2010 at 5:17 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I have an ultimate yanking weapon, too.

Well, it is a thread about daggers...
#18 Nov 02 2010 at 12:30 PM Rating: Decent
FlixEffect wrote:
StateAlchemist2 wrote:
ultimate yanking weapon in the game.



I have an ultimate yanking weapon, too.


LOL.........

edited it thanks for the great LOL though ^^
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#19 Nov 02 2010 at 12:42 PM Rating: Decent
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I saw your shouts for selling these on Palamacia for 500k right after you made them. Any luck with that? If so, I want to jump on that train too and make over 10x the cost of mats for each one :)
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#20 Nov 02 2010 at 12:48 PM Rating: Decent
yeah i always try to sell the first 1 or 2 for 500k if i can to try and make back lost money on breaks and such (did that with sleeping and paralyzing daggers) sold 1 for that price, then have been slowly dropping it down to find a comfortable price. currently sitting at 100k now that i have some stock. (mats were hard to find >< took me a while but found some iron daggers for 50k each...)

made some frebies for my LS gladiators and passed them out yesterday, so i am hoping the perform well. if not then its back to the search for another good weapon!

Cost of materials is actually fairly high if you have to buy the daggers...combine that with a 50%~ success rate and it doubles. I managed to succeed more than 50% of the time, but I am still barely making a profit of of 100k each.

Someone mentioned higher up being more interested in using the maddening potions (or maybe having like the healers use nerve drops) i am gonna take that suggestion probably, the only thing is im not sure what to sell the potions for. lol

Edited, Nov 2nd 2010 2:52pm by StateAlchemist2
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#21 Nov 02 2010 at 12:57 PM Rating: Decent
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I'll sell you iron daggers all day long @ 50k each! The mats for those are very basic. Since I see you in Ul'dah all the time - I'll send you a tell next time I'm on.
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