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#1 Nov 02 2010 at 4:54 AM Rating: Decent
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At the following time period, we will be performing system maintenance on FINAL FANTASY XIV. During this period, FINAL FANTASY XIV will be unavailable.

We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause and thank you for your understanding.

[Date & Time]
Nov. 4, 2010 from 00:00 to 02:00 (PDT)
* Maintenance completion time may be subject to change.

[Affected Service]
FINAL FANTASY XIV

[Details]
System Maintenance


Wonder what we'll get this week
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#2 Nov 02 2010 at 5:12 AM Rating: Decent
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Hopefully they will start to implement the changes they were on about in the nov/dec updates. At most i'd atleast like a sort function in the items menu.
#3 Nov 02 2010 at 5:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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I wouldn't expect those until later in November, since they said late November in the original announcement.
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#4 Nov 02 2010 at 5:14 AM Rating: Decent
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Notiquetaki wrote:
Hopefully they will start to implement the changes they were on about in the nov/dec updates. At most i'd atleast like a sort function in the items menu.


I thought those were mid Nov and late Dec, I'm honestly not expecting anything big. However it would be nice if they dropped in a few more leves or something that makes life in Eorzea a little more enjoyable.
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#5 Nov 02 2010 at 5:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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This is the first time they have referred to it as 'System Maintenance', rather than simply 'Maintenance on all worlds'.

Wonder what that means?
#6 Nov 02 2010 at 5:42 AM Rating: Good
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I'm not expecting anything exciting; probably just more little bug fixes rather than changes or additional 'features' (MAIL! INVENTORY SORT! AH!).

Regarding the late November and mid December updates I really hope SE give us something good. Unfortunately I can't help but notice that there has been no mention of the UI lag; only that there will be improvement to 'the Actions & Traits menu, starting by automating the selection of main/off hand'. In my opinion the UI needs a complete overhaul in addition to the fixes that have been mentioned, as I'm sure alot of other players will agree. Just getting rid of the fade-in/fade-out effect would, at least, make it feel a bit more responsive.

I will wait and see how the search functionality improves the market wards. I have been getting by with the existing system, but I am still firmly on the 'Dude Where's my Auction House' bandwagon. My biggest concern is that this will not go any way towards fixing the issue where the fist 2 or 3 wards are completely full (i.e. no room for more retainers), with many retainers selling nothing related to that ward. From what has been said on the Lodestone pages, I understand that the search facility will only allow you to search one ward at a time, although I may be wrong. I just hope I don't have to teleport to each ward before I can use the search facility, but I expect that is what will happen.

I also wonder what they'll choose to tell us in the next 'Ask the Devs' update. I really hope it's not as lame as the last installment. I certainly won't be putting any money on SE telling us something we don't already know. For me the QA on crafting was the only one I've learnt anything from.

Anyway, I don't mean to whine. Hopefully we will get something nice; if not in the next update thenby the end of the month.

Edited, Nov 2nd 2010 7:43am by Mince
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#7 Nov 02 2010 at 6:06 AM Rating: Decent
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Unfortunately I can't help but notice that there has been no mention of the UI lag


That's because fixing that will take much longer, if it even can be 'fixed'. Now that they are separating the server stress across multiple servers the lag will ease, but it still won't be completely gone until they make it client-based instead of server-based. Easier said than done.
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#8 Nov 02 2010 at 7:14 AM Rating: Decent
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probbably be better intergration with the lodestone, they seem to be more concerned about that
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#9 Nov 02 2010 at 8:32 AM Rating: Good
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I wouldn't expect the late November updates until the 18th at the earliest, but most likely will be updated on the 25th.

But thinking it through a little bit the 60 day extension ends the 20th for the CE crowd and the 28th for the SE rest correct? if they release on the 18th thats 2 days left for free sub time for people to see the progress made, and 10 days for the rest. Might be a smart move for SE to release more mid-ish Nov than late Nov just for that reason.
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#10 Nov 02 2010 at 10:06 AM Rating: Good
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Hyanmen wrote:
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Unfortunately I can't help but notice that there has been no mention of the UI lag


That's because fixing that will take much longer, if it even can be 'fixed'. Now that they are separating the server stress across multiple servers the lag will ease, but it still won't be completely gone until they make it client-based instead of server-based. Easier said than done.


I had been playing via HDMI off the output from my Motherboard. I had just recently built the computer and didnt have money at the time for a video card. I could run the game, but it was laggy and UI lag was horrible. This was with all settings at their lowest options.

Last saturday I had a little extra money and figured I'd finally buy a video card. I opted for the one recommended on the back of the FFXIV game box. Nvidia geforce gtx 460. I have absolutely ZERO UI lag now, even with all settings at full. Before I would sometimes have to wait up to 3 minutes for NPCs in crowded areas (Bhango Zango in LL, most NPCs in Camps etc). Now, as soon as I should be able to see the NPC they're there.

I'm sure there's some lag they can work on, but from what I experienced this week... I think people just need to upgrade their video cards.
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#11 Nov 02 2010 at 10:21 AM Rating: Decent
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If they do wait until the 25th to release the first big patch/update...it would not surprise me if SE did a 180 and actually released the patch notes a week before so everyone new what was coming before the 22nd renewal.

It would also not surprise me if we received 1 more free month.
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#12 Nov 02 2010 at 10:24 AM Rating: Good
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I must say I'm loving this new maintenance window - being EST.

Its perfect.... 3-5am

The old one (ffxi) would always end at 3-4pm which is right when I'm getting home from work so I would be hosed as far as downloading the update.
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#13 Nov 02 2010 at 10:25 AM Rating: Decent
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The only UI lag I get is when I call my retainer around a bunch of people. XFX XXX edition ATI Radeon 5770 here.

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I must say I'm loving this new maintenance window - being EST.


I agree. Maintenance in the early hours of the morning = awesome!

Edited, Nov 2nd 2010 12:26pm by Libtech
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#14 Nov 02 2010 at 10:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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AshlarThePaladin wrote:
I'm sure there's some lag they can work on, but from what I experienced this week... I think people just need to upgrade their video cards.


You have a fundamental misunderstand of the two different types of lag you are experiencing. The UI lag everyone is talking about is the server response times. What this means is you click on a menu item, the game sends a message to the server with this request, the server sends back the answer to request (yes/no), and then your character performs said request. The lag you experienced with your onboard GPU is that the motherboard could not process all the pixels on your screen. The game was telling it NPC goes here, PC goes here, PC goes here, Retainer goes there, etc etc, but your onboard graphics could not keep up with what the game is telling it. One type of lag is present because your system couldn't process its internal requests quick enough. The other type of lag is caused by sending this request half way across the world to Japan and back. Seeing as how there is no way for this information to travel quicker we are stuck with UI lag.
#15 Nov 02 2010 at 10:57 AM Rating: Decent
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burtonsnow wrote:
AshlarThePaladin wrote:
I'm sure there's some lag they can work on, but from what I experienced this week... I think people just need to upgrade their video cards.


You have a fundamental misunderstand of the two different types of lag you are experiencing. The UI lag everyone is talking about is the server response times. What this means is you click on a menu item, the game sends a message to the server with this request, the server sends back the answer to request (yes/no), and then your character performs said request. The lag you experienced with your onboard GPU is that the motherboard could not process all the pixels on your screen. The game was telling it NPC goes here, PC goes here, PC goes here, Retainer goes there, etc etc, but your onboard graphics could not keep up with what the game is telling it. One type of lag is present because your system couldn't process its internal requests quick enough. The other type of lag is caused by sending this request half way across the world to Japan and back. Seeing as how there is no way for this information to travel quicker we are stuck with UI lag.


I was and am fully aware of what UI lag is. I might not have been clear in my examples, but I do know the difference. I was just amazed at the entire difference in every aspect, but specifically to UI: Before when trying to sell things it would take anywhere from 5-15 seconds sometimes between clicking on something and the item to be selected/windows to change/item to actually sell and switch to the next in the list. Now after the new video card it's instantanious. What would before take me 10+ minutes now takes me 2-3 if that.

I have absolutely no lag in anything I do. Where is this UI lag now? Am I just missing it?
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#16 Nov 02 2010 at 11:04 AM Rating: Good
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They need to do away with all this serverside UI ********* Once SE fixes all the other issues, the #1 complaint is going to be how JP can do things much faster because there is less latency (FACT). Even a little bit of difference in latency will make a huge difference when dealing with the menus and UI.
#17 Nov 02 2010 at 11:20 AM Rating: Decent
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Hopefully they will start to implement the changes they were on about in the nov/dec updates. At most i'd atleast like a sort function in the items menu.


Nah they will let the game stagnate more first, then when the few that are still around finally get thrown a bone they will be so happy they will think its a prime steak.

Thankfully this time most of the players of this game wont be so easily swayed by such tactics.
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#18 Nov 02 2010 at 11:35 AM Rating: Decent
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I noticed that they labeled it as "System Maintenance" as opposed to "Maintenance on All Worlds" in previous iterations. I wonder if that makes things different...
#19 Nov 02 2010 at 12:39 PM Rating: Decent
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AshlarThePaladin wrote:
I was and am fully aware of what UI lag is. I might not have been clear in my examples, but I do know the difference. I was just amazed at the entire difference in every aspect, but specifically to UI: Before when trying to sell things it would take anywhere from 5-15 seconds sometimes between clicking on something and the item to be selected/windows to change/item to actually sell and switch to the next in the list. Now after the new video card it's instantanious. What would before take me 10+ minutes now takes me 2-3 if that.

I have absolutely no lag in anything I do. Where is this UI lag now? Am I just missing it?


My Apologize, from your first post you didn't make it clear you understood the difference and since you are still disputing the fact I am in doubt that you truly do understand. UI lag is and will be here as long as everything needs to be authenticated by SE servers. It may be that your perception is no UI lag, whether the reasoning be from the drastic change you experienced or just your personal opinion, but there is no disputing this....it is a fact that the UI lags.
#20 Nov 02 2010 at 1:01 PM Rating: Decent
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AshlarThePaladin wrote:

I have absolutely no lag in anything I do. Where is this UI lag now? Am I just missing it?


The UI lag I am having is like this....

My computer is fast enough for me to show all the char and option on the menu I have,
When I try to sell things, put item into bazzar, equip action to my slot...
If I click the button as fast as my PC allow(which is, no lag as you say),
ALL THE BUTTON I CLICK WOULD BE RESETED within second, as if I have clicked nothing and back to step one, because the sever is not catching up.
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#21 Nov 02 2010 at 1:03 PM Rating: Decent
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burtonsnow wrote:
AshlarThePaladin wrote:
I was and am fully aware of what UI lag is. I might not have been clear in my examples, but I do know the difference. I was just amazed at the entire difference in every aspect, but specifically to UI: Before when trying to sell things it would take anywhere from 5-15 seconds sometimes between clicking on something and the item to be selected/windows to change/item to actually sell and switch to the next in the list. Now after the new video card it's instantanious. What would before take me 10+ minutes now takes me 2-3 if that.

I have absolutely no lag in anything I do. Where is this UI lag now? Am I just missing it?


My Apologize, from your first post you didn't make it clear you understood the difference and since you are still disputing the fact I am in doubt that you truly do understand. UI lag is and will be here as long as everything needs to be authenticated by SE servers. It may be that your perception is no UI lag, whether the reasoning be from the drastic change you experienced or just your personal opinion, but there is no disputing this....it is a fact that the UI lags.


I have too yet to experience this "UI lag" many people complain about on these boards. It may be a fact that *your* UI lags, but it's not as universal as you might think.

Edited, Nov 2nd 2010 3:03pm by volta1
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#22 Nov 02 2010 at 1:16 PM Rating: Good
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volta1 wrote:

I have too yet to experience this "UI lag" many people complain about on these boards. It may be a fact that *your* UI lags, but it's not as universal as you might think.

Edited, Nov 2nd 2010 3:03pm by volta1


Put something in your bazaar. Sell something to a NPC. Open your Inventory. Take something out of your bazaar. Put things on a trade window. Put things on the synthesis window.

If those actions are not instantaneous, then you have UI lag.

Edited, Nov 2nd 2010 3:16pm by Meowshi
#23 Nov 02 2010 at 1:20 PM Rating: Decent
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volta1 wrote:
I have too yet to experience this "UI lag" many people complain about on these boards. It may be a fact that *your* UI lags, but it's not as universal as you might think.

I have yet to experience this "troll" many people complain about on these boards. It may be a fact that *you* troll, but it's not as universal as you might think.
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#24 Nov 02 2010 at 1:57 PM Rating: Good
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volta1 wrote:
I have too yet to experience this "UI lag" many people complain about on these boards. It may be a fact that *your* UI lags, but it's not as universal as you might think.

Edited, Nov 2nd 2010 3:03pm by volta1


I will try to be nice to you because obviously you do not understand how this current system works.

You the player is next to an Aetherial node and want to interact with it. Here is the process it involves

Player A clicks their menu button.
Player A sends to SE servers the request to open the menu.
SE Servers receive the request and based on your current state (Menu open/closed) sends a response
Player A then receives said response from SE and based on the response performs an action (closing or opening the menu)

It is a fact that ALL UIs LAG, end of story. It may be your perception that your UI does not lag, but it does.

This also brings into question why SE would use this system when it clearly benefits Japanese customers who will have much less latency (use www.speedtest.net to view the latency from your home location to Japan) I currently get 30ms to San Diego and 130ms to Japan, meaning 4 times as long. Then take into account that information has to then be returned to you.

Edited, Nov 2nd 2010 3:57pm by burtonsnow
#25 Nov 02 2010 at 1:59 PM Rating: Good
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Almalexia wrote:
volta1 wrote:
I have too yet to experience this "UI lag" many people complain about on these boards. It may be a fact that *your* UI lags, but it's not as universal as you might think.

I have yet to experience this "troll" many people complain about on these boards. It may be a fact that *you* troll, but it's not as universal as you might think.


A Noob's Guide to Trolling
Step 1: State opinion with no actual data
Step 2: Solicit others' opinions
Step 3: Write off opinions that don't gel with yours, label them trolls


For what it's worth, I can tolerate the 50 millsecond delay when I place something in my bazaar. The poster who I was supporting cites that once he updated his GPU, there was less lag. That prompted outrage from some people for some reason - as if it shakes the foundation of their belief system.

I upgraded from an 8800GTS in beta to 2xGTX480's in SLI for CE - there is a HUGE difference in the game performance, including this perceived 'lag' that everyone claims (unduly) is "server-side", not providing any data/stats or demonstrating they have any knowledge of how computer systems actually work.

MMOs by their very nature are "server-side" - the server is the arbiter of all things true in Eorzea. When you post something in your bazaar, a combination of things occur. First, of course, you have to tell the fricking server you're placing an item in your bazaar. Then, your client has to update its state to reflect that fact.

Now who knows WTF happens on the client, what validation occurs and what events it triggers on the local machine. I'm sure there's plenty of room for optimization. What is a FACT, though, is that your GPU cycles certainly make a difference in making the game run smoothly. Have mommy buy you a real graphics card and test it out for yourself.
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#26 Nov 02 2010 at 2:01 PM Rating: Decent
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burtonsnow wrote:
volta1 wrote:
I have too yet to experience this "UI lag" many people complain about on these boards. It may be a fact that *your* UI lags, but it's not as universal as you might think.

Edited, Nov 2nd 2010 3:03pm by volta1


I will try to be nice to you because obviously you do not understand how this current system works.

You the player is next to an Aetherial node and want to interact with it. Here is the process it involves

Player A clicks their menu button.
Player A sends to SE servers the request to open the menu.
SE Servers receive the request and based on your current state (Menu open/closed) sends a response
Player A then receives said response from SE and based on the response performs an action (closing or opening the menu)

It is a fact that ALL UIs LAG, end of story. It may be your perception that your UI does not lag, but it does.

This also brings into question why SE would use this system when it clearly benefits Japanese customers who will have much less latency (use www.speedtest.net to view the latency from your home location to Japan) I currently get 30ms to San Diego and 130ms to Japan, meaning 4 times as long. Then take into account that information has to then be returned to you.

Edited, Nov 2nd 2010 3:57pm by burtonsnow



Please, post the PCAPs or TCP dumps of your evidence that this is what happens. When I open an aetheryte, I perceive no lag nor do I think that trivial things like the ones you mention are bottlenecked on the server. You're speculating as much as anyone else. "All UIs lag, end of story" is purely nonsense.
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#27 Nov 02 2010 at 2:07 PM Rating: Decent
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volta1 wrote:
[quote=burtonsnow]Please, post the PCAPs or TCP dumps of your evidence that this is what happens. When I open an aetheryte, I perceive no lag nor do I think that trivial things like the ones you mention are bottlenecked on the server. You're speculating as much as anyone else. "All UIs lag, end of story" is purely nonsense.


Perception and facts are two separate beliefs. I'm not saying things are bottlenecked on the server, but instead of taking less than 1/10th of a second to perform a task with this system it can take up to 1/2 a second. I scored 5,000 on high, I know i'm not smoking **** when i see that my UI lags.
#28 Nov 02 2010 at 2:12 PM Rating: Good
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burtonsnow wrote:
volta1 wrote:
[quote=burtonsnow]Please, post the PCAPs or TCP dumps of your evidence that this is what happens. When I open an aetheryte, I perceive no lag nor do I think that trivial things like the ones you mention are bottlenecked on the server. You're speculating as much as anyone else. "All UIs lag, end of story" is purely nonsense.


Perception and facts are two separate beliefs. I'm not saying things are bottlenecked on the server, but instead of taking less than 1/10th of a second to perform a task with this system it can take up to 1/2 a second. I scored 5,000 on high, I know i'm not smoking sh*t when i see that my UI lags.



Fair enough, but is it detracting from your overall experience? To what extent? I've read several times here that people say the lag makes the game "unplayable", and I've truly never seen any such lag.

In placing things in a bazaar/trade, I expect there to be a certain delay. I'm used to that going back to games like Diablo. Certain things have to go to the server, and that really doesn't bother me.

Can SE optimize some of the lag issues by being creative in the client? Probably. Should there be one-click buttons to do things like open your inventory and have it load instantly from a client cache? Almost certainly. But is the lag ruining the game for me? Definitely not. Could it be for some people? Probably, but it seems those people should upgrade their rigs to meet the recommended system requirements. I'm not saying you're one of them.

Honestly, a half second lag when trading is cool with me. Even WoW has that. What game doesn't?
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#29 Nov 02 2010 at 2:47 PM Rating: Decent
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If it were only half a second I could deal with that. But it isn't it is literally 5-6 seconds consistently for any action to move to the next step.
#30 Nov 02 2010 at 2:59 PM Rating: Decent
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Ezariel wrote:
If it were only half a second I could deal with that. But it isn't it is literally 5-6 seconds consistently for any action to move to the next step.


Honestly, would you mind posting your computer's hardware spec? It would be nice to build a po' man's database of PC rigs to lag testimonials..
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#31 Nov 02 2010 at 3:11 PM Rating: Decent
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volta1 wrote:
Can SE optimize some of the lag issues by being creative in the client? Probably. Should there be one-click buttons to do things like open your inventory and have it load instantly from a client cache? Almost certainly. But is the lag ruining the game for me? Definitely not. Could it be for some people? Probably, but it seems those people should upgrade their rigs to meet the recommended system requirements. I'm not saying you're one of them.

Honestly, a half second lag when trading is cool with me. Even WoW has that. What game doesn't?


I would say that alone by itself this does not detract from gameplay, what does detract from gameplay is this lag in conjunction with the convoluted UI/menu system. Other unmentioned MMOs as well have a similar lag when performing server side operations (trading, vendoring, AH, etc), the difference is in how these actions are performed.

I will agree that many of the people who complain about lag are just playing this game on too high of settings or don't have the machine to run the game.
#32 Nov 02 2010 at 3:27 PM Rating: Good
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AshlarThePaladin wrote:
Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
Unfortunately I can't help but notice that there has been no mention of the UI lag


That's because fixing that will take much longer, if it even can be 'fixed'. Now that they are separating the server stress across multiple servers the lag will ease, but it still won't be completely gone until they make it client-based instead of server-based. Easier said than done.


I had been playing via HDMI off the output from my Motherboard. I had just recently built the computer and didnt have money at the time for a video card. I could run the game, but it was laggy and UI lag was horrible. This was with all settings at their lowest options.

Last saturday I had a little extra money and figured I'd finally buy a video card. I opted for the one recommended on the back of the FFXIV game box. Nvidia geforce gtx 460. I have absolutely ZERO UI lag now, even with all settings at full. Before I would sometimes have to wait up to 3 minutes for NPCs in crowded areas (Bhango Zango in LL, most NPCs in Camps etc). Now, as soon as I should be able to see the NPC they're there.

I'm sure there's some lag they can work on, but from what I experienced this week... I think people just need to upgrade their video cards.


THis!

I have been playing since day 1 of CE release and have never had an issue with UI lag. If your machine is good enough, there is no lag. SE said that the system requirements would be very high, everyone disagreed and said they would be fine with the machine they have got. NOw they are playing a horribly laggy game and blaming SE.

Admittedly my system is a little overpowered but I have no problems whatsoever and never have.

(Im running 2x GTX480's in SLI, with a quad core, hyper threaded 3.2Ghz proc, liquid cooled and overclocked to 4.2Ghz and have 12GB of fast RAM. I run FFXIV like a dream)
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#33 Nov 02 2010 at 3:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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Mince wrote:
Regarding the late November and mid December updates I really hope SE give us something good. Unfortunately I can't help but notice that there has been no mention of the UI lag; only that there will be improvement to 'the Actions & Traits menu, starting by automating the selection of main/off hand'. In my opinion the UI needs a complete overhaul in addition to the fixes that have been mentioned, as I'm sure alot of other players will agree. Just getting rid of the fade-in/fade-out effect would, at least, make it feel a bit more responsive.
This has been a major concern of mine as well. Both players and SE seem to be focused on the confusing and "layered" system of menus rather than the lag itself, which is the bigger issue.

Yes, it's annoying to have to go through so many choices and confirmations, but the real problem is that the lag highlights the number of times you have to open a new window. If they make it more streamlined but it's still slow, it will still be frustrating to use. On the other hand, if all the windows loaded in a fraction of a second instead of 1+ seconds the multiple clicks to get to one thing wouldn't be nearly as annoying.

The problem isn't the "fade-in/fade-out effect" though, it's the fact that everything the UI does runs too many checks with the servers and is basically downloading too much information for simple things. This is most noticeable when you're trying to do anything with the inventory like equip items, trade with other players, or organize with your retainer, but it also affects combat quite a bit (useless spellcasting bars, stamina use not displaying in real time). In order to truly fix it they need to put more trust in the client.

All this talk about there being "no lag" for those with better computers can't be right. I may not get 60fps everywhere, but I can tell you it takes multiple seconds to switch out an item with my retainer (during which time everything else lags and is unresponsive) in many instances where I am in fact running at a smooth 60fps. This clearly points to a problem with packet optimization, not my computer being bad.

Edited, Nov 2nd 2010 2:33pm by TheMoreYouKnow
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#34 Nov 02 2010 at 3:36 PM Rating: Good
AshlarThePaladin wrote:
Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
Unfortunately I can't help but notice that there has been no mention of the UI lag


That's because fixing that will take much longer, if it even can be 'fixed'. Now that they are separating the server stress across multiple servers the lag will ease, but it still won't be completely gone until they make it client-based instead of server-based. Easier said than done.


I had been playing via HDMI off the output from my Motherboard. I had just recently built the computer and didnt have money at the time for a video card. I could run the game, but it was laggy and UI lag was horrible. This was with all settings at their lowest options.

Last saturday I had a little extra money and figured I'd finally buy a video card. I opted for the one recommended on the back of the FFXIV game box. Nvidia geforce gtx 460. I have absolutely ZERO UI lag now, even with all settings at full. Before I would sometimes have to wait up to 3 minutes for NPCs in crowded areas (Bhango Zango in LL, most NPCs in Camps etc). Now, as soon as I should be able to see the NPC they're there.

I'm sure there's some lag they can work on, but from what I experienced this week... I think people just need to upgrade their video cards.




oh baby, you just made my day. i decided to do a re-build and just ordered the radeon 5970 this morning.
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#35 Nov 02 2010 at 3:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Maybe it is my location relative to Japan that gives me the benefit, rather than my incredibly expensive PC.

THat might explain why i get terrible latency and lag when playing Aion and WoW (with servers in the US), but virtually none on FFXIV.

I guess you guys in the States need some state side servers!

Welcome to my world - the rubber banding in Aion was so bad as to make the game unplayable, and there is nothing worse than lagging out when you play a healer in WoW!
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#36 Nov 02 2010 at 3:43 PM Rating: Default
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Despite the retards who think the UI lag has to do with latency, it is your computer.

My 465-based computer opens the menu INSTANTLY. It scrolls through menu items INSTANTLY. It opens crafting and trade windows in 0.5-1s. That lag will probably be dealt with in the patch.

My 8800GT computer takes about a second to even open the menu and takes like 10 seconds to sell something or start crafting. If this is your probablem, no patch is going to fix it, it is your computer.

If you believe "latency" has anything to do with this you are completely retarded.


Edited, Nov 2nd 2010 5:44pm by regularpony
#37 Nov 02 2010 at 3:44 PM Rating: Good
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HallieXIV wrote:
THis!

I have been playing since day 1 of CE release and have never had an issue with UI lag. If your machine is good enough, there is no lag.


Another one....seriously try to understand how this system works. For any server related action there is going to be around a .2 second lag...more if the server happens to be processing multiple of these at the same time (although I would venture to guess the server takes 1/100th of a second to process a request at most, meaning it would have to be experiencing at least 100 requests every second before it started to really bog down).

Ping from California to Japan (I am also one of the closest US states to Japan) is 130ms on average, meaning 13/100 seconds or .13 seconds. Double that as the response has to be sent back and you get .26 seconds with no other variables coming into play. So many of the actions require server authentication that if any of those variables are not cooperating (i.e an underpowered machine) then the lag becomes more apparent.
#38 Nov 02 2010 at 3:49 PM Rating: Decent
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regularpony wrote:
Despite the retards who think the UI lag has to do with latency, it is your computer


Why are you calling me a ******? Can you really consider me to be below the average IQ?

The lag has nothing to do with my computer and everything to do with the 1/4 a second it takes for SEs servers to respond to any single one of my requests. I build computers for a **** living, my latest being a Dual CPU Xeon with ATI FirePro V7800. Now you are gonna call me a ****** and say I don't know how to build computers?!??!

I will just say, read up, because Knowledge is Power, and TheMoreyouKnow has plenty of knowledge for you.

*edit*
On that note, TMYK, I think it is a combination of these two problems that is really making it worse. There isn't much they can do about their server response times, we are 5,000+ miles away. I do hope they can implement a more intuitive and streamlined UI first and then work on tweaking server responses (because it does no good to tweak the system and then change how the core functions).

Edited, Nov 2nd 2010 5:51pm by burtonsnow
#39 Nov 02 2010 at 3:50 PM Rating: Decent
SE would never release all the good stuff this early, that would mean keeping potential customers around. They'd rather wait until our free month is up, then release it, an lose thousands of current customers.

Also, having a ridiculous expensive machine means nothing, myself and most of my friends have Core I7's with good GPU's, and the lag is still beyond ridiculous. I've even tried lowering it to the ********* settings possible and notice 0 difference, it's 100% server side, or REALLY badly programmed.
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#40 Nov 02 2010 at 4:05 PM Rating: Decent
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volta1 wrote:
Ezariel wrote:
If it were only half a second I could deal with that. But it isn't it is literally 5-6 seconds consistently for any action to move to the next step.


Honestly, would you mind posting your computer's hardware spec? It would be nice to build a po' man's database of PC rigs to lag testimonials..



Phenom II x4 945 @ 3.0ghz (no overclocking)
Gigabyte MA790FXT-UD5P SLI motherboard
8gb G-Skill DDR3 1600
2 x 500gb WD Caviar black hard drives in a Raid 0 setup
1 x XFX Radeon 5850 video card.
Win 7 Ultimate x64

Certainly not the bleeding edge of tech but it is no slouch. And I have sat there literally with a stopwatch timing actions. Recently I went back to AoC for some fun and got 70-90 fps in all areas I went to with all options at maximum. Computer performance is not the issue based on everything I have seen.



Edited, Nov 2nd 2010 6:15pm by Ezariel
#41 Nov 02 2010 at 4:42 PM Rating: Good
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Ezariel wrote:
volta1 wrote:
Ezariel wrote:
If it were only half a second I could deal with that. But it isn't it is literally 5-6 seconds consistently for any action to move to the next step.


Honestly, would you mind posting your computer's hardware spec? It would be nice to build a po' man's database of PC rigs to lag testimonials..



Phenom II x4 945 @ 3.0ghz (no overclocking)
Gigabyte MA790FXT-UD5P SLI motherboard
8gb G-Skill DDR3 1600
2 x 500gb WD Caviar black hard drives in a Raid 0 setup
1 x XFX Radeon 5850 video card.
Win 7 Ultimate x64

Certainly not the bleeding edge of tech but it is no slouch. And I have sat there literally with a stopwatch timing actions. Recently I went back to AoC for some fun and got 70-90 fps in all areas I went to with all options at maximum. Computer performance is not the issue based on everything I have seen.



Edited, Nov 2nd 2010 6:15pm by Ezariel


I have almost the same thing (except Phenom X II 955) and my UI works pretty well... isn't instant but it isn't horribly slow.
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#42 Nov 02 2010 at 5:25 PM Rating: Decent
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That is because it is network and/or server lag as we have been saying all along. I lack the information and tools to troubleshoot it. It's not spyware or anything on my computer. I wiped the box, reinstalled OS, and downloaded all current drivers from scratch the night before I picked up my CE so that I would have a clean untainted experience in this new world and have had this since the moment I first logged in. I doubt it's network as I get 160ms give or take to the servers, which is not great but not horrible either.

I work designing and supporting enterprise datacenters for a living. I know server lag when I see it. Maybe your server is less crowded, or you spend more time in less crowded areas (I do see a noticable difference when in completely remote areas). It is the only way to explain 2 near identical systems experiencing such different results.

Edited, Nov 2nd 2010 7:28pm by Ezariel
#43 Nov 02 2010 at 5:32 PM Rating: Decent
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I've got a 4ghz i7, 12gb ram, os and games running off a raid0 of 2x crucial c300s and a 5870 and it still takes 3-4 seconds each transaction with my retainer (like getting gil. Trading a item).

User interface is pretty laggy too (battles acknowledging and exececuting actions.)
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#44 Nov 02 2010 at 5:58 PM Rating: Decent
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Levish wrote:
I've got a 4ghz i7, 12gb ram, os and games running off a raid0 of 2x crucial c300s and a 5870 and it still takes 3-4 seconds each transaction with my retainer (like getting gil. Trading a item).

User interface is pretty laggy too (battles acknowledging and exececuting actions.)
\

One part of this I do agree with.

Whether it is because I am in Australia, or because I have a powerful machine, I dont get much lag doing anything with the UI OTHER THAN using my retainer.

Significant lag of around 1 second whenever I want to trade goods. Also, when interacting with "shops" I get a similar 1 second lag. Everything else is pretty much instant.
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#45 Nov 02 2010 at 6:00 PM Rating: Good
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burtonsnow wrote:
regularpony wrote:
Despite the retards who think the UI lag has to do with latency, it is your computer


Why are you calling me a ******? Can you really consider me to be below the average IQ?

The lag has nothing to do with my computer and everything to do with the 1/4 a second it takes for SEs servers to respond to any single one of my requests. I build computers for a **** living, my latest being a Dual CPU Xeon with ATI FirePro V7800. Now you are gonna call me a ****** and say I don't know how to build computers?!??!

I will just say, read up, because Knowledge is Power, and TheMoreyouKnow has plenty of knowledge for you.

*edit*
On that note, TMYK, I think it is a combination of these two problems that is really making it worse. There isn't much they can do about their server response times, we are 5,000+ miles away. I do hope they can implement a more intuitive and streamlined UI first and then work on tweaking server responses (because it does no good to tweak the system and then change how the core functions).

Edited, Nov 2nd 2010 5:51pm by burtonsnow


I dont think that the definition of ****** = below average IQ.

If that were the case, then assuming intelligence is normally distributed half the population would be retarded. Whils that is probably true of half of the ZAM population:-) I dont believe this translates into the world in general.
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#46 Nov 02 2010 at 6:01 PM Rating: Good
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volta1 wrote:
Ezariel wrote:
If it were only half a second I could deal with that. But it isn't it is literally 5-6 seconds consistently for any action to move to the next step.


Honestly, would you mind posting your computer's hardware spec? It would be nice to build a po' man's database of PC rigs to lag testimonials..


I'm running an Asus G73JH-A1 which has the following specs:

CPU: Intel Core i7 I7-720QM / 1.6 GHz
RAM: 8GB DDR3
GPU: ATI Mobility Radeon HD 5870 1GB

I run the game on the lowest setting to try and squeeze the best performance out of it; I'm really not bothered by how pretty it looks.

The UI lag I originally mentioned was not on opening or scrolling through menu's per say, but rather when swapping items with my retainer, selling things, buying things, changing equipment etc. Saying that though, the UI in general does feel rather clunky to me, especially in comparion to FFXI.

I would be genuinely interested in whether it was my rig or something else that causes these issues. Perhaps it is a product of both hardware specifications and network latency.

Edited, Nov 2nd 2010 8:03pm by Mince
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#47 Nov 02 2010 at 6:02 PM Rating: Good
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average IQ is 100, the test is manipulated and remade every few years or so to maintain that. Mental retardation is when a person has below a 70 IQ.
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#48 Nov 02 2010 at 6:03 PM Rating: Default
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HallieXIV wrote:
I dont think that the definition of ****** = below average IQ.

If that were the case, then assuming intelligence is normally distributed half the population would be retarded. Whils that is probably true of half of the ZAM population:-) I dont believe this translates into the world in general.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_disability

So sorry nice try.


*edit*
Ok you are right, not below average, but 15% below average :-\

Edited, Nov 2nd 2010 8:05pm by burtonsnow
#49 Nov 02 2010 at 8:04 PM Rating: Default
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glad to see others post that they too have no lag... keep em coming. i want people like burtonsnow to say we don't know how it works a few more times
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#50 Nov 02 2010 at 8:36 PM Rating: Decent
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volta1 wrote:
glad to see others post that they too have no lag... keep em coming. i want people like burtonsnow to say we don't know how it works a few more times


I'll try to lay it out even more simply for you.

.26 of a second AT A MINIMUM for any action that requires a server response from my current location in California, supposing their servers are not under load and experiencing any slowdowns of their own and my computer has enough power to process these requests as equally fast (mind you I'm not taking into account the size of the packet *or SE's bandwidth capabilities so it truly is more). You're right it really isn't a lot of lag for one action, but it is still lag (which i'm kinda ok with, all MMO have these server checks, though XIV seems to have more). In addition, on occasion users (with above the recommended specs) experience UI delays of 1-5 seconds during any given play session in any given area (basically it doesn't seem to be concentric).

I will concede, it has acceptable response times for an MMO, but there are still issues that need to be looked at to improve the user interface experience, IMO before any lag is taken care of.

*edited

Edited, Nov 2nd 2010 10:38pm by burtonsnow
#51 Nov 02 2010 at 8:54 PM Rating: Decent
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burtonsnow wrote:
volta1 wrote:
glad to see others post that they too have no lag... keep em coming. i want people like burtonsnow to say we don't know how it works a few more times


I'll try to lay it out even more simply for you.

.26 of a second AT A MINIMUM for any action that requires a server response from my current location in California, supposing their servers are not under load and experiencing any slowdowns of their own and my computer has enough power to process these requests as equally fast (mind you I'm not taking into account the size of the packet *or SE's bandwidth capabilities so it truly is more). You're right it really isn't a lot of lag for one action, but it is still lag (which i'm kinda ok with, all MMO have these server checks, though XIV seems to have more). In addition, on occasion users (with above the recommended specs) experience UI delays of 1-5 seconds during any given play session in any given area (basically it doesn't seem to be concentric).

I will concede, it has acceptable response times for an MMO, but there are still issues that need to be looked at to improve the user interface experience, IMO before any lag is taken care of.

*edited

Edited, Nov 2nd 2010 10:38pm by burtonsnow


no one is disputing round-tripping from client-server, or even that FFXIV may have more than your average bear... but you are refusing to acknowledge that based on experiential evidence from those of us who have played this game on multiple rigs, most of the perceived (and complained about) UI lag is due to people running the game on ****** and/or not properly configured setups. Let me put it simply for you, sir: people don't know how to RTFM, so instead come here to commiserate. The majority of the lag is client-side, due to underpowered rigs and/or PEBKAC (google it), not because of server roundtrip latency being worse or more frequent than other games.

Your continued attempts at acting condescending only highlight your inability toward reading comprehension.
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