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Will they ban the LS's that cheat? Follow

#1 Nov 02 2010 at 6:34 PM Rating: Default
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Earlier today I was exploring and saw an entire LS cheating/exploiting.

They had a group of people @ a grinding camp with like 6-7 people completely afk while the rest grinded on efts. And I watched them and asked one of the guys and they do it for the SP bonus of having a 15 man party, even though only half of them were actually grinding.

And they were getting basically 500 sp every single mob, and almost all of them were late 30s/early 40s.


I have no problem with people power grinding and rushing to 50, but this is OBVIOUSLY and very clearly exploiting. But will SE actually do anything about it ?

Edited, Nov 2nd 2010 8:35pm by Kalaildar

Edited, Nov 5th 2010 11:17am by Fleven Lock Thread: flame war
#2 Nov 02 2010 at 6:39 PM Rating: Good
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Kalaildar wrote:
Earlier today I was exploring and saw an entire LS cheating/exploiting.

They had a group of people @ a grinding camp with like 6-7 people completely afk while the rest grinded on efts. And I watched them and asked one of the guys and they do it for the SP bonus of having a 15 man party, even though only half of them were actually grinding.

And they were getting basically 500 sp every single mob, and almost all of them were late 30s/early 40s.


I have no problem with people power grinding and rushing to 50, but this is OBVIOUSLY and very clearly exploiting. But will SE actually do anything about it ?

Edited, Nov 2nd 2010 8:35pm by Kalaildar



That's not really cheating or exploiting, that's they system working as intended. Maybe it's a little shady on some level given that some peopel aren't there but, as far as the game mechanics go - they are not doing anything wrong.
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#3 Nov 02 2010 at 6:42 PM Rating: Default
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Uhm no its not.

The old SP glitch was EXACTLY THE SAME.

People could join your group and go craft then you could kill marmots for 500 sp a kill.

The only difference is now they have to be in the same zone as you.

Its still cheating exactly the same, except now they have to park their chars near your camp
#4 Nov 02 2010 at 6:48 PM Rating: Good
Interesting how having an afk member in your party in FFXI would be a detriment to the group XP. Now we're rewarded for it. Will there ever be a balance in the force? Just a brain ****: a feature that removes party members that have been inactive for more than [insert amount of time here].
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#5 Nov 02 2010 at 6:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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Kalaildar wrote:
Uhm no its not.

The old SP glitch was EXACTLY THE SAME.

People could join your group and go craft then you could kill marmots for 500 sp a kill.

The only difference is now they have to be in the same zone as you.

Its still cheating exactly the same, except now they have to park their chars near your camp



Still seems like it's working as intended to me. It's one thing to have some crafter in Limsa giving you a party bonus, clearly that wasn't intended. But given that they are there with the group that's grinding, I don't see anyway to get around that. There's no fix they could implement to further bar this from happening, the way its set up is that you get the bonus if your party mates are within X-distance from you while grinding. In that respect, it's what they are doing. Even if they do come out and label it an exploit, which i doubt they will, there's no way to enforce punishment of people who do it. Who's to say who's doing this, and who just has a couple people afk in their group?

You and I may not particularly like the practice, but I can't really call it an exploit when the mechanic is working as intended. Also, I just don't really see this as being a big deal at all. There are far more pressing things they need to focus on then questionable use of one of the few functioning game mechanics that ultimately just serves as a work-around for the terrible SP gain system.
Quote:

Interesting how having an afk member in your party in FFXI would be a detriment to the group XP. Now we're rewarded for it. Will there ever be a balance in the force? Just a brain ****: a feature that removes party members that have been inactive for more than [insert amount of time here].


That could work, but honestly it just seems like a lot more irritation for everyone to band-aid fix something that doesn't really matter anyway.

Edited, Nov 2nd 2010 8:53pm by mistrik
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#6 Nov 02 2010 at 6:58 PM Rating: Good
mistrik wrote:

Quote:
a feature that removes party members that have been inactive for more than [insert amount of time here].


more irritation for everyone to band-aid fix something that doesn't really matter anyway.


Yep. I could give a rats *** if Joe Schmo is lv50 before me. "Grats man, you so totally pwned the video game."


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#7 Nov 02 2010 at 7:12 PM Rating: Decent
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Edit: I re-read that after I had posted and as others had stated its "working as intended". Yeah I know its a buzz kill that people are exploiting it, but the only way SE will take action is if they watch whats going on. Even then I don't think they will do anything seeing as how its part of the mechanics.

Edited, Nov 2nd 2010 9:16pm by Trisdale
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#8 Nov 02 2010 at 7:14 PM Rating: Good
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The whole system is just...weird.

From the random skill gains to the nonsensical "party bonus," it's just all so far removed from normal RPG progression.

The party bonus in particular seems to be a reward for essentially nothing. I'm not saying FFXI's EXP chain system is by any means ideal, but at least it rewarded players for something some people would at least consider being good at the game on some level - efficiency in fights. XIV's party bonus simply rewards you for having as many people as you can possibly find (and now that are within 5 ranks and nearby). They don't have to be contributing, doing any better at their role in the group, or anything, they just have to be there. In fact, it would probably help if they didn't do anything since you will get more chances to gain skill yourself due to the random skill gain system.

I don't think there's a problem with players "cheating" so much as there is a disconnect between what SE's systems for progression do and what everyone expects in terms of progression and bonuses to such.
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#9 Nov 02 2010 at 7:17 PM Rating: Decent
No the AFK people don't get SP. And depending on their physical the XP is marginal. The OPs gripe is with the 6-7 people getting capped SP because they have a full 15 person party, but only half of them are playing. If I recall correctly, SE already did... something... about this issue. I agree people doing this are taking advantage of a game mechanic that may need work. That said, I could care less either way.

-- Edit --

The post I was responding to was ninja edited while I was responding!! But I'm gonna leave it be, cause that's how I roll!

Edited, Nov 2nd 2010 9:18pm by mattkujata
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#10 Nov 02 2010 at 7:34 PM Rating: Default
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You have to participate in the fight to get SP. That is the "fix" which SE has implemented to make it different than any other MMORPG. You can still get xp (just like every other MMORPG)if your party allows you to go afk and not contribute,but I imagine since SP is how you "level" in FFXIV SE is ok with some xp leaching.
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#11 Nov 02 2010 at 7:36 PM Rating: Decent
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mattkujata wrote:
No the AFK people don't get SP. And depending on their physical the XP is marginal. The OPs gripe is with the 6-7 people getting capped SP because they have a full 15 person party, but only half of them are playing. If I recall correctly, SE already did... something... about this issue. I agree people doing this are taking advantage of a game mechanic that may need work. That said, I could care less either way.

-- Edit --

The post I was responding to was ninja edited while I was responding!! But I'm gonna leave it be, cause that's how I roll!

Edited, Nov 2nd 2010 9:18pm by mattkujata


The something has to do with Rank differences. There's some confusion as to whether all members must be within 5 ranks of each other, or you get the bonus for each member within +/- 5 ranks of yourself, but the limit is 5 ranks, measured somehow.

Quote:
The party bonus system (which awards bonus skill points for battles fought in a party) has been changed so that the bonus is awarded based on the number of fellow party members in the same area who are within the appropriate skill rank range, not simply the total number of party members.

* The party bonus system awards more points when there are more party members within the appropriate skill rank range.
* In this case, "appropriate skill rank range" means a skill rank no more than five ranks lower or higher than your own.


From http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/news/detail?newsId=dbb5a630f338f84b0b3583928bd4c19715154f30

Edited, Nov 2nd 2010 9:39pm by Ilmoran
#12 Nov 02 2010 at 8:56 PM Rating: Decent
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It seems that the simplest solution that would produce the least additional load on the servers would be to do what other MMOs do...if you're inactive for longer than 10 minutes (give or take), you're flagged as AFK. There is no penalty associated with simply being flagged AFK, but what it would do is give the system a flag to check when determining which party members are contributing towards the activities of the group and calculate bonuses accordingly.

And yes, this is an exploit. The people in question are manipulating the game mechanics in a way for which they were not intended as a means of creating a benefit. Nobody in their right mind would say that SE intended for LS groups to have half their roster parked AFK at their favorite SP camp so that the people who are actually actively playing can reap the SP bonus.
#13 Nov 02 2010 at 9:52 PM Rating: Decent
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SE isn't going to ban anyone right now. They can't afford to lose even more income from this game.
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#14 Nov 02 2010 at 9:55 PM Rating: Default
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It's the same as the conjurer parties, don't kid yourselves people. You'll see JP parties do this all the time, leaving a pile of sleeping Japanese corpses in a corner while the rest grind. Just another clever abuse of game mechanics, nothing major. Please don't escalate it and make SE break the system.
#15 Nov 02 2010 at 10:40 PM Rating: Good
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Crappy side effect of a crappy system. pretty tough to enforce at the moment too without the afk feature aurelius mentioned. We know its an exploit to have someone afk for hours while contributing to sp bonus. But what about a mob killed while a dude is afk grabbing a drink, taking his dog out, or any other less than 10 minute activity. Should the parties involved be banned because they didn't bother to disband.

Also, should it count as exploiting if people are grouped, and at their computers, but not doing anything to contribute to the group.


this is all why I prefer mob based XP rather than action based. At least in that case, if you're going to solo with someone afk to get them XP, they at least had to work double hard due to rewards being cut. this system has too many abusable features.
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#16 Nov 02 2010 at 11:03 PM Rating: Default
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Kalaildar wrote:
Earlier today I was exploring and saw an entire LS cheating/exploiting.

They had a group of people @ a grinding camp with like 6-7 people completely afk while the rest grinded on efts. And I watched them and asked one of the guys and they do it for the SP bonus of having a 15 man party, even though only half of them were actually grinding.

And they were getting basically 500 sp every single mob, and almost all of them were late 30s/early 40s.


I have no problem with people power grinding and rushing to 50, but this is OBVIOUSLY and very clearly exploiting. But will SE actually do anything about it ?

Edited, Nov 2nd 2010 8:35pm by Kalaildar


Q.Q moar

seriously, they are not cheating. They are only using the game mechanics to their advantage. You don't like it, don't join their shell. I sense some jealousy for not being able to do the same.

point: Who cares, play your way. Let others play theirs
#17 Nov 02 2010 at 11:04 PM Rating: Good
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SE had allready been banning people and putting their account on hold.
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#18 Nov 02 2010 at 11:19 PM Rating: Default
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By all means please ban people for using the system you have created.. instead of avoiding the problem.. why not fix it? This proves how incompetent SE is ... **** if I was still playing this lousy game I would totally abuse this system just to spite them.. My standards are too high (or average) and this game completely (severely) beneath me..

This is not cheating btw .. it's called playing the game.. was butterflying in Gunz cheating? was following a crazy perfect leveling guide on lotro to get cap level in like 2 weeks cheating? Using cheap techniques in sc2 such as cheesing with bunkers cheating? No you flipping morons it's using the system to it's fullest effect.. Also joining pt just to get bonuses is not an entirely new concept.. **** for some game it is the core game concept.. i.e. silkroad online...

Jeez people just get **** hurt way too easily.. I can't even begin to imagine what will happen when they got bots programmed and working for this game.. Oh wait I probably will be playing Guild Wars 2 or something by then..

P.S. Those of you who are claiming this is your last MMO if it fails.. no comment.. you are just completely oblivious to everything that is not Final Fantasy..
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#19 Nov 03 2010 at 12:14 AM Rating: Good
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See? Remember how this came up in the last thread about the healing exploit? People who exploit always blame the developer for "allowing" the exploitable mechanic to exist in the first place. Always. Always always always.

"Well, if they didn't want us to do it they shouldn't have let it be possible in the first place."

Morons. If that's what you think, you're either a moron because you actually think that excuse is going to fly or you're a moron because you're not bright enough to figure out what is or isn't an exploit and steer clear of it.

If that's how you want to roll, by all means carry on. Just don't double up on the stupidity by coming here with a shiny new "WTF bant?!?!" thread, k?
#20 Nov 03 2010 at 12:16 AM Rating: Decent
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Trisdale wrote:
Edit: I re-read that after I had posted and as others had stated its "working as intended". Yeah I know its a buzz kill that people are exploiting it, but the only way SE will take action is if they watch whats going on. Even then I don't think they will do anything seeing as how its part of the mechanics.


The healing exploit was a part of the mechanics, too.
#21 Nov 03 2010 at 12:38 AM Rating: Default
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The system is set the system has its requirements. I would count this as smart coordination more than anything. I mean have yo tried to level past 25? Jesus.... It's terrible. SP bonus use ftw
#22 Nov 03 2010 at 1:49 AM Rating: Default
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So what is SE going to do ban every person that AFk's in Parties? OR better yet.. remove party bonus all together? Neither is doable at this moment.. banning "everyone" (I am using the term everyone very loosely here) will cause instant financial loss.. removing party bonuses will remove any reason for people to even party...

The question is what can SE do to fix the problem? THat is assuming there is a problem at all.. Isn't surplus still an active feature in the game o.o.. I haven't heard about it in awhile..
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#23 Nov 03 2010 at 2:02 AM Rating: Default
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I would hazard a guess that MOST players who gained their 30's and 40's by week 3 exploited the **** out of the broke pre-patch system that boosted out of area with members of any level. That was like 3 weeks ago, and they haven't rolled back or banned a single person. It would seem this is one of those things they're going to let slide and just fix it in future patches with no repercussions. They probably think they're bleeding so many players they can't afford to punish folks for their own unfinished and poorly designed mechanics.
#24 Nov 03 2010 at 3:35 AM Rating: Decent
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Um... yeah its an exploit for sure...
Finding 10 people to go afk and do nothing in a party isn't exactly a resource that easily available to everyone or intended by the developers...
I'm sure this will get addressed eventually...
#25 Nov 03 2010 at 3:35 AM Rating: Default
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Um... yeah its an exploit for sure...
Finding 10 people to go afk and do nothing in a party isn't exactly a resource that easily available to everyone or intended by the developers...
I'm sure this will get addressed eventually...
#26 Nov 03 2010 at 4:20 AM Rating: Decent
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Since we're Beta testing this game right now for SE, isn't it our duty to find all these exploits, investigate them and report back?
#27 Nov 03 2010 at 4:26 AM Rating: Default
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Why are people so critical of SE over every little thing? Their system is better than everyone else's and you won't give them a break. You can't get sp without participating. In every other game, if your friends want to "Give" you xp while you are eating dinner , they can. What else do you want?
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#28 Nov 03 2010 at 4:53 AM Rating: Default
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That's not really cheating or exploiting, that's they system working as intended. Maybe it's a little shady on some level given that some peopel aren't there but, as far as the game mechanics go - they are not doing anything wrong.


Spot on, last I checked you dont get SP unless you do something?

As for EXP? isnt that the same as ABYSS in FFXI. You dont need to do anything to get endless amount of EXP.

Nope Not cheating what so ever.
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#29 Nov 03 2010 at 5:00 AM Rating: Default
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SE isn't going to ban anyone right now. They can't afford to lose even more income from this game.


Square don't think this way, they banned a ton of hardcore people on their previous game losing a lot of money. They will ban people if they think they are abusing what they put in place, I don't think they would for this but your reasoning is way off.
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#30 Nov 03 2010 at 5:15 AM Rating: Good
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Aurelius wrote:
See? Remember how this came up in the last thread about the healing exploit? People who exploit always blame the developer for "allowing" the exploitable mechanic to exist in the first place. Always. Always always always.

"Well, if they didn't want us to do it they shouldn't have let it be possible in the first place."

Morons. If that's what you think, you're either a moron because you actually think that excuse is going to fly or you're a moron because you're not bright enough to figure out what is or isn't an exploit and steer clear of it.

If that's how you want to roll, by all means carry on. Just don't double up on the stupidity by coming here with a shiny new "WTF bant?!?!" thread, k?

No, the morons here are SE and you. SE are morons because they made a progression system that is impossible to balance. It should have been obvious from the get go but I guess it being different is more important than it actually working. You are a moron because you're calling people who use the party bonus as intended exploiters. I guess anyone who does something the in the most efficient way is an exploiter, huh? I guess I'm an exploiter if I level up my crafts by spamming cheap synths instead of blowing my bank, too?

It would be an exploit if there was some kind of bug involved but there isn't. Right now SE's party mechanics do not incentivize efficiency the way they do in every other game (because that makes sense), SE's party mechanics on the contrary reward inefficiency. The slower you kill, the more SP you gain, especially your party mates who get to bash the mob for a longer time before it rolls over.

For example, yesterday I made a skill up party and invited a GLD whose only GLD compatible gear was his sword+shield and his L1 pants and shoes (at R18). The rest of his stuff was actually for other classes. He could not tank at all (so me on LNC and our CON just bounced hate), yet I gladly invited him because him simply being there meant more SP for me. This is retarded but that's what we're rewarded to do.

The simple fix is to just scrap the SP system entirely and turn it into a parallel exp system. That's the only way to make sure all current and future problems can be fixed. The SP system is impossible to balance between jobs, between mobs and indeed between individual players. There are too many variables to juggle and it's just going to lead to players finding one way after another to break it (or avoid being hosed by its imbalance) and possibly SE papering over these problems with band-aid fixes that just hurt everyone.

Edited, Nov 3rd 2010 7:17am by Omena

Edited, Nov 3rd 2010 7:21am by Omena
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#31 Nov 03 2010 at 7:04 AM Rating: Default
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lol you guys are really stupid and funny at the same time.

Yes SE should of waited till they released the game, they learnt that.

As for using exploits if you know your doing something Not right then you are an IDIOT for constantly using it. Its like an exploit that existed in FFXI to gain gils. If its an exploit dont be a MORON and abuse it. No it should not exist in the game but abusing it and you get banned dont come here and make 10 threads crying Oh Why Oh Why did I get banned.
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#32 Nov 03 2010 at 7:59 AM Rating: Good
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I don't get what everyone is so worked up for? Who cares if these people using this system get their characters to lvl cap really fast? Is there a prize for doing that? Will it directly effect your own game and how you play? Does it make your subscription price go up?

I don't get it.

Besides the E-Peen growth for the "cheaters" what is so bad about this? Most likely these people will hit the cap, QQ about there not being and end game then quit when their trial period is up or shortly after that.
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#33 Nov 03 2010 at 8:27 AM Rating: Decent
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KingGhidora wrote:
I don't get what everyone is so worked up for? Who cares if these people using this system get their characters to lvl cap really fast? Is there a prize for doing that? Will it directly effect your own game and how you play? Does it make your subscription price go up?

I don't get it.

Besides the E-Peen growth for the "cheaters" what is so bad about this? Most likely these people will hit the cap, QQ about there not being and end game then quit when their trial period is up or shortly after that.


It's not about getting to cap really fast. It's getting to cap even faster using an exploit. A group with 6 people should get the same sp as a group with 6+6 afk.

Allowing exploiters to get away with crap like this, creates a bad atmosphere in the game. Deleting such characters seems to be the course of action, if they don't want to ban outright.
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#34 Nov 03 2010 at 8:57 AM Rating: Good
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KingGhidora wrote:
I don't get what everyone is so worked up for? Who cares if these people using this system get their characters to lvl cap really fast? Is there a prize for doing that? Will it directly effect your own game and how you play? Does it make your subscription price go up?

I don't get it.

Besides the E-Peen growth for the "cheaters" what is so bad about this? Most likely these people will hit the cap, QQ about there not being and end game then quit when their trial period is up or shortly after that.

It may not seem like a big deal (and I've no real opinion how big a deal it is) but I have to worry how SE will "fix" the problem. I just hope it's nothing too extreme.
#35 Nov 03 2010 at 9:27 AM Rating: Default
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Why do you care what they are doing? They are using the system to their advantage and if they would have invited you, you would have said no? Its not like they were stealing your mobs so you couldnt level up or anything. They werent really affecting your gameplay just leveling faster than you and using the system to their advantage that you arent able to do yet.
#36 Nov 03 2010 at 9:34 AM Rating: Decent
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Omena wrote:

No, the morons here are SE and you. SE are morons because they made a progression system that is impossible to balance. It should have been obvious from the get go but I guess it being different is more important than it actually working. You are a moron because you're calling people who use the party bonus as intended exploiters. I guess anyone who does something the in the most efficient way is an exploiter, huh? I guess I'm an exploiter if I level up my crafts by spamming cheap synths instead of blowing my bank, too?


What a wall of useless ******** you just spewed. Do you honestly think SE intended to have players invite people to stand around and do nothing so that the people actually playing could receive a bonus to their SP gains? Of course they didn't. And that's at the heart of determining whether or not something is an exploit: leveraging game mechanics to create gains in ways the developers never intended. Period. There's no rationalizing, no justifying, no lame excuses. An exploit is an exploit.
#37 Nov 03 2010 at 9:45 AM Rating: Default
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EzellLangor wrote:


Q.Q moar

seriously, they are not cheating. They are only using the game mechanics to their advantage. You don't like it, don't join their shell. I sense some jealousy for not being able to do the same.

point: Who cares, play your way. Let others play theirs


Sezzzzzzzz the guy who probably does it every night. Q.Q moar about your means of leveling being threatened.
#38 Nov 03 2010 at 9:46 AM Rating: Default
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First of all, LOLUMADBRO?!?

Now that is out of my system, go down there and ask for an invite. I GUARANTEE you will see that they are not getting 500 SP a kill. Test things out before blow stuff way out proportion. You are confusing exploiting and hours of time put into grinding.

Don't you wish you had a group ready to go when you got online? Don't you wish a great grind spot was reserved just for your linkshell? What is wrong with making those two happen by some simple coordination amongst a linkshell? That is what they are there for. And to be honest, most of the time we don't have party bonus going as the level range of the group is almost always out of it.

Should really check out your claims before making yourself look silly.

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#39 Nov 03 2010 at 10:07 AM Rating: Good
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I too am in favor of mob based sp of action based sp. Then the fix would be easy, only apply the sp bonus for as many members who took part in the fight. As it is now, that would complicate things, as initial sp gains at the very start of the fight would be gimped, and it just shouldn't work that way.

But it annoys me that the current sp system deters you from playing effectively. I want to be a good healer who keeps buffs up, keeps people healed, and doesn't go newb mode and start spamming attacks. In way too many parties, I can't play that way, and it bugs me. You can't just say we need harder mobs either, because usually when I get terrible sp, the melee's all get 300-400+ a kill while the mages get 0-100, and when you try harder mobs, the mages will be getting 500 a kill while the melee get 100-200. It's broken, and I really hope SE fixes it in the planned battle system adjustments in the coming update.

But that's pretty off topic... As for the afk exploit, there really isn't much to do about it. afk people do take up party slots though, so there's that at least. My LS has parties with 15 people now and then, and it can be amazing sp in the right conditions. Just yesterday we were all getting 300-500 a kill all around with fairly fast kills and it was a lot of fun. Just play, and if others do minor non severe exploits like the one in this topic, without hurting anyone else, just forget about them. If SE gets annoyed at it they will do something.
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#40 Nov 03 2010 at 10:11 AM Rating: Good
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Meh, this is just like astral burning, powerleveling yourself in the dunes, or using goblin pets in FFXI. Its using the gameplay mechanics to an advantage, not necessarily cheating.

I could care less about the no-lifer with all jobs at 50, that really doesn't affect me, so it doesn't bother me. Grats to him on a useless accomplishment I guess. Now...when they introduce NMs, make them world spawn, and people create bots and keep them on lockdown til 2015 and charge for the drops, you will hear me RAGE about cheaters. Actually, I'll cancel my subscription if this happens. It sucked in FFXI and is not casual even in the slighest sense.
Its terrible game design and allows a select few to become gazillionaires while the rest of the "lesser" players who either don't bot or can't camp at 5 am are forced to pay these jackasses for the privilege of getting a drop.
#41 Nov 03 2010 at 10:21 AM Rating: Good
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It is shocking it took this long for this obvious "exploit" to be brought up here. The day the stupid party exp system was revealed it should have been obvious this "tactic" was coming.
#42 Nov 03 2010 at 10:56 AM Rating: Decent
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I just want the OP to come down and see what is going on, dude is sooooo incorrect as to what we are actually gaining here. If you are going to call us out might as well let us show him he is very wrong.
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#43 Nov 03 2010 at 11:37 AM Rating: Decent
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Tankue wrote:
I just want the OP to come down and see what is going on, dude is sooooo incorrect as to what we are actually gaining here. If you are going to call us out might as well let us show him he is very wrong.


We're not naive idiots chief, most people know how Eft and Raptor parties work at this point. You're doing something very very wrong if you have a 12-15 man SP Bonus, only half fighting, and are not gaining 500 SP 90% of the time--assuming you're fighting higher HP fare. You could also be quick chaining lower hp stuff for 100-300sp every 10-30 seconds for the same (if not more) SP/HR, but obviously the final result is the same (or better).

Edited, Nov 3rd 2010 1:39pm by Furia
#44 Nov 03 2010 at 12:10 PM Rating: Good
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I didn't mean it as a blanket statement for people using the party bonus with afk people, I am pretty sure the OP is on my server and is talking about my LS. I just wanted to clear it up to him that we are not utilizing this. We know it is possible, and I didn't say you were naive :-p

Wasn't intended to cause a ******* match here, as I couldn't care less about what people do outside my LS and e about those outside of Istory. Just wanted to clear it up for the OP.

Edited, Nov 3rd 2010 2:13pm by Tankue
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#45 Nov 03 2010 at 12:37 PM Rating: Default
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518 posts
jPuff wrote:
EzellLangor wrote:


Q.Q moar

seriously, they are not cheating. They are only using the game mechanics to their advantage. You don't like it, don't join their shell. I sense some jealousy for not being able to do the same.

point: Who cares, play your way. Let others play theirs


Sezzzzzzzz the guy who probably does it every night. Q.Q moar about your means of leveling being threatened.


My profile is on the bottom of my sig.......yeah all those 20+ jobs i have really are taking advantage......

#46 Nov 03 2010 at 4:58 PM Rating: Decent
12 posts
Tankue wrote:
First of all, LOLUMADBRO?!?

Now that is out of my system, go down there and ask for an invite. I GUARANTEE you will see that they are not getting 500 SP a kill. Test things out before blow stuff way out proportion. You are confusing exploiting and hours of time put into grinding.

Don't you wish you had a group ready to go when you got online? Don't you wish a great grind spot was reserved just for your linkshell? What is wrong with making those two happen by some simple coordination amongst a linkshell? That is what they are there for. And to be honest, most of the time we don't have party bonus going as the level range of the group is almost always out of it.

Should really check out your claims before making yourself look silly.

Take care,
Tankue Vedymuch
Daeva of War, Istory


Have no idea who you are, but cant say I was referring to you.

And im not sure what having half your party afk @ a spot has to do with "reserving a spot" If only 7 of you were @ a grind spot, instead of having a full party of 15 half of which is afk how will that affect other people coming in and taking your spot from you (not to mention lets be honest FFXIV doesnt exactly have hordes of people online to take your spot, unless youre talking about afking your guy in town to sell gear) ?

And if they wanted a group ready to go when they got online they could always just logout @ the spot. No reason to say "yeah I might want a group so let me get in their party and afk for several hours till im ready to play".

No offense but your justifications all seem very pointless to me.
#47 Nov 03 2010 at 6:49 PM Rating: Decent
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832 posts
EzellLangor wrote:
Q.Q moar

seriously, they are not cheating.They are only using the game mechanics to their advantage. You don't like it, don't join their shell. I sense some jealousy for not being able to do the same.
point: Who cares, play your way. Let others play theirs

Quote:
They are only using the game mechanics to their advantage.

Quote:
using the game mechanics to their advantage.

Quote:
advantage.


As in exploiting...as in cheating.

All SE needs to do is change it so that the bonus is dependent on active members in the party.
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#48 Nov 03 2010 at 7:52 PM Rating: Decent
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Niknar the Braindead wrote:
EzellLangor wrote:
Q.Q moar

seriously, they are not cheating.They are only using the game mechanics to their advantage. You don't like it, don't join their shell. I sense some jealousy for not being able to do the same.
point: Who cares, play your way. Let others play theirs

Quote:
They are only using the game mechanics to their advantage.

Quote:
using the game mechanics to their advantage.

Quote:
advantage.


As in exploiting...as in cheating.

All SE needs to do is change it so that the bonus is dependent on active members in the party.


Umm verbal jujitsu doesn't make you right. They are doing nothing wrong. By your standard PL'n in FXI is cheating. Because the person outside the PT can tank the mobs and cast cure on the PT they can level up faster than a non-PL'd group. Or how about the group that invites the 75 BRD to PL them? That cheating?

Just because you don't like what they are doing, and probably cause you can't do it your self doesn't mean what they are doing is cheating. They are using the system as is designed.

I bet everyone in here also complained about SMN burning in XI....ohhh that's not fair!!!!! Ban em!!! It's the same thing. No one is breaking any game rule here. Like I said above If you don't like it don't do it. Don't join their shell, don't interact with them in game. Otherwise STFU stop being winney little ******* about people playing the game different than you and man up.

P.S. Go ahead and sub-default me for calling you cry babies out....Wambulance. We're not talking about a salvage dupe or Bot hax here, we're talking about an extreme method to PL.
#49 Nov 03 2010 at 9:40 PM Rating: Default
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EzellLangor wrote:

Umm verbal jujitsu doesn't make you right. They are doing nothing wrong. By your standard PL'n in FXI is cheating. Because the person outside the PT can tank the mobs and cast cure on the PT they can level up faster than a non-PL'd group. Or how about the group that invites the 75 BRD to PL them? That cheating?


You...and everyone else in this thread defending this exploit...need to just stop for a second and think.

You're comparing an exploit involving having numerous party members in the party and in the area but AFK so that the active players can earn an SP bonus based on the presence of those AFK members to a PL in FFXI that still requires party members to be active. If you've got a PL cure bombing themselves, someone still has to kill the mob.

Quote:
Just because you don't like what they are doing, and probably cause you can't do it your self doesn't mean what they are doing is cheating. They are using the system as is designed.


Don't be stupid. They're not using the system as designed. Their manipulating the design of the system in a way for which it was never intended. If the best you have to offer is the argument of a 12 year old, just shut up now and stop taking up space.

Quote:
I bet everyone in here also complained about SMN burning in XI....ohhh that's not fair!!!!! Ban em!!! It's the same thing. No one is breaking any game rule here. Like I said above If you don't like it don't do it. Don't join their shell, don't interact with them in game. Otherwise STFU stop being winney little ******* about people playing the game different than you and man up.


If SMN burning had involved having half your party just standing around AFK for passive buffs based on proximity then yes, people would most likely have complained. Again, stop being stupid.

Quote:
P.S. Go ahead and sub-default me for calling you cry babies out....Wambulance. We're not talking about a salvage dupe or Bot hax here, we're talking about an extreme method to PL.


We're talking about a bunch of slack jawed yokels that are risking bans so they can rush to the cap in a game with no endgame. In other words, stupid people doing stupid things for stupid reasons.
#50 Nov 03 2010 at 10:17 PM Rating: Decent
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518 posts
Quote:
You...and everyone else in this thread defending this exploit...need to just stop for a second and think.

You're comparing an exploit involving having numerous party members in the party and in the area but AFK so that the active players can earn an SP bonus based on the presence of those AFK members to a PL in FFXI that still requires party members to be active. If you've got a PL cure bombing themselves, someone still has to kill the mob.


Comparing a small group of active players taking advantage of hate mechanics so that 5 mele can pull in 12k plus XP per hour to a small group of active plauers taking advantage of SP bonus mechanics so that a 3-4 man PT can pull in 8-10k SP per hour.

Yeah no comparison there........It's the same thing. A PL allowed for fewer players doing "Auto Attack" to fight mobs well beyond their level and use specific jobs to win battles in a manner that wouldn't be able to be accomplished without the PL tanking and curing the PT. The 14 version of PL is that the active players still need to fight the mob however, they still need to be able to survive the fight and have a balanced PT. You are still using others to push your SP/XP gain to levels that you alone or in a real PT would not be able to achieve.

And your argument that a real person needs to be at the helm of a PL......hi to u scripting/bot/spellcast. It's the same concept just applied differently but the end result is the same.

Quote:
Don't be stupid. They're not using the system as designed. Their manipulating the design of the system in a way for which it was never intended. If the best you have to offer is the argument of a 12 year old, just shut up now and stop taking up space.


You are being the stupid one. You are assuming that your idea of "right" and "wrong" application of the system is the same as SE. While the system was not set up for a 15 man PT to be full of 14 AFK people and have 1 person pulling down more SP per fight than normal, that still is operating within the confines of the system, what if all those other 14 where healers? And all they did was spam cure while 1 mele fought the mobs for the same time. The mele would get the same SP as if those healers were afk. Nothing has changed, except now 14 other people are spamming an action. People being AFK or not doesn't affect the SP gain of one individual or not, it's the size of the PT and that was SE's intent. Larger party larger SP bonus.

I will side with you that getting the bonus while your buddies where in LL crafting while you were @ horizon killing dodo's is a bit much and it needed to be fixed. However, the current system is fine. And you're argument that it's an exploit based on the fact that there are inactive players boosting the SP gain of a smaller active group. Well what about froming a PT and having a member go afk for an hour? I did that today, kept a PT member in the PT afk for an hour to get his SP bonus. Is that an exploit? He was active for 2 hours, where is the line drawn?

The SP system rewards slower killing with more players. It's not XI and birds where the fastest time is the best Xp/hour. People are using the system as is designed and are stretching fights out longer with more members to get more SP.

#51 Nov 03 2010 at 10:19 PM Rating: Default
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They are not using the system as it was intended, but at the same time they aren't exploiting a glitch. It is the system that was written, it's just a poorly designed system. You would think SE would know that gamers are generally looking for ways to beat the system, and would have seen this coming. You know in FFXI they never intended Ninja's to be tanks at first, gamers are the ones that made that happen, so we weren't using that system as it was intended, it wasnt an exploit either. It was just an oversight that we took advantage of. Same thing here really.

I'm not defending what these guys are doing, I just couldn't care less. I think it's kind of silly that the dev team wouldn't see this coming though.


Edited, Nov 4th 2010 1:07am by KristoFurwalken
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