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Will they ban the LS's that cheat? Follow

#52 Nov 03 2010 at 10:43 PM Rating: Decent
12 posts
KristoFurwalken wrote:
They are not using the system as it was intended, but at the same time they aren't exploiting a glitch.

Edited, Nov 4th 2010 12:21am by KristoFurwalken


Thats exactly what it is though. They ARE exploiting a glitch. Whether you want to call it cheating or not fines thats a different story.

And for people saying "oh what if someone goes afk for an hour"

Theres a blatant difference between a glitch, and blatant exploitation. If an atm machine gives you 101$ when you make a 100$ withdrawl thats a glitch. If you deposit and withdraw money 100,000 times youd end up in prison.

If people dont know how to use common sense by now, you probably shouldnt be playing a game with other people.
#53 Nov 03 2010 at 11:10 PM Rating: Default
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EzellLangor wrote:
Quote:
You...and everyone else in this thread defending this exploit...need to just stop for a second and think.

You're comparing an exploit involving having numerous party members in the party and in the area but AFK so that the active players can earn an SP bonus based on the presence of those AFK members to a PL in FFXI that still requires party members to be active. If you've got a PL cure bombing themselves, someone still has to kill the mob.


Comparing a small group of active players taking advantage of hate mechanics so that 5 mele can pull in 12k plus XP per hour to a small group of active plauers taking advantage of SP bonus mechanics so that a 3-4 man PT can pull in 8-10k SP per hour.


It's not a comparison of results. It's a comparison of methods. I always felt leveling in XI with a PL was lame, and it started to undermine the game when people would refuse to group unless a PL was present. As long as this newest XIV exploit doesn't make it difficult for me to get a party unless I agree to stay parked at camp when I'm done for the night, what others are doing doesn't hurt me. I have nothing invested in the stupid choices of others. All I'm saying is that your arguments to suggest it's not an exploit are stupid, and if you do wind up getting banned over it, be a sport and keep your sniveling rants to yourself.

Quote:
And your argument that a real person needs to be at the helm of a PL......hi to u scripting/bot/spellcast. It's the same concept just applied differently but the end result is the same.


Right...so PLing with a bot is the same as leaving people AFK for the SP bonus. Great parallel there, sporty.

Quote:
You are being the stupid one. You are assuming that your idea of "right" and "wrong" application of the system is the same as SE. While the system was not set up for a 15 man PT to be full of 14 AFK people and have 1 person pulling down more SP per fight than normal, that still is operating within the confines of the system, what if all those other 14 where healers? And all they did was spam cure while 1 mele fought the mobs for the same time. The mele would get the same SP as if those healers were afk. Nothing has changed, except now 14 other people are spamming an action. People being AFK or not doesn't affect the SP gain of one individual or not, it's the size of the PT and that was SE's intent. Larger party larger SP bonus.


Ya, except people already tried the "spam heals in a group under the effects of Guardian's Favor without actually trying to kill the mob until the timer is almost expired" and they got their SP rolled back or they got banned. Again, awesome example. Are you going out of your way to undermine your own position, or do you simply lack the intellectual capacity to form a cogent argument?

Quote:
The SP system rewards slower killing with more players. It's not XI and birds where the fastest time is the best Xp/hour. People are using the system as is designed and are stretching fights out longer with more members to get more SP.


They're using the system based on how it was designed, but they're not using the system based on how it was intended and that's when it becomes an exploit.
#54KristoFurwalken, Posted: Nov 03 2010 at 11:12 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Well, staying with the same analogy.
#55 Nov 04 2010 at 12:05 AM Rating: Decent
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KristoFurwalken wrote:
Kalaildar wrote:
KristoFurwalken wrote:
They are not using the system as it was intended, but at the same time they aren't exploiting a glitch.

Edited, Nov 4th 2010 12:21am by KristoFurwalken


Thats exactly what it is though. They ARE exploiting a glitch. Whether you want to call it cheating or not fines thats a different story.

And for people saying "oh what if someone goes afk for an hour"

Theres a blatant difference between a glitch, and blatant exploitation. If an atm machine gives you 101$ when you make a 100$ withdrawl thats a glitch. If you deposit and withdraw money 100,000 times youd end up in prison.

If people dont know how to use common sense by now, you probably shouldnt be playing a game with other people.


Well, staying with the same analogy.

If your ATM unintentionally gave you $101 when you tried to make a $100 withdrawl, due to a programming error that is a glitch.

If your bank had a deal that if you and 15 of your family members used the same account, you would get an extra $10 everytime you made a withdrawl, thats just a stupid design in their system. It isn't a glitch.


And if you list 8 dead family members as shared holders of the account, you'd be guilty of fraud. You're not bright enough for this conversation. I'm sorry...I've given you a few posts now to demonstrate you've got a clue and you just keep getting worse and worse. SE will ultimately decide whether or not what you and others are doing is an exploit and if they decide it is, enjoy your ban. That's all there is to it.
#56 Nov 04 2010 at 7:55 AM Rating: Good
I'm pretty sure SE is going to do something about this issue. To all those taking advantage of it, enjoy it while you can, and hope you don't get penalized for it. I can think of nothing more painful to a level cap e-peen than being rolled back, or temp banned for a week. Knowing that while you can't play people are getting skill points. Ouch, wouldn't that be excruciating!? Forgive my tone, it's probably obvious which side I'm on here.

To reiterate a point that doesn't seem to be sinking into some heads: Using any system in a way in which it was not intended, is an exploit. I'm not trying to tell anyone to not do it. Have fun, party your little hearts out. As Aurelius put it, the "WTF bant?" threads will be entertaining if nothing else. Let me step off my soap box of morality with some constructive feedback.

The idea of being tagged AFK after a certain amount of time is cool, even if you were in a party, having an AFK status would make it like you were not a member. What about a system which would only reward SP to members that had enmity on the mob being fought? I got it! How about people don't take advantage of an obvious exploit and let SE fix it? Wait, that will never work.

-- Edit --

I quit this thread.

Edited, Nov 4th 2010 1:04pm by mattkujata
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#57 Nov 04 2010 at 10:24 AM Rating: Default
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Aurelius wrote:
KristoFurwalken wrote:
Kalaildar wrote:
KristoFurwalken wrote:
They are not using the system as it was intended, but at the same time they aren't exploiting a glitch.

Edited, Nov 4th 2010 12:21am by KristoFurwalken


Thats exactly what it is though. They ARE exploiting a glitch. Whether you want to call it cheating or not fines thats a different story.

And for people saying "oh what if someone goes afk for an hour"

Theres a blatant difference between a glitch, and blatant exploitation. If an atm machine gives you 101$ when you make a 100$ withdrawl thats a glitch. If you deposit and withdraw money 100,000 times youd end up in prison.

If people dont know how to use common sense by now, you probably shouldnt be playing a game with other people.


Well, staying with the same analogy.

If your ATM unintentionally gave you $101 when you tried to make a $100 withdrawl, due to a programming error that is a glitch.

If your bank had a deal that if you and 15 of your family members used the same account, you would get an extra $10 everytime you made a withdrawl, thats just a stupid design in their system. It isn't a glitch.


And if you list 8 dead family members as shared holders of the account, you'd be guilty of fraud. You're not bright enough for this conversation. I'm sorry...I've given you a few posts now to demonstrate you've got a clue and you just keep getting worse and worse. SE will ultimately decide whether or not what you and others are doing is an exploit and if they decide it is, enjoy your ban. That's all there is to it.


No just no.. that is breaking the law.. the gaming version of this is multi-client botting.. so please GTFO with your logic… You can’t exactly register dead members as a shareholder to an account anyways.. in America they would check social sec. numbers.. and would immediately catch you for fraud or simply deny you account benefits.. breaking the law and using the law to your advantage are 2 vastly different things.. Say for example you beat someone up brutally… but in the court of law… you can use the right to self defense and get away spot clean, it’s a flaw to benefit every victim of abuse so they can defend themselves without repercussion..

What I don’t get is, this is a great flaw in the FFXIV leveling system, that everyone should take advantage of, the bonus isn’t really WTF.. And it should help you level quite a bit in order to balance out the terrible grind fest that is the game.. People that QQ are the stupid morons that apparently likes grinding for centuries to hit cap… I get it you don’t like reaching cap level, but why exactly should that stop others from reaching cap? Yes people that play for obscene amounts of time should greatly benefit from this, they deserve it after all for being so dedicated in this game.. Either that way they will eventually hit the surplus wall anyways.. so this is nothing like the healing exploit..

I bet my house and my steam account dragonrage25 that Square Enix will not ban anyone for this..

In general stop QQing like a little “female dog” and enjoy the game and use every feature to it’s fullest extent..

For those afraid of getting banned.. Don’t… because if you think about it, there is really no way for SE to know you were using this feature anyways because in the player level exp log it should just looks like you were leveling with a party… Knowing how stupid, lazy, and how backwards SE is.. they are not going to go to the extreme in checking accounts… the reason the healing exploit was so easy to catch was that ultra huge absurd numbers for exp gain a player would gain per fight… The difference from afk farming exp bonus and normal exp from no party.. is so marginal as to be almost undetectable by SE’s retarded as **** programmers.. Imagine this, an SE staff sitting on his computer and putting a filter for any players gaining more than >400 sp per battle (assuming they actually record and save players using a database)… he gets 7000 hits… Do you honestly think he will go through every single person to see if they are legit or not? Yeah… NO catching botters would be easier..

Edited, Nov 4th 2010 12:32pm by nick2412

Edited, Nov 4th 2010 12:33pm by nick2412

Edited, Nov 4th 2010 12:43pm by nick2412
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#58 Nov 04 2010 at 10:56 AM Rating: Default
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Aurelius wrote:

It's not a comparison of results. It's a comparison of methods. I always felt leveling in XI with a PL was lame, and it started to undermine the game when people would refuse to group unless a PL was present. As long as this newest XIV exploit doesn't make it difficult for me to get a party unless I agree to stay parked at camp when I'm done for the night, what others are doing doesn't hurt me. I have nothing invested in the stupid choices of others. All I'm saying is that your arguments to suggest it's not an exploit are stupid, and if you do wind up getting banned over it, be a sport and keep your sniveling rants to yourself.


You are missing the point. No matter the comparison PL'n, SMN burn, AFK SP buffing, ect... It's all the same thing. It's the means to get to the end. How do you level/rank up faster and easier in a game that is designed to drag your experience out? This isn't a comparison of what method is best to achieve the ends. The ends are the same. So any method to achieve those ends is the exact same. If you want to say that one method is better or less worse than the next you are being intellectuality dishonest with your self. Since none of the methods I compared are considered cheating there is no "degree" by which to compare them. So either they are all O.K. or none of them are O.K.

Quote:
Quote:
And your argument that a real person needs to be at the helm of a PL......hi to u scripting/bot/spellcast. It's the same concept just applied differently but the end result is the same.


Right...so PLing with a bot is the same as leaving people AFK for the SP bonus. Great parallel there, sporty.


PL'n with a bot/script/spellcast can fall into the same area of "afk" players boosting SP/EXP gain. Now I will agree that a PL bot is an extreme example but it still falls into your argument. That this case of "AFK PL'n" is different than normal PL'n because a PL has to always be there. They don't, a script in XI could run your PL for you. So then your argument again comes down to "degrees." What is the line that your draw to determine "cheating?" Cause like I said your line is way different than SE's.

Again, the argument is about the means to the ends. I'm simply showing that there are many methods that people used in XI that following your line of logic would be considered "exploiting" that were not and many players took advantage of. The results are the same, more SP/XP you are trying to define the "acceptable" line and my self and others are trying to point out that your line is not SE's.


Quote:
Ya, except people already tried the "spam heals in a group under the effects of Guardian's Favor without actually trying to kill the mob until the timer is almost expired" and they got their SP rolled back or they got banned. Again, awesome example. Are you going out of your way to undermine your own position, or do you simply lack the intellectual capacity to form a cogent argument?


The spam heal was a different method than what I have explained. The system was broken and was awarding points for each cure to each individual rather than for each cure. SE clearly stated that the system was broken and not working as intended. Hence why they gave people the chance to come clean. However, the "ban hammer" didn't fall too hard if at all. The first few 50 rank jobs were all healer classes who more than likely took advantage of the glitch. They are still around. What I was trying to show and you missed is that 1 player could have 14 other people in the PT not working towards killing the mob in anyway, but the same result can happen. More SP.

Again your argument is based on "degrees." It's ok for 14 people to do something other than afk in a PT to boost SP for one person. But once they go afk, it's cheating...That's what you are saying.

Quote:
Quote:
The SP system rewards slower killing with more players. It's not XI and birds where the fastest time is the best Xp/hour. People are using the system as is designed and are stretching fights out longer with more members to get more SP.


They're using the system based on how it was designed, but they're not using the system based on how it was intended and that's when it becomes an exploit.
[/quote]

By your definition of exploit and intent. I'll say it one more time, your argument is about definition and degrees. And if that is the case we will never agree on this issue. We can agree on the extremes as i'm sure SE would as well. However, on the grey...you, me, and SE have different ideas and in the end the only opinion that matters is SE's and their desire to fix or change the system.
#59 Nov 04 2010 at 11:29 AM Rating: Default
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I am going to try this later today on sea puks and dodo near LL have 14 people go afk while me and two other s kill fast with them on follow.
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#60 Nov 04 2010 at 11:51 AM Rating: Decent
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It's good to see that some things (and people) never change...

This whole matter is grey area. I've read the entire thread, and I can see the validity to both sides of the argument. First off, I agree that it is taking advantage of game mechanics. In that regards, I think it is fair to say that it is an exploit.

However, I also understand that the exploit isn't adversely effecting anyone. It is a SLIGHT bonus to a system that is so grossly flawed that I think it is very easy to see why people use/support it. I agree that it is in no way different than powerlevels in ffxi, which I feel must also be constituted as an exploit. In ffxi, you weren't intended to have an outside healer cure bombing you and tanking mobs. Once again it is taking advantage of the game mechanics. SE could have easily fixed it by reducing any xp recieved to a group that had an outside healer, but they didn't. They also didn't ban anyone for it. Until people start getting banned (or even warned) about this, I don't see it as anything more than people taking advantage of a faulty system. I personally won't abuse it (or at least not in a 15 man party), but that's my own personal preference.



Edited, Nov 4th 2010 2:01pm by BartelX
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#61 Nov 04 2010 at 12:08 PM Rating: Decent
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As a conjurer, I find the current system flawed. There are times when my party is fighting, and all I do is spamm dart, as not much healing is required. I usually get very little sp in these battles. There are other times when there are 3 or more conjurers in the party, so sp from cures tends to be few and far between. Then there is the issue of cures/ buffs outside of combat, for which I get no reward other than aggro, if the puller engages in combat halfway thru my cast.

And don't start with the "WTF 3 conjurers in 1 party" crap. It's hard enough to put a party together in this game, I ain't gonna kick someone cause we already have enough healers.



#62 Nov 04 2010 at 12:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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SP needs to be divided among all members in the party, equally.
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#63EzellLangor, Posted: Nov 04 2010 at 12:43 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Sanity in a post. That's the answer. If you don't like it don't do it. Simple as that. The high ranked individuals arn't effecting the game in any way. A rank 50 glad isn't making my GLD play any different, infact I have more access to more things because I can play with more people. The people really messing the game are those crafters already dining rank 50....They are overinflating the price of goods and driving up the cost of shards. But those guys only spam standard for hours and hours a day.
#64 Nov 04 2010 at 4:09 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Umm verbal jujitsu doesn't make you right. They are doing nothing wrong. By your standard PL'n in FXI is cheating. Because the person outside the PT can tank the mobs and cast cure on the PT they can level up faster than a non-PL'd group. Or how about the group that invites the 75 BRD to PL them? That cheating?

Just because you don't like what they are doing, and probably cause you can't do it your self doesn't mean what they are doing is cheating. They are using the system as is designed.

I bet everyone in here also complained about SMN burning in XI....ohhh that's not fair!!!!! Ban em!!! It's the same thing. No one is breaking any game rule here. Like I said above If you don't like it don't do it. Don't join their shell, don't interact with them in game. Otherwise STFU stop being winney little ******* about people playing the game different than you and man up.

P.S. Go ahead and sub-default me for calling you cry babies out....Wambulance. We're not talking about a salvage dupe or Bot hax here, we're talking about an extreme method to PL.


Yet PLing still requires full participation of the party and the PLer your example fails as bad as your 5th grade insults.
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#65 Nov 04 2010 at 4:25 PM Rating: Default
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good chance there RMT, i cant think of a person who can actually do this all day i seen lv late 30's and that was a couple weeks ago. thats no life at all jesus.
#66 Nov 04 2010 at 5:11 PM Rating: Decent
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EzellLangor wrote:
Aurelius wrote:

It's not a comparison of results. It's a comparison of methods. I always felt leveling in XI with a PL was lame, and it started to undermine the game when people would refuse to group unless a PL was present. As long as this newest XIV exploit doesn't make it difficult for me to get a party unless I agree to stay parked at camp when I'm done for the night, what others are doing doesn't hurt me. I have nothing invested in the stupid choices of others. All I'm saying is that your arguments to suggest it's not an exploit are stupid, and if you do wind up getting banned over it, be a sport and keep your sniveling rants to yourself.


You are missing the point.


No I'm not. You are, so I'm going to spell it out for you one last time:

Something is labeled an exploit when you manipulate game mechanics in a way that was not intended by the developer in order to create a benefit beyond what the developer had intended for you to receive based on the situation.

You'd have to be a right sodding moron to think SE intended for people to keep AFK players in their parties for hours to milk the SP bonus, so don't even try to rationalize it anymore. Save the walls of text for the morons you normally associate with...they mean approximately jack to me.
#67 Nov 04 2010 at 5:18 PM Rating: Good
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Ponderosa wrote:
As a conjurer, I find the current system flawed. There are times when my party is fighting, and all I do is spamm dart, as not much healing is required. I usually get very little sp in these battles. There are other times when there are 3 or more conjurers in the party, so sp from cures tends to be few and far between. Then there is the issue of cures/ buffs outside of combat, for which I get no reward other than aggro, if the puller engages in combat halfway thru my cast.

And don't start with the "WTF 3 conjurers in 1 party" crap. It's hard enough to put a party together in this game, I ain't gonna kick someone cause we already have enough healers.


I agree with you 100% here.

+1
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#68 Nov 04 2010 at 8:39 PM Rating: Default
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Aurelius wrote:

No I'm not. You are, so I'm going to spell it out for you one last time:

Something is labeled an exploit when you manipulate game mechanics in a way that was not intended by the developer in order to create a benefit beyond what the developer had intended for you to receive based on the situation.

You'd have to be a right sodding moron to think SE intended for people to keep AFK players in their parties for hours to milk the SP bonus, so don't even try to rationalize it anymore. Save the walls of text for the morons you normally associate with...they mean approximately jack to me.


1: i'm done being civil, **** your self
2: No mechanics are being manipulated, sorry....
3: Loud noises don't make you right, again **** your self.
#69 Nov 04 2010 at 8:45 PM Rating: Default
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EzellLangor wrote:
Aurelius wrote:

No I'm not. You are, so I'm going to spell it out for you one last time:

Something is labeled an exploit when you manipulate game mechanics in a way that was not intended by the developer in order to create a benefit beyond what the developer had intended for you to receive based on the situation.

You'd have to be a right sodding moron to think SE intended for people to keep AFK players in their parties for hours to milk the SP bonus, so don't even try to rationalize it anymore. Save the walls of text for the morons you normally associate with...they mean approximately jack to me.


1: i'm done being civil, @#%^ your self
2: No mechanics are being manipulated, sorry....
3: Loud noises don't make you right, again @#%^ your self.


I'd say it's obvious you ran out of decent arguments to support your point, but you never had any to begin with. Ya'll probably wouldn't be getting so defensive if you didn't already know it was wrong, so play your little denial game if you need to and we'll let SE sort it out.
#70 Nov 04 2010 at 9:50 PM Rating: Default
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Aurelius wrote:
EzellLangor wrote:
Aurelius wrote:

No I'm not. You are, so I'm going to spell it out for you one last time:

Something is labeled an exploit when you manipulate game mechanics in a way that was not intended by the developer in order to create a benefit beyond what the developer had intended for you to receive based on the situation.

You'd have to be a right sodding moron to think SE intended for people to keep AFK players in their parties for hours to milk the SP bonus, so don't even try to rationalize it anymore. Save the walls of text for the morons you normally associate with...they mean approximately jack to me.


1: i'm done being civil, @#%^ your self
2: No mechanics are being manipulated, sorry....
3: Loud noises don't make you right, again @#%^ your self.


I'd say it's obvious you ran out of decent arguments to support your point, but you never had any to begin with. Ya'll probably wouldn't be getting so defensive if you didn't already know it was wrong, so play your little denial game if you need to and we'll let SE sort it out.


sp bonus is sp bonus.. I fail to see how that is an exploit.. so what do you want SE to do.. remove sp party bonuses? Would that make you happy? **** why don't SE just remove parties altogether and save us all the trouble of arguing over a fail party system that SE has created...

All the talk about intention is crap is starting to get stupid and illogical.. are you the CEO of Square Enix? Are you a developer? You are talking on a god dam fan forum.. you are nothing.. therefore you shouldn't be able to understand square enix's intention.. so stop talking like you're the spokesperson for SE.. For all we know afking to help your fellow players is SE's intention for leveling.. SO GTFO

I just don't get why can't they just have a dam balanced exp distributing.. is it that maddening hard? It's almost like they took everything that was good from FFXI and flip it upside down then add in a tedious twist to it.. THE FOCK is wrong with SE?!!?

Edited, Nov 4th 2010 11:50pm by nick2412

Edited, Nov 4th 2010 11:52pm by nick2412
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#71 Nov 04 2010 at 9:56 PM Rating: Good
12 posts
nick2412 wrote:
Aurelius wrote:
EzellLangor wrote:
Aurelius wrote:

No I'm not. You are, so I'm going to spell it out for you one last time:

Something is labeled an exploit when you manipulate game mechanics in a way that was not intended by the developer in order to create a benefit beyond what the developer had intended for you to receive based on the situation.

You'd have to be a right sodding moron to think SE intended for people to keep AFK players in their parties for hours to milk the SP bonus, so don't even try to rationalize it anymore. Save the walls of text for the morons you normally associate with...they mean approximately jack to me.


1: i'm done being civil, @#%^ your self
2: No mechanics are being manipulated, sorry....
3: Loud noises don't make you right, again @#%^ your self.


I'd say it's obvious you ran out of decent arguments to support your point, but you never had any to begin with. Ya'll probably wouldn't be getting so defensive if you didn't already know it was wrong, so play your little denial game if you need to and we'll let SE sort it out.


sp bonus is sp bonus.. I fail to see how that is an exploit.. so what do you want SE to do.. remove sp party bonuses? Would that make you happy? **** why don't SE just remove parties altogether and save us all the trouble of arguing over a fail party system that SE has created...

All the talk about intention is crap is starting to get stupid and illogical.. are you the CEO of Square Enix? Are you a developer? You are talking on a god dam fan forum.. you are nothing.. therefore you shouldn't be able to understand square enix's intention.. so stop talking like you're the spokesperson for SE.. For all we know afking to help your fellow players is SE's intention for leveling.. SO GTFO

I just don't get why can't they just have a dam balanced exp distributing.. is it that maddening hard? It's almost like they took everything that was good from FFXI and flip it upside down then add in a tedious twist to it.. THE FOCK is wrong with SE?!!?

Edited, Nov 4th 2010 11:50pm by nick2412

Edited, Nov 4th 2010 11:52pm by nick2412


If you fail to see how this is an exploit then theres something severely wrong with you.
You honestly think they made the system the way that it is so you should go out and find people to join your party and go AFK ? Seriously ? Have you EVER heard of any video game maker EVER doing anything even remotely like this ?

Nothing personal, but youre obviously either a troll or an idiot.
#72 Nov 04 2010 at 10:05 PM Rating: Default
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nick2412 wrote:
sp bonus is sp bonus.. I fail to see how that is an exploit..


Tell that to the banned healers after SE caught on to the Guardian's Favor exploit.

Quote:
All the talk about intention is crap is starting to get stupid and illogical.. are you the CEO of Square Enix? Are you a developer? You are talking on a god dam fan forum.. you are nothing.. therefore you shouldn't be able to understand square enix's intention.. so stop talking like you're the spokesperson for SE.. For all we know afking to help your fellow players is SE's intention for leveling.. SO GTFO


Nice. I don't even have to argue with half of the nutjobs defending this crap...they demonstrate their stupidity on their own.
#73 Nov 04 2010 at 10:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Kalaildar wrote:
nick2412 wrote:
Aurelius wrote:
EzellLangor wrote:
Aurelius wrote:

No I'm not. You are, so I'm going to spell it out for you one last time:

Something is labeled an exploit when you manipulate game mechanics in a way that was not intended by the developer in order to create a benefit beyond what the developer had intended for you to receive based on the situation.

You'd have to be a right sodding moron to think SE intended for people to keep AFK players in their parties for hours to milk the SP bonus, so don't even try to rationalize it anymore. Save the walls of text for the morons you normally associate with...they mean approximately jack to me.


1: i'm done being civil, @#%^ your self
2: No mechanics are being manipulated, sorry....
3: Loud noises don't make you right, again @#%^ your self.


I'd say it's obvious you ran out of decent arguments to support your point, but you never had any to begin with. Ya'll probably wouldn't be getting so defensive if you didn't already know it was wrong, so play your little denial game if you need to and we'll let SE sort it out.


sp bonus is sp bonus.. I fail to see how that is an exploit.. so what do you want SE to do.. remove sp party bonuses? Would that make you happy? **** why don't SE just remove parties altogether and save us all the trouble of arguing over a fail party system that SE has created...

All the talk about intention is crap is starting to get stupid and illogical.. are you the CEO of Square Enix? Are you a developer? You are talking on a god dam fan forum.. you are nothing.. therefore you shouldn't be able to understand square enix's intention.. so stop talking like you're the spokesperson for SE.. For all we know afking to help your fellow players is SE's intention for leveling.. SO GTFO

I just don't get why can't they just have a dam balanced exp distributing.. is it that maddening hard? It's almost like they took everything that was good from FFXI and flip it upside down then add in a tedious twist to it.. THE FOCK is wrong with SE?!!?

Edited, Nov 4th 2010 11:50pm by nick2412

Edited, Nov 4th 2010 11:52pm by nick2412


If you fail to see how this is an exploit then theres something severely wrong with you.
You honestly think they made the system the way that it is so you should go out and find people to join your party and go AFK ? Seriously ? Have you EVER heard of any video game maker EVER doing anything even remotely like this ?

Nothing personal, but youre obviously either a troll or an idiot.


I find your lack of gaming diversity slightly disturbing.. Actually just kidding I am actually in shock at your level of gaming diversity... Let's list a few MMORPG that follow the "afk party bonus" exploit

- silkroad online.. people make these 4 man parties.. with random pug groups from like across the dam world map.. just to get party bonuses while not even being remotely near each other.. you can be completely afk.. but whoever is playing will get the pt bonus... Don't even get me started on sp leveling at ongs.. FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
- Powerleveling .. every game has it.. whether it be holy balls that was fast.. or **** slow like FFXIV grind.. there is still powerleveling.. **** I remember doing Baal runs with a group of 80s just to speed level my noob necromancer.. I would be semi-afk.. i.e. going through portal switches once in awhile for different areas for power leveling.. I could be watching anime while doing this.. it was that easy..
- Battle of the immortals.. the game even has an afk leveling feature..
- oh yeah afking in WoW battleground... lololololo.. ok I admit that was a just a tiny bit of bad sportsmanship..
- afk party power leveling in Granado Espada online... dam that follow feature a long with the awesome AI..
____________________________
WoW: we want to give players a more fun time with less grinding and generic quests
GW2: we want the player to feel like they are leveling while doing something fun
Final Fantasy XIV: we want less fun and more grinding
#74 Nov 04 2010 at 10:25 PM Rating: Decent
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196 posts
Aurelius wrote:
nick2412 wrote:
sp bonus is sp bonus.. I fail to see how that is an exploit..


Tell that to the banned healers after SE caught on to the Guardian's Favor exploit.



Quote:
All the talk about intention is crap is starting to get stupid and illogical.. are you the CEO of Square Enix? Are you a developer? You are talking on a god dam fan forum.. you are nothing.. therefore you shouldn't be able to understand square enix's intention.. so stop talking like you're the spokesperson for SE.. For all we know afking to help your fellow players is SE's intention for leveling.. SO GTFO


Nice. I don't even have to argue with half of the nutjobs defending this crap...they demonstrate their stupidity on their own.


You are replying so in essence your are arguing.. dumbass..

Healing was an exploit simply because it bypass on the limits on leveling that SE placed in to the game.. and it was also easy to pin point someone gaining a couple thousand sp per kill which was pretty much impossible at low ranks..

The afk party leveling is not an exploit.. you are gaining a marginal advantage.. is a half a month to a month difference in hitting level cap really hurt you that much? Oh wait it probably does.. WAAAMBALANCE!!
____________________________
WoW: we want to give players a more fun time with less grinding and generic quests
GW2: we want the player to feel like they are leveling while doing something fun
Final Fantasy XIV: we want less fun and more grinding
#75 Nov 04 2010 at 11:21 PM Rating: Default
*****
11,576 posts
nick2412 wrote:
Aurelius wrote:
nick2412 wrote:
sp bonus is sp bonus.. I fail to see how that is an exploit..


Tell that to the banned healers after SE caught on to the Guardian's Favor exploit.



Quote:
All the talk about intention is crap is starting to get stupid and illogical.. are you the CEO of Square Enix? Are you a developer? You are talking on a god dam fan forum.. you are nothing.. therefore you shouldn't be able to understand square enix's intention.. so stop talking like you're the spokesperson for SE.. For all we know afking to help your fellow players is SE's intention for leveling.. SO GTFO


Nice. I don't even have to argue with half of the nutjobs defending this crap...they demonstrate their stupidity on their own.


You are replying so in essence your are arguing.. dumbass..

Healing was an exploit simply because it bypass on the limits on leveling that SE placed in to the game.. and it was also easy to pin point someone gaining a couple thousand sp per kill which was pretty much impossible at low ranks..

The afk party leveling is not an exploit.. you are gaining a marginal advantage.. is a half a month to a month difference in hitting level cap really hurt you that much? Oh wait it probably does.. WAAAMBALANCE!!


You off your meds there, guy?
#76 Nov 04 2010 at 11:54 PM Rating: Default
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518 posts
Don't bother nick,

I tried the same route and all i got was "@#%^ you idiot!" So no use, tell em to @#%^ off and be done with it. He obviously is the king god of what is right and wrong in a video game and can arbitrarily and inconsistently call one action a "exploit" while labeling another "ok" when in simple terms they are the same thing, using game mechanics to your advantage. Guess that's why all those SMN burn PT's in Korra got the "ban hammer" to fall so hard, cause you know SE had no intention of players gathering 100's of mobs and astral burning them down to the ground for 60k XP in like 30 min. Oh yeah where is your "ban them all!!!" fevor!

Seriously end this topic there is no middle ground. You think your way and we'll think ours and the only opinion that matters is SE's.

* Also I love how he showed you examples of where this type of leveling is used in other MMO's and you totally dismiss it, and instead insult him. What's good ol' Saul say "Don't debate the message, attack the messenger."

Edited, Nov 4th 2010 11:56pm by EzellLangor
#77 Nov 05 2010 at 12:04 AM Rating: Decent
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11,576 posts
EzellLangor wrote:
Don't bother nick,

I tried the same route and all i got was "@#%^ you idiot!" So no use, tell em to @#%^ off and be done with it. He obviously is the king god of what is right and wrong in a video game and can arbitrarily and inconsistently call one action a "exploit" while labeling another "ok" when in simple terms they are the same thing, using game mechanics to your advantage. Guess that's why all those SMN burn PT's in Korra got the "ban hammer" to fall so hard, cause you know SE had no intention of players gathering 100's of mobs and astral burning them down to the ground for 60k XP in like 30 min. Oh yeah where is your "ban them all!!!" fevor!

Seriously end this topic there is no middle ground. You think your way and we'll think ours and the only opinion that matters is SE's.

* Also I love how he showed you examples of where this type of leveling is used in other MMO's and you totally dismiss it, and instead insult him. What's good ol' Saul say "Don't debate the message, attack the messenger."


He listed Diablo 2, which was notorious for cheating and hacking and people doing all manner of things. Not exactly an example that demonstrates how it's acceptable behavior. He also mentioned a bunch of no-name MMOs I've never heard of. And lastly, he mentioned AFKing in BGs in WoW, which is not an acceptable practice in the eyes of Blizzard. Not only did Blizzard add a feature that would allow you to report a player as AFK in a BG, they also routinely stripped players found to have been AFKing in BGs of all PvP gear regardless of how it was earned.

So you see, I skipped it because he didn't actually make a point in his favor. If he was trying to demonstrate how all of these things are okay in other games, he's a moron because he used examples that do the exact opposite or referenced games hardly anyone has ever heard of.
#78 Nov 05 2010 at 1:00 AM Rating: Decent
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196 posts
Aurelius wrote:
EzellLangor wrote:
Don't bother nick,

I tried the same route and all i got was "@#%^ you idiot!" So no use, tell em to @#%^ off and be done with it. He obviously is the king god of what is right and wrong in a video game and can arbitrarily and inconsistently call one action a "exploit" while labeling another "ok" when in simple terms they are the same thing, using game mechanics to your advantage. Guess that's why all those SMN burn PT's in Korra got the "ban hammer" to fall so hard, cause you know SE had no intention of players gathering 100's of mobs and astral burning them down to the ground for 60k XP in like 30 min. Oh yeah where is your "ban them all!!!" fevor!

Seriously end this topic there is no middle ground. You think your way and we'll think ours and the only opinion that matters is SE's.

* Also I love how he showed you examples of where this type of leveling is used in other MMO's and you totally dismiss it, and instead insult him. What's good ol' Saul say "Don't debate the message, attack the messenger."


He listed Diablo 2, which was notorious for cheating and hacking and people doing all manner of things. Not exactly an example that demonstrates how it's acceptable behavior. He also mentioned a bunch of no-name MMOs I've never heard of. And lastly, he mentioned AFKing in BGs in WoW, which is not an acceptable practice in the eyes of Blizzard. Not only did Blizzard add a feature that would allow you to report a player as AFK in a BG, they also routinely stripped players found to have been AFKing in BGs of all PvP gear regardless of how it was earned.

So you see, I skipped it because he didn't actually make a point in his favor. If he was trying to demonstrate how all of these things are okay in other games, he's a moron because he used examples that do the exact opposite or referenced games hardly anyone has ever heard of.


Again I will say.. I find your lack of game diversity very disturbing.. and your arrogant attitude rather redundant.. Silkroad online happens to be one of the most successful free mmorpg of all time... To this very day you can go straight in to a town.. and get 3 frames on a fairly decent graphic card (GTS 250) That's how many people are playing several hundred in a freakin town.. with around a fourth constantly moving around... Battle of the Immortals has more acclaim then this game... almost anyone who was interested in a decent dungeon crawler has heard of it... Their system, although un-inventive, it was fairly unique in the sense that you get weapons that level along with you..

Your lack of gaming diversity shows in your argument...

Your comment about diablo 2.. shows that you know nothing about diablo 2.. I'm guessing you never played battle.net? World ladder rankings? Everyone power levels on ladder rankings because the only thing that matters on that ladder is your build, your reflex/skills, and your gear... power leveling was acceptable simply because no one finds it fair for a level 20 to fight a level 80 and call it a pvp ladder match..

Also I did admit that camping BG was a show of bad sportsmanship... i.e. abusing the system..

I will just go with EzellLangor and stop arguing with you.. ignorant fanboys will always be ignorant.. in your case you're are both ignorant and arrogant with a side of a know-it-all attitude..

This exploit will be decided by SE and only by SE.. I am just pointing out solid facts of how they will not be able to detect whether a person is afk partying or not... again the sp gain difference between an afk leveling party from soloing is not insanely high like the healing exploit.. So how might SE filter legit from "exploiting" parties? Ever used excel? If you have you'll know what I'm talking about... It would make more sense for Square Enix to let this one slide so that people could try to find more static groups to play together and get to know one another.. no one is going to afk forever.. so when they come back they can join in on the fun.. and still get the bonuses without going through the trouble of reforming a party.. This is also a good way for large groups of comrades to form even bigger LS with active players and ongoing parties..

The standard exp gain should not be from soloing but from partying bonuses.. It forces people to socialize more and to find static groups... That way no one will feel alone.. and everyone will benefit from a faster leveling pace.. I also don't get why people dig the slow leveling... This game is still ultra slow even with the party bonuses..

Finally healing exploit resulted in a ban because it somehow magically broke the surplus wall.. that in itself is a bug.. people knew this was a bug and abused it in to oblivion.. Party bonus is not abusing any bug... the surplus is still intact... you simply level "slightly" faster... let me repeat it in to the think skull of yours.. SLIGHTLY FASTER SLIGHTLY FASTER SLIGHTLY FASTER SLIGHTLY FASTER SLIGHTLY FASTER SLIGHTLY FASTER SLIGHTLY FASTER SLIGHTLY FASTER SLIGHTLY FASTER SLIGHTLY FASTER SLIGHTLY FASTER SLIGHTLY FASTER SLIGHTLY FASTER SLIGHTLY FASTER SLIGHTLY FASTER SLIGHTLY FASTER SLIGHTLY FASTER SLIGHTLY FASTER SLIGHTLY FASTER SLIGHTLY FASTER SLIGHTLY FASTER SLIGHTLY FASTER SLIGHTLY FASTER SLIGHTLY FASTER SLIGHTLY FASTER SLIGHTLY FASTER SLIGHTLY FASTER SLIGHTLY FASTER SLIGHTLY FASTER SLIGHTLY FASTER SLIGHTLY FASTER SLIGHTLY FASTER SLIGHTLY FASTER SLIGHTLY FASTER SLIGHTLY FASTER SLIGHTLY FASTER SLIGHTLY FASTER SLIGHTLY FASTER SLIGHTLY FASTER SLIGHTLY FASTER SLIGHTLY FASTER SLIGHTLY FASTER SLIGHTLY FASTER SLIGHTLY FASTER SLIGHTLY FASTER SLIGHTLY FASTER SLIGHTLY FASTER SLIGHTLY FASTER SLIGHTLY FASTER SLIGHTLY FASTER SLIGHTLY FASTER SLIGHTLY FASTER SLIGHTLY FASTER SLIGHTLY FASTER.. it still follows the rule of the game... and no feature broke because of it...

Also your 10k post doesn't mean jack ****.. I see you are an over zealous little female dog .. that whines when groups of friends who you don't have plays better than you... so good luck have fun.. I hope I never get to talk to you ever again :)

Edited, Nov 5th 2010 3:03am by nick2412
____________________________
WoW: we want to give players a more fun time with less grinding and generic quests
GW2: we want the player to feel like they are leveling while doing something fun
Final Fantasy XIV: we want less fun and more grinding
#79 Nov 05 2010 at 7:00 AM Rating: Good
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73 posts
This thread makes me lol.

This will get me rated down.. whoop.

Getting extra SP this way is an exploit. It's not how SE intended it to work. Those who disagree.. I don't know - you just fail - too dumb to comprehend simple puzzles and problems.
All the comparisons to bank tellers and other analogys are terrible - most have no reference to what's going on.

Who cares about other MMO's and their exploits. "I played all these other games so I know more" isn't a valid argument, and just creates huge blocks of text no one wants to read about.

I hope all the people exploiting the exp system get beaten with the ban stick.. so I can read about them crying, while I continue to play the game with friends - exping at the level SE wanted us to play at.

Flame on forum people, i'm going to get another coffee.
____________________________
FFXI: Rison of Alexander (retired)
FFXIV: Rison Srithuram of Palamecia
LS: Omnipresence [ http://omnipresencels.com ]
#80 Nov 05 2010 at 7:36 AM Rating: Decent
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451 posts
RisonSrithuram wrote:
This thread makes me lol.

This will get me rated down.. whoop.



I rated you up just to be contradictory :P

This is obviously NOT how SE intended the system to work. I also never said I did this, or that it was the right way to level. All I ever said was SE should have forseen that people would be doing this.


Rabanastre World Pop 8:40 pm JST

Ya banning everyone thats getting a little more xp than you is what this game needs to pull it out of the toilet. You and your friends will have a great time playing in your little ghost world.

I don't understand how some of you can be so obtuse.

As soon as someone says anything remotely negative about SE you start launching personal attacks, calling people morons and idiots. Just because someone says your precious Square Enix made a system that is begging to be taken advantage of.

I personally have never taken part in this activity, never said it was right, but I honestly couldn't give a rats *** if anyone else does it. But I mean if you wanna be a cry baby about something someone is doing in a video game that has absolutly no effect on you go for it.


Another thing, where is the line drawn on this "bannable offense" , afking for 10 min while your group continues to level, 20 minutes, half an hour? If a person is with their LS leveling, and the say, "Hey guys I gotta run and pick up my kid, I'll brb in 20 min" and he goes and afk's in a corner w/o dropping group, is he in danger of getting banned?

You guys need to get out more seriously. Maybe a little rl human interaction will make you forget about something so trivial in a game.

Edited, Nov 5th 2010 10:20am by KristoFurwalken
#81 Nov 05 2010 at 7:56 AM Rating: Good
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1,636 posts
Definitely not what they intended when they put the party bonus into play, but really so far what in this game has worked as intended?

I really think its just more evidence suggesting the SP system is stupid. You don't 'have' to participate in every battle your party is in, and you don't 'have' to be at your computer the entire time you're logged in. Until those 2 things become against the rules, I don't really consider this an exploit. Definitely a loophole, and definitely not something they wanted people to be doing. As long as people are actually killing the mobs, I don't care if they're getting a higher SP chance and rate. I hate this SP system enough to give anyone a pass who can make it suck less.



Also, this is not really like the caster exploit. That exploit was actually breaking the intended game mechanics by allowing people to go past the SP cap per mob.


Edited, Nov 5th 2010 9:57am by KujaKoF
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#82 Nov 05 2010 at 8:21 AM Rating: Decent
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164 posts
First off, I think the current sp system sucks, and needs to be fixed or possibly redone from scratch.

Now, on to the subject of AFK party members. I don't have a problem with this, as the sp increases from extra members is very small from what I have observed. What I do have a problem with is the fact that from time time, some people in my party will need to go AFK for a bit. If someone were to come along and see this AFK person, I don't want them accusing us of Cheating. The other issue I have is there are times when party members are on the way to the camp, leaving those of us at camp standing idle, unable to "claim" a mob beacuse the leader is not close by. And of course there's the can't drop party in combat, can't join party in combat, can't kick/promote someone who isn't close by.



#83 Nov 05 2010 at 9:13 AM Rating: Decent
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73 posts
oh, and just to give my two cents on how to fix the problem.. it's simple.

Give the SP based on the # of players in the party who acted on the mob that is in combat/died (or acted on a player who was acting on the mob..).. not based on the size of the party only.

There, fixed. Doubt it will happen though.

And when I say 'ban people' - I mean ban the abusers of the system.. not the random guy who went afk cause his stove caught fire. I mean the absolute TEAM of people you see standing around at crystals.. with their buddies fighting stuff off to the side.

Edited, Nov 5th 2010 11:15am by RisonSrithuram
____________________________
FFXI: Rison of Alexander (retired)
FFXIV: Rison Srithuram of Palamecia
LS: Omnipresence [ http://omnipresencels.com ]
#84 Nov 05 2010 at 11:07 AM Rating: Decent
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6,898 posts
This was a pretty awesome flame thread. I haven't seen one get this 3rd grade in quite a while. "You're an idiot! NO U! Moron! @#%^ sh*t Balls!"

Not that I want to start sh*t again (ok maybe I do), but I just find it amusing that certain posters refuse to respond to valid arguments and instead make assumptions that they are right. Five different games were listed with similar afk systems to this which seems like there is definitely some validity to that point. Even if they aren't the most well-known games, as has been pointed out they are still successful.

What it all boils down to is, who does this "exploit" effect? Is it negatively influencing your gamepaly in any way? Is it blatantly ruining the game mechanics of the leveling system? Not really. The healing exploit definitely WAS breaking the game mechanics. It allowed you to level exceedingly faster. Sh*t, there were lev. 40+ players after less than 2 weeks. Clearly that is a massive abuse and something that NEEDED to be addressed.

Let me just do a little breakdown here. I'm currently rank 23 gld. To get to r24 I need 25000 rank sp. At the maximum of 500 rank sp per battle, I will achieve my next level after 50 battles (I will assume getting 0 shield skill just to make a point). Fifty battles will still take over an hour to complete and this is only rank 24. With the healing glitch, people were earning ranks every 10-15 mins. That's at least 4x faster. Now, assuming I'm in a small group of active players with no one afk, my sp bonus will be lower... yet with battles lasting about a minute each (seems about average in smaller parties) I can still hit my 500 rank sp (or close to it). So really, where is the big advantage? It is a marginal improvement at best. Yes, it is exploiting the system as it is clearly doing something that wasn't intended, but where do we draw the line? I certainly wouldn't expect to see any backlash for this because it really isn't doing all that much. Again, I will not be doing this myself, but I don't see the harm of anyone else doing it. If they want to reach cap a bit faster, good for them. They can sit on their thumbs for the next 6 months awaiting some endgame content.

Edited, Nov 5th 2010 1:10pm by BartelX
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