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Editorial: Better Late Than Never?Follow

#1 Nov 02 2010 at 9:58 PM Rating: Excellent
Love or hate this game, the first month of Final Fantasy XIV was marred by a premature release, numerous flaws and a divided playerbase. This game can still be great, but the events of the next two months could have a huge impact on whether FFXIV sizzles or fizzles.

Check out my editorial here.

Discuss here!
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#2 Nov 02 2010 at 10:07 PM Rating: Decent
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Well written and professionally done. I enjoyed reading it.
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#3 Nov 02 2010 at 10:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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Thayos wrote:
Love or hate this game, the first month of Final Fantasy XIV was marred by a premature release, numerous flaws and a divided playerbase. This game can still be great, but the events of the next two months could have a huge impact on whether FFXIV sizzles or fizzles.

Check out my editorial here.

Discuss here!


They've got barely over a month to impress most of us before the 60 days "free" time is up. They only have the full two months to impress the latecomers to the party.

I hope they plan on showing something major INGAME in November and not just more words on Lodestone, or the latecomers are going to be their only audience outside of the few who like the game how it is.

Edit: wanted to add that the article you wrote was fine.

Edited, Nov 3rd 2010 12:10am by Zorvan
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#4 Nov 02 2010 at 10:14 PM Rating: Good
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Good Article. Concise, to the point, and in my opinion, not biased.

As one who is waiting and watching, I really hope that this game turns out they way that it was intended to be. And if that is to be so, I am looking forward to it. Thanks for the read boss.
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#5 Nov 02 2010 at 11:02 PM Rating: Good
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being that there is only one free month left dont you mean what happens this month?
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#6mitmystria, Posted: Nov 02 2010 at 11:03 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) people would of said it sucked if it was 100% perfect at release. there always something to cry about.
#7 Nov 02 2010 at 11:09 PM Rating: Good
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If Square Enix asks for a deadline extension for its proposed fixes, how long are you willing to give SE the benefit of the doubt?


If it stays free ok, if not I really wish I could get my money back.
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#8 Nov 02 2010 at 11:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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If it does get better, which will be a long while imo, the population will never bounce back which is a shame. playing a good, polished mmo when 800 people are on at any given time, 20-25% of which are bazaaring/afk, takes a great deal away from it. and when I say "good" mmo, im assuming of course that SE does in fact dramatically fix/change many aspects of the game (most of which they have shown no intention to as of yet). hoping for the best though.
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#9 Nov 02 2010 at 11:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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I agree with most of your points.

Personally: I'm one of the few whose patience is wearing thin. I'm still playing the game (R37 FSH, R13 CUL/PUG/LNC) however at this point, I'm not willing to give SE any more money for it (i.e. I will let my subscription expire). Here's my prospects for the future:

HOPING:

SE will deliver on their promises for the fixes on time, AND they will be sufficient in fixing the problems. And that's the important part; that whatever their working on is actually substantial enough to quell our concerns.

EXPECTING:

SE will deliver on their promises for the fixes on time (mostly) however they will not be substantial enough to fix the game to an acceptable degree. For example: one aspect I'm 90% sure we will all be dissapointed on is the UI fixes. IMO, what their planning for this section is mainly touch ups, whereas most of us would expect an overhaul (one that makes sense for the PC). Also anyone hoping for an AH should probably brace for dissapointment as well; it won't happen (not in the near future).

FEARING:

They will slip on the deadline for most promises, or most fixes will be completely unacceptable. Not only that but, even if they strike a good balance with their fixes, what if the game still doesn't "feel" right? In the next few months, I'd expect content (A lot of it given it's current state). So if they get too tied up with fixes to start rolling in the content at a good pace, many may still leave just because there isn't too much "fun" to do by that time.


Honestly, SE has already dug themselves into this grave. It's going to take A LOT from them to get themselves out. In the end, my gut says they won't be able to pull it off. Too little time to do too much from a dev team that either doesn't have the capability or is so bogged down by slow/anachronistic management that it's too late(given development time as well as experience during beta months).

If history has taught us anything is that a botched MMO release dooms the game into oblivion. It's my opinion that the PC release has done so much damage that the PS3 release will be almost inconsequential. I like the game, it's good a good style to it (if that makes sense). However, I don't want to invest too much time into simply because I don't think it will have the player support that will be necessary for SE to keep a dev team behind it that will be able to give us a lot of great content.
#10 Nov 02 2010 at 11:19 PM Rating: Good
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I'm already wishing I could return my copies, because I have very little faith that we're looking at "later" over "never." If it's not in good shape by the time the free period is up (no way), I'll cancel my account (which I'm already not playing). I'll keep an eye on the game and if it ever looks worthwhile, I'll reactivate.

Honestly though, I won't be surprised if it ends up being sold off to a FTP provider.
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#11 Nov 02 2010 at 11:43 PM Rating: Good
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The things I want that would make me willing to pay to play I personally dont feel will be added so as I stand I will stop waking up the wife jamming on my #1 button in the middle of the night come the end of nov.
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#12 Nov 03 2010 at 12:03 AM Rating: Good
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I getting to the point where I'm looking at future MMOs on the horizon.
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#13 Nov 03 2010 at 12:46 AM Rating: Decent
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I canceled my account a couple of weeks or so ago. And I need to hear something substantial from SE (ie. a date for the November update at the very least) before I consider giving them any more of my money.

A lot of the complaints people have voiced are valid in the sense that the issues they're complaining about are interfering with their ability to enjoy the game. At the same time, a lot of those issues are issues that can and will be fixed in time. SE will tweak and adjust the SP system, more travel options will be added, more content will be added, etc. etc.

If I stop to consider all of the things that bother me the most about the game, improvements in those areas have already been announced. Whether or not they'll be enough to take the game from mediocre to good is yet to be seen.
#14 Nov 03 2010 at 12:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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I have doubts that the "better late than never" fixes will have remotely the necessary change needed to keep me on board with the game. I'm still holding out for a miracle turnaround, but as it stands now, it's looking really unlikely.
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#15 Nov 03 2010 at 12:56 AM Rating: Good
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Not to derail the thread completely, because I am staying on topic:

However,

I left around October 12th and gave World of Warcraft another chance(after only ever achieving lvl 40 hunter.

I'm having a blast now as a lvl 70 Paladin, doing tremendous DPS and getting a good mix of questing and player interaction with the well-made dungeon instancing system. I click a button, wait in a queue and get teleported to a dungeon with similar-leveled players in a short amount of time. I get good XP fairly quickly, good rewards, and that's something my dragoon never really had the chance to experience;) (in FFXI).

When I left Wow, years ago, they didn't have this feature(or I didn't know about it, because I tend to solo a lot). However, some friends from work, who I begged to try FFXIV with me(and I sold them on it, much to my chagrin), asked me to give Wow a chance again, and I haven't regretted much of it(still have had a few parties where I wondered what the heck the tank or healer or hunter were on, but you'll always have that).

Regardless, FFXIV would have to do a lot to get me to come back and even think about sitting on the fence. I had such high expectations for FFXIV, coming from other MMOs, including FFXI. The first day or two, I was bedazzled, because new Final Fantasy stuff is new Final Fantasy stuff, but it grew old very quickly.

The absence of any quests outside the mainline quests was a sad hindrance, and guildleves, as convenient as they were, had too many limitations on them and didn't serve to really draw one into the stortyline or make an adventurer feel part of the story. Heck, ten hours ago, one of the main NPCs in Stormwind announced to my entire server that I was an asset to the alliance(I know he was programmed that way, and that anyone who completes the quest I completed will get the same treatment, but it was still neat to me, and my friends got a kick out of it...and the random strangers who asked me how I got that "honor" ;)

World of Warcraft is probably where I'll stay, given that Cataclysm is soon to be released. I've only been in game for a few weeks, have more gold than I know what to do with right now, am doing amazing DPS without have done epic quests for ungodly gear. Higher DPS is out there. Ungodly gear is, too. And 80 is just a few days away...then the gear-up for 85 with Cataclysm's release=)

#16 Nov 03 2010 at 12:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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As the saying goes, "Part of getting a second chance is owning up to the mistakes you've made in the past".

I believe if they can fix what they have promised, it will give FFXIV a breath of fresh life. It really is make or break time.
#17 Nov 03 2010 at 1:04 AM Rating: Good
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Watch out another free month is incoming!! As soon as p2p is turned on all the attempted gold sellers disappear along with half of the server :)
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#18 Nov 03 2010 at 2:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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The biggest problem with square enix is their policy of not listening to player feedback unless it threatens their cash flow. Case in point all of us in the beta reported from day one that the interface was severely inconvenient and that the server side confirmation delay for every acton done in the game was causing massive problems with the combat system and the whole interface in general.

Launch day comes.. Its exactly like day one beta. Nothing was done.

Now after seeing the horrible reviews the game was getting and knowing that this would directly impact the sales of the game for the PS3 release they are trying to do damage control and band aid fix a gaping chest wound.

Make no mistake.... The release of the pc version is the beta test phase. Now SE is seeing how badly their management decisions have impacted the survivability of the game and they know that if the game does not sell well the first month of ps 3 release in japan (their major and primary market) then the game will fail and seriously hurt the brand name.

All because they considered the feedback of the beta testers to be of importance only when it caught bugs,graphic issues and spelling errors. They did not listen to the gameplay feedback.


I predict then that se will keep extending the free period until maybe january or february. The ps3 release must be perfect and reviews between now and then must dramatically improve... And they cant do it if players mass quit on december.

Can they fix it? i dont think so. The source of all the gameplay issues is practically hard coded into the core of the game itself... It will require a revamp of the server side authentication system, of the interface and the adding on of a workable market system ( and i dont mean an AH i mean a supply and demand, distribution and retail system) made from scratch.

It just wont happen unless SE management pulls their heads out of their immediate superior's anuses and Listens to the feedback that the players, the thousands of people with a dozen plus years of playing diffrenent MMOs experience, telling them what is wrong and what could be done to fix it.

SE could well begin this process by opening official feedback forums with daily dev responses and updates... Like any succesful BETA test should have.
#19 Nov 03 2010 at 3:36 AM Rating: Good
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Well, they DID change the combat, though they also claimed that they had always intended to change the combat (not sure if that is to be believed though). It was actually a little incredible how quickly they completely changed the combat compared to how long it takes them to make relatively small fixes, so I'm apt to think that they did have two systems in the works.

And I almost wonder if they did it just to say, "See, we listen to feedback and make quick changes!"

Unfortunately, combat is still very mediocre by my standards. Give me an effect gauge feature (though not timed like the first one) and attack queuing and we'll talk. Then scrap your Battle Regimen system for another party-based mechanic that actually works.

Then add some content, and some more incentive to actually party. And make it not take so **** long to rank up. And balance the abilities so that they're useful.

That's all I ask. :)
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Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#20 Nov 03 2010 at 7:20 AM Rating: Decent
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Overall, the first month of FFXIV can’t be viewed as anything other than a failure, but I don’t think a single bad month will doom this game to mediocrity. Failure during the next two months would be significantly more devastating.


I'd say the launch was pretty good no matter how you look at it, even if the game is not. It could have been a lot, lot worse than it was.
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#21 Nov 03 2010 at 7:22 AM Rating: Decent
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I agree with a lot of what you have said. I do agree that the next couple of months are really going to decide whether or not FFXIV will be considered a success or not. I have been enjoying the game a lot and I agree that it has been fun leveling many classes especially crafting classes which is a lot more fun then in FFXI. I think that the bad reviews have hurt FFXIV a lot but I think that these review site need to reassess the game after the updates have been implemented to help new potential gamers to the game. I think come March when they review the PS3 version, if the bugs are fixed, we could see a huge influx of gamers because of positive reviews. I guess its wait and see for now. As for me, the extra free month was nice as will another, but I don't have any plans of leaving!!!

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#22 Nov 03 2010 at 7:35 AM Rating: Excellent
If they give us an extra free month, I'll stick around, if not, good bye. They've had the better part of two months to fix this game, if not longer when you consider all these problems were present in the alpha version. To ask us to wait this long, it's just ridiculous.
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#23 Nov 03 2010 at 8:05 AM Rating: Excellent
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bsphil wrote:
I have doubts that the "better late than never" fixes will have remotely the necessary change needed to keep me on board with the game. I'm still holding out for a miracle turnaround, but as it stands now, it's looking really unlikely.


You want to make all the changes before the first billing comes into play. Here in is the problem, who wants to come back and pay for a month just to find out the fixes never came/worked. The idea is to get you hooked or tie up your income into the game before you do that to another game. Still willing to come back after you find a new love?

They need to put the fixes in well before the free month is up and get you hooked and in love with there work. After that they can take a bit more time to feed you.
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#24 Nov 03 2010 at 8:46 AM Rating: Decent
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Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
Overall, the first month of FFXIV can’t be viewed as anything other than a failure, but I don’t think a single bad month will doom this game to mediocrity. Failure during the next two months would be significantly more devastating.


I'd say the launch was pretty good no matter how you look at it, even if the game is not. It could have been a lot, lot worse than it was.


Pretty good? This launch was not good in any way shape or form. Loyal fan base for the Final Fantasy name is the only thing saving this mess. No MMO in the history of MMO has gotten a worst launch then FFXIV.
#25 Nov 03 2010 at 9:00 AM Rating: Good
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doubleax wrote:
Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
Overall, the first month of FFXIV can’t be viewed as anything other than a failure, but I don’t think a single bad month will doom this game to mediocrity. Failure during the next two months would be significantly more devastating.


I'd say the launch was pretty good no matter how you look at it, even if the game is not. It could have been a lot, lot worse than it was.


Pretty good? This launch was not good in any way shape or form. Loyal fan base for the Final Fantasy name is the only thing saving this mess. No MMO in the history of MMO has gotten a worst launch then FFXIV.


From the standpoint that the game was functional and people could actually log in to play, I'd say it was a pretty good launch compared to other games I've seen. Whether or not you enjoyed what you got after logging in is a matter of opinion.
#26 Nov 03 2010 at 9:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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...those who migrated from FFXI understand that the teleport system -- even with limited use of anima -- makes traveling far more easier than the early days of Vana’diel.


The bolded bit sounds a bit funky; "...much easier than..." would be better.

Like you, I've never played an MMO from launch before. I don't know if what I was expecting was reasonable. Although I believe that SE will continue to develop the game, the current dearth of compelling content is disappointing.

I gave up hope for the near future when SE released the version update notes for November and December. While I'm hopeful that they will smooth out battle mechanics substantially, I'm disheartened because I saw very little new original content described.

More guildleves and synthesis recipes are nice additions, but we already have a bunch of those. The addition of notorious monsters won't fill the void either. I spent enough days and nights camping NMs in XI to last a lifetime.

SE has not conveyed to me their vision of what this game will be like in a year, and the current form of the game is not good enough to keep me playing. So, I'll be waiting and watching like many others...
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#27 Nov 03 2010 at 9:08 AM Rating: Default
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Spot on editorial.

Game has many failings and we know it does.

Game has huge potential over XI.

In all honesty I think I will give this game to PS3 launch. I find my self only doing Leves to use them up and thats about it at the moment.
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#28 Nov 03 2010 at 9:24 AM Rating: Good
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CatPredator wrote:
Quote:
...those who migrated from FFXI understand that the teleport system -- even with limited use of anima -- makes traveling far more easier than the early days of Vana’diel.


The bolded bit sounds a bit funky; "...much easier than..." would be better.

Like you, I've never played an MMO from launch before. I don't know if what I was expecting was reasonable. Although I believe that SE will continue to develop the game, the current dearth of compelling content is disappointing.

I gave up hope for the near future when SE released the version update notes for November and December. While I'm hopeful that they will smooth out battle mechanics substantially, I'm disheartened because I saw very little new original content described.

More guildleves and synthesis recipes are nice additions, but we already have a bunch of those. The addition of notorious monsters won't fill the void either. I spent enough days and nights camping NMs in XI to last a lifetime.

SE has not conveyed to me their vision of what this game will be like in a year, and the current form of the game is not good enough to keep me playing. So, I'll be waiting and watching like many others...



This is a good point, I cant rate you up so ill quote you.
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#29 Nov 03 2010 at 10:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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Thayos, it never ceases to amaze me how much better you are at putting my thoughts and feelings about XI and XIV in print than I am!

I hope SE has not underestimated the importance of these updates. If they have, it's probably too late already, as I don't see them being able to rework December's update if they realize they screwed the pooch with November's.

I want this game to succeed, but man there is SO much work that needs to be done, I'm very concerned about the Nov and Dec updates, as they had all the pre-beta development time, beta testing time, and released it the way we see it now. How are they going to fix in 2 months what they got wrong with years of development, and months and months of beta testing? I just hope, and I mean that- I really do hope - that I'm wrong, and they pull some magic out of their collective hats.
I want this game to succeed, it's just that they've scared me with the decisions and content so far.
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#30 Nov 03 2010 at 10:54 AM Rating: Good
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chomama wrote:
Good Article. Concise, to the point, and in my opinion, not biased.

As one who is waiting and watching, I really hope that this game turns out they way that it was intended to be. And if that is to be so, I am looking forward to it. Thanks for the read boss.


Not biased? This is written by a guy who is an admin for a FFXIV fansite. The author most certainly has a vested interest in the game doing well so this site continues to do well by extension. Non-biased articles are written by folks with no vested interest in the success of the game. All those non-biased reviews slammed FFXIV and called in unplayable garbage.

The article practically begs folks to wait and see what SE does because the game has the potential to be great. He even went so far as to brush all the complaints about the game under the rug and proves the game is playable because "many people are happily playing". Really? Are many people really happily playing, or are most people begrudgingly playing because they already wasted $75 for the game plus whatever they spent on PC upgrades?

Seems to me this article is nothing more than a plea to keep folks playing FFXIV, and thus coming back to this ZAM fansite so they continue to rack up hits for advertising numbers.

It was well written. You can't deny that.

Edited, Nov 3rd 2010 12:55pm by Enscheff
#31 Nov 03 2010 at 11:03 AM Rating: Excellent
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Although I'm with everyone else with the changes they need to make, I'm not going to quit in a huff over 12.95 and will wait one more month or even the next. I love the game and I just want them to fix it. I paid 50 bucks for XIII and I only got 2 hours entertainment out of that one before I got bored to tears, so thus far, XIV has been worth the money to me.
#32 Nov 03 2010 at 12:22 PM Rating: Good
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I'm definitely in the minority because I actually enjoy the game a lot at this point despite the glaring problems that exist. And I'm optimistic because the biggest changes I am hoping for have already been announced by SE so I will give them the time to implement their plan whether or not they succeed before the free trial period is over or not or until the december patch. ($12.95 for a couple months is a moot point considering the time and money i am willing to invest in this game in the long run)

However, there are three factors that will still likely turn me away from the game, even if SE manages to fix most of the issues and those are:

1. The mass exodus of players after the free trial period/dec patch, who then never give the game a chance even when certain aspects of the game are patched, leaving servers very lightly populated.

2. A disappointing influx of PS3 players because of all the negativity of the game, further decreasing the population on the servers.

3. If the patches are so mediocre that they anger some of their more loyal customers and they too leave the game, making the game environment a complete barren wasteland....

Bottom line is, even for someone who enjoys the game I will probably quit due to the actions of others simply because a MMO is only fun when it has a large player base. All the changes in the world won't help if come March 2011, the servers are looking even emptier than they do now. That would be a sad day indeed, and heres to hoping that whatever SE does in the next few months, it will be enough to retain enough players and to attract fresh blood for the PS3 release to keep the game going strong for years to come.





Edited, Nov 3rd 2010 2:29pm by lightacadi
#33 Nov 03 2010 at 12:33 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
The PlayStation 3 version of MMO Final Fantasy XIV was delayed due to “memory” issues, producer Hiromichi Tanaka told VG247.

Speaking to us at gamescom last week, the developer explained for the first time why the PS3 version was held back into March next year.

“The main reason was the memory,” said Tanaka via his translator.

“On the PC, they have enormous memory. For PS3, there’s a restriction.

“They are adjusting the memory size and customising it; it took longer then we were expecting. But we’re really working hard to bring it out as soon as possible.”

When asked if this was a memory issue with either the Blu-ray or HDD, Tanaka just said in English: “Memory.”

In hindsight, he was probably referring to RAM issues
http://www.vg247.com/2010/08/24/ffxiv-ps3-delay-down-to-memory-says-square-enix/


I dont know, this info does not help the ps3 become a larger back bone system. Other reports already say the game will be dumbed down and run on a lower resolutions.
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#34 Nov 03 2010 at 12:36 PM Rating: Good
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Not biased? This is written by a guy who is an admin for a FFXIV fansite. The author most certainly has a vested interest in the game doing well so this site continues to do well by extension. Non-biased articles are written by folks with no vested interest in the success of the game. All those non-biased reviews slammed FFXIV and called in unplayable garbage.

The article practically begs folks to wait and see what SE does because the game has the potential to be great. He even went so far as to brush all the complaints about the game under the rug and proves the game is playable because "many people are happily playing". Really? Are many people really happily playing, or are most people begrudgingly playing because they already wasted $75 for the game plus whatever they spent on PC upgrades?

Seems to me this article is nothing more than a plea to keep folks playing FFXIV, and thus coming back to this ZAM fansite so they continue to rack up hits for advertising numbers.

It was well written. You can't deny that.


A non-biased or biased article/opinion can be presented by either someone who is vested or not vested.

Bias is not exclusive to observers inside an issue. It stands to reason someone who is authoring an article about a subject, is already vested in it, whether via hands on interaction, or just by the research put into it. A third-party govt watchdog group is vested the moment they start collecting and compiling information.
Your argument is flawed at best.

That being said, you're wrong about Thayos being biased in his opinions. His articles have always been fair and balanced, and it could be argued that being biased towards SE would curry ZAM some favor as far as exclusive interviews/press releases. He's never displayed that kind of behavior, and he's always complimented and/or given credit to the good things in the games he writes about.
Thayos has never been anything but rational, fair, AND unbiased.

Edited, Nov 3rd 2010 2:41pm by Restyoneck
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#35 Nov 03 2010 at 12:38 PM Rating: Decent
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The funny thing is.. If you try and go to sythe and sell your FFXIV account right now all you're going get is tumble weed.. THAT IS HOW MUCH PEOPLE DON'T WANT THIS GAME.. Luckily I sold mine towards the end of my first month of play.. Regardless free mmo accounts do sell on third party websites whereas FFXIV cannot sell.. See a trend? .. Yeah this game is already screwed.. Just like Age of Conan, and vanguard.. Terrible launches will always result in craptastic future development of the game.. Success in launch always mean a high review on major gaming websites and user review.. i.e. metacritic... most of the time if the game is legitimately playable and enjoyable, most gamer reviews and user reviewers have no problem with giving this game an excellent to good game rating..

FFXIV does not fall in this category, most if not all non-hardcore Final Fantasy MMO player has already left or gave up all hope for this game. Instead everyone else is waiting for more promising games like TOR (although TOR is a bit shady right now), Guild wars 2, Diablo 3, Torchlight 2.. and this is only to name a few.. 2011 is filled with crazy new games.. along with vast amounts of other non-mmo games… 2011 is the right year for gaming… If SE fails to pull it off by March of 2011, this game will pretty much be dead by Q4 2011 …

Either way you slice it this game will not be fun to play on a console system.. Console games tends to have great combat animations along with acceptable voice acting.. From my play period I was reading wall of texts..

For console gamers.. do you find it fun reading from your tv that is approximately 6-20 feet away from you? (assuming you want good eye vision by the time you are 40) .. yeah no I don’t find reading captions fun.. and I almost sure no one will find it fun to read dialogs from so far away….

When you think of modern rpg you think of Dragon Age Origins.. when you think of MMO's you think of WoW .. two of the most successful games for their genre's of all time... Why can't SE go and combine the two and call it Final fantasy XIV?


Edited, Nov 3rd 2010 2:41pm by nick2412
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#36 Nov 03 2010 at 12:44 PM Rating: Decent
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doubleax wrote:
Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
Overall, the first month of FFXIV can’t be viewed as anything other than a failure, but I don’t think a single bad month will doom this game to mediocrity. Failure during the next two months would be significantly more devastating.


I'd say the launch was pretty good no matter how you look at it, even if the game is not. It could have been a lot, lot worse than it was.


Pretty good? This launch was not good in any way shape or form. Loyal fan base for the Final Fantasy name is the only thing saving this mess. No MMO in the history of MMO has gotten a worst launch then FFXIV.



While I feel dirty defending SE on this one, I disagree.

I was around for BETA and launch of several MMO's that were legendary disasters. They had horrible game design and mechanics issues and had lots of bugs.

Worse of the bunch: Shadowbane. - It died practically within the week of launch. What was left was a small population of gamers dedicated to exploiting bugs for pvp advantage.

Real bad one: Age of Conan. Overhyped, overmarketted, UTTER failure on delivery. This was like the Duke Nukem sequel : took too long, too many changes mid-development, code wasnt cleaned and holy crap it acted like a virus on your C drive. Gameplay was horrible and buggy. Game went from uterus to grave on its first day.

Runner up: World War 2 Online - Take2's launch was so bad the game went to free play for almost 6 months then DIED. Re-launched year+ later when the devs bought back the rights to the game from Take2 and REALLY fixed it. Today its called Battleground Europe and its an EXCELLENT MMO.

Honorable Mention: Everquest 2 - EQ2 is eerie in its similarity to FF14's launch. Same game concept and much better graphics than its predecessor ... but gameplay mechanics and interface were drastically changed (and HORRID). Game flopped less than 6 months after launch, most playerbase going BACK to EQ1. Pretty much the same that will happen in FF14 if SE doesnt get its rear in gear.

I've also been in beta and launch of some that were horrible launches and the major issues were fixed relatively quickly (within a month or two). It is important to note however that the horrible launch was not due to gameplay mechanics or bad design but rather bugs and glitches with the game code... the core design of the games below was very well done.

Worst: Star Wars Galaxies. (which was 're-launched' a couple years later as the 'NGE' patch which has been recorded as the Greatest ***-Up in MMO history).

Runner up: Dark Age of Camelot - lots of bugs, all fixed in 3 months. Kudos to the devs.

Honorable Mention: Lord of the Rings Online - many glitches, all fixed the MONTH of release. holycrap wow job from their dev team.

FF14 is somewhere between EQ2 and Star Wars Galaxies. It doesnt have anything better than FF11 other than the nifty graphics and it NEEDS a re-write of its core system to be fixed. I only hope SE doesn't go 'SOE' on the changes that need to be done.

Edited, Nov 3rd 2010 2:47pm by Skyfaller
#37 Nov 03 2010 at 12:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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Skyfaller wrote:
The biggest problem with square enix is their policy of not listening to player feedback unless it threatens their cash flow. Case in point all of us in the beta reported from day one that the interface was severely inconvenient and that the server side confirmation delay for every acton done in the game was causing massive problems with the combat system and the whole interface in general.

Launch day comes.. Its exactly like day one beta. Nothing was done.

Now after seeing the horrible reviews the game was getting and knowing that this would directly impact the sales of the game for the PS3 release they are trying to do damage control and band aid fix a gaping chest wound.

Make no mistake.... The release of the pc version is the beta test phase. Now SE is seeing how badly their management decisions have impacted the survivability of the game and they know that if the game does not sell well the first month of ps 3 release in japan (their major and primary market) then the game will fail and seriously hurt the brand name.

All because they considered the feedback of the beta testers to be of importance only when it caught bugs,graphic issues and spelling errors. They did not listen to the gameplay feedback.


I predict then that se will keep extending the free period until maybe january or february. The ps3 release must be perfect and reviews between now and then must dramatically improve... And they cant do it if players mass quit on december.

Can they fix it? i dont think so. The source of all the gameplay issues is practically hard coded into the core of the game itself... It will require a revamp of the server side authentication system, of the interface and the adding on of a workable market system ( and i dont mean an AH i mean a supply and demand, distribution and retail system) made from scratch.

It just wont happen unless SE management pulls their heads out of their immediate superior's anuses and Listens to the feedback that the players, the thousands of people with a dozen plus years of playing diffrenent MMOs experience, telling them what is wrong and what could be done to fix it.

SE could well begin this process by opening official feedback forums with daily dev responses and updates... Like any succesful BETA test should have.


^ All of this.
I remember last summer, when I was pre-ordering the CE, thinking to myself 'they'll fix the UI, they'll fix the lag, they'll fix all the other things we talked about in feedback...they'll HAVE to.' If you look up the word 'naive' in the dictionary, yea that's my picture there.
At this point, I seriously don't believe SE's devs are paying any attention to fan feedback, that we just don't understand their vision. This is just the PC launch, the real release will come in March for the PS3 players, which is what the UI is actually designed for imo.
It's going to take a lot to get me back, and I don't think they can do it.



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#38 Nov 03 2010 at 1:00 PM Rating: Good
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@Skyfaller

I have to disagree with you on the EQ2 part, I played from launch and it was fairly smooth, the UI worked well and it had a decent custom UI community as well, and it ran smooth and played well.

it had good party mechanics at the start too and encouraged people to party for better xp, it also had endgame content in place as well. the reall killer for EQ2 was when the first expansion came out and they did a few class and game mechanic balancing, then left the previous raid content broken for a whole month.

it did have a few bugs, like that one named mob in the one temple that would hardly spawn for the screaming mace quest and a few others, but it also had a great community much like FFXI, except people actually let you camp a mob for an item and wait thier turn lol. have never run into a community like that before or after.
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#39 Nov 03 2010 at 1:06 PM Rating: Decent
Pikko wrote:
Although I'm with everyone else with the changes they need to make, I'm not going to quit in a huff over 12.95 and will wait one more month or even the next. I love the game and I just want them to fix it. I paid 50 bucks for XIII and I only got 2 hours entertainment out of that one before I got bored to tears, so thus far, XIV has been worth the money to me.

Agreed. ^^
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#40 Nov 03 2010 at 1:10 PM Rating: Excellent
doubleax wrote:
Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
Overall, the first month of FFXIV can’t be viewed as anything other than a failure, but I don’t think a single bad month will doom this game to mediocrity. Failure during the next two months would be significantly more devastating.


I'd say the launch was pretty good no matter how you look at it, even if the game is not. It could have been a lot, lot worse than it was.


Pretty good? This launch was not good in any way shape or form. Loyal fan base for the Final Fantasy name is the only thing saving this mess. No MMO in the history of MMO has gotten a worst launch then FFXIV.


Clearly, you did not play Mortal Online when it launched. For XIV's many faults at launch, it is definitely NOT the worst launch in MMO history. SWG had a fairly bad debut as well.

Pikko wrote:
Although I'm with everyone else with the changes they need to make, I'm not going to quit in a huff over 12.95 and will wait one more month or even the next. I love the game and I just want them to fix it. I paid 50 bucks for XIII and I only got 2 hours entertainment out of that one before I got bored to tears, so thus far, XIV has been worth the money to me.


Honestly, this is how I feel as well. I'm having fun in the game. It keeps me busy between crafting, exploring, and leveling my classes with both my RL friends/family and friends from Zam. XIV has a lot of flaws, and it's impossible to think that SE isn't in a panic right now over their investment, and scrambling to put things right. A LOT of money went into this game, they're not just going to forget that. I actually kinda pity their programmers. Talk about job pressure...
#41 Nov 03 2010 at 1:17 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Good Article. Concise, to the point, and in my opinion, not biased.

Quote:
Not biased? This is written by a guy who is an admin for a FFXIV fansite. The author most certainly has a vested interest in the game doing well so this site continues to do well by extension. Non-biased articles are written by folks with no vested interest in the success of the game. All those non-biased reviews slammed FFXIV and called in unplayable garbage.


This is an editorial guys. They are opinion pieces, not factual reporting. They are, by their very definition, biased.

The unbiased reviews didn't call the game "unplayable garbage". The bottom line of nearly all the reviews was, "we can't recommend the game at this time". The vast majority of reputable software review sites and companies are taking a wait and see stance on the game. They all have various levels of optimism about the game's future but none of them is denying that SE is a powerhouse that, at the very minimum, has the financial resources to turn this thing around. Whether or not they have the vision and personnel remains to be seen.
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#42 Nov 03 2010 at 2:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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TheRealLusent wrote:
bsphil wrote:
I have doubts that the "better late than never" fixes will have remotely the necessary change needed to keep me on board with the game. I'm still holding out for a miracle turnaround, but as it stands now, it's looking really unlikely.


You want to make all the changes before the first billing comes into play. Here in is the problem, who wants to come back and pay for a month just to find out the fixes never came/worked. The idea is to get you hooked or tie up your income into the game before you do that to another game. Still willing to come back after you find a new love?

They need to put the fixes in well before the free month is up and get you hooked and in love with there work. After that they can take a bit more time to feed you.
Well at least for me in particular, I have until early December because of when I registered the buddy pass I got. I agree CE buyers are really screwed though, SE buyers aren't in much better state either.
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#43 Nov 03 2010 at 2:25 PM Rating: Good
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bsphil wrote:
TheRealLusent wrote:
bsphil wrote:
I have doubts that the "better late than never" fixes will have remotely the necessary change needed to keep me on board with the game. I'm still holding out for a miracle turnaround, but as it stands now, it's looking really unlikely.


You want to make all the changes before the first billing comes into play. Here in is the problem, who wants to come back and pay for a month just to find out the fixes never came/worked. The idea is to get you hooked or tie up your income into the game before you do that to another game. Still willing to come back after you find a new love?

They need to put the fixes in well before the free month is up and get you hooked and in love with there work. After that they can take a bit more time to feed you.
Well at least for me in particular, I have until early December because of when I registered the buddy pass I got. I agree CE buyers are really screwed though, SE buyers aren't in much better state either.


They don't have to put all the Nov fixes in before the 22nd...but they do have to give details to what the late November fixes will fix. That may alleviate some of the timing difficulties for the CE players.
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#44 Nov 03 2010 at 2:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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I want to say this games chance at having significant subs and being considered great are done. Everything that's happened so far leads me to believe that. Changes coming are changes too late. I bought a game that I expected to be good in september when I purchased it, I don't care how good its going to be X months from now. I don't buy a pizza for dinner, and eat it quietly until the toppings show up in 2 hours.

However, who knows. Maybe the PS3 lauch will have rave reviews. Maybe that'll make people resub. Maybe that'll draw more PC players in. Maybe a year from now TOR/GW2/Terra bomb and people give this a shot due to a free trial. Just because no games really recovered from something like this before, doesn't mean it can't happen, it just mean's nobody should count on it.

Honestly though I just think SE went the wrong direction. MMOs exploded with the WOW "system" (questing rather than nonspecific grinding, solo friendly, smooth leveling curve), and the last game that really seemed to try and recapture the old EQ "system" was vanguard, and look at those numbers today. Its fine if they want to stay in a niche, but everyone should therefore expect niche numbers, both in updates, content, and server populations.

Theres just too much competition these days. A year ago they maybe could have gotten away with it from me, but with SWTOR and GW2 coming up, once I unsub I'm done.

Edited, Nov 3rd 2010 4:35pm by KujaKoF
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#45 Nov 03 2010 at 2:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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My take on the game is that it's not 'unplayable' as such but more 'not worth playing at this time' as most reviews have attested to.

It looks very nice but there's nothing that makes me want to play. I don't feel like I'm an important member of an earth-saving defense force, I feel like I'm just some guy who goes around beating up random flora and fauna and makes trinkets to wear. I get to perform repeatedly repetitive tasks on a 48 hour timer for no apparent reason and, above all, I don't feel immersed in the game which is a critical failure for an MMO.

(Oh dear not another FFXI comparison!)

In FFXI the game was obtuse as it got in the early stages with grinding levels in a party taking up most of your first several days playtime, but the social aspect of this meant you made friends, you joined linkshells and you had fun together. Due to the current barriers preventing easy access to parties and causing partying to be WORSE than soloing in some cases, the social aspect doesn't exist and considering the game has very little content currently (it is new, after all) you've removed a quintessential reason for people to continue playing the game.

Also the UI sucks donkeys and they better be adding hotkeys to menus as well as eliminating the lag rather than just 'simplifying' it.
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#46 Nov 03 2010 at 2:56 PM Rating: Decent
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Simool wrote:
They don't have to put all the Nov fixes in before the 22nd...but they do have to give details to what the late November fixes will fix. That may alleviate some of the timing difficulties for the CE players.
They've outlined the changes already, though they haven't given specific details on how they will change this stuff.

FFXIV Lodestone wrote:
Late November Update
Adjustments and additions to the user interface
Adjustments to the Markets and retainers
Lowering of Teleport and Return costs
Adjustments to overall battle balance
Adjustments to class balance
Adjustments to party battle balance
Adjustments to monster placement
Adjustments to levequests
Adjustments to synthesis
Addition of new synthesis recipes
Alleviation of lag issues
The dilemma is of course, do you believe that SE's definition of "fix" will line up with your own. A lot of this stuff will be subjective. Can you tolerate the UI? Do you think the market wards and retainers are implemented in a way that isn't nonsensical? Are the levequests satisfying? What is an acceptable failure rate for synthesis?

Others are more objective. Party and class balance are quantifiable. Lag can be measured. We will probably be able to agree on whether these things have been fixed or not, but the other aspects will still be contested.
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#47 Nov 03 2010 at 3:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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Pikko wrote:

Although I'm with everyone else with the changes they need to make, I'm not going to quit in a huff over 12.95 and will wait one more month or even the next. I love the game and I just want them to fix it. I paid 50 bucks for XIII and I only got 2 hours entertainment out of that one before I got bored to tears, so thus far, XIV has been worth the money to me.


Well, I think it might be a bit unfair to make it seem that those of us who are dissatisfied are "quitting in a huff". I'm just disappointed, really. 12.95 adds up, and it's just not worth it to pay for something that isn't yet fully enjoyable. They are still getting my money for XI anyway (even though I don't play that anymore either)- that's all I'm willing to give them at this point.

I haven't given up hope - which is why I still hang round the forums - but right now I don't see any reason to reward them for spending the past five years developing a rendering engine. I hope they pull through - but if they haven't by the end of the free trial period - time to move on.
#48 Nov 03 2010 at 3:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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CatPredator wrote:
Simool wrote:
They don't have to put all the Nov fixes in before the 22nd...but they do have to give details to what the late November fixes will fix. That may alleviate some of the timing difficulties for the CE players.
They've outlined the changes already, though they haven't given specific details on how they will change this stuff.

FFXIV Lodestone wrote:
Late November Update
Adjustments and additions to the user interface
Adjustments to the Markets and retainers
Lowering of Teleport and Return costs
Adjustments to overall battle balance
Adjustments to class balance
Adjustments to party battle balance
Adjustments to monster placement
Adjustments to levequests
Adjustments to synthesis
Addition of new synthesis recipes
Alleviation of lag issues
The dilemma is of course, do you believe that SE's definition of "fix" will line up with your own. A lot of this stuff will be subjective. Can you tolerate the UI? Do you think the market wards and retainers are implemented in a way that isn't nonsensical? Are the levequests satisfying? What is an acceptable failure rate for synthesis?

Others are more objective. Party and class balance are quantifiable. Lag can be measured. We will probably be able to agree on whether these things have been fixed or not, but the other aspects will still be contested.


Yea, everyone knows what the say there were going to do a few weeks ago...but knowing SE, who the heck really knows. The trust factor is so low right now it would be in their best interest to go against their normal protocol and say exactly the changes that will be implemented, beforehand...good or bad. Saying nothing and letting the 22nd come and go may cost them dearly in subscriptions, unless they plan on giving another month free.
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#49 Nov 03 2010 at 3:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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I played XI long enough to know that "adjustments" are rarely "fixes."
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#50 Nov 03 2010 at 3:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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I really don't understand why people would even tolerate stuff like this.

Say you have a cable/sattelite company that you've been using. You've enjoyed this service for several years, it's a good service. Sure they haven't always been quick out of the gate but things are still enjoyable.

Now one day you decide purchase another service from them. Say you decide to get internet through the same service provider. You pay for the modem, they install it in your house and you boot up your computer. The service is slow, laggy, kicks you off several times per session and refuses to allow you access to 50% of the internet. You call them asking when they plan to fix the issues you're having. The only response you get is "We'll give you a free month and we plan on making adjustments in 2 or 3 months from now."

Well super, you get a free month of crappy internet service and you still have no clue when it's going to be fixed. Would you seriously put up with that kind of customer service from anyone else you pay?

Edited, Nov 3rd 2010 5:37pm by SickleSageKiroh
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#51 Nov 03 2010 at 3:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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If you don't feel like playing at all, then sure, paying 12.95 is definitely not worth it. But for the people that are still playing and saying that they won't pay past the free trial, I don't think it's that big a deal to pay for the subscription fee the first paid month. I mean, I'll be paying more than my monthly fee just to go see Harry Potter in a few weeks. I'm ok with paying 12.95 at the end of the month simply because I'm still playing and having fun.
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