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Editorial: Better Late Than Never?Follow

#52 Nov 03 2010 at 4:30 PM Rating: Good
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I don't know. For me, the money is a non-issue. Generally an MMO is one of the best time:money leisure investments you can make.

I'm not playing now because the game isn't fun. The fact that it's free isn't making me want to play. It's just keeping me from canceling my account right away.

I don't think many people at all are playing now but will quit once they have to start paying. And if they are, I have to wonder why they aren't just playing any of the many free games that are in much better shape.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#53 Nov 03 2010 at 5:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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4,153 posts
Pikko wrote:
But for the people that are still playing and saying that they won't pay past the free trial, I don't think it's that big a deal to pay for the subscription fee the first paid month.


Not really a big deal I guess if you have the money to shrug it off, but it's the principal. If you're paying the fee then you're basically endorsing and supporting the product. That's all good if it is something you enjoy. I have a thousand reasons why I don't enjoy it and I won't try to convince someone else not to enjoy it if they do, but I personally won't support it and here's why...

Thayos wrote:
If Square Enix asks for a deadline extension for its proposed fixes, how long are you willing to give SE the benefit of the doubt?


SE already asked for a deadline extension when they wanted reviewers to wait a month before writing and submitting their opinions of the game. Had they been granted this month the reviews would likely have been the same. The only valid explanation is that SE knowingly released the game prematurely. I sincerely doubt that this game has been developed over the past 5-6 years. I think they spent too much time on the graphics engine, which is beautiful, but they were rushed to put out a product after so much time and money had already been spent on that.

Alpha was started about 5 weeks late and featured a battle system that made me want to punch babies. I'm not sure how many of you played alpha phase, but if you did then ask yourself this question: Is this battle system something you would come to expect from a developer who has been making games with battle systems for decades now? For those of you who didn't witness it, the answer is a resounding "**** NO!". What they should have done was put this game on the shelf and waited to release the PC and PS3 versions simultaneously.

If FFXIV caved in and closed down the servers tomorrow I still think they could recover from it. Put the PC version on the shelf and focus on a solid PS3 release. Don't use the fact that you're a console developer as an excuse for poor PC gaming design. No one would have faulted them for sticking to what they know and releasing this game in March when it actually will be ready. Actually, I'd be willing to bet that most of the people upset about buying a new PC or upgrading their old one would have been happy to wait and shell out far less for the console.

I honestly would rather have seen them take their time, push back release dates and extend testing to iron out the issues. They didn't create a strong foundation for this game and it is going to hurt them in the end.



____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#54 Nov 03 2010 at 5:48 PM Rating: Good
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Kachi wrote:

I'm not playing now because the game isn't fun. The fact that it's free isn't making me want to play. It's just keeping me from canceling my account right away.


THis but it was not free, paid for the game, got a better vid card, and a higher end PSU.

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#55 Nov 03 2010 at 6:22 PM Rating: Good
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Looks like I'll be playing this game for quite a while.
#56 Nov 03 2010 at 7:08 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Alpha was started about 5 weeks late and featured a battle system that made me want to punch babies. I'm not sure how many of you played alpha phase, but if you did then ask yourself this question: Is this battle system something you would come to expect from a developer who has been making games with battle systems for decades now? For those of you who didn't witness it, the answer is a resounding "**** NO!". What they should have done was put this game on the shelf and waited to release the PC and PS3 versions simultaneously.


I thought that the battle system in alpha was decent, at least conceptually. The implementation was awful, and the server and UI lag made it totally unplayable. But the idea was reasonably solid. I would have made some important changes to it, but I think in some ways it was stronger than the current system, and have to wonder if a lot of the problems the game has now aren't a result of scrapping a lot of prior work to rush out a new system.

The effect gauge was a good concept. The differentiation of classes was good. These were things that could and should have stayed with the new system.

They also desperately need to add attack queuing, as I've been saying since alpha. The lack of attack queuing makes it extremely impractical to type/chat midbattle, and once people actually start partying and need to communicate, it's going to suck hard when people have to completely sacrifice an action or three just to say something quickly. It also makes the grind infinitely more salient. 1,1,1,1,1,1............1,1,1,1,1,1 is actually funner than 1...1...1...1...1...1...1... Yes, funner. The spacing of pushing a single button impacts brain stimulation. It's the difference between slogging through a day at the factory and, "Wait for it... wait for it... CHARGE!"

But they obviously don't have anyone who knows anything about psychology on staff.
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#57 Nov 03 2010 at 7:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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305 posts
Pikko wrote:
If you don't feel like playing at all, then sure, paying 12.95 is definitely not worth it. But for the people that are still playing and saying that they won't pay past the free trial, I don't think it's that big a deal to pay for the subscription fee the first paid month. I mean, I'll be paying more than my monthly fee just to go see Harry Potter in a few weeks. I'm ok with paying 12.95 at the end of the month simply because I'm still playing and having fun.


Personally, i'm one of the "on the fence" people that was referred to. Though i tend to be slightly more negative in my postings, i do see potential and really do want to see it develope into what it can be.

That said, if the updates are not done by the end of the free trial, i will be canceling.

That does not mean that i won't re-up once the fixes are implemented. Just that I won't be paying for the game in the current state. You're right, it is a small amount of money, but there are principles involved in this.
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#58 Nov 03 2010 at 8:47 PM Rating: Excellent
The only thing that matters for me at this point is what state the game is at when it launches on the PS-3. No matter how good it is or isn't before that point, that's S-Es one chance to blow my doors off. If it doesn't draw me in at that point then I'll move on to Guild Wars 2 or whatever.

Edited, Nov 3rd 2010 10:49pm by KarlHungis
#59 Nov 03 2010 at 9:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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Well written, but I disagree at the start. The game was not released to early; the game was released with one thing in mind. “How do we prevent any RMT from ever happening?”Far too many of the complaints are based on game play and if you really take the time to think about it, much of it is to prevent RMT.

We all heard about the AH, and most of us (and professional reviews) agree that the lack of an AH was to prevent RMT. A noble attempt SE, but I’ve posted this before and no one can come up with an answer. “Without an AH, how can one effectively trade goods at an MMORPG level?” I think most agree that the modified Rolanberry Fields, AKA the markets, is not the answer.

Some will argue that the “search” function will be the same as an AH but this is not true. The amount of time it will take you to search for an item, travel to that market, find the tagged player, and finally buy the item will be too long for MMO standards. And what if you wanted about 8 items for crafting? That’s a possible 8 trips to 8 different markets. The load time alone to enter 8 markets will be too much to make it any “fun.”

This is just one example; the lack of a mailbox is another attempt to block RMT from the start. Anyone who has tried to start a new character, and wanted to trade some of their main’s “old” stuff has been through this disaster.

These are obvious, but what about guild points? Another attempt to stop RMT from ever entering the game?

I played FFXI for 6 years and if you so much as posted the letters “RMT” in these forums you were rated down. There are now countless post about how WoW and other successful MMORPGs have dealt with RMT which I found odd from this community (normally it was RMT is evil and SE should do EVERYTHING to stop it).

I said it in the FFXI days, and a few times since FFXIV. Successful MMORPG have successful RMT. What makes or breaks the game is how the developer deals with it.

To “save” FFXIV (hopefully before the PS3 release) I’d highly recommend:
1. Fire the special task force
2. Find a way to tolerate RMT so the “average” player cannot afford to simply RMT whatever they want.
3. Accept the fact that some players can still afford RMT (they’re likely working more than playing FFXIV. That’s what SE wanted e.g. fatigue)
4. Hire a few western developers, because *example* many from this side of the world do not understand why the quest giver does not have a big yellow ! on top of his head (common, that’s a de-facto standard)
#60 Nov 03 2010 at 9:05 PM Rating: Decent
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Kachi wrote:


The effect gauge was a good concept. The differentiation of classes was good. These were things that could and should have stayed with the new system.

They also desperately need to add attack queuing, as I've been saying since alpha. The lack of attack queuing makes it extremely impractical to type/chat midbattle, and once people actually start partying and need to communicate, it's going to suck hard when people have to completely sacrifice an action or three just to say something quickly. It also makes the grind infinitely more salient. 1,1,1,1,1,1............1,1,1,1,1,1 is actually funner than 1...1...1...1...1...1...1... Yes, funner. The spacing of pushing a single button impacts brain stimulation. It's the difference between slogging through a day at the factory and, "Wait for it... wait for it... CHARGE!"

But they obviously don't have anyone who knows anything about psychology on staff.


Good post! I've never heard anything really except ARGGHH about alpha battle so cool to hear someone actually say something intelligible about that. Macros are sort of like queuing though, aren't they? I've made super workable "auto-attack" style macros that allow for me to focus on things like positioning and such, and would probably be good for helping chat mid battle
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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#61 Nov 03 2010 at 10:05 PM Rating: Good
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They really just need to realize two phrases and implement them.

"Known Issues" (This means the real known issues are realized and are not covered up because they didn't take the time to investigate.) They actually have a known issues post... and I really haven't seen a bigger joke than this.

"Patch Notes" (The REAL details of what the patch contains and how it affects player classes, interactions, and end user enjoyment.)

Who knows, maybe the patch on the 4th will do something. But again we are all in the dark about what they are actually doing. Thank god they aren't my mechanic. I'd probably get a bill for $120.00 and a receipt that reads "$120.00 is for known issues with your car. Here are the following issues. Oops I can't tell you the details of the known issues. Please pay me within 30 days for the known issues we fixed, about which we can't tell you, and several are too scared to ask."

I think the patch on the 4th will tell the majority of us if they are actually serious about their statements towards the end of October, or if they just plan to do the status quo. I think they should go out and pick up a copy of the original game Diablo. There is a reason that it was so much fun. Games like that are fun, not because they have the latest graphic engine, but rather the thought and creativity to form a game that makes the experience enjoyable to the end user.

#62Shabazzia, Posted: Nov 03 2010 at 10:18 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) could you imagine if every video game, not just MMO's, were flamed like this when they first come out? the gaming world would get nowhere lol. lets face it. everyones talking up ffxi, which dont get me wrong is an awesome game, i played it for 7 years, but it was also a horrible game when it frist came out. but THEY MADE IT BETTER. does no one else make this assumption?
#63 Nov 03 2010 at 10:19 PM Rating: Decent
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401 posts
At the following time period, we will be performing system maintenance on FINAL FANTASY XIV. During this period, FINAL FANTASY XIV will be unavailable.

We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause and thank you for your understanding.

[Date & Time]
Nov. 4, 2010 from 00:00 to 02:00 (PDT)
* Maintenance completion time may be subject to change.

[Affected Service]
FINAL FANTASY XIV

[Details]
System Maintenance



still miss the spot that says update or patch or ver update or file size or anything that says other then "system maintenance" guess my oil change is a hidden update?
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#64 Nov 03 2010 at 10:21 PM Rating: Decent
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126 posts
nick2412 wrote:
For console gamers.. do you find it fun reading from your tv that is approximately 6-20 feet away from you? (assuming you want good eye vision by the time you are 40) .. yeah no I don’t find reading captions fun.. and I almost sure no one will find it fun to read dialogs from so far away….


I think the ffxiv dialog from 5-7 feet away on my 60" HDTV looks just fine. The 5.1 (7.1 if I set it up) surround sound doesn't hurt. All while I get to relax in a comfy la-z-boy or chill on the couch with a wireless controller and keyboard.

From this console gamer, yes...it's very fun. Now if only I had more time to play....
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#65 Nov 03 2010 at 10:26 PM Rating: Good
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Kachi wrote:
Quote:
Alpha was started about 5 weeks late and featured a battle system that made me want to punch babies. I'm not sure how many of you played alpha phase, but if you did then ask yourself this question: Is this battle system something you would come to expect from a developer who has been making games with battle systems for decades now? For those of you who didn't witness it, the answer is a resounding "**** NO!". What they should have done was put this game on the shelf and waited to release the PC and PS3 versions simultaneously.


I thought that the battle system in alpha was decent, at least conceptually. The implementation was awful, and the server and UI lag made it totally unplayable. But the idea was reasonably solid. I would have made some important changes to it, but I think in some ways it was stronger than the current system, and have to wonder if a lot of the problems the game has now aren't a result of scrapping a lot of prior work to rush out a new system.

The effect gauge was a good concept. The differentiation of classes was good. These were things that could and should have stayed with the new system.


The problems with the alpha system were too many to make it anything worthwhile.

It was incredibly slow. You had to wait for a cooldown for every ability. After the cooldown you had to wait for the effect meter to fill. The worst thing was that if the meter went over it reset instead of going back down incrementally. Also, the effect was only useful on certain skills and these skills were the minority for the first 20 ranks or so unless you were a caster. The problems for casters though was having to select the target of your spell. The way they set the order of actions didn't make any sense. When it came time to stop the effect gauge it completely disappeared so you could select the target. Once you finished selecting the target it would reappear, usually too late for you to get the best effect.

I really think they should have had the effect work on 3 levels like it did, but instead of the boring old cooldown they could have just added the stamina bar. You'd lose more stamina based on which level of effect you selected. The problem with having a queue system is that they'd have to scrap the battle regimen thing they have and I don't think they were willing to do that. In theory it could have been exciting and I think people were really intrigued, but in practice it sucks =/
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#66 Nov 03 2010 at 10:39 PM Rating: Good
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472 posts
TheRealLusent wrote:
At the following time period, we will be performing system maintenance on FINAL FANTASY XIV. During this period, FINAL FANTASY XIV will be unavailable.

We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause and thank you for your understanding.

[Date & Time]
Nov. 4, 2010 from 00:00 to 02:00 (PDT)
* Maintenance completion time may be subject to change.

[Affected Service]
FINAL FANTASY XIV

[Details]
System Maintenance



still miss the spot that says update or patch or ver update or file size or anything that says other then "system maintenance" guess my oil change is a hidden update?


You are exactly correct. They are very vague. This tells us nothing other than that they are making an appointment for maintenance, with no details at all.
#67 Nov 03 2010 at 10:56 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Good post! I've never heard anything really except ARGGHH about alpha battle so cool to hear someone actually say something intelligible about that. Macros are sort of like queuing though, aren't they? I've made super workable "auto-attack" style macros that allow for me to focus on things like positioning and such, and would probably be good for helping chat mid battle


Well, there's a key difference between macros and queuing, and that's versatility. A macro has to be planned well in advance. With queuing, you can select several actions in ANY combination. Assuming you can somehow cancel a macro, both options will allow you to change that set of commands. But in a game that touted how strategic the battles would be, there's a problem when your attacks can be planned well in advance.

Quote:

The problems with the alpha system were too many to make it anything worthwhile.

It was incredibly slow. You had to wait for a cooldown for every ability. After the cooldown you had to wait for the effect meter to fill. The worst thing was that if the meter went over it reset instead of going back down incrementally. Also, the effect was only useful on certain skills and these skills were the minority for the first 20 ranks or so unless you were a caster. The problems for casters though was having to select the target of your spell. The way they set the order of actions didn't make any sense. When it came time to stop the effect gauge it completely disappeared so you could select the target. Once you finished selecting the target it would reappear, usually too late for you to get the best effect.

I really think they should have had the effect work on 3 levels like it did, but instead of the boring old cooldown they could have just added the stamina bar. You'd lose more stamina based on which level of effect you selected. The problem with having a queue system is that they'd have to scrap the battle regimen thing they have and I don't think they were willing to do that. In theory it could have been exciting and I think people were really intrigued, but in practice it sucks =/


Well fundamentally, the alpha system wasn't that different from the current one. But your criticisms are pretty much spot on. They needed to remove the timer for the effect gauge and create an actual balance between the different effects. Different stamina costs is a simple way of doing it-- ideally they'd go beyond that, making the abilities have different effects, accuracy, range, MP/TP costs, etc. There was so much potential lost. And then, particularly if you take away the timer, there's no need for an annoying confirmation on the effect.

However, they wouldn't have to scrap the battle regimen system to allow queuing. Queuing would always be an option-- not a requirement. But honestly, the battle regimen mechanic is so broken, it could use an overhaul, or for all it's worth now, scrapping it wouldn't mean much.
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#68 Nov 03 2010 at 11:25 PM Rating: Good
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Kachi wrote:
I don't know. For me, the money is a non-issue. Generally an MMO is one of the best time:money leisure investments you can make.

I'm not playing now because the game isn't fun. The fact that it's free isn't making me want to play. It's just keeping me from canceling my account right away.

I don't think many people at all are playing now but will quit once they have to start paying. And if they are, I have to wonder why they aren't just playing any of the many free games that are in much better shape.



I already quit and it's free; even though in the larger scheme of things I'm no one, I think an action such as this speaks volumes. I'm "playing" LOTRO now, but I'm really waiting now for Guild Wars 2.

The state of FFIXV in 6 months from now is what the state game should have been at release.

I'm tired of making excuses for SE. They're a big boy company and if they want my respect and more importantly my money they're going to have to learn how to communicate better, learn from their past mistakes and pretend like they've made a game with content before.

With running the risk of sounding too negative all signs point to them releasing a game to early (as Thayos stated) and expecting us to go along for the ride. I won't get on board until the rest of the track is made.

Edited, Nov 4th 2010 1:25am by Kierk
#69 Nov 03 2010 at 11:50 PM Rating: Default
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ButterflyM wrote:






World of Warcraft is probably where I'll stay, given that Cataclysm is soon to be released. I've only been in game for a few weeks, have more gold than I know what to do with right now, am doing amazing DPS without have done epic quests for ungodly gear. Higher DPS is out there. Ungodly gear is, too. And 80 is just a few days away...then the gear-up for 85 with Cataclysm's release=)



Much of your post describes the very reason many people that loved WoW have since left WoW.

WIthin a few weeks of playing the game, you have already levelled to max (or close to max), have more money than you know waht to do with, are doing awesome damage....etc.etc.

Some of us want something more of a challenge!
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FFXIV: Crafty Hallie, Ultros





#70 Nov 03 2010 at 11:55 PM Rating: Good
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Enscheff wrote:
[quote=chomama]

"many people are happily playing". Really?

Edited, Nov 3rd 2010 12:55pm by Enscheff


I'm one of the people happily playing. I dont work for SE, or ZAM or other fansite.

I do enjoy the game but agree there are things that need fixing.
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FFXIV: Crafty Hallie, Ultros





#71 Nov 04 2010 at 12:31 AM Rating: Decent
37 posts
Pikko wrote:
Although I'm with everyone else with the changes they need to make, I'm not going to quit in a huff over 12.95 and will wait one more month or even the next. I love the game and I just want them to fix it. I paid 50 bucks for XIII and I only got 2 hours entertainment out of that one before I got bored to tears, so thus far, XIV has been worth the money to me.



Lol my brother and I went in half and half on XIII and like you I made it about an hour into before I turned it off and never played it again.

LMAO but if you were to ask my brother XIII is the best non mmo final fantasty he has played, and he has played them all many times over.

For the 12.95 a month I'll pay it.
I honestly can't find what it is half of you are talking about thats so bad.
If you all are just hanging around because it's free at the moment why even stay to play at all? What's the point in putting so many hours into something that you might end up never turning back on in a month or two because they they didn't fix something you didn't like?






#72 Nov 04 2010 at 12:38 AM Rating: Default
37 posts
Parsalyn wrote:
TheRealLusent wrote:
At the following time period, we will be performing system maintenance on FINAL FANTASY XIV. During this period, FINAL FANTASY XIV will be unavailable.

We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause and thank you for your understanding.

[Date & Time]
Nov. 4, 2010 from 00:00 to 02:00 (PDT)
* Maintenance completion time may be subject to change.

[Affected Service]
FINAL FANTASY XIV

[Details]
System Maintenance

If they wanted you to know what the update was for they would tell you.
It's not like your not going to find out in a day or so anyways from the patch notes.

The way I understood it was that they like to keep it hush hush so that people will not hack what ever it is they are trying to fix.





still miss the spot that says update or patch or ver update or file size or anything that says other then "system maintenance" guess my oil change is a hidden update?


You are exactly correct. They are very vague. This tells us nothing other than that they are making an appointment for maintenance, with no details at all.

#73 Nov 04 2010 at 12:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
If you all are just hanging around because it's free at the moment why even stay to play at all? What's the point in putting so many hours into something that you might end up never turning back on in a month or two because they they didn't fix something you didn't like?


I reiterate: I doubt if hardly anyone is playing just because it's free. A lot of us haven't canceled our accounts because it's free.

Roughly 15% of players have unsubscribed regardless of it being free. But a lot of us are just waiting to see if things turn around. When the free period is really over, then I'll wager you start to see a really large falling off of subscriptions. Personally, I almost can't imagine that I WON'T cancel, so it's just a matter of procrastinating for me.
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#74 Nov 04 2010 at 1:25 AM Rating: Decent
37 posts
Kachi wrote:
Quote:
If you all are just hanging around because it's free at the moment why even stay to play at all? What's the point in putting so many hours into something that you might end up never turning back on in a month or two because they they didn't fix something you didn't like?


I reiterate: I doubt if hardly anyone is playing just because it's free. A lot of us haven't canceled our accounts because it's free.

Roughly 15% of players have unsubscribed regardless of it being free. But a lot of us are just waiting to see if things turn around. When the free period is really over, then I'll wager you start to see a really large falling off of subscriptions. Personally, I almost can't imagine that I WON'T cancel, so it's just a matter of procrastinating for me.


Sorry I wasn't trying to say that why everyone is staying around. I was saying to the people that are just hanging around to be hanging around.

I myself couldn't just play a game for hours days and turn around and just say well times up not free anymore and turn it off and be done. That's what many people on here are saying they will do if they don't see change soon.

Let me ask you and I guess everyone else. What's so bad about this game that you just can't stand it?
Because like I said before I can't find it and I've looked.
#75 Nov 04 2010 at 2:00 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I'm ok with paying 12.95 at the end of the month simply because I'm still playing and having fun.


Care to elaborate on what's actually fun for you?
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#76 Nov 04 2010 at 2:05 AM Rating: Excellent
Moxley wrote:
Quote:
I'm ok with paying 12.95 at the end of the month simply because I'm still playing and having fun.


Care to elaborate on what's actually fun for you?


I really don't see why she should have to explain it. It's fun for her (and me). That's about all the elaboration anyone should need. Are you expecting a point by point essay in which you'd shoot down everything she'd say? If you don't like it, great. I don't see the need to rain on other people's parades.
#77 Nov 04 2010 at 2:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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4,153 posts
zereoeffect101 wrote:
What's so bad about this game that you just can't stand it? Because like I said before I can't find it and I've looked.


You can check the sticky to get an idea of what most people are upset about. Complaints Department has a pretty big list of reasons why most people are unwilling to play.


____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#78 Nov 04 2010 at 2:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Let me ask you and I guess everyone else. What's so bad about this game that you just can't stand it?
Because like I said before I can't find it and I've looked.


Y'know there are both a complaints sticky and suggestions forum right?

Subjectively I don't feel the need to progress. The only carrot was the main story line. Right now there's nothing to buy, nothing to want and no real sense of direction. I want to go to Ishgard but there's nothing there.

I think a large part of these sorts of gripes will he fixed in time. In FFXI I was motivated to level up because there were goals to obtain; subjobs, advanced jobs, gear and the airship pass and getting to ride a chocobo . In FFXiV there's none of that...yet.

In addition to those subjective things there are the obvious mechanical things every one else is taking about , coupled with the stubborness of SE, (which I talked about in my earlier post) really takes the fun out.

Yet all of these things can be fixed or added, but I'm not going to be pulled along, I'll wait and see in a few months (closer to the ps3 release) and see how far the game has progressed.
#79 Nov 04 2010 at 2:24 AM Rating: Default
37 posts
FilthMcNasty wrote:
zereoeffect101 wrote:
What's so bad about this game that you just can't stand it? Because like I said before I can't find it and I've looked.


You can check the sticky to get an idea of what most people are upset about. Complaints Department has a pretty big list of reasons why most people are unwilling to play.




What UI,Lag,no AH, retainer, ect,ect,ect.

So for the most part the same crap that's been talked about 100 times that SE said they plan on fixing at some point with in the next month or two?

I don't know why I was looking for a better answer than what you gave me. Do you really just dislike the game because we have no AH,Lag,ect.

I will say I didn't like the lag at all but it seems to have cleared up in the past week. I guess it was do to the update.
The 2 sec delay in the menu doesn't bug me much at all.
And I could care less if I ever see an AH added to the game at all.
I don't see much of a problem with what we have at this point, Need a search but that's on the way from what I've read.






#80zereoeffect101, Posted: Nov 04 2010 at 2:35 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Ty that's all I was looking. I don't need to head over to a sticky thread and read the same crap over and over again.
#81 Nov 04 2010 at 2:46 AM Rating: Good
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zereoeffect101 wrote:
What UI,Lag,no AH, retainer, ect,ect,ect.

So for the most part the same crap that's been talked about 100 times that SE said they plan on fixing at some point with in the next month or two?

I don't know why I was looking for a better answer than what you gave me. Do you really just dislike the game because we have no AH,Lag,ect.


I didn't give an answer, I asked you to find it. If you're asking me personally, I don't play because I don't find any reason to enter Eorzea. There is not much story, the quests have no point or meaning, and I find it boring. The 'UI, lag, no AH...' that you mention is just compounding the problem. I was an alpha tester and saw all these problems back in April/May and here we are in November... well if it hasn't been addressed in 6 months (during testing where all this **** is supposed to be polished up) why would I expect it to be addressed in the next 6 weeks? At this rate, I'll almost be shocked if they fix these issues by PS3 launch.



____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#82 Nov 04 2010 at 2:48 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:

I really don't see why she should have to explain it. It's fun for her (and me). That's about all the elaboration anyone should need. Are you expecting a point by point essay in which you'd shoot down everything she'd say? If you don't like it, great. I don't see the need to rain on other people's parades.


This is exactly the response I was expecting. All the elaboration I should need about continuing to pay 12.95 is because the admins of a fan site say its fun? No thank you. As to the shoot down everything she'd say and rain on her parade I think you are assuming a bit much there.


Edit: As you can see I haven't quite mastered the quote system. When I click reply to post what I think should happen doesn't actually happen.

Edited, Nov 4th 2010 4:50am by Moxley
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#83 Nov 04 2010 at 2:53 AM Rating: Decent
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Moxley wrote:
Quote:

I really don't see why she should have to explain it. It's fun for her (and me). That's about all the elaboration anyone should need. Are you expecting a point by point essay in which you'd shoot down everything she'd say? If you don't like it, great. I don't see the need to rain on other people's parades.


This is exactly the response I was expecting. All the elaboration I should need about continuing to pay 12.95 is because the admins of a fan site say its fun? No thank you. As to the shoot down everything she'd say and rain on her parade I think you are assuming a bit much there.


Edit: As you can see I haven't quite mastered the quote system. When I click reply to post what I think should happen doesn't actually happen.

Edited, Nov 4th 2010 4:50am by Moxley


Squint a little closer. Fun "for them". Why is it so unfathomable that people have their own personal perceptions of things? Their perception of the game being fun shouldn't mean anything to you other than they like the game. If you don't find the game enjoyable that just simply means, well, you don't find the game enjoyable and there's certainly nothing wrong with that. Just means you may need to sit and wait to see how the game changes, or play a different game.
#84zereoeffect101, Posted: Nov 04 2010 at 2:58 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Cranky much?
#85 Nov 04 2010 at 3:08 AM Rating: Excellent
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Here is where the disconnect is coming from. This forum is covered from head to toe of why people don't find this game fun. Maybe I'm looking for something positive to get me back, I already appreciate her idea, and others might not jive with me. It would be refreshing to see a different point of view on the game then my own. That is the whole reason of coming to a fan site. I'm not happy this game didn't even come close to my expectations, I'm a Final Fantasy fan through and through. It's pretty safe to say most people here are.
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#86 Nov 04 2010 at 3:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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zereoeffect101 wrote:
Cranky much?
I don't recall saying anything about you giving me an answer. But I would have to say when you told me to go look at the sticky you were for the most part telling me that what ever I find or see in the sticky is what you dislike about the game. I was more or less just saying what I would find in the stickys that you told me I should go to.

And yes I was asking you personally.

PS: I love my Score.


What gives you the impression that I'm cranky?

zereoeffect101 wrote:
Let me ask you and I guess everyone else. What's so bad about this game that you just can't stand it?


This is what you posted. It followed a quote you used from someone who is not me. I would be part of the 'everyone else' so I gave a general answer to the general question. If you already have the answer to the question, why are you baiting? You now have my answer as well.

If you're referring to the score of your posts and suggesting that I rated you down, you're wrong. I don't normally bother with the arrows unless they're green. I rate people up for making a valid point, providing useful information or sometimes just for the **** of it. You don't really qualify for any of those so I left it alone.


____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#87 Nov 04 2010 at 4:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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551 posts
zereoeffect101 wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
zereoeffect101 wrote:
What's so bad about this game that you just can't stand it? Because like I said before I can't find it and I've looked.


You can check the sticky to get an idea of what most people are upset about. Complaints Department has a pretty big list of reasons why most people are unwilling to play.




What UI,Lag,no AH, retainer, ect,ect,ect.

So for the most part the same crap that's been talked about 100 times that SE said they plan on fixing at some point with in the next month or two?

I don't know why I was looking for a better answer than what you gave me. Do you really just dislike the game because we have no AH,Lag,ect.

I will say I didn't like the lag at all but it seems to have cleared up in the past week. I guess it was do to the update.
The 2 sec delay in the menu doesn't bug me much at all.
And I could care less if I ever see an AH added to the game at all.
I don't see much of a problem with what we have at this point, Need a search but that's on the way from what I've read.








Some people are happy with a piece of leftover pizza.

Others, like myself, prefer a full meal.

Right now, to me, FFXIV is a piece of stale pizza with nary a microwave to even bring it close to edible.
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#88zereoeffect101, Posted: Nov 04 2010 at 4:24 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) You just came off as being cranky to me for some reason is all.
#89 Nov 04 2010 at 4:47 AM Rating: Good
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IF Square-Enix actually fixes the problems with this game, which I doubt they will. CE free subscription is up in 2 and a half weeks. When will the November update be? 3 or 4 days before the 22nd? Is that enough time to prove to people that the game is actually fun now?

Personally I paid $75 for the game, bought a wireless controller for $25 and upgraded my GPU for $100. I have no inclination to spend another $13 to find out if things are any better.

I don't think Square can afford to not give another free month after the update. Casual players will barely have enough time to make a decision depending on their schedules, especially(for NA players) with this all happening right around Thanksgiving. Looking right now, of the 18/19 days left of free play, I'm working 10 of those. I work fewer days with more hours, leaving no play time on work days. This further compounds the 36hr timer problem, I get to play twice per weekend and lose all leves that came out during my work week.

I'm just not holding my breath I guess...
#90 Nov 04 2010 at 4:57 AM Rating: Decent
37 posts
KitsurubamiSouzahara wrote:
IF Square-Enix actually fixes the problems with this game, which I doubt they will. CE free subscription is up in 2 and a half weeks. When will the November update be? 3 or 4 days before the 22nd? Is that enough time to prove to people that the game is actually fun now?

Personally I paid $75 for the game, bought a wireless controller for $25 and upgraded my GPU for $100. I have no inclination to spend another $13 to find out if things are any better.

I don't think Square can afford to not give another free month after the update. Casual players will barely have enough time to make a decision depending on their schedules, especially(for NA players) with this all happening right around Thanksgiving. Looking right now, of the 18/19 days left of free play, I'm working 10 of those. I work fewer days with more hours, leaving no play time on work days. This further compounds the 36hr timer problem, I get to play twice per weekend and lose all leves that came out during my work week.

I'm just not holding my breath I guess...


I think I have another month of free time to go. I started on the Oct 4th.
I'm kind of like you I work swing shifts so by the time I get sleep, hang with the wife and play for a few hours out of the week I've missed a lot of things like the 36 hour leve reset.

I guess I never really thought about that along with a few other things that I've seen posted tonight.
And I can see where some people are coming from.
I would have to say I haven't put in the time yet to really see some of the problems that most of you are talking about.

Thats why I was asking before.
#91 Nov 04 2010 at 8:12 AM Rating: Good
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KitsurubamiSouzahara wrote:
IF Square-Enix actually fixes the problems with this game, which I doubt they will. CE free subscription is up in 2 and a half weeks. When will the November update be? 3 or 4 days before the 22nd? Is that enough time to prove to people that the game is actually fun now?

Personally I paid $75 for the game, bought a wireless controller for $25 and upgraded my GPU for $100. I have no inclination to spend another $13 to find out if things are any better.

I don't think Square can afford to not give another free month after the update. Casual players will barely have enough time to make a decision depending on their schedules, especially(for NA players) with this all happening right around Thanksgiving. Looking right now, of the 18/19 days left of free play, I'm working 10 of those. I work fewer days with more hours, leaving no play time on work days. This further compounds the 36hr timer problem, I get to play twice per weekend and lose all leves that came out during my work week.

I'm just not holding my breath I guess...


They won't fix the game that's almost certain. Mainly because even if you look past the stupid design decisions on the surface (UI, Retainers, etc) the game is fundamentally flawed at it's core.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the only content they have announced is more leves and some NMs. I can't be the only one who thinks this is **** poor excuse for more content. What I need right now are side quests, missions, anything that would develop more of a bond between me and this game. I don't want more mindless monster killing and NM camping.

As far as the free time extensions go, they'd be daft not to give us at a minimum another 2 months (into january so we get to see the Dec update). This free month was pointless, nothing changed to convince anyone to stay. However, I'm secretly hoping they don't. More free months just give me less reason to uninstall. At this point I'm only here b/c of the free play time, my Flist/LS is full of gray dots. Those people I started the game with are not coming back (the main reason I played this game).

Edited, Nov 4th 2010 10:12am by Nutchoss
#92 Nov 04 2010 at 9:45 AM Rating: Decent
13 posts
Anybody catch the browns game the other day?
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#93 Nov 04 2010 at 10:48 AM Rating: Default
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Shabazzia wrote:
Anybody catch the browns game the other day?


Before I flushed yes.
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#94 Nov 04 2010 at 1:19 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
What's so bad about this game that you just can't stand it?


The main offender to me is that the gameplay is simply boring, and by that I'm referring primarily to the act of killing a monster. What's fun about killing them? Nothing. No particular reflexes are required of me, and nothing strategically special is required either. There's absolutely no challenge-- it's simply a grind.

The UI sucks, the economy is horribly designed, and there's virtually no content-- fine. If the battles were even remotely interesting, I could tolerate all of that. I might not even mind the absurdly slow leveling pace. Making skill rank ups faster might satisfy me since I could at least play with more classes and abilities without having to waste so much time to get them.

Really, short of running around and looking at the scenery, the game just doesn't do anything for me. It was fun for about the first 50ish hours just because it was novel and I was excited for it, but that's over now.

Ultimately the game is far too simple. The only thing it tests is my patience, which is the one thing I DON'T need tested.
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#95 Nov 04 2010 at 2:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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Moxley wrote:
Quote:

I really don't see why she should have to explain it. It's fun for her (and me). That's about all the elaboration anyone should need. Are you expecting a point by point essay in which you'd shoot down everything she'd say? If you don't like it, great. I don't see the need to rain on other people's parades.


This is exactly the response I was expecting. All the elaboration I should need about continuing to pay 12.95 is because the admins of a fan site say its fun? No thank you. As to the shoot down everything she'd say and rain on her parade I think you are assuming a bit much there.


Edit: As you can see I haven't quite mastered the quote system. When I click reply to post what I think should happen doesn't actually happen.

Edited, Nov 4th 2010 4:50am by Moxley


You asked for an explanation of what *I* find fun about the game, not why YOU should be having fun in the game and pay a monthly fee. If that's what you were really asking, then next time ask that instead.

I mean, what exactly DO you want me to elaborate on? I get to play basically every day and while I'm doing so, I have fun. Do you need a breakdown on what I do when I log on? How will that help you understand that I like something? I like to read too. It's fun. I can't explain any more than that, really.
#96 Nov 04 2010 at 2:20 PM Rating: Default
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401 posts
Pikko wrote:
Moxley wrote:
Quote:

I really don't see why she should have to explain it. It's fun for her (and me). That's about all the elaboration anyone should need. Are you expecting a point by point essay in which you'd shoot down everything she'd say? If you don't like it, great. I don't see the need to rain on other people's parades.


This is exactly the response I was expecting. All the elaboration I should need about continuing to pay 12.95 is because the admins of a fan site say its fun? No thank you. As to the shoot down everything she'd say and rain on her parade I think you are assuming a bit much there.


Edit: As you can see I haven't quite mastered the quote system. When I click reply to post what I think should happen doesn't actually happen.

Edited, Nov 4th 2010 4:50am by Moxley


You asked for an explanation of what *I* find fun about the game, not why YOU should be having fun in the game and pay a monthly fee. If that's what you were really asking, then next time ask that instead.

I mean, what exactly DO you want me to elaborate on? I get to play basically every day and while I'm doing so, I have fun. Do you need a breakdown on what I do when I log on? How will that help you understand that I like something? I like to read too. It's fun. I can't explain any more than that, really.


Omg. lol too bad that we cant rate admins because Pikko this was a green arrow up for sure.
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#97 Nov 04 2010 at 2:27 PM Rating: Default
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Kachi wrote:
Quote:
What's so bad about this game that you just can't stand it?


The main offender to me is that the gameplay is simply boring, and by that I'm referring primarily to the act of killing a monster. What's fun about killing them? Nothing. No particular reflexes are required of me, and nothing strategically special is required either. There's absolutely no challenge-- it's simply a grind.



Huh, maybe you just need to challenge yourself then.

I find defeating mobs to actually be way more challenging than it was in XI or WoW, myself, since positioning can play such a big role, as well as a lack of auto-attack, the importance of preserving stamina - and the need to customize your builds around your playstyle...granted I only ever played lock in WoW but it honestly wasn't very tough to send out my tank demon then hit my attack spell over and over from a distance.

yeah if you are still grinding rats at R8 or R12, it won't be challenging - CLUE - you need to find tougher prey.

I defeated a mole with my R2 Glad the other day... and it wasn't easy - but it sure was fun.

I am sorry you don't enjoy the playstyle - but don't act like you are some high and mighty master who can't deign to be amused by the easy and pointless gameplay which satisfies lesser beings.

Other than at endgame - which is a totally different ball game - how are other games more challenging, battle wise? I honestly find no auto-attack to be much more challenging than auto-attack - and as a mage I DEEPLY appreciate not having my job being pressing cure cure cure cure cure cure cure without ever even doing a single thing to the mob, and then sitting on my *** till the next pull... bo-ring.



Edited, Nov 4th 2010 1:27pm by Olorinus
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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#98 Nov 04 2010 at 2:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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SE made several mistakes in designing FFXIV:

1. They focused their design efforts on the grind (ex. fishing "nothing bites" message, synthesis taking tons of crystals, SP being awarded randomly) so that it takes **** forever and hours are wasted just staring at the screen or collecting stuff. Today's MMO players won't tolerate this. If its not fun, they'll move on. Too many SE fanboys defend this as "challenge" just because it takes forever. No.

2. They focused too much on RMT. Server lag for every action is not acceptable. Searching endless 999999999 bazaars and dodo skin, moko grass retainers is fail. When I want something, I want to be able to bid and have it within 1 minute. I don't have time otherwise.

3. UI designed for a controller. Again no. MMO basic control scheme of mouse/keyboard is established and copied by 10 other games. Why change this?

4. Other than the main story which takes 10 minutes every 5 levels and the short amount of text given for guildleves, absolutely no quests. Why not?

I have hopes for some great changes later this month, but considering they didn't even bring the good parts of FFXI across, its not much hope. We'll see.

#99 Nov 04 2010 at 3:00 PM Rating: Good
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I never claimed that FFXI or WoW were more challenging. As far as I'm concerned, they aren't significantly different, and that's a problem, because those games aren't especially challenging either.

Quote:
I am sorry you don't enjoy the playstyle - but don't act like you are some high and mighty master who can't deign to be amused by the easy and pointless gameplay which satisfies lesser beings.


Oh, was I acting like that? No, I wasn't. So refer to sig.

But your words are apt-- the gameplay is easy and pointless.

Fighting tougher prey suffers from two problems-- it's not necessarily more productive in terms of time:progress, and the battles are still laborious because you fight the same mobs with the same tactics. Neither dexterity nor ingenuity are required. If you find them challenging, then maybe-- and I earnestly do not mean to be insulting-- you really just aren't very good at video games. If that's the case, then there's nothing wrong with that. I'm certainly not all that special myself, but that only leads me to the conclusion that the game is similarly easy for most people.
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#100 Nov 04 2010 at 3:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
UI designed for a controller. Again no. MMO basic control scheme of mouse/keyboard is established and copied by 10 other games. Why change this?


I really don't think the problem was that it was designed for a controller. Personally I prefer a controller, but it's not optimal for a controller either. It's just not a very good UI, period.

I really hoped they would take advantage of the controller to allow for button combo macros, but instead everything is one button at a time.
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#101Olorinus the Vile, Posted: Nov 04 2010 at 3:21 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I'm certainly not fantastic at video-games - but I did find this insulting. It's like people who craft and just hit standard over and over again with no other tactic and then either say it is broken or boring.
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