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Editorial: Better Late Than Never?Follow

#102 Nov 04 2010 at 3:24 PM Rating: Good
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If you actually put some effort in it is actually challenging. Aiming to HQ is challenging. The same goes for battle. You can just button-mash to defeat dodos, or you can actually work on stunning them, getting behind them, avoiding their AOE. You will probably win either way - but I find playing well to be much more satisfying than just grinding my face off.

So no, it isn't challenging if you don't actually put any effort in. But I know that the work I do today on easier prey will make me a better player on tougher targets, and TBH I have already seen it pay off.


See, you were wrong to assume that I haven't already been doing that all along.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#103 Nov 04 2010 at 3:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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Olorinus the Vile wrote:
I find defeating mobs to actually be way more challenging than it was in XI or WoW, myself, since positioning can play such a big role, as well as a lack of auto-attack, the importance of preserving stamina - and the need to customize your builds around your playstyle...granted I only ever played lock in WoW but it honestly wasn't very tough to send out my tank demon then hit my attack spell over and over from a distance.


Horrible example. Actually, probably the worst example you could have used comparing FFXIV and WoW. If you played lock in WoW and sent your voidwalker in to tank a single mob while you spammed the same spell then you were doing it wrong. The same challenge you asked him to find in FFXIV you should have looked for in WoW.

What you should have been doing was sending your voidwalker at a mob, DoTing it up and then moving on to the next mob. With this stragegy you could gather up a large group of mobs as you moved through a camp and maximized your exp while providing a challenge. You have to monitor your threat, your pet's threat, your position, mobs position and if any mobs tried to flee, cooldowns for your spells and when the DoT would wear off of all your targets... so on. Much more than you need to focus on in FFXIV while grinding and this could all be done before level 20. The difference is that in WoW you knew you were going to get a consistent amount of exp faster and more efficiently. In FFXIV you could try to pull the same thing off or fight tougher mobs, but the reward is not worth the risk.
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#104 Nov 04 2010 at 4:05 PM Rating: Decent
4 posts
I don't understand the stance that I see so many people take. How could any purposed fix happen "too late?" Regardless of when the fix comes, each of us has already purchased the game. We own it. For ever. If they fix the game in two years from now as a worst case scenario. Will you refuse to play it out of spite? Will you honestly waste your money?

It really is too bad that the state of the game is dismal right now. It's a shame that we were handed this mess for the price we paid. The point is, we did pay. That leaves us with a few options. We can play anyway, to get that head start. To be in a better position either in terms of rank, or in terms of gil. Adversely, we could refuse to play an incomplete game. Either option is valid; If the game doesn't run well for you, if you're bored with what we have available... don't play. It's very obviously well within your rights. This brings us to the point that I just can't wrap my head around: If you don't want to play now, why refuse to play when it's fixed? You already spent the money.

As frosty as Square Enix has been towards it's player base, they were constantly at least attempting to improve FFXI. Some changes alienated one group, while supporting another. What they did do, however, was keep XI running, and keep new content being added in. Why does everyone seem to think that the level of content we have now for XIV is what we're getting stuck with for ever? Considering the phenomenal amount of money they have put into FFXIV, surely it would be asinine for them to leave it to die. Not when they can lure so many of us back by doing the right thing. Yes, they should have done the right thing already. The game should have been released finished. "Should have" is different than "did." We have what we have, and there is no going back. The game can only improve from this point. Cheer up.
#105 Nov 04 2010 at 4:41 PM Rating: Decent
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TheRealLusent wrote:
Shabazzia wrote:
Anybody catch the browns game the other day?


Before I flushed yes.


**** YES. <3
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#106 Nov 04 2010 at 5:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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305 posts
Olorinus the Vile wrote:
Kachi wrote:
Quote:
What's so bad about this game that you just can't stand it?


The main offender to me is that the gameplay is simply boring, and by that I'm referring primarily to the act of killing a monster. What's fun about killing them? Nothing. No particular reflexes are required of me, and nothing strategically special is required either. There's absolutely no challenge-- it's simply a grind.



Huh, maybe you just need to challenge yourself then.

I find defeating mobs to actually be way more challenging than it was in XI or WoW, myself, since positioning can play such a big role, as well as a lack of auto-attack, the importance of preserving stamina - and the need to customize your builds around your playstyle...granted I only ever played lock in WoW but it honestly wasn't very tough to send out my tank demon then hit my attack spell over and over from a distance.



Try leveling a rogue in wow (specifically a combat rogue). it is very similar to ffxiv leveling. Stamina = energy. TP = a greater quantity combo points. Spam sinister strike to generate combo points, use abilities with those combo points. That is pretty much the same thing as "spam main attack to generate TP, use abilities with that TP".

In regards to the positioning here... maybe i am doing something wrong but aside from the initial hit when soloing mobs "auto face" me, preventing me from doing any rear attacks. Unless they happen to be running away or spazing out for some reason. So, was it just me / my lag or is is possible to circle straife mobs to get in different angle hits?


Quote:
The game should have been released finished. "Should have" is different than "did." We have what we have, and there is no going back. The game can only improve from this point. Cheer up.


So what you are saying is that the game is a 0/10 then? Sorry to nit pick, but that is the statement you made.

Anyway, if the game is a 4/10, sure it can get better (or worse) ... but how much better is the key. SE can make the game a 10/10, or they can make it a 5/10. Big difference, any realistically, expecting all of the problems to magically go away is not practical, especially with SE's track record.

Incoming negativity:

I mean, how long did it take for SE to adapt to the playerbase's use of ninja? how long did it take them to adjust summoner to no longer be primarily defined by its subjob? ****, how long has it taken them to finish wings of the goddess?

Edited, Nov 4th 2010 7:40pm by KacesofCaitsith
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#107 Nov 04 2010 at 8:48 PM Rating: Default
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Olorinus the Vile wrote:
I find defeating mobs to actually be way more challenging than it was in XI or WoW, myself, since positioning can play such a big role, as well as a lack of auto-attack, the importance of preserving stamina - and the need to customize your builds around your playstyle...granted I only ever played lock in WoW but it honestly wasn't very tough to send out my tank demon then hit my attack spell over and over from a distance.


Horrible example. Actually, probably the worst example you could have used comparing FFXIV and WoW. If you played lock in WoW and sent your voidwalker in to tank a single mob while you spammed the same spell then you were doing it wrong. The same challenge you asked him to find in FFXIV you should have looked for in WoW.

What you should have been doing was sending your voidwalker at a mob, DoTing it up and then moving on to the next mob. With this stragegy you could gather up a large group of mobs as you moved through a camp and maximized your exp while providing a challenge. You have to monitor your threat, your pet's threat, your position, mobs position and if any mobs tried to flee, cooldowns for your spells and when the DoT would wear off of all your targets... so on. Much more than you need to focus on in FFXIV while grinding and this could all be done before level 20. The difference is that in WoW you knew you were going to get a consistent amount of exp faster and more efficiently. In FFXIV you could try to pull the same thing off or fight tougher mobs, but the reward is not worth the risk.


Only terrible warlocks use a voidwalker for leveling. What you should actually do is summon your pet of choice, put it on defensive and tank the damage yourself as you chain kill every thing in range. :D
#108 Nov 04 2010 at 9:45 PM Rating: Default
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KacesofCaitsith wrote:
In regards to the positioning here... maybe i am doing something wrong but aside from the initial hit when soloing mobs "auto face" me, preventing me from doing any rear attacks. Unless they happen to be running away or spazing out for some reason. So, was it just me / my lag or is is possible to circle straife mobs to get in different angle hits?


Mobs don't always turn as you rotate around them. Frequently (and especially right after they've done an attack of any kind) they face the same direction until they're about to attack again. That's how you can get out of the way of a dodo's Rancid Belch or a puk's Backflip before they even start charging it. I rarely get tagged by Rancid Breath unless the dodo starts charging it when I'm locked into an animation of some sort (ie. the start or end of casting a spell or any WS animation). Also, the closer you are to the mob the faster you rotate around them if you've got them locked and hold left or right. If you're practically standing on their toes, you can spin around to their back in about a second.
#109 Nov 04 2010 at 9:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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I don't understand the stance that I see so many people take. How could any purposed fix happen "too late?" Regardless of when the fix comes, each of us has already purchased the game. We own it. For ever. If they fix the game in two years from now as a worst case scenario. Will you refuse to play it out of spite? Will you honestly waste your money?


I think when most people say "too late" they mean too late to keep them from canceling their subscription. That's what I mean, anyway. If the game does wind up in decent shape, I'll definitely give it another look. But the way things are now, I'm not at all optimistic.

The thing is, say that the game looks decent in 2 years. But if it took TWO YEARS to get to that point, then I can expect that other changes to issues are going to trickle in very slowly. Why play a game that gets serviced so slowly? When the next expansion comes along with a whole host of new issues, how long will I have to wait for those to be fixed?
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#110 Nov 04 2010 at 10:23 PM Rating: Good
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551 posts
TheAvondahl wrote:
I don't understand the stance that I see so many people take. How could any purposed fix happen "too late?" Regardless of when the fix comes, each of us has already purchased the game. We own it. For ever. If they fix the game in two years from now as a worst case scenario. Will you refuse to play it out of spite? Will you honestly waste your money?

It really is too bad that the state of the game is dismal right now. It's a shame that we were handed this mess for the price we paid. The point is, we did pay. That leaves us with a few options. We can play anyway, to get that head start. To be in a better position either in terms of rank, or in terms of gil. Adversely, we could refuse to play an incomplete game. Either option is valid; If the game doesn't run well for you, if you're bored with what we have available... don't play. It's very obviously well within your rights. This brings us to the point that I just can't wrap my head around: If you don't want to play now, why refuse to play when it's fixed? You already spent the money.

As frosty as Square Enix has been towards it's player base, they were constantly at least attempting to improve FFXI. Some changes alienated one group, while supporting another. What they did do, however, was keep XI running, and keep new content being added in. Why does everyone seem to think that the level of content we have now for XIV is what we're getting stuck with for ever? Considering the phenomenal amount of money they have put into FFXIV, surely it would be asinine for them to leave it to die. Not when they can lure so many of us back by doing the right thing. Yes, they should have done the right thing already. The game should have been released finished. "Should have" is different than "did." We have what we have, and there is no going back. The game can only improve from this point. Cheer up.


Let's say someone buys a new video card for $70 with no refund clause (just like buying FFXIV). After two days it dies ( the person realizes there's no real difference between launch and the previous beta, there's nothing to really do, etc.). So they call the manufacturer for a replacement ( tell SE on forums and through reviews they want real content and ridiculous systems fixed). The store (SE)says it'll take 8 weeks (two months) to authorize and send the replacement. They'll also need another $12.99 (sub) for shipping.

Now what do you think most people would do? Sit with no video card (game) while waiting for their new card (patched game) and spending an extra $12.99 on top of the $70 they already paid originally just to see if the new card (patched game) will work better than what they have now?

Or will they just write off the card (game) as crap, cut their losses, and get a new card (game) that they can use and enjoy now?

And this, my friend, is why the time they've given people "free" while sitting back and waiting to patch in all their promises is mostly wasted, because people are cutting their losses for a game they can play now and not in December. For them, the money has already been wasted.

By the time they get tired of the game they chose to play now instead of FFXIV, SW:ToR, Rifts, and a bunch more new mmos will be out. Why look back when you can just go forward? FFXIV will just be a distant memory, just like AoC, Vanguard, and other "failed" mmos are to their launch players.



Edited, Nov 5th 2010 12:34am by Zorvan
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#111 Nov 04 2010 at 11:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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Olorinus the Vile wrote:
Kachi wrote:
If you find them challenging, then maybe-- and I earnestly do not mean to be insulting-- you really just aren't very good at video games. If that's the case, then there's nothing wrong with that.


I'm certainly not fantastic at video-games - but I did find this insulting. It's like people who craft and just hit standard over and over again with no other tactic and then either say it is broken or boring.

If you actually put some effort in it is actually challenging. Aiming to HQ is challenging. The same goes for battle. You can just button-mash to defeat dodos, or you can actually work on stunning them, getting behind them, avoiding their AOE. You will probably win either way - but I find playing well to be much more satisfying than just grinding my face off.

So no, it isn't challenging if you don't actually put any effort in. But I know that the work I do today on easier prey will make me a better player on tougher targets, and TBH I have already seen it pay off.


Therein lies the problem of your point. You have to force yourself to come up with measures in standard situations in order to make them challenging. That's no different than stating "This rat is really hard to kill with this wooden spoon, but dayum if it isn't challenging!" It's the exact same flawed logic that people tried to attribute to FFXIII around the whole auto-attack debacle. The reason to ever not do it the established way was due to Unique Snowflake Syndrome (auto-attack, not healing) or very, very rare instances where the AI accidentally used the wrong element.

If you have to design and coordinate the fights yourself as to make them challenging, then they aren't challenging at all.

Aurelius wrote:
KacesofCaitsith wrote:
In regards to the positioning here... maybe i am doing something wrong but aside from the initial hit when soloing mobs "auto face" me, preventing me from doing any rear attacks. Unless they happen to be running away or spazing out for some reason. So, was it just me / my lag or is is possible to circle straife mobs to get in different angle hits?


Mobs don't always turn as you rotate around them. Frequently (and especially right after they've done an attack of any kind) they face the same direction until they're about to attack again. That's how you can get out of the way of a dodo's Rancid Belch or a puk's Backflip before they even start charging it. I rarely get tagged by Rancid Breath unless the dodo starts charging it when I'm locked into an animation of some sort (ie. the start or end of casting a spell or any WS animation). Also, the closer you are to the mob the faster you rotate around them if you've got them locked and hold left or right. If you're practically standing on their toes, you can spin around to their back in about a second.


The monsters are stupid, basically. People can say what they want about that game's AI, but at least the monsters were smart enough to move around and keep their target in sight. This type of "tactical play" is more of a lazy design than anything impressive.
#112 Nov 05 2010 at 12:45 AM Rating: Default
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KarlHungis Delivers on Time wrote:
Only terrible warlocks use a voidwalker for leveling. What you should actually do is summon your pet of choice, put it on defensive and tank the damage yourself as you chain kill every thing in range. :D

Eh, perhaps things have changed. I haven't played WoW in years, but I remember rolling around areas with 6-10 mobs on me at all times. I pretty much only stopped to loot corpses and never really had any downtime that way so I wouldn't consider it terrible.
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#113 Nov 05 2010 at 4:20 AM Rating: Decent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
KarlHungis Delivers on Time wrote:
Only terrible warlocks use a voidwalker for leveling. What you should actually do is summon your pet of choice, put it on defensive and tank the damage yourself as you chain kill every thing in range. :D

Eh, perhaps things have changed. I haven't played WoW in years, but I remember rolling around areas with 6-10 mobs on me at all times. I pretty much only stopped to loot corpses and never really had any downtime that way so I wouldn't consider it terrible.


My point (which I expressed poorly) is that you'd have still killed faster with a different pet.

The VW doesn't hold threat very well, and never really has, and it goes out of mana very quickly. It's only really useful to tank certain elites, and even then you've got to be very careful not to pull aggro from him with just health funnel and DoTs.

These days of course it hardly even matters, since the ratio of XP you get from killing stuff keeps going down compared to the ratio you receive for doing quests. The idea of actually "grinding" to gain levels is inefficient unless you can find a perfect spot for it (in which case it will be nerfed instantly).
#114 Nov 06 2010 at 12:18 AM Rating: Decent
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KarlHungis wrote:
My point (which I expressed poorly) is that you'd have still killed faster with a different pet.

I agree that it's less efficient my way, but I was only using this example as a comparison to FFXIV. All of the elements of battle mentioned in the post I responded to are found in WoW as well. Just depends on what you're doing at the time.
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#115 Nov 06 2010 at 1:55 AM Rating: Default
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588 posts
Last I heard the M in RAM stoom for Memory as in Random Access Memory.

and Storage ie Bytes on a BlueRay HDD didnt use the term Memory in any way shape or form thus this is obvious already and didnt really need your explaining rofl...

They didnt release it on the PS3 because the game is so incomplete hard to play and repetitive that no one would have wanted to play it. They knew about the Memory constraints since day one its not like Sony waited till OCtober to tell them. "Oh hey guys BTW PS3 only ahs 512MB of RAM.."

Game developers get Console DEV KITS and Sample Consoles months/years before Official said Console launch, So SE had at least a year to make it work on PS3.

TheRealLusent wrote:
Quote:
The PlayStation 3 version of MMO Final Fantasy XIV was delayed due to “memory” issues, producer Hiromichi Tanaka told VG247.

Speaking to us at gamescom last week, the developer explained for the first time why the PS3 version was held back into March next year.

“The main reason was the memory,” said Tanaka via his translator.

“On the PC, they have enormous memory. For PS3, there’s a restriction.

“They are adjusting the memory size and customising it; it took longer then we were expecting. But we’re really working hard to bring it out as soon as possible.”

When asked if this was a memory issue with either the Blu-ray or HDD, Tanaka just said in English: “Memory.”

In hindsight, he was probably referring to RAM issues
http://www.vg247.com/2010/08/24/ffxiv-ps3-delay-down-to-memory-says-square-enix/


I dont know, this info does not help the ps3 become a larger back bone system. Other reports already say the game will be dumbed down and run on a lower resolutions.



Edited, Nov 6th 2010 3:57am by cornyboob
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#116 Nov 06 2010 at 2:55 AM Rating: Good
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TheRealLusent wrote:
being that there is only one free month left dont you mean what happens this month?



Alot of people have and probably will cancel their accounts, but this does not mean they quit the game. I am one of these, I see a game full of potential, full of life and the ability to suck me in until I sit up all night realizing i have to be at work in an hour and laughing about it. This game has the potential to make me call in sick once in a awhile, once SE fixes it. So we sit and we wait and will watch the patches, discern that actual facts from the negatively Biased to the super fanboys. IN the end SE should know the people they are trying to impress the most are the ones sitting out here waiting for it be better in there.

Also outstanding article thank you for sharing
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KitsurubamiSouzahara wrote:
This is all just a fanboy civil war. Some are hurt that SE gave them such a crap game, the others are hurt that anyone would call it crap.
#117 Nov 06 2010 at 3:29 AM Rating: Decent
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164 posts

http://www.rpgamer.com/news/Q2-2010/061810a.html

That's from 5 months ago. I think it's gonna take them at least another 6 months to fix the game.
#118 Nov 06 2010 at 1:24 PM Rating: Good
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1,050 posts
Olorinus the Vile wrote:
Kachi wrote:
If you find them challenging, then maybe-- and I earnestly do not mean to be insulting-- you really just aren't very good at video games. If that's the case, then there's nothing wrong with that.


I'm certainly not fantastic at video-games - but I did find this insulting. It's like people who craft and just hit standard over and over again with no other tactic and then either say it is broken or boring.

If you actually put some effort in it is actually challenging. Aiming to HQ is challenging. The same goes for battle. You can just button-mash to defeat dodos, or you can actually work on stunning them, getting behind them, avoiding their AOE. You will probably win either way - but I find playing well to be much more satisfying than just grinding my face off.

So no, it isn't challenging if you don't actually put any effort in. But I know that the work I do today on easier prey will make me a better player on tougher targets, and TBH I have already seen it pay off.


Deliberatly making something harder for yourself != challenging.
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#119 Nov 06 2010 at 1:57 PM Rating: Good
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1,636 posts
TheAvondahl wrote:
I don't understand the stance that I see so many people take. How could any purposed fix happen "too late?" Regardless of when the fix comes, each of us has already purchased the game. We own it. For ever. If they fix the game in two years from now as a worst case scenario. Will you refuse to play it out of spite? Will you honestly waste your money?


The issue is people moving on. I bought this game to play it in 2009 when I know I have a lax school schedule. I don't know what I'll be doing in 2 years. For me, whats most likely to happen is I'm much more likely to buy SW:TOR. I was going to be buying GW2 anyways, because its free once you've bought the box/account, and I really can't see myself going back to a game that's already disappointed me once unless those 2 both bomb even worse, and nothing else has caught my eye.
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