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#52 Nov 04 2010 at 12:49 PM Rating: Good
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I pity the people who are so desperate for a short thrill that they'll endure hours of gamework just to get it.

I hated open world NM as a means of character progression. I was motivated to do it as a matter of completionism and compulsion-- like an addict, really; however, years later in retrospect I realized that camping NMs wasn't fun itself-- I was just expecting it to lead to more fun. I was sitting there, basically suffering, but anticipating the rush. That's the thing that concerns me about players who, like myself, are inclined to set very high goals and overcome even the most ridiculous obstacles to achieve them. Because they are just going to be strung along by carrot after carrot, only to find at the end that the game as a whole was not a rewarding experience.

And these were the kinds of players who played XI, and will probably be the kind that play XIV. They won't be casuals. They might be people without a lot of playtime, but they won't just be logging in for a pleasant experience.

In psychology, we refer to two distinct kinds of motivation: extrinsic and intrinsic. These aren't to be confused with external and internal rewards. If something is intrinsically motivating, then you simply enjoy doing it for its own sake. Period. If something is extrinsically motivating, you're doing it to get something that you'll enjoy later. Work is extrinsically motivated for most people, but leisure activities have aspects of extrinsic motivation as well.

My point is that successful leisure time is all about optimizing intrinsic motivation-- feeling good. And if grinding and camping NMs seem like a good way to produce those feelings for you, it's probably time to seriously reevaluate your leisure options.

Quote:
Now I know they addressed this later on in the game with the expansions, but to say camping things was fun is looking at it with rose-colored glasses.


This was also a good point-- humans have a strong tendency to remember the past more favorably than it actually was. I forget what the phenomenon is called (colloquially it's nostalgia bias), but as time goes on we trick ourselves into thinking that "those were better days."

Edited, Nov 4th 2010 11:55am by Kachi
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#53 Nov 04 2010 at 12:57 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
The reward isn't thrilling if the chances of success are high.
This is partly true but the problem many people perceive is that the chance of success is based solely on a random number generator. If it were based on a legitimate challenge, like defeating a good player in a game of chess or shooting a moving target at distance, most people wouldn't complain.

Quote:
Like a lot of other people, you[OMGItsABear] seem to be confusing NM drops with items that are necessary to have.
This is quite true. The problem is that right now there isn't a lot of other stuff to do.

On top of the issue with drop/spawn rates, killing NMs can be a lot of fun. They have the most interesting designs and often offer up the greatest challenge in the game. A friend and I used to duo Capricious Cassie, Bune, Friar Rush, etc. for fun but that stuff becomes a lot less interesting when you have the same group of RMT trying to MPK you every day or when there are 100 people camping the same thing at the same time, as there are bound to be in December.
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#54 Nov 04 2010 at 1:04 PM Rating: Good
It does kick our retainers so we have to put them on back again.
#55 Nov 04 2010 at 1:11 PM Rating: Decent
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Maintenance:
–noun
1.the act of maintaining.

Maintaining:
–verb (used with object)
1.to keep in existence or continuance; preserve.
2.to keep in an appropriate condition, operation, or force.
3.to keep in a specified state, position, etc.
4.to provide for the upkeep or support of.
5.to sustain or support.

There is a big difference between maintenance and update. What people really needs to understand is that being under maintenance doesn't mean they are gonna patch or put something new... that it's just an assumption. It's like in a car, when you are gonna take the road, you can make a maintenance just to be sure its working, but that doesn't mean you are gonna change to new tires unless it needs to.

So assuming that maintenance = patch, there is where the problem lies. Unless you see a message saying "there will be an update to the game", then don't expect to have something new every maintenance. Specially since maybe the maintenance was for running an in-game application test (being a programmer, I do this a lot), to see if x or y thing will work (cause if works in a programmer computer, doesn't mean it will work right in the server), or even just to add a serve, or clean from dust, could be everything.
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#56 Nov 04 2010 at 1:14 PM Rating: Good
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For all of the people dissing NMs, perhaps you never had the luxury of fighting some of the ones I did?

For instance, soloing charybdis on thf to get the sword for my war. That was one of the most exhilirating battles I've ever fought. There were at least 5 times where I thought I was a goner and got really lucky w/ my evasion gear. Or how about the random soloing of Aquarius on thf. No, not difficult. But really fun to survive his perma-hundred fists. Or the first time fighting Odqan as a 61 thf/rng and getting him down to 10% only for him to blow up a third time and kill me... I'd have my revenge.

****, I could give you a list of probably 50 more stories just like that from NM's in ffxi. If you don't like that, that's fine. You can go do whatever it is that makes you have fun in game. However, please don't discount something that I really enjoy doing simply because it doesn't work for you. It's extremely narrow-minded and rude.

Edited, Nov 4th 2010 3:21pm by BartelX
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#57 Nov 04 2010 at 1:21 PM Rating: Good
37 posts
RdeLeo wrote:
Maintenance:
–noun
1.the act of maintaining.

Maintaining:
–verb (used with object)
1.to keep in existence or continuance; preserve.
2.to keep in an appropriate condition, operation, or force.
3.to keep in a specified state, position, etc.
4.to provide for the upkeep or support of.
5.to sustain or support.

There is a big difference between maintenance and update. What people really needs to understand is that being under maintenance doesn't mean they are gonna patch or put something new... that it's just an assumption. It's like in a car, when you are gonna take the road, you can make a maintenance just to be sure its working, but that doesn't mean you are gonna change to new tires unless it needs to.

So assuming that maintenance = patch, there is where the problem lies. Unless you see a message saying "there will be an update to the game", then don't expect to have something new every maintenance. Specially since maybe the maintenance was for running an in-game application test (being a programmer, I do this a lot), to see if x or y thing will work (cause if works in a programmer computer, doesn't mean it will work right in the server), or even just to add a serve, or clean from dust, could be everything.


SE is known for their ninja fixes during maintenance outages. So asking if anything changed during maintenance is not something that's necessarily a stretch.


Edited, Nov 4th 2010 3:22pm by Thundernova
#58 Nov 04 2010 at 1:50 PM Rating: Good
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For all we know they could have taken the server down and tested out the "Patch" on the server. They wouldn't ever tell us they did that because if a "bug" came across, they'd have everyone worried and PO'd it's not coming out next week. Typically if someone is silient about what they are doing, they don't want a public uproar. Maybe if things went well in this scenario, we'd get the patch mid/late(18th) and not the 25th.

Maybe they did some cleanup work?
Maybe they implemented higher respawn rates on the servers?
Maybe they did routine server updates?

Seriously, don't tackle the bull by the horns. Hold the red up high & wait for the bull to come to you.
#59 Nov 04 2010 at 2:53 PM Rating: Good
7 posts
BartelX wrote:
For all of the people dissing NMs, perhaps you never had the luxury of fighting some of the ones I did?

For instance, soloing charybdis on thf to get the sword for my war. That was one of the most exhilirating battles I've ever fought. There were at least 5 times where I thought I was a goner and got really lucky w/ my evasion gear. Or how about the random soloing of Aquarius on thf. No, not difficult. But really fun to survive his perma-hundred fists. Or the first time fighting Odqan as a 61 thf/rng and getting him down to 10% only for him to blow up a third time and kill me... I'd have my revenge.

****, I could give you a list of probably 50 more stories just like that from NM's in ffxi. If you don't like that, that's fine. You can go do whatever it is that makes you have fun in game. However, please don't discount something that I really enjoy doing simply because it doesn't work for you. It's extremely narrow-minded and rude.

Edited, Nov 4th 2010 3:21pm by BartelX


First: Highlighted the key word in your post.

Second: Fighting and camping nm's is two different things. I agree with your post about fighting some of the awesome nm's in FFXI. Camping them is a whole different story.. There are some nm's that I wanted to shoot my brains out while camping.

Charybdis
-The possible re-spawn time opens at 8-12 hours after last kill. It has roughly a 5-10% chance to spawn in place of its placeholder after this time but it will vary. There is no maximum time on window, but as long as the placeholder is killed it will generally spawn before 16 hours has passed from the Time of Death.

Aquarius
-Lottery Spawn from the Robber Crabs around (H-9) on the first map approximately every 2 to 6 hours
Keep in mind there was a ******** of competition on this one at first for the Axe.

Odqan
-Odqan is NOT a 100% pop on foggy weather. Fog weather is extremely random taking from 1 game day up to and over 10 game days. Foggy weather cannot occur if there is other weather occurring (i.e. thunder/wind/dark icons indicating weather). Foggy weather occurs generally from 1am to 7am game time. Respawn time seems to be roughly 2-5 hours from last death.

Now if you ran by and found the nm and fought it, I agree that it would probably be fun as **** especially if its something new you haven't fought. But to sit through those ridiculous windows...against other campers...with ****** drop rates on some of them... can't possibly see how even the most hardcore nm campers had "fun" doing that... not to mention I was only listing the nm's you mentioned... I won't even get to retarded **** like Argus, Eastern Shadow, that one nm Goblin in Gustav for the Obow.
#60 Nov 04 2010 at 2:59 PM Rating: Good
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Its kinda funny how some say they are bored and others are upset about the 2hrs that they didnt get to play the game they are tired or bored with?

Patience patience and more patience guys. I know its not what we all wanted but honestly do you think that after Nov and Dec patches that all will be pleased?

There will still be those that cry foul and that SE didnt do enough. I dont think the game will fail. Eventually it will be what we all wanted, however will you still be here when it happens?

Patience and hugs to all of my FFXIV brothers and sisters.
#61 Nov 04 2010 at 3:05 PM Rating: Good
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leomike35 wrote:
Its kinda funny how some say they are bored and others are upset about the 2hrs that they didnt get to play the game they are tired or bored with?

Patience patience and more patience guys. I know its not what we all wanted but honestly do you think that after Nov and Dec patches that all will be pleased?

There will still be those that cry foul and that SE didnt do enough. I dont think the game will fail. Eventually it will be what we all wanted, however will you still be here when it happens?

Patience and hugs to all of my FFXIV brothers and sisters.



Word. People need to drop the hate, try to relax, and have some patience. It is just a game

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#62 Nov 04 2010 at 3:21 PM Rating: Good
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It is just a game. Which is why there's no point in playing it while patiently waiting for it to get better. That's why I quit and am patiently observing to see whether it flourishes or flounders.
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#63 Nov 04 2010 at 3:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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116 posts
BartelX wrote:
For all of the people dissing NMs, perhaps you never had the luxury of fighting some of the ones I did?

For instance, soloing charybdis on thf to get the sword for my war. That was one of the most exhilirating battles I've ever fought. There were at least 5 times where I thought I was a goner and got really lucky w/ my evasion gear. Or how about the random soloing of Aquarius on thf. No, not difficult. But really fun to survive his perma-hundred fists. Or the first time fighting Odqan as a 61 thf/rng and getting him down to 10% only for him to blow up a third time and kill me... I'd have my revenge.

****, I could give you a list of probably 50 more stories just like that from NM's in ffxi. If you don't like that, that's fine. You can go do whatever it is that makes you have fun in game. However, please don't discount something that I really enjoy doing simply because it doesn't work for you. It's extremely narrow-minded and rude.

Edited, Nov 4th 2010 3:21pm by BartelX


Excellent post. I couldn't agree more.

NMs, for me, were the best part of FFXI. Beating Jormy, Tiamat, Nidhogg, etc. was an absolute thrill. What is the point if everything is easy and your equipment is essentially handed to you? It completely defeats the purpose.
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#64 Nov 04 2010 at 3:27 PM Rating: Decent
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Thundernova wrote:
RdeLeo wrote:
Maintenance:
–noun
1.the act of maintaining.

Maintaining:
–verb (used with object)
1.to keep in existence or continuance; preserve.
2.to keep in an appropriate condition, operation, or force.
3.to keep in a specified state, position, etc.
4.to provide for the upkeep or support of.
5.to sustain or support.

There is a big difference between maintenance and update. What people really needs to understand is that being under maintenance doesn't mean they are gonna patch or put something new... that it's just an assumption. It's like in a car, when you are gonna take the road, you can make a maintenance just to be sure its working, but that doesn't mean you are gonna change to new tires unless it needs to.

So assuming that maintenance = patch, there is where the problem lies. Unless you see a message saying "there will be an update to the game", then don't expect to have something new every maintenance. Specially since maybe the maintenance was for running an in-game application test (being a programmer, I do this a lot), to see if x or y thing will work (cause if works in a programmer computer, doesn't mean it will work right in the server), or even just to add a serve, or clean from dust, could be everything.


SE is known for their ninja fixes during maintenance outages. So asking if anything changed during maintenance is not something that's necessarily a stretch.


Edited, Nov 4th 2010 3:22pm by Thundernova


There's a difference between asking if something was fixed and whining because there wasn't a patch.
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#65 Nov 04 2010 at 3:34 PM Rating: Good
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All I know is how many people would rage quit XI and be back 2-3 months later after a new patch or new content is released lol . .. . Its usually the way of things in ffland

as long as nov/dec updates are enough to improve usage of the game and add some extra content and new recipes I'm happy. I played XI up until this release and I want to watch this world evolve.

It'll be around for a while, I want to get as high rank as possible to be able to start fighting these. And there will be levequest nm's there to.

I'm a patient person and excited to see how this game grows. Its like a baby child a new born lol that's my way to rationalize my insanity :P
#66 Nov 04 2010 at 3:38 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:

NMs, for me, were the best part of FFXI. Beating Jormy, Tiamat, Nidhogg, etc. was an absolute thrill. What is the point if everything is easy and your equipment is essentially handed to you? It completely defeats the purpose.


Everybody likes NMs. It's open-world NMs that rub a lot of people the wrong way. If the NM itself is challenging, that's fantastic. If the NM is hard to claim because of rare spawn conditions, high competition, and low drop rates, then that's bad. It means that we have to do a lot of boring stuff to even GET to fight the NM.
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#67 Nov 04 2010 at 3:42 PM Rating: Decent
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Kachi wrote:
Quote:

NMs, for me, were the best part of FFXI. Beating Jormy, Tiamat, Nidhogg, etc. was an absolute thrill. What is the point if everything is easy and your equipment is essentially handed to you? It completely defeats the purpose.


Everybody likes NMs. It's open-world NMs that rub a lot of people the wrong way. If the NM itself is challenging, that's fantastic. If the NM is hard to claim because of rare spawn conditions, high competition, and low drop rates, then that's bad. It means that we have to do a lot of boring stuff to even GET to fight the NM.


That's the thing. I actually like open-world NMs. I enjoy the competition. I find it extremely satisfying to outclaim someone. It can certainly be frustrating, but that eventually makes it more rewarding.
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#68 Nov 04 2010 at 3:44 PM Rating: Good
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Clydey2Times wrote:
Kachi wrote:
Quote:

NMs, for me, were the best part of FFXI. Beating Jormy, Tiamat, Nidhogg, etc. was an absolute thrill. What is the point if everything is easy and your equipment is essentially handed to you? It completely defeats the purpose.


Everybody likes NMs. It's open-world NMs that rub a lot of people the wrong way. If the NM itself is challenging, that's fantastic. If the NM is hard to claim because of rare spawn conditions, high competition, and low drop rates, then that's bad. It means that we have to do a lot of boring stuff to even GET to fight the NM.


That's the thing. I actually like open-world NMs. I enjoy the competition. I find it extremely satisfying to outclaim someone. It can certainly be frustrating, but that eventually makes it more rewarding.


Getting out of jail feels very rewarding...doesn't mean I want to be in there in the first place.
#69 Nov 04 2010 at 3:48 PM Rating: Default
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OMGItsABear wrote:

Getting out of jail feels very rewarding...doesn't mean I want to be in there in the first place.


Right, because that's a sound analogy.
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#70 Nov 04 2010 at 3:56 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
That's the thing. I actually like open-world NMs. I enjoy the competition. I find it extremely satisfying to outclaim someone. It can certainly be frustrating, but that eventually makes it more rewarding.


Oh I know some people do. I've had this discussion at least a dozen times. Let me just go ahead and summarize the course of the argument.

"That's fine if there are open world NMs for those people. I just want an alternative that allows me to do the same fight and get the same drops without having to put up with that crap."

Some people are ok with that. Some aren't, and they argue, "But then no one will camp the open world NMs if they don't have to!" or, "They shouldn't get the same rewards for not doing the work."

Aaaand that's where it breaks down. Generally the people who -say- they enjoy camping NMs also find that whether or not they enjoy it depends on the fact that they're getting things that other people aren't. Meanwhile, other people don't want to be penalized by having content restricted because they're not as masochistic as others and they DON'T enjoy it.
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#71 Nov 04 2010 at 3:57 PM Rating: Decent
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437 posts
Clydey2Times wrote:
OMGItsABear wrote:

Getting out of jail feels very rewarding...doesn't mean I want to be in there in the first place.


Right, because that's a sound analogy.

Haha, sorry I couldn't help myself.
#72 Nov 04 2010 at 4:00 PM Rating: Default
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Clydey2Times wrote:
Christ, stop your moaning. They never claimed that they were going to patch the game today. That was your assumption. They have announced the changes they will be making and when they will be making them. What more do you want at this stage? It seems like people are looking for any excuse to whine.


This.

Yesterday I went on the thread about what questions you would personally ask the devs. Trying to be helpful, I tried to answer a few questions with suggestions for answers. And some questions, I put up a solution and asked the community to try some things out to get to the answer.

Despite trying to be helpful, I was rated down to such an extent that I lost my scholar status and can no longer rate posts.

This does not matter to me - but it does show that any attempt at helping people that might invalidate their complaints is met with immediate rate downs. People dont want the answer to the questions they are raising - they just want to complain.

I am done with ZAm for now until the haters have left and the people left are the ones that genuinely want to talk sensibly about the game, its faults and how to make it better. When people are willing to accept that maybe the reason something seems broke is because they haven't worked out how to do it yet - and then try out other peoples solutions, perhaps less people will hate the game.

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#73 Nov 04 2010 at 4:26 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
For all of the people dissing NMs, perhaps you never had the luxury of fighting some of the ones I did?

For instance, soloing charybdis on thf to get the sword for my war. That was one of the most exhilirating battles I've ever fought. There were at least 5 times where I thought I was a goner and got really lucky w/ my evasion gear. Or how about the random soloing of Aquarius on thf. No, not difficult. But really fun to survive his perma-hundred fists. Or the first time fighting Odqan as a 61 thf/rng and getting him down to 10% only for him to blow up a third time and kill me... I'd have my revenge.

****, I could give you a list of probably 50 more stories just like that from NM's in ffxi. If you don't like that, that's fine. You can go do whatever it is that makes you have fun in game. However, please don't discount something that I really enjoy doing simply because it doesn't work for you. It's extremely narrow-minded and rude.


You must be reading every post criticizing NMs wrong because no one said fighting them wasn't fun. We are disappointed because SE chose to throw up an artificial barrier to experiencing some of the most enjoyable content in the game.

Additionally, it's not rude to express our opinions on what we believe to be outdated game design. We are just as entitled to criticize as you are to compliment. Rude would be calling you names for sitting in SSG waiting for Chary to spawn. No one did that, instead you called several people who had well written posts narrow-minded.

It's surprising to see people defending world spawn NMs as 2011 rapidly approaches though. They're such an amazingly obvious time sink and an excuse for developers to not put in more content by stringing you along forever on the old stuff. It's hard to believe people get more satisfaction from simply claiming a mob than completing a fight in which the challenge lies in execution, not just showing up at the right place at the right time.

World spawn NMs actually reduce the incentive to kill hard stuff, because if you should die, someone else can steal your kill.
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#74 Nov 04 2010 at 4:41 PM Rating: Default
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CatPredator wrote:


It's surprising to see people defending world spawn NMs as 2011 rapidly approaches though. They're such an amazingly obvious time sink and an excuse for developers to not put in more content by stringing you along forever on the old stuff. It's hard to believe people get more satisfaction from simply claiming a mob than completing a fight in which the challenge lies in execution, not just showing up at the right place at the right time.

World spawn NMs actually reduce the incentive to kill hard stuff, because if you should die, someone else can steal your kill.


I don't understand people complaining about world spawn NMs when SE has made it clear NMs will also be available via leve. Some people enjoy the thrill of the claim. If you don't - you don't have to hunt them. Why is it some people want to block all content that they personally don't enjoy? Stop being such a killjoy.

If you don't want to hunt world spawn NMs - then hunt guildleve NMs. Simple. You get your fun and the people who hunt them get their fun. What are you complaining about?
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When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#75 Nov 04 2010 at 4:43 PM Rating: Default
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Kachi wrote:
Quote:
That's the thing. I actually like open-world NMs. I enjoy the competition. I find it extremely satisfying to outclaim someone. It can certainly be frustrating, but that eventually makes it more rewarding.


Oh I know some people do. I've had this discussion at least a dozen times. Let me just go ahead and summarize the course of the argument.

"That's fine if there are open world NMs for those people. I just want an alternative that allows me to do the same fight and get the same drops without having to put up with that crap."


SE has already stated that this will be in game - and since you don't play this easy/boring game - what do you care anyway?
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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#76 Nov 04 2010 at 5:01 PM Rating: Default
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116 posts
BartelX wrote:
For all of the people dissing NMs, perhaps you never had the luxury of fighting some of the ones I did?

For instance, soloing charybdis on thf to get the sword for my war. That was one of the most exhilirating battles I've ever fought. There were at least 5 times where I thought I was a goner and got really lucky w/ my evasion gear. Or how about the random soloing of Aquarius on thf. No, not difficult. But really fun to survive his perma-hundred fists. Or the first time fighting Odqan as a 61 thf/rng and getting him down to 10% only for him to blow up a third time and kill me... I'd have my revenge.

****, I could give you a list of probably 50 more stories just like that from NM's in ffxi. If you don't like that, that's fine. You can go do whatever it is that makes you have fun in game. However, please don't discount something that I really enjoy doing simply because it doesn't work for you. It's extremely narrow-minded and rude.

Edited, Nov 4th 2010 3:21pm by BartelX


i love people that ******** like this. LOL rude? really? i can probably go through every single reference or medium that refers to the word "rude" and im pretty darn sure no one other than you will relate someone saying that they dont find camping nms fun, as "rude"

off your high horse bud, if you find him calling that unfun rude.. you have serious serious issues lol.

spiting on someones shoes, rude. closing the door in someones face, rude. chewing with your mouth open, rude. not liking that i like to camp nm's ru... er wait..
#77Aurelius, Posted: Nov 04 2010 at 5:18 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) It's always going to be like this. It's the XI boards all over again and god knows you don't challenge the opinions of the whiners over there if you value your karma. They've had 6 years learning how to nurture their hatred for SE and ***** about anything/everything and they're not about to stop now.
#78 Nov 04 2010 at 5:19 PM Rating: Decent
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BartelX wrote:

I hate to sound rude but, good for you. I will play the game how I want, you can play how you want. For me, I enjoy being able to play it casually at times and be doing other things in the meantime. I also enjoy focusing myself solely on a task in-game when I'm interested in something.

I do love how you are speaking for "the rest of us" though. Clearly you must be aware of some telepathy that I am not?


My point was that you aren't actually playing the game while AFK waiting for a specific set of conditions to occur: ie. a spawn window. Adding some open world NMs similar to what we had in FFXI can hardly be considered adding engaging content. I see that you got rather upset over my comment, but you couldn't refute the fact that AFK while waiting for something isn't technically "playing the game".
#79 Nov 04 2010 at 5:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Most surprising bit about this thread is the number of responses from people who actually liked camping NMs. I mean...I did it because I needed to. But **** - I HATED it. I've now learned that there is a population of the FFXI playerbase that did that and thought it was fun.

Who'da thunk it?

-Kash
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#80 Nov 04 2010 at 5:33 PM Rating: Default
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You people just can't be made ******* happy can you?

A lot of the things people complained about ffxi for, they changed...you know what you guys are doing? ******* complaining that it's not like ffxi.

People don't want a grindfest? Those people lined up outside to get the new WoW expansion don't seem to think so.

Seriously, you people need to ******* grow the **** up.
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#81 Nov 04 2010 at 5:40 PM Rating: Good
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Honestly for those of us still holding out hope for the "big November patch...I think we are just setting ourselves up for further disappointment. Take the list of what's wrong with this game and match it up to what is allegedly happening it November. It's simply not going to be enough to turn things around. Even with this game tanking in front of their eyes and their brand name slowly getting destroyed, it seems that they are still operating without a sense of urgency. Simple hot fixes that require no more than adjusting a single numerical value are taking months to release. This game was launched at least 6 months prematurely and I think due to this fact it will never have the amount of success that it could or should have had. I've never been so disappointed with a game. My anticipation of this games potential was the sky, but maybe I need to accept the fact that there will never be another game as great as FFXI.
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#82 Nov 04 2010 at 5:47 PM Rating: Default
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windexy wrote:
This was not a client update there is nothing to let you know. If you notice on lodestone server maintenance do not result in update notes while client updates do.

I'm curious as to what you would do with information like:

"Changed unsigned to signed variable in order to prevent memory corruption reported in node 05 server 06, node 8 server 09, node 15 server 02."

"updated tables x,y,z for keys on tables d,e,f,g; updated view X1, in preparation of feature addition Y"

Edited, Nov 4th 2010 10:17am by windexy


OP owned!
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#83 Nov 04 2010 at 7:49 PM Rating: Decent
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I have no problem with open-world NMs dropping items that do not have great stat benefits but maybe have some unique appearance so that it can be worn as a trophy type of item. There are many examples of this in FFXI.

No one fights them for the challenge of the fight. ****, if that's all you want then just go fight any mob a couple of levels higher than you.

#84 Nov 04 2010 at 9:35 PM Rating: Default
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Torrence wrote:
BartelX wrote:

I hate to sound rude but, good for you. I will play the game how I want, you can play how you want. For me, I enjoy being able to play it casually at times and be doing other things in the meantime. I also enjoy focusing myself solely on a task in-game when I'm interested in something.

I do love how you are speaking for "the rest of us" though. Clearly you must be aware of some telepathy that I am not?


My point was that you aren't actually playing the game while AFK waiting for a specific set of conditions to occur: ie. a spawn window. Adding some open world NMs similar to what we had in FFXI can hardly be considered adding engaging content. I see that you got rather upset over my comment, but you couldn't refute the fact that AFK while waiting for something isn't technically "playing the game".


So, basically you were posting to point out the obvious... that afk people aren't actually playing? I realize that while I'm working in another window that I'm not playing the game. That has absolutely nothing to do with the NM's. As I pointed out, I like camping NM's because of the pacing. I can go at it casually and multi-task. Sometimes I would also just sit and chat with my LS while camping, which I liked to do. And then there were the battles themselves, which were also fun. I've now stated 3 different reasons I liked NM's. To me, it is engaging content. Once again you make an assumption about something and couldn't be more wrong.

I know a heck of a lot of people that think very similarly to myself about NM's. Heck, I'm playing ffxiv with a bunch of them. So it's not like I'm the only one. Anyways, I'm sorry I can't refute your common sense argument that being afk isn't playing the game. I'm pretty sure even the 12 year olds playing the game know that...

MithSavvy wrote:
No one fights them for the challenge of the fight.


I did in ffxi, and I will in ffxiv (if I'm still playing when they come out). I just don't get why everyone makes these vapid generalizations like they know what everyone is thinking...

Edited, Nov 4th 2010 11:38pm by BartelX
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#85 Nov 04 2010 at 10:47 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:

SE has already stated that this will be in game - and since you don't play this easy/boring game - what do you care anyway?


I'm going to ignore your trolling me and just respond with two brief statements:
1) SE says a lot of things, then either doesn't do them, or does them in a disappointing way. I certainly hope they DO implement it sooner or later, because I want to like this game. Optimism is low, though.

2) I enjoy talking about game design and conversing on this forum. It actually doesn't matter to me that I don't like FFXIV, because I like posting here.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#86 Nov 04 2010 at 10:57 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I did in ffxi, and I will in ffxiv (if I'm still playing when they come out). I just don't get why everyone makes these vapid generalizations like they know what everyone is thinking...


I think he has a good point though-- very few people fought NMs for the challenge. For the longest time end game content like sky and land, including many other NMs, were simple to kill once you actually claimed them. A lot of this was because people didn't WANT a challenge knowing that the drop rates were low and they couldn't afford to lose to another camper/group.

But it was alleviated to some extent by the team-oriented nature of FFXI, because you could look forward to battles that others needed.

People would have been more willing to fight NMs for the challenge if there weren't so many risks to losing. Nevermind that some battles were exhausting due to the horrendous drop rates. It's hard to stop and enjoy a battle with a monster for fun when you have a huge laundry list of things to get done just for character progression.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#87 Nov 04 2010 at 11:12 PM Rating: Good
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Clydey2Times wrote:
Christ, stop your moaning. They never claimed that they were going to patch the game today. That was your assumption. They have announced the changes they will be making and when they will be making them. What more do you want at this stage? It seems like people are looking for any excuse to whine.


No, but apparently people like you look for any reason to complain about people unhappy with incomplete services (even by MMO standards).
#88 Nov 05 2010 at 1:11 AM Rating: Default
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StrijderVechter wrote:

No, but apparently people like you look for any reason to complain about people unhappy with incomplete services (even by MMO standards).


I have no problem with people making legitimate complaints. What I do have a problem with is someone complaining about the absence of a patch that SE never promised to provide.

And as far as the legitimate complaints go, I think we get the picture. Got a fresh complaint? Fantastic. Make people aware of it. Complaining about the same thing over and over and over? Please, give it a rest. The forum is cluttered enough as it is. The last thing it needs is another 'Goodbye, Cruel World' thread.
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#89 Nov 05 2010 at 1:40 AM Rating: Default
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Ok, the things I noticed after yesterday's maintenance:

1. When you equip something and get the Gear Damage msg and icon, if you unequip the damaged piece, the icon stays until you repair it. Found this by having nothing but my underwear and weaver tool, all at 100% durability but the icon was still there, so repaired the piece (was still in my inventory) and the icon was removed after repair.

2. Seems that no antligs now in the pass from central to east thanalan (the pass to camp drybone). All that was there now was a lot of star marmots.

I play in Cornelia, so not sure if its the same in all servers.
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