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SE and the futureFollow

#1 Nov 04 2010 at 1:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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I think there's now a lot of us who grew up with the series and are now late 20s or early 30s. We've been here for the ride and have seen the best bits.

We're the ones who saw SE grow, who played all the games, got the T shirt, thought about naming our kids cloud, can still recite some of the lines from ff8 and still wonder why FFX-2 was kinda good in its own way. We spent too many late nights awake in FF11, partying in Dynamis, died many times, and well, just kept at it again and again (and hid our geekery with alot of friends, family and workmates!!).

It's us now though who don't have the time any more, but have been dedicated fans for years. We've got kids, jobs, all sorts of stuff that'll stop us playing if 14 isn't bang on the money. I know a lot of people who feel this way, but back in aplha we were saying '***** it, I'll play 14 because I don't want grow up, need some escapism in my busy life and hey, I'll love it anyway, it's final fantasy. We were also maybe the target audience of the 'casual gamer' refs in all the interviews. Maybe not, but we fit the bill.

Arguments go on, but I felt with FF13, SE lost its way. However at that time I didn't care because 11 was still fun and 14's development was all over the forums. I thought 13, however flawed with its linear style, was just a change in direction to see what the ps3 could do. It was ok, but something wasn't quite right.

I kept thinking they'd learn so much from 11 and 13 that 14 would be amazing. I Genuinely believed all the hype, I bought into the press conferences, I told everyone I could about this great game on the horizon. I did it because I have history here, I have memories, I have something that was kinda mine.

Now 14 is out we can see what's happening, what it's done to SE and done to many loyal fans - things are not good. The reviews are poor, the game hasn't sold well and the forums are rife with Flame. I've been fighting SE's corner but something has hit me this last few days.

The whole way the game was released just 'disappointed' so many of us. I wasn't angry that I'd spent so much doing my PC up, it needed it anyway. I'm not bothered I spent £50 on a game basically still in beta, I wanted the fancy box and the collectors bits. I really don't care that much about the auction house and surplus, they'll probably sort it eventually.

I'm just honestly really sad by how SE hasn't developed things into the future like they should have, they haven't leaped forward. They've almost gone backwards and haven't really learn anything. They haven't listened to us.

To me, a once dedicated and almost obsessive fan of the series, they've screwed it so far they won't get a lot of us back. And before you say 'hey, hang on a sec!!', I know - It's great still for many players. That's cool, really cool. I'm happy some people say they love it, the game needs that.

However, honestly, even for those that play still, it's a let down, admit it. It just is.

Now, think of the innovative games that are coming out soon and the way the on-line world has evolved. Think of Black Ops out this month and its multiplayer options, incredible graphics engine.... its swagger. See what Dragon age did for the Role paying genre last year. Think of little big planet, flower and Heavy Rain on the PS3 in 08 and 09, changing the way we interact with games for good. They were was so 'different'. With MMOS in particular, I hate to admit it but think of cataclysm out soon. It's an old MMO, loads of us hate it, but they really do know how to do things well for their target audience, they get their players.

All these guys are pushing boundaries, bringing new stuff to the table. They are taking the best of the old ways and revamping, polishing and innovating. They are fresh air and we could think of examples all day - most I hasten to ad with better graphics that won't kill your PC.

I think I have just lost faith that SE know what they're doing. I don't think they will regain our trust for a while yet if at all. They lost it about 2 years ago, but we've just been hanging on really, hoping it'd be OK.

I believe that it'd take a huge leap in 2 or 3 BIG patches to sort out the game's problems. If I'm wrong, superb. I'll eat my words, my hat, my arms. Bring it on. I'd love to see things change by xmas, even by March.

It's just not going to happen though, because if SE knew what they were doing there is no way they would have released 14 in October. Can you imagine what that's done - a flagship title, THE best game they have for the next 2-3 years, and they fudged it. Would Bioware, Blizzard or Bethesda have done it? I doubt it.

At least with Gran Turismo 5 polyphony has the balls to stall it and stall again, because if it isn't perfect it can bring the house down. They know that.

I'll leave it at that. I'm gutted, disappointed, and probably won't be playing again until the patches are done. Even then, well....

I've read this forum since it's been up, never posted much. Sorry If you disagree with me, I'm not looking for arguments or to get people down. I just have no-where else to say how I feel. I've grown up and it's not what it used to be.

Over and out

Kuro
#2 Nov 04 2010 at 1:26 PM Rating: Good
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At least with Gran Turismo 5 polyphony has the balls to stall it and stall again, because if it isn't perfect it can bring the house down. They know that.


This, there are plenty of games out right now that could have kept my attention while I waited for a finished FFXIV. I mean I was thinking they would release in the spring. Think of how much better this game would have been with 6 more months of beta.

SE Jumped the gun, and in video games first impressions in a market this competitive is all you get.
#3 Nov 04 2010 at 1:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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You'd think they'd have learned their lesson with FFXI. Most peoples' first impressions of that game were bad and they never came back to it, regardless of how good it is now.

Then they do the same thing with FFXIV, arguably worse. They're lucky they have another 6 months to reinvent the game and "re-release" it for the PS3. But I think most people who were looking forward to it on the PS3 already have their doubts after seeing the PC release.
#4 Nov 04 2010 at 1:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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Sadly, I'm in exactly the same position as KuroGawatwo. I haven't touched FFXIV for about four weeks, even though I went and put my payment option on the six months prepayment plan.

I keep coming back to these forums hoping that the vibe and atmosphere on the game has changed, but each day all I can see is the negative feedback. I don't have much time to play anymore, and the worst part is, although the game is touted for being casual, I feel it takes even more time and dedication than FFXI did.
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#5 Nov 04 2010 at 1:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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However, honestly, even for those that play still, it's a let down, admit it. It just is.


I really wish people would stop trying to speak on my behalf... I'm sure others who have fun playing the game would agree.
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#6 Nov 04 2010 at 1:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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KuroGawatwo wrote: Exactly everything...everything that's been in my head for months, but much better than I could have actually said it.

Thumbs up, I think you nailed the reasons why so many people are so profoundly disappointed.
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#7 Nov 04 2010 at 1:53 PM Rating: Decent
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I think most peoples' problems with the game are they try to rush through it so fast. I'm busy with college and work and family, so I only get to play a few hours every couple of days. Do I wish I could play more? Sure, but it seems like there's not much to get to at this point. I'm fine with how it is now. Hopefully with these updates coming, it'll be a little better for winter or summer break, and I can spend some time enjoying Eorzea.

I don't feel like this game is complete, and I realize it could have used a few more months developing it. I don't regret buying it, or any of the time spent playing. I've got to reconnect with people I haven't talked to since FFXI, and I enjoy the new crafting system. The storyline quests so far have been pretty good, and I like the cutscenes, when we get them. I read how bad FFXI was at the start, and it makes me excited about how good this game will be after one or two expansions.
#8 Nov 04 2010 at 1:57 PM Rating: Good
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not to nitpick, but I grew up loving Square and SquareSoft... Then came SE and things noticably changed. Production values multiplied, but depending on who you are... well things didn't exactly benefit the way some of us hoped they would.

Don't get me wrong, I haven't really hated a FF title (I even enjoyed the FF Adventure/Legend titles on the green screened Game Boy). I've had a few questionable experiences though. X-2 and XIII felt way off the norm. I played both games to completion and enjoyed them, but not on the same level as previous installments.

XI for me had the old Square magic from pre-VII, I think XIV has the potential.

I think they've taken a lot more risks than they used to (game wise, we'll ignore Spirits Within which I actually really like sans FF being in the title), and I appluad them for it... but there are a few games that SE has published or produced lately that would have recieved alot more favorable press had they not been SE titles...
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#9 Nov 04 2010 at 5:02 PM Rating: Good
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ArmaniMizzo wrote:
I think most peoples' problems with the game are they try to rush through it so fast.


The only difference with the people who rushed through the game is that they reached the realization that the game sucks much faster than everyone else.

Edited, Nov 4th 2010 7:23pm by SickleSageKiroh
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#10 Nov 04 2010 at 5:03 PM Rating: Decent
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Thayos wrote:
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However, honestly, even for those that play still, it's a let down, admit it. It just is.


I really wish people would stop trying to speak on my behalf... I'm sure others who have fun playing the game would agree.


Agreed.

I appreciate the tone of the OP though - and I sympathize with his sense of disappointment... but I like FFXIV more than I liked FFXI when I first started playing it (a few months after NA release) - and I absolutely fell in love with XI.

XIV has raised the bar for me with things like crafting (which I never enjoyed before).

Are there some things that bug me? Yeah, but I expected that. Actually before open beta etc. when everyone was just rife with excitement etc. lots of "old-timers" who have gone through a lot of launches of different games did a good job of preparing me for the game to be imperfect. I guess because I expected a brand new mmo to have less content than mmos which have been out for 5+ years, I don't feel let down at all.
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#11 Nov 04 2010 at 10:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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I agree with the original post, and I haven't played FF13 yet, and I don't think I will now (maybe if I can ever get it at $10, but I dont think I'd even play it.)

BUT what REALLY bothers me is that SE is publishing the 3rd installment in one of my top 3 favorite franchises, Deus Ex. I almost want to cry at the thought.... Its a sad, sad thought because I really think SE will only hurt the game. The 2nd wasn't nearly as good as the first, and when I heard a 3rd was being made I was very happy... but now I'm just extremely worried. Hopefully SE will deliver on the game, but I highly doubt it and the videos don't look promising. /sigh

I bought Fallout New Vegas for PS3 and am playing that and xiv alittle bit still. Its just ashame because xiv feels like it is from a very noob developer... I know western and eastern games tend to be very different, but xiv just lacks so much.

Edited, Nov 5th 2010 12:13am by PinkMermaid
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#12 Nov 04 2010 at 10:28 PM Rating: Default
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Thayos wrote:

I really wish people would stop trying to speak on my behalf... I'm sure others who have fun playing the game would agree.



I agree, I feel no one should speak for another person regardless of what they are saying.
Sure, the game right now is little more than a prettier version of FFXI's initial Japanese release with crafting and quests added in (which, I may add, wasn't all that great), however a MMORPG really only needs about 10k monthly subs and 5 years to generate a large profit, even one of SE's immense budget. And to quote a prior press release from SE, they will continue to operate their online games as long as there are enough people playing them to cover the cost of staff, overhead, and other things.

In short, the game will not die, however much you may want it to or want it not to, unless it actually dips so low in subscriptions that it becomes a monetary burden to operate. Heck, even at that point I'm sure they'll find some way to make it work, judging by the few games that have had to do so.
#13 Nov 04 2010 at 11:04 PM Rating: Decent
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I think that the issue up to this point is that SE has always had their cluster of loyal followers to offset the negative reviews they've received from player groups and other not-so-loyal media outlets. This time around, nobody is really defending SE. Some of us are able to find enjoyment in the game. Personally, small doses work best for me especially when it comes to crafting. I had an absolute blast over the last couple of evenings ranking up Pugilist from 10 -> 14 though. Such a deliciously violent class...

A lot of people came to FFXIV expecting a sequel. They were coming in thinking that comparing a brand new MMO to one entering its ninth year of service might yield something beyond disappointment. What they found to be disappointing was magnified by their own naive expectations and hopes. And so instead of boiling it down to the basics that SE has been almost universally criticized for that some might say should never have made it out of the concept room (UI being the main one) and focusing on that and realizing that it's something the devs have said they're working to address, now they start throwing in every single little thing that they personally dislike about the game like all of a sudden SE is beholden to them, the individual in a sea of users, to tweak the game to their liking.

I appreciate the OP's point of view. What I don't appreciate is the general, pervasive sense of hypocrisy that is at the heart of so many kvetches. When debates and flames were raging on these boards about anything and everything to do with casual play, the majority opinion around here was that massive grinds were good, abysmal travel options were good, having to work your *** off for everything was good, quest driven games were stupid and catered only to ADHD 12 year olds.

Less than a year ago, the option to teleport instantly to a location of your choosing was slammed as a bad thing for gaming because it encouraged people to "mindlessly explore" without concern for how they would get back and how XI bred better players because you had to pay for your trip home or hoof it and all that crap. And now that XIV is here everyone is screaming that they don't have enough anima because they port everywhere.

Games like WoW were "too easy" because you could level to the cap in a month and XI was so much better and so much "harder" because at NA launch it took a lot of people 6-12 months to get to 75. And now we've got a game where we're not even two months in and people are halfway to the cap and ******** that progression is way, way, WAY too slow for their liking.

And for all the flames and all the barbs and all the jabs leveled at people who had the nerve to suggest that solo play added a great element to MMOs with their, "MMOs are for partying and I only play for the partying and if you want to solo play an offline game" and now...how many people are saying SP is broken because you don't earn a lot of SP as a solo player beyond rank 20? Poeple cheating and exploiting and getting banned and getting uppity because apparently they don't play MMOs for the parties, they play MMOs for the e-peen and that comes from ranking up as fast as they possibly can by any means necessary and they're only grouping because it's the best way to earn SP and they're cheating because the grindfest they were so ready to defend suddenly doesn't interest them.

Did any of you ever stop to think that maybe if so many people hadn't spent the last 6 years giving SE the two-faced fanboy treatment that they might have actually had a better idea of what people were looking for? I see it...I see it every single time I come here. You'll defend everything wrong with XI tooth and nail to any interloper that happens to compare it to something they like more and then turn around and slam SE for not doing it themselves in XIV.

SE is trying to do their part. Will it be enough? Who knows? God knows their players are doing **** all to help them right now.
#14 Nov 05 2010 at 4:24 AM Rating: Good
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I totally agree, just wrote up a long reply but it turned into a rant so i just decided to scrap it and start again with this more simpler and more pleasing post :)

see what i did there SE



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#15 Nov 05 2010 at 4:26 AM Rating: Decent
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i stopped reading at ff8 i hate ff8 that was the 2nd bad game se made the first being final fantasy mystic quest
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#16 Nov 05 2010 at 6:46 AM Rating: Good
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Galkaholics wrote:
i stopped reading at ff8 i hate ff8 that was the 2nd bad game se made the first being final fantasy mystic quest


SE had nothing to do with VIII, it was Square Co. (or maybe without the Co. but Enix wasn't involved yet), and Mystic Quest wasn't exactly horrible either, it just wasn't a FF game, it was just titled that way to sell in the US... and it worked. It was a decent rental iirc.

Technically I think XII was the first SE game, X-2 and even XI were developed by by Square mostly before the merger around '03.
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#17 Nov 05 2010 at 7:14 AM Rating: Default
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Olorinus the Vile wrote:
Thayos wrote:
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However, honestly, even for those that play still, it's a let down, admit it. It just is.


I really wish people would stop trying to speak on my behalf... I'm sure others who have fun playing the game would agree.


Agreed.

I appreciate the tone of the OP though - and I sympathize with his sense of disappointment... but I like FFXIV more than I liked FFXI when I first started playing it


I agree with this. I'm enjoying XIV more than XI at this equivalent stage. Don't compare a brand new game to one that has had numerous expansions and years of growth. Yes there are some disappointing aspects but if all we have to complain about is a bit of UI lag/design instead of "OMG this is totally unplayable lag" that you might have seen at other MMO launches then this game actually isnt in such bad shape as everyone likes to make out.
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#18 Nov 05 2010 at 9:05 AM Rating: Excellent
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Thayos wrote:
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However, honestly, even for those that play still, it's a let down, admit it. It just is.


I really wish people would stop trying to speak on my behalf... I'm sure others who have fun playing the game would agree.


No offense intended, but as a paid administrator for the ZAM FFXIV forums, aren't you required to have fun? Isn't in the best interest of your continued employment to present an image that the game isn't in as bad of shape as it completely is?
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#19 Nov 05 2010 at 11:40 AM Rating: Decent
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Thayos wrote:
Quote:
However, honestly, even for those that play still, it's a let down, admit it. It just is.


I really wish people would stop trying to speak on my behalf... I'm sure others who have fun playing the game would agree.


I couldn't agree more. However, I will say, I do agree with the OP as far as SE going down hill and just not listening and learning from the fans. It was a let down to me to a certian extent, however I am still finding the fun in this game. Fore me, the fun outweighs the let downs.

PerrinofSylph wrote:
not to nitpick, but I grew up loving Square and SquareSoft... Then came SE and things noticably changed. Production values multiplied, but depending on who you are... well things didn't exactly benefit the way some of us hoped they would.


You are right Perrino, since the merger things have kind of been "meh" as for the FF Series, you aren't the only one to notice it, and I doubt Bethesda would do something similiar, however I will say that I read somewhere that TES V: Summerset Isles was being collaborated with another company or something like that, so the ruling is still out on them.

Olorinus the Vile wrote:
Thayos wrote:
Quote:
However, honestly, even for those that play still, it's a let down, admit it. It just is.


I really wish people would stop trying to speak on my behalf... I'm sure others who have fun playing the game would agree.


Agreed.

I appreciate the tone of the OP though - and I sympathize with his sense of disappointment... but I like FFXIV more than I liked FFXI when I first started playing it (a few months after NA release) - and I absolutely fell in love with XI.

XIV has raised the bar for me with things like crafting (which I never enjoyed before).

Are there some things that bug me? Yeah, but I expected that. Actually before open beta etc. when everyone was just rife with excitement etc. lots of "old-timers" who have gone through a lot of launches of different games did a good job of preparing me for the game to be imperfect. I guess because I expected a brand new mmo to have less content than mmos which have been out for 5+ years, I don't feel let down at all.


I couldn't agree more with this statement. Hopefully though, things will be patched up before the years end. I love this game, but I won't force my Hubbie to play something he feels is horrible, and if he's not playing, then neither will I :/

Edited, Nov 5th 2010 1:41pm by LillithaFenimore
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