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SE's CEO calls ffxiv unsatisfactoryFollow

#1 Nov 05 2010 at 12:54 AM Rating: Default
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Interesting to see this coming from SE.


http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=ja&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fheadlines.yahoo.co.jp%2Fhl%3Fa%3D20101104-00000021-mantan-game



Edited, Nov 5th 2010 3:21am by Brushy

Edited, Nov 5th 2010 3:53am by Brushy
#2 Nov 05 2010 at 1:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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I might be wrong but wasnt this the amazing site that started the whole Fatigue Flame Wars by posted incorrect information about it?
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#3 Nov 05 2010 at 1:07 AM Rating: Excellent
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Fair warning.. I hate FFXIV to the core.. but I will go ahead and say that senkaku is a FFXIV hate site.. that site is extremely bias.. I wouldn't based anything they say as facts unless you got backup sources..

Oh ye they have ultra soft soft core **** in their side bars... at least it looks that way.. but OP has NSFW on it :)

Edited, Nov 5th 2010 3:07am by nick2412
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#4 Nov 05 2010 at 1:07 AM Rating: Excellent
Hugus wrote:
I might be wrong but wasnt this the amazing site that started the whole Fatigue Flame Wars by posted incorrect information about it?


Sankaku is The Inquirer of the web. Take a look at what the sites covered with, and you should have an idea how worthless anything they have to say likely is.
#5 Nov 05 2010 at 1:11 AM Rating: Good
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As unreliable a news source as it is, I would actually feel a little better if he DID comprehend what a disappointment the game is to me as a player. Sadly until I see it on another website I'm not particularly inclined to put much stock in it.
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#6 Nov 05 2010 at 1:12 AM Rating: Decent
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Ah, more of Sankaku's "hate on everything SE" news with horrible distortions per usual.
#7 Nov 05 2010 at 1:19 AM Rating: Default
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#8 Nov 05 2010 at 1:30 AM Rating: Decent
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Wow, writing is officially on the wall when the CEO starts using "irredeemable" and "no future" regardless of the context. This game is not going to last a year.
#9 Nov 05 2010 at 1:37 AM Rating: Good
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OUCH.

lmao. I ussually have high patience for video games such as ffxiv, but i quit like 7 days ago. Just sick of it. nothing to do besides grind on efts.
#10 Nov 05 2010 at 1:38 AM Rating: Default
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Furia wrote:
Wow, writing is officially on the wall when the CEO starts using "irredeemable" and "no future" regardless of the context. This game is not going to last a year.


I think SE might be able to pull something good out of this game because of the pressure from investors.

As far as the ZAM forum goes I don't understand administrators like Osarion who try really hard to undermine facts and legitimate threads like this one.

#11 Nov 05 2010 at 1:39 AM Rating: Good
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Wow, writing is officially on the wall when the CEO starts using "irredeemable" and "no future" regardless of the context. This game is not going to last a year.


Well, to defend SE for once in a few weeks: that's just the Sankaku translation, not the Japanese original.

Quote:
As far as the ZAM forum goes I don't understand administrators like Osarion who try really hard to undermine facts and legitimate threads like this one.



And here I thought I was a furiously fervent and utterly irrational witch-hunter... looks like I found my master, at last. ^.^/

Edited, Nov 5th 2010 3:41am by Rinsui
#12 Nov 05 2010 at 1:41 AM Rating: Decent
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Rinsui wrote:
Quote:
Wow, writing is officially on the wall when the CEO starts using "irredeemable" and "no future" regardless of the context. This game is not going to last a year.


Well, to defend SE for once in a few weeks: that's just the Sankaku translation, not the Japanese original.



here is a Japanese original from someone other then Sankaku. Good luck!

http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20101104-00000021-mantan-game


Edited, Nov 5th 2010 3:42am by Brushy
#13 Nov 05 2010 at 1:44 AM Rating: Good
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The type of online games since 2002 and the ongoing "FF11" number of members is not reduced too much, that transition has not progressed.



SE sees people not abandoning XI as a problem. No surprise there.



Edited, Nov 5th 2010 4:47am by Lobivopis
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I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#14 Nov 05 2010 at 1:48 AM Rating: Good
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Brushy wrote:
Furia wrote:
Wow, writing is officially on the wall when the CEO starts using "irredeemable" and "no future" regardless of the context. This game is not going to last a year.


I think SE might be able to pull something good out of this game because of the pressure from investors.

As far as the ZAM forum goes I don't understand administrators like Osarion who try really hard to undermine facts and legitimate threads like this one.



You trust media sites with both sides of the page filled with cartoon **** banner ads? How delightfully discriminating of you. Also, the translations from your links are not the same as the ones from more credible sources. Your source has been known for some time now to twist things ever so slightly to distort their original meaning in a way that is not favorable to SE. That's a fact. Get a clue before you start taking shots at the admins here.
#15 Nov 05 2010 at 1:50 AM Rating: Decent
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Thanks for the link. Basically he says: "We have to regain trust, or we will reach a point where those who are about to leave will not come back." Sounds about right.
#16 Nov 05 2010 at 1:50 AM Rating: Default
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Aurelius wrote:
Brushy wrote:
Furia wrote:
Wow, writing is officially on the wall when the CEO starts using "irredeemable" and "no future" regardless of the context. This game is not going to last a year.


I think SE might be able to pull something good out of this game because of the pressure from investors.

As far as the ZAM forum goes I don't understand administrators like Osarion who try really hard to undermine facts and legitimate threads like this one.



You trust media sites with both sides of the page filled with cartoon **** banner ads? How delightfully discriminating of you. Also, the translations from your links are not the same as the ones from more credible sources. Your source has been known for some time now to twist things ever so slightly to distort their original meaning in a way that is not favorable to SE. That's a fact. Get a clue before you start taking shots at the admins here.


Why did you write that? Is it to keep deflecting from what is important. I mean for real your ridicule will only help you prove your point. Wait whats your point?



Edited, Nov 5th 2010 4:02am by Brushy
#17 Nov 05 2010 at 1:52 AM Rating: Default
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I'll delete the NSFW links so people can have less bombs to throw.
#18 Nov 05 2010 at 1:53 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Get a clue before you start taking shots


...nah, sorry, that was unnecessary. You do have a point.

Edited, Nov 5th 2010 3:54am by Rinsui
#19 Nov 05 2010 at 1:56 AM Rating: Decent
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It's on Kotaku now as well.
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#20 Nov 05 2010 at 1:59 AM Rating: Good
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Oh! Another credible source! ^.^/
#22 Nov 05 2010 at 2:01 AM Rating: Default
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Rinsui wrote:
Oh! Another credible source! ^.^/


Just out curiosity do you think Yahoo Japan is a credible source? (sarcasm)


Edited, Nov 5th 2010 4:18am by Brushy
#23 Nov 05 2010 at 2:17 AM Rating: Good
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Yahoo Japan is a very credible source. In Japan, Yahoo is an bit of its own new service, ISP offering up to 1000MB/sec(Yes 1GB/sec) connections, and a search engine and the #2/#1 search engines at times. It battles quite close with google.

It's like saying "Is Microsoft's MSN Finance's reviews with CEOs a credible source?". Well, fairly credible. Its not like its 'Billy Bob say he interviewed Michael Jackson during dying moments from 100 miles away via ESP'.
#24 Nov 05 2010 at 2:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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Got me. Actually, you are right. There are no "credible" sources on the internet.
At least not in the same way offline print sources were labeled as "credible" some 10 years ago.

But among the uncredible ones, Sankaku no doubt leads the pack.
#25 Nov 05 2010 at 2:21 AM Rating: Default
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Rinsui wrote:
Got me. Actually, you are right. There are no "credible" sources on the internet.
At least not in the same way offline print sources were labeled as "credible" some 10 years ago.

But among the uncredible ones, Sankaku no doubt leads the pack.



They got it right this time.
#26 Nov 05 2010 at 2:26 AM Rating: Decent
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Barring the flashy and ever-pompous wording, at it's core, wedged between **** like a patty between bread and salad, yes.
#27 Nov 05 2010 at 2:34 AM Rating: Decent
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This thread did not go the way I thought It would. First I thought Someone would post that fact that admitting wrong or apologizing was not a common thing to hear in the Japanese business culture and then lead into the main thing Wada say's which was Building trust back.

What was I thinking this is ZAM. The first thing people want to do is attack with a futile attempt at taking there frustration out because they bought an unfinished game. Love it or hate it, almost everyone is overly emotional and it is sad that Zam is used as a venting tool.

Edited, Nov 5th 2010 4:35am by Brushy
#28 Nov 05 2010 at 3:00 AM Rating: Excellent
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A couple things :

1.) I'm glad to see that the source was (relatively) correct in this instance. I'm very pleased to see SE acknowledge the issues this game has. Whether that will translate into patching/fixing in a constructive/timely way is yet to be seen.

2.) The fact that you had any expectations when you started this thread is silly. If you want scripted conversations that go the way you expect them to, you might want to consider talking to some NPCs.

3.) Any information that comes from second-hand sources is subject to skepticism. And unfortunately since SE doesn't really do it's own press releases for things like this, 2nd hand sources are really all we're left with.

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#29 Nov 05 2010 at 3:17 AM Rating: Good
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I believe this should be front page news on ZAM.

You know you won't see it on the Lodestone.
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#30 Nov 05 2010 at 3:23 AM Rating: Good
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Lobivopis wrote:
Quote:
The type of online games since 2002 and the ongoing "FF11" number of members is not reduced too much, that transition has not progressed.



SE sees people not abandoning XI as a problem. No surprise there.



Edited, Nov 5th 2010 4:47am by Lobivopis


I thought that, that was SE's intention, they didn't want to make this direct competition with their other MMO.
So now their blaming their other mmo for being too fun? i see ffxi getting the fun sucked out now :(
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#31 Nov 05 2010 at 3:31 AM Rating: Good
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Okay, here's my tinfoil hat moment of the day.

Hiromichi Tanaka developed FFXI. It's his baby.

SE put him in charge of FFXIV development.

From what I understand, he hasn't actually laid one finger on FFXIV the whole time, letting his subordinates do everything.

What would the chances he intentionally tried to scuttle FFXIV to keep FFXI as the focus be?
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#32 Nov 05 2010 at 3:42 AM Rating: Good
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You don't even need to read an interview to know it all before he said it, this game isn't selling well to the point of being reduced pretty heavily by retailers, its panned by EVERY professional reviewer, its hated by the majority of people that try to play it, it's hated across every forum where the admins don't protect it because the fanbase are ****** at it being so crappy, the people that did buy it are all stopping playing and they are working at a snails pace on fixes to try make players that did stick it out feel happier about the future. Did I miss anything?

All that is known and you need to read some interview to figure out what he just said in it? In fact he put a glossy varnish on it, this game is in a really bad place right now and I honestly don't think anything, including the ps3 can save it(I don't think a game has ever recovered from anything like a bad start as this). They are moving so slowly to counter the bad feeling that people won't want to come back and pay a monthly fee just to be dissapointed, this game is hoenstly and truely crap and I don't think they can do enough good stuff in such a short time to make it good, I don't think they even know how to honestly. Most of us on thie forum could run the game better than whoever is in charge, they have no idea wtf they are doing and this game is sinking faster than the titanic.

When you have a flop of a launch you need to haul *** and make everyone feel assured you are on the case and putting out minor fixes regularly and keep everyone updated on progress on the big stuff. They are doing none of this and indeed putting their heads in their shell and making those that are sticking it out wait in silence.

If you find any value in the this game I feel sorry for you because it will never recover from this and be a success so you are basically attached now to a game that is never going to live up to it's "potential", it won't even reach FFXI standards. At best it will be a game that will have minor success in Japan and have high % of those in comparision to everyone else. **** it might even become the next tetra master, for a small charge you get to play it along with FFXI.

I bet the investors and the company as a whole is glad they still have FFXI running well, at least they have one good MMO to fall back on.
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#33 Nov 05 2010 at 7:41 AM Rating: Good
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Zorvan wrote:
Okay, here's my tinfoil hat moment of the day.

Hiromichi Tanaka developed FFXI. It's his baby.

SE put him in charge of FFXIV development.

From what I understand, he hasn't actually laid one finger on FFXIV the whole time, letting his subordinates do everything.

What would the chances he intentionally tried to scuttle FFXIV to keep FFXI as the focus be?


As silly as that sounds, it would explain some of the more off the wall design features.
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#34 Nov 05 2010 at 8:40 AM Rating: Excellent
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This seems more and more like decentralization gone wrong. All of the parts are done really well, but they don't fit together. Someone over there setup a system that was "efficient" at sending tasks to the "correct" department bypassing management and creating a better work flow. So an issue with the market system was sent to the market ward creation team, who's authority consists of, well, creating the market wards.

My guess is no-one played the game through, they all played with their own little parts.

Now management is getting a slap in the face and actually looking at the monstrosity they've created. They're scared now. There will be a last ditch effort to salvage the game, if it works the game will continue to run. Profitable will not be enough to keep the game running, it needs to be successful. If it's viewed by the public as a failure it'll be buried to minimize damage to their reputation.
#35 Nov 05 2010 at 9:03 AM Rating: Good
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Well personally I'm going to give them till March to see massive improvements. That will give SE a full 4 month to fix this sinking ship.
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#36 Nov 05 2010 at 9:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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dyvidd wrote:
Well personally I'm going to give them till March to see massive improvements. That will give SE a full 4 month to fix this sinking ship.


Hey, I'm willing to give them 'til March. But I ain't willing to pay them in the meantime.
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#37 Nov 05 2010 at 9:16 AM Rating: Default
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KujaKoF wrote:
Zorvan wrote:
Okay, here's my tinfoil hat moment of the day.

Hiromichi Tanaka developed FFXI. It's his baby.

SE put him in charge of FFXIV development.

From what I understand, he hasn't actually laid one finger on FFXIV the whole time, letting his subordinates do everything.

What would the chances he intentionally tried to scuttle FFXIV to keep FFXI as the focus be?


As silly as that sounds, it would explain some of the more off the wall design features.


This sounds unrealistic and an awful lot similar to every conspiracy theory. We are talking about professionals. Its in tanaka's best interest for XIV to do well if he was put in charge.
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#38 Nov 05 2010 at 9:31 AM Rating: Good
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This sounds unrealistic and an awful lot similar to every conspiracy theory. We are talking about professionals. Its in tanaka's best interest for XIV to do well if he was put in charge.
This because if FFXIV does fail Tanaka could very well lose his job.
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#39 Nov 05 2010 at 9:44 AM Rating: Decent
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It's a pity as a core the idea of XIV is neat but it falls flat from the repetitive motions of a single player game rather then attempt to be casual. SE's definition to casual appears to be make a single player game where community isn't really needed but the purpose of an MMO is to be a community and need help in instances. I would say it's still possible to save XIV but they would prolly have to pull the plug on the game for a month or two or even until ps3 release while they add more content and heck steal some concepts from XI and put it into XIV I mean that's why people are still playing XI since it offers a ton more content then what XIV has to offer.

Though the major problem as of now in my eyes appears to be what these two upcoming version updates are offering, the one we are getting in November doesn't really seem to be adding anything new and rather juts fixing some things wrong with what's currently in the game and the December updates is only adding one new addition in terms of "content" and that would be the NM system. Other then that the December update is also adding in more leves and tweaks which really isn't that much when you consider what players really want.

In all the real problem is SE kinda listened to the minority when it comes to what they want in an MMO, sure it's nice to have casual content but casual doesn't automatically equal single player and no need to team up. It's very possible to have setup hubs where random adventurers can tag a quest they are on and wait for others who are on the same quest to party up basically say. They talk to an NPC and say I'd like 2-3 people to help me with this tough quest, then other players could go to this NPC and see what people need help with and join up with them. Unlike how the current party feature is setup which is very confusing, this would allow casuals who don't have a lot of time to play be able to team up with random players and at the same time begin to create a community of trust within the random people they meet. At the same time SE wouldn't have to make every single fight soloable and instead make things more challenging and actually rewarding when you beat it.

Overall SE just needs to reevaluate how they wanna ring in the casual crowd cause by making the casual=solo you also make the Hardcore=powerlevel to an easy degree. I keep looking at the lodestone hoping to see some new concept being introduced but I am always disappointed to see stupid FAQS on things that should've been known before the game was released especially the one that came out today. They prolly lost a good amount of people over the frustration of having no idea how attributes effected crafting and had they let us known earlier they could've had a lot less frustrated people. Though I still do have hopes for this game the looks of this lackluster VU coming up doesn't really leave much room for hope. Hopefully SE can manage something and resurrect the game before it's to late.
#40 Nov 05 2010 at 9:55 AM Rating: Decent
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Zorvan wrote:
Okay, here's my tinfoil hat moment of the day.

Hiromichi Tanaka developed FFXI. It's his baby.

SE put him in charge of FFXIV development.

From what I understand, he hasn't actually laid one finger on FFXIV the whole time, letting his subordinates do everything.

What would the chances he intentionally tried to scuttle FFXIV to keep FFXI as the focus be?


Komoto is the director of XIV. He's the one who has been doing the communicating with the players since launch. Tanaka seems to have been used as a front man for a time because people were familiar with him. I don't think he's made a public comment about the game since retail launch.
#41 Nov 05 2010 at 10:44 AM Rating: Decent
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Briefly glancing at the article I got something along the lines of the following. Just picking out his quotes.

http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20101104-00000021-mantan-game


「ファイナルファンタジー(FF)14」が利用者から不評であることを認めた上で「(サービスが)満足のいく状態でなく、急ピッチで改善中。信頼回復に全力を挙げたい

Upon Final Fantasy (FF14) getting bad write ups from users, he commented "The service is not in a satisfying condition, and is being improved at a quick pace. I want to put all my strength into regaining the trust of the users."


満足してもらえれば、離れた利用者も戻ってくる。逆に(利用者から)『もう無理だ』と思われたらそれ以後はない。信頼回復に尽きる

If satisfactory, users who left the game will also come back. Conversely, those who thought 「its over」, there's nothing after that. It all depends on regaining their trust.

Underlined part I'm not 100% about the context.
#42 Nov 05 2010 at 10:56 AM Rating: Good
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ThePacster wrote:
Briefly glancing at the article I got something along the lines of the following. Just picking out his quotes.

http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20101104-00000021-mantan-game


「ファイナルファンタジー(FF)14」が利用者から不評であることを認めた上で「(サービスが)満足のいく状態でなく、急ピッチで改善中。信頼回復に全力を挙げたい

Upon Final Fantasy (FF14) getting bad write ups from users, he commented "The service is not in a satisfying condition, and is being improved at a quick pace. I want to put all my strength into regaining the trust of the users."


満足してもらえれば、離れた利用者も戻ってくる。逆に(利用者から)『もう無理だ』と思われたらそれ以後はない。信頼回復に尽きる

If satisfactory, users who left the game will also come back. Conversely, those who thought 「its over」, there's nothing after that. It all depends on regaining their trust.

Underlined part I'm not 100% about the context.



i think hes referring to people who have completely written square enix off, and will no longer buy any of their products. the article seemed to be about more than just ff14.
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#43 Nov 05 2010 at 11:17 AM Rating: Decent
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Tanaka seems to have been used as a front man for a time because people were familiar with him. I don't think he's made a public comment about the game since retail launch.


This. He was important in FFXI so they used him for PR, thats about as far as his involvement went I think.
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#44 Nov 05 2010 at 12:03 PM Rating: Decent
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I think XIV fails in trying to catter for a different market while still cattering to its old one.

I mean, think about it. The requirements to get a decent rank are still requirements from a hardcore game.
FF players like to sit back and enjoy the strategy in the battle, yet they changed it to a hack and slash game. Its actually less productive for me to debuff a mob than to spam attacks or offensive spells. Same goes for battle regimes.

Also the fact that they don't really force you to play in party is hurting the social aspect of this game. maybe if there was a more convenient system to form groups, or a better incentive, but there really isnt.

Also, since there is no exp loss soloing becomes more attractive. You'd think it twice if you had to risk your exp.

Edited, Nov 5th 2010 2:04pm by MajidahSihaam
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#45 Nov 05 2010 at 12:28 PM Rating: Good
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MajidahSihaam wrote:


Also the fact that they don't really force you to play in party is hurting the social aspect of this game. maybe if there was a more convenient system to form groups, or a better incentive, but there really isnt.

Also, since there is no exp loss soloing becomes more attractive. You'd think it twice if you had to risk your exp.



I dunno but even for me as a conjurer, one of the classes that gets crummy SP as a rule in groups... the SP is still better than soloing.
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#46 Nov 05 2010 at 12:36 PM Rating: Default
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Olorinus the Vile wrote:
MajidahSihaam wrote:


Also the fact that they don't really force you to play in party is hurting the social aspect of this game. maybe if there was a more convenient system to form groups, or a better incentive, but there really isnt.

Also, since there is no exp loss soloing becomes more attractive. You'd think it twice if you had to risk your exp.



I dunno but even for me as a conjurer, one of the classes that gets crummy SP as a rule in groups... the SP is still better than soloing.


Yeah, but you have to come to that conclusion. The same way people should be using the first two wards for what they are intended and not all the misc stuff they can fit in.
I doubt a community who won't use wards that have actual labels to sell their stuff, will struggle with the party search system to go and see if the average sp in a group is higher than the sp they are getting without any kind of penalty.

Specialy casual players.

And honestly? Penalties work better than rewards.
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#47 Nov 05 2010 at 12:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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MajidahSihaam wrote:
Penalties work better than rewards.


I think that penalties only work when combined with rewards... and I think a lot of posters here would argue (and I would largely agree with them) that the last thing SE needs to do is add ANY kind of penalty to the player-base.

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#48 Nov 05 2010 at 12:55 PM Rating: Decent
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Olorinus the Vile wrote:
MajidahSihaam wrote:
Penalties work better than rewards.


I think that penalties only work when combined with rewards... and I think a lot of posters here would argue (and I would largely agree with them) that the last thing SE needs to do is add ANY kind of penalty to the player-base.



I think it'd be good to implement penalties only if the game and servers were working as intended. I die a lot due to miy actions not going off when I hit the buttons.
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#49 Nov 05 2010 at 2:52 PM Rating: Good
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"And honestly? Penalties work better than rewards."

What penalties? Forcing me to run around clicking on dozens of bazaars to find something. A horrible targetting system, that forces me to use macros. Spending hours running from point A to point B, because there is no efficient transportation system. No "sell all" button when i want to sell a stack of crap loot. Limiting how many characters I can use in a tell. I could go on and on about how regular players are penalized by this poorly designed game.
#50 Nov 05 2010 at 6:47 PM Rating: Good
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MajidahSihaam wrote:

And honestly? Penalties work better than rewards.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suBGbef5p3g&feature=channel

Fun game eh?
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#51 Nov 05 2010 at 7:10 PM Rating: Good
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1,218 posts
Brushy wrote:
Furia wrote:
Wow, writing is officially on the wall when the CEO starts using "irredeemable" and "no future" regardless of the context. This game is not going to last a year.


I think SE might be able to pull something good out of this game because of the pressure from investors.

As far as the ZAM forum goes I don't understand administrators like Osarion who try really hard to undermine facts and legitimate threads like this one.



As some one who has been very critical of FFXIV and S-E, I think I can safely say that I am not biased at all in favor of S-E.

And as some one who is not at all biased in favor of S-E, I agree 100% with Osarion. Senkaku is completely worthless as an actual news source, as they showed with the fatigue "story." It seems pretty clear that they've got a hate-on for FFXIV to the point that they're not going to let facts get in the way of a good criticism.

In this case they turned out to be correct, but I'll wait until they get it right a few more times before I call them legit.

P.S.-=- I do think the mods and admins here are a little more optimistic about the game than the average player, but really the game is their purpose for being here, so what do you expect?


Edited, Nov 5th 2010 9:19pm by KarlHungis
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