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Repairing self = Players giving upFollow

#1 Nov 05 2010 at 4:43 AM Rating: Good
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Many players, including myself, have come across conflict of repairing all sorts of items that wear and tear. There are number of equipments that are considered to be far fetched to be repaired because item of the material cannot be found, costly or time consuming to level up specific or multiple crafts equipment is worn, and if not the last, costly or high demand forcing the repairers to have you raise gil reward price to be put to work.

Now, I have been playing up until now but have decided to forcefully give up my main craft and onto black smith specifically in case I need to repair weapons. By weapons, most are metallic that are often used on black smith's side v. other crafts purchased the most. Take the weapons for dagger, knuckles, and shields/Axes. Which do you think the most is being used in the category of weapon needs/repairs? Black smith is the core for the most part.

I don't want to go too depth into this but a lot of players are getting very agitated and flustered at the fact multiple crafts or a second craft might be needed just to repair what they need to move forward. Another conflict are the NPCS offering insane prices to repair armor where for some repairers are willing to repair cheap. Sure, you might do leves to earn gil but at some time later it's all going to be costly when being repaired back at 75 %(I mean really... only 75%?) for 20...30... or even some items 50k.

I know the purpose of all these repairs is to prevent RMT, but this is just getting out of hand. I didn't mind the non-existent use of AH, but constantly needing to repair is becoming obscure.

I'm aware and most of my friends who play this (in the real world) are feeling the same thing. We took consideration and note to buy only equipment for that specific favorable job and optimal rank. The wear and tear comes too often, especially those who play mage jobs doing their role nursing the parties. I really hope Square Enix reads this and notices this too much flawed and too much procrastination, and too much pressure for every other player out there having to bear this constant chore of leveling one thing to another, begging for repairs, paying insane prices, and unable to find items to repair an equipment. I have lost good friends because of this.

#2 Nov 05 2010 at 4:53 AM Rating: Default
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seriously? you lost friends because of the repair system?.. I can point out many fatal flaws with the game - but it's because of the repair system people leave? Pick a better reason at least. ^^

Anywho, first off - you're doing things correctly if you're keeping armour / weapons within your level.. that's usually the gripe I read about the repair system. "No one can repair my level 46 sword.. waaah.."

The only advice I can give you is this - FFXIV is meant to be a social game (in most aspects) people believe parties are dead and it's hard to meet people.. but guess what? past level 20 it's a given! Best thing to do is get yourself in a linkshell with variety.. so LS members are able to fix your gears + get to level past 20 in parties.

The LS I am in, in Palmecia - are a diverse bunch of NA and EU players.. have every craft covered (yes, even cooking) and for the most part - most jobs when we get together.

If you don't have the main Leather/Weaver/Armourer class covered, I could see how this could be a problem.. that's why SE has setup multiple Linkshells - get into a crafting LS that can help each other.. this isn't a single player game. ^^

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#3 Nov 05 2010 at 5:26 AM Rating: Good
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I agree with the OP when it comes to how fast wear happens.. it should be more along the lines of the rest of your gear.. its about 5 times faster than anything else you use
#4 Nov 05 2010 at 5:38 AM Rating: Decent
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RisonSrithuram wrote:
seriously? you lost friends because of the repair system?.. I can point out many fatal flaws with the game - but it's because of the repair system people leave? Pick a better reason at least. ^^

Anywho, first off - you're doing things correctly if you're keeping armour / weapons within your level.. that's usually the gripe I read about the repair system. "No one can repair my level 46 sword.. waaah.."

The only advice I can give you is this - FFXIV is meant to be a social game (in most aspects) people believe parties are dead and it's hard to meet people.. but guess what? past level 20 it's a given! Best thing to do is get yourself in a linkshell with variety.. so LS members are able to fix your gears + get to level past 20 in parties.

The LS I am in, in Palmecia - are a diverse bunch of NA and EU players.. have every craft covered (yes, even cooking) and for the most part - most jobs when we get together.

If you don't have the main Leather/Weaver/Armourer class covered, I could see how this could be a problem.. that's why SE has setup multiple Linkshells - get into a crafting LS that can help each other.. this isn't a single player game. ^^



You're kinda drifting off the subject here. The topic is about repairs preventing from moving forward without worrying about repairs. The resources to repair are available in the Ls, but then what do you do when they're all over the place? Warp to them? People are very grim on Anima recovery. I didn't lose them essentially, but lost a few who quit the game. We are doing things correctly: going afk and bazaaring items to get things repaired at NPC repair spot is the best option so far or leaving them on retainers.

But again, arguably you have problems with:

1) Cost/Time/Money
2) NPC doesn't repair at full even some equipments are extremely expensive to fix
3) Item extremely hard to find/buy
4) Availability who can repair it (most of the time people need to shout)
5) Level (like availability) that aren't even high enough to to repair it
6) without repairs = Acc/dmg Def/stats (NOT BONUS STATS) goes down = bad performance

#5 Nov 05 2010 at 6:00 AM Rating: Decent
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Sorry if i'm drifting.. not near enough coffee yet.

I guess I haven't personally had an issue getting weapons repaired. The backstory right now, is i'm an Armourer (28) and Gladiator (21) - two jobs that go hand-in-hand (second is blacksmith 18)
I chose my job classes in the Beta - with the intent of being able to repair my own gear as I go through the game.

If you were a melee class and didn't have the ability to repair your weapon - wow.. that would suck, cause I know my brass dagger is burnt after 2 hours easy.

I absolutely agree with weapon wear and your OP.. and it kind of forces people into different roles, unless they want to carry 5 of the same weapons around to grind for a few hours.

The good side is, you can fix a weapon that is 10 levels off to make.. it may take 2-3 tries.. but as a Goldsmith L11, I can fix my brass dagger no prob.
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#6 Nov 05 2010 at 6:16 AM Rating: Decent
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This is where being an organized and patience person comes in handy.

I've been playing the game as I think SE intended, I'm not rushing to the level cap as fast as possible, instead of that, I've been leveling all classes in a balanced way and keeping all of them at close range.

So, I have all crafts between 14 and 20, same as my PUG and THA, the rest of the war/magic classes, are a little lower than that, but I wont have any issues by the time I decide to use them, since I will be able to craft whatever I need for them. I've made almost all my equipment, tools and weapons, so I use things about same range of the class, not with as big difference between rank ranges, this way, I've been handling my own repairs, doing my own farming for repair items, and using the leves to keep the ranks balanced and the money flowing. (which I use for crystals and guild support)

There are still lots of things to learn and do in the game, so why rushing to rank 50? If you can't find someone to repair some equipment, go start playing other class, explore the world, talk to npc's, play around, etc, etc.
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#7namasy, Posted: Nov 05 2010 at 6:20 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) well, this game is kinda toooo hard most poeple!!
#8 Nov 05 2010 at 6:26 AM Rating: Decent
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I for one don't enjoy the crafting system. And I don't plan on spending a lot of my game time leveling up various crafts, just so I can repair my own gear. We have LS members who can repair my gear, the problem is they are either not on when I need repairs, or in a different town, or out of the materials needed for the repairs.

Then there is also the issue of how quickly gear degrades. Some days I need to do 2 or 3 repairs, and have to carry 3 weapons on me at all times.

And finally, there is the time issue. It takes time to unequip all my gear, change to the required craft class, and do the repairs. I've been in grind parties, where half an hour or more has been spent doing repairs.

Why can't most NPC merchants do cheap 100% repairs, with only a few click of the mouse. Other games do it.

This game was designed to **** off RMTs, instead it has ****** off the regular player.
#9 Nov 05 2010 at 6:33 AM Rating: Good
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The durability/repair system is my biggest complaint atm, it's the one thing that hampers my enjoyment and leads me to log out. It happens entirely too often and forces me into roles I'm not interested in playing, even with the resources there to fulfill my repair needs, it sucks all the fun out of playing.

If it happened let's say, every week or two I could maybe learn to live with it but as it is now, it's a no go.
#10namasy, Posted: Nov 05 2010 at 6:35 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) whats a RMTs?
#11 Nov 05 2010 at 7:23 AM Rating: Good
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It happens entirely too often and forces me into roles I'm not interested in playing...


This is the heart of the problem. SE dictates how you play their game. It's not a sandbox world for you to explore and enjoy how you see fit: it's an assembly line on top of a treadmill inside of a sweat shop.

For players with limited play time, it's extremely frustrating to spend my short visits in Eorzea grinding out crafting levels just so I can effectively play the parts of the game I actually enjoy (i.e. adventuring).

IRL, I work hard at one job so I can pay my mortgage, maintain my car, buy groceries, have an active social life, etc. I didn't have to become a landscaper, a carpenter, a lumberjack, an electrician, a plumber, a miner, a farmer, a chef, and an auto mechanic to build those things from scratch.

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#12 Nov 05 2010 at 7:43 AM Rating: Decent
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Most of the time people are complaining about their weapons degrating too fast is because they're 10 levels below the optimum level. If you use equipment at or near your character's level, you will only have to repair your equipment every other day or so. For example. I'm an archer level 21. I used the maple longbow up till about 16 (it's optimal level is 8). At that time, I only needed to repair it once a week. When I switched to the Plumed Willow Shortbow (optimum level 21), I was having to repair my bow every few hours. Now that I'm level 21, I have to repair it maybe once a day when grinding.

My Advice, swallow your pride and use lower equipment or accept the fact that by using higher level equip, you're going to pay the price.
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Irishclass777 said: crafting is crafting no matter the game just because crafting is a job in ffxiv don't it much change much.


#13 Nov 05 2010 at 8:01 AM Rating: Decent
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"Most of the time people are complaining about their weapons degrating too fast is because they're 10 levels below the optimum level. If you use equipment at or near your character's level, you will only have to repair your equipment every other day or so. For example. I'm an archer level 21. I used the maple longbow up till about 16 (it's optimal level is 8). At that time, I only needed to repair it once a week. When I switched to the Plumed Willow Shortbow (optimum level 21), I was having to repair my bow every few hours. Now that I'm level 21, I have to repair it maybe once a day when grinding.

My Advice, swallow your pride and use lower equipment or accept the fact that by using higher level equip, you're going to pay the price."

I've never used a weapon above my level. I'm R31 and still use a R22 weapon. And that word "optimal" is kinda misleading, it should be "minimum".

I don't mind repairing my gear on a daily basis, as long as the process is cheap and efficient.
#14 Nov 05 2010 at 8:21 AM Rating: Decent
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Actually the amount of wear on equipment is a bit unrealistic if you ask me.
How many times does a construction worker need to replace his brand new set of tools or his brand new uniform? Once every three months at the most even though he uses them daily. Maintenance should consist of just keeping them clean or oiled not outright repairs. I would expect gear to wear out for an adventure in a in game month of in game play after *constant* use because game characters work 24 hrs a day not 8. But the way things are now, a pc wears his crap out in less than a in game week if not three in game days.
Yes, it could be said that all the weapons and items in ff14 are incredibly cheap and ragged compared to real life. But even baseball bats and hockey sticks take a while before they're replaced. Back in the day, I only needed a new baseball bat once every Christmas.

If Square was trying to add a bit of realism to the game with this wear and tear system it seems they never actually thought about how quickly or how slowly brand new tools/weapons/clothes break down. You guys use your computers constantly. How often do you need a brand-new, working machine replaced because of wear?
#15 Nov 05 2010 at 8:36 AM Rating: Excellent
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Just recently, people were saying that money is too easy to come by in this game. A mil is chump change while other players boasted about have 2mil, 10mil, and even 60mil (!) just within the month or so. People were afraid that everything was going to be inflated due the the easy flow of gil.

Then I turn around and there are people saying that things are too expensive in the game (including weapon repairs) and that makes it frustrating to play.

What do you feel SE should do so that both of these problems are addressed satisfactorily?
#16 Nov 05 2010 at 8:41 AM Rating: Good
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All I ever did:

1. Put items needed repair onto my own Bazaar (NOT the retainer).
2. Walk to repair NPC.
3. /s (Crafter Class)(Repair)(Can I have it?)(Please Assist)
4. ????
5. Profit!

Seriously, that took 2 minutes. Sure it's long, but why people just stay there silently and hoping to get someone notice their items needed repair for who know how long, when all you need to do is ask? Even had a time when 4 people come to repair all 4 items I put on Bazaar at once right after I asked >_>
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#17 Nov 05 2010 at 8:46 AM Rating: Default
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I've never had to pay more than 5k to a player to get an item repaired. I have on occasion paid 16k to a NPC to repair a R15 tunic to 75%. I remember onc NPC repair session that cost me over 80k.

Bottom line is this:

Gear wears down too quickly fix it
NPC repairmen charge to much for poor quality work OFF WITH THEIR HEADS
Most if not all merchants should be able to repair fix it
There should be merchants at all the aetherite camps fix it
#18 Nov 05 2010 at 8:51 AM Rating: Decent
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I actually like this system. Most people are used to MMO's where they bash in mob's heads. A minority of players spend the time to level up crafting only to sell equipment. With this system, crafters have a much larger role. They will always be needed like toilet paper and toothpaste.

Edited, Nov 5th 2010 10:52am by tmproff
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Irishclass777 said: crafting is crafting no matter the game just because crafting is a job in ffxiv don't it much change much.


#19 Nov 05 2010 at 8:55 AM Rating: Good
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tmproff wrote:
I actually like this system. Most people are used to MMO's where they bash in mob's heads. A minority of players spend the time to level up crafting only to sell equipment. With this system, crafters have a much larger role. They will always be needed like toilet paper and toothpaste.

Edited, Nov 5th 2010 10:52am by tmproff


If they make the UI more intuitive for repairing, as someone who regularly repair my LS members' weapons I hate the process you have to go through to repair SOMEONE ELSE item, and that's already several times faster then putting your item up for repair/repair your own. The idea of having someone dedicated to repair however, sure is nice, if the application is good.
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#20 Nov 05 2010 at 9:37 AM Rating: Decent
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Khornette wrote:
All I ever did:

1. Put items needed repair onto my own Bazaar (NOT the retainer).
2. Walk to repair NPC.
3. /s (Crafter Class)(Repair)(Can I have it?)(Please Assist)
4. ????
5. Profit!

Seriously, that took 2 minutes. Sure it's long, but why people just stay there silently and hoping to get someone notice their items needed repair for who know how long, when all you need to do is ask? Even had a time when 4 people come to repair all 4 items I put on Bazaar at once right after I asked >_>


Tried that numerous times and only received a response on a few occasions. Still proves a how silly a system it is. There needs to be a way to find or filter those who can repair rather than asking a random group of people if they can repair.

While I understand the importance of a player driven economy at high level it is killing the lower levels. We have a few issues all compounding into issue for many players.

Low level crafts have too much interdependence. Items up to rank 10 should only need a single craft to create. Each tier can add a support craft, but currently there are too many sub steps and issues finding components that many pieces of low level gear are just not being crafted at all when higher level gear is cheaper and easier to make. This forces lower level people to use over rank gear since it is all that people sell. As we all over rank gear degrades faster which means more runs to the repair NPC.

The repair NPC doesn't repair all items and also doesn't repair to 100%. Do to the difficulty in finding repair parts due to random luck finding a bazaar with the item you want and the randomness of finding someone with either the proper skills or willingness to repair an item the NPCs are often the only repair option. They need to tier the repair costs by your rank to make them reasonable, repair all slots and repair to 100%. Charge per point of damage per rank so as you level gear repairs scale accordingly. Over rank gear has more total durability so would still cost more than gear of the correct level, but people would still be able to level rather than be entirely stymied.

I have yet to get a single job to rank 20 yet due to spending a good 30 minutes getting materials or gil to repair for every 2 hours or so of gameplay. I basicaly log in and run leves then repair what I can, realize I basically spent all my reward gil on repairs and so I am left unable to afford to level crafts out of leves and still stuck using the repair NPC. Then I just log out hoping that the November update is miraculous or else I'll just unsub, uninstall and add FFXIV to the pile of failed MMOs.
#21 Nov 05 2010 at 9:52 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I have yet to get a single job to rank 20 yet due to spending a good 30 minutes getting materials or gil to repair for every 2 hours or so of gameplay.


I feel your pain...for the first few weeks, I played solo and had a really hard time getting mats. I have now joined a guild that has a great focus on crafting, and now it's quite fun to get together and mass craft. Last night, we got together and made a few higher level lances. Our lancer benefited by getting a shiny new lance, and everyone else benefited by selling the extra's that we made.

I believe this is what SE wanted us to do in the first place.
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Irishclass777 said: crafting is crafting no matter the game just because crafting is a job in ffxiv don't it much change much.


#22 Nov 05 2010 at 9:58 AM Rating: Good
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Pocketed wrote:


I have yet to get a single job to rank 20 yet due to spending a good 30 minutes getting materials or gil to repair for every 2 hours or so of gameplay. I basicaly log in and run leves then repair what I can, realize I basically spent all my reward gil on repairs and so I am left unable to afford to level crafts out of leves and still stuck using the repair NPC. Then I just log out hoping that the November update is miraculous or else I'll just unsub, uninstall and add FFXIV to the pile of failed MMOs.


Either you're exaggerating or you're using a velveteen gown at R5... in which case you should have saved the 400K you spent buying that gown and bought a hempen robe instead and used the money for the 300 gil repair


Edited, Nov 5th 2010 8:59am by Olorinus
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When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#23 Nov 05 2010 at 10:08 AM Rating: Excellent
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The repair system is a pain in the *** even if you don't have to rely on others...

I've been leveling goldsmithing, leathercraft and weaving while progressing on Pugilist, so I could always repair (and sometimes craft) my own gear, but figuring out WHAT piece of gear is damaged when you get a yellow/red warning is a quest in itself... easier to just let it all rot till something hits red, hit the naked-macro, then parse through all my gear while donning crafting tools.

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#24 Nov 05 2010 at 10:12 AM Rating: Decent
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Olorinus the Vile wrote:


Either you're exaggerating or you're using a velveteen gown at R5... in which case you should have saved the 400K you spent buying that gown and bought a hempen robe instead and used the money for the 300 gil repair


Edited, Nov 5th 2010 8:59am by Olorinus


I am not exaggerating. Harvesting the materials takes time to to randomness of what you harvest as well chances of success being rather random in the mini games. Time yourself harvesting the materials to repair all of your gear. Everything and don't forget your jewelry and crafting things such as a growth formula alpha. So go mine and cut down trees for all of your base materials and then spend a minute or so each sub craft due to interface loading. Wait for the interface to load to unequip your gear and then wait for it all to load again to attempt repairs and get what you can done. Run to the repair NPC to repair what you can't yourself.

For me an average of one to two shows play out on TV.

Of course you also have the option gambling that you can find the component you want on a bazaar and spend a good amount of time looking (or shouting for the item). After that you can shout for someone to do repairs, but that can get you either an instant response or no response. With luck that could be a quick process, but my experiences trying to find a specific item on a bazaar has been well beyond annoying even using yg and such.
#25 Nov 05 2010 at 10:42 AM Rating: Good
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-growth formula can be bought from the alchemist guild for about 1.5K each.
-nugs of all sorts are made in 12s so just do a couple of synths and that is enough for a long time
-branches are easy to find cheap from players - they also stack to 99 - so you only need to do 1 botany run to last for a long time

The rest of my gear I generally just get repaired at the npc - armor doesn't break down very fast unless it is too high for your level. But even if I did want to repair it myself - most of the repair items can be bought from npc - and if you are leveling the crafts to repair your armor you should have TONS of the repair items just from skilling up - things like sheepskin straps, and hempen fent are things you would be making just to get skill ups
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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#26 Nov 05 2010 at 10:44 AM Rating: Good
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Seedling wrote:

figuring out WHAT piece of gear is damaged when you get a yellow/red warning is a quest in itself... easier to just let it all rot till something hits red, hit the naked-macro, then parse through all my gear while donning crafting tools.



THIS. I agree 100% with this. Also underwear should not degrade. Period. Either that or we should be able to take it off.
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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#27 Nov 05 2010 at 10:56 AM Rating: Decent
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This far in, the SP and Repair systems are responsible for more quitting players than anything else. People have soldiered through the wards, lag, and UI. They're now quitting over core game mechanics, and these are are easily the top 2 offenders. Shame SE seems oblivious, don't think they've ever recognized these as issues at all. Given their time table for fixing things, any kind of update is so far out, most people are just going to quit and never come back.
#28 Nov 05 2010 at 10:59 AM Rating: Decent
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Olorinus the Vile wrote:
-growth formula can be bought from the alchemist guild for about 1.5K each.
-nugs of all sorts are made in 12s so just do a couple of synths and that is enough for a long time
-branches are easy to find cheap from players - they also stack to 99 - so you only need to do 1 botany run to last for a long time

The rest of my gear I generally just get repaired at the npc - armor doesn't break down very fast unless it is too high for your level. But even if I did want to repair it myself - most of the repair items can be bought from npc - and if you are leveling the crafts to repair your armor you should have TONS of the repair items just from skilling up - things like sheepskin straps, and hempen fent are things you would be making just to get skill ups


1. Many items are only sold in 2 of the 3 starting cities so if you are in LL you cannot buy it from an NPC. Even then they cost for items to repair T1 gear from NPC items is greater than the leve rewards.

2. Finding anything specific in a bazaar is a pure luck game right now. Going to a specific ward is nothing more than an illusion of a higher chance to find an item as a short investigation will show that most of the bazaar items being sold have no relation to the ward they are in.

3. Either I can level crafting out of leves or sell the crystals to afford repairs and upgrades if I can find them. nothing else sells reliably and are essentially a waste of bazaar space since even if someone wants what you are selling and you have the lowest price it is pure luck that they check your bazaar before giving up and leaving the wards.

4. I should also note that a level 9 harpoon on a level 11 LNC went from repaired to worn in the time span of minutes before The Big Bang Theory started to gear damage before the end of CSI last night. During that time all I did was chain kill marmots (blue and green) for shards.
#29 Nov 05 2010 at 11:32 AM Rating: Decent
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RdeLeo wrote:
This is where being an organized and patience person comes in handy.

I've been playing the game as I think SE intended, I'm not rushing to the level cap as fast as possible, instead of that, I've been leveling all classes in a balanced way and keeping all of them at close range.

So, I have all crafts between 14 and 20, same as my PUG and THA, the rest of the war/magic classes, are a little lower than that, but I wont have any issues by the time I decide to use them, since I will be able to craft whatever I need for them. I've made almost all my equipment, tools and weapons, so I use things about same range of the class, not with as big difference between rank ranges, this way, I've been handling my own repairs, doing my own farming for repair items, and using the leves to keep the ranks balanced and the money flowing. (which I use for crystals and guild support)

There are still lots of things to learn and do in the game, so why rushing to rank 50? If you can't find someone to repair some equipment, go start playing other class, explore the world, talk to npc's, play around, etc, etc.


^QFT.
#30 Nov 05 2010 at 12:28 PM Rating: Good
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I'd say playing with heavy gear damage and refusing to repair your gear = players giving up. I see a lot of people doing that, myself included.
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#31 Nov 05 2010 at 12:32 PM Rating: Good
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It is weird because I am playing the same game as you guys and other than main hand tools I have never found repairing to be that big of a deal. Also when you can do 8 leves in one region (once you hit R23 and unlock R30 leves) - spend 1.5 hours and get more than 100K... I just don't buy that you can't afford to do repairs at NPC. Even my R20+ gear only costs 3-10K to repair for each piece. Lots of things cost less than 2K, trivial amounts of money.
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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#32 Nov 05 2010 at 12:46 PM Rating: Good
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Don't forget that you guys can buy multiple weapons. Personally I have 5 oak canes, a plumed pine crook (Or yew, I forget), in addition to 20 growth formula alphas and a dozen or two brass squares for repair. I can repair neither, but most often times you can just personally whisper the people around the repair npc, hand them the item needed to repair, and get it done with in less than five minutes.

I never actually go through them all in one sitting, but it decreases the rate I need to repair my gear significantly

Edited, Nov 5th 2010 2:48pm by Meowshi
#33 Nov 05 2010 at 12:57 PM Rating: Good
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RdeLeo wrote:
This is where being an organized and patience person comes in handy... I've been playing the game as I think SE intended.
This statement and mentality represents SE's greatest shortcoming: an inability or perhaps outright refusal to anticipate how players think, respond and react to game content.

Enjoyment is paramount. It doesn't matter what your vision or intent as a developer is; If people aren't having fun, if they aren't engaged and entertained, they're simply not going to play - period. Having a vision and intent for the game is fine but if SE can't make some allowances for players who don't fully buy into that vision to still be engaged and have fun then they should simply be prepared to lose them as paying customers, which I'm sure they are.

Besides, how organized can you possibly be without an inventory sorting feature?

Edited, Nov 5th 2010 6:58pm by Timorith
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#34 Nov 05 2010 at 12:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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Olorinus the Vile wrote:
It is weird because I am playing the same game as you guys and other than main hand tools I have never found repairing to be that big of a deal. Also when you can do 8 leves in one region (once you hit R23 and unlock R30 leves) - spend 1.5 hours and get more than 100K... I just don't buy that you can't afford to do repairs at NPC. Even my R20+ gear only costs 3-10K to repair for each piece. Lots of things cost less than 2K, trivial amounts of money.
Main hand tools are part of the larger issue. I've spent hours in cities shouting to repair my pine crook, and sometimes it takes days before I'll find someone to repair it. Sure I could go drop 12k at the NPC to repair it to 75% every 4 hours (which takes a lot time out from playing the game), but I feel like I'm wasting gil. Same for my armor. I don't even shout for armor/jewelery repairs. It's such a pain in the *** to get one weapon repaired, I don't even want to try repairing 11 pieces of gear. I would prefer the xp death penalty over gear repair.
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#35 Nov 05 2010 at 1:01 PM Rating: Decent
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Timorith wrote:

Enjoyment is paramount. It doesn't matter what your vision or intent as a developer is; If people aren't having fun, if they aren't engaged and entertained, they're simply not going to play - period. Having a vision and intent for the game is fine but if SE can't make some allowances for players who don't fully buy into that vision to still be engaged and have fun then they should simply be prepared to lose them as paying customers, which I'm sure they are.


I'm enjoying myself - so are tons of people who are playing the game right now rather than griping here. The game has problems, yeah - and yes even the repair system has problems - but people are DRASTICALLY over-stating those problems.
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#36 Nov 05 2010 at 1:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Corthaemus wrote:

Main hand tools are part of the larger issue. I've spent hours in cities shouting to repair my pine crook, and sometimes it takes days before I'll find someone to repair it. Sure I could go drop 12k at the NPC to repair it to 75% every 4 hours (which takes a lot time out from playing the game), but I feel like I'm wasting gil. Same for my armor. I don't even shout for armor/jewelery repairs. It's such a pain in the *** to get one weapon repaired, I don't even want to try repairing 11 pieces of gear. I would prefer the xp death penalty over gear repair.


Pine Crook needs a Beastkin Blood to repair, something used in one recipe, highly specialized. You're expecting a crafter to have something that nobody even bothers carrying, and usually vendors.

If you carried a dozen or so with you, I have no doubt in my mind that you can find a Rank 10 carpenter or whatever repairs it within a minute if you tried.
#37 Nov 05 2010 at 1:04 PM Rating: Good
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For me it's also not only about finding someone to repair, which at this point is easy, but the frequency at which items become damaged

#38 Nov 05 2010 at 1:11 PM Rating: Good
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Olorinus the Vile wrote:
It is weird because I am playing the same game as you guys and other than main hand tools I have never found repairing to be that big of a deal. Also when you can do 8 leves in one region (once you hit R23 and unlock R30 leves) - spend 1.5 hours and get more than 100K... I just don't buy that you can't afford to do repairs at NPC. Even my R20+ gear only costs 3-10K to repair for each piece. Lots of things cost less than 2K, trivial amounts of money.


The real question is, why would you even consider repairing at a NPC if your items are above Rank 10 to begin with when you can do it yourself a **** of alot cheaper and also repair them all the way too 100%?

People just want easy mode. Leave it as it is imho, its fine and is seriously not an issue as pointed out in many posts here.
#39 Nov 05 2010 at 1:24 PM Rating: Good
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I think SE made items degrade often to give crafters something to do, but from the sounds of it, most higher level crafters don't bother doing repairs. Some, not all of course, but some people want to make a full synth's profit out of the transaction for it to be worth their time.
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#40 Nov 05 2010 at 1:26 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
The real question is, why would you even consider repairing at a NPC if your items are above Rank 10 to begin with when you can do it yourself a **** of alot cheaper and also repair them all the way too 100%?


Because I don't want to level crafting, I don't want to level gathering, and I don't want to go on scavenger hunts for repair mats from NPC's or in the Market Wards. It's not enjoyable for me. Real life is full of plenty of bulls*#t I don't want to do, but I have to do it anyway. My gaming time shouldn't be.....

It's really a function of time. If you are the type of player that has tons of playtime, the time sink of running to and from town to repair, or scouring market wards, or leveling crafting is a non-factor. If you have limited playtime like me, you like to utilize that limited playtime by doing things you find enjoyable (adventuring) not doing stuff that feels like a 2nd job (crafting / gathering).
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#41 Nov 05 2010 at 1:40 PM Rating: Good
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Tebhi's tips for the craft-less player:

*Wear lower level gear - it doesn't cost as much to repair
*Wear cheap rings - replace when worn
*Carry multiple weapons - put worn weapons in your bazaar for repair
*Let armor wear down - it costs the same to repair an item regardless of how worn it is
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#42 Nov 05 2010 at 1:48 PM Rating: Good
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I agree this system could work if it was streamlined. I don't think the gil is an issue. I thinks is the you have to unequip gear to have it repaired. The person repairing it then has to go through a multi step, laggy menu process which typically results in the other person running away before the process if finished.

1. Let gear be repaired while its equipped (or just automate the unequiping when the crafter initiates the repair)
2. The repair materials should be more consistent. Just like IRL, you can repair lots of different metals with some standard weld material.
3. The entire process should be no more than 2 button clicks if you are already on the right Class to do the repair. If you have the repair material in your inventory, why force the crafter to select the mat? If you do not have the necessary repair mat, the game can tell you this when you initially click to do the repair.
4. Reduce the rate of degredation of weapons. Its way too fast. They want this to be a market driven game, but if you want to go soloing or farming for more than an hour or two you are forced to have the ability to repair your own weapon... or carry multiple weapons. Lame.

Streamline. Streamline. Streamline. so many things about this game would seem much better if they were streamlined.

Edited, Nov 5th 2010 2:52pm by Mithsavvy
#43 Nov 05 2010 at 2:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Tebhi's tips for the craft-less player:

*Wear lower level gear - it doesn't cost as much to repair
*Wear cheap rings - replace when worn
*Carry multiple weapons - put worn weapons in your bazaar for repair
*Let armor wear down - it costs the same to repair an item regardless of how worn it is


Great tips. I can't say enough about the multiple weapons thing. Level appropriate / lower-level gear is also great advice (although you should always be using level appropriate WEAPONS to maximize SP gains).

For casters in a party setting, as long as you have a decent mp pool and means by which to regenerate same, you should be able to spend most of your time casting and minimize your use of SD or PD (i.e. your "1" ability)

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#44 Nov 05 2010 at 2:07 PM Rating: Decent
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The repair system was the "straw that broke the camels back" for me. I probably could have stuck it out if it wasn't for this. It happens way too fast. I am a powergamer and with hardcore grinding I found myself having to run back for repairs every 2 hours or so. Considering I play 12+ hours a day that was 6 or more repair runs a day, every day. Wandering around town begging for repairs just is not fun, and more often than not I couldn't even find someone to repair my stuff.

So I tried to take up crafting and just do it myself. This was an exercise in insanity. I absolutely loathe crafting and this became a full time job just leveling crafts to support my playing. It started to feel like I had to level at least 3 crafts to 50 before I could even start enjoying the game. I love interacting with the community but I hate having to depend on it to even go solo grind.

I have played many mmo's with item degredation and repair systems of all types. This is the first one that actually felt like a hinderance.



Edited, Nov 5th 2010 4:10pm by Ezariel
#45 Nov 05 2010 at 2:49 PM Rating: Default
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Timorith wrote:


Besides, how organized can you possibly be without an inventory sorting feature?



Well, believe it or not, there are people (including myself) that have the ability to organize items without autosort, it just takes a little time, but it's not a skill that requires a master degree... is just that people are so acustomed to do everything with 1 click, which is not bad, but when you can't you just can find a work around solution.

And when you like something, you always try to find the ways to have fun with it.
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#46 Nov 05 2010 at 2:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Olorinus the Vile wrote:
It is weird because I am playing the same game as you guys and other than main hand tools I have never found repairing to be that big of a deal. Also when you can do 8 leves in one region (once you hit R23 and unlock R30 leves) - spend 1.5 hours and get more than 100K... I just don't buy that you can't afford to do repairs at NPC. Even my R20+ gear only costs 3-10K to repair for each piece. Lots of things cost less than 2K, trivial amounts of money.


R27 Bronze Haubergeon costs 50k to repair from 50% to 75%... I was so offended by that, I've never even check other mid rank items so maybe that's some sort of exception. Still, most R10 stuff I've check is 3-10k, so I'm not sure what you're repair "20+" that's so cheap

Olorinus the Vile wrote:
Timorith wrote:

Enjoyment is paramount. It doesn't matter what your vision or intent as a developer is; If people aren't having fun, if they aren't engaged and entertained, they're simply not going to play - period. Having a vision and intent for the game is fine but if SE can't make some allowances for players who don't fully buy into that vision to still be engaged and have fun then they should simply be prepared to lose them as paying customers, which I'm sure they are.


I'm enjoying myself - so are tons of people who are playing the game right now rather than griping here. The game has problems, yeah - and yes even the repair system has problems - but people are DRASTICALLY over-stating those problems.


There aren't even "tons" of people playing period, much less enjoying themselves. I would hazard a guess the majority are just soldiering through the issues for now, hoping for the miracle patch(s) that makes the game fun.
#47 Nov 05 2010 at 3:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Furia wrote:


R27 Bronze Haubergeon costs 50k to repair from 50% to 75%... I was so offended by that, I've never even check other mid rank items so maybe that's some sort of exception. Still, most R10 stuff I've check is 3-10k, so I'm not sure what you're repair "20+" that's so cheap



Bronze Haburgeon takes two bronze rings to repair, which costs less than 2k. You can get that repaired from a crafter for 5k very, very easily.

Similarly, I have rank 40+ gear, that I can get repaired for 5k-10k easily. If I go to the NPC, he will probably charge me 100k+. I haven't even asked him to repair it, ever.
#48 Nov 05 2010 at 3:42 PM Rating: Default
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Nobody has an excuse. This game, just like all MMO's is a COOPERATIVE game. I have ZERO issues with gear and repair.

A)I have built up enough cash to be able to afford an extra weapon or two to supplement long grinding sessions
B)I have found a great group of people to play with on Saronia, as a linkshell we act as a Co-Op, sharing and supporting one another. We have every main craft handled by 1 if not 2 members. I am the main support for all mining necessities (ores, sands, etc.) thus fulfilling my niche as well as the necessities of my fellow members. I also supply shards and crystals as I choose to not craft at this time.

Nobody has an excuse for not being able to get repairs or pay for repairs either
#49 Nov 05 2010 at 3:47 PM Rating: Default
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if you rank 10 and have rank 27 equip yeah your gonna repair more often. if you stil to items close to you rank you should be fine. even repairing level 30 equip you dont need a high level craft but you do have to be able to make the repair item.

well giving up you should cuz you just gonna be gimped when you hit cap anyways there alot of people balenced rank/phys meaning you gonna have very little stat points vs someone who levels more than one job, just like ffxi if you only level one job your not getting any endgame LS cuz your useless.

Quote:
I have played many mmo's with item degredation and repair systems of all types. This is the first one that actually felt like a hinderance.

you sure about that cuz other ones make you paymoney and thats the only way to fix them, ffxiv you can do it for free or pay. i rather do it for free

Edited, Nov 5th 2010 5:51pm by mitmystria
#50 Nov 05 2010 at 3:57 PM Rating: Good
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While I do like the idea of item repair, the system in FFXIV is far to convoluted and annoying. A few tweaks I'd like to see to the repair system would be:

1.) Lengthen the time it takes for certain items to degrade. Especially weapons.

2.) I'd rather use crystal shards than specific materials since inventory management is already a pain in the ***, but if materials are to be used, then a couple things should be adjusted.
a.) High Quality materials should be usable.
b.) Success rates on repairs should be 100%

3.) I'd like to see SP and EXP gained from repairs significantly increased to make it more worthwhile for crafters to spend time doing repairs for others.

4.) Pretty much everything Mithsavvy said:

Mithsavvy wrote:
I agree this system could work if it was streamlined. I don't think the gil is an issue. I thinks is the you have to unequip gear to have it repaired. The person repairing it then has to go through a multi step, laggy menu process which typically results in the other person running away before the process if finished.

1. Let gear be repaired while its equipped (or just automate the unequiping when the crafter initiates the repair)
2. The repair materials should be more consistent. Just like IRL, you can repair lots of different metals with some standard weld material.
3. The entire process should be no more than 2 button clicks if you are already on the right Class to do the repair. If you have the repair material in your inventory, why force the crafter to select the mat? If you do not have the necessary repair mat, the game can tell you this when you initially click to do the repair.
4. Reduce the rate of degredation of weapons. Its way too fast. They want this to be a market driven game, but if you want to go soloing or farming for more than an hour or two you are forced to have the ability to repair your own weapon... or carry multiple weapons. Lame.

Streamline. Streamline. Streamline. so many things about this game would seem much better if they were streamlined

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#51 Nov 05 2010 at 6:40 PM Rating: Decent
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mitmystria wrote:
you sure about that cuz other ones make you paymoney and thats the only way to fix them, ffxiv you can do it for free or pay. i rather do it for free
Edited, Nov 5th 2010 5:51pm by mitmystria


Absolutely sure. In other games the cost is balanced correctly to provide a deterrent to acting carelessly but not so costly that it will make you broke even if you don't die. You'll understand when you go to repair a full set of 35+ level gear and it costs you 200k or more at the npc. It's so expensive that it becomes not even an option at later levels.

It got to the point where if I didn't find people to repair my stuff for a day, I would pay over a million gil for that day just to play without dying.

Edited, Nov 5th 2010 8:47pm by Ezariel
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