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Repairing self = Players giving upFollow

#52 Nov 05 2010 at 7:55 PM Rating: Decent
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I think that the primary difficulty with the repair system is that it's a controversial system to begin with regardless of which game you're referring to. If it's done right, players see it as a necessary evil but it rarely becomes obtrusive. If done the way it's done in XIV, it becomes far too much of a consideration for day to day gameplay.

I think that SE needs to rethink their notion that there's anything they can do that will make any level of reliance on repairs from players (self or others) something that players are going to tolerate. The reliance adds nothing to the game. I'd rather see them cut durability decay rates and the NPC repair cost by 75%, increase the result from NPC repairs to 100% durability, and then tweak the crafter repair options to be a perk and not something players see as the only way to really go about getting their gear fixed. Options to do that would include vastly streamlining the repair UI, increasing the yield of repair materials, and fully eliminating the option to fail a repair attempt.

That way, players who can't find or can't be bothered to find someone to repair their gear don't feel that their time/gil are being wasted at the repair NPC and there is still incentive to repair your own gear because repair mats are available in abundance, the process is quick and easy and it's still cheaper than paying the NPC to do it for you.

And if SE could manage all of that and decide to balance the changes by introducing durability loss as a penalty for dying, I wouldn't mind. If repairing your gear is neither excessively expensive nor excessively time consuming/frustrating, having to repair sooner than you might have liked because you got roflstomped a few times in your SP party wouldn't be all that horrible. And it would certainly be better than what we have now.
#53 Nov 06 2010 at 1:29 AM Rating: Decent
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Meowshi wrote:
Furia wrote:


R27 Bronze Haubergeon costs 50k to repair from 50% to 75%... I was so offended by that, I've never even check other mid rank items so maybe that's some sort of exception. Still, most R10 stuff I've check is 3-10k, so I'm not sure what you're repair "20+" that's so cheap



Bronze Haburgeon takes two bronze rings to repair, which costs less than 2k. You can get that repaired from a crafter for 5k very, very easily.

Similarly, I have rank 40+ gear, that I can get repaired for 5k-10k easily. If I go to the NPC, he will probably charge me 100k+. I haven't even asked him to repair it, ever.


That was a direct response to: "I just don't buy that you can't afford to do repairs at NPC. Even my R20+ gear only costs 3-10K to repair for each piece. Lots of things cost less than 2K, trivial amounts of money."]
#54 Nov 06 2010 at 10:37 AM Rating: Good
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This is my idea of improving the system

1) allowing an AH system where a player is allow to 'place' his item asking for repair.

2) crafters will be able to browse through the items and repair the item for a reward of both gils (provided by the player) and skill points.

3) the player can pick up his item once its repaired

4) a player is only allowed to place 8 items for repair at any one time

5) a crafter is only able to make 10 repairs a day.
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#55 Nov 06 2010 at 5:26 PM Rating: Good
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I would not mind the repairing so much, I guess, if it made any sense. I have a Rank 1 tool belt that requires a repair with a part that a Rank 21 Leatherworker has to make. Yes, I can buy the part for 1600 Gil, but only one NPC sells it and honestly, I do not want to have to carry it around in my inventory all the time taking up space that I could fill up with grinding Mats. Not to mention that so far only one Mob seems to drop the base part and it is a Level 17, something I cannot yet take on.

Not to drag WoW into this, but at least it shows you what is damaged with an Icon of small figure and the parts are yellow or red depending on the damage. And if you went to get things repaired by a NPC, they repaired all items to 100%, but maybe that was only because I have low level gear.
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#56 Nov 06 2010 at 6:32 PM Rating: Good
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Aurelius wrote:
I think that the primary difficulty with the repair system is that it's a controversial system to begin with regardless of which game you're referring to. If it's done right, players see it as a necessary evil but it rarely becomes obtrusive. If done the way it's done in XIV, it becomes far too much of a consideration for day to day gameplay.

I think that SE needs to rethink their notion that there's anything they can do that will make any level of reliance on repairs from players (self or others) something that players are going to tolerate. The reliance adds nothing to the game. I'd rather see them cut durability decay rates and the NPC repair cost by 75%, increase the result from NPC repairs to 100% durability, and then tweak the crafter repair options to be a perk and not something players see as the only way to really go about getting their gear fixed. Options to do that would include vastly streamlining the repair UI, increasing the yield of repair materials, and fully eliminating the option to fail a repair attempt.

That way, players who can't find or can't be bothered to find someone to repair their gear don't feel that their time/gil are being wasted at the repair NPC and there is still incentive to repair your own gear because repair mats are available in abundance, the process is quick and easy and it's still cheaper than paying the NPC to do it for you.

And if SE could manage all of that and decide to balance the changes by introducing durability loss as a penalty for dying, I wouldn't mind. If repairing your gear is neither excessively expensive nor excessively time consuming/frustrating, having to repair sooner than you might have liked because you got roflstomped a few times in your SP party wouldn't be all that horrible. And it would certainly be better than what we have now.



You hit the nail on the head, its just too inconvenient. I don't mind if we need crafter made items to repair, but I'd like the option to give those to the NPC in exchange for a 100% repair.

Also maybe add repair dudes to camps.
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#57 Nov 06 2010 at 9:15 PM Rating: Decent
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Corthaemus wrote:
Olorinus the Vile wrote:
It is weird because I am playing the same game as you guys and other than main hand tools I have never found repairing to be that big of a deal. Also when you can do 8 leves in one region (once you hit R23 and unlock R30 leves) - spend 1.5 hours and get more than 100K... I just don't buy that you can't afford to do repairs at NPC. Even my R20+ gear only costs 3-10K to repair for each piece. Lots of things cost less than 2K, trivial amounts of money.
Main hand tools are part of the larger issue. I've spent hours in cities shouting to repair my pine crook, and sometimes it takes days before I'll find someone to repair it. Sure I could go drop 12k at the NPC to repair it to 75% every 4 hours (which takes a lot time out from playing the game), but I feel like I'm wasting gil. Same for my armor. I don't even shout for armor/jewelery repairs. It's such a pain in the *** to get one weapon repaired, I don't even want to try repairing 11 pieces of gear. I would prefer the xp death penalty over gear repair.


If you bought some beast blood and kept it on you it is hard to believe you couldn't ask for a carpenter at the repair npc who would be happy to do it if you gave them the item and 4K. I am high enough carpenter to do it (R16) and I would certainly do it for that. I also use a pine crook and so I carry the item on me. If you offered 10K I would probably do it with my own item.

If you are offering people 2K to do a repair that costs 12K at the NPC and requires a slightly out-of-the-way item that can't be bought from NPC or crafted (out of easy to find mats) - yeah - it will take you days to get a repair. If you offer a fair deal you won't have half the trouble.

That said - this game does require you to spend some time crafting. If you are serious about being a conjurer you should look long and hard at becoming a carpenter. Nothing beats being able to repair your own main hand weapon. I have been slow to learn the skills to repair my armor (cause one can only do so much and it doesn't wear out as fast) but I make darn sure that I raise my crafting skills to match my combat tools.

Also try asking in your party - chances are someone will be able to repair you. Again - carry your repair item - it will drastically improve your chances of getting a repair. Also - be sensible in your weapon choices - consider things like "is the repair item expensive or difficult to find?" or "do I have the crafting skill to repair this? Do I have friends that can repair this?"

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When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#58 Nov 06 2010 at 9:18 PM Rating: Decent
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FFSeij wrote:
While I do like the idea of item repair, the system in FFXIV is far to convoluted and annoying. A few tweaks I'd like to see to the repair system would be:

1.) Lengthen the time it takes for certain items to degrade. Especially weapons.

2.) I'd rather use crystal shards than specific materials since inventory management is already a pain in the ***, but if materials are to be used, then a couple things should be adjusted.
a.) High Quality materials should be usable.
b.) Success rates on repairs should be 100%

3.) I'd like to see SP and EXP gained from repairs significantly increased to make it more worthwhile for crafters to spend time doing repairs for others.

4.) Pretty much everything Mithsavvy said:

Mithsavvy wrote:
I agree this system could work if it was streamlined. I don't think the gil is an issue. I thinks is the you have to unequip gear to have it repaired. The person repairing it then has to go through a multi step, laggy menu process which typically results in the other person running away before the process if finished.

1. Let gear be repaired while its equipped (or just automate the unequiping when the crafter initiates the repair)
2. The repair materials should be more consistent. Just like IRL, you can repair lots of different metals with some standard weld material.
3. The entire process should be no more than 2 button clicks if you are already on the right Class to do the repair. If you have the repair material in your inventory, why force the crafter to select the mat? If you do not have the necessary repair mat, the game can tell you this when you initially click to do the repair.
4. Reduce the rate of degredation of weapons. Its way too fast. They want this to be a market driven game, but if you want to go soloing or farming for more than an hour or two you are forced to have the ability to repair your own weapon... or carry multiple weapons. Lame.

Streamline. Streamline. Streamline. so many things about this game would seem much better if they were streamlined



QFT. Good suggestions.
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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#59 Nov 06 2010 at 9:38 PM Rating: Decent
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tmproff wrote:
Most of the time people are complaining about their weapons degrating too fast is because they're 10 levels below the optimum level. If you use equipment at or near your character's level, you will only have to repair your equipment every other day or so. For example. I'm an archer level 21. I used the maple longbow up till about 16 (it's optimal level is 8). At that time, I only needed to repair it once a week. When I switched to the Plumed Willow Shortbow (optimum level 21), I was having to repair my bow every few hours. Now that I'm level 21, I have to repair it maybe once a day when grinding.

My Advice, swallow your pride and use lower equipment or accept the fact that by using higher level equip, you're going to pay the price.

I have been using Budding willow wand Since rank 27, i am currently Rank 35, i have 6 BWW 2 Walnut wands r37 and 1 WWOF rank 32, everyday i grind, everyday all of these weapons need repaired. with exception of walnut wands i only use in case all other weapons are broken. so you are wrong about the every other day or so, unless you play an hour a day , but from your post i think not. so either a. its a conjurer thing, or b. your exaggerating.

Lukky wrote:
Tebhi's tips for the craft-less player:

*Wear lower level gear - it doesn't cost as much to repair
*Wear cheap rings - replace when worn
*Carry multiple weapons - put worn weapons in your bazaar for repair
*Let armor wear down - it costs the same to repair an item regardless of how worn it is


This is very good advice, i carry many weapons out on my daily grind, and find that broken gears are much less significant than broken Weapons are. when i come back from a grind i go to Uldah (imho its the place to be) stand by repair npc gogorano lalafell guy, do a shout "carpenter R17+ can you repair it? bazaar please check it @ Gogorano
sometimes it works sometimes it takes an hour before i get a crafter to bite. i also provide the materials needed to repair my items (you cant expect everyone to have repair mats for every item made by their craft can you? YG FFXIVpro can help u find the repair mats you need anyway) so that the process is quick and i can worry about one less thing. (you know like how am i going to get back to my grind spots without anima, or when am i going to find the time to do leves if all i want to do is get levels, or what can i tell my friend to make him not quit the game.)
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#60 Nov 06 2010 at 9:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Part of the problem is you are R35 - the items you are using are going to be harder to repair by the vast majority of the player base. I keep my main craft at the same level-ish as my main battle skill - and my secondary craft is higher than my secondary battle skill.

If instead of trying to fling yourself to cap ahead of the community you focussed on building a more rounded character, you wouldn't have so much trouble getting repairs and you wouldn't have to pay so much - but yeah if your items need R22+ crafters to even attempt to repair - or they use hard to find materials such as growth formula gamma, you will have trouble getting repairs.

Instead of getting frustrated why not work up your other jobs to make your main job easier to play?

I am R22 CON and I only carry 1 weapon into the field because I can do my own repairs. I plan on leveling my carpentry before I level my conjurer ahead of my weapon.

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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#61 Nov 06 2010 at 10:01 PM Rating: Decent
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Olorinus the Vile wrote:
If instead of trying to fling yourself to cap ahead of the community you focussed on building a more rounded character, you wouldn't have so much trouble getting repairs and you wouldn't have to pay so much - but yeah if your items need R22+ crafters to even attempt to repair - or they use hard to find materials such as growth formula gamma, you will have trouble getting repairs.


I realize you have no interest in anyone else's views and experiences from you posts, but you do realize you are suggesting that everyone levels every job to maintain their gear, right? Do you understand that if everyone can level all crafts to cap and can be entirely self dependent (if they choose) then there cannot be a functional in game economy?

Before you post again telling everyone else they are doing it wrong then you might want to consider if you really want a game using this repair ruleset. I would explain the ramifications to allowing a completely self sufficient player in an MMO economy, but I don't see the point of wasting the effort so I will sum up your solution...

Everyone become self sufficient in order to circumvent the broken repair mechanic in the short term to eliminate the in game economy in the long term. Cutting off your nose in spite of your face isn't exactly a proper solution now is it?

Edited, Nov 7th 2010 12:06am by Pocketed
#62 Nov 06 2010 at 10:07 PM Rating: Decent
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Pocketed wrote:
Olorinus the Vile wrote:
If instead of trying to fling yourself to cap ahead of the community you focussed on building a more rounded character, you wouldn't have so much trouble getting repairs and you wouldn't have to pay so much - but yeah if your items need R22+ crafters to even attempt to repair - or they use hard to find materials such as growth formula gamma, you will have trouble getting repairs.


I realize you have no interest in anyone else's views and experiences from you posts, but you do realize you are suggesting that everyone levels every job to maintain their gear. Do you understand that if everyone can level all crafts to cap and can be entirely self dependent (if they choose) then cannot be a functional in game economy?

Before you post again telling everyone else they are doing it wrong then you might want to consider if you really want a game using this repair ruleset. I would explain the ramifications to allowing a completely self sufficient player in an MMO economy, but I don't see the point of wasting the effort.


I'm not saying people should be self sufficient in everything - I am saying that at the moment rushing to cap is going to make the game a heck of a lot harder than it has to be. The person I was responding to is mind R30+ with a combat job. The vast majority of the community has not gotten high enough to support them. If they have to carry 8 weapons to exp. maybe they should take a step back and examine if refusing to level any crafting jobs at all - let alone 1 to repair their main weapon (conjurers are lucky - if they level alchemy and carpentry they should never have too much trouble with weapons) is actually MORE EFFICIENT than taking some time out and leveling a craft to fix their weapon.

In the long term if people want to start by leveling 1 single job all the way to cap there are going to be crafters of every type at every level able to support them in that. Right now people who get ahead of the bell curve, as it were, are going to suffer some pretty heavy consequences when it comes to buying gear and getting repairs. I am actually trying to be helpful by suggesting they take three to four nights of grind time (at the rate they must be going) and level carpenter to 20 and alchemist to 10.

Edited, Nov 6th 2010 9:08pm by Olorinus
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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#63 Nov 06 2010 at 10:17 PM Rating: Good
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Not everyone enjoys crafting, and it takes a very significant time investment to get 20 crafting. Most people call doing things we don't enjoy or have to do, work. I thought this was a game not a job...
#64 Nov 06 2010 at 10:19 PM Rating: Good
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It isn't a standard deviation bell curve actually.

Entire tiers of gear are skipped due to interdependencies even though higher tier gear is easier to make. Higher tier gear means higher cost repairs as well as lack of people to repair the item. It also means some of the repair components are not even being made regularly by anyone.
#65 Nov 06 2010 at 10:30 PM Rating: Decent
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Pocketed wrote:
It isn't a standard deviation bell curve actually.

Entire tiers of gear are skipped due to interdependencies even though higher tier gear is easier to make. Higher tier gear means higher cost repairs as well as lack of people to repair the item. It also means some of the repair components are not even being made regularly by anyone.


Again, as someone who is ranking up a lot of jobs at once, I am benefiting from not moving too far ahead. My botanist and miner jobs are only R11 - plumed bronze picks and plumed bronze hatchets are getting pretty common now. The same goes for puglist weapons. The bone hora used to go for outrageous prices - now you see them all the time for 5K. I can make them for 3K.

So yeah - some people skipped ahead and made iron picks before plumed bronze picks... but as a player I was smart enough to stick with my bronze pick (that I can repair myself) and wait for the next proper ranked items to come out in a way as to be reasonably priced.

I am currently PL33 - I don't play as much as the R35 person who is upset about repairs - but if I had played all the time on conjurer yeah I would be a higher rank - but I am BENEFITING from spreading my time out on different jobs. It is the rush ahead that really nails a person when it comes to gear and repairs. Folks like me in the low 20s for our "high" jobs don't have nearly the same problems - and if we keep our ranks spread out and grow together with the rest of the main part of the base - the game is going to be easier - period.

For someone that doesn't have as much time - say in the time I've gotten two jobs to the 20s they have gotten only 1 job to 19 - they also benefit because the gear they need has fallen in price from competition, and there are a lot of people with crafts around level 10 or 12 (so able to repair their gear).
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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#66 Nov 06 2010 at 11:32 PM Rating: Decent
Khornette wrote:
All I ever did:

1. Put items needed repair onto my own Bazaar (NOT the retainer).
2. Walk to repair NPC.
3. /s (Crafter Class)(Repair)(Can I have it?)(Please Assist)
4. ????
5. Profit!

Seriously, that took 2 minutes. Sure it's long, but why people just stay there silently and hoping to get someone notice their items needed repair for who know how long, when all you need to do is ask? Even had a time when 4 people come to repair all 4 items I put on Bazaar at once right after I asked >_>


Ive tried this early on before and only sometimes there is someone who can repair it only if they feel enough to bother and providing they (seeker or crafter) have the correct materials to do so (and this is just for 1 weapon we are talking about among everything else needed to be repaired).
Most importantly, this is only good for when your in (or fairly near) a city so what do you do when you are far out somewhere farming?
This made me level up the crafting classes needed to do my own repairs which is still a pain in the *** plus i have to either carry the many repair materials with me in a nearly always full un-sortable inventory or retainer.

It can be very easy for the non craft class player to seek repairs but it's a huge pain in the *** for the rest.

Have you noticed that many crafters are now hiding themselves from the solicitors?

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#67 Nov 07 2010 at 12:05 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
If instead of trying to fling yourself to cap ahead of the community you focussed on building a more rounded character, you wouldn't have so much trouble getting repairs and you wouldn't have to pay so much - but yeah if your items need R22+ crafters to even attempt to repair - or they use hard to find materials such as growth formula gamma, you will have trouble getting repairs.

Instead of getting frustrated why not work up your other jobs to make your main job easier to play?


Simplest reason, because nobody should have to. If one classes progress is hindered by not having easy access to another, its a crappy system. Its basically the same thing as way back when no party would leave jeuno without a bard or RDM for refresh, there wern't enough to go around and everyone hated it. And we were told this wouldn't be an issue again. SE didn't realize we were getting the same problem from a different angle this time.
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#68 Nov 07 2010 at 1:35 AM Rating: Decent
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KujaKoF wrote:
Quote:
If instead of trying to fling yourself to cap ahead of the community you focussed on building a more rounded character, you wouldn't have so much trouble getting repairs and you wouldn't have to pay so much - but yeah if your items need R22+ crafters to even attempt to repair - or they use hard to find materials such as growth formula gamma, you will have trouble getting repairs.

Instead of getting frustrated why not work up your other jobs to make your main job easier to play?


Simplest reason, because nobody should have to. If one classes progress is hindered by not having easy access to another, its a crappy system. Its basically the same thing as way back when no party would leave jeuno without a bard or RDM for refresh, there wern't enough to go around and everyone hated it. And we were told this wouldn't be an issue again. SE didn't realize we were getting the same problem from a different angle this time.


Devil's advocate stuff here, but did you say the same thing about the subjob system in XI? Because as I recall, the devs told us from the beginning when they were dropping hints about the armory system that the subjob system in XI was something that everyone seemed to like so they were planning on expanding on the concept. And that expansion not only influences what you can do with your preferred combat class when you rank up other combat classes and borrow their abilities, but also your gaming experience when you rank up a crafting class or two.

Personally, having followed the game from the time it was officially announced I'm not the least bit surprised that repairs have turned into such an awful mess. As soon as SE mentioned that gear would have durability and crafters would be able to repair it, I knew it was going to be a typical SE mess of tedious nonsense that we're supposed to find rewarding and fulfilling because we all just log in with the first thought on our mind being to serve the community....

And that's part of the reason I took up crafting starting in the open beta and continuing into official service. Sometimes I enjoy it. Sometimes I find it to be a tedious, frustrating chore. I only did 2 local leves this past reset. The thought of doing more made me want to log out. Other days I do all 8 back to back and I'm fine with it. And there's not a single piece of gear on my character from armor to weapons to tools that I can't repair myself.

Obviously based on my previous post in this thread I'm not a supporter of repairs as they currently exist. I think it's another case of SE entirely missing the point. But at the same time, I'm not lamenting what I should or shouldn't have to do in order to create a well rounded character that can bypass a lot of the crap so many others seem to be subjecting themselves to. Yes, I often dislike crafting...but I'd dislike having to spend a fortune or waste a ton of time trying to find a player to repair my gear even more.

If SE had done a better job and had a better understanding of what the "global" market truly finds entertaining and "rewarding", we wouldn't have to choose between the lesser of two evils. But right now, we do. And not directed specifically at you KujoKoF but others in this thread, I really wish people would stop flinging their angst at other players/posters just because they reinforce a truth that others don't want to hear. Positioning yourself to repair your own gear does make the repair concept as it is currently implemented a lot less of a burden. It still sucks, it still takes away from the game more than it should ever have been allowed to do, but it is what it is.
#69 Nov 07 2010 at 1:45 AM Rating: Good
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I think even the few folks that enjoy and defend the repair system can agree it is clearly NOT a mechanic the mainstream (i.e. vast majority) is going to like. I mean it's really grade school common sense, you have to be totally out of touch with reality to consider a system like this a good idea. The same can be said for many aspects of the game. It's really not so much the game was released unfinished, it's that it seems to have been designed in a bubble by some extremely weird individuals who have no idea how the population at large thinks or feels.
#70 Nov 07 2010 at 4:42 AM Rating: Decent
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From reading all these posts, the general argument is from the players who just want to rush to 50.

Facts that support this:
"I don't want to repair"
"I don't want to craft"
"I don't want to gather"
"I already work a full time job" <---The biggest bs card that anyone in todays gaming generation can try and pull.
"I just want to do 8 Battlecraft Leve's every 36 hours......"

So because these types of players are only experiencing 20% of the game, the only thing to do is rush to 50.

The problem here is, the amount of Gil you can make from the Local Leve's is pretty impressive, your missing out on a huge amount of reoccuring income that could easily and potentialy support your repairs.

As we all know, people enjoy throwing around the casual gaming card, work, social lives, famalies etc etc. Well, if you plan to do nothing but play casually and do 16 Leve's every 36 hours, you will easily make enough Gil to support anything you wish to do. Not too mention, that alot of the rewards give you the items you need to repair your gear so you don't even need to do gathering if you don't want too. Lets also not forget that by increasing your own crafting rank, your fully able to repair your own gear!!!!!

The time it takes to do all 16 leve's can easily be accomplished in one so called casual sitting. If your only doing Battlecraft Leve's, well, 1 hour later and your done. So what do these so called casual players do after there is no more leve's to do?
#71 Nov 07 2010 at 4:47 AM Rating: Decent
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Taemek wrote:


Facts that support this:
"I don't want to repair"
"I don't want to craft"
"I don't want to gather"
"I already work a full time job" <---The biggest bs card that anyone in todays gaming generation can try and pull.
"I just want to do 8 Battlecraft Leve's every 36 hours......"


You forgot to mention the "Repair and durability system is so unrealistic"

Lets put in real life and be realistic: Try to use a chainmail or any clothes and got into a fight and see if you wont need repairs or a new one... :P
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#72 Nov 07 2010 at 9:34 AM Rating: Good
Taemek wrote:
From reading all these posts, the general argument is from the players who just want to rush to 50.

Facts that support this:
"I don't want to repair"
"I don't want to craft"
"I don't want to gather"
"I already work a full time job" <---The biggest bs card that anyone in todays gaming generation can try and pull.
"I just want to do 8 Battlecraft Leve's every 36 hours......"

So because these types of players are only experiencing 20% of the game, the only thing to do is rush to 50.

The problem here is, the amount of Gil you can make from the Local Leve's is pretty impressive, your missing out on a huge amount of reoccuring income that could easily and potentialy support your repairs.

As we all know, people enjoy throwing around the casual gaming card, work, social lives, famalies etc etc. Well, if you plan to do nothing but play casually and do 16 Leve's every 36 hours, you will easily make enough Gil to support anything you wish to do. Not too mention, that alot of the rewards give you the items you need to repair your gear so you don't even need to do gathering if you don't want too. Lets also not forget that by increasing your own crafting rank, your fully able to repair your own gear!!!!!

The time it takes to do all 16 leve's can easily be accomplished in one so called casual sitting. If your only doing Battlecraft Leve's, well, 1 hour later and your done. So what do these so called casual players do after there is no more leve's to do?

Im sorry but this has to be the worst general summary ive read yet.
Yes there are those who want to just skip everything and grind all the way to 50 but do you believe it really is like that in general?

Just take a walk around the game and target some players and see how many have that annoying equip ware icon on them.
Whether it sounds dumb or not, most (should be all) people have limited amount of time to dedicate to a game so throwing a casual gaming card is just normal regardless the player's disposition on how they choose to play their game.
Not to mention you're assuming one must casually also do the other non battlecraft leves so one wouldn't really have a choice to employ just 1 class instead of 10.

The problem isn't really the Gil or can't repair thing. Thats just a small part of it.
Problem is that it's a pain in the *** and a huge drag to the point where it becomes almost pointless.
I use to seek repairs but now i can repair and make most of my own stuff but it still seems very pointless.
Now i have to farm and carry/store the materials for my 10 classes only to have something wear out in 1 hour and wait until it turns red.

So i guess you're right on one account about the "I don't want to repair" thing.
No, i don't want to repair anything every **** hour.

SE really needs to extend this to at least a week or get rid of it altogether.


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#73 Nov 07 2010 at 9:56 AM Rating: Decent
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There are alot of people who don't use anything they can't repair. I am not one of those people. I do not craft. I do leves and grind and than I sell everything in order to pay for my repairs and new gear. I carry three different weapons so I can go without repairing for quite some time. FFXIV is much better than FFXI in that you can make alot of gil by ONLY doing guildleves and xp'n. My bank account usually hovers around the one million gil mark with minimal effort.
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#74 Nov 07 2010 at 10:30 AM Rating: Decent
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Aurelius wrote:


Obviously based on my previous post in this thread I'm not a supporter of repairs as they currently exist. I think it's another case of SE entirely missing the point. But at the same time, I'm not lamenting what I should or shouldn't have to do in order to create a well rounded character that can bypass a lot of the crap so many others seem to be subjecting themselves to. Yes, I often dislike crafting...but I'd dislike having to spend a fortune or waste a ton of time trying to find a player to repair my gear even more.

If SE had done a better job and had a better understanding of what the "global" market truly finds entertaining and "rewarding", we wouldn't have to choose between the lesser of two evils. But right now, we do. And not directed specifically at you KujoKoF but others in this thread, I really wish people would stop flinging their angst at other players/posters just because they reinforce a truth that others don't want to hear. Positioning yourself to repair your own gear does make the repair concept as it is currently implemented a lot less of a burden. It still sucks, it still takes away from the game more than it should ever have been allowed to do, but it is what it is.


Thanks - you pretty much articulated what I was trying to say. I agree the repair system is messed up (durability goes down too fast, there should only be a few repair items at each tier not brass nugget, brass square, brass plate - just ONE of those THANKS - etc)

However - ranking up a crafting class is way less irritating than having to rely on others for repair. It also helps because you can "trade" repairs with people who have different crafting classes.
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#75 Nov 07 2010 at 10:35 AM Rating: Decent
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Actually I dread switching to DoW class, because I know even though my weapons are just about optimal rank, I'm going to have to repair them mid-SP grind or after 5-6 leves. When I say weapons, I mean plural. I have to actually bring two weapons as GLD, to make it through a SP party. If I couldn't repair my shield myself, I'd need two of those as well.
It feels like I'm being penalized for playing my job, tbh.
It's just ridiculous.
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#76 Nov 07 2010 at 11:05 AM Rating: Excellent
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Restyoneck wrote:
It feels like I'm being penalized for playing my job, tbh.It's just ridiculous.


Regardless of the argument presented, I think this is the core problem that most who are against it are feeling.

In most other MMO's item degredation/repairs are used as a penalty for playing badly. Supposedly this system was put in place to encourage us to interact with the community. If that is the truth of the matter, in my opinion it fails. Do you really have a conversation and get to know that crafter that repaired your weapon? I suspect that most people are chomping at the bit to go adventure after searching for hours for someone willing and able to repair what they need and get back to what they actually wanted to do ASAP.

If they wanted to encourage community interaction with this system there needed to be mechanisms in place to make it quick and painless. Global chat channels, icons for people seeking repairs, better rewards for crafters doing repairs, etc... But none of this exists. In it's current implementation it does nothing to encourage interaction, it only penalizes you for actually playing the game. Not playing badly as mentioned above, for actually playing. You can be the greatest player on your server and still need repairs just as often as the worst. Possibly even more often as most likely you play a lot.

It becomes far too much of a burden at higher levels. Either they need to take a look at what other MMO's are doing and build something along the same lines, or scrap the system altogether.
#77 Nov 07 2010 at 11:17 AM Rating: Decent
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The only problem I found with the repair system is the underwears.

Its fine if law forbids me running around in public without underwear but what the **** why wood logs can put into a stack but undies can't.
#78 Nov 07 2010 at 4:02 PM Rating: Good
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Olorinus the Vile wrote:
Part of the problem is you are R35 - the items you are using are going to be harder to repair by the vast majority of the player base. I keep my main craft at the same level-ish as my main battle skill - and my secondary craft is higher than my secondary battle skill.

If instead of trying to fling yourself to cap ahead of the community you focussed on building a more rounded character, you wouldn't have so much trouble getting repairs and you wouldn't have to pay so much - but yeah if your items need R22+ crafters to even attempt to repair - or they use hard to find materials such as growth formula gamma, you will have trouble getting repairs.

Instead of getting frustrated why not work up your other jobs to make your main job easier to play?

I am R22 CON and I only carry 1 weapon into the field because I can do my own repairs. I plan on leveling my carpentry before I level my conjurer ahead of my weapon.


Ok, I must not have made it clear. i dont have a problem. i make contacts with carpenters and we stay in contact. i have at least 3 i can rely on at the times i play, i give them mats to repair my items, i even give the mats they need and i would otherwise npc. provided the materials they need (crystals and shards included) isnt hard for me, as i have over 1k most shards and 100 of most crystals. And just as a point of fact, i have weaver and goldsmith leveled because sometimes grinding just gets boring, but REALLY, not as boring as craftin is to a player who just wants to kill things and get stronger. I dont get frustrated with my broken weapons. i get frustrated when i cant get the top of the bottom of the barrel.
Taemek wrote:
From reading all these posts, the general argument is from the players who just want to rush to 50.

Facts that support this:
"I don't want to repair"
"I don't want to craft"
"I don't want to gather"
"I already work a full time job" <---The biggest bs card that anyone in todays gaming generation can try and pull.
"I just want to do 8 Battlecraft Leve's every 36 hours......"

So because these types of players are only experiencing 20% of the game, the only thing to do is rush to 50.

The problem here is, the amount of Gil you can make from the Local Leve's is pretty impressive, your missing out on a huge amount of reoccuring income that could easily and potentialy support your repairs.

As we all know, people enjoy throwing around the casual gaming card, work, social lives, famalies etc etc. Well, if you plan to do nothing but play casually and do 16 Leve's every 36 hours, you will easily make enough Gil to support anything you wish to do. Not too mention, that alot of the rewards give you the items you need to repair your gear so you don't even need to do gathering if you don't want too. Lets also not forget that by increasing your own crafting rank, your fully able to repair your own gear!!!!!

The time it takes to do all 16 leve's can easily be accomplished in one so called casual sitting. If your only doing Battlecraft Leve's, well, 1 hour later and your done. So what do these so called casual players do after there is no more leve's to do?

First of all i'm not Rushing to any cap i have a laid out plan on leveling jobs, to gain abilities to make my character better in combat. Keyword is Combat. Not worker bee. If you think that you can crank out 8 leves at rank 20+ in an hour you are playing a different game than i am. another thing if im going to chase around the leves that offer the decent gil, and im talkin about 20-30K+ then i need the anima to teleport around all the 3 cities and their camps, other wise im lookin at another couple hours to travel and a tops of 100k for that leve reset. not a lot of gil imho. Try to have a little experience before talkin about things you don't know about. I know this isnt FFXI, because i was never forced to say i need to find someone to fix this for me, or im gunna have to spend a week leveling jobs i dont want or care for.




edit: underwear should be indestructible!

Edited, Nov 7th 2010 5:04pm by TnelisPotencia
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#79 Nov 07 2010 at 4:19 PM Rating: Decent
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Am I correct in saying that you guys think you have to repair your stuff the moment it blinks on your buff bar that its damaged?

The decrease in stat benefit from gear degregation is so minimal until <40% that you hardly need to do it every hour. More like once a day *IF* that for armor, maybe twice for a weapon.....

It's seriously not an issue guys, your making a mountain out of a ant hill.

Play smart, repair your own items with rewards you get from Leve's that you do to rank up your craft to assist yourselves in repairing your gear.

The gear you can't repair, set up on your bazaar while you know, your asleep at night and stand around the repair NPC. I guarantee every day you will be 100% fully repaired.

(Waits for a reply about peoples electricity bills being 200% more a month due to leaving thier systems running at night........)

Edited, Nov 7th 2010 5:20pm by Taemek
#80 Nov 07 2010 at 4:25 PM Rating: Good
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I've never much cared for gear damage systems in MMOs, but I've never played another MMO where gear deteriorated as quickly as it does in XIV. And I've played a LOT of MMOs...

There are just so many better ways SE could have implemented it, and so many ways they can improve on it. Hopefully they do sometime in the near future.

*waits for good news*
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#81 Nov 07 2010 at 4:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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I agree that the gear damage rate on weapons is a bit silly, however I read a great suggestion a while back (I can't remember where sadly) and would like to post it here with a few additions to it of my own.

Basically, the idea would be to allow crafters to make consumable (and of course stackable, I'm thinking up to 12) "repair kits". These kits could be used by anyone on any class. Now, these kits would be different for each material that it repairs, such as Sheepskin Repair Kit, Dodoskin Repair Kit, Bronze Repair Kit, Iron Repair Kit, etc.

As a leatherworker who performs a whole lot of repairs for people, I would not mind having this at all. I still get paid for my services as a repairman, but it adds more convenience for those needing the actual repairs done. I would also love to carry some goldsmithing repair kits on me for my jewelry, since repair NPC won't fix those and I don't always have a goldsmith on hand.

Of course, this is open to adjustments for things like the exact materials needed to make the kits and such. Perhaps the kits should need a few more materials to make than performing the repairs in person. Maybe that would help avoid the cost of the kits falling too low. So if you want some cheaper repairs, you can head to town and find someone to fix it in person. However if you are going to be heading out to fight for a few hours, you could spend a bit more on some kits without having to stop and return to town for repairs.

That being said, I still feel that the rate on weapon wear is bit too much. I think reducing it a bit while adding in these kits would greatly ease some of the frustration people are having.
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#82 Nov 07 2010 at 4:59 PM Rating: Default
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TnelisPotencia wrote:
Olorinus the Vile wrote:

[quote=Taemek]From reading all these posts, the general argument is from the players who just want to rush to 50.

Facts that support this:
"I don't want to repair"
"I don't want to craft"
"I don't want to gather"
"I already work a full time job" <---The biggest bs card that anyone in todays gaming generation can try and pull.
"I just want to do 8 Battlecraft Leve's every 36 hours......"

So because these types of players are only experiencing 20% of the game, the only thing to do is rush to 50.

The problem here is, the amount of Gil you can make from the Local Leve's is pretty impressive, your missing out on a huge amount of reoccuring income that could easily and potentialy support your repairs.

As we all know, people enjoy throwing around the casual gaming card, work, social lives, famalies etc etc. Well, if you plan to do nothing but play casually and do 16 Leve's every 36 hours, you will easily make enough Gil to support anything you wish to do. Not too mention, that alot of the rewards give you the items you need to repair your gear so you don't even need to do gathering if you don't want too. Lets also not forget that by increasing your own crafting rank, your fully able to repair your own gear!!!!!

The time it takes to do all 16 leve's can easily be accomplished in one so called casual sitting. If your only doing Battlecraft Leve's, well, 1 hour later and your done. So what do these so called casual players do after there is no more leve's to do?

First of all i'm not Rushing to any cap i have a laid out plan on leveling jobs, to gain abilities to make my character better in combat. Keyword is Combat. Not worker bee. If you think that you can crank out 8 leves at rank 20+ in an hour you are playing a different game than i am. another thing if im going to chase around the leves that offer the decent gil, and im talkin about 20-30K+ then i need the anima to teleport around all the 3 cities and their camps, other wise im lookin at another couple hours to travel and a tops of 100k for that leve reset. not a lot of gil imho. Try to have a little experience before talkin about things you don't know about. I know this isnt FFXI, because i was never forced to say i need to find someone to fix this for me, or im gunna have to spend a week leveling jobs i dont want or care for.




edit: underwear should be indestructible!

Edited, Nov 7th 2010 5:04pm by TnelisPotencia


Being in a group is part of being able to be part of a team, therefore if you able to repair others in the group and keep them going, you can grind all that much longer. If your dead weight and the group has to fold causing it down time trying to find a replacement because you don't want to be part of the bigger picture, I doubt that group will have you again. Could be due to the fact that you don't carry materials to have your gear repaired by others in the group and are just mooching off them OR maybe they expect you to be able to repair your own classes armor/weapons so there is no downtime.

I can run from one side of The Black Shroud to the other in 11 mins, I fail to see where the *hours* comes from travelling, just saying....besides, if your smart about your anima usage, you will never run out unless your porting people for Gil.
#83 Nov 07 2010 at 5:01 PM Rating: Default
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Lantesh wrote:
I agree that the gear damage rate on weapons is a bit silly, however I read a great suggestion a while back (I can't remember where sadly) and would like to post it here with a few additions to it of my own.

Basically, the idea would be to allow crafters to make consumable (and of course stackable, I'm thinking up to 12) "repair kits". These kits could be used by anyone on any class. Now, these kits would be different for each material that it repairs, such as Sheepskin Repair Kit, Dodoskin Repair Kit, Bronze Repair Kit, Iron Repair Kit, etc.

As a leatherworker who performs a whole lot of repairs for people, I would not mind having this at all. I still get paid for my services as a repairman, but it adds more convenience for those needing the actual repairs done. I would also love to carry some goldsmithing repair kits on me for my jewelry, since repair NPC won't fix those and I don't always have a goldsmith on hand.

Of course, this is open to adjustments for things like the exact materials needed to make the kits and such. Perhaps the kits should need a few more materials to make than performing the repairs in person. Maybe that would help avoid the cost of the kits falling too low. So if you want some cheaper repairs, you can head to town and find someone to fix it in person. However if you are going to be heading out to fight for a few hours, you could spend a bit more on some kits without having to stop and return to town for repairs.

That being said, I still feel that the rate on weapon wear is bit too much. I think reducing it a bit while adding in these kits would greatly ease some of the frustration people are having.


Using my above post as an example, your group can be the repair kit.

It doesn't hurt to carry a stack of the materials needed to repair your gear in the event your grouped with people who can repair your stuff for you in the field. It's only common sense really.
#84 Nov 07 2010 at 5:21 PM Rating: Good
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Taemek wrote:
Using my above post as an example, your group can be the repair kit.

It doesn't hurt to carry a stack of the materials needed to repair your gear in the event your grouped with people who can repair your stuff for you in the field. It's only common sense really.


Oh I agree, I do that right now when I head out for groups. I can also repair the majority of my gear myself so it isn't that much of an issue for me personally. Part of the problem is that it's a chance that someone you group up with will be able to repair your gear. Many of the people I have grouped with don't craft at all let alone have the proper craft to fix my stuff.

Also assuming that someone is able to fix your stuff, it sometimes breaks the pace of battle. Having to stop, having them change to their crafting class and gear (I have a macro for all my gear changing, but it still takes some time), putting the item in your bazaar, then finally having them go to fix it all takes up time. Having to stop and go back to town takes even longer. I realize that it might be a petty/minor complaint (especially since I'm getting repairs done), but sometimes my group and I get into the "groove" of battle so to speak and just want to keep going. Although stopping and taking breaks is advisable anyway, sometimes I just want to keep fighting.

Being able to just use a repair kit on your weapon/armor doesn't leave it to chance that you can get your repairs done in the field. It also wouldn't take up too much time so you can get back into the fight quickly. It's really a matter of convenience.
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#85 Nov 07 2010 at 11:52 PM Rating: Default
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please, just take durability off! rings, necklaces, undershirts getting damaged? really? I understand they are trying to make many people think this is a "hardcore" game but its just a pain in the ***. I was playing a couple weeks ago but stopped because no one wanted to repair my dagger. Granted I understand I could level up blacksmithing or whatever to repair it but why should I? And I'm not going to sit there Seeking for repairs. It's no better than a Dragoon seeking for a party. please just take it off, and whoever wants to reply to this and explain/defend SE's decision to do this, then please waste your time. Thank you
#86 Nov 08 2010 at 12:30 AM Rating: Good
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Taemek wrote:
Being in a group is part of being able to be part of a team, therefore if you able to repair others in the group and keep them going, you can grind all that much longer. If your dead weight and the group has to fold causing it down time trying to find a replacement because you don't want to be part of the bigger picture, I doubt that group will have you again. Could be due to the fact that you don't carry materials to have your gear repaired by others in the group and are just mooching off them OR maybe they expect you to be able to repair your own classes armor/weapons so there is no downtime.


I can't say I agree with you. I didn't rank up crafting classes to do for others what they aren't interested in doing for themselves. Sometimes I'm willing to lend a hand. Other times I can't be bothered. It took all of about 10 days after CE launch for me to start to feel jaded towards people who started to treat me like my sole purpose for logging in was to make or repair their gear for them for peanuts.

My original plan going in was to focus on armorer and blacksmith just so that I could make and repair my gladiator's gear. I also started out leveling support classes for my gladiator not only for the abilities but also as a means of farming shards to get started. As I learned more about what was required for DoH classes to be self sufficient in the armor and weapon category, my DoH efforts quickly expanded to every other DoH class except cooking (which I wound up taking to 10 anyways for Harmonize). And in order to supply the DoH classes I was working on I took up mining and botany.

And after having done my bit with support classes to rank 10 I decided to push THM to 18 "just in case" the ABS-xxx spells might come in handy. And no sooner had I gone back to my gladiator did I find out that if I really want to do it up right, I'd be well advised to tack another 4 ranks each onto Pugilist and Marauder for reactive TP abilities for tanking, so that's what I did. And now for solo I plan on taking Conjurer from 10 to 16 for Protect and Shell and maybe even 20 for Cure II, and then maybe back to THM for Sacrifice II at 20.

And when that's all said and done and I can finally focus on my gladiator to the exclusion of other combat classes for a good while, I ***********-tee you that the last thing I will ever be to a group is "dead weight". And if they want to exclude me from their future groups because they found out after the fact that I could have repaired all of their gear...even most of their over-ranked pieces...but chose not to reveal my DoH achievements, I'm okay with that because the last people I want to group with are the kind who are going to resent me for not carrying their ***, and that includes repairing the stuff that they couldn't be bothered to put in the time to look after themselves.

Sometimes I enjoy helping out. I'll help LS folks if they're nearby or I'm in a group with them. I won't drop what I'm doing and travel any length of time for them. And as far as strangers go, my willingness to "serve" varies from day to day and moment to moment. Your blanket statements are neither fair nor accurate. A reasonable level of self-sufficiency is the hallmark of the kinds of people I most enjoy spending my in-game time with, and that precludes people who think that they've got an entitlement to think of me as less than a team player because they can't look after themselves.
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