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11/5 Ask the Devs Reveals a lotFollow

#1 Nov 05 2010 at 4:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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Great info released today:
Ask The Devs 11/5

Quote:

Q. I am having a hard time deciding where to allocate my bonus points. What effect will raising each of the various stats have on my character?
A. The effects for each available stat are listed below:

Strength (STR)
Increases damage dealt by physical attacks
Increases damage prevented when blocking attacks with a shield

Vitality (VIT)
Reduces damage taken from physical attacks
Increases maximum HP

Dexterity (DEX)
Increases accuracy of physical attacks
Increases chances of evading physical attacks
Increases critical hit rate of physical attacks and resulting damage
Increases parry rate for certain weapons

Intelligence (INT)
Increases damage dealt by magic attacks

Mind (MND)
Reduces damage taken from magic attacks
Increases maximum MP

Piety (PIE)
Reduces chances of your magic attacks being resisted
Increases your chance of resisting magic attacks of others

Elements
Increases damage dealt by attacks of that element
Reduces damage taken from attacks of the opposing element

Hints as to which attributes are most advantageous to each class can be discovered in-game by speaking to NPCs or examining the stats of items purchased with guild marks. For those who simply wish to have the facts straightaway, however, we have provided the following lists.


Much more info about stats in the post, including class benefit breakdowns.
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#2 Nov 05 2010 at 4:59 AM Rating: Decent
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Wow, useful information for once. Good deal.
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#3 Nov 05 2010 at 5:02 AM Rating: Default
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This is quite a good read...

I like how they almost seem to resent having to lay these facts out to us though..

" Again, for those not willing to invest that sort of time, we have listed the relationships below. "

Everything is in the game, I guess they just didnt realise that the instant gratification mentality of some players weighs more heavily against players that enjoy their own journey of discovery....
#4 Nov 05 2010 at 5:11 AM Rating: Decent
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Wow, this is a fair amount of information. It solidifies a lot of the theories that have been floating around. Kudos to SE for actually discussing mechanics for once and being pretty specific about it.
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#5 Nov 05 2010 at 5:14 AM Rating: Excellent
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Holy balls, explanation of which stat affects which craft by main and off hand! Wow.

For those who can't/don't want to check the link, here's the craft breakdown:
 
Class		Main Hand Tool	Off Hand Tool 
Carpenter	VIT		DEX 
Blacksmith	STR		MND 
Armorer		VIT		STR 
Goldsmith	DEX		INT 
Leatherworker	VIT		INT 
Weaver		DEX		MND 
Alchemist	INT		PIE 
Culinarian	MND		PIE

#6 Nov 05 2010 at 5:20 AM Rating: Decent
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ALRIGHT SE FINALLY SOME VERY VERY NEEDED INFO!
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#7 Nov 05 2010 at 5:41 AM Rating: Default
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Guess Dex really is what it was intended to be, but wow used for four things. Amazing!
Still shocking how the stats works for crafting, now imagine that if it works for Hq'ing.
#8 Nov 05 2010 at 5:50 AM Rating: Decent
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Wow.. im sitting at my desk - absolutely at awe that SE released this information.

Floored.

Now the endless conversations in LS chat about MND being defensive against magic attacks can stop - and the laughable Dex vs Acc posts can stop (mostly). We all know how stats effect in game mechanics, now we just need to know the level caps and actual useability. ^^
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#9 Nov 05 2010 at 6:21 AM Rating: Good
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From this, it's clear to see why people are stacking DEX on their DoW's. Good info.
#10 Nov 05 2010 at 6:29 AM Rating: Good
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I'll go do some more testing, but in the past, INT didn't increase my magic attacks at all.
#11 Nov 05 2010 at 6:30 AM Rating: Good
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Inboundwar wrote:

Still shocking how the stats works for crafting, now imagine that if it works for Hq'ing.


Actually if you read the post, HQ's are really the only thing stats are good for :P

OnyxFFXI wrote:
From this, it's clear to see why people are stacking DEX on their DoW's. Good info.


But until we know what the actual caps are, that might be pretty useless - depending on your level.

I'm happy to have it all laid out at least.... for once lol XD

Edited, Nov 5th 2010 8:32am by rikkuotaku
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#12 Nov 05 2010 at 6:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Again, for those not willing to invest that sort of time


Think they're taking a dig at certain people? I think it's non-diplomatically translated personally, but I find it kinda funny it's said over and over.

Great info, almost makes up for the last one.
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#13 Nov 05 2010 at 6:40 AM Rating: Good
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Ponderosa wrote:
I'll go do some more testing, but in the past, INT didn't increase my magic attacks at all.


You may have been past the stat cap for your class rank. I have a feeling for the low levels the stat caps are relatively low.
#14 Nov 05 2010 at 7:03 AM Rating: Decent
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Does this mean INT, PIE and DEX are broken then?
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#15 Nov 05 2010 at 7:24 AM Rating: Good
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Well i did a quick test using weak mobs.

Round 1:

HP 945 MP 958 INT 36 MND 82 PIE 25

15 casts of Fire II and Thunder II against dodos, 1 complete resist, average damage per cast was 506.4

Round 2:

HP 919 MP 925 INT 47 MND 77 PIE 37

17 casts of Fire II and Thunder II against dodos, 4 complete resists, average damage per cast was 485.8

Also of note is that I had spent 40 points into PIE for round 2, but only ended up with 37 PIE.


CONCLUSION: RANDOM NUMBER GENERATOR

Anyone else care to conduct a test? Maybe the game just hates me.



#16 Nov 05 2010 at 7:38 AM Rating: Good
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Ponderosa wrote:
Well i did a quick test using weak mobs.

Round 1:

HP 945 MP 958 INT 36 MND 82 PIE 25

15 casts of Fire II and Thunder II against dodos, 1 complete resist, average damage per cast was 506.4

Round 2:

HP 919 MP 925 INT 47 MND 77 PIE 37

17 casts of Fire II and Thunder II against dodos, 4 complete resists, average damage per cast was 485.8

Also of note is that I had spent 40 points into PIE for round 2, but only ended up with 37 PIE.


CONCLUSION: RANDOM NUMBER GENERATOR

Anyone else care to conduct a test? Maybe the game just hates me.





Its not just you, all the tests conducted on these three attributes (INT, DEX, PIE) have turned back the same results.
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#17 Nov 05 2010 at 8:37 AM Rating: Decent
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Now, I like to hear more about this part.....

Quote:
Elements
Increases damage dealt by attacks of that element
Reduces damage taken from attacks of the opposing element



Does "attacks of that element" only talk about Magic?
I play Pugilist as main class, so I really like to know the element of each of my attacks......
#18 Nov 05 2010 at 8:53 AM Rating: Decent
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Good question, do elements only apply to magic or all attacks and abilities?
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#19 Nov 05 2010 at 9:06 AM Rating: Decent
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Did they have a dev talk about WHEN to use secondary tools for crafting?
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#20 Nov 05 2010 at 9:09 AM Rating: Decent
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ilwhana wrote:
Now, I like to hear more about this part.....

Quote:
Elements
Increases damage dealt by attacks of that element
Reduces damage taken from attacks of the opposing element



Does "attacks of that element" only talk about Magic?
I play Pugilist as main class, so I really like to know the element of each of my attacks......


more importantly: does this have a cap?
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#21 Nov 05 2010 at 9:10 AM Rating: Decent
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xellosalpha wrote:
Did they have a dev talk about WHEN to use secondary tools for crafting?

Main : HQ = +1
Secondary : HQ = yields a higher quantity.
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#22 Nov 05 2010 at 9:11 AM Rating: Decent
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xellosalpha wrote:
Did they have a dev talk about WHEN to use secondary tools for crafting?


From looking at what you are making, along with the tools you are using, most are common sense on which tool should be used.
#23 Nov 05 2010 at 9:32 AM Rating: Decent
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Now why couldnt this info be released earlier....
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#24 Nov 05 2010 at 9:39 AM Rating: Good
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ah.... my propensity to HQ as Alchemist with my main hand tool has been explained by my intelligence score!
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#25 Nov 05 2010 at 9:48 AM Rating: Decent
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Very nice read! Thanks, SE!
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#26 Nov 05 2010 at 10:17 AM Rating: Excellent
I think I might be right about my theory that SE is switching back and forth from basic/advanced regarding their Q&A sessions.

Expect a "basics" Q&A next time, people. Great info this round though!
#27 Nov 05 2010 at 10:22 AM Rating: Good
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Osarion, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
I think I might be right about my theory that SE is switching back and forth from basic/advanced regarding their Q&A sessions.

Expect a "basics" Q&A next time, people. Great info this round though!


Can you site your source? Do you have enough data to backup your theory? I would like to see at least a 100k data point sample set before I believe your "WILD" theories!

It's neat the added some info about DoL/DoH classes and stats.

Edited, Nov 5th 2010 12:22pm by chopstx
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#28 Nov 05 2010 at 10:36 AM Rating: Good
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MajidahSihaam wrote:
xellosalpha wrote:
Did they have a dev talk about WHEN to use secondary tools for crafting?

Main : HQ = +1
Secondary : HQ = yields a higher quantity.


It is actually different depending on the class and synth. For example, MH Alchemy on Animal Glue makes a higher yeild, while the OF produces higher quality materials. However Distilled Water, also an Alchemy synth, produces higher quality materials with MH, and a higher yeild with OH.

This is why it is vital that people note which tool they use for crafting purposes if they report HQ results.
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#29 Nov 05 2010 at 10:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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ElDoyen wrote:
This is quite a good read...

I like how they almost seem to resent having to lay these facts out to us though..

" Again, for those not willing to invest that sort of time, we have listed the relationships below. "

Everything is in the game, I guess they just didnt realise that the instant gratification mentality of some players weighs more heavily against players that enjoy their own journey of discovery....


I would call it more confirmation than instant gratification. It took intelligent people about 30 seconds to look up the DoH abilities and come to the conclusion that they probably help that specific DoH class, but there was never any confirmation. You could always throw out the "well, duh" argument, but then you have THM and CON guild mark purchasable items giving -5 INT and +5 STR. So you have DoW/DoM classes that are giving rewards that benefit other Disciplines, so it wasn't too far fetched to assume that the DoH rewards could be doing the same thing.

No one knew for sure, so it's extremely nice to actually have something from the developer.
#30 Nov 05 2010 at 11:23 AM Rating: Good
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Great info, hard to belive this and the 1-30 recipes on lodestone came from same ppl that made FFXI but i think the reason they're being so forthcomming is because they realize they're in trouble :x still quite happy.
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#31 Nov 05 2010 at 11:33 AM Rating: Decent
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This is fantastic information – this single post places FFXIV knowledge beyond what players knew (and know) about how FFXI mechanics work.

This still raises several questions, however that will need to be tested. For instance, we now know that STR affects damage prevented when blocking attacks with a shield – but by how much per point? Does a tank want to stack STR? If not, then how much STR is optimal? Are there diminishing returns? Do certain classes benefit more from strength when blocking with a shield than others?

The simple fact that we can start asking these questions, and begin working on answers, is exciting to me. I cannot wait to see what the community does with this information.
#32 Nov 05 2010 at 11:37 AM Rating: Decent
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yet, for some reason, i get no extra damage i can see from Int, while i do from MND.
And i have yet to notice Piety give me any benefit whatsoever (playing rank 22 Thaumaturge), so are the stats broken, utterly insignificant, or are thedevs lying?
#33RayneZ, Posted: Nov 05 2010 at 11:41 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Bonus Points Bonus Points Bonus Points Bonus Points Bonus Points Bonus Points Bonus Points Bonus Points Bonus Points Bonus Points Bonus Points Bonus Points Bonus Points Bonus Points Bonus Points Bonus Points Bonus Points
#34 Nov 05 2010 at 12:59 PM Rating: Decent
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MajidahSihaam wrote:
Does this mean INT, PIE and DEX are broken then?


this

Nice to know that dex improve Acc but still every test have prooved that dex do nothing for acc, then i can just think that the stats are broken and need to be fixed.
#35 Nov 05 2010 at 4:25 PM Rating: Decent
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i have to agree with the attributes points being somewhat broken, im a 21 THM and ive played with att.s so much (cuz i mostly solo) that i figured id find a good combo, but the stats dont seem to effect much of anything at all.
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#36 Nov 05 2010 at 4:31 PM Rating: Good
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Ryneguy wrote:
Strength (STR)
Increases damage dealt by physical attacks


I call BS on this part. That doesn't sound even remotely plausible.
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#37 Nov 05 2010 at 5:17 PM Rating: Good
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forgiven wrote:
MajidahSihaam wrote:

Does this mean INT, PIE and DEX are broken then?


this

Nice to know that dex improve Acc but still every test have prooved that dex do nothing for acc, then i can just think that the stats are broken and need to be fixed.


Yeah, if anything this just convinced me that the stats are broken at the moment.

I have had a much easier time soloing leves on 2-3 star difficulty with my stats allocated at 70% Vit, 30% Mnd than my initial build (50% Vit, 20% Pie, 20% Int, 10% Mnd).

I can't imagine this is how SE intended these stats to function...

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#38 Nov 05 2010 at 5:26 PM Rating: Good
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That's extremely high quality info.

/salute S-E
#39 Nov 05 2010 at 5:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Indications as to which attributes are most important to classes within the Discipline of the Land can be found in-game by closely examining the gathering-related abilities obtained via guild marks. Again, for those not willing to invest that sort of time, we have listed the relationships below.


I lol'd when I read this. "Invest that sort of time?" How is it an investment of time? You mean the speculating, theorizing and testing that goes on in forums like this one? Those sort of hints are only really useful to the few people who are going to actually do hypothesis testing. Those are the people who are going to "invest that sort of time." Everyone else is just going to speculate until the results are in. And even the people who take the time to research it are often a little resentful that it needs to be done to get an answer.

Seemed almost delusional to me. Out of touch much, SE?
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#40Leodesol, Posted: Nov 05 2010 at 5:37 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) For everyone asking about if this means certain stats are broken... Do not forget that SE is probably still trying to decode everything the Chinese developers they outsourced to did....
#41 Nov 05 2010 at 5:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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Leodesol wrote:
For everyone asking about if this means certain stats are broken... Do not forget that SE is probably still trying to decode everything the Chinese developers they outsourced to did....


SE is just stating that this is how stats are suppose to work, and is probably how they will work after a few more patches as they begin to learn their way around the code.

Chinese language back to JP patch notes...

http://furiousfanboys.com/2010/09/ffxiv-made-in-china/

Wow... at best, that is some of the worst misinformation I have ever seen, at worst, it's blatant propaganda. The screenshot clearly shows Japanese characters written in a mix of Kanji and Hiragana converted to Katakana and Hiragana with some Kanji thrown in. If I had to guess, they had some intern writing up the flavor text who used a few wrong phrases which needed to be converted back to the classic ones. The original author's evidence that it was made in China is sketchy and reaching. It doesn't even make any sense to outsource an MMO, since ultimately most of the work will have to be done in house after release. Ultimately, I see no real evidence of that statement, unless there is a money trail I do not know about. (Not to mention Square Enix, and Japan in general do not have the greatest relationship with China, if they were going to outsource anywhere it would probably be Norway.)

On topic, they seem to be really trying to reach out to the community here, providing some basic information that has long been the source of controversy in FFXI. Whatever the reason, I am very glad to see them making the effort, hopefully we'll see more like it in the future. It would certainly be quite an irony if it turns out they did not know the stats were not "plugged in" so to speak and discover it after seeing the response to this Ask the Devs though.

Edited, Nov 5th 2010 7:58pm by Hulan
#42 Nov 05 2010 at 6:23 PM Rating: Good
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No wonder I fail so hard with secondary tools! (As a MAR primary, I allotted most of the points into STR, VIT, and DEX)
#43 Nov 05 2010 at 7:38 PM Rating: Default
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SE also said thier is a cap on stats. So i wonder What those caps are and at lvl 50 with rank and PHSY levels whats those stats are. I wouldn't mind finding those out so i don't waste points as i lvl up.
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#44 Nov 05 2010 at 8:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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Osarion, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
I think I might be right about my theory that SE is switching back and forth from basic/advanced regarding their Q&A sessions.

Expect a "basics" Q&A next time, people. Great info this round though!
Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who notices that some "Ask the Devs" are labeled with "My First Q&A" and some are not.

Hulan wrote:
Leodesol wrote:
For everyone asking about if this means certain stats are broken... Do not forget that SE is probably still trying to decode everything the Chinese developers they outsourced to did....


SE is just stating that this is how stats are suppose to work, and is probably how they will work after a few more patches as they begin to learn their way around the code.

Chinese language back to JP patch notes...

http://furiousfanboys.com/2010/09/ffxiv-made-in-china/

Wow... at best, that is some of the worst misinformation I have ever seen, at worst, it's blatant propaganda. The screenshot clearly shows Japanese characters written in a mix of Kanji and Hiragana converted to Katakana and Hiragana with some Kanji thrown in. If I had to guess, they had some intern writing up the flavor text who used a few wrong phrases which needed to be converted back to the classic ones. The original author's evidence that it was made in China is sketchy and reaching. It doesn't even make any sense to outsource an MMO, since ultimately most of the work will have to be done in house after release. Ultimately, I see no real evidence of that statement, unless there is a money trail I do not know about. (Not to mention Square Enix, and Japan in general do not have the greatest relationship with China, if they were going to outsource anywhere it would probably be Norway.)

On topic, they seem to be really trying to reach out to the community here, providing some basic information that has long been the source of controversy in FFXI. Whatever the reason, I am very glad to see them making the effort, hopefully we'll see more like it in the future. It would certainly be quite an irony if it turns out they did not know the stats were not "plugged in" so to speak and discover it after seeing the response to this Ask the Devs though.

Edited, Nov 5th 2010 7:58pm by Hulan
Glad someone else realizes the people spreading this rumor are full of it. I can try to explain this better, but it's not likely to stop anyone from spreading the rumours now that they're already out there.

The simple explanation is that the development team, which includes many people from FFXI's development team, just love kanji (Chinese characters in use in Japanese). If you compare FFXI to any other FF game, and pretty much any mainstream game in general, it uses far more kanji, much of which is made up entirely (i.e. the kanji may be in use, but the compounds are not words in either Japanese or Chinese). They use both more kanji for things that wouldn't normally use it, as well as just more kanji in general (meaning antiquated ones).

More to the point, in many instances where a normal modern game would use an English term instead of a Japanese one, the devlopers decided to use a pseudo-Chinese term instead. If anyone reading this doesn't know any Japanese, the first thing you have to understand here is that English is incredibly popular to use in video games (and comics and other things). It's not like any of these words were going to be in Japanese; they would already be written by the Japanese-speaking developers in a foreign language - English. So their line of thinking is basically that English is overused for exotic-sounding names, and the other language that their Japanese audience would both think of as exotic but also be able to understand somewhat would be Chinese. You can also think of using Chinese/kanji as being to Japanese what Latin is to English - it's often the root for more scientific and scholarly terms for things, so it sounds "smart."

I think the biggest one people have latched onto is the whole thing with chocobos. But it's not like they renamed chocobos entirely, they just named a few chocobo-related things like the item "chocobo feather" using more kanji. So the bird itself is still named "chocobo" but the feather was named "馬鳥の羽根" (horse-bird feather, the idea being that a chocobo is a bird that serves as a mount) for flavor. "馬鳥" isn't even the Chinese name for chocobo (which is 陸行鳥, "earthbound bird"), and it was obviously made up by some Japanese guys who thought it would sound cool/smart/whatever.

The fans did react negatively to such extensive use of kanji/Chinese, partially because it's harder to read and partially because it's just not cool like English is currently. It can also be difficult to know how the devs decided their made-up kanji compounds are supposed to be pronounced, while the same problem doesn't exist for English words which are written phonetically. If you don't know how to pronounce something, you may not be able to type it, and probably wouldn't be able to auto-translate it at all in Japanese. The people who actually think it's some kind of conspiracy/cover-up are a vocal minority (we are on the Internet after all).

The main issue here is that when some people deliberately try to spread false information across a language barrier, their audience has no way of knowing better. I don't blame people who continue to spread it not knowing any Japanese (or Chinese) because they really have no way of knowing the whole story. It's unfortunate that it's so easy to fall victim to this kind of propaganda, but it's also interesting to watch.

Edited, Nov 5th 2010 7:24pm by TheMoreYouKnow
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#45 Nov 06 2010 at 11:20 PM Rating: Decent
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pie is not broken btw, i did tested in cassiopiera hollow on squids. i totally lowered pie to 15 ) i had 92, and it was a resist galore, and im lvl 33 thm , my staff was not broken
same with dex, i was hitting efts from misbeard cove with lots of accuracy procs , i had 82 dex being a lvl 10 lancer, i was getting lots of sp using cures as well
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