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Dos controlling the RMT actions worth all of this?Follow

#1 Nov 06 2010 at 2:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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Every time you ask why did SE do this or do that, RMT is mentioned.

Why is there no AH? To prevent RMT from controlling the economy.

Why is there no Mail? To prevent RMT from abusing it and transfer gil.

Why the SP system is not like FFXI? To not allow RMT to power level.

And yet you see them everywhere.

RMT don’t kill the game, bad design will, look at WoW, AoC, EVE, FFXI, Aion all of them have these opinions and all of them have RMT, are these games dead? No, they are all still there.

Or did they do this to reduce the amount of staff that needs to deal with RMT investigation and services support?

Am starting to doubt this RMT excuse

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#2 Nov 06 2010 at 2:24 AM Rating: Good
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I saw a group of 4 farmers leveling up.. all with stupid names with a bunch of constants in a row, all the same conjurer class, and all female lafallels, with the signature **** gear gear that they use to be stingy and maximize profits.
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#3IIIvirusIII, Posted: Nov 06 2010 at 2:30 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) no ?
#4 Nov 06 2010 at 2:34 AM Rating: Decent
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daour wrote:
Every time you ask why did SE do this or do that, RMT is mentioned.

Why is there no AH? To prevent RMT from controlling the economy.

Why is there no Mail? To prevent RMT from abusing it and transfer gil.

Why the SP system is not like FFXI? To not allow RMT to power level.

And yet you see them everywhere.

RMT don’t kill the game, bad design will, look at WoW, AoC, EVE, FFXI, Aion all of them have these opinions and all of them have RMT, are these games dead? No, they are all still there.

Or did they do this to reduce the amount of staff that needs to deal with RMT investigation and services support?

Am starting to doubt this RMT excuse



I haven't heard anyone say the SP system is the way it is because of RMT.

And no, it's not worth it to deal with RMT. There are other MMOs on the market that can clearly demonstrate that you can keep RMT in line without ruining or excluding game features.
#5 Nov 06 2010 at 2:42 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
RMT don’t kill the game, bad design will, look at WoW, AoC, EVE, FFXI, Aion all of them have these opinions and all of them have RMT, are these games dead? No, they are all still there.

RMT does ***** up cost of stuff ever try and sell something only to be always undercut, thx to the idiots that buy from them. dont think SE is trying to do that i think there trying to level the playing field. ever see people buying stuff that adds up to millions then they have nothing to show how they got that money and your slaveing away to make that.

Quote:
Why is there no AH? To prevent RMT from controlling the economy.

yup they will set the prices since they can play 24/7 and you try to set it they'll just undercut you till that items is worthless they buy and sell there own sh*t to get it that way. there gotta be a ton of people buying or they wouldnt be there. AH is a old system should do something like it with retainers but it dont keep history, a search command in the ward's is good.

Edited, Nov 6th 2010 4:45am by mitmystria
#6 Nov 06 2010 at 3:53 AM Rating: Decent
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mitmystria wrote:
Quote:
RMT don’t kill the game, bad design will, look at WoW, AoC, EVE, FFXI, Aion all of them have these opinions and all of them have RMT, are these games dead? No, they are all still there.

RMT does ***** up cost of stuff ever try and sell something only to be always undercut, thx to the idiots that buy from them. dont think SE is trying to do that i think there trying to level the playing field. ever see people buying stuff that adds up to millions then they have nothing to show how they got that money and your slaveing away to make that.

Quote:
Why is there no AH? To prevent RMT from controlling the economy.

yup they will set the prices since they can play 24/7 and you try to set it they'll just undercut you till that items is worthless they buy and sell there own sh*t to get it that way. there gotta be a ton of people buying or they wouldnt be there. AH is a old system should do something like it with retainers but it dont keep history, a search command in the ward's is good.

Edited, Nov 6th 2010 4:45am by mitmystria


We all know this fact and no one with 1 year experience in any MMO will till you otherwise, but from looking at it from the other side, spending 2+ hours in a ward to find an item that you want, and not finding it, is far more annoying than dealing with RMT and how they control the AH, they can work on the AH in any other way they like, but not having it at all is a bad design.
Limit the access to it; I can even accept using it once a week, but not having it at all?
And search function will not work, not when you have 3 cities and 10+? Wards and people bazaar things in the wrong wards.
But am not talking about the AH here, am talking about everything they decided to implement differently than the common things we see in almost all MMO's out there, just because they want to control the game in a way that its un RMT friendly and in the way hurt their players, and lose people.

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#7 Nov 06 2010 at 4:52 AM Rating: Default
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why bother to prevent RMT anyway,it is **** easy to get gil in this game
#8 Nov 06 2010 at 5:07 AM Rating: Excellent
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Shneibel wrote:
why bother to prevent RMT anyway,it is **** easy to get gil in this game



Well the whole thing is if RMT are able to take over the market, someone with 25 mil gil will be considered poor. Playing FFXI right after the launch the first time I bought a Haubergeon it was 450k, I literally farmed mauls in bedeaux for it. 2 years later is was about 20 mil, then about a year after that it was down to like a 800k-1mil. RMT just wreak havoc on the economy.

All that said, I would rather just have a fun game with things a game should have like an AH and mail, and deal with RMT and ignore gil buyers.

What they should do is forget all the RMT countermeasures and make the game that gamers can get behind, and forget about banning gil buyers, but do like a "Scarlet Letter" type thing. After proper investigation, once someone is proven to be a gil buyer, they give him a visible "title" by his name like,

Dark Sephiroth~The Gil Buyer....
or
Myzuki Oyama~Fails at Life....

Only joking about that, but it would be funny to see bunch of ppl running around with an embarassing title.
#9 Nov 06 2010 at 5:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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Poor GM support and poor GM action is why there's so much RMT, imo. I remember when I used to play LotRO, the GMs were pretty quick to react upon reports about botting. I haven't played it ever since finishing the first expansion (Mines of Moria) so I don't know if now anything's different.... but, back in those days the GMs did, for the most part, their job well. If there was a glitched instance, they'd reset the problem for us in 30min max, bots were gone shortly after being reported (provided the GM really verified that they indeed were bots).

To put it bluntly - instead of wasting money on systems that should prevent RMT from spawning (which they really don't do, as we can see), they should just pay more GMs to do their jobs. Seek and destroy.

[edit for spelling]

Edited, Nov 6th 2010 7:41am by Briker
#10 Nov 06 2010 at 7:35 AM Rating: Decent
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While I can understand why SE wants to be seen as highly activite to prevent RMT I do not believe the RMT is the real reason for many issues. In an MMO you can somehow connect all game mechanics to RMT do to the fact that RMT is operating within a game and hence uses those mechanics making it a false corollary.

Why no mail? Increased database access which would increase total server load and likely have an even greater effect on general UI delay.

Sp gain...um yeah I honestly think their equation is just bugged. Fight a green mob get 34 sp from a single hit during the entire fight and then go fight a blue mob and get 300+sp with a over 100sp from a single hit. Something just seems broken, but RMT prevention is a easy scapegoat.
#11 Nov 06 2010 at 7:40 AM Rating: Decent
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Personally, i think the sp thing is there not because of RMT, but because they know they have no content whatsoever in this game, so instead of adding content before release, they put in as many hurdles as they could to slow people down.

No chocobos, slow anima regen, random sp, low sp at later levels, maybe even then constant weapon break downs (altough this might be just there due to bad design).
#12 Nov 06 2010 at 7:54 AM Rating: Excellent
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every game that bases gear/upgrades on crafters rather than quest/dungeons, is going to be very vulnerable to RMT. The more important player to player transactions are, they more players can abuse them. SE had to know that RMT would be just as much of an impact, if not more, in 14 than they were in 11. however, every anti-RMT feature they added, hurts regular players just as much as RMT dudes, if not more. Instead of building around them like WOW has learned to do, they've just 'nerfed' everyone's abilities to trade effeciently. Nothing SE's done will deter RMT, or prevent it in any way, and if anything, they've vastly increased the number of people willing to buy gil rather than farm it up and deal with the obstacles.
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#13 Nov 06 2010 at 8:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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KujaKoF wrote:
every game that bases gear/upgrades on crafters rather than quest/dungeons, is going to be very vulnerable to RMT. The more important player to player transactions are, they more players can abuse them. SE had to know that RMT would be just as much of an impact, if not more, in 14 than they were in 11. however, every anti-RMT feature they added, hurts regular players just as much as RMT dudes, if not more. Instead of building around them like WOW has learned to do, they've just 'nerfed' everyone's abilities to trade effeciently. Nothing SE's done will deter RMT, or prevent it in any way, and if anything, they've vastly increased the number of people willing to buy gil rather than farm it up and deal with the obstacles.



Oh I don't know, I think ******* off the player-base and hemorrhaging subs will probably deter RMT from bothering with the game somewhat. RMT can't make a profit if there's no one left to sell to. So in that light, hey they succeeded! Just gotta try to keep a positive outlook...
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#14 Nov 06 2010 at 9:53 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm all for SE attempting to hinder/prevent RMT, but so far their only method of preventing RMT from manipulating the economy is not having an economy.

**** even with an AH and mail components, these features will still be crippled by the game's terrible UI.. Chat box limitations, chat box being erased whenever preforming any action in the game, UI lag, item sort feature, buggy/lagged macros..

It just makes me wonder if SE's UI programmers are on vacation or something.. These are simple fixes.. (maybe not lag, but the rest are Game Programming 101)
#15 Nov 06 2010 at 10:09 AM Rating: Good
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It's getting old to hear players - and in this case, SE I guess - blaming undercutting through an Auction House on RMT, as well as placing blame on players who purchase goods at said lower prices.

Undercutting is a valid and completely legitimate economic response to an increase in supply with no improvement on demand. RMT can manipulate the supply and cause prices to drop, but to say undercutting is bad simply because of RMT is completely wrong.

RMT doesn't undercut, they simply introduce forces that adjusts the price equilibrium. As such, there are times when the smartest economic move is to undercut (lower the price) of your goods, and just because those forces are being influenced by RMT doesn't mean there isn't money to be made in the market.

Edited, Nov 6th 2010 12:09pm by Whales
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#16 Nov 06 2010 at 10:09 AM Rating: Decent
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SE current strategy against RMT is to loose so many of it's subscribers that there won't be a enough of a clientele to support RMT groups.
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#17 Nov 07 2010 at 12:09 AM Rating: Default
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Honestly those are not the real reasons for stuff.
1 SE sees PL an exploit. said it themselves in an update I seen.
2. SE stated that an AH would cause the econ to be built over night which isn't smart. AS it will never be stable. Plus look @ the current ffxi AH. and massive inflation in the early years.
3 mail. Most newer mmo prevet mail to early. Aion restricted mail due to rmt, whispers due to rmt. Don't mean those were SE reasons.

Show source if anything said in OP were for RMt.
Since I;m here to ill rumors, Market wards didn;t replace the AH. Market wards were from a seperate issue all together. Check ffxi as to why. :)
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#18 Nov 07 2010 at 12:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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Irishclass777 wrote:
Honestly those are not the real reasons for stuff.
1 SE sees PL an exploit. said it themselves in an update I seen.
2. SE stated that an AH would cause the econ to be built over night which isn't smart. AS it will never be stable. Plus look @ the current ffxi AH. and massive inflation in the early years.
3 mail. Most newer mmo prevet mail to early. Aion restricted mail due to rmt, whispers due to rmt. Don't mean those were SE reasons.

Show source if anything said in OP were for RMt.
Since I;m here to ill rumors, Market wards didn;t replace the AH. Market wards were from a seperate issue all together. Check ffxi as to why. :)



regarding point 2, economies techincally should never be stable, prices should adjust based on supply and demand daily. Having an AH on day 1 isnt any worse than having one day 1000, supply and demand 'should' be setting price at either time. Additionally, the inflation that occured in FFXI was due more to a shortage in gil sinks. Money that entered the economy rarely left, and it wasnt until years later when demand went down, and rich players left the the game that prices on items reduced to 'acceptable' levels.
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#19 Nov 07 2010 at 1:39 AM Rating: Default
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not to be mean, but need more research. there was alot of gil sinks in the game during inflation. both player made and game made. It went down then the STF started mass banning players. Stable econ means prices go up in down in a heathy way. And unstable econ would be more supple then demand which would happen day 1 if AH was around. prices going from 1mil droping down to 100 gil back to 50K down to 10K back to 100K. for a simple item.
(gil sinks in ffxi were 1 teleports (player made), riding chocobo, buying spells from npc, buying gear from npc, riding airship, buying airship pass, buying kazam airship pass, buying mats from guilds, chocobo from crags went up and down based on popularity. riding ferry, buying fishing supplies from npc.) thats alot more money sinks then most mmo got at that stage. you can have a ton of money sinks that no one uses as they horde their money.
KujaKoF wrote:
Irishclass777 wrote:
Honestly those are not the real reasons for stuff.
1 SE sees PL an exploit. said it themselves in an update I seen.
2. SE stated that an AH would cause the econ to be built over night which isn't smart. AS it will never be stable. Plus look @ the current ffxi AH. and massive inflation in the early years.
3 mail. Most newer mmo prevet mail to early. Aion restricted mail due to rmt, whispers due to rmt. Don't mean those were SE reasons.

Show source if anything said in OP were for RMt.
Since I;m here to ill rumors, Market wards didn;t replace the AH. Market wards were from a seperate issue all together. Check ffxi as to why. :)



regarding point 2, economies techincally should never be stable, prices should adjust based on supply and demand daily. Having an AH on day 1 isnt any worse than having one day 1000, supply and demand 'should' be setting price at either time. Additionally, the inflation that occured in FFXI was due more to a shortage in gil sinks. Money that entered the economy rarely left, and it wasnt until years later when demand went down, and rich players left the the game that prices on items reduced to 'acceptable' levels.
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#20 Nov 07 2010 at 3:09 AM Rating: Decent
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RMT is just an excuse - there is enough evidence already that S-E cannot modify any major aspects of the game and could not do so since the closed beta. All the version updates touch only minor things, which are most likely in scripts/flags. They have sacked their programmers last Spring and don't have anybody to change the code. Most likely they have lost access to the source code during sacking because even with all the programmers gone they could hire a couple of contractors to fix things like inventory sorting or targeting or UI or hundred more obvious bugs reported since beta. They seem to be in control of server code and do change it reasonably often, just not the client.
#21 Nov 07 2010 at 5:39 AM Rating: Good
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Irishclass777 wrote:
not to be mean, but need more research. there was alot of gil sinks in the game during inflation. both player made and game made. It went down then the STF started mass banning players. Stable econ means prices go up in down in a heathy way. And unstable econ would be more supple then demand which would happen day 1 if AH was around. prices going from 1mil droping down to 100 gil back to 50K down to 10K back to 100K. for a simple item.
(gil sinks in ffxi were 1 teleports (player made), riding chocobo, buying spells from npc, buying gear from npc, riding airship, buying airship pass, buying kazam airship pass, buying mats from guilds, chocobo from crags went up and down based on popularity. riding ferry, buying fishing supplies from npc.) thats alot more money sinks then most mmo got at that stage. you can have a ton of money sinks that no one uses as they horde their money.

Teleports are not a gil sink as they do not erase money from circulation.

I believe the reason prices inflated in FFXI was that there was lots of gil in circulation but RMTs were hoarding most of it and eventually items became very pricey for those who did not buy gil. When SE terminated many RMT accounts the total money supply shrank rapidly and the strength of the gil exploded.

FFXIV is looking much worse as far as inflation expectations go as leves spam the econoy with gil and money sinks are weak or easy to circumvent. The only substantial NPC generated fees come from repairing, but it's so much cheaper to have players repair your high level gear nobody actually pays those sky high fees for the hack job of a repair the NPC provides.

An AH would greatly stabilize prices as right now most markets do not have the liquidity to generate an effective pricing mechanism (shards/crystals are an exception). This somewhat benefits crafters as they can ask for higher prices from players unwilling to spend time finding a better deal and crafters are usually better informed of the values of different crafting materials, so they can find great deals from ignorant sellers. On the other hand, crafters looking to leverage high DoH ranks suffer as they're unable to locate the parts for the finished items they're looking to make and sell.

Edited, Nov 7th 2010 6:46am by Omena

Edited, Nov 7th 2010 6:48am by Omena
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#22 Nov 07 2010 at 7:09 AM Rating: Good
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I haven't heard anyone say the SP system is the way it is because of RMT.


i could swear i have, its obvious though, SE is sooooo **** bent on the destruction of the "RMT" that they even designed an entire game THINKING it was going to do just that. HOWEVER racism will always exist, commies will always exist, homophobes will always rule the planet, Lady gaga will always be mistaken for talent, and RMTs will forever and always inhabit MMOs selling ingame currency.
SE needs to take its unattractive head (every face ive seen from SE) from its cobbwebbed hard headed IGNORANT ******* and see that they are not design gods able to make RMT proof games.

**** they cant even make an open world game... hey SE, ever think about ditching the early 90s zone function?

how is it that such a trite game like WoW can so seemlessly and perfectly faze characters in and out of zones and mid quest instances but SE cant/wont? its just baffeling to me.
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#23 Nov 07 2010 at 7:15 AM Rating: Decent
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To OP... most definitely not worth it! RMT's will find a way around these futile attempts to stop them. FFXIV just need more GMs -period- !

Edited, Nov 7th 2010 8:20am by BinkyKun
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