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Stop Flaming PlayersFollow

#1 Nov 06 2010 at 9:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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For people that have quit, plan to quit, or just flat out stay here because they're bitter about the game, this is your notice that you are not to outright flame existing players just because they play the game. I am sick and tired of our community members being berated for liking something others don't.

If this happens to you without provocation, please use the report function and the offending post may be nuked if deemed to be harmful to our community. I would like to clarify that negative opinions *on the game itself* are still permitted, but ad hominem attacks of other ZAM members simply for playing/liking/enjoying an aspect of the game is no longer acceptable.

I'm pointing to you guys that have been rating down the Weekend Accomplishment threads. Cut it out.

Edit: This applies to everyone in general. Be nice, be civil, or get out. Report anyone needing nuking or nudging out the door.

Edited, Nov 7th 2010 12:20pm by Pikko

Edited, Nov 8th 2010 11:40pm by Kaolian Lock Thread: Thread is starting to get heated, and we are beginning to enter repeat territory
#2 Nov 06 2010 at 9:44 PM Rating: Decent
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One of my weekend accomplishments was to hit 27 pug....yeah im 28 pug booo yow!
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#3 Nov 06 2010 at 9:46 PM Rating: Good
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If i rate down its not because of someone liking the game, I'm still playing it too. :P Theres always a reason though.

Anyone want a rate up? (lol j/k)
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#4 Nov 06 2010 at 9:48 PM Rating: Good
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Reebie wrote:
If i rate down its not because of someone liking the game, I'm still playing it too. :P Theres always a reason though.

Anyone want a rate up? (lol j/k)


There isn't always a reason. Some people are just rating down anyone that doesn't bash the game. Kind of sad really.
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#5 Nov 06 2010 at 9:51 PM Rating: Decent
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Teneleven wrote:
Reebie wrote:
If i rate down its not because of someone liking the game, I'm still playing it too. :P Theres always a reason though.

Anyone want a rate up? (lol j/k)


There isn't always a reason. Some people are just rating down anyone that doesn't bash the game. Kind of sad really.


I was just justifying why I would rate down a post/thread. It sucks that others do it without a reason/to flame the fans though.
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#6 Nov 06 2010 at 10:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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Teneleven wrote:
Reebie wrote:
If i rate down its not because of someone liking the game, I'm still playing it too. :P Theres always a reason though.

Anyone want a rate up? (lol j/k)


There isn't always a reason. Some people are just rating down anyone that doesn't bash the game. Kind of sad really.


Yeah ...

Quote:
"Stop defending it, this game sucks (right now) and nothing you say is going to make it stop sucking. If you are enjoying the game then you have sh*tty taste in games. "




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#7 Nov 06 2010 at 10:44 PM Rating: Good
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Teneleven wrote:
Reebie wrote:
If i rate down its not because of someone liking the game, I'm still playing it too. :P Theres always a reason though.

Anyone want a rate up? (lol j/k)


There isn't always a reason. Some people are just rating down anyone that doesn't bash the game. Kind of sad really.


To be fair, there are also those who rate down any post that doesn't heap praise on the game.

Edited, Nov 7th 2010 12:44am by Zorvan
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#8 Nov 06 2010 at 11:47 PM Rating: Decent
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I completely agree with this, its immature, and down right rude to attack other people personally for how they feel about the game..

But honestly can we please have this work both ways. I see people daily getting personally attacked for even mentioning something negative about SE or FFXIV.
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#9 Nov 07 2010 at 1:12 AM Rating: Decent
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Pikko, You may want to pin this to the top for awhile for all parties to read and heed. A good warning for all posters on this board.
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#10 Nov 07 2010 at 1:19 AM Rating: Good
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Teneleven wrote:
Reebie wrote:
If i rate down its not because of someone liking the game, I'm still playing it too. :P Theres always a reason though.

Anyone want a rate up? (lol j/k)


There isn't always a reason. Some people are just rating down anyone that doesn't bash the game. Kind of sad really.
This seems to be the case. I'll even post about a bunch of problems I'd like to see fixed, but if I say anything about how SE probably will, or that anything else is still good I've been getting rated down for it.
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#11 Nov 07 2010 at 1:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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The problem with that is everyone seems to think they have the right to make their OWN thread because their thoughts on how crappy the game is are in no way like anyone else's. That's what led to the complaints thread in the first place. This place was being overrun with new threads that could have been accomplished with someone replying to another thread with quotes and a "This."
#12 Nov 07 2010 at 1:41 AM Rating: Excellent
The main forums recently have been getting a little crazy with flaming, and sometimes people feel it is a lot easier to rate down than articulate a responsible answer! I got rated down a few weeks ago for posting a link of a video of a song I thought sounded like the music from the Ul'Dah region. I felt proud of my 'excellent' ratings up till that point (well over 800 posts) and I always try to make a post that is relevant or adds something to the thread. I feel that our rating says something about our integrity and usefulness to the community in ZAM. After that incident I was a lot more cautious about posting anything, especially if it was pro or con FFXIV. So now I sit on the fence unless I feel so strongly about a topic that I have to post.
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#13 Nov 07 2010 at 1:51 AM Rating: Decent
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Pikko wrote:
For people that have quit, plan to quit, or just flat out stay here because they're bitter about the game, this is your notice that you are not to outright flame existing players just because they play the game. I am sick and tired of our community members being berated for liking something others don't.


Let me try something here.....

I played FFXI to endgame... I loved it...

Then I played WORLD OF WARCRAFT from Vanilla >>> LK Hard modes... I loved it..

I tried FFXIV... and I was completely disappointed...

Now I play WORLD OF WARCRAFT again... and I'm eagerly awaiting for December 7th!!!

Let's see how this "no berating" thing work...

My guess is that it's a one way street




#14 Nov 07 2010 at 2:03 AM Rating: Excellent
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Except for that to be the same, this would have to be WoW General.
#15 Nov 07 2010 at 2:13 AM Rating: Good
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Everytime someone says something about the karma system, we always got a working as intended from Kao. But now it's not?
#16 Nov 07 2010 at 2:24 AM Rating: Good
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Pikko wrote:
Except for that to be the same, this would have to be WoW General.


Yet I am a part of this community right?

Did I purchase the collectors edition of FFXIV? -yes

Did I make an account on this website? -yes

Do I like something that some players in this community do not like?? -yes


So regardless of this not being a "WoW General" forum, I am still a member of this (ffxiv) community that likes something that others may not. Furthermore, according to this new system, Being the huge WoW lover that I am, I am protected under this new -No-Berating- system also, and for that I thank you!

#17 Nov 07 2010 at 2:30 AM Rating: Good
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I like the WoW. I can level up. It's high tech and has the online.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpmy7Ze18NY&NR=1


Edited, Nov 7th 2010 3:31am by MisterBigglesworth
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#18 Nov 07 2010 at 2:33 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
For people that have quit, plan to quit, or just flat out stay here because they're bitter about the game, this is your notice that you are not to outright flame existing players just because they play the game. I am sick and tired of our community members being berated for liking something others don't.

If this happens to you without provocation, please use the report function and the offending post may be nuked if deemed to be harmful to our community. I would like to clarify that negative opinions *on the game itself* are still permitted, but ad hominem attacks of other ZAM members simply for playing/liking/enjoying an aspect of the game is no longer acceptable.


Flaming is ok as long as you don't flame people who like the game I like, whut?

Also is this flaming or rating down, if this is rating down LOL if you hate the system this forum lives on(that the people that run this site have defended for years when it has ALWAYS been misused) then simply freeze the rating system on this board, if it's so far into "leave britney alone territory" misuse the power you have to protect the game you personally like. I've posted on the FFXI boards for a long time now and I've never seen this level of admin protection, but then the players of that game never hated it as the populace of this one does(even if the admins or a small % of posters like it).

Alla turns into FFXICore in 5, 4, 3... I was under the impression being paid to be an admin meant you had to leave your own agenda at the door? Guess it means as much as people that do it for free and abuse the crap out of their position to skew the users of their forum into what they want instead.
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#19 Nov 07 2010 at 2:35 AM Rating: Decent
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I actually raged watching the video. The lady had it right the whole time is the irony of that video.



Edited, Nov 7th 2010 3:35am by Moxley
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#20 Nov 07 2010 at 2:44 AM Rating: Decent
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MisterBigglesworth wrote:
I like the WoW. I can level up. It's high tech and has the online.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpmy7Ze18NY&NR=1


Edited, Nov 7th 2010 3:31am by MisterBigglesworth



yeah that lady really got that SE fanboy raging didn't she...smh ctfu
#21 Nov 07 2010 at 2:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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It's amazing how much some people can miss the point.

It's one thing to have a discussion about the game. Whether that discussion is about liking or hating the game isn't being called into question or somehow censored.

It's becoming a problem when people just carpet bomb threads with rate downs and make posts for the sole purpose of rehashing tired opinions and inciting flamewars instead of making a real attempt to discuss the state of the game. "This game sucks and you're stupid if you like it" isn't discussion, it's trolling.

This is addressing the latter which has no place on a forum that's supposed to have (relatively) civilized discussion.

That isn't to say the people who still enjoy the game aren't innocent and absolved of having to tread a little more softly, but in fairness for people who seem to dislike the game so much the haters who claim to have quit sure spend a lot of time around the boards.
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#22 Nov 07 2010 at 2:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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preludes wrote:
Quote:
For people that have quit, plan to quit, or just flat out stay here because they're bitter about the game, this is your notice that you are not to outright flame existing players just because they play the game. I am sick and tired of our community members being berated for liking something others don't.

If this happens to you without provocation, please use the report function and the offending post may be nuked if deemed to be harmful to our community. I would like to clarify that negative opinions *on the game itself* are still permitted, but ad hominem attacks of other ZAM members simply for playing/liking/enjoying an aspect of the game is no longer acceptable.


Flaming is ok as long as you don't flame people who like the game I like, whut?

Also is this flaming or rating down, if this is rating down LOL if you hate the system this forum lives on(that the people that run this site have defended for years when it has ALWAYS been misused) then simply freeze the rating system on this board, if it's so far into "leave britney alone territory" misuse the power you have to protect the game you personally like. I've posted on the FFXI boards for a long time now and I've never seen this level of admin protection, but then the players of that game never hated it as the populace of this one does(even if the admins or a small % of posters like it).

Alla turns into FFXICore in 5, 4, 3... I was under the impression being paid to be an admin meant you had to leave your own agenda at the door? Guess it means as much as people that do it for free and abuse the crap out of their position to skew the users of their forum into what they want instead.

I think her point is that the posts should pertain to the game itself and not directed at the posters personally...At least that's what I got out of it. However, I have seen it happen both ways. In one thread, people get karma-bombed for saying something positive about the game. Yet in another thread the opposite is true. So personally, I agree with you that the rating system should be scrapped. The system is so easily abused it's not even funny. When you see someone's score go from good to default and back all in a few days, you begin to wonder if this peer-rating thing is really working as intended?
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#23 Nov 07 2010 at 3:24 AM Rating: Good
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preludes wrote:
Flaming is ok as long as you don't flame people who like the game I like, whut?


Maybe you could highlight the part of her post where she said that. I can't seem to find it...

Quote:
Also is this flaming or rating down, if this is rating down LOL if you hate the system this forum lives on(that the people that run this site have defended for years when it has ALWAYS been misused) then simply freeze the rating system on this board, if it's so far into "leave britney alone territory" misuse the power you have to protect the game you personally like. I've posted on the FFXI boards for a long time now and I've never seen this level of admin protection, but then the players of that game never hated it as the populace of this one does(even if the admins or a small % of posters like it).


It's not necessary to throw out the baby with the bath water. When I see my own posts in the Weekend Goals/Weekend Summary threads rated down I typically assume it's just someone toting around a grudge and rating down any post of mine that they see because it makes them feel better. I'm used to it. It's when they rate down every other post in the thread that someone needs a smack. Either they're karma bombing the thread because they're ****** off that anyone else is enjoying the game or they're karma bombing the thread because I started it and the idea of people finding some value in something I posted ****** them off that much more. Either way, it's inappropriate and it's directly contrary to the purpose of a community site for a specific game. I post those threads because they're simple, positive, non-controversial weekly contributions to the forum that everyone can take part in regardless of their likes/dislikes/general opinion. It was a tradition on another game forum here that was universally liked. There's nothing about those threads that warrants having anything in them rated down (except for people who post just to bait or otherwise stir up ****).

The karma system is supposed to be about contribution, not retribution. And you're right...this is the only ZAM game forum I've ever seen that has warranted an admin post putting people on notice about flaming and karma bombing. I wonder why that might be...
#24 Nov 07 2010 at 3:34 AM Rating: Decent
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MasterOutlaw the Irrelevant wrote:
It's amazing how much some people can miss the point.

It's one thing to have a discussion about the game. Whether that discussion is about liking or hating the game isn't being called into question or somehow censored.

It's becoming a problem when people just carpet bomb threads with rate downs and make posts for the sole purpose of rehashing tired opinions and inciting flamewars instead of making a real attempt to discuss the state of the game. "This game sucks and you're stupid if you like it" isn't discussion, it's trolling.

This is addressing the latter which has no place on a forum that's supposed to have (relatively) civilized discussion.

That isn't to say the people who still enjoy the game aren't innocent and absolved of having to tread a little more softly, but in fairness for people who seem to dislike the game so much the haters who claim to have quit sure spend a lot of time around the boards.


See your post sounded pretty legit until you contradicted yourself. Using haters as a derogatory term proves that you yourself are biased about how the game is perceived. The whole "haters" vs. "fanboys" debate will not go away, regardless of how intelligent the diction you surround it with.

Attempting to use collegiate level words to guise your sentiment only insinuates a minute level of intelligence, especially when referencing the opinions of individuals on a virtual social interaction board, such as a video game forum... cwatidid-der????

I quit after 3 weeks. I still check in here for 2 reasons....

Reason 1
Information:
Hopefully the game of my dreams one day will become the game of my dreams, but I might not have enough nights left to see that...

Reason 2
Entertainment:
Zam forums for ffxi were known as a source for great information..
Zam forums for ffxiv are known for a great source of drama and **********

Reason 3
Gratification:
After wasting $80 and being so dissapointed with this game in it's current state, I think the only pleasure I might get now, is watching this game crash and burn. That would bring my opinions validation and closure. Hey at least I'm honest right??? Just trying to get my moneys worth. Instead of looking forward to the magical update/patch.. I will be one of the people saying "I told you so"..

When it comes to mistakes.. like releasing a major mmo title too soon.. I cannot help but to think of this little proverb..

A stupid person never learns from their mistakes,
A smart person learns from their mistakes,
BUT,
A wise person learns from other's mistakes....

Can SE stop being stupid??? who knows!
#25 Nov 07 2010 at 4:00 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Maybe you could highlight the part of her post where she said that. I can't seem to find it...


Quote:
For people that have quit, plan to quit, or just flat out stay here because they're bitter about the game, this is your notice that you are not to outright flame existing players just because they play the game.


Notice this is aimed at one distinct portion of the posters here (and posting about them in a complaining fashion too) instead of what should be a blanket statment against flaming? As an admin you are supposed to state official posts like this to everyone not at people that don't like the game that you have shown multiple times to be very pro to. If I was an admin and posted this in the opposite way against fanbois are you saying people would not say the same given my past post history?

Quote:
The karma system is supposed to be about contribution, not retribution. And you're right...this is the only ZAM game forum I've ever seen that has warranted an admin post putting people on notice about flaming and karma bombing. I wonder why that might be...


The karma system has always been abused, friends rating friends up, people posting stuff they copy'n pasted from somewhere else to get rates up. It's always been abused and now that it's being complained about cause it is being used at odds to what certain people like(a small minority and some admins).

This is like someone posting "I like pretty flowers! ^-^" and someone rating it down cause it has nothing to do with anything and then others saying wtf I like pretty flowers too how dare you rate them down? RATE UP! nonsense. Thats how this rating system works and the fact people unhappy with the game rate up stuff that is inline with their opinions is using the rating system as intended, if thats not liked now then remove the rating system or freeze it on here.

I know how the rating system was supposed to work and the ideal behind it, it does not and has never worked that way. If the positive threads are good and posters like it how come they arent rated to excellent anyway, isnt the rating system the opinion of posters of these forum (regardless of what they think of the game).

As I said if the intention is to give a pretty gloss to the opinions this game has from the actual posters this forum has then block the rating system being used here. Then it won't be a forum for the posters on here it will be an extension of the PR dept of Square enix ltd, maybe thats the idea.
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#26 Nov 07 2010 at 4:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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EdyNOTB, pet mage of Jabober wrote:
After that incident I was a lot more cautious about posting anything, especially if it was pro or con FFXIV. So now I sit on the fence unless I feel so strongly about a topic that I have to post.


I just decided that as long as I don't lose my ability to rate people up who;ve been wrongly rated down, that I really don't care about my ratings here any more. I know that I might often not post things that people feel contribute, but my intent is almost always good. And that's good enough for me.
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#27 Nov 07 2010 at 5:39 AM Rating: Good
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Pikko wrote:
For people that have quit, plan to quit, or just flat out stay here because they're bitter about the game, this is your notice that you are not to outright flame existing players just because they play the game. I am sick and tired of our community members being berated for liking something others don't.

If this happens to you without provocation, please use the report function and the offending post may be nuked if deemed to be harmful to our community. I would like to clarify that negative opinions *on the game itself* are still permitted, but ad hominem attacks of other ZAM members simply for playing/liking/enjoying an aspect of the game is no longer acceptable.

I'm pointing to you guys that have been rating down the Weekend Accomplishment threads. Cut it out.


Totally agree on this, I am not a WoW fan, I played it, Didnt like it and I have never ventured in to the WoW Forums.

Is it me or is Pikko cute angry?
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#28 Nov 07 2010 at 5:40 AM Rating: Good
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Before every post people should just think of the saying "Treat others the way you want to be treated." So before posting think about if you would ever want a comment like that told to you.

I am just refering to the comments that are negative, but are geared to maybe make a person feel bad. I have no problem with people hating or loving the game, everyone's entitled to their opinion, but some comments seem to be aimed at belittleing a person in some of the topics.

So again "Treat others the way you want to be treated!" :)
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#29 Nov 07 2010 at 9:17 AM Rating: Default
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Pikko wrote:
For people that have quit, plan to quit, or just flat out stay here because they're bitter about the game, this is your notice that you are not to outright flame existing players just because they play the game. I am sick and tired of our community members being berated for liking something others don't.

If this happens to you without provocation, please use the report function and the offending post may be nuked if deemed to be harmful to our community. I would like to clarify that negative opinions *on the game itself* are still permitted, but ad hominem attacks of other ZAM members simply for playing/liking/enjoying an aspect of the game is no longer acceptable.

I'm pointing to you guys that have been rating down the Weekend Accomplishment threads. Cut it out.



This is the most ridiculous post I have read from an administrator in a good while. So what I have read from this thread and what everyone can infer from how threads have been going is that its ok for people who like the game to sing its praises all over the boards but when people are dissatisfied they have to post in one special thread.

Now you're saying that the disgruntled and dissatisfied are the ones flaming? Well each side flames at the other to be fair and there are more people who side with dissatisfied. Furthermore you say people who defend the game by flaming are protected?

Even Wada the CEO of SE said the game is unsatisfactory so I guess he would get a thread nuke for saying that by your definitions. Good job again ZAM.



Edited, Nov 7th 2010 10:58am by Brushy
#30 Nov 07 2010 at 10:07 AM Rating: Excellent
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It's already been mentioned several times, including in the OP, but this protection only applies to personal insults. You can talk about the game all you want, but you shouldn't say something derogatory about other posters because of how they feel.

Minor flame wars that would just abate naturally in a more established game can turn really nasty because such a large part of the community is dissatisfied. We all had really high hopes for the game. They're causing a lot of people to linger on the forums much longer than we would were this a less anticipated game, like me.

I'm part of the gawker crowd that is watching this game wreck in disbelief. It's just harder to walk away from an SE FF title than a lesser storied franchise. It probably bore repeating to all of the frustrated new posters on the forums that attacks directly on other people are not appropriate.
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#31 Nov 07 2010 at 10:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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I can agree with what Pikko is saying. I am tired of clicking on the threads that sound positive to only have them hijacked within the first page with how horrible the game is and how stupid and fanbois you are for playing it and having the guts to say something good about it.

Yes there are problems with the game but I am tired of reading about them in almost every thread.... I like the game even with the flaws.
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#32 Nov 07 2010 at 10:23 AM Rating: Good
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Xclusive215 wrote:


Reason 3
Gratification:
After wasting $80 and being so dissapointed with this game in it's current state, I think the only pleasure I might get now, is watching this game crash and burn. That would bring my opinions validation and closure. Hey at least I'm honest right??? Just trying to get my moneys worth. Instead of looking forward to the magical update/patch.. I will be one of the people saying "I told you so"..



This is what is making the Zam suck right now. Face it man, this isn't a site for people who hate FFXIV - it is a site for people who like it. You're ruining this community, and it isn't funny. Don't take your anger out on people who are enjoying the game. It isn't my fault you spent money on the game.
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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#33 Nov 07 2010 at 10:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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Thanks Pikko. I'm not sure who the crowd is, but it's become glaringly obvious there is one

Normally I don't really pay attention to the karma thing, but lately I can't help but notice that if I agree with a complaint or have one of my own, it's rate-up city. Once I say I'm giving the game a chance to get off the ground before I decide whether I'm going to keep playing, it's rate-down city.
Seems unless you say "this game sucks and is going to fail AND I'm not paying for a sub" you're targeted as an idiot, and flamed by the same people every time.
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#34 Nov 07 2010 at 10:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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Some people are not receiving this message at all...

2 points:

The Complaint Thread is an effort to reduce the repetitive negative posts. Believe it or not, it actually is annoying to some people when dead horse topics are brought up over and over again... A consolidated thread reduces most of the spam...

This post is simply stating that flaming other players is not tolerated... Specifically targetting people who don't play anymore and just come here to stir up trouble- since they really are NOT contributing to the community...

and it says right in the post that negative comments about the game are allowable... so not sure how you're trying to justify your position....
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#35 Nov 07 2010 at 10:36 AM Rating: Good
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Aurelius wrote:
preludes wrote:
Flaming is ok as long as you don't flame people who like the game I like, whut?


Maybe you could highlight the part of her post where she said that. I can't seem to find it...

Quote:
Also is this flaming or rating down, if this is rating down LOL if you hate the system this forum lives on(that the people that run this site have defended for years when it has ALWAYS been misused) then simply freeze the rating system on this board, if it's so far into "leave britney alone territory" misuse the power you have to protect the game you personally like. I've posted on the FFXI boards for a long time now and I've never seen this level of admin protection, but then the players of that game never hated it as the populace of this one does(even if the admins or a small % of posters like it).


It's not necessary to throw out the baby with the bath water. When I see my own posts in the Weekend Goals/Weekend Summary threads rated down I typically assume it's just someone toting around a grudge and rating down any post of mine that they see because it makes them feel better. I'm used to it. It's when they rate down every other post in the thread that someone needs a smack. Either they're karma bombing the thread because they're ****** off that anyone else is enjoying the game or they're karma bombing the thread because I started it and the idea of people finding some value in something I posted ****** them off that much more. Either way, it's inappropriate and it's directly contrary to the purpose of a community site for a specific game. I post those threads because they're simple, positive, non-controversial weekly contributions to the forum that everyone can take part in regardless of their likes/dislikes/general opinion. It was a tradition on another game forum here that was universally liked. There's nothing about those threads that warrants having anything in them rated down (except for people who post just to bait or otherwise stir up sh*t).

The karma system is supposed to be about contribution, not retribution. And you're right...this is the only ZAM game forum I've ever seen that has warranted an admin post putting people on notice about flaming and karma bombing. I wonder why that might be...


people hold a grudge against you because in many of your posts you blindly attack anyone who has a bad opinion of the game over and over. I don't venture into your weekend goals thread or most posts where people are enjoying themselves, they are entitled to enjoy themselves if they are more power to them.

this whole flame thing is out of hand and works both ways, the moment you say something negative about the game people say you want a wow clone and things handed to you when all you really want is a functional UI and not spending most of your game time looking for one item or getting some gear repaired.

this problem won't go away so easily, there are a lot of people dissatisfied with the game and a lot feel the need to lash out blindly.


Edited, Nov 7th 2010 11:36am by Lafaiel
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#36 Nov 07 2010 at 10:41 AM Rating: Good
***
1,636 posts
Quote:
It's already been mentioned several times, including in the OP, but this protection only applies to personal insults. You can talk about the game all you want, but you shouldn't say something derogatory about other posters because of how they feel.


Actually it seems that it only applies to personal attacks on people who *like* the game. If you don't like the game, you're still free to get crapped on.

Theres even a personal attack in the "no more personal attacks" thread.


Olorinus the Vile wrote:
Xclusive215 wrote:


Reason 3
Gratification:
After wasting $80 and being so dissapointed with this game in it's current state, I think the only pleasure I might get now, is watching this game crash and burn. That would bring my opinions validation and closure. Hey at least I'm honest right??? Just trying to get my moneys worth. Instead of looking forward to the magical update/patch.. I will be one of the people saying "I told you so"..



This is what is making the Zam suck right now. Face it man, this isn't a site for people who hate FFXIV - it is a site for people who like it. You're ruining this community, and it isn't funny. Don't take your anger out on people who are enjoying the game. It isn't my fault you spent money on the game.

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#37 Nov 07 2010 at 10:50 AM Rating: Decent
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2,815 posts
Uhm Pikko I've seen more die-hard-refuse-to-admit-the-game-is-bad players flaming than people who quit...
Anytime anyone says something TRUE about the problems in the game, they're labeled as a WOW fanboy/quitter that's sticking around the forums and flamed to a roasty perfection.

One-sided warning is one-sided.
But this isn't the first time the site admins demonstrate a strong bias.

Edited, Nov 7th 2010 11:53am by RattyBatty
____________________________
Minecraft : My anti-MMO
Terraria : My anti-Minecraft
#38 Nov 07 2010 at 10:52 AM Rating: Good
*****
11,576 posts
preludes wrote:
Quote:
Maybe you could highlight the part of her post where she said that. I can't seem to find it...


Quote:
For people that have quit, plan to quit, or just flat out stay here because they're bitter about the game, this is your notice that you are not to outright flame existing players just because they play the game.


Notice this is aimed at one distinct portion of the posters here (and posting about them in a complaining fashion too) instead of what should be a blanket statment against flaming? As an admin you are supposed to state official posts like this to everyone not at people that don't like the game that you have shown multiple times to be very pro to. If I was an admin and posted this in the opposite way against fanbois are you saying people would not say the same given my past post history?


I think you're seeing what you want to see. Pretty clear to me that she's saying that if you're going to take a shot at someone, you need a better reason than simply because they're playing and enjoying the game, not that the only people who are allowed to take shots are the ones enjoying the game and the ones who aren't enjoying it have to just sit there and take it. But in order for you to have understood it in based on what she had typed, you'd have had to exercise some objectivity (aka a lack of bias), and we both know there's little of that here.

Quote:
Quote:
The karma system is supposed to be about contribution, not retribution. And you're right...this is the only ZAM game forum I've ever seen that has warranted an admin post putting people on notice about flaming and karma bombing. I wonder why that might be...


The karma system has always been abused, friends rating friends up, people posting stuff they copy'n pasted from somewhere else to get rates up. It's always been abused and now that it's being complained about cause it is being used at odds to what certain people like(a small minority and some admins).


Nice conspiracy theory, guy. The admins are responsible for preserving this as a place where people who want to discuss the game can. And preference has to be given to those who are discussing the game because they're playing it and enjoying it. So if someone is trying to discuss the game and they're getting karma bombed and flamed because people who don't like the game resent them for finding enjoyment in it, do you not think it's appropriate for those admins to step in?

I have nothing against the admins here on a personal level. Not one of them. Based on the history of these specific boards, however, I think the admins let an awful lot of ******** slide in favor of the XI community at the expense of people from other gaming communities who came here wanting to discuss a new game and were met with the exact same treatment that people who enjoy XIV are frequently getting now. Better late than never. These aren't general game discussion boards...ZAM has a separate category for those. These boards, by label and by intent, are for people to come here and discuss XIV. People who keep bringing up the same dead horse topics in new thread after new thread and hijack after hijack are not contributing. And when it goes so far as to start driving out the people who are contributing]/b], something needs to be done.

My hat's off to the admins for making the right call.
#39 Nov 07 2010 at 11:03 AM Rating: Decent
*****
11,576 posts
Lafaiel wrote:
people hold a grudge against you because in many of your posts you blindly attack anyone who has a bad opinion of the game over and over. I don't venture into your weekend goals thread or most posts where people are enjoying themselves, they are entitled to enjoy themselves if they are more power to them.


Be careful how you throw around the word "blindly." I'll challenge the opinion of people who bring up dead horse whines, or people who whine about something they obviously don't understand. If you see it as "blindly attacking" them simply because they have a bad opinion of the game, remedial reading courses or a seminar in objectivity might be in order for you. It wouldn't be hard to find posts of mine where I've openly criticized aspects of the game or posts of mine where I've pointed out that I've canceled my sub. So put your logic hat on for a moment and ask me if you really think it makes sense to label me as a blind fan as someone whose subscription is set to expire in two weeks unless I see indication that SE is clearly on the right track. I don't think you can.

Quote:
this whole flame thing is out of hand and works both ways, the moment you say something negative about the game people say you want a wow clone and things handed to you when all you really want is a functional UI and not spending most of your game time looking for one item or getting some gear repaired.


I haven't seen the term "wow clone" used here since before launch. There are a lot of whines that are common right now that do stem from people wanting an easy ride to the cap. See? I make that distinction. I don't challenge opinions "just because" someone dislikes the game. People want faster SP. I say lol. From the community who chased out the "WoW fanbois" for their "easy" game that you could level to the cap so fast and now they're six weeks in and ****** that they're only rank 27. Boo. Hoo. That has nothing to do with them complaining on principle. That has to do with hypocrisy and impatience. Can you make that distinction?
#40 Nov 07 2010 at 11:08 AM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
******
21,739 posts
Pikko wrote:
For people that have quit, plan to quit, or just flat out stay here because they're bitter about the game, this is your notice that you are not to outright flame existing players just because they play the game. I am sick and tired of our community members being berated for liking something others don't.

If this happens to you without provocation, please use the report function and the offending post may be nuked if deemed to be harmful to our community. I would like to clarify that negative opinions *on the game itself* are still permitted, but ad hominem attacks of other ZAM members simply for playing/liking/enjoying an aspect of the game is no longer acceptable.

I'm pointing to you guys that have been rating down the Weekend Accomplishment threads. Cut it out.
What about people that still play the game flaming people who have problems with it?
____________________________
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#41 Nov 07 2010 at 11:19 AM Rating: Good
**
315 posts
I agree with OP.
no one is saying the game is flawless. the ppl who like it and the ppl who don't like it. But really it is time to stop shoving the flaws down people throats. Or over state your hate for a game like the person reason three. That can be an insult to players. This is a fan forum to talk about the game. If you not a fan, why bother posting?
those who dislike the are acting like ffxiv is they ex g/f that they love to hate. When will enough be enough?
Sure you wanted the game to be good, sure you had way to high expectations, and sure you spent an arm and a leg to play the game. That is your fault, not SE, not the fansites. True mmo players know even if a game has flaws, those flaws will be fixed. SE made some mistakes and did have issues that prolong the alpha and b1 stage. On ffxivcore.com its pretty bad and the admin are banning fans to protect the flamers.

But yes treat others who you like to be treated. As well as understand EVERYONE knows the game has flaws, please don't shove them down our throats, watch how you "hate" on the game so you're not insulting others secretively. Like that guys reason three. As that can be flaming players.
____________________________
can you ware shoes in clown shoes
#42 Nov 07 2010 at 11:22 AM Rating: Decent
Avatar
***
2,045 posts
Quote:
This is what is making the Zam suck right now. Face it man, this isn't a site for people who hate FFXIV - it is a site for people who like it. You're ruining this community, and it isn't funny. Don't take your anger out on people who are enjoying the game. It isn't my fault you spent money on the game.


In total honesty, it's neither. This is a forum to discuss the game for better or worse as directed by the majority of it's posters, this is not a fanboi forum because if it was anyone that said anything negative would of been banned, ie. ffxivcore.

Like it or lump it, the game gets the forum discussions it deserves. FFXIV deserves the kinds of topics it gets on almost every single forum across the internet because it was released without any respect for the players and it had a large following.
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BANNED
#43 Nov 07 2010 at 11:28 AM Rating: Excellent
****
9,526 posts
preludes wrote:
Quote:
This is what is making the Zam suck right now. Face it man, this isn't a site for people who hate FFXIV - it is a site for people who like it. You're ruining this community, and it isn't funny. Don't take your anger out on people who are enjoying the game. It isn't my fault you spent money on the game.


In total honesty, it's neither. This is a forum to discuss the game for better or worse as directed by the majority of it's posters, this is not a fanboi forum because if it was anyone that said anything negative would of been banned, ie. ffxivcore.

Like it or lump it, the game gets the forum discussions it deserves. FFXIV deserves the kinds of topics it gets on almost every single forum across the internet because it was released without any respect for the players and it had a large following.


There is a difference between discussing the game and going "neener neener neener - the game is going down in flames! HA HA!"

Quote:
Reason 3
Gratification:
After wasting $80 and being so dissapointed with this game in it's current state, I think the only pleasure I might get now, is watching this game crash and burn. That would bring my opinions validation and closure. Hey at least I'm honest right??? Just trying to get my moneys worth. Instead of looking forward to the magical update/patch.. I will be one of the people saying "I told you so"..



This is not discussion of the game - it is trolling.
____________________________
lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#44 Nov 07 2010 at 11:38 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
421 posts
Aurelius wrote:
Lafaiel wrote:
people hold a grudge against you because in many of your posts you blindly attack anyone who has a bad opinion of the game over and over. I don't venture into your weekend goals thread or most posts where people are enjoying themselves, they are entitled to enjoy themselves if they are more power to them.


Be careful how you throw around the word "blindly." I'll challenge the opinion of people who bring up dead horse whines, or people who whine about something they obviously don't understand. If you see it as "blindly attacking" them simply because they have a bad opinion of the game, remedial reading courses or a seminar in objectivity might be in order for you. It wouldn't be hard to find posts of mine where I've openly criticized aspects of the game or posts of mine where I've pointed out that I've canceled my sub. So put your logic hat on for a moment and ask me if you really think it makes sense to label me as a blind fan as someone whose subscription is set to expire in two weeks unless I see indication that SE is clearly on the right track. I don't think you can.

Quote:
this whole flame thing is out of hand and works both ways, the moment you say something negative about the game people say you want a wow clone and things handed to you when all you really want is a functional UI and not spending most of your game time looking for one item or getting some gear repaired.


I haven't seen the term "wow clone" used here since before launch. There are a lot of whines that are common right now that do stem from people wanting an easy ride to the cap. See? I make that distinction. I don't challenge opinions "just because" someone dislikes the game. People want faster SP. I say lol. From the community who chased out the "WoW fanbois" for their "easy" game that you could level to the cap so fast and now they're six weeks in and ****** that they're only rank 27. Boo. Hoo. That has nothing to do with them complaining on principle. That has to do with hypocrisy and impatience. Can you make that distinction?


I have seen you post your concerns of the game before, but you do a lot of name calling on here, I'm just pointing out why people go for your threads to karma bomb them. you can't even reply to my post without a putting a bit of venom into it.
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#45 Nov 07 2010 at 11:41 AM Rating: Excellent
****
9,526 posts
KujaKoF wrote:

Theres even a personal attack in the "no more personal attacks" thread.



How is that a personal attack?

He is saying he comes to the board to troll.

I am saying that adds nothing to the community and isn't a good reason for coming here.

That isn't a personal attack.

THIS is a personal attack:

ketrel wrote:
Olorinus, how I would love to live in your world. A world that is contrary to reality where this game is actually fun. I cant force myself to log back in. I wish I could I love the franchise but cant find the motivation. Every one who has played it has accepted that it sucks. Regardless of the players needing to establish a base in order to craft the more advanced items. (btw you know what helps with that? An AH!!) Who gives a sh*t weather the game got a 3/10 4/10 or 5/10 the game still fails.

Does the game have potential? Yeah it really does but, I'm not sure it will reach its potential under these circumstances. As it stands the game is horrible, SE is panicking and the players are leaving. Do you know what kind of a monumental failure it is to make SE lose 75% of its earnings? Granted its not ALL of ffxiv's fault but a good portion is.
Can you understand how bad a failure must be to causes some one to sell $26,000,000 in SE stock?

Stop defending it, this game sucks (right now) and nothing you say is going to make it stop sucking. If you are enjoying the game then you have sh*tty taste in games. This is an overwhelming cry by the entire gaming community/reviewers/SE them-selfs.

Quote:
I hit fatigue during the first week I played when I was on vacation from work and only left the house for food and barely bathed or in any way left the computer screen.


I dont know why I find this behavior acceptable from a guy and utterly disgusting from a girl. I do hope your married.


It is also sexism.

Edited, Nov 7th 2010 9:42am by Olorinus
____________________________
lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#46 Nov 07 2010 at 11:44 AM Rating: Excellent
**
568 posts
preludes wrote:
Quote:
This is what is making the Zam suck right now. Face it man, this isn't a site for people who hate FFXIV - it is a site for people who like it. You're ruining this community, and it isn't funny. Don't take your anger out on people who are enjoying the game. It isn't my fault you spent money on the game.


In total honesty, it's neither. This is a forum to discuss the game for better or worse as directed by the majority of it's posters, this is not a fanboi forum because if it was anyone that said anything negative would of been banned, ie. ffxivcore.

Like it or lump it, the game gets the forum discussions it deserves. FFXIV deserves the kinds of topics it gets on almost every single forum across the internet because it was released without any respect for the players and it had a large following.



This actually made me go and check out FFXIVcore.com !
I don't know if it's because of what you mentioned but there people actually talk about the game.
I'm really sad to see ZAM in the state that it is and I do think you guys are the best resource when it comes to in-game info.

But the negative vibe I've sensed over the past couple of months is just too much. And I've decided to read other sites for the time being.

I hope when the free trial ends all these people complaining in the forums have stopped playing or found out about your feedback section.

Right now it's like going to the gym with some fat kid sitting next to the treadmill screaming "Running sucks! Waah!" over and over.
#47 Nov 07 2010 at 11:47 AM Rating: Excellent
****
9,526 posts
seiferdincht wrote:
Right now it's like going to the gym with some fat kid sitting next to the treadmill screaming "Running sucks! Waah!" over and over.


QFT
____________________________
lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#48 Nov 07 2010 at 11:49 AM Rating: Good
***
2,120 posts
Olorinus the Vile wrote:
seiferdincht wrote:
Right now it's like going to the gym with some fat kid sitting next to the treadmill screaming "Running sucks! Waah!" over and over.


QFT


Spot on & hilarious...
____________________________

#49 Nov 07 2010 at 11:50 AM Rating: Excellent
9 posts
Admins;

Instead of a Complaints topic how about a Complaints/Flame board and simply move flame threads into it.

KI used that setup for FFXI and it worked fine, for the most part keeps everyone happy and the General Discussion Forum clean and neat. (During DRG and RNG nerfs it was common for half of the post in General Discuss to be moved to Flame Wars because that's where those topics led).

Just an idea I wanted to toss out there

*edited to add spacing (hate wall o text)

Edited, Nov 7th 2010 12:56pm by Xenosan
#50 Nov 07 2010 at 11:53 AM Rating: Decent
*
156 posts
ya i don't even know how to rate lol, but ya the flaming goes both ways
____________________________
KitsurubamiSouzahara wrote:
This is all just a fanboy civil war. Some are hurt that SE gave them such a crap game, the others are hurt that anyone would call it crap.
#51 Nov 07 2010 at 12:08 PM Rating: Decent
*****
11,576 posts
Lafaiel wrote:
I have seen you post your concerns of the game before, but you do a lot of name calling on here, I'm just pointing out why people go for your threads to karma bomb them. you can't even reply to my post without a putting a bit of venom into it.


I know why people go after me and any thread I start. Please don't think you're presenting me with any new information. And if I know and my posting style is still the same, it stands to reason that I don't particularly care. I give anyone who can form a coherent post the benefit of the doubt that they've got some basic understanding of how things work until they demonstrate otherwise. For as much as my venom and vitriol occasionally gets out of control, the defensive ignorance around here occasionally runs rampant. Not every rant or vent needs a, "there, there, you were in the right." Sometimes people need to face reality so they can correct the situation that's bothering them or at least accept that it's not going to change. And if they want to fire back and rant and lob insults at me, I can play that game, too. I get labeled the villain because I'm tenacious and I don't back down, but if you look at all of the threads that have gone from "QQ" to "RAGE!!" where I've had a hand to play, it's usually someone barking at me for telling them something they didn't want to hear that sets it all off.
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