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#102 Nov 07 2010 at 5:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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Its not the meaningful discussion they are trying to curb.

Its people NOT being able to have the meaningful discussions they are trying to stop.
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#103 Nov 07 2010 at 5:45 PM Rating: Good
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At least when I'm a prick, I admit it.


Smiley: dubious
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#104 Nov 07 2010 at 5:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:

Nothing logical in your assertion there. Nothing at all. And yes, when you generalize everyone who doesn't share your point of view on this particular subject as living a lie and suggesting they be given a bubble of ignorance in which to live doesn't exactly endear you to people.

At least when I'm a prick, I admit it.

What would you call such a place? Ignorance is "not knowing", thus a bubble of 'not knowing' or seeing none of the factual negativity = a bubble of ignorance. Does not mean I called anyone ignorant. And I stand by my point that is is the only 'solution' they can have any control over. Setting aside a forum section where only positive sentiment is allowed, because it is the minority and thus makes more sense to have a special section for, than the majority which would be interested in a forum section called GENERAL discussion.

Besides you focused on one post, how does that give people carte-blanche to then red arrow every time they see my name? I would love for admins to ask people that rate down most of my posts to have to back it up with a valid reason from the rules. I would say over 80% of the time they wouldn't be able to come up with anything besides "I don't like him".

That is not the point of the rate down button. Although I'm personally not bothered because I automatically take a rate down as a "I don't like you but can't argue with your point". Still it's BS that it's happening in this very thread and goes unpunished. Maybe if i was defending the admins and the game, I would be safe. There's my point again.

Edited, Nov 7th 2010 6:58pm by RattyBatty
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#105 Nov 07 2010 at 5:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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Some people just can't get over complaining. Again, here we have a thread with some people complaining about something because they don't UNDERSTAND it. I'm not gonna name names, but people really aren't thinking things out before they post.

If your " i like FF XIV" post is being obsessively rated down it's a problem.
If your " i hate FF XIV' post is being obsessively rated down it's a problem.

If you posted one of these 2 threads, and someone called you a moron for it, report it.

The karma bombing is senseless, but not the subject of the OP. Flaming people is. In this case, Flaming people for liking the game on a forum dedicated to said game.

There are some people who get flamed for not liking the game. This is far less a problem than the latter, but still a problem.

So... if you are being flamed, USE THE REPORT FUNCTION. This applies to EVERYONE. Being emotional because of the state of the game is no longer an excuse.

Edited, Nov 7th 2010 6:56pm by Teneleven
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#106 Nov 07 2010 at 5:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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If you need an explanation, I rated you down earlier for taking my comment about being mean because the game sucks as an excuse for being malicious to others as me saying anything negative that you've ever said about the game was just you being malicious. Please point out to me how that is logical and well-thought out.
#107 Nov 07 2010 at 5:59 PM Rating: Good
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I don't understand what's so controversial about this, so let me distill it down.

It's okay to like or dislike the game, and it's okay to say that you like or dislike the game. It's not okay to assume that your opinion is "the truth" and use that as an excuse to flame and berate other people just because they have a different preference.

If some one says "I like the crafting system" you are free to disagree with them and state why you don't like the crafting system. You're not free to say "people like you who like the crafting system are idiots who don't know what you're talking about!"

Also, you should consider, if you literally cannot find ANYTHING positive to say about the game or the people who make it, play it, etc, what you are even doing on this forum. I mean look, I think Jay Leno sucks, and his show sucks, but I don't go to his web site every day to tell him and his fans how much they suck. I don't do it because a) I'm never going to convince every one that Jay Leno sucks and b) even if I did, what's the point?

If you really hate FF14 that much, the only thing that has any chance of making you happy is to forget that FF14 exists. Coming here every day to remind yourself that FF14 is still here and people still like it is just going to raise your blood pressure for no good reason.


Edited, Nov 7th 2010 7:02pm by KarlHungis

Edited, Nov 7th 2010 7:02pm by KarlHungis
#108 Nov 07 2010 at 6:01 PM Rating: Good
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RattyBatty wrote:
Quote:

Nothing logical in your assertion there. Nothing at all. And yes, when you generalize everyone who doesn't share your point of view on this particular subject as living a lie and suggesting they be given a bubble of ignorance in which to live doesn't exactly endear you to people.

At least when I'm a prick, I admit it.
And I stand by my point that is is the only 'solution' they can have any control over. Setting aside a forum section where only positive sentiment is allowed, because it is the minority and thus makes more sense to have a special section for, than the majority which would be interested in a forum section called GENERAL discussion.


I can't say that I agree. I suspect that after a month or so, most people that still aren't enjoying the game will leave this forum. Many are still in the emotional, upset stages...eventually logic will take over and they'll make a value judgement one way or the other. Once things settle down, the forum will be populated primarily by those still garnering mostly enjoyment from FFXIV. Those not enjoying the game (myself included) will slowly find their way out. Positive sentiment shouldn't be quarantined.

I don't really see anything wrong with how the admins have been handling things. As long as reasoned, polite discussions for any attitude are left untouched, it's all copacetic to me.
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#109 Nov 07 2010 at 6:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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I mean look, I think Jay Leno sucks, and his show sucks, but I don't go to his web site every day to tell him and his fans how much they suck. I don't do it because a) I'm never going to convince every one that Jay Leno sucks and b) even if I did, what's the point?


I hate the Lakers, but sometimes I still watch them because, deep down, ****, do I respect them.

Still, I don't log on to Lakers fan sites and whine about how much I hate them.

Edit: For the sake of full disclosure, I occasionally troll an Oregon State football forum, but those Beaver fans literally beg for it!

Edited, Nov 7th 2010 4:03pm by Thayos
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#110 Nov 07 2010 at 6:02 PM Rating: Good
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If you need an explanation, I rated you down earlier for taking my comment about being mean because the game sucks as an excuse for being malicious to others as me saying anything negative that you've ever said about the game was just you being malicious. Please point out to me how that is logical and well-thought out.


Is that directed at me? Because I really don't understand what you're talking about.
Quote:
I rated you down earlier for taking my comment ... as an excuse for being malicious to others

When was I malicious to anyone?? How did i take your comment as a reason to be malicious? Huh?

And if you think I was defending others who are, you REALLY skimmed my posts. I specifically set those people apart from the ones that are genuinely expressing well thought out and non-waste-of-space posts. As that other guy said my only gripe was that your post was only directed at one part of the community, and afforded no threat against those who continue to rate down and flame the less pleasing side of the debates. Also the side-point that you were blaming these people for the downbeat mood in the forums, which I pointed out is because the game is causing this to happen, not flamers.

I hate pointless flamers, people that can't hold up an intelligent argument, and those who are quick to hate just because you're from the 'other camp'. I'm all about discussion and uncensored exchange of ideas, equality, and above all truth. These are the values that are the reason for a public forum, I only speak against the admins in cases where that is not being upheld, and felt this was one such case.

Anyone that thinks I'm one of the problematic forum trolls needs to seriously go though my post history and see 'how often' I swoop in just to cause trouble, rather than contribute something of meaning to a conversation. I've been a member of these forums for years and 90% of my post count has been constructive, informative, well written posts. I'd say only a handful of times did i lose my patience with someone that just won't get off my back, while not providing any meaningful material to the conversation. Then I might just turn into an *** and rip them up.

As I asked before, where's the admin backup for people like me? Instead I get apparently rated down by Pikko herself just for making the point that the OP was one-sided..

Seriously.
Quote:
Positive sentiment shouldn't be quarantined.

To clarify I wasnt suggesting quarantine of positivity, it could still be allowed anywhere else. What I meant was a section where ONLY positivity is allowed, so those people so bothered by the negative vibe have a safe refuge to still visit the forums (Although as i said it would be a false view on the state of the FFXIV world)

Edited, Nov 7th 2010 7:17pm by RattyBatty

Edited, Nov 7th 2010 7:45pm by RattyBatty
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#111 Nov 07 2010 at 6:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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Thayos wrote:
I hate the Lakers


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(I didn't read the rest. You had me at "I hate the Lakers.")
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#112 Nov 07 2010 at 6:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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As one of the general, grey, apparently unrepresented non-vocal portion of the ZAM FFXIV forums, I applaud this request from the admins.

Enjoyment and happiness and general tomfoolery, interspersed with the random comment from somebody new who can't figure the simplest thing out, is how a forum should look. This forum looks a lot like a place nobody wants to hang out. There's no point, there's not even a reason to try and contribute, because the crazies have control of the asylum.

The vocal ones are the minority, negative and positive alike. The rest of us who make up the majority do not need to be asked to shuffle off into our own little happy place - we don't say anything and so require no bubble-wrapped area. I simply would like to see less vitriol from the four or five members who consistently post the same opinion over and over again, saying nothing new, offering nothing helpful. If it takes an admin to point out it's crossed the line, I'll stand up and applaud for common sense.

I'd like to enjoy some tiny sense of community here, instead of having to open every thread with my hazmat suit on.

#113Taemek, Posted: Nov 07 2010 at 6:23 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Imho, you guys/gals who are Admins should consider removing the rating system and have the scoring system based of those who help give feed back on itemization and such that people go out of there way to update in the data base.
#114 Nov 07 2010 at 6:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Everyone has different things that they enjoy doing for entertainment. Healthy, respectful discussions on such activities (whether positive or negative) are good discussions. Being an *** (and I'll admit, I have gotten frustrated lately and have posted/rated things I should not have I apologize for those affected who did not deserve it) is not going to create a healthy community.

I typically get amused (or frustrated, depending on how much other stuff's on my plate) at my post history. Last week I watched a block of comment go from decent (where all my posts start nowadays because I support the ward economy over AH) to excellent then down to decent or default in about 24 hours. Some of those posts do deserve it, others might not.

The forums seem to be able as energized as a politics forum.
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#115 Nov 07 2010 at 6:26 PM Rating: Decent
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Taemek wrote:
Imho, you guys/gals who are Admins should consider removing the rating system and have the scoring system based of those who help give feed back on itemization and such that people go out of there way to update in the data base.

What this will do is push the focus onto the game itself more so then clawing at each others throats cause my opinion > thiers....

Rating systems in public forums will only ever intice a form of griefing. As we have pointed out in numerous other threads, today's gamers are your and because of this, spiteful. Example, "I don't like what you said too me, well guess what, rate down time for you mister..."

Edited, Nov 7th 2010 7:24pm by Taemek


Good Lord, Pikko's already said that's above her pay grade.

Would I be in the right for rating down such an asinine post?
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#116 Nov 07 2010 at 6:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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RattyBatty wrote:
Well all this time I was advocating for better change to the game, turns out I was being malicious! Glad I posted enough in the last months to fill a small book, all in the name of malice.


Since you've asked, this is what I am pointing at.

Also, I edited my OP over an hour ago to include everyone and also replied saying that I should have said it applied universally. But instead of replying to those posts, you appear to have not read them at all.

Also, NO, you were not a problematic troll at all. In fact, I regarded you as a pretty good member, but you sure are giving me a grade 1 migraine today.

Edited, Nov 7th 2010 2:31pm by Pikko
#117 Nov 07 2010 at 6:28 PM Rating: Default
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think time to polish the ban hammer. People are using this thread as an excyse to flame those who flame on flaming personal attacks. Its gotten to the point where you can say someone is a troll having another troll go "OMG PERSONAL ATTACK /REPORT.!!!"

maybe start banning those who troll. Or start giving posters warning. We don't need the imaturity. We don't need the insults we are a human and should be treated as such. Internet and the /anon from it is a pretty poor excuse to being a cyber bully over a video game. Which is a pathetic excuse to insult people.

What ever you do, do try to have fun.

Good luck. <3
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#118 Nov 07 2010 at 6:39 PM Rating: Decent
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RattyBatty wrote:
What would you call such a place? Ignorance is "not knowing", thus a bubble of 'not knowing' or seeing none of the factual negativity = a bubble of ignorance. Does not mean I called anyone ignorant. And I stand by my point that is is the only 'solution' they can have any control over. Setting aside a forum section where only positive sentiment is allowed, because it is the minority and thus makes more sense to have a special section for, than the majority which would be interested in a forum section called GENERAL discussion.


Seems to me like you got caught flat footed and now it's time for a little backpeddling. You just refuse to acknowledge the point, don't you? This is a fan site. Not every fan of something is going to like every aspect of that thing. And so there will be discussions and debates and misunderstandings and sometimes things will get heated and that's par for the course for pretty much every ZAM game forum. But when the cause of the disagreement isn't "No, you're wrong, that IS an exploit..." (*snicker*) and instead it becomes, "No, you're a moron, this game is terrible" then the person making blanket statements about the entire game being terrible is obviously not a fan of the game, and their presence stirring up **** on a fan site is questionable. And when too many people like that start driving away the fans, something needs to change.

This isn't a General Final Fantasy forum. It's not a Square Enix forum. It's not a "Place to Hang Out and Stir Up **** Until SE Makes a Game I Like" forum. It's a Final Fantasy XIV forum, and when people who play FFXIV and enjoy some or all of it decide they don't want to be here anymore because of the way they're treated by people who don't like the game, something needs to change. Period. That's me telling you "the truth" and you can accept it or reject it as you see fit but I can tell you right now that what you can't do is present a cogent argument to the contrary.

It's been explained. It's been re-explained. It's been explained by different people. It's been explained directly. It's been explained with analogies. It's been explained from every possible angle. If you're still not understanding, I would surmise it's because you feel like you're being told to STFU and your emotional response to that is to fight whether you've got a leg to stand on or not (hint: you don't). At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what you think, or whether or not you're willing/able to understand what is being said here because it seems to me that the admins have a pretty clear sense of direction in terms of what is going to happen here until things settle down, and you'll either work with them or you won't, and your choice in that regard will determine what (if any) consequences you'll create for yourself along the way.

Quote:
Besides you focused on one post, how does that give people carte-blanche to then red arrow every time they see my name? I would love for admins to ask people that rate down most of my posts to have to back it up with a valid reason from the rules. I would say over 80% of the time they wouldn't be able to come up with anything besides "I don't like him".


Umm...you forget who you're talking to here? Back when I had premium here, I had my journal karma bombed, ffs. You remember my build blog for my PC? Yup...every post rated down. I've answered simple questions with simple answers that didn't contain or require any speculation or subjective consideration and been rated down because someone was ****** off at me for poking holes in their brilliant idea to control the economy two weeks prior. It happens. The idea is that if your contribution is truly non-offensive, accurate, and is either helpful or, at worst, doesn't cause any harm, then someone else will come along and correct it. And if they don't, that's your hint to either adjust your approach or (in my case) carry on and be prepared to accept the consequences.

Quote:
That is not the point of the rate down button. Although I'm personally not bothered because I automatically take a rate down as a "I don't like you but can't argue with your point". Still it's BS that it's happening in this very thread and goes unpunished. Maybe if i was defending the admins and the game, I would be safe. There's my point again.


Now you're just playing the victim. The critics and karma terrorists who despise the game had a couple of weeks of carte blanche to **** up the boards to their liking and now it's time to move on. The only people being targeted are the ones **** bent on keeping this place negative until the game changes to their liking. SE should be the target of their angst, but instead they choose to take it out on the players. Whether or not you choose to accept that is not my concern.
#119 Nov 07 2010 at 6:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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Regarding which side is in the majority, I'd like to point out our front page poll results in which 40% of 469 people intend to continue playing regardless of the extra 30 days.

Attacks from both sides are causing less people to post and the people less likely to post are the people that feel disheartened by what they see (supporters). Angry people read the forums and it makes them more passionate, thus, they post more. In posting more, it seems like they've come to the conclusion that this is their playground and they can do whatever they like to the people that come to ride the swings. This your community, yes, but it's up to us to make sure there's no pushing people into sandboxes or standing around the monkey bars so that no one can use them.
#120 Nov 07 2010 at 6:53 PM Rating: Good
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Also, NO, you were not a problematic troll at all. In fact, I regarded you as a pretty good member, but you sure are giving me a grade 1 migraine today.

Sadly that happens to those sitting across the debate table from me, I'm a tough debater and respect others who bother to discuss. Wasn't my intention to cause you problems Pikk, sadly you were the one that posted the thread today. It's good that the OP got edited. The extra posts were more about the discussion that came out of my first comment.

Also +1 to the next guy's final point.

Oh also : Veiled in one of my replies was the following statement which I'll make official here:
I also have been feeling more hostility from the FFXIV forums, and such am only popping in once a day now to skim for hot topics. So you're not just losing the "Be happy" crowd over this mess, and they're certainly not the only ones feeling oppressed around here. (That was regarding your statement that you've only seen complaints from 'their side' of the forums.)

Edited, Nov 7th 2010 8:04pm by RattyBatty
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#121 Nov 07 2010 at 6:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Pikko here is where I completely disagree with you.

Change does not come from acceptance. There should never have been a "complaints department thread". Be admins and help the now MAJORITY of the community that doesn't like the game voice this to SE. Front page the negativity, that is directly the result of Square Enix's failings in this game. The people who don't like the game ARE apart of your community Pikko. We want a better game that we can actually enjoy playing with you and be positive about.
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#122 Nov 07 2010 at 7:01 PM Rating: Decent
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Moxley wrote:
Pikko here is where I completely disagree with you.

Change does not come from acceptance. There should never have been a "complaints department thread". Be admins and help the now MAJORITY of the community that doesn't like the game voice this to SE. Front page the negativity, that is directly the result of Square Enix's failings in this game. The people who don't like the game ARE apart of your community Pikko. We want a better game that we can actually enjoy playing with you and be positive about.


Why does it need to be at the expense of the people enjoying some or all of the game? Why are you unable to forward your feedback to SE through the feedback and suggestion forums here or through the feedback option on the member's site and leave the people playing and enjoying the game alone? Why can you not accept that all the dead horse issues are now things SE is aware of? Why do we need another thread about the terrible, horrible, makes-me-want-to-cut-myself UI when SE has told us that they're working on it? Why do people who say they can live with the UI now while they wait for changes deserve to be ridiculed?

No, it's not the admins' job to do your communicating for you. And it's not in the best interest of the admins to let the people who are fans now be driven away by people who might be fans in a few months.
#123 Nov 07 2010 at 7:03 PM Rating: Decent
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Moxley wrote:
Pikko here is where I completely disagree with you.

Change does not come from acceptance. There should never have been a "complaints department thread". Be admins and help the now MAJORITY of the community that doesn't like the game voice this to SE. Front page the negativity, that is directly the result of Square Enix's failings in this game. The people who don't like the game ARE apart of your community Pikko. We want a better game that we can actually enjoy playing with you and be positive about.


So you're suggesting that instead of maintaining these forums as a fan forums, the admins should allow the people who want to crap on the game to run rampant and drive away everyone who likes the game.

That makes absolutely no sense.

If that happens, if the rampant negativity and whining comes back in that way, I'll have to leave ZAM. I love the game and I've loved ZAM, been with this community starting awhile ago in XI. But I already have enough stress in my life, I don't need something I enjoy stressing me out. It'll stop being something I enjoy.
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#124 Nov 07 2010 at 7:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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So you're suggesting that instead of maintaining these forums as a fan forums, the admins should allow the people who want to crap on the game to run rampant and drive away everyone who likes the game.

As I've said many times, MANY of the people 'complaining' or counter-arguing with those that say the game is fine, also care about the game. As such their discussion belongs here as much as yours. They are also fans and if they crap on it because they expect better from SE, then again they have every right.

Those who I think you are confusing with the concerned complainers, are the asshat sh*t-stirrers. And I think you need to realize they're probably equally messing with the concerned complainers as they are with you.

Rather than look at this as "Pro-FFXIV vs Anti-FFXIV" it actually should be "Everyone VS the forum asshats"

There are 3 groups at work here, not 2.
The pointless asshats are the only ones that need to go.

Edited, Nov 7th 2010 8:13pm by RattyBatty
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#125 Nov 07 2010 at 7:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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Moxley wrote:
Pikko here is where I completely disagree with you.

Change does not come from acceptance. There should never have been a "complaints department thread". Be admins and help the now MAJORITY of the community that doesn't like the game voice this to SE. Front page the negativity, that is directly the result of Square Enix's failings in this game. The people who don't like the game ARE apart of your community Pikko. We want a better game that we can actually enjoy playing with you and be positive about.


See what I said earlier about how people kept making thread after thread after thread to say the same thing someone else did. Why not reply to someone else's post? Why do you need to have your own to agree with what someone else just said.

It's like you start yelling in the middle of a debate about the auction house to say, "Hey guys, listen, LISTEN! ... I think this game really needs an auction house." Think about that in a real life situation. I would be extremely annoyed and the first time I would have been like, "Um, what do you think we've been discussing this whole time?" When the 5th guy does it, I'm just going to be like, "Dude, just stop it." When the 10th guy does it I'm going to just tell him to STFU.

Believe me, from an admin standpoint, it was needed.
#126 Nov 07 2010 at 7:10 PM Rating: Decent
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RattyBatty wrote:
Quote:
So you're suggesting that instead of maintaining these forums as a fan forums, the admins should allow the people who want to crap on the game to run rampant and drive away everyone who likes the game.

As I've said many times, MANY of the people 'compaining' or counter-arguing with those that say the game is fine, also care about the game. As such their discussion belongs here as much as yours. They are also fans and if they crap on it because they expect better from SE, then again they have every right.

Those who I think you are confusing with the concerned complainers, are the asshat sh*t-stirrers. And I think you need to realize they're probably equally messing with the concerned complainers as they are with you.

Rather than look at this as "Pro-FFXIV vs Anti-FFXIV" it actually should be "Everyone VS the forum asshats"

There are 3 groups at work here, not 2.

Edited, Nov 7th 2010 8:08pm by RattyBatty


Corrections:

Those people who don't like the game and want to offer helpful suggestions, their posts do belong on ZAM, but not in General Discussion. Those threads belong in Feedback.

Those people who don't like the game and want to rain on everyone else's parade, their posts do not belong on ZAM.
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#127 Nov 07 2010 at 7:13 PM Rating: Good
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Sometimes I wish Pikko and the others would suddenly lose their cool and go on a banhammer rampage on all people who are starting to get out of line in their trolling and stupidity, temp bans for minor offenders and permabans for almaniques and varuswords, like how BG does.

I realize they can't, and I respect them for that, but oh how I long for the day. ;-;

Also, I haven't played FFXIV yet, but despite the negativity about it, I want to play it, if only for the beautiful scenery so far. I know the system seems to suck right now, but it should get better fairly soon. SE may be many things, but one thing they're good at is turning turds to gold given enough time and alchemy skill. Just look at FFXI when it started and what it is now!

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#128 Nov 07 2010 at 7:17 PM Rating: Decent
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To clarify I am not condoning the flaming of players. I understand it's difficult to see an opposing opinion to your own, but that is life! I want to enjoy FFXIV and be a part of this community but there are much needed changes that SE needs to make that is not going to come about when they see only rainbows and sunshine about their product on fansites.

If you guys want to shoooo away all the naysayers that is fine, but its going to get rather lonely sooner then later if the trends keep going the way they are. Have you guys even looked at how convoluted it is just to make a "complaint / suggestion" through SE's account management?
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#129 Nov 07 2010 at 7:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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Moxley, you're really trying my patience here. Smiley: frown This is not a thread about naysayers.
#130 Nov 07 2010 at 7:28 PM Rating: Decent
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Pikko, of course there are going to be 10 different threads about not having an auction house. This forum isn't just 100 people. Threads bring life to forums, telling someone to STFU because they are complaining about what someone else is complaining about is wrong. Each of those threads is what the individual posters make of it.

How many times have we seen how pretty the graphics are? (I agree they are pretty just as I agree there is a need for an auction house....)
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#131 Nov 07 2010 at 7:33 PM Rating: Good
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Moxley wrote:
Pikko, of course there are going to be 10 different threads about not having an auction house. This forum isn't just 100 people. Threads bring life to forums, telling someone to STFU because they are complaining about what someone else is complaining about is wrong. Each of those threads is what the individual posters make of it.

How many times have we seen how pretty the graphics are? (I agree they are pretty just as I agree there is a need for an auction house....)


What's the point of bringing life to the forums if nothing new is being said?

Now, if a AH thread hasn't been posted in for awhile, and posting in it would be considered necroposting, then I can see making a new thread. But when the front page is thread after thread of the same **** arguments it gets ridiculous.

Edited, Nov 7th 2010 7:35pm by Gadhelyn
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#132 Nov 07 2010 at 7:37 PM Rating: Decent
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Just don't read the threads? The Auction house is a hot button issue and SE is more likely to notice the discussion or lack there of and go from there on it.

I think closing down discussion on the negative of the game is just going to force people to speak with their wallets if they already haven't. SE is not going to fix a game no one is paying for.
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#133 Nov 07 2010 at 7:39 PM Rating: Good
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Moxley wrote:
Just don't read the threads? The Auction house is a hot button issue and SE is more likely to notice the discussion or lack there of and go from there on it.

I think closing down discussion on the negative of the game is just going to force people to speak with their wallets if they already haven't. SE is not going to fix a game no one is paying for.


And when the forums go back to how they were, the entire front page being thread after thread of the same moaning and groaning? I don't want to sift through 15 "Boo hoo, no AH!" threads to find the one interesting thread.
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#134 Nov 07 2010 at 7:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Am I missing something here? Cause SE said that one of the things planned for the late November update was an item search function for the markets, and even putting an icon next to people with that item in the wards, making it easy to locate said retainers in the markets. So maybe it involves a little more running around than normal than with an auction house, but it's essentially the same thing, only better because you can see what each person is offering and shop around for the lowest price.

So why complain about the lack of auction house when SE is planning to address the issue in their own way, much less make 10 threads about it on the front page when you're supposed to post in the complaint and rant thread and stop overflowing ZAM's servers with useless crap while annoying the community?

Seriously, flamers and trolls are ruining the ZAM community, not those with constructive criticism. Those can go in the complaint thread or feedback forum. And a ruined community means less revenue for ZAM, which means the admins have every right to kick the **** kids ruining their lawn off.
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#135 Nov 07 2010 at 8:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jesus Christ people Smiley: facepalm
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#136 Nov 07 2010 at 8:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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Whoa whoa WHOA.

When did we get a facepalm smiley!?!?!
#137 Nov 07 2010 at 8:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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Pikko wrote:
you sure are giving me a grade 1 migraine today.


Funnily enough the first thought in my head when I read that was "I wonder what you can mine from that"
#138 Nov 07 2010 at 8:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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Magnesium02 wrote:
Pikko wrote:
you sure are giving me a grade 1 migraine today.


Funnily enough the first thought in my head when I read that was "I wonder what you can mine from that"


Grade 1, probably insignificant ores, sand, and some shards depending on where you are and how you assigned your elemental resistances.
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#139 Nov 07 2010 at 8:56 PM Rating: Default
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Wint wrote:
Jesus Christ people Smiley: facepalm

kinda perfect avatar for saying that.

Plus not to be off topic but it was a false rumor that someone spread that Wards replaced the AH. Wards were put in instead of having players afk in towns like it was on ffxi.

anyway. Stop derailing the thread, taunting the admins and flat out acting like a high school bully. (not you wint everyone fighting with the admints)
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#140 Nov 07 2010 at 9:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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Magnesium02 wrote:
Pikko wrote:
you sure are giving me a grade 1 migraine today.


Funnily enough the first thought in my head when I read that was "I wonder what you can mine from that"


I had meant it was a really bad migraine, but I guess with you around I should have called it a grade 4 migraine. lol
#141 Nov 07 2010 at 9:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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Pikko wrote:
Whoa whoa WHOA.

When did we get a facepalm smiley!?!?!


I can't remember for sure but I was wondering why you hadn't used it yet Smiley: tongue
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#142 Nov 07 2010 at 9:51 PM Rating: Decent
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Pikko wrote:
Magnesium02 wrote:
Pikko wrote:
you sure are giving me a grade 1 migraine today.


Funnily enough the first thought in my head when I read that was "I wonder what you can mine from that"


I had meant it was a really bad migraine, but I guess with you around I should have called it a grade 4 migraine. lol

you still play ffxi on lakshmi?
I'm on that server Also 7 year vet back from garuda just restarted to play as an elvaan was mithran.
good luck :3
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#143 Nov 08 2010 at 4:31 AM Rating: Good
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Pikko wrote:
I just had to go nuke a bunch of posts in the "Say something nice thread" because some troll went and spewed venom in it. And people rated that guy up. It's sad, really, when people are so mad at the game that they rate someone up for spitting venomous bile at people and also rate people down for posting something nice. This is the sad state of our general forum.


No offense but the karma system has been this way for years so why do the admins only seem to have a problem with it now?
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I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#144 Nov 08 2010 at 5:53 AM Rating: Good
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Pikko wrote:
Moxley wrote:
Pikko here is where I completely disagree with you.

Change does not come from acceptance. There should never have been a "complaints department thread". Be admins and help the now MAJORITY of the community that doesn't like the game voice this to SE. Front page the negativity, that is directly the result of Square Enix's failings in this game. The people who don't like the game ARE apart of your community Pikko. We want a better game that we can actually enjoy playing with you and be positive about.


See what I said earlier about how people kept making thread after thread after thread to say the same thing someone else did. Why not reply to someone else's post? Why do you need to have your own to agree with what someone else just said.

It's like you start yelling in the middle of a debate about the auction house to say, "Hey guys, listen, LISTEN! ... I think this game really needs an auction house." Think about that in a real life situation. I would be extremely annoyed and the first time I would have been like, "Um, what do you think we've been discussing this whole time?" When the 5th guy does it, I'm just going to be like, "Dude, just stop it." When the 10th guy does it I'm going to just tell him to STFU.

Believe me, from an admin standpoint, it was needed.


If this was Real life they would of been booted out of the hall for constantly raising the same thing up over and over again and it seriously gets old. Problem is people are creating new threads because they want the attention to their post. If they post in the "Complaints" thread lets face it, how many people are actually viewing the posts?
SE will probably pay more attention to the complaints thread then all the new posts because after they read about 3 they will realise they are all the same. SE have said they are working on the problems, they gave us a list and you would see the list if it wasnt for all the ranting threads. I work in IT so I know if something is wrong we are working on it and everyone screaming at us about it will not change ANYTHING. But some people just want the attention and some one to listen to their Rants. And the worst part is the ranters just will not listen to reason, this is XIV community to talk about the game yes. BUT you do not see 20 threads about "What do the stats do", or during Maintenance 20 threads saying "Maintenance in progress".

Any poster should know when creating new threads "is there a thread currently there which is what your about to post about".
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#145 Nov 08 2010 at 6:21 AM Rating: Decent
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Pikko wrote:
The problem with that is everyone seems to think they have the right to make their OWN thread because their thoughts on how crappy the game is are in no way like anyone else's. That's what led to the complaints thread in the first place. This place was being overrun with new threads that could have been accomplished with someone replying to another thread with quotes and a "This."


This.
#146 Nov 08 2010 at 10:02 AM Rating: Good
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I know I'm a little late to the party, but ...

Regarding the karma system, Pikko wrote:
The day it's gone will be a day I go running up and down my street screaming in joy


This had better be on Youtube. :)
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#147 Nov 08 2010 at 11:04 AM Rating: Good
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Galkaholics wrote:

one time i had a brick thrown thru my window but other then that no ones ever showed up to back up their words...


!!! :O Why did the person who did that, do that? I'd freak out if someone invested so much hate in me to actually come throw a brick through my window o_O That's some serious anger management issues imo.

But yes, I see your point. Apparently internet makes our other personalities show more than we are willing to give them space off the screen.
#148 Nov 08 2010 at 11:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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preludes wrote:
Quote:
For people that have quit, plan to quit, or just flat out stay here because they're bitter about the game, this is your notice that you are not to outright flame existing players just because they play the game. I am sick and tired of our community members being berated for liking something others don't.

If this happens to you without provocation, please use the report function and the offending post may be nuked if deemed to be harmful to our community. I would like to clarify that negative opinions *on the game itself* are still permitted, but ad hominem attacks of other ZAM members simply for playing/liking/enjoying an aspect of the game is no longer acceptable.


Flaming is ok as long as you don't flame people who like the game I like, whut?

Also is this flaming or rating down, if this is rating down LOL if you hate the system this forum lives on(that the people that run this site have defended for years when it has ALWAYS been misused) then simply freeze the rating system on this board, if it's so far into "leave britney alone territory" misuse the power you have to protect the game you personally like. I've posted on the FFXI boards for a long time now and I've never seen this level of admin protection, but then the players of that game never hated it as the populace of this one does(even if the admins or a small % of posters like it).

Alla turns into FFXICore in 5, 4, 3... I was under the impression being paid to be an admin meant you had to leave your own agenda at the door? Guess it means as much as people that do it for free and abuse the crap out of their position to skew the users of their forum into what they want instead.


I really disagree here!

The admins on this site have been awesome. In most cases people are free to speak their mind and opinions.
They have been supportive in setting up a venue to discuss the issues with the game. Its just people don't use the right places to do that.

They really like the game and want to have their opinion voiced and they have that right.

Politely asking someone or a group of people not to flame others, there is nothing wrong with that considering. They
have an open forum to allow players and fans to voice their opinions.


#149 Nov 08 2010 at 1:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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Er, Lobi, I've hated the karma system since I started working here over six years ago. It got worse, IMO, when Rimesume led to the numbers being taken away, cause then people were flipping out over what was basically imaginary karma camping.
#150 Nov 08 2010 at 3:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Well, "I" wouldn't rate a thread down "just for the **** of it" but it's pretty hypocritical for an admin, who CANT be ratted down (no option) to post this. If it came from another true member of this community, with ALL strings attached, it would be different.
Manual *rate down*
(what? are you guy scared to find what the community REALLY thinks about you? at least don't default yourselves to "excellent" because trust me, you're not)
#151 Nov 08 2010 at 3:53 PM Rating: Good
sideways wrote:
Well, "I" wouldn't rate a thread down "just for the **** of it" but it's pretty hypocritical for an admin, who CANT be ratted down (no option) to post this. If it came from another true member of this community, with ALL strings attached, it would be different.
Manual *rate down*
(what? are you guy scared to find what the community REALLY thinks about you? at least don't default yourselves to "excellent" because trust me, you're not)


For people that have quit, plan to quit, or just flat out stay here because they're bitter about the game, this is your notice that you are not to outright flame existing players just because they play the game. I am sick and tired of our community members being berated for liking something others don't.

If this happens to you without provocation, please use the report function and the offending post may be nuked if deemed to be harmful to our community. I would like to clarify that negative opinions *on the game itself* are still permitted, but ad hominem attacks of other ZAM members simply for playing/liking/enjoying an aspect of the game is no longer acceptable.

I'm pointing to you guys that have been rating down the Weekend Accomplishment threads. Cut it out.

Edit: This applies to everyone in general. Be nice, be civil, or get out. Report anyone needing nuking or nudging out the door.


Is that better?
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