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The Whining Must Stop. (Revised)Follow

#102 Nov 09 2010 at 7:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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Taemek wrote:


When I say UI mods, I mean UI mods like what they did with WoW. Way over board.......that sort of thing should not be allowed to happen to any game when people recruit you to group providing you have ex-type of UI mod etc etc.

I personally hate UI mods, I mean its swell that people are skilled enough to make them and its nice of them to spend thier time doing it, but at the same time, I feel it takes away from the atmosphere of the game, pollutes it and makes it stagnate.

UI skins on the other hand, np. UI skins do not take away your ability to play your class by replacing it with a sense of artifical intelligence where the program does the thnking for you.



I think you need to limit your statement really. Raid encounter trivializing UI mods (dbm for ex) i can see people having a problem with.

The rest, well the rest add a quality of life to the game. Take wardrobe - an addon which let you switch armor sets easily. The developers didn't have it built in, a player saw the need and made it. Eventually it was incorporated into the game. This has happened for a bunch of features and continues to happen.

That is the benefit to addons - it allows customization of the game and allows the developers to see what features the players would like and eventually incorporate them as part of the standard ui. Quality of life with features that the developers didn't include.
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#103 Nov 09 2010 at 9:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
When I say UI mods, I mean UI mods like what they did with WoW. Way over board.......that sort of thing should not be allowed to happen to any game when people recruit you to group providing you have ex-type of UI mod etc etc.

I personally hate UI mods, I mean its swell that people are skilled enough to make them and its nice of them to spend thier time doing it, but at the same time, I feel it takes away from the atmosphere of the game, pollutes it and makes it stagnate.


I like having the choice to use modifications. Just about every PC player I know uses Windower for XI, and I used a lot of player-made UI mods for WoW as well. The great thing about it is, if you don't want to use it, you don't have to. If you find that it makes the game stagnate, then just play with the standard, plain ol interface and find other people who feel the same. It's a personal choice, and everyone wants to make their own personal choices. Just like you were upset at being left out of that group because you didn't use a certain mod, I am upset at you suggesting that I shouldn't be able to us ANY mods just because of your bad experience.

Players find all sorts of reasons to keep others out of groups - it's not just limited to using tools that make life easier. Your level of equipment, your attitude, your general knowledge - all these things are also reasons to kick you from a group and none of them have anything to do with add ons. Players want to succeed at tasks, and if you aren't up to snuff, you will be left behind. *shrugs* that's just the way of the world.
#104 Nov 09 2010 at 9:47 AM Rating: Good
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since SE is such an epic company, with kazilion games out there.
why couldnt they have fixed these issues BEFORE game went live?
thats the problem.
it should have still been beta.

also since ppl are PAYING to play, why shouldt they complain if they are dissatisfied with the service?
and how would SE fix anything if no one complains? if no one complains = there's nothing wrong. if nothing is wrong, there's nothing to fix.
and FFXIV has alot to fix, so its good ppl are complaining.
And since ppl are still complaining after half a year, it seems SE is doing something wrong.
if it was just minor issues, the QQers would have been bashed down by the majority of the playerbase itself.
But since the whining is legitimate, it wont stop until it's fixed.
So there's no need to ask for ppl to stop whining, cause you cant make them :)

Some issues can be looked past as acceptable, no game is perfect, and most companies are constantly striving to fix and improve.
Some issues are to big to be looked past, and must be fixed ASAP, or community gonna rage.

I might consider coming to FFXIV the day i dont see any QQ :p
But i come looking today, after a month or so, and i see on top of list, SE sales drop by 75% cause of FFXIV or something like that lol, now thats what i call a good first impression.
Seeing those figures, how would ANYONE think that FFXIV just has some minor flaws, that will be worked out soon?
To state again: They should have fixed the flaws in BETA BEFORE GOING LIVE! then there wouldnt have been this ****-storm.
It was ok to tell the QQers in beta, that its just beta, these things will be fixed. but now its not beta. now you must pay to play, its no longer ok to say, its just 1st month, or 2nd month of live! they will fix it soon!!
like when soon? Q1 2011? Q2? the longer they take the less likely it is ppl will give it a try, or 2nd chance.
1st impression lasts. 15min of fame etc :)
#105 Nov 10 2010 at 6:36 AM Rating: Default
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KacesofCaitsith wrote:
Taemek wrote:


When I say UI mods, I mean UI mods like what they did with WoW. Way over board.......that sort of thing should not be allowed to happen to any game when people recruit you to group providing you have ex-type of UI mod etc etc.

I personally hate UI mods, I mean its swell that people are skilled enough to make them and its nice of them to spend thier time doing it, but at the same time, I feel it takes away from the atmosphere of the game, pollutes it and makes it stagnate.

UI skins on the other hand, np. UI skins do not take away your ability to play your class by replacing it with a sense of artifical intelligence where the program does the thnking for you.



I think you need to limit your statement really. Raid encounter trivializing UI mods (dbm for ex) i can see people having a problem with.

The rest, well the rest add a quality of life to the game. Take wardrobe - an addon which let you switch armor sets easily. The developers didn't have it built in, a player saw the need and made it. Eventually it was incorporated into the game. This has happened for a bunch of features and continues to happen.

That is the benefit to addons - it allows customization of the game and allows the developers to see what features the players would like and eventually incorporate them as part of the standard ui. Quality of life with features that the developers didn't include.


Torrence wrote:
Quote:
When I say UI mods, I mean UI mods like what they did with WoW. Way over board.......that sort of thing should not be allowed to happen to any game when people recruit you to group providing you have ex-type of UI mod etc etc.

I personally hate UI mods, I mean its swell that people are skilled enough to make them and its nice of them to spend thier time doing it, but at the same time, I feel it takes away from the atmosphere of the game, pollutes it and makes it stagnate.


I like having the choice to use modifications. Just about every PC player I know uses Windower for XI, and I used a lot of player-made UI mods for WoW as well. The great thing about it is, if you don't want to use it, you don't have to. If you find that it makes the game stagnate, then just play with the standard, plain ol interface and find other people who feel the same. It's a personal choice, and everyone wants to make their own personal choices. Just like you were upset at being left out of that group because you didn't use a certain mod, I am upset at you suggesting that I shouldn't be able to us ANY mods just because of your bad experience.

Players find all sorts of reasons to keep others out of groups - it's not just limited to using tools that make life easier. Your level of equipment, your attitude, your general knowledge - all these things are also reasons to kick you from a group and none of them have anything to do with add ons. Players want to succeed at tasks, and if you aren't up to snuff, you will be left behind. *shrugs* that's just the way of the world.



Let me say this, again, UI skins, np. UI skins do not take away your ability to play your class by replacing it with a sense of artifical intelligence where the program does the thnking for you.

I have no problem with UI skins, UI's that help you play your class by removing the attention span and skill required to play it is what I hate.

The jist of my point is, people are lazy, they want UI mods to do the work for them while just pointing thier character in the right direction instead of playing the game for what it is.

Some WoW mods are boarder line 3rd party programs that do things for you, hence AI doing your job.

Using your example of how well that UI mod became known and used and was eventually implemented in the game as a feature, don't you think its a smack in the face to the person who spent all the time keeping it updated through patches, tweaking it and getting it right for multiple types of players where the devs reaped from his work?

Realitcially, if the community got together and suggested that a UI feature be implemented, with enough voices they will implement anything. The way I see it these days, to save on UI progression so the Dev team itself doesn't have to be involved in it, they rely on the players themselves to do the work for them then they take those ideas without paying them a cent for the time they spent building, maintaining and upgrading said feature and implement in thier own games....
#106 Nov 10 2010 at 6:39 AM Rating: Default
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Toukai wrote:
3 posts worh of jibberish


Seriously Toukai, its ok to disagree with me, but you seriously need to work on your reading comprehension skills, just about every point you have touched on is grousely out of context. I tried to pull it back on track with my last reply to you, but you still clearly only see your point. Now, it's so far of track I don't even know how to pull it back on track or where to begin that I just gave up.

Feel free to abuse the forum rating tool some more and sub-default me again because I simply don't agree with you.....

Edited, Nov 10th 2010 7:40am by Taemek
#107 Nov 10 2010 at 9:27 AM Rating: Decent
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I agree with most of the OPs points, this looks like it could grow into a fantastic game once the current gratuitous annoyances are addressed. I love lots of little things about the game - such as the not in your face level notifcation next to names; The fight mechanics, where although you don't use many abilities solo (I'm a CON) you can see how the ones you do posess can be useful; That you have to choose a subset of your abilities to equip; The complexity of crafting (EQ2 only other MMO that gets close, and it is pretty close); The combat mechanics with TP abilities and stamina bar so you can't just spam like crazy; That mobs do things at random so you can't just figure them out and do the same thing every time. All very nice.

However - OP mentioned that this is the single best looking MMO to date, hands down. Having toyed with nearly all the MMOs I have to disagree here. If I were handing out awards I think I'd say:

Best character creation: EQ2 by a margin. Almost Infinitely customisible and lots of different bases from which to start. There's even a race of pixie type things where you can choose patterns and colours and shape of the wings, length and style of antennae, etc.. You could spend a day creating your character, and I have done! XIV is very restricted here. AoC, Aion and even VG were much better at launch.

Best scenery and general graphics: Aion, I think, although it's a close call. AoC with DX10 looks fantastic if you have a monster enough machine. Oh and I have to mention the AoC Fatality animations. If you've not seen these I recommend you buy the game and use the free trial to see those alone. Aion had cute little touches like if your character was standing aroun and it started to rain it would automatically pull out a lilly umbrella thing.

Best looking armour and skins: Aion. Original and gorgeous, beautifully done. Especially the caster robes. And you can transfer stats from worse looking pieces to better looking pieces - very cool indeed.

However XIV takes it for best character animation - just, and Aion comes a very close second. The accuracy and fluidity of movement in XIV are a joy to behold. Other MMOs sometimes look a little unnatural.

I do think SE really missed a trick with the technology for the landscapes. As far as I'm aware this is the only MMO where you can't walk off cliffs (and die) or drops or go swimming. Being restricted to paths is exceptionally annoying when one is used to more freedom - and the new cutting edge MMOs have flight too, which is a fantastic experience. The ex wow crowd will be smarting at the lack of a jump button. I get the feeling that they decided to use their existing technology because it was cheap than go for a new beautiful engine. that said, there can be lag issues with the most graphically gorgeous games.

The menu system is a *right proper* pain in the backside, especially when you add a touch of lag for each menu. Taking 20mins to clear out the trash from your bags, involving 3 screens, is totally unnecessary and by a long chalk the worst of all MMOs I've seen. Macros are great but my left hand gets really uncomfortable after a time of pressing ctrl+2. WoW, with its customizable interface and efficient screens is hands down the winner for usability (but wasn't in early game when addons were not around).

Personally I'm having a lot of trouble with money. I'm R17 CON with some R12 gear and a R21 chest. The rate at which gear degrades, and how much it costs to repair, is shocking. I got gear damage after just 20 minutes of using my new (weathered) fishing rod!!! I got given 4 brass rings by a LS buddy last week. Cost me 10K in mats to repair just them, and I had to do that 3 times R14-16. Leves just don't cover it, not even the 20+ ones, and I also seem to get gear damage when crafting and fishing. If I do all my 20+ leves and help someone with theirs I get enough to cover maybe one repair bill, and I get about 2-3 on average per rank. 5K to repair the circlet I got as a leve reward. 13k to repair my R12 wand. It's too much. I'm currently running at a net loss of 60K at R16 (Yes I had to pay a visit to the Chinese or just go broke, and 98% of my outgoings are repair bills). Time is precious to me - if I have to spend the majority of my time gathering and crafting to make some money to just cover my repair bills for *some* R12 gear I'll end up adventuring every other week, and I'll get bored. I hate having to go to RMT. But I don't want to whine about this. I don't see thread upon thread on this topic so I'm probably missing something.

More mobs required. It's not fun to spend most of your time running around trying to find something half decent to kill. WoW addressed this very well I thought in bc and wotlk by dramatically reducing the repop timer for a time after launch to cope with increased competition. Whole swathes of LN are just plain empty!

But these are all things that can be easily addressed and I hope they appear on SE's priority list. Seriously in every single MMO I've seen every patch seems to cover exactly what the community didn't prioritise highest if at all! I'd love to be a fly on the wall at one of those meetings. Probably run by coders who sneer at fluffy community reps, would be my guess. It's usually when coders get hold of priority lists that you end up with all sorts of useless random sh** that co-incidentally happens to expand their CVs in a particular way.

My top fix - bring back xp loss for death and reduce repair bills.
#108 Nov 10 2010 at 9:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Using your example of how well that UI mod became known and used and was eventually implemented in the game as a feature, don't you think its a smack in the face to the person who spent all the time keeping it updated through patches, tweaking it and getting it right for multiple types of players where the devs reaped from his work?


I don't see where FFXI implemented the features of Windower into the game (aside from eventually windowing it), so perhaps you mixed up my quote with someone else's?

In any event, these folks develop mods for themselves, and only a few actually seek a profit doing so. You can go to Curse.com and download any player mod for free - so you really think these folks mind that it was considered good enough to be implemented into the game? If they are really that worried about copywriting their work, then perhaps they should develop their own game and not add ons using toolkits provided by the developers of another.

Quote:
Realitcially, if the community got together and suggested that a UI feature be implemented, with enough voices they will implement anything.


With SE talking doesn't work. There was an interview near the start of XIV beta in which the interviewers asked if their names could be used in the game as boss monsters, and the dev said sure maybe we will get around to it in 5 years.

It was a joke, but it rang true for those of us who have watched XI for the past 7 years go update after update without anything we asked for, and instead get a new /bell emote. So, in short, it really doesn't matter how loud we scream when the developers just aren't listening.
#109 Nov 10 2010 at 11:08 AM Rating: Excellent
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Torrence wrote:

With SE talking doesn't work. There was an interview near the start of XIV beta in which the interviewers asked if their names could be used in the game as boss monsters, and the dev said sure maybe we will get around to it in 5 years.

It was a joke, but it rang true for those of us who have watched XI for the past 7 years go update after update without anything we asked for, and instead get a new /bell emote. So, in short, it really doesn't matter how loud we scream when the developers just aren't listening.


^^This is the short answer why most people aren't giving SE benefit of the doubt. It essentially boils downs to our experiences over the years. Anyone who currently supports SE considering their previous track record apparently hasn't learned their lesson. This is the same company that nerfed popular classes because they were too good and boosted lesser classes to demi-God years later. We ask for job/game adjustments for years and like the previous poster said, we got the bell command nobody wanted. I could go on for a hour describing all the missed opportunities by SE. I'll illustrate my point that SE only responded to their user bases on very rare occasions. The FFXI "enfeeble nerf" patch is one of those times. Granted it took like weeks of complaining for them to reverse it, but that's SE for you.

In recent years, SE has has made some progress in adapting to the players needs. FFXI is quite casual now compared to years ago. Some Windower inspired mods have made their into the FFXI engine. The Utsusemi counter, "distance" plug in, and chat spammer all were based off those mods. So I think when many players decided to give SE another chance with FFXIV, they kinda expected that SE learned their lesson. Throughout the Beta phase we complained about these failures as SE brushed them off by implying a new patch was going to fix everything. They even told us that the game engine itself was a placeholder mock-up and that the final engine mod would be better. The bottom line is SE lied to us. They sold us a pipe dream where FFXIV was the next generation of all things SE and it's not even close to being playable, especially for long periods of time. The fanboys are quick to point that the game is new and that these problems are expected. I think there is a huge difference between glitches and incomplete play mechanics. FFXIV was supposed to be more casual than FFXI yet it requires you to open like 10 menus to craft among other basic things in a MMO. There is a reason why the game is free to play, that reason is because the game is still in Beta phase.
#110 Nov 10 2010 at 11:53 AM Rating: Default
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I started to notice that some complains its that the game should change to their own needs. It's not even about the flaws we already know it has, it's about "I want this part of the game to be changed just for me", tweaking the game for specific needs out of personal tastes. It start to feels like if every time you don't like something in the game, you yell that it's broken or sucks and want it "fix".

Example, this guy that just made a thread about he being "forced" to use only 4 accesories instead of 6 cause of the slot system, and it should be fixed. Seriously, this is going out of proportion from what the game needs to be fixed, to a "make your own mmorpg, for every single player demands."
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#111 Nov 10 2010 at 12:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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Taemek wrote:
Toukai wrote:
3 posts worh of jibberish


Seriously Toukai, its ok to disagree with me, but you seriously need to work on your reading comprehension skills, just about every point you have touched on is grousely out of context. I tried to pull it back on track with my last reply to you, but you still clearly only see your point. Now, it's so far of track I don't even know how to pull it back on track or where to begin that I just gave up.

Feel free to abuse the forum rating tool some more and sub-default me again because I simply don't agree with you.....

Edited, Nov 10th 2010 7:40am by Taemek

I fail to see how anything has been out of context...and again I haven't been Karma bombing you, don't believe me ask a forum mod =P
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#112 Nov 10 2010 at 12:17 PM Rating: Default
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RdeLeo wrote:
I started to notice that some complains its that the game should change to their own needs. It's not even about the flaws we already know it has, it's about "I want this part of the game to be changed just for me", tweaking the game for specific needs out of personal tastes. It start to feels like if every time you don't like something in the game, you yell that it's broken or sucks and want it "fix".

Example, this guy that just made a thread about he being "forced" to use only 4 accesories instead of 6 cause of the slot system, and it should be fixed. Seriously, this is going out of proportion from what the game needs to be fixed, to a "make your own mmorpg, for every single player demands."


Agree 100%. Also, people seem to be a tad **** hurt over FFXI and are biased about thier opinions here with their dooms day theories that SE is out to get them.

They climbin in your windows, they snatchin your peoples up.....
#113 Nov 10 2010 at 12:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Example, this guy that just made a thread about he being "forced" to use only 4 accesories instead of 6 cause of the slot system, and it should be fixed. Seriously, this is going out of proportion from what the game needs to be fixed, to a "make your own mmorpg, for every single player demands."


That is far from being a "single player demand". That is a serious issue for goldsmtihs since the slot system makes many of our recipes worthless. At higher levels it only takes a few rings to use up all your slots, so goldsmiths have little incentive to make anything else besides the basic brass/silver rings.

There is nothing "strategic" about the slot system because there are not enough accessories in the game to micro-manage. In it's current form the system is nothing but a hindrance to everyone.
#114 Nov 10 2010 at 12:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:

Example, this guy that just made a thread about he being "forced" to use only 4 accesories instead of 6 cause of the slot system, and it should be fixed. Seriously, this is going out of proportion from what the game needs to be fixed, to a "make your own mmorpg, for every single player demands."


Actually, his complaint was that equipment that should by all accounts be an upgrade actually ends up a downgrade when equipped. At least, that's what I got out of it - the progression is skewed and the limitations on slots make it more difficult to improve your character in a way that follows some sort of path or common "materials" ruleset.


Quote:
Agree 100%. Also, people seem to be a tad **** hurt over FFXI and are biased about thier opinions here with their dooms day theories that SE is out to get them.

They climbin in your windows, they snatchin your peoples up.....


Honestly, the majority of people here are having intelligent discussions and are drawing on their experiences with another game made by the same company with the same brand name (Final Fantasy). If drawing parallels between their behavior now and their behavior then is "butthurt bias" then I suppose I will just stay out of this thread as well.

However, it's getting a little ridiculous with the comments that add nothing to the discussion such as the above.

#115 Nov 10 2010 at 12:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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Taemek wrote:


Let me say this, again, UI skins, np. UI skins do not take away your ability to play your class by replacing it with a sense of artifical intelligence where the program does the thnking for you.


Wardrobe, power auras, atlas, rating buster, etc... these are not UI skins. That is why i said you need to adjust your statement.

The amount of addons which actually play your class is... well 0 as blizzard puts the ban hammer on those (old school decursive for example). The closest thing, as i said before, is the raid encounter mods. Which i can see, but again they do not play your class. They simply run timers and announce events.

Quote:
The jist of my point is, people are lazy, they want UI mods to do the work for them while just pointing thier character in the right direction instead of playing the game for what it is.


I gotta say it, because it was my biggest grief with ff12 and to a lesser extent ff13...

You mean like how you can set up macros in ff12 and literally just run your character across the map and have it play itself? (ff13 was similar in that you only had direct control of one pc at a time =/)

Irrelevant i know, just a grief i had with the game.

Quote:
Using your example of how well that UI mod became known and used and was eventually implemented in the game as a feature, don't you think its a smack in the face to the person who spent all the time keeping it updated through patches, tweaking it and getting it right for multiple types of players where the devs reaped from his work?


I'm no dev, but i have yet to see a single person cry foul at having their work, which they do for free, implemented into the game. I suppose you would have to ask them.

Me personally, i would be happy. it shows that my work was worthwhile and useful. it also frees up my time as the feature that i wanted included in the game is no in the game, without any further updates / work from myself.

Quote:

Realitcially, if the community got together and suggested that a UI feature be implemented, with enough voices they will implement anything. The way I see it these days, to save on UI progression so the Dev team itself doesn't have to be involved in it, they rely on the players themselves to do the work for them then they take those ideas without paying them a cent for the time they spent building, maintaining and upgrading said feature and implement in thier own games....


ffxi windower.
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#116 Nov 10 2010 at 12:33 PM Rating: Default
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Well, I'm sorry if I tried to put an opinion here, about the original message, instead of following the last thread replies to anyone. And what I did, was just took a post as an example, on how for me, in my opinion, this now is turning into an "add this, fix that, put this for me, change those" sea of demands.

But seems now everyone is taking everything too personal and as a direct attack, even if you are not replying to them.
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#117Taemek, Posted: Nov 10 2010 at 12:34 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) SE = Publisher. Not developing team.
#118 Nov 10 2010 at 12:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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Taemek wrote:

SE = Publisher. Not developing team.

The publisher gives the developing team the money to develop said title. They demand results or heads will roll.

Seeing as it takes on avergae, 4 years to produce and develop an MMO, I seriously doubt it is the exact same developing team from 12 years ago that made FFXI......

Again, seriously, SE is not climbin in your windows, snatchin you peoples up....


Actually, the same development team that did FFXI moved onto this one exclusively, and FFXI was given a new director with a new team. Look, I can see that you are really excited about FFXIV and I get that, but you can't replace facts with fiction to support your thoughts especially when you are on a forum full of people who have played SE FF titles for the better half of the last decade.

FFXIV was developed alongside FFXI with the teams splitting their time between the two - and that's straight from the horse's mouth.

Edit: Here's a link to the Wiki page in case you were interested. Scroll down to the Development section and then read through the sources cited for more information.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy_XIV


Edited, Nov 10th 2010 1:51pm by Torrence
#119 Nov 10 2010 at 1:07 PM Rating: Default
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Good post Bump.
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#120 Nov 10 2010 at 3:17 PM Rating: Default
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I keep reading more and more, and one thing just came to my mind: What the game lack at this moment (according to most of the posters)... those things, wasn't those what everyone was saying they didn't like in other games and in FFXI?

AH, need to run to a mog to change jobs, subjob restrictions, level restrictions, tons of sets of armors for each job, jumping, space, bazaars, rmts, the list can go on and on. All those things before the game was even released in beta, wasn't people saying it was bad and didn't want it, or that was tedious?

So what if when the game was being developed, they took all those comments, and planned on ways to make the things different and put some things new in the game. And now that the game is out and it doesn't have it, everyone is claiming they want those things cause the game doesn't have it.

So now, this game tried other ways to don't have all those things people were annoyed with, and now, they want them back? I can be wrong on this, but what do you think?

Edited, Nov 10th 2010 4:24pm by RdeLeo
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#121 Nov 10 2010 at 3:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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AH, level restrictions, tons of sets of armors for each job, jumping, space, bazaars, rmts, the list can go on and on. All those things before the game was even released in beta, wasn't people saying it was bad and didn't want it, or that was tedious?"

I think you're completely wrong:

AH who didn't want an AH and why? There's nothing wrong with the AH system, it works. If it didn't, most other games would get rid of theirs.

sets of armour WTF are you smoking? Everyone loves customizing their appearance.

jumping Yeah it can be annoying watching a small percentage of the population jump around over and over again. But, seriously, you think people actually asked for this to not be in the game? I for one would welcome it. It might help me avoid those fences, rocks on the road, 6 inch cliffs I have to run around.

space If you are saying people said "we have to may slots in our bags, please give us limited inventory space", I have to ask WTF are you smoking?

#122 Nov 10 2010 at 3:34 PM Rating: Decent
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I don't think people minds the wait if there was constant communication. So SE did a Q&A and explained that they know what the problems are and said there will be a patch in late Nov. and late Dec. Fine, that's awesome, but they only addressed the obvious issues. They did not address the more serious problems like the time sink, the party system, type of content that will be added, and UI delays. They said they were going to add in the sort function and make it easier for players to organize, but no where did they admit that there is a problem with the UI delay. There is at least a 2 second or more wait time when clicking options. Also, after that Q&A, all communications were stopped and the wait seems longer. Everyone I've spoken to doesn't even realize that it's been only almost 2 months since pre-release. It feels like half a year though because everything about the game is just so slow and repetitive. If SE actually communicated with the community and answered questions properly, nobody would be whining. With such a horrible game, SE should be extremely afraid if the community wasn't whining. That just means that everyone gave up and quit so there's no longer a need to whine/complain.
#123RdeLeo, Posted: Nov 10 2010 at 3:42 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) First of all, I don't smoke. Second:
#124 Nov 10 2010 at 3:56 PM Rating: Decent
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Armor- The current system is fine, but the penalties must be more noticeable/larger. Right now, I don't really notice the penalty for wearing higher rank equipment except durability loss. Considering that I don't notice the difference between wearing broken armor to 100% durability armor, the system is not working as intended. They also need to make equipment/weapon have it's own tab like crystals/shards.

Auction House- Bot sniping is the main reason why AH fails. The market ward would be fine if they did not allow players to place their retainers wherever they want. There should not be multiple wards. It should be one gigantic ward where the retainers are automatically placed in an open area. This would fix the clutter problem and reduce the amount of lag since they could make it so not too many retainers are close together. This would only work if they implement the search function like an auction house. They said that an arrow would appear on the retainer if it contained the item the user searched for. With a larger ward, they would have to make the arrow appear on the radar also to point the user to the retainer. This would basically make it like an auction house, but prevent bot sniping. For those who don't know what sniping is, it's basically something that allows you to set a price to buy and sell on specific items like the stock market. It's what made FFXI's AH affect the economy so greatly.

Inventory Space- The way this game is setup, you're almost forced to level sideways if you are the type that wants to do everything yourself. For example, many crafts in this game requires different materials created by different crafting classes. The amount of inventory space given and the space from the retainer is just not enough. I still have no idea why they didn't make arrows stack to 999. (9999 would be overkill)
#125 Nov 10 2010 at 4:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
-Armor sets, not talking about costumization, talking about space in inventory. I remember lots of people complaining about having to have with them about 3-4 sets of armor, just for a single job, and more sets for a quick change in job. Now you can change w/o changing clothes or having tons of armor in the inventory.

-AH, not talking about the system, about that only being able to put 7 items on it. or have to leave your character selling all night with the game on (which you can now do it with retainer, without the need to be online) You can use now 10 on you, 10 on retainer.

-Inventory space, you start with 80 slots on you, 80 on retainer. It is more that what you have when you start the game in FFXI without spending gil in gobbie bags, furniture and quests. Most probably later on you will be able to add more space, like the mog bags or other storing facilities.



1. Inventory space was the issue - not the variety of equipment. No one complained there was too much different equipment (in fact, some people have made entire programs to automate gear-swaps because folks got so obsessed with min-maxing), everyone complained there weren't enough places to store it. The two are linked, but not the same thing. And incidentally, the storage issue hasn't been addressed yet in FFXIV anyway.

2. People complained about 7 slots yes. 7 slots is still absurd and crippling. However, limiting the entire system in the new game to only bazaars isn't what people asked for - they asked for more AH slots. This isn't SE giving us what we were looking for in a different way, it's SE only looking at one side of the picture and ignoring the other side for reasons unknown. Bazaars in FFXI required you to have your character online, yes, but your selling slots were limited only by your inventory. In this respect, our bazaars are actually nerfed in XIV.

3. Yes it's an improvement over the previous game, but this game also automatically eats up most of that storage by requiring weapons and tools for gear swapping. It's a nice idea in theory to be able to carry tools and swap in the field, but holy crow couldn't they have found some other way to let us change jobs on the fly? I mean, having to carry around all these tools and weapons and store them negates any benefit we might have seen from the increase in storage space over the last game. To add insult to injury, every class gets its own weapon or tool now, so we can't "share" pieces of equipment between jobs and we ALWAYS have to have that weapon available to change to that class.

I know your reply: Well why would you change to a class without a weapon anyway? My response: a retired whm can sometimes come out of retirement to PL or something else that doesn't necessarily require me to actually wield a hammer.

Wow - that sounds a little rantish. I think I need a break from the forums.

Edited, Nov 10th 2010 5:11pm by Torrence
#126Sir mokatu, Posted: Nov 10 2010 at 5:58 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I couldn't agree more, but you can't stop the haters, the whiners, etc.
#127 Nov 10 2010 at 6:01 PM Rating: Default
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Sir mokatu wrote:

These forums reminds me of a high school cafeteria as if FFXIV was the new kid everybody picks on. It doesn't matter who tries to defend it, it only makes things worse for you, and FFXIV. This is the only game where people who like to play are being made fun of.


Does this once again make me the odd band geek who likes the new kid and gets along with most people except the most popular? Spends lunchtime sitting with other odd band geeks reciting Monty Python?





Cause that was fun.
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#128 Nov 10 2010 at 6:13 PM Rating: Default
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Call me the latter.

"We are the knights that go, NEEK!!"

haha

Those were the days.

Mo
#129 Nov 10 2010 at 6:44 PM Rating: Default
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RdeLeo wrote:
This is kinda what I was telling to a friend. Most of the "issues" with the game have a temporary work around. But today's society is all about instant gratification and no time for anything. Everyone is in a hurry to the next step. This step in society its so used to have everything in the press of a click, or in the whine of a cry. Society has molded people this way this days, where if you dont get what you want, when you want it, there its a problem. Not everyone is willing to work for the things. They want to skip the process betwen start and ending.

I recommend watching Ellen DeGeneres: Here and Now, its an excellent example of what modern life has turned most people into.


Great Recommendations!!! Rate up!!

and I recommend anybody over age or 25 should watch it!
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#130 Nov 10 2010 at 6:45 PM Rating: Default
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Sir mokatu wrote:
I couldn't agree more, but you can't stop the haters, the whiners, etc.

These forums reminds me of a high school cafeteria as if FFXIV was the new kid everybody picks on. It doesn't matter who tries to defend it, it only makes things worse for you, and FFXIV. This is the only game where people who like to play are being made fun of.

For those of you who want to laugh because I play FFXIV, @#%^ you. lol

Mo


Yeah, and I thought my school day were forgotten and buried long time ago ... but seems not...
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#131 Nov 10 2010 at 7:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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Sir mokatu wrote:
I couldn't agree more, but you can't stop the haters, the whiners, etc.

These forums reminds me of a high school cafeteria as if FFXIV was the new kid everybody picks on. It doesn't matter who tries to defend it, it only makes things worse for you, and FFXIV. This is the only game where people who like to play are being made fun of.

For those of you who want to laugh because I play FFXIV, @#%^ you. lol

Mo


See, here is the thing. A few people are "picking on" this game yes, but alot more people are constructively critisizing the game.

Get past the flaming, because in the end if you enjoy the game then some trolls flames mean nothing. However do not be blind to the real issues that alot of people are bringing up - legitimate ones, ones that the fansite staff and even SE themselves acknowledge.

Just as you do not wish to be "made fun of", the people who really do want to enjoy the game but cannot get past some of the legitimate flaws do not wish to be dismissed as something of a lower class gamer.

Seriously, look for a legitimate constructive critisim about this game and try to find one without the "go back to wow" or some other such condesending comment.

Both sides need to chill out, yes. But the turnaround is fairly amusing when you take a step back.
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#132 Nov 10 2010 at 8:35 PM Rating: Default
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The design of FFXIV IMHO at the moment seems to be a solo game.

This is what i feel is missing from FFXIV and what most of us still expected.... the camaraderie of Partying (FFXI in Valkrum party moaning together about the next grind spot). That was actually great memory.

Anything you want you can go get yourself in FFXIV: harvest or mine for mats to craft in order to create gear, weapons, food so you can level your character rather easily if i say so myself, just time consuming... i know of the random SP and it's arguments too i have the same issues.


Basically for the moment it is a matter of personal gaming needs:

Long horizontal fullfilment line of low to medium enjoyment with a few pockets of high excitement. More long term Fulfillment less short term excitement.
VS
Short Vertical fulfillment line of med-high to high enjoyment with few pockets of low enjoyment. More excitement less long term fulfillment. Just bragging rights.

Right now FFXIV released the game for the long horizontal gamers and of course to garner as many monthly payments as possible too.

It is very interesting where i read that FFXIV is "mostly" accepted rather well by the Japanese.... and i am guessing is has to do with the hive mind culture of the Japanese vs the American interdependency. To whine about a thing that you cannot make changes to yourself is only self defeating the the whole purpose OF gaming... Figuring the game out.

The question would be what type of gamer are you?

If the game doesn't fit your style just find a game that does until SE has made changes to fit your style. Then come on back and beat the **** out of it to endgame.

We all want to be there first, done that first or made that first. That is the core of being human. We only have a finite time to to do this in RL. FFXIV just happens to make the GAME seem to much like real life and impede the enjoyment most are looking for that sometimes drudgery of life does not provide..... i said "sometimes".


I feel tired after 8 hours of RL work. I myself just don't want to feel tired after playing 2-3 hours FFXIV.



I'm going to give it time because anything worth waiting for is worth playing.


"Violence is the last resort of the ignorant"






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