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The (Un)Official FFXI/FFXIV Comparative Analysis Thread.Follow

#1 Nov 07 2010 at 10:00 PM Rating: Good
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I've read about 9.3 gazillion posts about this game. Some good, some bad, but I do notice a constant in alot of these posts, comparisons to FFXI. I played FFXI for 6 years give or take a month or two here or there as I am sure many who play FFXIV did. I am curious as to what you approve/disapprove of when comparing the two games. Try to be constructive and not inflammatory cause in the end we all want this game to be better.

For me, from the first minute I got outside San d'Oria and into East Ronfare I was hooked. Bilbo's line from "Fellowship of the Ring" comes to mind, "It's a dangerous business, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no telling where you might be swept off to." The promise of excitement from a massive adventure loomed over me. Grinding out those early levels was bliss. I remember looking forward to getting "Provoke" and my first weapon skill "Fast Blade". Yeah I used a sword when first leveling warrior. What the **** did I know. Turning in bat wings and rabbit hides for minimal monetary gains just so I could afford some trivial piece of armor which would be unknowingly obsolete in 2 levels. I remember that stuff with great fondness. Maybe more so than gaining greater rewards later in the game. I sensed the enormity of the game early on but felt secure because I wasn't forced to leave my little home town to keep moving forward in levels and storyline.

For me, that magic isn't there with FFXIV, as much as I want it to be. Walking out of and around Ul'dah I get the sense of being inundated with a feeling of emptiness. I sense it's expected of me to know immediately or very quickly how to "make a living". No wonder. No skill I am looking forward to unlocking. No quest I gleefully try to finish. No rewards other than money, exp or crafting items.

I still have a Wing Pendant in my moghouse in FFXI(one of the first quest rewards I ever got). In 6 years are you going to have a piece of gear in FFXIV that you got in your first month?

Haha, this ended up sounding more nostalgic and less comparative than I intended.

Maybe I'm jaded. ****, maybe we all are.
#2 Nov 07 2010 at 10:34 PM Rating: Good
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FFXI was simply better designed and executed in most ways, and the team was more inspired going in. While I can see the inspiration faintly showing through in FFXIV, the design and execution are so screwed up you're likely to miss it. It's there, they just need quite a bit of time to dig it out of the muck. Also, basically nothing is finished and implemented. I'm sure when they get in everything that's supposed to be there, the magic will come back.

If you wanted my "moment," it would have to be spawning as a 1WHM/0 in Bastok and hearing the music for the first time. I was ready for my adventure.
#3 Nov 07 2010 at 11:00 PM Rating: Good
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Unless you started at JP launch there isn't a fair comparison to be made. Being nostalgic about FFXI isn't fair to FFXIV and if FFXI was your first MMO that also gives FFXI an unfair advantage when comparing the two.
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#4 Nov 07 2010 at 11:20 PM Rating: Good
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I understand how you feel, FFXI made me feel the same way. But back then I was completely new to the MMO scene. To many people FFXI was their first MMORPG. The only online game I played at the time was Diablo 2. The consept that I could combind jobs, run for hours and get nowhere, travel by land, water, magic & air awed me.

Like all warriors I started with an Onion sword, but soon dropped that when I found a merchant selling a Scythe. It looked awesome, I couldn't hit the broad side of Sandoria. But that didn't matter, I had provoke! And that got me party invites.

I don't think the problem here is with FFXIV, but that all of us are now longer MMO Noobs.

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#5 Nov 08 2010 at 12:04 AM Rating: Good
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TauuOfSiren wrote:
Unless you started at JP launch there isn't a fair comparison to be made. Being nostalgic about FFXI isn't fair to FFXIV and if FFXI was your first MMO that also gives FFXI an unfair advantage when comparing the two.


What Tauu said.

Quote:
I don't think the problem here is with FFXIV, but that all of us are now longer MMO Noobs.


Agreed.


Edited, Nov 8th 2010 1:07am by MisterBigglesworth

Edited, Nov 8th 2010 1:07am by MisterBigglesworth
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#6 Nov 08 2010 at 12:14 AM Rating: Decent
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Nostalgia is certainly a power aphrodisiac, and novelty is also an important source of enjoyment... but I don't think it says much for XIV that the game can't stand on its own. It still has a fair amount of novelty, and probably more nostalgia factor than most other MMO releases.

If anything, I think it's an example of how pretty much any game can be liked by a small population based on a couple of qualities inherent to any new game.
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#7 Nov 08 2010 at 12:22 AM Rating: Excellent
I thought this thread would be about actual comparisons between the two games! That would have been kind of interesting, but at the same time, would not have really been fair.

I'd like to see a side-by-side comparison of FFXI and FFXIV when each were a month old. I think FFXI had more zones. I don't think either had an AH. And both had small central storyline (FFXI was through rank 5). Not sure when chocos and airships entered FFXI. Also not sure how many random quests FFXI had at release.

One thing's for sure though... I'm not sure if any game I ever play will ever beat FFXI for the nostalgia factor.

Edit: Great point brought up by the poster below me.

Edited, Nov 8th 2010 12:28am by Thayos
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#8 Nov 08 2010 at 2:15 AM Rating: Good
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It's not fair to compare XIV's current state to XI when it was released to NA.

XI had about a year to be polished before it was released to NA. Instead of starting XIV a month ago, if you started it a year from now you might have had that "magical" feeling you had in XI.

Give XIV some time. It's still an infant. Give it another 10-11 months and then compare the game to XI at NA release.
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#9 Nov 08 2010 at 2:46 AM Rating: Good
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umm I am not sure...
I started FFXI around JP release, and that was not my first few MMO..
At that time, even AH was not implanted, shopping(or getting what you need) is actually a way better experience than now because:
1. In contrast to FFXIV, the newbie of FFXI dont have much gil to waste.
2. FFXI is way less crafting dependent in the beginning level
3. NPC price is reasonable for pre-20 equipment
4. Mob drop decent gear fairly often
5. National Equipment bought by CP!!!!!!
6. there are more vendors that actually sell useful stuff
7. Bazaar interface, combined with the UI, is way faster then XIV, but functional identical.

More over, with all the ppl bazaaring, it made Bastok Market a REAL market atmosphere, which most NA player seldom have chance to see.

Not only that, FFXI have way greater geographcial variety since the beginning. And with all the quest, plus Missonsss [(1-1~3-2)x3+(3-3)+4] that made you feel you were actually doing something for your in-game nation.

Jobs are more distinctive (IMO), and there is even more weapon choices.

plus the excitement of getting Subjob(and the process to it. I took a WHOLE month to do that).

FFXI is way more enjoyable than FFXIV at the original release time.

Edited, Nov 8th 2010 2:02pm by timmyofalex
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#10 Nov 08 2010 at 2:54 AM Rating: Default
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TauuOfSiren wrote:
Unless you started at JP launch there isn't a fair comparison to be made. Being nostalgic about FFXI isn't fair to FFXIV and if FFXI was your first MMO that also gives FFXI an unfair advantage when comparing the two.


Thats true, I joined EU release and its a different thing when you 1st join a ALREADY experienced MMO.

Although I do remember Emergency Maintenance often, SE suffering Hacks when they changed the EXP required for later levels.

Seriously though I think this game does have magic but not the same magic, its always new magic.

Being able to run around and die and not Delevel.. I have enjoyed exploring but will admit the content isnt there but I knew that when I joined.
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#11 Nov 08 2010 at 8:53 AM Rating: Good
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The NA release had a huge advantage compared to the state of FFXIV upon release. FFXI was released May of 2002 in Japan, October of 2003 for NA PC and March of 2004 for PS2.

Edited, Nov 8th 2010 9:58am by MisterBigglesworth
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#12 Nov 08 2010 at 10:43 AM Rating: Good
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oh yay...so in 2 years we'll have a decent game?

awesome!!!...that's like dating a fat girl thats on a diet...lol
#13 Nov 08 2010 at 1:26 PM Rating: Decent
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The thing that upsets me the most is that it seems like SE didn't learn anything from FFXI, or the FFXIV beta tests. If this game had been developed by some unknown company, maybe I wouldn't be so disappointed with it.

#14 Nov 08 2010 at 1:50 PM Rating: Good
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I wonder why everyone seems to agree that XIV isn't comparable to XI in its current state. I just don't understand that reasoning.

Rapture was in development for about 5 years, there was plenty of time to brush up on what MMOs were doing, how they were evolving and a good **** long time to implement things that worked in XI into XIV instead of making a bare bones MMO w/ the promise of "It'll get better later." I can understand lack of content but lack of streamlined and friendly UI, bugs comin out the ***, broken systems in place, random as **** Skill ups, horrendous travel etc etc...

True a lot of major changes came to XI in the last 2 years but it wouldn't have taken so long for XIV to add/subtract somethings from XI's formula for a more streamlined and User friendly experience >_> not repeat old mistakes.

So XI didn't have an AH @ launch. Why should XIV, in 2010 repeat that same mistake? Don't you think SE would have learned that players want a quick and easy way to sell stuff? The market wards aren't too horrifying (after that 1st patch that gave wards some identification) but what excuse do they have for releasing it in that state? Was it really ok for them to release wards w/ names like Black oak wards? SE also said that they were trying to make a game that current XI fans would enjoy, well XI has certain minimum requirments to be met @ this point in time. And sadly XIV feels like were stepping back in time. Heres a few reasons as to why.

XI's travel sucked until about a few years ago when extra teles popped up, there are NPCs that teleport u for 300 gil to Aht Urghan, and teles to Jeuno from there, tons of Outpost warps (they lowered the price a couple years back so some are pretty cheap), a moogle who can tele u to any of the 3 starter cities and selbina & mhaura i think for 300 gil. Sure, only if the correct kupo power is around but that requirment could have been done away with, especially when the zones in XIV are this huge o.o

why is it when you click say, your pants in your equip menu, every single item shows up. XI hasn't had that problem for years (if ever idk) why would you make it so we have to scroll thru the inventory we still cannot sort yet to find my other pair of pants?

I think people forget that in an over saturated market of MMOs that player choices are far greater than what they were in 2002. We don't have to stick around for a year and a half for the game to "Get better" there are a ton of F2P games that you can waste ur time w/ until XIV is better.

Nostalgia is a powerful force but if ur gonna sit in the dark (because XIV hasn't added the patch for the lights yet), and tell yourself that this game is still better than its predecessor that released 8 years ago on a technical standpoint >_> then you sir need a wake up call.

Edit: spelling

Edited, Nov 8th 2010 2:04pm by Toukai
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#15 Nov 08 2010 at 2:10 PM Rating: Decent
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not having an AH @ launch isn't a mistake. Its a smart idea if you REALLY think about it. Since crafts are now classes, so more items are being made more often by more players. The AH would be too full of gear no one could sell it. your items would never sell unless lucky.
Plus alot of ppl never seen an inital game launch. They see the 1-2 years after NA launch.
I wish I could play ffxiv. Flaws and all. I just want to make my character and get my lil certificate (i like hpw they look) And be able to play a dream job. :) How many games/ mmo lets you make your own characters class/job. More so mmo. I think that ppl are too venteran to play mmo @ launch now. They are too into theocrafting and building "optimal" characters. They are no longer experimenting with what works for them or being creative. Its all what is the strongest I can be for "endgame".

I'm seeing ppl more wanting to solo then go out and meet ppl. Which ffxi was never really like. Also skill ups was random in ffxi also.
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#16 Nov 08 2010 at 2:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Do you guys remb the first BCNM you did in FF11 and recv a crap load of treasure and the sense of teamwork and satisfaction that came with it! I can recall getting phalanx from one of the drops and at that time it cost like 200k and i was like jumping off the roof called like every friend i knew that played the game lmao..the old days! now i sit in a marketward calling friends to see if they have a brass dagger for sale!
#17 Nov 08 2010 at 2:34 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
I believe that the primary issue is that people don't think out their responses to stimuli. People say for example, FFXI started out bare bones, which it did, and their next logical step is "Well, they should have learned from their mistakes." The logical fallacy there is that people just jumped from the fact that it was bare bones to the fact that bare bones is BAD. When in fact they have not set up any arguments to that effect.

Furthermore, I would portend that they (SE) are using a model that they saw no problems with, perhaps because they did not do a global release, instead they did a purely domestic release. And as such, did not get the full gamut of feedback, or perhaps as has been stated, the MMO market was in its infancy and was willing to accept anything and be patient...

That brings us to our current situation, people are upset that the game is bare bones in its current state. I submit to you that there are in fact things to be done in the game, outside of leves, crafting, exploration, bartering, making gil, exploration of the classes, mixing of class abilities, exploration of party dynamics, and gathering. There is a social dynamic to be found as well.

Tolkien said it best, "There is nothing like looking, if you want to find something. You certainly usually find something, if you look, but it is not always quite the something you were after.”

If you want to have a positive gaming experience, You Will have a positive gaming experience. It's not about sitting in a corner, with your fingers in your ears, rocking back and forth, screaming la-la-la-la-la, when someone comes up with major faults in the game's design. It's about openly admitting there are faults, maybe they are blaring to some people...they aren't to everyone.

If you want to find something you like. You will find something you like.


I posted this a few topics down, and felt it was relevant. I'd like to echo that there's a reason for no AH, as the Irishman said.

I had the same feeling of awe and mysticism when I started FFXI. But the point that's being abused here is that SE released the game the same way they did FFXI because it worked for them when they did it this way in the past. Perhaps that was a horribad idea but I can somewhat see their reasoning...
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#18 Nov 08 2010 at 3:18 PM Rating: Good
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Setting the technical things aside the main failure of 14 is where 11 excelled.

FF11 had goals. Starting on small scale: the next tier of weapon/armor, next job ability and getting bigger and bigger - get subjob, get chocobo license, flag an advanced job, win a BCNM, finish mission, obtain uber equipment. You always had something close to reach for and you could dream of long time goals.

In FF14 there is nothing to aim for except story line cut-scenes on certain levels. Job abilities are too diluted and too useless to be exited about. You get new abilities every 2 levels and they are the same as old abilities and you are still use your ability #1 most of the time. Nothing like, say, THF reaching 15 and getting Sneak Attack or WHM getting Sneak/Invis or RNG shooting his first Sidewinder. Equipment is even more useless - first of all you probably won't be able to buy it and if bought - won't be able to repair and even when new it won't be much different from the old equipment except in looks. And for looks you can already wear it right now.
#19 Nov 08 2010 at 3:34 PM Rating: Decent
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Zanist wrote:

Quote:
I believe that the primary issue is that people don't think out their responses to stimuli. People say for example, FFXI started out bare bones, which it did, and their next logical step is "Well, they should have learned from their mistakes." The logical fallacy there is that people just jumped from the fact that it was bare bones to the fact that bare bones is BAD. When in fact they have not set up any arguments to that effect.

Furthermore, I would portend that they (SE) are using a model that they saw no problems with, perhaps because they did not do a global release, instead they did a purely domestic release. And as such, did not get the full gamut of feedback, or perhaps as has been stated, the MMO market was in its infancy and was willing to accept anything and be patient...

That brings us to our current situation, people are upset that the game is bare bones in its current state. I submit to you that there are in fact things to be done in the game, outside of leves, crafting, exploration, bartering, making gil, exploration of the classes, mixing of class abilities, exploration of party dynamics, and gathering. There is a social dynamic to be found as well.

Tolkien said it best, "There is nothing like looking, if you want to find something. You certainly usually find something, if you look, but it is not always quite the something you were after.”

If you want to have a positive gaming experience, You Will have a positive gaming experience. It's not about sitting in a corner, with your fingers in your ears, rocking back and forth, screaming la-la-la-la-la, when someone comes up with major faults in the game's design. It's about openly admitting there are faults, maybe they are blaring to some people...they aren't to everyone.

If you want to find something you like. You will find something you like.


I posted this a few topics down, and felt it was relevant. I'd like to echo that there's a reason for no AH, as the Irishman said.

I had the same feeling of awe and mysticism when I started FFXI. But the point that's being abused here is that SE released the game the same way they did FFXI because it worked for them when they did it this way in the past. Perhaps that was a horribad idea but I can somewhat see their reasoning...


I could see that reasoning if I was completely blind to the current market place and player base. If this was 2002 I could see producing ffxiv this way but its 2010 mmo's is a mature market dominated by blizzard. Going backwards is an insanely poor idea they needed to have made ffxi next generation not this thing they produced they had years to build on a successful mmo design refine and improve it and add superior graphics and game play and this game is just simply pretty graphics with zero real substance and hard to play the menus still make me say wtf and why can't i move with my mouse lol still crying about that. I guess for me playing is more mundane than fantasy taking what seems like an hour to fail a crafting leve just isn't fun after the tenth time. This game had such potential but its current design and many many mundane time sinks have me back playing ffxi with a vengeance teaming up taking out hnm and low manning tons of old content for fun not sure if ffxiv will ever feel like that when I have to stop every 5 minutes to repair my armor or pay someone to do it for me. Man the repair system alone makes me think someone was smoking crack on the cost and design of that part of the game **** I give my right arm for them to implement something reasonable like wow and not needing to carry hundred different items and level every craft to just to fix your own gear or pay insane fees....
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#20 Nov 08 2010 at 3:42 PM Rating: Default
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