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Most people that are angry dont craft?Follow

#52 Nov 10 2010 at 10:00 AM Rating: Default
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It's not about right or wrong, it's just an observation that people that don't like to craft usually don't like XIV. Simple.
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Irishclass777 said: crafting is crafting no matter the game just because crafting is a job in ffxiv don't it much change much.


#53 Nov 10 2010 at 10:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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Tenkuro wrote:
Do you craft? Can you explain why I succeeded for two days straight on a rank 10 craft at rank 18, then all of a sudden fail nearly 40%? I'm trying to level up my crafts so I can make arrows to level my archer. Have you played archer? Have you taken an hour to clear up enough inventory space to hold 22 stacks of arrows and have it run out in under an hour?


I'm starting to believe that SE doesn't want combat characters (like archer) to support their own gear (like arrows). This kinda fits with crafting classes being their own "job" instead of side-jobs like in FFXI. Just look at the requirements to make rank 3 arrows from scratch: Carpenter 24, Alchemist 14, Weaver 10, Blacksmith 12... Obviously archers are not meant to be able to make their own arrows in the field but rather buy them from crafters ahead of time. I'd be ok with that system if arrows either stacked to 999 or were bundled into quivers, but right now stocking up on arrows is a huge inventory burden. Arrows are obviously an extreme example but in order to make your own gear for any combat class the corresponding crafting class has to be 5-10 ranks higher.
#54 Nov 10 2010 at 10:35 AM Rating: Decent
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Hydragyrum wrote:
Tenkuro wrote:
Do you craft? Can you explain why I succeeded for two days straight on a rank 10 craft at rank 18, then all of a sudden fail nearly 40%? I'm trying to level up my crafts so I can make arrows to level my archer. Have you played archer? Have you taken an hour to clear up enough inventory space to hold 22 stacks of arrows and have it run out in under an hour?


I'm starting to believe that SE doesn't want combat characters (like archer) to support their own gear (like arrows). This kinda fits with crafting classes being their own "job" instead of side-jobs like in FFXI. Just look at the requirements to make rank 3 arrows from scratch: Carpenter 24, Alchemist 14, Weaver 10, Blacksmith 12... Obviously archers are not meant to be able to make their own arrows in the field but rather buy them from crafters ahead of time. I'd be ok with that system if arrows either stacked to 999 or were bundled into quivers, but right now stocking up on arrows is a huge inventory burden. Arrows are obviously an extreme example but in order to make your own gear for any combat class the corresponding crafting class has to be 5-10 ranks higher.


YES!!! This. This is EXACTLY what they wanted. Which is why they are trying to make the economy more interactive (although I'm not saying that it's good yet, but let's not start that again). If playing as a crafter just involved "Go to AH, buy easily available mats, craft, put stuff up on AH, log out" it would be a very boring game. Now the crafters aren't just crafters but businesspeople. The actual experience should improve in the upcoming updates.
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#55 Nov 10 2010 at 10:43 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
YES!!! This. This is EXACTLY what they wanted. Which is why they are trying to make the economy more interactive (although I'm not saying that it's good yet, but let's not start that again). If playing as a crafter just involved "Go to AH, buy easily available mats, craft, put stuff up on AH, log out" it would be a very boring game. Now the crafters aren't just crafters but businesspeople. The actual experience should improve in the upcoming updates.


This...
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Irishclass777 said: crafting is crafting no matter the game just because crafting is a job in ffxiv don't it much change much.


#56 Nov 10 2010 at 11:20 AM Rating: Excellent
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tmproff wrote:
Quote:
YES!!! This. This is EXACTLY what they wanted. Which is why they are trying to make the economy more interactive (although I'm not saying that it's good yet, but let's not start that again). If playing as a crafter just involved "Go to AH, buy easily available mats, craft, put stuff up on AH, log out" it would be a very boring game. Now the crafters aren't just crafters but businesspeople. The actual experience should improve in the upcoming updates.


This...


See many people feel that taking 45 minutes to repair, and buy their arrows is boring. they'd like to buy their consumables quickly and get back to doing what they'd like to do.

consider the flip side. A crafter who only wants to craft. How'd he feel if he had to go out and grind on mobs for a few hours until he could start synthing again.
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#57 Nov 10 2010 at 11:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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I rarely go to the market wards, but anytime I do go, I have to browse thru 12+ bazaars to find something I want.

This to me is not "interactive", "/sh <conjurer> R20+ <main hand> <can I have it>" is a bit more "interactive. But, I'd still rather deal with an AH, than have to use this RETARDED system.

#58 Nov 10 2010 at 11:41 AM Rating: Good
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Aurelius wrote:
I was responding to some else's (admittedly exaggerated) claim that they had to level all these different classes just to support a rank 5 character. And my point was very simple; you can raise any crafting class to rank 10 in 3-4 leve resets with no mats or shards of your own. Once at 10, you can repair up to rank 20 NQ gear. And if you continue on and do 2-3 local leves for that class every reset, you'll continue to progress with that class and with little/no mats of your own, you shouldn't have too much difficulty keeping pace with your combat classes. The thing is, as you pointed out, we're now about 6 weeks in and the people who invested no time into DoH classes are getting burned on repairs. It would be on thing if it were FFXI style crafting. And again, I'm not saying it's perfect, but it's not like people are without recourse if they don't like what happens when they focus exclusively on combat classes.


Unfortunately, local leves fail to keep pace with DoW/DoM classes once people start partying. It's actually not even close. Even going to all 3 cities, there aren't enough local leves 10-20 to focus on a single craft w/o wasting most of your slots on worthless 100SP R1's. Some resets, there aren't even enough to satisfy 2 crafts After R15 or so, you pretty much have to spend equal (if not more) time grinding crafts as you do grinding combat--even to maintain the 10 level deficit. Note that is grinding, not leves. Local leve's won't even begin to dent the 10-15k/HR combat classes pull down
#59 Nov 10 2010 at 12:19 PM Rating: Decent
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tmproff wrote:
It's not about right or wrong, it's just an observation that people that don't like to craft usually don't like XIV. Simple.


What about those who do like to craft but have chosen not to because the interface lag and inventory space and horrible time it takes to find mats for certain things as well as dump what they make add to the issue of inventory space?

I do a lot of crafting. I also find I end up having to npc over half of what I craft. I don't mind so much since I tend to do complimenting crafts and don't have to buy what I need to make a synth. But what about some of the more complicated ones that take mats from 4-6 different crafts, often some of those mats being way higher then what the completed product is? Not having an easy way to search out the materials needed makes this all the more time consuming. I had a friend who was trying to craft a new piece of gear for himself and spent 3 days of doing nothing but searching market wards for certain mats. In the end, the synth broke and they were over recommended level for it, in crafting gear and with buff. I think for some people, this would be more reason to walk away then anything else.

They have admitted the crafting system is a bit out of whack atm, and there are those who are holding off on crafting until some of this is fixed and it's more viable for them. Not everyone wants to grind their crafting levels by doing leves. I know when I do my leves, between the lag, the running to locations (higher level camps for level 1 leves?) and waiting for npcs to load so I can pick up the mats needed to complete the leves, to do all 8, I'm looking at a couple of hours. And this is staying in one city and doing leves for a couple of different crafts and trying to make sure I only have to go to one or two camps to do them instead of all over.

Everyone who is going to enjoy the game is going to enjoy it for something different. As things are tweaked and more content is added those who feel like this game is more of a job then entertainment may find something they like out of it.
#60 Nov 10 2010 at 1:32 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
consider the flip side. A crafter who only wants to craft. How'd he feel if he had to go out and grind on mobs for a few hours until he could start synthing again.


I guess you're right, the opposite is possibly correct as well. People that JUST craft are probably just as frustrated as those that only fight. I think you have to have a balance of the 2.

Quote:
Not everyone wants to grind their crafting levels by doing leves.

I totally agree. Now that my crafting levels are 10+, I have found that it is much easier to come on the forums and read what is best to grind on (Least amount of shards / mats for the xp). I still do leves, but not near as much as I used to.

Again, I'll say that being in a good LS is important to crafters. I dont use near as many lightning shards as I do wind, so I'm happy to swap with a fellow guildie. Don't need those willow logs? I'll take em....Oh! I found you a ton of cotton balls......

You get the point.
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Irishclass777 said: crafting is crafting no matter the game just because crafting is a job in ffxiv don't it much change much.


#61 Nov 10 2010 at 1:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
...10-15k/HR combat classes pull down


Exception, not the norm. People who tell you this is their avg SP/hour are lying. Period.

Quote:
See many people feel that taking 45 minutes to repair, and buy their arrows is boring. they'd like to buy their consumables quickly and get back to doing what they'd like to do.


^. I like to adventure. Market ward shopping, NPC repairing, vendoring, crafting, and working on leves aren't really fun for me. It's fine if these are necessary evils and minor inconveniences, but all of these activities are massive time sinks: too grindy, too much travel, too many laggy menu's, and just too time consuming.

Everyone assigns a different value to their time based upon how much you play. If you play XIV 4, 5, 6 hours a day, the 45 minutes wasted isn't that big a deal. But when you only get a few hours in a few times a week...

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#62 Nov 10 2010 at 1:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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Gadhelyn wrote:
Hydragyrum wrote:
Tenkuro wrote:
Do you craft? Can you explain why I succeeded for two days straight on a rank 10 craft at rank 18, then all of a sudden fail nearly 40%? I'm trying to level up my crafts so I can make arrows to level my archer. Have you played archer? Have you taken an hour to clear up enough inventory space to hold 22 stacks of arrows and have it run out in under an hour?


I'm starting to believe that SE doesn't want combat characters (like archer) to support their own gear (like arrows). This kinda fits with crafting classes being their own "job" instead of side-jobs like in FFXI. Just look at the requirements to make rank 3 arrows from scratch: Carpenter 24, Alchemist 14, Weaver 10, Blacksmith 12... Obviously archers are not meant to be able to make their own arrows in the field but rather buy them from crafters ahead of time. I'd be ok with that system if arrows either stacked to 999 or were bundled into quivers, but right now stocking up on arrows is a huge inventory burden. Arrows are obviously an extreme example but in order to make your own gear for any combat class the corresponding crafting class has to be 5-10 ranks higher.


YES!!! This. This is EXACTLY what they wanted. Which is why they are trying to make the economy more interactive (although I'm not saying that it's good yet, but let's not start that again). If playing as a crafter just involved "Go to AH, buy easily available mats, craft, put stuff up on AH, log out" it would be a very boring game. Now the crafters aren't just crafters but businesspeople. The actual experience should improve in the upcoming updates.


I completely see your point, and I'm very glad that some people are enjoying the crafting, but it's not my cup of Earl Grey.

I wanted to be an adventurer in FFXIV - I wanted to see what was over the next hill, battle evil creatures and wear fancy loot. I didn't want to spend more time learning how to repair my underwear than I did hitting things in the face.
#63 Nov 10 2010 at 4:22 PM Rating: Decent
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Marmaliser wrote:
Gadhelyn wrote:
Hydragyrum wrote:
Tenkuro wrote:
Do you craft? Can you explain why I succeeded for two days straight on a rank 10 craft at rank 18, then all of a sudden fail nearly 40%? I'm trying to level up my crafts so I can make arrows to level my archer. Have you played archer? Have you taken an hour to clear up enough inventory space to hold 22 stacks of arrows and have it run out in under an hour?


I'm starting to believe that SE doesn't want combat characters (like archer) to support their own gear (like arrows). This kinda fits with crafting classes being their own "job" instead of side-jobs like in FFXI. Just look at the requirements to make rank 3 arrows from scratch: Carpenter 24, Alchemist 14, Weaver 10, Blacksmith 12... Obviously archers are not meant to be able to make their own arrows in the field but rather buy them from crafters ahead of time. I'd be ok with that system if arrows either stacked to 999 or were bundled into quivers, but right now stocking up on arrows is a huge inventory burden. Arrows are obviously an extreme example but in order to make your own gear for any combat class the corresponding crafting class has to be 5-10 ranks higher.


YES!!! This. This is EXACTLY what they wanted. Which is why they are trying to make the economy more interactive (although I'm not saying that it's good yet, but let's not start that again). If playing as a crafter just involved "Go to AH, buy easily available mats, craft, put stuff up on AH, log out" it would be a very boring game. Now the crafters aren't just crafters but businesspeople. The actual experience should improve in the upcoming updates.


I completely see your point, and I'm very glad that some people are enjoying the crafting, but it's not my cup of Earl Grey.

I wanted to be an adventurer in FFXIV - I wanted to see what was over the next hill, battle evil creatures and wear fancy loot. I didn't want to spend more time learning how to repair my underwear than I did hitting things in the face.


Well, crafters aren't limited to the city, we do have to make deliveries to camps. Some people prefer to craft in the camps. Make friends with crafters who will gladly repair items for you. Yes, it does mean having to go into a camp or city, but at least you can touch an aethryte and recharge HP/MP.

I do have my gladiator leveled a little. I try to avoid it as much as possible, but it's the easier way to get crystals. Most things I craft I have gathered myself. What I can't gather myself I tend to buy off LS members or perhaps happen upon it in the wards. If I can't find it, I hold off on crafting it. I have 3 stacks of latex waiting for me to get some brimstone to make rubber.

Edit: This was the original intent of the Crafter Consortium on Besaid. Having a linkshell someone can go to for crafting services.

Edited, Nov 10th 2010 4:23pm by Gadhelyn
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#64 Nov 10 2010 at 5:22 PM Rating: Decent
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I have a Con at 13 and Thm at 12, the only ability I change on my action bar is the tp move, and change the weapon, but it feels like I'm playing the same class, even though its a hybrid mix of abilities from both classes.

So the whole arguement of if I wanna play only one class I have a right to arguement can be put to rest simply by leveling both DoM. The classes get stronger when you start mixxing abilities, how can you not like that system. The combinations you can create are pretty endless, completely tailor making your own playstyle. You can always grind normally on your main and level up subs via levequests (if you dont really care much for your sub)

You are solely responsible for being the grand designer of your own playstyle, how can anyone not think that is cool. Much too much of the "!" needs to be laid to rest. We've been given the task to create unique playstyles, have fun with it.

I am hooked on crafting btw, and having fun killing IT mobs by kiting and letting punishing barbs and shock spikes doing all the dirty work lol. So yeah I found ways to have fun.
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#65 Nov 10 2010 at 5:37 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I don't understand this mentality that it's acceptable to be punished for engaging in playstyles that have no impact on other players.


In answer to this post: Even before this game was release, SE stated that this game was based around multi-class play. I can not speak for everyone's situation, but if you did not read or learn about this game beforehand, then chose to play and focus on one class and found it unsavory, then that is on you, not SE. They said ahead of time this is not a solo class friendly game. If you want to burn through one class, then by all means, blaze through that fatigue system. You are only being as punished as anyone else, but others have accepted the uniqueness of the game and adapted. If you can not find the enjoyment in their product, feel free to step away. This is not a "deal with it or get out", this is common sense, if you are not enjoying something, then stop putting yourself through it, no one is forcing your hand.

secondly,

Quote:
See many people feel that taking 45 minutes to repair, and buy their arrows is boring. they'd like to buy their consumables quickly and get back to doing what they'd like to do.

consider the flip side. A crafter who only wants to craft. How'd he feel if he had to go out and grind on mobs for a few hours until he could start synthing again.


I am a crafter who wants to craft, i have 26 carpenter/leather, 18 armorer, 17 blacksmith, 14 weaver, 12 gold, 10 alch, 8 cul. I am also a 24 bot and a 21 miner. I also happen to be a 10+ of every DoW class. Why do I have all those lvl'd? because I want to be self sufficient. I consider myself a crafter solely, but I have lvl'd the other classes because I have had to grind on mobs for my materials. So I don't get bent out of shape when I have to go collect, because that is part of playing the game my way. If you don't want to be self sufficient, there are different avenues to utilize, however flawed they may be (different forums). Also, speaking for Mysidia, I amost never, NEVER, see people shout for repairs. If you need someone to repair your gear, ask. I don't see why it takes 45 min to get something repaired unless you are offering something not worthy of a repair reward. If it costs you 20k to fix an item, don't offer 1k, offer 5k. A crafter has to justify the cost of the repair item vs. the reward being offered.

Now this is how I feel and this is just my opinion, but I feel that a lot of people upset with this game are playing too linear or aren't fully understanding how the in game economy/system works. But then again, that's just my opinion.

~Skye
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#66 Nov 10 2010 at 5:45 PM Rating: Decent
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SkyeAyatari wrote:
Quote:
I don't understand this mentality that it's acceptable to be punished for engaging in playstyles that have no impact on other players.


In answer to this post: Even before this game was release, SE stated that this game was based around multi-class play. I can not speak for everyone's situation, but if you did not read or learn about this game beforehand, then chose to play and focus on one class and found it unsavory, then that is on you, not SE. They said ahead of time this is not a solo class friendly game. If you want to burn through one class, then by all means, blaze through that fatigue system. You are only being as punished as anyone else, but others have accepted the uniqueness of the game and adapted. If you can not find the enjoyment in their product, feel free to step away. This is not a "deal with it or get out", this is common sense, if you are not enjoying something, then stop putting yourself through it, no one is forcing your hand.

secondly,

Quote:
See many people feel that taking 45 minutes to repair, and buy their arrows is boring. they'd like to buy their consumables quickly and get back to doing what they'd like to do.

consider the flip side. A crafter who only wants to craft. How'd he feel if he had to go out and grind on mobs for a few hours until he could start synthing again.


I am a crafter who wants to craft, i have 26 carpenter/leather, 18 armorer, 17 blacksmith, 14 weaver, 12 gold, 10 alch, 8 cul. I am also a 24 bot and a 21 miner. I also happen to be a 10+ of every DoW class. Why do I have all those lvl'd? because I want to be self sufficient. I consider myself a crafter solely, but I have lvl'd the other classes because I have had to grind on mobs for my materials. So I don't get bent out of shape when I have to go collect, because that is part of playing the game my way. If you don't want to be self sufficient, there are different avenues to utilize, however flawed they may be (different forums). Also, speaking for Mysidia, I amost never, NEVER, see people shout for repairs. If you need someone to repair your gear, ask. I don't see why it takes 45 min to get something repaired unless you are offering something not worthy of a repair reward. If it costs you 20k to fix an item, don't offer 1k, offer 5k. A crafter has to justify the cost of the repair item vs. the reward being offered.

Now this is how I feel and this is just my opinion, but I feel that a lot of people upset with this game are playing too linear or aren't fully understanding how the in game economy/system works. But then again, that's just my opinion.

~Skye


I agree with this 100%, I'll also add that I am feeling more organized about my game play, it has more structure. Currently focusing more on crafting atm, because this will help my adventuring classes become more self sufficient. Right now I knock off adventuring leves and crafting leves one day, farm and gather the next. It's actually nice to have a direction.
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#67 Nov 10 2010 at 5:56 PM Rating: Decent
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Spyrit178 wrote:
SkyeAyatari wrote:
Skye's wall of text


I agree with this 100%, I'll also add that I am feeling more organized about my game play, it has more structure. Currently focusing more on crafting atm, because this will help my adventuring classes become more self sufficient. Right now I knock off adventuring leves and crafting leves one day, farm and gather the next. It's actually nice to have a direction.


Same here, It feels like I can appreciate what goes into the items better through knowing what goes into making them.

I actually chose to focus on crafting because my wife will join in March and I want to save the majority of my DoW/DoM experience to play with her.
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#68 Nov 11 2010 at 8:37 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:
In answer to this post: Even before this game was release, SE stated that this game was based around multi-class play. I can not speak for everyone's situation, but if you did not read or learn about this game beforehand, then chose to play and focus on one class and found it unsavory, then that is on you, not SE. They said ahead of time this is not a solo class friendly game. If you want to burn through one class, then by all means, blaze through that fatigue system. You are only being as punished as anyone else, but others have accepted the uniqueness of the game and adapted. If you can not find the enjoyment in their product, feel free to step away. This is not a "deal with it or get out", this is common sense, if you are not enjoying something, then stop putting yourself through it, no one is forcing your hand.


What a great post. I think people are finally starting to understand why there is so much complaining. Change is always met with frustration. Abrupt change even more so.
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Irishclass777 said: crafting is crafting no matter the game just because crafting is a job in ffxiv don't it much change much.


#69 Nov 11 2010 at 9:48 AM Rating: Decent
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Well, I tihnk alot of us sort of look at the class system wrong. Once realized "Pugilist" wasn't a "Monk" it made more sense. I started looking at Pugilist as the base class for me to build a monk, or a Thief, or a Ninja ect. I now really think they are onto something with the class system. It could turn out really cool.

Having said that, to make someone have to be a Fisherman, or Goldsmith to have fun seems kind of rediculous. Also, the boring part of the game for me isn't so much what I am currently leveling, it's how it's leveled.
The combat system is just too simple, infantile. I have been sort of spoiled by combat system where I might have to run around, jumping over obstacles, climb ladders and rock walls, jump off cliffs into the sea and battle under water. The risk of fighting near a ledge and maybe falling off a cliff and dying.

Standing in one spot spamming a few abilities, hearing the dreadfull dinging of the combat UI is where the boredom comes in.
#70 Nov 11 2010 at 11:05 AM Rating: Good
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tmproff, I will have to agree with your earlier statement about having a good linkshell makes it easier to craft. I find my friends and I are always trading mats that we acquire as we move through the night.It does make it easier. We all also focus on different crafts so we can help each other, but leveling our crafts at different levels it does sometimes make it hard to provide crafted mats for one of their synths. Especially with the unbalance of some of the recipes. Hopefully, as they start making some changes to the crafting system, this will help too.

I know the frustrations of many archers with the arrows. It takes way too long to make arrows and at least on my server, nobody is making them at a high enough rate in which the archers use them. Even the ones I know that are trying to craft their own are having to depend on too many other people for mats or spend hours in the market wards. Again, hopefully the changes coming will make this easier. I know I'll be more likely to craft parts that are used for other crafts when it's easier for people to find them and purchase them from me. I can't make them and hold onto them until my friends are ready to use them because of inventory space, and they can't hold them until they can use them for the same reason. Hopefully the increased inventory space and ability to get more retainers will alleviate that problem.

In XI I always had inventory issues as well. I solved it like many people by creating mules. I had my main character in addition to a mule in every city. This made it easier to both search for what I needed at the ah and sell things I was trying to dump in places where people were more likely to buy them. It'll be nice when I can replicate this with retainers, and I sort of included the cost of the retainers when I was budgeting what my monthly entertainment expenses were and how much this game would take out of it. I can't think of one MMO in recent memory that I played where I didn't need to set up extra characters just for inventory. It's nice that some games let you create these without charging extra, but whatever, I can eat the extra couple dollars a month to make things easier on me.

I do think more people will enjoy crafting or even give it a try when they streamline it a bit more like they are promising and making it easier to sell our wares without an AH. Though everytime I craft, I miss the ah more then any other time in the game. And I will continue to. But I can adjust, and I have so far. Won't keep me from wishing though. ;) Just so it's easier to find the mats I need and dump what I make.

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