Forum Settings
       
This thread is locked

New lodestone guide update? No thanks, make a real tutorial.Follow

#1 Nov 08 2010 at 9:36 AM Rating: Decent
**
602 posts
So the lodestone has updated once more with some information that I'm guessing didn't come in the manual (since I got CE I have no manual ... ).

I want to discuss how SE should hold its new player's hand.

I've had to explain the game's dynamics, menus, locations (adv guild, main storyline, market wards, camps) and so on over and over to many friends. It takes quite a while, and the more it happens the more frustrated I get.

The other day me and some friends had invited some guy who needed help finishing his ongoing level 20 leve. We kept touching the crystal but we couldn't join. So a friend said it was bugged, then I thought "no wait, throw leader on him" and then we could join.

Then we had the same issue again on a LS party and after informing everyone we then all knew. And the knowledge is spreading ...


But why does the game have to lean in on guys like me? I actually do read forums, the lodestone and such, but this completely alienates more casual players and those who haven't played a game like this or even found the sites with the information or lack the will to read a bunch of text.
A lot of these places have a "help" option in the menu for information, but who really reads that wall of text?
There are like one or two pretty incomplete tutorials when the game begins... that was a step in the right direction. But it really does end there, and it doesn't really force you to go through the tutorials.

Every offline final fantasy pretty much forces you to go through a menu and dynamics tutorial, why don't we have this on XIV where it seems the most needed?
Its really hard to get people into the game if they have so many issues learning.

It feels like tossing your kids into the sea: just a few have the will to paddle strong enough to survive.

Admin Edit: There's already a discussion on this subject here.

Edited, Nov 8th 2010 2:56pm by Osarion

Edited, Nov 8th 2010 2:56pm by Osarion Lock Thread: dupe thread
____________________________
FFXI: Dashiel. (Asura) Puppetmaster.
FFXIV: Majidah Sihaam. (Besaid)
Marauder, Weaver & Alchemist.

#2 Nov 08 2010 at 9:40 AM Rating: Decent
**
845 posts
Because the game was released to early.
____________________________

#3 Nov 08 2010 at 9:45 AM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
Avatar
*
165 posts
The first mission on every city its a mini tutorial, it teaches you about most basic things in the game. And every aetheryte has a mini-manual on how to play, classes, etc, etc.
____________________________
"Make something idiot proof... someone will create a better idiot"
#4 Nov 08 2010 at 9:54 AM Rating: Decent
Avatar
*
95 posts
I'm sorry, I just don't get it. I have no difficulty playing the game what-so-ever. The help on how to do what you need is there.

Is the game perfect? Of course not. But ever since I started I've not had to ask a million people to figure things out. I think it's fairly self explanatory. There are some nuances (Rank 20 miner leves in one town only?) That are obviously not right in front of your face. But that's what community sites are for. To get the community to interact. I play _VERY_ casually, and have no problems. In fact, I like that my hand isn't held for me the whole way.
#5 Nov 08 2010 at 9:54 AM Rating: Decent
**
602 posts
RdeLeo wrote:
The first mission on every city its a mini tutorial, it teaches you about most basic things in the game. And every aetheryte has a mini-manual on how to play, classes, etc, etc.


MajidahSihaam wrote:
A lot of these places have a "help" option in the menu for information, but who really reads that wall of text?
There are like one or two pretty incomplete tutorials when the game begins... that was a step in the right direction. But it really does end there, and it doesn't really force you to go through the tutorials.
____________________________
FFXI: Dashiel. (Asura) Puppetmaster.
FFXIV: Majidah Sihaam. (Besaid)
Marauder, Weaver & Alchemist.

#6 Nov 08 2010 at 10:03 AM Rating: Decent
**
602 posts
empathycontrols wrote:
I'm sorry, I just don't get it. I have no difficulty playing the game what-so-ever. The help on how to do what you need is there.

Is the game perfect? Of course not. But ever since I started I've not had to ask a million people to figure things out. I think it's fairly self explanatory. There are some nuances (Rank 20 miner leves in one town only?) That are obviously not right in front of your face. But that's what community sites are for. To get the community to interact. I play _VERY_ casually, and have no problems. In fact, I like that my hand isn't held for me the whole way.


This is a missconception.

Community sites SHOULDN'T be NEEDED to learn how to play a game.
That's like selling you a cellphone and telling you there are some great websites out there that teach you how to use it.
You are posting on zam, of course you didn't have problems learning the ropes. Casual players aren't defined by the ammount of time they play a game. A non gamer girlfriend is a good example of this.

She isn't going to start browsing forums and satelite guides just to learn how to equip skills or assign attribute points.
That's what a casual player is and I assure you they are having a chunkload of problems learning the ropes or just outright quit.

Edited, Nov 8th 2010 11:05am by MajidahSihaam
____________________________
FFXI: Dashiel. (Asura) Puppetmaster.
FFXIV: Majidah Sihaam. (Besaid)
Marauder, Weaver & Alchemist.

#7 Nov 08 2010 at 10:07 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
1,151 posts
You may want to post things like this in the feedback forum. My understanding is that is the forum someone from SE actually looks at. (Probably when Hailey's comet goes by.)

Your CE should have had a manual. Mine did though I didn't read it except to find the codes.
#8 Nov 08 2010 at 10:26 AM Rating: Decent
**
602 posts
nyopo wrote:
You may want to post things like this in the feedback forum. My understanding is that is the forum someone from SE actually looks at. (Probably when Hailey's comet goes by.)


lol I actually gave up on giving SE feedback directly, rather get the ball rolling on the community. I've been complaining about the UI's redundancy since alpha when we actually had a direct feedback line to SE and nothing changed.
Had also mentioned the wards should be divided in categories, and I doubt they implemented it because I had said anything...

that aside, I'm not sure if I'm confused about this, but if I'm not... then who the @#%^ is downrating my thread? I'd love to hear a justification. Its a well written and polite unbiased thread.

Edited, Nov 8th 2010 11:29am by MajidahSihaam
____________________________
FFXI: Dashiel. (Asura) Puppetmaster.
FFXIV: Majidah Sihaam. (Besaid)
Marauder, Weaver & Alchemist.

#9 Nov 08 2010 at 11:01 AM Rating: Decent
***
2,214 posts
MajidahSihaam wrote:
nyopo wrote:
You may want to post things like this in the feedback forum. My understanding is that is the forum someone from SE actually looks at. (Probably when Hailey's comet goes by.)


lol I actually gave up on giving SE feedback directly, rather get the ball rolling on the community. I've been complaining about the UI's redundancy since alpha when we actually had a direct feedback line to SE and nothing changed.
Had also mentioned the wards should be divided in categories, and I doubt they implemented it because I had said anything...

that aside, I'm not sure if I'm confused about this, but if I'm not... then who the @#%^ is downrating my thread? I'd love to hear a justification. Its a well written and polite unbiased thread.

Edited, Nov 8th 2010 11:29am by MajidahSihaam


SE reduced the price of packaging by includig the tutorial information in the game, rather than giving the user's a useless manual. Manuals have been considered outdated, and a finacial burden for many years now. In the case of the game, the tutorial information on game play is optional. If it were manditory, people who didn't need it, would be complaining about how they are forced to go through mundane tasks that they can figure out themselves. If they included a manual, people would have complained about the 5-10 dollars they would have increased the price to cover the costs of production (if not more).

As for reading a wall of text, that is what manuals are. Walls of text. They occasionally have pretty pictures in to keep you interested, or give a point of reference in the game, but all and all, it's a wall of text the same as what you see in the game.

While you may not want to read in the game, what is the actual difference between having a printed manual, and having in-game tutorials that give the same information a manual would provide.

As for the information on Lodestone, this is information that people would normally have to guess themselves. The information that they are providing there is very helpful to some (I haven't found an article that I didn't read and learn something), but none of the information is required for game play. Which means you wouldn't find it in a tutorial.

For example, I enjoy SOCOM. Did any of the games have full strategy maps. No. Did any of the games outline attack strats, or pinch points, or proper sniping points, or how lighting would makes positioning or gun fire. Again, no. These are details that players pick up on, and use to form an advantage over other players. And while Final Fantasy is more of a community game, it is not lacking in information on actual game play and use. It is lacking in many other areas that are frustrating, but documentation is definitely not one of them.

There are some details that are gotchas. Such as the fact that you don't gain your first class specific ability until you complete the first quest. But the purpose of this is to get you to complete the first quest. The information for completing it is there, and it can be done without leveling, and without assistance. Which is a push towards people actually paying attention to what they are doing.

Early in the game, there is a lot of need to reading what NPC's say since there are not online tutorials for quests and missions. There are not FAQs for skill chains or full beastiaries. These are things that will develop in time, and no game has ever provided that kind of information out of the box that people didn't feel that they were being spoon fed.

As for the UI's redundancy, I don't think you realize the complexity of redesigning a User Interface. SE has all but said that they are working on the redesign of the UI, and understand everyone's frustration. The User Interface is one of the base elements in a game. Redesigning it can be a very complex and time consuming process. I believe they stated that they are planing on releasing the update for it in November. So, while you have been complaining about it, and about them not listening, it sounds like you are guilty of the same thing.

They understand that they messed up. They are trying to make it right. And you have to choose. Do you want to keep beating a dead horse, or try and be constructive about it. While my computer seems to be able to handle most of the flaws in the game quite well, I can understand the issues that many people are having. The UI speed ups have been quite noticable, and the interaction in the game is no longer tedious on most actions. The updates to crafting will be nice (especially when used with hasty hands for simple crafts), and having something to do in the game other than fight, fight, fight, craft, craft, craft would be very nice. As well, to be able to find people who want to party will be incredibly nice. Right now, the one item that I do agree is not documented enough is the party play. It appears that most people are not aware that there is a party search feature. It is player-centric, not party-centric, making it something that parties need to do in order to creating dynamic parties on the fly.

The interesting part about it is that it is the one feature they could never get working in 11. They have it working beautifully in 14, but at the expense of the basic party features (like search and add... The current process in search and join... However, if a party hasn't flagged for new members, players don't know who are where to join).
#10 Nov 08 2010 at 1:21 PM Rating: Decent
*
164 posts
First off, I'd like to thank Google for being such a wonderful search engine. Without it, I'd be lost (and have no gil) in this game.

What exactly is working perfectly? The party search system? I don't know about your server, but on mine, 80% of the partiy serach messages I see are in Japanese. Maybe if they added auto-translate to the party search system, it would be better. Then there's the issue of having to recruit every 60 minutes, and having to cancel, and re-recruit if you want to change something. There are other minor issues with the system, but my point is, it is far from perfect.

This thread is locked
This Forum is Read Only!
Recent Visitors: 25 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (25)