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#1 Nov 08 2010 at 10:38 AM Rating: Decent
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Well, since mostly all threads are about how this game sucks for everyone else but me (well, there are more people...), I'm gonna continue the say something nice thread, with this, let's defend the game (since this is a fan site).

I commented this in other thread, but here it is to start:

People keeps comparing FFXIV to FFXI. Saying it has lots of content, things, more fun, quests, etc. Guess what? Took it 8 years to be like that. Seems they want 8 years of upgrades, updates and 4 expansions, all in one single game and from the start. Why? You will "finish" the game, have nothing else to do, and then start ******** about that it has "no new content or endgame after the endgame" again.

Seems everyone expectation was that this game was gonna be FFXI-2, same game with same content through the years, just prettier graphics. And not even that, with parts from all other games around. I think it was too much to put under the shoulders of one single game, so can't deal with the fact that this is a complete different and new game. Not finished for some, great for others.

But even with that level of "common disappointment", the game it's great, at least for me. Can't wait for the fixes and additions this month. Maybe it's a personal taste acquired, but I have too much fun playing it with my friends and new friends, and my family.

Edited, Nov 9th 2010 5:53pm by Fleven Lock Thread: flame


Edited, Nov 9th 2010 7:29pm by Osarion
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#2 Nov 08 2010 at 10:42 AM Rating: Good
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So the trend is to make threads complaining about the complaining threads? You would pay the monthly fee to play the game the way it is?
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#3 Nov 08 2010 at 10:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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I wish I shared your enthusiasm - and I really do mean that. My only driving force for logging into the game was because of my friends and LSMates (most of whom I lured into FFXIV by linking pictures from SE's showcases) but even that's gone now as all but one or two have either temporarily quit the game or permanently moved on. And honestly, the prospect of logging in to grind even more Efts really doesn't appeal to me at all at the moment.

Edited, Nov 8th 2010 11:47am by Numnaydar
#4 Nov 08 2010 at 10:48 AM Rating: Good
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I like to be able to solo and craft as I please without having to wait for a party catch to get anything done. FFXI really made it important to party and alliance in it's Abyssea expansions, and the game feels like a trainwreck waiting to happen.

Job roles are reversed. A full time RDM that could nuke, cure, refresh, haste, etc in a party and keep it going for HOURS at a time is reduced to a puller. A WHM with its powerful, yet useless, abilities and spells are reduced to cure only when asked. Perhaps they haste or protect, but good to have for Raise III. (Even though anyone in abyssea would get that exp back in literally no time.)

Young and mid-levels are left to fend for themselves because nobody wants to party in those level areas any longer. Missions? You better have a good group of friends to help you through, or spend even more time shouting in whitegate or jeuno than ever before.

High levels PREACH allakhazam, killing ifrit, ffxipedia, etc instead of taking time and actually helping people. I get bashed a lot for this, but these are only SOME reasons I quit FFXI.. and now casually play FFXIV. I don't feel like I'm on a schedule. I get online when I feel like it and do what I feel like doing. But FFXIV is far from complete. I agree it has it's issues, but I am HAPPY.

Mo
#5 Nov 08 2010 at 10:48 AM Rating: Good
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Seventhblood wrote:
So the trend is to make threads complaining about the complaining threads? You would pay the monthly fee to play the game the way it is?

I don't see him complaining about anything.
And yes, i will be paying the monthly fee for this. I play with my brother, his friend and his son. His brother in law and cousin will be playing with us soon. This game is fun when you play with friends.
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#6 Nov 08 2010 at 10:48 AM Rating: Default
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Seventhblood wrote:
So the trend is to make threads complaining about the complaining threads? You would pay the monthly fee to play the game the way it is?

Agree with the 1st part.

2nd Part, I will pay its not a lot I mean cmon.. thats like 1.3Hrs of work time for me (a month).

But I do agree, I just want normal posts and interest reads not Slating or defending the game thats boring and past it :)
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#7 Nov 08 2010 at 10:49 AM Rating: Good
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Yup, It was my plan before the second free month announced, I like it so much, that I'm gonna pay for it.
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#8 Nov 08 2010 at 10:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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RdeLeo wrote:
People keeps comparing FFXIV to FFXI. Saying it has lots of content, things, more fun, quests, etc. Guess what? Took it 8 years to be like that. Seems they want 8 years of upgrades, updates and 4 expansions, all in one single game and from the start. Why? You will "finish" the game, have nothing else to do, and then start ******** about that it has "no new content or endgame after the endgame" again.
Took way less than 8 years. Not even remotely close. SE was releasing large monthly patches for FFXI.
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#9 Nov 08 2010 at 10:52 AM Rating: Good
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I like being able to login, go mining, make a few crafts and do my leves without having to worry about being the best. I have kids and a wife now, and my playtime is limited. I feel like I can play at a leisurely pace and still have fun.

I can chat with people and just enjoy playing a video game, instead of feeling like I'm working.

I know it's not perfect, there are a lot of flaws. But honestly, it's still fun enough for me to play, so I'll keep playing.
#10 Nov 08 2010 at 10:57 AM Rating: Decent
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I believe that the primary issue is that people don't think out their responses to stimuli. People say for example, FFXI started out bare bones, which it did, and their next logical step is "Well, they should have learned from their mistakes." The logical fallacy there is that people just jumped from the fact that it was bare bones to the fact that bare bones is BAD. When in fact they have not set up any arguments to that effect.

Furthermore, I would portend that they (SE) are using a model that they saw no problems with, perhaps because they did not do a global release, instead they did a purely domestic release. And as such, did not get the full gamut of feedback, or perhaps as has been stated, the MMO market was in its infancy and was willing to accept anything and be patient...

That brings us to our current situation, people are upset that the game is bare bones in its current state. I submit to you that there are in fact things to be done in the game, outside of leves, crafting, exploration, bartering, making gil, exploration of the classes, mixing of class abilities, exploration of party dynamics, and gathering. There is a social dynamic to be found as well.

Tolkien said it best, "There is nothing like looking, if you want to find something. You certainly usually find something, if you look, but it is not always quite the something you were after.”

If you want to have a positive gaming experience, You Will have a positive gaming experience. It's not about sitting in a corner, with your fingers in your ears, rocking back and forth, screaming la-la-la-la-la, when someone comes up with major faults in the game's design. It's about openly admitting there are faults, maybe they are blaring to some people...they aren't to everyone.

If you want to find something you like. You will find something you like.



Edited, Nov 8th 2010 11:58am by Zanist

Edited, Nov 8th 2010 12:01pm by Zanist
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#11 Nov 08 2010 at 10:58 AM Rating: Good
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I'll be playing, for now.

I won't be complaining...unless they don't fix some the non-content issues fairly soon, according to their time line they gave us. Well...I probably won't complain too much if they fail to live up to their promises...I'll probably just move on to something else. Life's too short to sit around boards and complain.

I can live with the lack of content issues since that's fairly normal for a brand new release.

But I can't see myself really defending this game right now. Everyone had a chance to play beta...so most knew what they were getting into. There's not much to defend. It is what it is.
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#12 Nov 08 2010 at 3:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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The thing about xiv not having content compared xi is that regardless SE had 8 years to learn stuff from xi - what works, what doesn't, what's needed etc. And xiv really seriuosly seems like it is their FIRST mmorpg. Yes, its new and lack of content is expected, but lack of basic features is ridiculous (inventory sort to name one).


Now, to say something nice. I do really like that I am a blue female elf. I think being able to be a different skin color that's not normal was cool and like the way my girl looks.
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#13 Nov 08 2010 at 3:51 PM Rating: Default
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RdeLeo wrote:
Well, since mostly all threads are about how this game sucks for everyone else but me (well, there are more people...), I'm gonna continue the say something nice thread, with this, let's defend the game (since this is a fan site).

I commented this in other thread, but here it is to start:

People keeps comparing FFXIV to FFXI. Saying it has lots of content, things, more fun, quests, etc. Guess what? Took it 8 years to be like that. Seems they want 8 years of upgrades, updates and 4 expansions, all in one single game and from the start. Why? You will "finish" the game, have nothing else to do, and then start ******** about that it has "no new content or endgame after the endgame" again.

Seems everyone expectation was that this game was gonna be FFXI-2, same game with same content through the years, just prettier graphics. And not even that, with parts from all other games around. I think it was too much to put under the shoulders of one single game, so can't deal with the fact that this is a complete different and new game. Not finished for some, great for others.

But even with that level of "common disappointment", the game it's great, at least for me. Can't wait for the fixes and additions this month. Maybe it's a personal taste acquired, but I have too much fun playing it with my friends and new friends, and my family.


Yeah very true.

Like all things in life, people can't accept change too easily, especially when they have spent a large portion of time elsewhere.

I myself know how it feels, trying to rip yourself away from something you have spent years playing, building and striving towards perfection on a game. 7 years I played EQ1. I had an almost impossible time trying to pull myself away from it, not the game itself, but the mentaility of gameplay I had come a custom too.

You will find the same here, for alot of people they are fresh out the box of another game, most spendiing many years playing, change isn't easy when your acustom to a certain style.

However there is a huge difference between change and theme. People need to accept that different companies generate different themes and stop trying to generalize all MMO's into the same theme.

The only real thing that defines MMO's today is the theme in which they are set.
#14 Nov 08 2010 at 3:53 PM Rating: Good
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RdeLeo wrote:
People keeps comparing FFXIV to FFXI. Saying it has lots of content, things, more fun, quests, etc. Guess what? Took it 8 years to be like that.
As someone who picked up FFXI on the North American release day, I disagree with that statement. At the NA launch FFXI was in a more polished and more complete state than FFXIV.

I can appreciate what you're trying to do with this thread, to balance things out against the negativity, but it is not our job as the playerbase to defend the game for SE. The game will be defended by SE's own actions as they fix the current problems. Our job as the playerbase is to merely play the game.

Edit - I haven't read anyone arguing that FFXIV should be in the same state as FFXI is now after 8 years. The comparisons I've read have been about FFXIV release vs FFXI release. Obviously if you compare a game that's been out for 8 years its going to be in better shape than one that has been out for 2 months.

Edited, Nov 8th 2010 5:47pm by theweenie
#15 Nov 08 2010 at 3:58 PM Rating: Decent
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yes ffxi was more polished when it was released in NA. but if you go back and see what they changed from JP release you'll notice a lot of the similarities between what we're going through now. so stop comparing it to ffxi NA release ffs
#16 Nov 08 2010 at 4:05 PM Rating: Default
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I´m not talking about launch days, content at launch or w/e of those topics. My point is to the game at current date and the comparison from a game that is new with a game that has been out for 8 years, which has 4 expansions and tons of updates. And that how people was expecting this one to be FFXI-2, which is not. It's a whole new game, yes, with similar things, but it's not FFXI.
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#17 Nov 08 2010 at 4:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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Its sad that a post like this needs to be made. You should never need to defend a game from the amount of complaints that this game is geting. The fact that people feel the need to do so just proves what kind of shape this game is in.

I tryed everything to make this game fun. in the end I got to the point that I was just lowering my head and baring threw it. It got to the point where loging in felt more like a job than having fun. I started spending too much time on the forums bad mouthing the game then loging back on only to find nothing I wanted to do.

Now I am playing EQ classic on the project 1999 server and having fun doing it. I know other people are having fun playing ffxiv as it is but I did not. It will take one **** of a patch to make me trust SE again. And evon then I don't know if I want to hand them any more of my $$.
#18 Nov 08 2010 at 4:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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Zanist wrote:
I believe that the primary issue is that people don't think out their responses to stimuli. People say for example, FFXI started out bare bones, which it did, and their next logical step is "Well, they should have learned from their mistakes." The logical fallacy there is that people just jumped from the fact that it was bare bones to the fact that bare bones is BAD. When in fact they have not set up any arguments to that effect.


Straw man? I don't know any one who says this? Or at least I don't see anyone making this logical leap. SE should have learned from their mistakes, the UI redundancy is one glaring example. SE should also should have learned from experience. SE should have also learned from other MMO's mistakes and successes as well. But what is mind-boggling is that they DID in some respects and totally DIDN'T in others... Plus bare bones can be very bad or at least not as good. I got a pen and some paper, want to play Final Fantasy?

Quote:
Furthermore, I would portend that they (SE) are using a model that they saw no problems with, perhaps because they did not do a global release, instead they did a purely domestic release. And as such, did not get the full gamut of feedback, or perhaps as has been stated, the MMO market was in its infancy and was willing to accept anything and be patient...


That brings us to our current situation, people are upset that the game is bare bones in its current state. I submit to you that there are in fact things to be done in the game, outside of leves, crafting, exploration, bartering, making gil, exploration of the classes, mixing of class abilities, exploration of party dynamics, and gathering. There is a social dynamic to be found as well.


I'm more upset not with it's connection or lack thereof to FFXI but the fact that FFXIV was in Beta for a while. And SE did their own Q and A's with a lot of players prior to release whose complaints they either ignored or ignored due to time constraints/early release.

As far as your list of things to do: Crafting, not my thing. Exploration, done it. Bartering, not my thing. Making gil, have 1 million (nothing to buy). Leveled most classes, nothing really interesting. Partying, I'm sure is fun, but no one uses the party system. Socially: There were at last count 800 people on my server and no one really talked in the general chat, except well, to barter.

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Tolkien said it best, "There is nothing like looking, if you want to find something. You certainly usually find something, if you look, but it is not always quite the something you were after.”

If you want to have a positive gaming experience, You Will have a positive gaming experience. It's not about sitting in a corner, with your fingers in your ears, rocking back and forth, screaming la-la-la-la-la, when someone comes up with major faults in the game's design. It's about openly admitting there are faults, maybe they are blaring to some people...they aren't to everyone.

If you want to find something you like. You will find something you like.


I can trick myself into liking anything it doesn't mean that it is an authentically fun experience. Or maybe, given the benefit of the doubt, the game isn't that bad but could be so much better and is a let down because the game isn't up to par with current MMO's in most respects.





#19 Nov 08 2010 at 5:19 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
As someone who picked up FFXI on the North American release day, I disagree with that statement. At the NA launch FFXI was in a more polished and more complete state than FFXIV.


NA launch of XI happened 16 months after the Japanese launch.
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#20 Nov 08 2010 at 5:24 PM Rating: Good
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I swear, some ppl would even pay the monthly fee just to go on forums and keep white-knighting this game even tho it's loosing thousands of active players every week.
#21 Nov 08 2010 at 5:25 PM Rating: Default
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PinkMermaid wrote:
The thing about xiv not having content compared xi is that regardless SE had 8 years to learn stuff from xi - what works, what doesn't, what's needed etc. And xiv really seriuosly seems like it is their FIRST mmorpg. Yes, its new and lack of content is expected, but lack of basic features is ridiculous (inventory sort to name one).

Now, to say something nice. I do really like that I am a blue female elf. I think being able to be a different skin color that's not normal was cool and like the way my girl looks.


Yes, FFXI did have 8 years to learn what works with what for players and about interface, UI, bugs etc....This is a brand new game, graphics, play style, content etc. Granted many bugs exist, the game could have benefitted from being held back and worked on, but contect wise and game play wise, the staff is doing now what they did with XI, learning all over again. It's a different in-game culture and play style. The people they are targeting for the play of their game is just not hard-core gamers, but everyone from casual on up. So this brand new thing IS going to be a learning expirience all over again.


Quote:
Like all things in life, people can't accept change too easily, especially when they have spent a large portion of time elsewhere.


No people can't accept change. People have a hard time accepting change, especially when they have dedicated a lot of time to things being a certian way, kind of like the eldery...God forbid things do this instead of that >.>;

OkonkwoTheZulu wrote:
yes ffxi was more polished when it was released in NA. but if you go back and see what they changed from JP release you'll notice a lot of the similarities between what we're going through now. so stop comparing it to ffxi NA release ffs


From what I have heard I agree. And that goes back to what I said with the first quote, it's a big learning exp. from the start for the staff all over again for the same reasons. The games are different, not the same.

Sethern79 wrote:
Its sad that a post like this needs to be made. You should never need to defend a game from the amount of complaints that this game is geting. The fact that people feel the need to do so just proves what kind of shape this game is in.

I tryed everything to make this game fun. in the end I got to the point that I was just lowering my head and baring threw it. It got to the point where loging in felt more like a job than having fun. I started spending too much time on the forums bad mouthing the game then loging back on only to find nothing I wanted to do.

Now I am playing EQ classic on the project 1999 server and having fun doing it. I know other people are having fun playing ffxiv as it is but I did not. It will take one **** of a patch to make me trust SE again. And evon then I don't know if I want to hand them any more of my $$.


Maybe then you are playing this game too much, and the same for others who seem to flame it. Maybe instead of playing it for hours on end, go and do something else? Maybe then you'll appreciate what you are playing? Or go play something that is more suited to your play style. But to the poster, myself and obviously others, this game seems to be perfect for us. I have a husband and child, and little time, the most I can play is just a few hours 2-3 days a week. So I am not going through this game and completely depleting it of what little contect is there. I am taking my time, crafting, leveling through leves, and slowly making my way up to the story line. So maybe by the time they have more content, my character will be done and ready. That's just me though.
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#22 Nov 08 2010 at 5:38 PM Rating: Good
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LillithaFenimore wrote:
Sethern79 wrote:
Its sad that a post like this needs to be made. You should never need to defend a game from the amount of complaints that this game is geting. The fact that people feel the need to do so just proves what kind of shape this game is in.

I tryed everything to make this game fun. in the end I got to the point that I was just lowering my head and baring threw it. It got to the point where loging in felt more like a job than having fun. I started spending too much time on the forums bad mouthing the game then loging back on only to find nothing I wanted to do.

Now I am playing EQ classic on the project 1999 server and having fun doing it. I know other people are having fun playing ffxiv as it is but I did not. It will take one **** of a patch to make me trust SE again. And evon then I don't know if I want to hand them any more of my $$.


Maybe then you are playing this game too much, and the same for others who seem to flame it. Maybe instead of playing it for hours on end, go and do something else? Maybe then you'll appreciate what you are playing? Or go play something that is more suited to your play style. But to the poster, myself and obviously others, this game seems to be perfect for us. I have a husband and child, and little time, the most I can play is just a few hours 2-3 days a week. So I am not going through this game and completely depleting it of what little contect is there. I am taking my time, crafting, leveling through leves, and slowly making my way up to the story line. So maybe by the time they have more content, my character will be done and ready. That's just me though.


Umm Sorry but If i pay to play a game I should get as much **** time out of it as I want. I spent hours on end playing EQ/WoW/FFXI and they never got boring. The argument that you spend to much time on a game Is a BS excuse for a crapy game. If you want me to pay you every month to play your game you better **** well make sure that I can spend all the **** time i want in your game and have fun!


#23 Nov 08 2010 at 5:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Sethern79 wrote:
LillithaFenimore wrote:
Sethern79 wrote:
Its sad that a post like this needs to be made. You should never need to defend a game from the amount of complaints that this game is geting. The fact that people feel the need to do so just proves what kind of shape this game is in.

I tryed everything to make this game fun. in the end I got to the point that I was just lowering my head and baring threw it. It got to the point where loging in felt more like a job than having fun. I started spending too much time on the forums bad mouthing the game then loging back on only to find nothing I wanted to do.

Now I am playing EQ classic on the project 1999 server and having fun doing it. I know other people are having fun playing ffxiv as it is but I did not. It will take one **** of a patch to make me trust SE again. And evon then I don't know if I want to hand them any more of my $$.


Maybe then you are playing this game too much, and the same for others who seem to flame it. Maybe instead of playing it for hours on end, go and do something else? Maybe then you'll appreciate what you are playing? Or go play something that is more suited to your play style. But to the poster, myself and obviously others, this game seems to be perfect for us. I have a husband and child, and little time, the most I can play is just a few hours 2-3 days a week. So I am not going through this game and completely depleting it of what little contect is there. I am taking my time, crafting, leveling through leves, and slowly making my way up to the story line. So maybe by the time they have more content, my character will be done and ready. That's just me though.


Umm Sorry but If i pay to play a game I should get as much **** time out of it as I want. I spent hours on end playing EQ/WoW/FFXI and they never got boring. The argument that you spend to much time on a game Is a BS excuse for a crapy game. If you want me to pay you every month to play your game you better **** well make sure that I can spend all the **** time i want in your game and have fun!




Look there was no need to cuss. I wasn't trying to belittle you in anyway shape or form. I do agree, that people who did purchase this game, should not have to put up with the bugs, shouldn't. We all payed for it. However, if it's that bad to you, and you are that upset about it, maybe you shouldn't play it so much or just quit all together. I'm not saying that to be mean, it's just that you and many others have discussed your dislike for what has gone on, and you have every right to, hands down.

But instead of turning a portion of this site dedicated to this game, to people who enjoy it, and who come to this section of the forum, into a flame, just move on. Write a letter of complaint (yes I am old fashioned), stating your discontent, how could a reputable company do this...blah blah blah. And then take a break, play less of it, w/e. That's all. Not trying to be mean, just being honest, without the profanity and rudeness.
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#24 Nov 08 2010 at 5:54 PM Rating: Default
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This is the best game ever because i dont see RMT messages scrolling the entire time i am in a city....
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#25 Nov 08 2010 at 6:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Gotta love how the thread was posted to defend the game, yet it turned into another bash thread.

Anyway, I feel no need to defend my opinion. I like playing the game. Others don't. I wish others would stop saying it is going to fail, because the idea of a game that I enjoy dying is rather unhappy. But those that don't like the game I'm not going to try to convince to play the game.

Here's the low-down: SE screwed up. They tried to do something new, it so far hasn't worked. They're attempting first to fix what is in it. If it still doesn't work they'll go back to a default. It's no fun doing the same thing all the time.

SE's management crew screwed up. Even ignoring the things in the game that would have been in release if they released later, there is still much of the game missing.

When it comes to the release, yes, they should have known better. This could arguably cover the lack of quests and such, since it appears more quest-content will be given in the updates. This was probably part of the planned chronology of development, but they had to distribute what they had when the execs said to.

When it comes to things that are just new and different, this is just them trying something new. In the sciences, challenging assumptions and trying new things is a very positive trait. Could be applied to game design. Lots of people don't like the new things in the current state. Maybe they'll win more people in the next couple months. We'll see.

In the end those who like to play will play, those who don't won't. I will be playing.

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#26 Nov 08 2010 at 6:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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As has been previously pointed out, when the game came out in Japan, there were almost no alternatives to FFXI in Japan (and none that I know of that were open world MMO as opposed to sandbox MMO). So the game didn't have much to prove upon release. And even in the U.S., Everquest was the big contender. But even Everquest wasn't all that special next to FFXI.

MMOs are ephemeral experiences. You can't judge them objectively... you have to compare them to the competition. At the time that FFXI came out, it competed well, regardless of being barebones. But now, FFXIV has to compete with games that have come out in the past decade, INCLUDING FFXI.

You probably wouldn't be satisfied with the lifestyle that your grandparents had growing up (where video games wouldn't even be an option), even though it was good enough for them... not while knowing that you have the option to have your current lifestyle. This is like that.
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#27 Nov 08 2010 at 7:12 PM Rating: Good
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MisterBigglesworth wrote:
NA launch of XI happened 16 months after the Japanese launch.
No. The NA PC release, which is what I played, happened less than a year after the Japanese launch.

The NA PS2 release is what happened 16 months after the Japanese launch.

So I guess if people want to compare the NA FFXI release to FFXIV, those comparisons will have to wait until the PS3 release, since that would be a more accurate timeline.
#28 Nov 08 2010 at 9:54 PM Rating: Decent
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theweenie wrote:
MisterBigglesworth wrote:
NA launch of XI happened 16 months after the Japanese launch.
No. The NA PC release, which is what I played, happened less than a year after the Japanese launch.

The NA PS2 release is what happened 16 months after the Japanese launch.

So I guess if people want to compare the NA FFXI release to FFXIV, those comparisons will have to wait until the PS3 release, since that would be a more accurate timeline.


I was unaware that from May of one year to October of the following year was less than 16 months. 1 year 5 months and 12 days so it was actually longer than I originally stated.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy_XI

Edited, Nov 8th 2010 10:58pm by MisterBigglesworth

Edited, Nov 8th 2010 11:33pm by MisterBigglesworth
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#29 Nov 08 2010 at 10:57 PM Rating: Good
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There are good reasons not to. I will make this short as can be.

I like this game, very recently picked it up even after reading all the negative reviews. I plan to play this game NEXT YEAR. Even buying a new monitor to enjoy the sweet graphics, in short I like this game.

However, as a FFXI veteran, I played from the start and well remember all the problems there, plus I remember how long it took SE to ever really get back to us. Now I see FFIV and I see SE talking about major changes in a month. Where am I going with this you ask? simple all the outcry, all the ******** we did on FFXI was for naught. Now all the outcry has hit them where they understand "players dont like our game...we make no money?" yes! geniuses you need to provide the game you promised us than you make money.

I like the game, I like exploring without a shiny ! on top of npc, I like the graphics and I don't mind killing a bazzillion fungus, its ok. But...

Blindly defending the game company and saying "I'll stick by SE no matter what" sends the wrong message to them. The message is I'll stand by you SE if you stand by me. You are teasing us with what could be a great game and have made a clunker out of it, and reading the QA from ask the devs tells me those questions are the ones asked by your own deluded people, how about you ask the players...let's talk about lack of basic functionality.

PS I have no problems with lack of ah, nor majority of easy to fix, problems, things like unable to invite friend from other zone is simply inexcusable from them to us as customers in this day and age.

I'll renew my subscription when they get their act together hopefully early January, in the mean time I plan to add my voice to valid concerns - which go beyond fixes or a patch. As a loyal costumer I will not join the linching mob, but I want this game to succeed and so far the only reaction I've seen out of SE for any title has been now, when sales plummetted, and the pockets hurt. So now we have their attention let's make good use of it, not say "Good job I'm sure you'll fix it....eventually...when you guys get to it...no rush...we love you..it's ok...take your time". It's not ok, hurry it up please, address our valid concerns (yes I've read the patch notes but experience with SE tells me upcoming patch info does not equate what actually happens;

:) it's cold and I need a good game to play, get it together over there guys.
#30 Nov 08 2010 at 11:06 PM Rating: Good
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MisterBigglesworth wrote:
I was unaware that from May of one year to October of the following year was less than 16 months. 1 year 5 months and 12 days so it was actually longer than I originally stated.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy_XI
Aha, you are correct. I was unaware Japan did not have a simultaneous PC/PS2 release. That's a really long time for localization.

I wish I could read Japanese to see what kind of issues the original Japanese launch had. There's got to be some old Japanese reviews floating around somewhere.
#31mitmystria, Posted: Nov 08 2010 at 11:20 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) people are spoiled with games already fix most the mmo's the come here been out atleast 1-2 years then they compare them to ffxiv. ffxi went down hill anyways after they noobed it up in toau, now it looks likr there just ending it with the new addons super exp. im still playing ffxiv and im even paying.
#32 Nov 08 2010 at 11:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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Regardless, the important thing is that it makes no sense to compare FFXI's release to FFXIV's release-- that's not the basis people use for deciding to play a game. They compare the current product to existing products. FFXI was successful at its release because it was a good MMO compared to other available MMOs.
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Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#33 Nov 09 2010 at 12:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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theweenie wrote:
I wish I could read Japanese to see what kind of issues the original Japanese launch had. There's got to be some old Japanese reviews floating around somewhere.
Less than a month after release, the AH was released. Here's the rest of the major changes.
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#34 Nov 09 2010 at 12:26 AM Rating: Decent
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here something no one seems to remember. FFXIV's alpha/beta testing was problematic where it you be offline weeks at a time due to server stability issues, bugs, lag, etc etc. Is SE ignoring yall not really. But ffxiv was having issues since alpha. And sorry but do research gaming :) programs are not easy. fixing them is not easy bugs, weather, other enviromental issues do happen. Then pc viruses, hacking, etc etc. happens. I do suggest think of these thing before insulting a company who's game you are playing. Stuff happened well before the game launched that was out of SE control. Maybe that lead to the how bad he game is because they couldn't fix stuff. And holding back a launch would cot them more money. Games cost more money to male them longer it takes more money you spend. They will fix issues. They will make this game better. Also fun is what you make of it. Stuff isn't automaticaly fun, you find the fun in it. Liketo some the game risk is a chore, to other they have fun.
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#35 Nov 09 2010 at 12:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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RdeLeo wrote:
People keeps comparing FFXIV to FFXI. Saying it has lots of content, things, more fun, quests, etc. Guess what? Took it 8 years to be like that. Seems they want 8 years of upgrades, updates and 4 expansions, all in one single game and from the start. Why? You will "finish" the game, have nothing else to do, and then start ******** about that it has "no new content or endgame after the endgame" again.


I don't think so. I think people wanted the 8 years of experience to build a solid foundation for FFXIV, which they haven't done. No one expected endgame content, but when you don't have any begingame content you don't have much of a game at all.

RdeLeo wrote:
But even with that level of "common disappointment", the game it's great, at least for me. Can't wait for the fixes and additions this month. Maybe it's a personal taste acquired, but I have too much fun playing it with my friends and new friends, and my family.


I don't think anyone would disagree with your last point. Most of us enjoy spending time with family and friends and meeting new ones. To be honest though, there are a thousand things you can do outside of FFXIV with your fam and friends. Sadly, each one of these are probably a thousand times more fun and rewarding.




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#36 Nov 09 2010 at 12:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Most of us enjoy spending time with family and friends and meeting new ones. To be honest though, there are a thousand things you can do outside of FFXIV with your fam and friends. Sadly, each one of these are probably a thousand times more fun and rewarding.


Ouch, and so true. I would probably enjoy XIV much more automatically if my friends and family were playing it. Unfortunately, those people fall in to two groups:
1. Those who had planned to play on the PS3 at the anticipated simultaneous release, but couldn't.
2. Those who played it on the PC and disliked it so much that not even friends and family could redeem it.

And the people in the first group probably won't play at the PS3 release now either, because 1) they've heard how bad it is, and 2) the people they were going to play with have already given up on the game.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#37 Nov 09 2010 at 1:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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bsphil wrote:
theweenie wrote:
I wish I could read Japanese to see what kind of issues the original Japanese launch had. There's got to be some old Japanese reviews floating around somewhere.
Less than a month after release, the AH was released. Here's the rest of the major changes.



Perfect. At release FFXI had Advance Jobs, Chocobo, Airships, NMs and an AH within a month in, what's not to love.

What does FFXIV get? Some renamed wards and a bunch of Ask the Devs posts.

To the OP: Those are the types of things most of us are complaining about in addition to the content are the mechanics; the clunky UI and keyboard controls/mouse controls are horrendous. If you can deal with these things, like I tried to by, for example, buying a controller then that's great, more power to you and I hope you're enjoying the game. But we're definitely not complaining that the game doesn't have 8 years of content and streamlining.

#38 Nov 09 2010 at 7:20 AM Rating: Excellent
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I don't understand why people keep saying "Oh, 8 years of experience for a solid foundation!" as if the game was slapped together a month before alpha.

The foundations of the game would have been the first things written. The project began in 2005, so maybe 3-4 years of experience. FFXI wasn't perfect by then.

And if you're referring to the now age-old argument of "Why no AH??", well, sometimes people just want to try doing something new. There's no job satisfaction if you're remaking the same game every time. And you don't want to lose people on your dev team (perhaps due to lack of job satisfaction?) at this point because they know the code the best. If you have to get someone new then they have to first read and understand the entire suite of scripts before they can start work.
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#39 Nov 09 2010 at 8:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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Kierk wrote:
bsphil wrote:
theweenie wrote:
I wish I could read Japanese to see what kind of issues the original Japanese launch had. There's got to be some old Japanese reviews floating around somewhere.
Less than a month after release, the AH was released. Here's the rest of the major changes.



Perfect. At release FFXI had Advance Jobs, Chocobo, Airships, NMs and an AH within a month in, what's not to love.

What does FFXIV get? Some renamed wards and a bunch of Ask the Devs posts.
Keep the update schedule in mind too. In the first 9 months of the game, there are 8 patches. After release, they're pumping out updates with lots of changes in them once a month. SE has already stated that they're looking to maintain a 3 month version update period. It took FFXI years to do this, specifically, we were well into CoP before version updates started coming out as slow as once every 3 months.


Gadhelyn wrote:
I don't understand why people keep saying "Oh, 8 years of experience for a solid foundation!" as if the game was slapped together a month before alpha.

The foundations of the game would have been the first things written. The project began in 2005, so maybe 3-4 years of experience. FFXI wasn't perfect by then.

And if you're referring to the now age-old argument of "Why no AH??", well, sometimes people just want to try doing something new. There's no job satisfaction if you're remaking the same game every time. And you don't want to lose people on your dev team (perhaps due to lack of job satisfaction?) at this point because they know the code the best. If you have to get someone new then they have to first read and understand the entire suite of scripts before they can start work.
Except most of that time was spent on the graphical engine, so more like 6-7 years experience. Either way, even if it was 1-2 years, they made a lot of mistakes that they didn't make with FFXI and I can't for the life of me understand why they've regressed in terms of development.
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#40 Nov 09 2010 at 11:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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First to defend the game.. I think some of the ideas that are in place are decent enough. I like the idea of experience from quests. I like the idea of being able to change jobs on the fly. The idea that the gathering resources are shared.
bsphil wrote:
Except most of that time was spent on the graphical engine, so more like 6-7 years experience. Either way, even if it was 1-2 years, they made a lot of mistakes that they didn't make with FFXI and I can't for the life of me understand why they've regressed in terms of development.
Because it seems like they ended up releasing the game while it should have still been in Alpha. It's completely my opinion and I've no idea if it's the case but it sounds like they reached a point where the game was operating fairly stable and then someone higher up decided it's good enough for now and to release it. That all the missing stuff can be added at some later date and because they have such loyal fans that we'd all just grin and bear it. I believe I am genuinely ticked off at SE for having done this. First I feel they intentionally screwed me and my friends over by releasing the game like this but then I also think about how the game appears to me that it could've/should've been if released at an appropriate time. I fear many people won't come back even if it does get worked out and that also ticks me off.
#41 Nov 09 2010 at 11:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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It's a nice looking game. I'd give the graphics a 7/10.

And while, I'm at it:

combat 1/10
story 4/10
sound 7/10
replay 2/10
crafting 4/10
interaction 2/10
challenge 2/10
#42 Nov 09 2010 at 11:41 AM Rating: Decent
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Does Anyone realize that we are defending XIV to ff11.This is just crazy. In the computer world 8years or whatever the time frame was is like 200years in computer years. Come on guys and poss gals it is like defending a iphone to a 1985 brick cell phone. This game should of been 20times what ff11 was and it is not. Where it stands right now it is not even as good as a 8year old game FF11 and we should be comparing it to its peers right now Aion,GW,WoW,etc.Before you bash those games they are the new standard right now and XIV can't even compare to one of those games right now. Before you think it I Don't play Wow anymore I played FF11 for 3years before that and have played some other mmo in between.

SE fell flat on its face and has some huge hurdles to over come not just patches it needs to be shutdown re-released in March.
#43 Nov 09 2010 at 11:48 AM Rating: Decent
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I have no problem with the lack of content, the change in battle system is actually not bad, areas like Coerthas keep me interested. However, the UI is complete crap, the menu system is broken, and the lag is Jueno AH style most everywhere. If those things are not fixed in the November big patch then I fear I cannot convince myself to pay for crap.
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#44 Nov 09 2010 at 12:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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Gadhelyn wrote:

I don't understand why people keep saying "Oh, 8 years of experience for a solid foundation!" as if the game was slapped together a month before alpha.


Are we *really* sure they didn't?

I want to defend the game, but there's just a lot of things that need tweaking. I have been logging into FFXI the past few days and appreciating little things - like being able to read the font on the map. Little things like not having to press the space bar to open the chat before hitting CTRL+R to type a message back to a friend. Little things, like being able to promote someone in the linkshell who is in Whitegate without requiring a level of coordination that would make even logistics masters cringe. Little things, like being able to move things around in my inventory either manually or automatically so it's easier for me to find shirts as opposed to pants.

It's a lot of little things, that just add up to a big ol question mark - and the question is - was this REALLY in development for 5 years or was it just slapped together before alpha? I wish we knew - because I'd actually be a lot more forgiving of these problems if it turned out they were only working on it about a year before alpha, instead of the 5+ they had been bragging of.
#45 Nov 09 2010 at 12:51 PM Rating: Default
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I wonder what people will gonna find ridiculous, nonsense, sucky, bad programmed, copy/paste, no content, etc ,etc, after SE add more things and change things in the game, cause let's face it, they will change it and they will add more things. Seems that no matter what they will fix or do to the game, haters will keep jumping into the next flamming step on this game, just to find something wrong and keep saying "FFXIV fails".

I think by this time, WE GET IT and it's getting so annoy reading and reading the same. You hate the game, w00t, good for you. Go and play other game, watch tv, enjoy life, w/e you wanna do with your time.

Well, after saying this, I'm back to my bubble of happiness, ignorance and boredom , or in your words , FFXIV, to keep having my fun. For those who don't like or enjoy the game, have a nice day trying other titles, for those who are with me, see ya in Eorzea. (and no, I'm not leaving the forums, I'm back to my leves and crafts).
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#46 Nov 09 2010 at 2:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
I wonder what people will gonna find ridiculous, nonsense, sucky, bad programmed, copy/paste, no content, etc ,etc, after SE add more things and change things in the game, cause let's face it, they will change it and they will add more things. Seems that no matter what they will fix or do to the game, haters will keep jumping into the next flamming step on this game, just to find something wrong and keep saying "FFXIV fails".

I think by this time, WE GET IT and it's getting so annoy reading and reading the same. You hate the game, w00t, good for you. Go and play other game, watch tv, enjoy life, w/e you wanna do with your time.

Well, after saying this, I'm back to my bubble of happiness, ignorance and boredom , or in your words , FFXIV, to keep having my fun. For those who don't like or enjoy the game, have a nice day trying other titles, for those who are with me, see ya in Eorzea. (and no, I'm not leaving the forums, I'm back to my leves and crafts)


You started off really, really nice in the OP and now degenerated into flaming. You know, I am beginning to agree with some others on here that it's impossible to have a civil discussion no matter WHAT side you are on.

This is a discussion board, and sometimes people are going to have different opinions than you do. If that makes me a "hater" who is just ranting about "FFXIV fails" as opposed to contributing valid concerns, then so be it. I won't post in your thread again - but this is exactly the sort of flaming that I believe Pikko was talking about yesterday. It does go both ways.
#47scrish, Posted: Nov 09 2010 at 3:42 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Yes FFXI was in a more polished state in NA release GUESS @#%^ING WHAT IT HAD 18 @#%^ING MONTHS IN JAPAN TO GET IN THAT @#%^ING WAY this game was release world wide at the same @#%^ing time.
#48 Nov 09 2010 at 3:44 PM Rating: Default
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Complaining about complaining?

Ugh! My head hurts just by thinking about it. Sounds like something a woman would think up.
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#49 Nov 09 2010 at 3:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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scrish wrote:
theweenie wrote:
RdeLeo wrote:
People keeps comparing FFXIV to FFXI. Saying it has lots of content, things, more fun, quests, etc. Guess what? Took it 8 years to be like that.
As someone who picked up FFXI on the North American release day, I disagree with that statement. At the NA launch FFXI was in a more polished and more complete state than FFXIV.

I can appreciate what you're trying to do with this thread, to balance things out against the negativity, but it is not our job as the playerbase to defend the game for SE. The game will be defended by SE's own actions as they fix the current problems. Our job as the playerbase is to merely play the game.

Edit - I haven't read anyone arguing that FFXIV should be in the same state as FFXI is now after 8 years. The comparisons I've read have been about FFXIV release vs FFXI release. Obviously if you compare a game that's been out for 8 years its going to be in better shape than one that has been out for 2 months.

Edited, Nov 8th 2010 5:47pm by theweenie


Yes FFXI was in a more polished state in NA release GUESS @#%^ING WHAT IT HAD 18 @#%^ING MONTHS IN JAPAN TO GET IN THAT @#%^ING WAY this game was release world wide at the same @#%^ing time.

Find out what ffxi was like at the Japanese release and you could be shocked, the clue for how long the game had in Japan is that at the NA release IT HAD A @#%^ING EXPANSION OUT, you are the kind of person that make americans look stupid.

This release was alot better than the JP release of xi, partly because from what i have read in xi's JP release THE @#%^ING SERVERS KEPT CRASHING.

Oh and I have done the research for you, took about 5 secs ffxi Patch notes for release

So stop saying "but ffxi was more polished at NA release" because it had 18 @#%^ing months to get to that state


Adding profane adjectives in front of every noun.. doesn't exactly increase your credibility :|
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#50 Nov 09 2010 at 3:46 PM Rating: Good
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nick2412 wrote:
scrish wrote:
theweenie wrote:
RdeLeo wrote:
People keeps comparing FFXIV to FFXI. Saying it has lots of content, things, more fun, quests, etc. Guess what? Took it 8 years to be like that.
As someone who picked up FFXI on the North American release day, I disagree with that statement. At the NA launch FFXI was in a more polished and more complete state than FFXIV.

I can appreciate what you're trying to do with this thread, to balance things out against the negativity, but it is not our job as the playerbase to defend the game for SE. The game will be defended by SE's own actions as they fix the current problems. Our job as the playerbase is to merely play the game.

Edit - I haven't read anyone arguing that FFXIV should be in the same state as FFXI is now after 8 years. The comparisons I've read have been about FFXIV release vs FFXI release. Obviously if you compare a game that's been out for 8 years its going to be in better shape than one that has been out for 2 months.

Edited, Nov 8th 2010 5:47pm by theweenie


Yes FFXI was in a more polished state in NA release GUESS @#%^ING WHAT IT HAD 18 @#%^ING MONTHS IN JAPAN TO GET IN THAT @#%^ING WAY this game was release world wide at the same @#%^ing time.

Find out what ffxi was like at the Japanese release and you could be shocked, the clue for how long the game had in Japan is that at the NA release IT HAD A @#%^ING EXPANSION OUT, you are the kind of person that make americans look stupid.

This release was alot better than the JP release of xi, partly because from what i have read in xi's JP release THE @#%^ING SERVERS KEPT CRASHING.

Oh and I have done the research for you, took about 5 secs ffxi Patch notes for release

So stop saying "but ffxi was more polished at NA release" because it had 18 @#%^ing months to get to that state


Adding profane adjectives in front of every noun.. doesn't exactly increase your credibility :|


It caught your attention didn't it? XD
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#51 Nov 09 2010 at 3:48 PM Rating: Default
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nick2412 wrote:
scrish wrote:
theweenie wrote:
RdeLeo wrote:
People keeps comparing FFXIV to FFXI. Saying it has lots of content, things, more fun, quests, etc. Guess what? Took it 8 years to be like that.
As someone who picked up FFXI on the North American release day, I disagree with that statement. At the NA launch FFXI was in a more polished and more complete state than FFXIV.

I can appreciate what you're trying to do with this thread, to balance things out against the negativity, but it is not our job as the playerbase to defend the game for SE. The game will be defended by SE's own actions as they fix the current problems. Our job as the playerbase is to merely play the game.

Edit - I haven't read anyone arguing that FFXIV should be in the same state as FFXI is now after 8 years. The comparisons I've read have been about FFXIV release vs FFXI release. Obviously if you compare a game that's been out for 8 years its going to be in better shape than one that has been out for 2 months.

Edited, Nov 8th 2010 5:47pm by theweenie


Yes FFXI was in a more polished state in NA release GUESS @#%^ING WHAT IT HAD 18 @#%^ING MONTHS IN JAPAN TO GET IN THAT @#%^ING WAY this game was release world wide at the same @#%^ing time.

Find out what ffxi was like at the Japanese release and you could be shocked, the clue for how long the game had in Japan is that at the NA release IT HAD A @#%^ING EXPANSION OUT, you are the kind of person that make americans look stupid.

This release was alot better than the JP release of xi, partly because from what i have read in xi's JP release THE @#%^ING SERVERS KEPT CRASHING.

Oh and I have done the research for you, took about 5 secs ffxi Patch notes for release

So stop saying "but ffxi was more polished at NA release" because it had 18 @#%^ing months to get to that state


Adding profane adjectives in front of every noun.. doesn't exactly increase your credibility :|


I dong give a @#%^ about that i'm just sick of people that think they know what they are talking about and when they dont, the post i quoted got me so ******* btw i swear alot when ppl **** me off

btw I do know the game has problems now but do you see me flaming it? no I just sit back let SE do their thing whilst giving them feedback and i do admit i do flame the flamers, constantly posting "omg this game sucks, omg this game has no content" guess what we have seen em somewhere before, where was it? oh yeah one every single general forum about ffxiv.

Give it a break, go get laid and come back in a few months when they fixed things, you cant fix a MMO overnight it takes time.

Edited, Nov 9th 2010 4:55pm by scrish
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