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GMs are useless.Follow

#1 Nov 08 2010 at 4:27 PM Rating: Good
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I've been trying to grind with a friend in a camp we like (great camp from 1 to 13 if you have capped stats), it supports a few people. And there's this guy botting.
He was there 2 days ago and he was level 8, today he's level 20 and he's still botting the place.
Difference is that now he's so high that he's killing what could support three or four people of the proper level range.

I was told by the other players that the had filed reports, so I thought I'd do the same.

First I went with support desk. It took the GM over an hour to answer.

His answer? He couldn't do anything about it, and he linked me to a SE link for the special task force.

I filed a report there.


Okay, so meanwhile the whole day has gone by and the guy is still ruining the game for those actually playing it.
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#2 Nov 08 2010 at 4:35 PM Rating: Default
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uhm, where are you grinding?
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#3 Nov 08 2010 at 4:36 PM Rating: Good
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They could at least go to where suspected botter is and check it out themselves.
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#4 Nov 08 2010 at 4:36 PM Rating: Decent
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I can understand the problem with bots, yes, they ruin the game... but, calling a GM cause a camp you like was taken? Of course he would do nothing, first they have to investigate if it's really a bot, what if he is a guy like you, that likes that camp too; second, camps or spots are not reserved.
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#5 Nov 08 2010 at 4:50 PM Rating: Decent
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FYI Game moderators are almost always 100% useless (this is assuming you are playing a non private server game)... All they can do is take your report (assuming it's legit) and report it to the banning management or special banning team (or w.e.).. They don't outright ban on the spot.. From all the games I have played I have never seen a game moderator actually do anything to bots instantly (except for Atlantica online.. reports takes like 15 minutes to process then insta ban O.O) ... Banning usually occur right after updates/maintenance..

Let me reiterate though.. GM's ARE useless in "most" cases.. in Square Enix people generally don't become important till their CEO xD or management .. The power hierarchy goes like this..

CEO
Management
Dev
Special Forces that ban people (I name them that because it sounds cool even though all they do is press the ban button)
Job Rehab Center
Web Managers
Game Moderators
Japanese Fan boys
Japanese
Beta Testers
Dedicated non-japanese players that are critical of the game << considered trolls by zam
Fan boys <<<< exists mostly on fan sites like zam.. the bulk is in FFXIVcore
Fans
QQing noobs that have the game and play
Noobs that have the game but don't play
Non-players


Edited, Nov 8th 2010 5:50pm by nick2412

Edited, Nov 8th 2010 5:51pm by nick2412

Edited, Nov 8th 2010 5:52pm by nick2412

Edited, Nov 8th 2010 5:53pm by nick2412
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#6 Nov 08 2010 at 4:53 PM Rating: Decent
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In FFXI, when there was about 100 fishing bots in Qufim, a band of GM's in their shiny armors appeared and started killing them all, and removing them. I think I still have the pics somewhere, but it was really cool watching that.
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#7 Nov 08 2010 at 5:08 PM Rating: Good
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The problem isn't the GMs, it's that they need to prove the person is botting before they can act. People often forget that there is seldom much evidence that a person is botting. All they can do is gauge it by their in-game behaviour, and that can still lead to false accusations and bannings.

Playing the safer option and investigating before they act is one thing I hold SE in high esteem for. Granted it means that cases often take a lot longer to resolve, but at least they reduce innocent 'casualties' to a minimum in the process. Its easy to blame the GMs for not acting without really thinking about whether or not the person they're reporting is truly a bot.

They could just be very anti-social and autonomous players, doing the same tasks constantly because they believe it's the most efficient use of their time. That's not to say there are no genuine botters, just that without hard evidence people should be a bit more careful about when they cry 'wolf'.
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#8 Nov 08 2010 at 5:25 PM Rating: Good
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RdeLeo wrote:
I can understand the problem with bots, yes, they ruin the game... but, calling a GM cause a camp you like was taken? Of course he would do nothing, first they have to investigate if it's really a bot, what if he is a guy like you, that likes that camp too; second, camps or spots are not reserved.


It wasn't because he "took our camp". There was my friend and me in a party, and a stranger by himself. We all genuinely felt he was ruining the game for us.
It isn't that he's just botting, he has been botting the camp since level 8 and it was bareable. But now he's so high that he kills faster than the mobs spawn, so it ruins the area for every other player.

XIV keeps server side logs. The GM could easily take a look, see he has been grinding for three days straight without any breaks.

How do I know this? Because, as I said, the guy was level 8 when I first saw him. Now he's level 20.

This is a Thisletail Marmot cave in gridania. It starts sucking at 11 and yields close to no sp at 13. Its pretty obvious whats going on. If a GM would just come and see, it really leaves no room for doubt.

PS: he's a thau and hasn't even moved at ALL from where he's standing in all this time.

Edited, Nov 8th 2010 6:27pm by MajidahSihaam
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#9 Nov 08 2010 at 7:12 PM Rating: Good
Glitterhands wrote:
The problem isn't the GMs, it's that they need to prove the person is botting before they can act. People often forget that there is seldom much evidence that a person is botting. All they can do is gauge it by their in-game behaviour, and that can still lead to false accusations and bannings.


The problem with that is there has been sufficient proof of in-game botting, RMT activity, and everything else you can think of. The issue however, is that SE will take no actions against it at this time. Someone came up with a speculation about that (Sorry I can't remember where it was again.) so I'm gonna try and reproduce it:

SE isn't likely doing anything about it right now due to FFXIV still being in a free-trial period. Once they start charging fees to play we may see the Special Task Force taking action.

That isn't precisely what was said and if I misconstrued it somewhere there sorry. Anyway, I somewhat agree with it. I do believe SE is waiting at this point because of it being in a free-trial period. You've got to remember, they're losing cash still right now seeing as they extended the free-trial by 30 days. Even if they got their funds for the SE and CE copies that might just barely cause them to break even right now. I haven't checked around but was pretty sure there was a thread on them losing revenue due to FFXIV's failed launch. But rather than spend extra resources trying to deal with RMT they're keeping an eye on their practices, what they're doing, and how they're doing it. Or at least I hope they are.

When the servers switch over to the pay period we may see more action take place against RMT. But for now, all we can do is live with it. Is it fair to the customers? No, but that's sadly how SE has worked for the longest time.
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#10 Nov 08 2010 at 8:56 PM Rating: Decent
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Corporations tend to give their moderators very, very limited authority, fearing some GMs may abuse their power or go overboard, especially in very large MMOs where many, many GMs are needed.

In smaller MMOs, GMs tend to have more power. I was a senior GM in an MMO (not an RPG though) several years ago. I had the authority silence people, temporarily ban them from the server, or temporarily ban them from all servers. And I could do it on the spot, immediately. Minor cheating, such as abusing minor bugs, would result in a server ban. Blatantly cheating, such as using speed hacks, would result in a ban from all servers. Repeated abuse would result in a permanent ban.

A little off topic, but just wanted to throw it out that the commands to silence and ban people from the game were, amusingly, "*shutup <playername>" and "*kill <playername>" respectively.

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#11 Nov 08 2010 at 9:22 PM Rating: Decent
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I personally don't like the fact that a GM has such little power. If you hire someone to GM a game then you have to trust them to do the job until proven that they are unfit to perform the duty. In my opinion a GM should have unlimited capability to do whatever the situation calls for. If you can't trust them, then why have them?
#12 Nov 08 2010 at 9:56 PM Rating: Good
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Unfortunately, it's not that simple.

Have you ever called into a large company for customer or technical support? The first person you speak to is a "level 1" customer service agent that generally doesn't have the authority nor power to do much. This is essentially what a GM is in FFXIV (except with a fancier title). Depending on your problem, your GM ticket will be escalated to the next level. For example, using WoW specific positions (as I am unsure if FFXIV has similar branches as I have yet to call a GM in this game), account related issues would be escalated to Account Administration, dungeon/raid issues to specialists, etc.
#13 Nov 09 2010 at 1:17 AM Rating: Decent
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look up gm of ffxi on youtube they are farm from useless. I did a monster player kill on ffxi as a female tarutaru with green pigtails no less. And turned myself in. I was warped to gm jail and well after being told how cute I was... XD..... i was told not to do it again or i would be temp ban. I also have reported on inappropriate names/ LS names and they get changed. Even a vid about it is on youtube. I would expect the same in time on ffxiv. Now in Aion gm ARE WAY USELESS. all they do is e-mail you after 4 hours. no in game convo. And go by "pics or it didn't happen"
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#14 Nov 09 2010 at 6:35 AM Rating: Good
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Several of my linkshell buddies have reported bots such as you (OP) described. GM confirmed they got the report and that it would be investigated. 1-2 weeks later they were gone. Sure it took them time to get it done, but they got rid of them. I approve of a thorough investigation instead of just flat out banning people on a whim.

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#15 Nov 09 2010 at 7:11 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
His answer? He couldn't do anything about it, and he linked me to a SE link for the special task force.


Special Task Force Unit.

"STFU" Squares little joke to all the compaints about the botting and cheating in XI and now XIV I guess.

Edited, Nov 9th 2010 8:12am by preludes
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#16 Nov 09 2010 at 8:00 AM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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GMs were worthless in FFXI too, pretty much anytime you got stuck, you could fix that on your own, and anything else you'd call them for, they couldn't do anything about it.



Edited, Nov 9th 2010 8:02am by bsphil
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#17 Nov 09 2010 at 8:42 AM Rating: Good
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GM's handle mostly player disputes such as trade scams, harassment, and monster holding (claiming a NM without attacking it for long periods of time). From the FFXI GM Manual, the 10 GM Commandments are:

1. No changes to character stats or abilities (except to rectify statistical anomalies).
2. No item creation unless authorized. A lead or senior GM must approve item creation.
3. Always leave record of any action taken.
4. Always be polite. There are some pretty funny demo scripts that they provide in the manual.
5. Escalate when necessary. (escalate to a lead or senior GM)
6. Do not threaten or attack the players. This rule is unfortunate.
7. Do not move characters without any reason.
8. Do not form personal relationships with players.
9. Stay in costume. This is so the player knows they are talking with a real Square Enix employee.
10. Do not make unauthorized broadcasts. Do not shout in public channels, or make unauthorized server-wide messages.

The actual GM policies are listed here: https://secure.playonline.com/ff11eu/rule/policy.shtml

The Special Task Force handles all the bots/cheaters/RMT.


Edited, Nov 9th 2010 9:52am by OnyxFFXI
#18 Nov 09 2010 at 9:34 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
The Special Task Force handles all the bots/cheaters/RMT.


Which is retarded because they are not actively in the game. They can't see the **** happening, instead you have to go to a separate website, file a 'report' and then wait for Gods knows how long for someone to 'investigate' it. Wouldn't it be more prudent, and oh, I don't know, make more sense to have the STF wandering around the game and investigating GM escalations, instead of us having to report to another website?

GM escalations would be perfect, that way the STF doesn't get hounded by the useless calls, and we don't have to report on another website, they can actively respond and you don't go days waiting for action to be taken against offenders.

It'll probably never happen, because it makes sense.

Edited, Nov 9th 2010 8:34am by papajay
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#19 Nov 09 2010 at 9:53 AM Rating: Decent
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GM's have not changed much in these games ;)
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#20 Nov 09 2010 at 3:34 PM Rating: Decent
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GMs are not useless.

I got stuck in a tree trying to hump it one time. GM appeared inside me in five minutes and carried me to the nearby camp.

I was swooned.
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