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#1 Nov 09 2010 at 1:54 AM Rating: Good
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this post may be multi post as I am on ps3 there is limited space I can type. I'm not a great typer and have no acess to spell check. I also have no working PC.

What people have forgot.
Irishclass777 (Firozia of Lakshmi (ffxi) )
I have been playing MMORPG since the first season of .hack//sign And played the third installment of .hack (the game) was out. This got me into the mmo scene. I like how players talked, explored, traded, and overall had fun on these games.
My first mmo was ffxi on ps2 LOVE IT. I made alot of friends and having a good time. I tried WoW didn't like the community, game was fun but cumminity was bad. I tried several f2p mmo same thing. I troed Aion, hated the community. I hear of ffxiv. I heard how combat was gonna be better then ffxi, motion capture animation etc.
What people have forgot, was that ffxiv had a rocky if not nasty alpha/beta test. And people basicly only signed up to play oit free and dubed it a fail. Not saying this was everyone, and not everyone could post. (cont)

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#2 Nov 09 2010 at 2:02 AM Rating: Good
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Se had several unexpected problems with ffxiv that may have possible lead to this launch. They couldn't add what they wanted out fear the game couldn't run well. People have forgot that, it does take time to fix issues, add even "basic standereds" to a game. Also people have forgoten what a standered is in an mmo. For example, since a standered meaning every game has it, an Auction house is NOT an mmo standdred. I played a few f2p mmo and yes they do count as mmo, DO NOT have an auction house system but a market ward system. But SE did state they will add one when the game is ready for it, currently that isn't now. They need to fix the game.

Also what people have forgoten. Is that this is a new game, new game design that caters to a new set of gamers. Going into an mmo with the "standereds" expectations is a flawed mindset. Meaning joining a new game as a veteran player. Which all across the globe may have lead to the currect issues in the games popularity. But it will be fixed.
(cont)
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#3 Nov 09 2010 at 2:11 AM Rating: Good
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Lastly, People have forgoten what it means to be an mmorpg player in an mmorpg community. Everyone is focused on personal gain, ad tad too much. They in both ffxi and ffxiv, they would rather multi box then group with others just to get fast levels. They would solo to get fast levels. In ffxi I seen parties with 3 white mages get a power level (outside healer) just so someone can get fast levels.

Also they forgot that part of being a good community is talking to players, helping out newbies/ low level players if they need it. Welcome new players to the game. Helping also is not saying "go to website x" That being lazy and limiting a possible convo which may lead to a new friend. Which leads to another issue, people in some cases are finding "internet" friends are "lame" or "stupid" to have. "Why should I respect someone I may never meet" Since the mmo boom, more people are playing mmo, and the maturaty levels of said players is droping. In wow, I was trying to rp to break the ice on a server I was (cont)
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#4 Nov 09 2010 at 2:20 AM Rating: Good
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bullied relentlessly by group of guys as the town was attacked by some pvp'ers. I was called hoe, horde hoe, spy. The encircled my character and taunted me. (I live in mass. We are starting to take cyber bullying seriously. I think all mmo should) I took thi to the community on the forums and had to fight tooth and nail to say what happen to me shouldn't have happen. I then ended up temp ban for 72 hours. Just for defending myself against a community.
What to learn from this is:
1 SE knows ffxiv got issues learn to live or take a break as they are fixed.
2 Try putting personal gain aside and group up with other players and just talk and have fun. Make friends.
3 Have fun, you make your own fun. There is more to the combat then spaming 1, try doing 1,2, in odd patterns. Same goes for crafting.

All in all. Try to be a good member of the ffxiv/ffxi community. Treat others how you like to be treated and don't feel you must play alone to have fun.
Good luck to all. And hope to play when ps3 hits.
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#5 Nov 09 2010 at 7:11 AM Rating: Good
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This game needs more people like you. I can't believe what happened to you on Wow, how horrible. If you like to RP then this game you are going to love. Love what you said, when ps3 hits, you have a friend already on wutai.
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#6preludes, Posted: Nov 09 2010 at 7:15 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) why 4 posts? o.O just make one big one. Increasing your post count! :P
#7 Nov 09 2010 at 7:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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preludes wrote:
why 4 posts? o.O just make one big one. Increasing your post count! :P

Edited, Nov 9th 2010 8:16am by preludes



You do realize he is on ps3 and has chat box limitations . . . right? he states that at the top of his post before
he said anything.


Good post and I agree. That is why i love my LS on Figaro, what a bunch of amazing stand up people.
Makes this game really really enjoyable :)

I am stoked for december when we can start nm/faction leve's and go hunting high powered super monsters. ^^
#8 Nov 09 2010 at 8:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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preludes wrote:
why 4 posts? o.O just make one big one. Increasing your post count! :P

Edited, Nov 9th 2010 8:16am by preludes


Typical...you didn't even read the first line of the OP's post and had to say something sarcastic.

Regarding the topic...the FF community will thrive again. It will take some time...but I have confidence it will.

I have a interesting story about why I left WOW. I played for about 6 months(made it to endgame in 3 weeks), and was in a pretty good raiding guild. We did weekly 10 and 25 raids and knew what we were doing. But it felt like I was in the military or something. It was fun for about a week then it became a daily pressure to just log in. One day I was out of position according to a guild leader. He told me to log off, go grab another app(to add to the 50 I was running) that would tell me how many feet I was standing from the nearest player. I logged off...never logged back on.

That was 10 months ago...and I waited patiently for FFXIV. Its here...its incomplete, but it should be fine, especially by the time PS3 comes around if not sooner. Hopefully the next few weeks will show SE has put in the effort to right the ship.



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#9 Nov 09 2010 at 9:09 AM Rating: Good
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I've never had any of this happen to me on wow, I have seen people making fun of rp and always end up getting into a big argument over who is really RPing here between them and the RPers. it shuts them up after a while.

as for the range thing from other people, you don't need an addon for that, its in the game.

yes wow has some immature people, **** it has a lot since it just has a lot of people period, FFXI had them on the same scale just like FFXIV will.
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#10 Nov 09 2010 at 9:32 AM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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Irishclass777 wrote:
this post may be multi post as I am on ps3 there is limited space I can type.
lol ps3 limitations.
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#11 Nov 09 2010 at 9:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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900 posts
bsphil wrote:
Irishclass777 wrote:
this post may be multi post as I am on ps3 there is limited space I can type.
lol >ps3< (insert preferred/hated console here) limitations.



lol literally the start of EVERY console war argument
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#12 Nov 09 2010 at 10:00 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
lol literally the start of EVERY console war argument


Well, this one is kind of special. Made me chuckle, anyway.

Quote:
1 SE knows ffxiv got issues learn to live or take a break as they are fixed.
2 Try putting personal gain aside and group up with other players and just talk and have fun. Make friends.
3 Have fun, you make your own fun. There is more to the combat then spaming 1, try doing 1,2, in odd patterns. Same goes for crafting.


Now to address this in order.
1. We come back here to see if there are any updates. When there aren't, people feel disappointed. When there are, people feel elated. We're not the ones who need to "learn to live" with it to be honest.

2. What makes you think peoples' complaints have ANYTHING to do with personal gain? I'd like to be able to just cure someone without having to make sure my character is facing the right way. Duoing with my BFF was a nightmare because every time she would move to hit the mob from a different angle I had to readjust my position so I was still facing her. I mean - there's an example of something that annoyed me and had nothing to do with my own personal gain.

3. There really isn't more to combat than build TP -> use WS\ability and there never will be. That's just the nature of combat and the way FF games play. That's not what people are having issues with though. The big issues are with lag, and interface, and things that go beyond "how do we kill this monster". "How do we kill this monster" is fun, "how do we ensure that our attacks aren't lost in lag" is not.


Finally, I would like to know if you (the OP) even have PLAYED FFXIV. It doesn't sound like you have - posting on a Ps3 instead of a PC. So if you haven't played the game and don't know firsthand what the actual flaws are, why make it sound like folks who have played are "doinitwrong"? At least, that's what it *sounded* like to me from your posts - we are just doinitwrong and should just plug along happily because it's all roses and we're just making issues out of nothing....
#13 Nov 09 2010 at 10:00 AM Rating: Excellent
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I had a really fun time last night. I got Miner to 20 (yay first 20 Class!) and had a great duo party with my Lancer and a guy from my LS. We got over 10k in under an hour and now I'm 4k from Lancer 20 :D

What made it fun was doing something together and figuring out the wacky spawn system FFXIV has where mobs respawn as different mobs.... we figured out that we could duo the harder puk/wolves that spawn and then we would solo the ladybugs if they spawned and SP was coming in really good that way. It felt great to come up with a cool system - like discovering something new.

Unfortunately, for me, times like these are a rare occurrence. I'm usually fighting with the UI, figuring out which item to repair and where, cursing at the broken crafting system, or wandering aimlessly looking for materials/equipment that I NEED to progress any further.

I'm fixing the things I can rectify, I'm moving away from my current LS filled with ex-Wowers who spend more time on vent then typing in LS chat and into a more friendly LS filled with ex-FFXIers where I feel more at home. I'm reaching out to people for help and to help.

For an MMORPG the game mechanics should be nothing but an invisible link between you the gamer and the social experience that make the game so fun.
That's where FFXI fails and fails hard. It prevents you from enjoying the community, the social aspect, the fun of an MMORPG at every turn. Its impossible to chat or send tells with any efficiency and you spend so much time fighting with the interface that it impedes anything you're trying to accomplish. I'm sure SE will get there eventually, but I'm going to have trouble paying for them along the way. The end of Nov is coming quickly.

Edited, Nov 9th 2010 11:02am by rikkuotaku
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#14 Nov 09 2010 at 11:23 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:

2. What makes you think peoples' complaints have ANYTHING to do with personal gain? I'd like to be able to just cure someone without having to make sure my character is facing the right way. Duoing with my BFF was a nightmare because every time she would move to hit the mob from a different angle I had to readjust my position so I was still facing her. I mean - there's an example of something that annoyed me and had nothing to do with my own personal gain.


Why don't you lock on to the target? You'll face her automatically wherever she goes.
#15 Nov 09 2010 at 11:45 AM Rating: Decent
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It's a good suggestion, but also a workaround and I'm not fond of workarounds. What happens when it's me, her and her boyfriend? What happens when it's me and five strangers? The underlying issue needs to be addressed - i.e., make it work like it did in FFXI because LoS issues like this don't add an extra dimension to the gameplay, it only serves to frustrate players. I'm cool with being within a certain range, but facing the target isn't always in the mage's best interest.

#16 Nov 09 2010 at 11:52 AM Rating: Good
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Irishclass777 wrote:
Also they forgot that part of being a good community is talking to players, helping out newbies/ low level players if they need it. Welcome new players to the game. Helping also is not saying "go to website x" That being lazy and limiting a possible convo which may lead to a new friend. Which leads to another issue, people in some cases are finding "internet" friends are "lame" or "stupid" to have. "Why should I respect someone I may never meet" Since the mmo boom, more people are playing mmo, and the maturaty levels of said players is droping. In wow, I was trying to rp to break the ice on a server I was (cont)


Last night someone approached to say hi. When they had first started I made them a new maple wand and gave it to them for free. It was a cool moment - running into them later in game and having them still remember me. That is the sort of thing I like about MMOs.

Then later that night I failed a leve worth 20K because the wolves kept running back to spawn point and healing to full.

It ruined my happy feeling.

I've tried to be patient with this game, but I am getting really frustrated - frustrated with the fact that I STILL don't have the ability to get an extra retainer so I have the inv. to actually skill up crafts. Frustrated that SE has done NOTHING over the last two months as countless subs have dropped - they should have been patching like mad instead of this crap all at once thing.

I'm going to keep my crysta keyed in for three months, but I am not moving to make it six months. I have also downloaded LOTRO and will be trying that out, and I am going to go buy the ultimate pack or whatever for EQ2 and install and tool around with it (pack comes with 60 days free time right off the bat).

I will keep logging in to FFXIV - if I feel like it, but if I try other games and they are more fun... well SE will have lost another sub.
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#17 Nov 09 2010 at 12:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Simool wrote:

I have a interesting story about why I left WOW. I played for about 6 months(made it to endgame in 3 weeks), and was in a pretty good raiding guild. We did weekly 10 and 25 raids and knew what we were doing. But it felt like I was in the military or something. It was fun for about a week then it became a daily pressure to just log in. One day I was out of position according to a guild leader. He told me to log off, go grab another app(to add to the 50 I was running) that would tell me how many feet I was standing from the nearest player. I logged off...never logged back on.


Disclaimer: This is not a personal attack, this is simply a post to correct mistakes :/

It really boggles my mind how people refer to WoW as "instant gratification" or "easy mode mmo" on these forums. The guy above...

a) is exaggerating how many addons he had installed. I raid at the highest level and use around 10.
b) recieved good advice from his guild leader that would enable him to play at a higher level
c) quit out of frustration because of the games difficulty level, I like to call this when a player reaches his/her skill cap

When a fight dynamic requires people to be spread out more then 10 yards... or the Bosses debuff can "jump" or spread to another player, it is common for some players to NOT be able to gauge what 10 yards is on their screen. Maybe you thought you were far enough away, but you actually weren't, and the debuff chained to you.. and then someone else.. and your raid failed because of it. The use of third party addons allows people to monitor certain aspects of fights, generally, the parts of the fights where one mistake = wipe. It's all part of the learning process, which can be too difficult for some people to go through.

Please refrain from telling "funny stories" about WoW, where you exaggerate your claims to blemish WoW and make FFXIV look like some sort of escape to paradise. You never know when a WoW raider might be reading the forums.

And to the OP, Horde and Alliance cannot speak to each other... so... your claim about PvPer's attacking the town... circling around you and taunting you with vulgar language is just another make believe scenario that your posting to give WoW a bad rep. If your talking about your own faction, then you probably sat there RP'n instead of fighting off the attack, and then I could see why people would be annoyed enough to call you a name.

The reality is that there are immature players and situations in EVERY game on the market. WoW has the same amount of drama as FFXIV, you can read the fansites to verify that. FFXIV is generally accepted as being an older crowd, yet there is still drama in every thread that has the game as Good vs Bad...
#18 Nov 09 2010 at 12:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I'm cool with being within a certain range, but facing the target isn't always in the mage's best interest


In all honesty, positional healing can actually be quite succesful. I will use Age of Conan as an example. While that game definitely has its flaws, the healing mechanics are absolutely brilliant! They are innovative, and quite seriously an absolute blast to heal in AoC. And AoC healing is almost all positional and line of sight heals. The reason it does not work in FFXIV is because the targeting system is SO HORRIBLE. In AoC you dont even need to target anyone, but your heals will heal those in front of you in a large cone. It sounds weird but once you learn it and get used to it, it's absolutely brilliant.

My point is...It's not the healing mechanics that is the issue in FFXIV, it's the targetting, and movement mechanics that are the issue. I've played pretty much every mmo on the market and AoC healing is BY FAR the most enjoyable. And it's all positional and area healing. One of the glaring issues with ffxiv movement is there is really no "strafing" which to me is retarded in an mmo this day and age. In order to strafe in FFXIV you must lock on to your target. Then if you want to switch targets you need to unlock...then cycle through everything to your next desired target, then lock on AGAIN. It's just a hassle. Quite literally the WORSTE targetting system I have ever seen in an MMORPG. And yes it's 100 x worse than FFXI. I played FFXI for 5 years with 7 x 75. I mention this because I know many people who already try and say FFXIV targetting is the same as FFXI when really....it's a HUGE step in the wrong direction.

Either way...Postitional healing and line of sight healing CAN be really fun. It's just a matter of game mechanics allowing for it to be fun. FFXIV is quite the opposite. It's just a hassle. Especially with all the server side lag. I cant imagine when big HNM fights come out and you NEED to stun something instantly and the slight server side lag creates entire raids to wipe lol. But that's another story.

Babble babble blabble /off
#19 Nov 09 2010 at 12:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
a) is exaggerating how many addons he had installed. I raid at the highest level and use around 10.

Add-ons ruin games. It's a simple fact. The ruin games and take almost ALL skill required out of the mix. Threat meters? Heal bots? **** the ONLY addons that I find acceptable in a mmo are cosmetic mods for your user interface. Other than that, games like WOW and WARHAMMER have become WAY too reliant on 3rd party add-ons. Most morons that only ever played those mmo's come to something that DOESNT use add-ons and cant cope with the difficulty. It's like ********** I'm a tank and have NO IDEA how to hold aggro without an aggro meter" or ********** im a DPS and I pull aggro EVERY FIGHT because I dont have an alarm that warns me to stop dpsing." OR how about this one lol...The worste add-on of all time..(DPS meters)."I am raid leader and saw you only did 9% of the DPS that fight, you're kicked out of the raid, I dont care if you had to change your baby's diaper in the middle of the raid, you're OUT!" DPS meters ruin games. Why? Because it makes people only play half their jobs to try and "top the charts" for epeen. And it also makes guilds discriminate against those that do more than just PEW PEW.

Quote:
c) quit out of frustration because of the games difficulty level, I like to call this when a player reaches his/her skill cap


If you quit WOW because it was "too difficult" then you truelly are an mmorpg rookie. ****, LOTRO is harder than WOW and I also consider LOTRO to be very easy.

#20 Nov 09 2010 at 12:44 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Add-ons ruin games. It's a simple fact. The ruin games and take almost ALL skill required out of the mix. Threat meters? Heal bots? sh*t the ONLY addons that I find acceptable in a mmo are cosmetic mods for your user interface. Other than that, games like WOW and WARHAMMER have become WAY too reliant on 3rd party add-ons. Most morons that only ever played those mmo's come to something that DOESNT use add-ons and cant cope with the difficulty. It's like "sh*t I'm a tank and have NO IDEA how to hold aggro without an aggro meter" or "sh*t im a DPS and I pull aggro EVERY FIGHT because I dont have an alarm that warns me to stop dpsing." OR how about this one lol...The worste add-on of all time..(DPS meters)."I am raid leader and saw you only did 9% of the DPS that fight, you're kicked out of the raid, I dont care if you had to change your baby's diaper in the middle of the raid, you're OUT!" DPS meters ruin games. Why? Because it makes people only play half their jobs to try and "top the charts" for epeen. And it also makes guilds discriminate against those that do more than just PEW PEW.


What are you talking about? WoW doesn't work like FFXI in which you fight one monster at a time, your melee stands in one place and the casters stand in another so it's easy to see when you lose hate. I wonder if you are just using those as examples because the names make them sound like the mods are doing something for you.

Let me explain how the Threat add on works - it shows all the names of the people in your party, and lets you know when one of them pulls aggro from you. This is useful because often in WoW you are fighting many monsters at once - it's not uncommon for trash pulls to be upwards of 10 mobs depending on how good your tank is. AoE threat generation isn't always easy, and sometimes a caster will get a little more zealous than he or she should. So, you can see that someone is in trouble and use the program to cast a pre-defined spell or ability on whatever is targeting the person. It was written because there was a need for it in a many vs many situation. Its less prevalent in FFXI because the roles are more defined and adds are often only a handful of mobs that are kited by specific classes.

Let me now explain Healbot - because the name implies that it somehow does healing for you and it doesn't. You program it to respond to clicks and keystroke combinations based on your healing class, and then you focus on that instead of the regular raid frames. It doesn't do the healing for you, it just allows you to have all your spells set up neatly in mouse clicks and you could do the same thing with the regular user interface. Some of us prefer to use Healbot because it puts everyone's name in a neat little rectangular grid, and you can only see the 5 people in your party with the default UI, which doesn't help when someone in another party needs my heal. I also prefer it because I have an advanced mouse, and this enables me to attach a different spell or ability to each button.

Finally, the DPS meter he is talking about is called Recount, and it's no different than FFXI's parsers that leaders would often use. If you aren't pulling your weight, you are kicked out - and that happened in Meripos just as often as it does in WoW raids. It's unfair to act like WoW is the only game in which leaders expect folks to participate and do their jobs.

Seriously - some of you people need to calm down.

#21 Nov 09 2010 at 12:51 PM Rating: Good
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534 posts
Xclusive215 wrote:
Simool wrote:

I have a interesting story about why I left WOW. I played for about 6 months(made it to endgame in 3 weeks), and was in a pretty good raiding guild. We did weekly 10 and 25 raids and knew what we were doing. But it felt like I was in the military or something. It was fun for about a week then it became a daily pressure to just log in. One day I was out of position according to a guild leader. He told me to log off, go grab another app(to add to the 50 I was running) that would tell me how many feet I was standing from the nearest player. I logged off...never logged back on.


Disclaimer: This is not a personal attack, this is simply a post to correct mistakes :/

It really boggles my mind how people refer to WoW as "instant gratification" or "easy mode mmo" on these forums. The guy above...

a) is exaggerating how many addons he had installed. I raid at the highest level and use around 10.
b) recieved good advice from his guild leader that would enable him to play at a higher level
c) quit out of frustration because of the games difficulty level, I like to call this when a player reaches his/her skill cap

When a fight dynamic requires people to be spread out more then 10 yards... or the Bosses debuff can "jump" or spread to another player, it is common for some players to NOT be able to gauge what 10 yards is on their screen. Maybe you thought you were far enough away, but you actually weren't, and the debuff chained to you.. and then someone else.. and your raid failed because of it. The use of third party addons allows people to monitor certain aspects of fights, generally, the parts of the fights where one mistake = wipe. It's all part of the learning process, which can be too difficult for some people to go through.

Please refrain from telling "funny stories" about WoW, where you exaggerate your claims to blemish WoW and make FFXIV look like some sort of escape to paradise. You never know when a WoW raider might be reading the forums.

And to the OP, Horde and Alliance cannot speak to each other... so... your claim about PvPer's attacking the town... circling around you and taunting you with vulgar language is just another make believe scenario that your posting to give WoW a bad rep. If your talking about your own faction, then you probably sat there RP'n instead of fighting off the attack, and then I could see why people would be annoyed enough to call you a name.

The reality is that there are immature players and situations in EVERY game on the market. WoW has the same amount of drama as FFXIV, you can read the fansites to verify that. FFXIV is generally accepted as being an older crowd, yet there is still drama in every thread that has the game as Good vs Bad...


Heh..looks like I struck a wow nerve and didn't want to.

Dude..chill. I probably know more about wow than you so don't even try to lecture me on the game. I raided non-stop 10s and 25s for 5 months straight working on tier 10 gear. I knew what I was doing. The game was not difficult if you were in a good group. We just had one idiot who was "too" into the game and felt like berating me in front of everyone on Vent. So I bailed...and I never missed it.

Please...get off you WOW high-horse...this is not the venue for that.

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#22 Nov 09 2010 at 1:12 PM Rating: Good
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1,636 posts
Quote:
..The worste add-on of all time..(DPS meters)."I am raid leader and saw you only did 9% of the DPS that fight, you're kicked out of the raid, I dont care if you had to change your baby's diaper in the middle of the raid, you're OUT!" DPS meters ruin games. Why? Because it makes people only play half their jobs to try and "top the charts" for epeen. And it also makes guilds discriminate against those that do more than just PEW PEW.


Your blaming an information compiling addon for the actions of a min/maxing player. I'll give it to you, the dude you described is a jerk, unless the 9% is especially low (which it would likely be in a 10 man raid). However, if he'd determined that someone was doing low DPS without an addon and kicked them out that'd be ok?
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#23 Nov 09 2010 at 1:38 PM Rating: Good
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100 posts
Quote:
Add-ons ruin games. It's a simple fact.
That's an opinion. It's unfortunate that players often get tunnel vision looking at their damage/healing meters but they are useful tools for determining optimal play styles.

Skillful use of 3rd party programs does make games easier, but being held back by a clumsy UI isn't something I'd call a legitimate source of difficulty. As long as everyone has access to the programs, then the game is fair. It then becomes a challenge to optimize usage of add ons as well as play style. Let's not forget that WoW and Warhammer are significantly based around PvP, where DPS, HPS, and threat meters aren't a measure of performance.
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#24 Nov 09 2010 at 3:36 PM Rating: Decent
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6,898 posts
Xclusive215 wrote:
Simool wrote:

I have a interesting story about why I left WOW. I played for about 6 months(made it to endgame in 3 weeks), and was in a pretty good raiding guild. We did weekly 10 and 25 raids and knew what we were doing. But it felt like I was in the military or something. It was fun for about a week then it became a daily pressure to just log in. One day I was out of position according to a guild leader. He told me to log off, go grab another app(to add to the 50 I was running) that would tell me how many feet I was standing from the nearest player. I logged off...never logged back on.


Disclaimer: This is not a personal attack, this is simply a post to correct mistakes :/

It really boggles my mind how people refer to WoW as "instant gratification" or "easy mode mmo" on these forums. The guy above...

a) is exaggerating how many addons he had installed. I raid at the highest level and use around 10.
b) recieved good advice from his guild leader that would enable him to play at a higher level
c) quit out of frustration because of the games difficulty level, I like to call this when a player reaches his/her skill cap

When a fight dynamic requires people to be spread out more then 10 yards... or the Bosses debuff can "jump" or spread to another player, it is common for some players to NOT be able to gauge what 10 yards is on their screen. Maybe you thought you were far enough away, but you actually weren't, and the debuff chained to you.. and then someone else.. and your raid failed because of it. The use of third party addons allows people to monitor certain aspects of fights, generally, the parts of the fights where one mistake = wipe. It's all part of the learning process, which can be too difficult for some people to go through.

Please refrain from telling "funny stories" about WoW, where you exaggerate your claims to blemish WoW and make FFXIV look like some sort of escape to paradise. You never know when a WoW raider might be reading the forums.

And to the OP, Horde and Alliance cannot speak to each other... so... your claim about PvPer's attacking the town... circling around you and taunting you with vulgar language is just another make believe scenario that your posting to give WoW a bad rep. If your talking about your own faction, then you probably sat there RP'n instead of fighting off the attack, and then I could see why people would be annoyed enough to call you a name.

The reality is that there are immature players and situations in EVERY game on the market. WoW has the same amount of drama as FFXIV, you can read the fansites to verify that. FFXIV is generally accepted as being an older crowd, yet there is still drama in every thread that has the game as Good vs Bad...


Way to make a baseless assumption about someone. Clearly he must be a bad player because he doesn't like being berated by fellow players over something trivial.

Oh, and you are living in a dream world if you honestly believe that WoW has the same amount of drama as ffxiv, or really any other mmo out there. I played WoW for 6 months, and in those 6 months had more confrontations than I have had in the other 8 years of my mmo gaming experience. ****, I played lotro for over a year and only met ONE PERSON I would consider an @#%^ in that time. No one is going to take your argument seriously if you are trying to compare WoW's community to any other game.

I'm not a WoW hater. In fact, I feel they did some things very well. The Dungeon Finder is truly a genius idea for gaming and the casual player. Granted it is relied on far too heavily in WoW, but the idea is stellar. The customization of classes and ability to play a class in many different ways through the skill trees was also done really well in WoW. So there are aspects of the game that I think are great, but to talk about their community in comparison to any other mmo immediately discounts your argument.

Edited, Nov 9th 2010 4:37pm by BartelX
____________________________
Bartel Hayward--- Ultros Server
The Kraken Club <ZAM>
50 WAR • 50 MNK • 50 MIN • 50 GSM • 50 ARM • 50 LTW • 50 CUL • 50 WVR
thekrakenclub.shivtr.com
#25 Nov 09 2010 at 3:40 PM Rating: Decent
*
65 posts
Simool wrote:

Heh..looks like I struck a wow nerve and didn't want to.

Nope, I just don't approve of people making false claims to justify their like/dislike of a product
Simool wrote:

Dude..chill. I probably know more about wow than you so don't even try to lecture me on the game.

Highly doubt it, If you don't know how to type in /range.. then your not a end game raider.
Simool wrote:

I raided non-stop 10s and 25s for 5 months straight working on tier 10 gear. I knew what I was doing.

Obviously you didn't if your raid leader told you you needed an addon to check your range
Simool wrote:

The game was not difficult if you were in a good group. We just had one idiot who was "too" into the game and felt like berating me in front of everyone on Vent. So I bailed...and I never missed it.

That's what raid leaders do, they critique player performance and optimize the raid for the highest chance of success. Don't be mad at me that you were a weak link.
Simool wrote:

Please...get off you WOW high-horse...this is not the venue for that.

Making corrections to your completely exaggerated post does not mean I'm on a High horse. It is funny that your rebuttal is filled with more false claims and rationalization though.
#26 Nov 09 2010 at 3:43 PM Rating: Good
****
6,898 posts
Xclusive215 wrote:
Simool wrote:

Heh..looks like I struck a wow nerve and didn't want to.

Nope, I just don't approve of people making false claims to justify their like/dislike of a product
Simool wrote:

Dude..chill. I probably know more about wow than you so don't even try to lecture me on the game.

Highly doubt it, If you don't know how to type in /range.. then your not a end game raider.
Simool wrote:

I raided non-stop 10s and 25s for 5 months straight working on tier 10 gear. I knew what I was doing.

Obviously you didn't if your raid leader told you you needed an addon to check your range
Simool wrote:

The game was not difficult if you were in a good group. We just had one idiot who was "too" into the game and felt like berating me in front of everyone on Vent. So I bailed...and I never missed it.

That's what raid leaders do, they critique player performance and optimize the raid for the highest chance of success. Don't be mad at me that you were a weak link.
Simool wrote:

Please...get off you WOW high-horse...this is not the venue for that.

Making corrections to your completely exaggerated post does not mean I'm on a High horse. It is funny that your rebuttal is filled with more false claims and rationalization though.


Good lord, you are condescending. Again you make assumptions that he is lying when you know NOTHING about him. Do you think that makes your argument look stronger? Is your logic that if you insult him enough people will think you're right? Sorry, that's not how arguments work (at least, not successful ones).


Edited, Nov 9th 2010 4:46pm by BartelX
____________________________
Bartel Hayward--- Ultros Server
The Kraken Club <ZAM>
50 WAR • 50 MNK • 50 MIN • 50 GSM • 50 ARM • 50 LTW • 50 CUL • 50 WVR
thekrakenclub.shivtr.com
#27 Nov 09 2010 at 3:48 PM Rating: Decent
***
1,608 posts
Speaking of forgetting, as I post this I forgot what this whole thread was about.

Was there any real point anyway? XD
____________________________

#28 Nov 09 2010 at 3:50 PM Rating: Good
***
1,083 posts
LyleVertigo wrote:
Was there any real point anyway? XD


Don't make forum posts from your PS3.

Edited, Nov 9th 2010 4:50pm by rikkuotaku
____________________________
Wada: "There may be some areas of testing that were lacking or too rigid."
#29 Nov 09 2010 at 3:51 PM Rating: Decent
Sage
**
534 posts
Yea...struck a nerve. omg..too funny. You take this stuff WAY too seriously.

Hey..if it makes you feel any better, I may pick up cataclysm if SE does not follow through with their promises. It should fill up a few week of my life as I level Gobby to endgame.

FOR THE HORDE!! heh

edit - no point that I know of...just fillin time with sarcasm.

Edited, Nov 9th 2010 4:53pm by Simool
____________________________
Amos Fin - Ultros

#30 Nov 09 2010 at 3:52 PM Rating: Decent
*
65 posts
BartelX wrote:
Xclusive215 wrote:
Simool wrote:

I have a interesting story about why I left WOW. I played for about 6 months(made it to endgame in 3 weeks), and was in a pretty good raiding guild. We did weekly 10 and 25 raids and knew what we were doing. But it felt like I was in the military or something. It was fun for about a week then it became a daily pressure to just log in. One day I was out of position according to a guild leader. He told me to log off, go grab another app(to add to the 50 I was running) that would tell me how many feet I was standing from the nearest player. I logged off...never logged back on.


Disclaimer: This is not a personal attack, this is simply a post to correct mistakes :/

It really boggles my mind how people refer to WoW as "instant gratification" or "easy mode mmo" on these forums. The guy above...

a) is exaggerating how many addons he had installed. I raid at the highest level and use around 10.
b) recieved good advice from his guild leader that would enable him to play at a higher level
c) quit out of frustration because of the games difficulty level, I like to call this when a player reaches his/her skill cap

When a fight dynamic requires people to be spread out more then 10 yards... or the Bosses debuff can "jump" or spread to another player, it is common for some players to NOT be able to gauge what 10 yards is on their screen. Maybe you thought you were far enough away, but you actually weren't, and the debuff chained to you.. and then someone else.. and your raid failed because of it. The use of third party addons allows people to monitor certain aspects of fights, generally, the parts of the fights where one mistake = wipe. It's all part of the learning process, which can be too difficult for some people to go through.

Please refrain from telling "funny stories" about WoW, where you exaggerate your claims to blemish WoW and make FFXIV look like some sort of escape to paradise. You never know when a WoW raider might be reading the forums.

And to the OP, Horde and Alliance cannot speak to each other... so... your claim about PvPer's attacking the town... circling around you and taunting you with vulgar language is just another make believe scenario that your posting to give WoW a bad rep. If your talking about your own faction, then you probably sat there RP'n instead of fighting off the attack, and then I could see why people would be annoyed enough to call you a name.

The reality is that there are immature players and situations in EVERY game on the market. WoW has the same amount of drama as FFXIV, you can read the fansites to verify that. FFXIV is generally accepted as being an older crowd, yet there is still drama in every thread that has the game as Good vs Bad...


Way to make a baseless assumption about someone. Clearly he must be a bad player because he doesn't like being berated by fellow players over something trivial.

Oh, and you are living in a dream world if you honestly believe that WoW has the same amount of drama as ffxiv, or really any other mmo out there. I played WoW for 6 months, and in those 6 months had more confrontations than I have had in the other 8 years of my mmo gaming experience. ****, I played lotro for over a year and only met ONE PERSON I would consider an @#%^ in that time. No one is going to take your argument seriously if you are trying to compare WoW's community to any other game.

I'm not a WoW hater. In fact, I feel they did some things very well. The Dungeon Finder is truly a genius idea for gaming and the casual player. Granted it is relied on far too heavily in WoW, but the idea is stellar. The customization of classes and ability to play a class in many different ways through the skill trees was also done really well in WoW. So there are aspects of the game that I think are great, but to talk about their community in comparison to any other mmo immediately discounts your argument.

Edited, Nov 9th 2010 4:37pm by BartelX

How is that a baseless assumption? Please explain...

I play WoW
I Raid End Game
I know what addons are deemed necessary, and which are optional/personal preference
Wiping a raid because you are not prepared for the encounter is not a trivial event
Wasting peoples time does get people angry
You played WoW for 6 months, your opinion on End game raiding does not hold too much validity with me.
I'm not stating my arguement, I was correcting a post that was exaggerated and false

See what you fail to realize is that WoW has a community of 12 million players, FFXIV has what?? 200,000? Of course there will be more drama in WoW based on the numbers alone, but my point is that the percentage of confrontations of players per population is still going to be the same. For example if there is 1000 a$$holes in FFXIV, there is bound to be 60,000 a$$holes in WoW. Now when we take those numbers to a forum, you probably will see more troll/flame/bait threads on the WoW general forums. But your chances of running into one of the a$$holes in either game remains the same.
#31 Nov 09 2010 at 3:52 PM Rating: Decent
***
1,608 posts
rikkuotaku wrote:
LyleVertigo wrote:
Was there any real point anyway? XD


Don't make forum posts from your PS3.

Edited, Nov 9th 2010 4:50pm by rikkuotaku


Don't own one, don't need one.

I have PC :D
____________________________

#32 Nov 09 2010 at 3:57 PM Rating: Decent
Sage
**
534 posts
Xclusive215 wrote:
For example if there is 1000 a$$holes in FFXIV, there is bound to be 60,000 a$$holes in WoW.


FF people are more friendly than WoW. Just ask anyone who plays FF. So I would say its closer to 1 to 2 mean spirited Lalafells to about 100 or more (random toon) from WoW. Its just how it is. Us FF people are just nicer-er than most.

edit - Please lock this poor thread...its pointless.

Edited, Nov 9th 2010 5:00pm by Simool
____________________________
Amos Fin - Ultros

#33 Nov 09 2010 at 4:00 PM Rating: Decent
*
65 posts
BartelX wrote:

Good lord, you are condescending. Again you make assumptions that he is lying when you know NOTHING about him. Do you think that makes your argument look stronger? Is your logic that if you insult him enough people will think you're right? Sorry, that's not how arguments work (at least, not successful ones).
Edited, Nov 9th 2010 4:46pm by BartelX


What assumptions? I know nothing about him... your right!!!!
Know what I do know????
What he posted was false and exaggerated.
I corrected him.
That is all.

I guess you win since you keep rating my posts down to make yourself feel better about your own.

News Flash buddy!
Your never going to win an arguement when it's Fact vs Fiction. Period.
The guy did not have 50 addons installed: Fact
Raid leader told him to download a range checker: Fact
He rage quit game after that: Fact

How am I assuming anything that he himself posted??? You guys are hilarious, rate this post down too please, since you probably won't have a real answer, just another "OMFG chill out dood... your too super serious .. rate down!" smh ctfu
#34 Nov 09 2010 at 4:00 PM Rating: Good
****
6,898 posts
Xclusive215 wrote:

How is that a baseless assumption? Please explain...

I play WoW
I Raid End Game
I know what addons are deemed necessary, and which are optional/personal preference
Wiping a raid because you are not prepared for the encounter is not a trivial event
Wasting peoples time does get people angry
You played WoW for 6 months, your opinion on End game raiding does not hold too much validity with me.
I'm not stating my arguement, I was correcting a post that was exaggerated and false

See what you fail to realize is that WoW has a community of 12 million players, FFXIV has what?? 200,000? Of course there will be more drama in WoW based on the numbers alone, but my point is that the percentage of confrontations of players per population is still going to be the same. For example if there is 1000 a$$holes in FFXIV, there is bound to be 60,000 a$$holes in WoW. Now when we take those numbers to a forum, you probably will see more troll/flame/bait threads on the WoW general forums. But your chances of running into one of the a$$holes in either game remains the same.


It's a baseless assumption because you know nothing of his play style or skill level. ****, I played WoW for 6 months and was at endgame for 5 months. In that 5 months I did every single raid their is and was successful minus Lich King 25 man (never attempted). ****, we even did all of the old 60 and 70 raids for fun. They aren't difficult, and a wipe is NOT a big deal. Granted if it happens repeatedly it is, but if someone messes up once, it happens. You don't berate that individual.

So really, you can discount my views all you want, but that is just making more assumptions about people. I know a TON about WoW and while I won't go and make an assumption that I know more than you, I can guarantee you I'd give you a run for your money. I don't care if you've played since Vanilla, it doesn't mean you're magically a "better gamer" or know more than someone else. It's a very elitist attitude and that's why I called you out.
____________________________
Bartel Hayward--- Ultros Server
The Kraken Club <ZAM>
50 WAR • 50 MNK • 50 MIN • 50 GSM • 50 ARM • 50 LTW • 50 CUL • 50 WVR
thekrakenclub.shivtr.com
#35 Nov 09 2010 at 4:04 PM Rating: Decent
Sage
**
534 posts
Oh...no way...I rated you up. This is classic WoW rage...its priceless.

And yes..you are right..I did not have 50 add ons. Now..I know I tried over 50 add ons...and really didn't want to try another. So I RAGE QUIT grrrrrr hehe
____________________________
Amos Fin - Ultros

#36 Nov 09 2010 at 4:07 PM Rating: Decent
****
6,898 posts
Xclusive215 wrote:

What assumptions? I know nothing about him... your right!!!!
Know what I do know????
What he posted was false and exaggerated.
I corrected him.
That is all.

I guess you win since you keep rating my posts down to make yourself feel better about your own.

News Flash buddy!
Your never going to win an arguement when it's Fact vs Fiction. Period.
The guy did not have 50 addons installed: Fact
Raid leader told him to download a range checker: Fact
He rage quit game after that: Fact

How am I assuming anything that he himself posted??? You guys are hilarious, rate this post down too please, since you probably won't have a real answer, just another "OMFG chill out dood... your too super serious .. rate down!" smh ctfu


First off, ever considered someone else might be rating you down for being close-minded? More assumptions.

Second, you ASSUME that what he posted was false and exaggerated. I happen to disagree. I had similar experiences with him in a lot of what he posted and happen to think that what he said is entirely plausible. So right there, I just completely discounted your post of it being false or exaggerated. You don't know that. Instead of kindly pointing out that there are other facets to the game, or things that he could have done to correct the situation, you called him out as being unskilled or a liar. Those are baseless assumptions. I really can't spell it out any clearer for you.

And just to put things in perspective, when I left WoW I had 41 plugins installed. Well over half of them were just changes to the UI based on my personal preferences, but I also knew many players in my shell who had over 50. Once again, I just discredited your post.

Where did he say he rage quit? I believe he wrote:

Simool wrote:
I logged off...never logged back on.


Certainly doesn't seem like much of a rage quit to me. Literally EVERYTHING you just posted was assumptions or opinions. Perhaps next time you try and post a bunch of facts, you might want to get said facts straight first. =/

____________________________
Bartel Hayward--- Ultros Server
The Kraken Club <ZAM>
50 WAR • 50 MNK • 50 MIN • 50 GSM • 50 ARM • 50 LTW • 50 CUL • 50 WVR
thekrakenclub.shivtr.com
#37 Nov 09 2010 at 4:09 PM Rating: Good
***
1,636 posts
I definitely feel I met a proportionally similar amount of a-holes in FFXI than I did in WOW. WoW has a higher population of them due to higher population of players, and WOW had much easier means for them to communicate (forums, trade chat etc).
____________________________


#38 Nov 09 2010 at 4:09 PM Rating: Good
**
451 posts
BartelX wrote:
Xclusive215 wrote:

How is that a baseless assumption? Please explain...

I play WoW
I Raid End Game
I know what addons are deemed necessary, and which are optional/personal preference
Wiping a raid because you are not prepared for the encounter is not a trivial event
Wasting peoples time does get people angry
You played WoW for 6 months, your opinion on End game raiding does not hold too much validity with me.
I'm not stating my arguement, I was correcting a post that was exaggerated and false

See what you fail to realize is that WoW has a community of 12 million players, FFXIV has what?? 200,000? Of course there will be more drama in WoW based on the numbers alone, but my point is that the percentage of confrontations of players per population is still going to be the same. For example if there is 1000 a$$holes in FFXIV, there is bound to be 60,000 a$$holes in WoW. Now when we take those numbers to a forum, you probably will see more troll/flame/bait threads on the WoW general forums. But your chances of running into one of the a$$holes in either game remains the same.


It's a baseless assumption because you know nothing of his play style or skill level. ****, I played WoW for 6 months and was at endgame for 5 months. In that 5 months I did every single raid their is and was successful minus Lich King 25 man (never attempted). ****, we even did all of the old 60 and 70 raids for fun. They aren't difficult, and a wipe is NOT a big deal. Granted if it happens repeatedly it is, but if someone messes up once, it happens. You don't berate that individual.

So really, you can discount my views all you want, but that is just making more assumptions about people. I know a TON about WoW and while I won't go and make an assumption that I know more than you, I can guarantee you I'd give you a run for your money. I don't care if you've played since Vanilla, it doesn't mean you're magically a "better gamer" or know more than someone else. It's a very elitist attitude and that's why I called you out.


LK 25 is the only raid for level/gear atm, so you're basically saying you steam rolled a bunch of lowbie stuff and are an expert.

As far as knowing nothing about ones play style, the guy said he had like 50 addons, and apparently DBM wasn't one of them and he didn't know how to type "/range" . So I'm guessing the raid leader was ****** off about him standing too close and wiping the raid. I don't know a single high end MMO player that would be cool with some guy not standing where he's supposed to and wiping everyone.
#39 Nov 09 2010 at 4:11 PM Rating: Good
*
65 posts
Simool wrote:
Xclusive215 wrote:
For example if there is 1000 a$$holes in FFXIV, there is bound to be 60,000 a$$holes in WoW.


FF people are more friendly than WoW. Just ask anyone who plays FF. So I would say its closer to 1 to 2 mean spirited Lalafells to about 100 or more (random toon) from WoW. Its just how it is. Us FF people are just nicer-er than most.

edit - Please lock this poor thread...its pointless.

Edited, Nov 9th 2010 5:00pm by Simool


WoW now I understand why you guys are rating my posts down and replying with the intelligence of a young adolescent. Because more then likely thats what you are.

Do you know what a "Law of Average" is??? How about "Probability"??? Hmm maybe "Rational Thinking" or even the good old "Common Sense"????

Do you really believe.. no wait, are you really that ignorant, that you believe that FFXIV and WoW players are so different that they think exactly opposite of each other?

Let's just say that both FFXIV and WoW are video games, both set in a virtual world, where a player controls a character in a fantasy setting. See where I am going? Same entertainment market.... same genre.... same types of people as far as general interests go. Regardless of what the title of the MMO is, EQ, Lineage, LotR, AoC, WoW, FFXIV, there is going to be the good, bad, and ugly. To be so narrow minded to imply that FFXIV does not, is just.. well.. amusing to say the least.

#40 Nov 09 2010 at 4:13 PM Rating: Good
*
100 posts
Quote:
See what you fail to realize is that WoW has a community of 12 million players, FFXIV has what?? 200,000? Of course there will be more drama in WoW based on the numbers alone, but my point is that the percentage of confrontations of players per population is still going to be the same. For example if there is 1000 a$$holes in FFXIV, there is bound to be 60,000 a$$holes in WoW. Now when we take those numbers to a forum, you probably will see more troll/flame/bait threads on the WoW general forums. But your chances of running into one of the a$$holes in either game remains the same.
You can't take a random sample from two different populations and assume that you end up with the same frequency of any particular behavior.

The dungeon finder tool and cross server grouping, coupled with how easy it is to level alts to max level or name change/server transfer, has led to near collapse of the social system in WoW. There is almost no accountability because server rep means next to nothing. Once you find a good group of people to play with it's a great game, but it can be hard to do.

It's an old argument but it's true. In FF games you are more closely tied to one character because you can level all classes on one character and it's a significantly longer grind to the level cap. If you mess up your reputation, it's likely to follow you around.
____________________________
Homer no function beer well without.
#41 Nov 09 2010 at 4:15 PM Rating: Decent
****
6,898 posts
KristoFurwalken wrote:
BartelX wrote:
Xclusive215 wrote:

How is that a baseless assumption? Please explain...

I play WoW
I Raid End Game
I know what addons are deemed necessary, and which are optional/personal preference
Wiping a raid because you are not prepared for the encounter is not a trivial event
Wasting peoples time does get people angry
You played WoW for 6 months, your opinion on End game raiding does not hold too much validity with me.
I'm not stating my arguement, I was correcting a post that was exaggerated and false

See what you fail to realize is that WoW has a community of 12 million players, FFXIV has what?? 200,000? Of course there will be more drama in WoW based on the numbers alone, but my point is that the percentage of confrontations of players per population is still going to be the same. For example if there is 1000 a$$holes in FFXIV, there is bound to be 60,000 a$$holes in WoW. Now when we take those numbers to a forum, you probably will see more troll/flame/bait threads on the WoW general forums. But your chances of running into one of the a$$holes in either game remains the same.


It's a baseless assumption because you know nothing of his play style or skill level. ****, I played WoW for 6 months and was at endgame for 5 months. In that 5 months I did every single raid their is and was successful minus Lich King 25 man (never attempted). ****, we even did all of the old 60 and 70 raids for fun. They aren't difficult, and a wipe is NOT a big deal. Granted if it happens repeatedly it is, but if someone messes up once, it happens. You don't berate that individual.

So really, you can discount my views all you want, but that is just making more assumptions about people. I know a TON about WoW and while I won't go and make an assumption that I know more than you, I can guarantee you I'd give you a run for your money. I don't care if you've played since Vanilla, it doesn't mean you're magically a "better gamer" or know more than someone else. It's a very elitist attitude and that's why I called you out.


LK 25 is the only raid for level/gear atm, so you're basically saying you steam rolled a bunch of lowbie stuff and are an expert.

As far as knowing nothing about ones play style, the guy said he had like 50 addons, and apparently DBM wasn't one of them and he didn't know how to type "/range" . So I'm guessing the raid leader was ****** off about him standing too close and wiping the raid. I don't know a single high end MMO player that would be cool with some guy not standing where he's supposed to and wiping everyone.


I started playing last december when Lich King was still new and 10 man Lich King was difficult. It was also before they added in 2 more tiers of gear. Sorry I didn't stay long enough to do the apparently 1 meaningful raid now. Like I said, 1 wipe isn't a big deal. Heck, if you want to play with someone who is going to flip out over being in the wrong spot 1 time, that's your call. Personally, I'd probably have quit too. I play games to have fun and kill ****, not get yelled at if I mess up once.
____________________________
Bartel Hayward--- Ultros Server
The Kraken Club <ZAM>
50 WAR • 50 MNK • 50 MIN • 50 GSM • 50 ARM • 50 LTW • 50 CUL • 50 WVR
thekrakenclub.shivtr.com
#42 Nov 09 2010 at 4:18 PM Rating: Decent
Sage
**
534 posts
Hey now...I never said was causing wipes. You guys are making my little story more lively than what it really was.

A mean dude told me to do something I didn't want to do so I logged off. I had been thinking about quitting for a few weeks and that was as good a time as any.

And no...I'm not rating anyone down because this whole thread is kinda stupid.
____________________________
Amos Fin - Ultros

#43 Nov 09 2010 at 4:22 PM Rating: Default
****
6,898 posts
Xclusive215 wrote:
Simool wrote:
Xclusive215 wrote:
For example if there is 1000 a$$holes in FFXIV, there is bound to be 60,000 a$$holes in WoW.


FF people are more friendly than WoW. Just ask anyone who plays FF. So I would say its closer to 1 to 2 mean spirited Lalafells to about 100 or more (random toon) from WoW. Its just how it is. Us FF people are just nicer-er than most.

edit - Please lock this poor thread...its pointless.

Edited, Nov 9th 2010 5:00pm by Simool


WoW now I understand why you guys are rating my posts down and replying with the intelligence of a young adolescent. Because more then likely thats what you are.

Do you know what a "Law of Average" is??? How about "Probability"??? Hmm maybe "Rational Thinking" or even the good old "Common Sense"????

Do you really believe.. no wait, are you really that ignorant, that you believe that FFXIV and WoW players are so different that they think exactly opposite of each other?

Let's just say that both FFXIV and WoW are video games, both set in a virtual world, where a player controls a character in a fantasy setting. See where I am going? Same entertainment market.... same genre.... same types of people as far as general interests go. Regardless of what the title of the MMO is, EQ, Lineage, LotR, AoC, WoW, FFXIV, there is going to be the good, bad, and ugly. To be so narrow minded to imply that FFXIV does not, is just.. well.. amusing to say the least.



I'm actually 28, but thanks for making more assumptions. Also, I'm not the one who is calling people liars and unskilled players.

No one has implied that ffxiv has no bad players. All games do. However, when you have a game that has 12 million players, a good portion of which are adolescents due to the fact that the game is marketed TOWARDS them (I mean Mr. T? Come on), you are going to see a less likable community. Law of Averages or Probability have absolutely no bearing on this argument because they don't matter. The whole point is that WoW's community sucks BECAUSE it has such a large player-base and markets towards adolescents. Numbers are meaningless. It is far easier to run across an asshat in WoW than in any other game. Period.
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#44 Nov 09 2010 at 4:24 PM Rating: Decent
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451 posts
BartelX wrote:
KristoFurwalken wrote:
BartelX wrote:
Xclusive215 wrote:

How is that a baseless assumption? Please explain...

I play WoW
I Raid End Game
I know what addons are deemed necessary, and which are optional/personal preference
Wiping a raid because you are not prepared for the encounter is not a trivial event
Wasting peoples time does get people angry
You played WoW for 6 months, your opinion on End game raiding does not hold too much validity with me.
I'm not stating my arguement, I was correcting a post that was exaggerated and false

See what you fail to realize is that WoW has a community of 12 million players, FFXIV has what?? 200,000? Of course there will be more drama in WoW based on the numbers alone, but my point is that the percentage of confrontations of players per population is still going to be the same. For example if there is 1000 a$$holes in FFXIV, there is bound to be 60,000 a$$holes in WoW. Now when we take those numbers to a forum, you probably will see more troll/flame/bait threads on the WoW general forums. But your chances of running into one of the a$$holes in either game remains the same.


It's a baseless assumption because you know nothing of his play style or skill level. ****, I played WoW for 6 months and was at endgame for 5 months. In that 5 months I did every single raid their is and was successful minus Lich King 25 man (never attempted). ****, we even did all of the old 60 and 70 raids for fun. They aren't difficult, and a wipe is NOT a big deal. Granted if it happens repeatedly it is, but if someone messes up once, it happens. You don't berate that individual.

So really, you can discount my views all you want, but that is just making more assumptions about people. I know a TON about WoW and while I won't go and make an assumption that I know more than you, I can guarantee you I'd give you a run for your money. I don't care if you've played since Vanilla, it doesn't mean you're magically a "better gamer" or know more than someone else. It's a very elitist attitude and that's why I called you out.


LK 25 is the only raid for level/gear atm, so you're basically saying you steam rolled a bunch of lowbie stuff and are an expert.

As far as knowing nothing about ones play style, the guy said he had like 50 addons, and apparently DBM wasn't one of them and he didn't know how to type "/range" . So I'm guessing the raid leader was ****** off about him standing too close and wiping the raid. I don't know a single high end MMO player that would be cool with some guy not standing where he's supposed to and wiping everyone.


I started playing last december when Lich King was still new and 10 man Lich King was difficult. It was also before they added in 2 more tiers of gear. Sorry I didn't stay long enough to do the apparently 1 meaningful raid now. Like I said, 1 wipe isn't a big deal. Heck, if you want to play with someone who is going to flip out over being in the wrong spot 1 time, that's your call. Personally, I'd probably have quit too. I play games to have fun and kill sh*t, not get yelled at if I mess up once.



Ya I agree that some A-hole flipping out over 1 person making a mistake is pretty lame. But, theres about 2 or 3 mandatory addons for raiders. And a guy goes through the trouble of installing 50 of them, and leaves out the main one, DBM, I doubt it was a case of him messing up once. I've heard plenty of FF LS leaders ******** out people for missing AA chain, or getting the alliance cleaved. A-hole raid leaders aren't exclusive to WoW.


edit*
I'm not like defending WoW or anytihng, I kinda hate it, but some of you guys act like FF players are somehow the divine chosen ones, and anyone that plays WoW is a pet rapist.



Edited, Nov 9th 2010 5:35pm by KristoFurwalken
#45 Nov 09 2010 at 4:26 PM Rating: Decent
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228 posts
Xclusive215 wrote:
Simool wrote:

I have a interesting story about why I left WOW. I played for about 6 months(made it to endgame in 3 weeks), and was in a pretty good raiding guild. We did weekly 10 and 25 raids and knew what we were doing. But it felt like I was in the military or something. It was fun for about a week then it became a daily pressure to just log in. One day I was out of position according to a guild leader. He told me to log off, go grab another app(to add to the 50 I was running) that would tell me how many feet I was standing from the nearest player. I logged off...never logged back on.


Disclaimer: This is not a personal attack, this is simply a post to correct mistakes :/

It really boggles my mind how people refer to WoW as "instant gratification" or "easy mode mmo" on these forums. The guy above...

a) is exaggerating how many addons he had installed. I raid at the highest level and use around 10.
b) recieved good advice from his guild leader that would enable him to play at a higher level
c) quit out of frustration because of the games difficulty level, I like to call this when a player reaches his/her skill cap

When a fight dynamic requires people to be spread out more then 10 yards... or the Bosses debuff can "jump" or spread to another player, it is common for some players to NOT be able to gauge what 10 yards is on their screen. Maybe you thought you were far enough away, but you actually weren't, and the debuff chained to you.. and then someone else.. and your raid failed because of it. The use of third party addons allows people to monitor certain aspects of fights, generally, the parts of the fights where one mistake = wipe. It's all part of the learning process, which can be too difficult for some people to go through.

Please refrain from telling "funny stories" about WoW, where you exaggerate your claims to blemish WoW and make FFXIV look like some sort of escape to paradise. You never know when a WoW raider might be reading the forums.

And to the OP, Horde and Alliance cannot speak to each other... so... your claim about PvPer's attacking the town... circling around you and taunting you with vulgar language is just another make believe scenario that your posting to give WoW a bad rep. If your talking about your own faction, then you probably sat there RP'n instead of fighting off the attack, and then I could see why people would be annoyed enough to call you a name.

The reality is that there are immature players and situations in EVERY game on the market. WoW has the same amount of drama as FFXIV, you can read the fansites to verify that. FFXIV is generally accepted as being an older crowd, yet there is still drama in every thread that has the game as Good vs Bad...




Quoted for truth. I really really disliked WoW's community as whole, but to generalize and exaggerate to make it seem worse then it is, is just petty to me. What I'd like to know, is why the people that keep reminding us that XIV is"only a couple months old", never ask why things are the way they are when SE had so many other successful products to look to for help and inspiration. It just seems to me that the FFXIV launch should have been better then FFXI because of their experiance with FFXI and their ability to watch what other companies have been doing over the course of XIV's development.
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Pikko wrote:
Quote:
sideways wrote: (really Pikko?)

Oh go stuff that thread up your ***. Did you even READ that post?
[...]
I mean, excuuuuse me for trying to make people PLAY NICE.


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#46 Nov 09 2010 at 4:33 PM Rating: Good
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6,898 posts
KristoFurwalken wrote:

Ya I agree that some A-hole flipping out over 1 person making a mistake is pretty lame. But, theres about 2 or 3 mandatory addons for raiders. And a guy goes through the trouble of intalling 50 of them, and leaves out the main one, DBM, I doubt it was a case of him messing up once. I've heard plenty of FF LS leaders ******** out people for missing AA chain, or getting the alliance cleaved. A-hole raid leaders aren't exclusive to WoW.


edit*
I'm not like defending WoW or anytihng, I kinda hate it, but some of you guys act like FF players are somehow the divine chosen ones, and anyone that plays WoW is a pet rapist.


I do see your point. And while I agree that DBM seems pretty mandatory, I know that I didn't have it for a good amount of time until someone pointed it out for me. However had that person flipped out over me being in the wrong spot I wouldn't have stood for it. Personally, I would have just made fun of him until he cried (it's my style), but quitting was definitely a viable option if it ruined my enjoyment of the game, which jerks like that usually do.



Edited, Nov 9th 2010 5:34pm by BartelX
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#47 Nov 09 2010 at 4:36 PM Rating: Decent
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315 posts
on my bros laptop.
first off i am a woman, 25 yeaars old. The point of the thread was to remind ppl the purpose of mmo, aspects they forgot in an mmo, and remind them how ffxiv started.

players used to be patient when it came to just released mmo. Nowe they don't no matter what country. Being snarky about my post drailing it to make it WoW hate is kinda dumb. Please go back to the real topic.

its easy to see what I said. People wanyt updates now forgetting it takes time to do them.

Like to the guy who fail a leve, maybe you could got some friends or shout for a group. Just be open to meeting new people.

please don't use this topic to flame or defend wow.

also I want and hoping ppl talk about ffxiv in a positive like. All game is flaws @ release ffxiv got some nasty one being fixed. But other then the flaws i feel it will be a good game. Reguardless if I play or not,it don;t take playing to understand how bad this game launch was.
But all in all this game was rough coming out which may have lead to some game issues.
:) No sense becoming bitter over a video game or ruing other peoples posts over liking the game.
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#48 Nov 09 2010 at 4:41 PM Rating: Excellent
Let's keep things civil, folks, and not turn this into a "WoW thing".
#49 Nov 09 2010 at 4:44 PM Rating: Decent
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80 posts
Irishclass777 wrote:
on my bros laptop.
first off i am a woman, 25 yeaars old. The point of the thread was to remind ppl the purpose of mmo, aspects they forgot in an mmo, and remind them how ffxiv started.

players used to be patient when it came to just released mmo. Nowe they don't no matter what country. Being snarky about my post drailing it to make it WoW hate is kinda dumb. Please go back to the real topic.

its easy to see what I said. People wanyt updates now forgetting it takes time to do them.

Like to the guy who fail a leve, maybe you could got some friends or shout for a group. Just be open to meeting new people.

please don't use this topic to flame or defend wow.

also I want and hoping ppl talk about ffxiv in a positive like. All game is flaws @ release ffxiv got some nasty one being fixed. But other then the flaws i feel it will be a good game. Reguardless if I play or not,it don;t take playing to understand how bad this game launch was.
But all in all this game was rough coming out which may have lead to some game issues.
:) No sense becoming bitter over a video game or ruing other peoples posts over liking the game.


The problem here is there is simply no excuse for the game to have been released in its current state - not in this day and age. Especially when this is SE's 2nd MMORPG. You're right though, players used to have more patience. However, that was in an era when MMORPGs were a tiny niche market that wasn't severely over-saturated. Think of it from a general consumer's perspective: why should I have patience and wait for bug fixes to critical parts of this game when there are countless other polished MMORPGs all competing for my money? This point of view wasn't available when FFXI first launched as the only true alternatives were Ultima Online and Everquest.

Also, while I'm sure a lot of things will be fixed in the near future, I'm having a hard time believing that FFXIV will ever be anything more than a small niche game for Final Fantasy diehards as there are some very fundamental problems related to the engine that the entire game is built upon. That's not something that you can simply "patch" - it's something that would require the game to be rebuilt entirely from the ground up.

Edited, Nov 9th 2010 5:45pm by Numnaydar
#50 Nov 09 2010 at 5:05 PM Rating: Decent
**
315 posts
Numnaydar wrote:
Irishclass777 wrote:
on my bros laptop.
first off i am a woman, 25 yeaars old. The point of the thread was to remind ppl the purpose of mmo, aspects they forgot in an mmo, and remind them how ffxiv started.

players used to be patient when it came to just released mmo. Nowe they don't no matter what country. Being snarky about my post drailing it to make it WoW hate is kinda dumb. Please go back to the real topic.

its easy to see what I said. People wanyt updates now forgetting it takes time to do them.

Like to the guy who fail a leve, maybe you could got some friends or shout for a group. Just be open to meeting new people.

please don't use this topic to flame or defend wow.

also I want and hoping ppl talk about ffxiv in a positive like. All game is flaws @ release ffxiv got some nasty one being fixed. But other then the flaws i feel it will be a good game. Reguardless if I play or not,it don;t take playing to understand how bad this game launch was.
But all in all this game was rough coming out which may have lead to some game issues.
:) No sense becoming bitter over a video game or ruing other peoples posts over liking the game.


The problem here is there is simply no excuse for the game to have been released in its current state - not in this day and age. Especially when this is SE's 2nd MMORPG. You're right though, players used to have more patience. However, that was in an era when MMORPGs were a tiny niche market that wasn't severely over-saturated. Think of it from a general consumer's perspective: why should I have patience and wait for bug fixes to critical parts of this game when there are countless other polished MMORPGs all competing for my money? This point of view wasn't available when FFXI first launched as the only true alternatives were Ultima Online and Everquest.

Also, while I'm sure a lot of things will be fixed in the near future, I'm having a hard time believing that FFXIV will ever be anything more than a small niche game for Final Fantasy diehards as there are some very fundamental problems related to the engine that the entire game is built upon. That's not something that you can simply "patch" - it's something that would require the game to be rebuilt entirely from the ground up.

Edited, Nov 9th 2010 5:45pm by Numnaydar

there was alot more mmo around in that time then ppl realise. Most were f2p. But nothing changed much since the mmo boom. More mmo are released all are different all had issues all issues are fixed with patches. And I seen game ui and icons get redesigned and patched into the game. Not saying SE got excuses just thats something people forgot. We don't know what SE is doing, what happen alpha/beta @ SE end. But stuff did happen.
I played several mmo, And i still would play ffxiv over more "polished mmo". Mostly because I klnow from experiance ffxiv will be patched. As a consuumer you gotta deal with glitches. Like errors on comcast. Low bars on cells. Glitches in mmo. Nothing is perfect. Asking for such is folly. :)
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