Forum Settings
       
This Forum is Read Only

Is it time for a change at SE Follow

#1 Nov 09 2010 at 9:22 AM Rating: Decent
*
111 posts


IMO it is time for CEO Yoichi Wada to step down and let someone else take the leadership role at SE. His constant failures at SE with lackluster games and huge failure with XIV has been a testment that SE is on its way to tarnishing the company we are so loyal to.SE is on its way to the bottom and maybe bought out if something is not done

Why not let someone from NA take the Lead on XIV which might be able to save a lack luster game.Someone who is up to date with current MMO Trends and what players want from a MMO in the coming months and years. It is easy to see that Wada is out of touch with his fan base and what a MMO in the current age and days should be. This is not FF11 day and age where there where 2 maybe three mmos where out there and the platform was new. This game should of been a powerhouse from the start with all the experience that SE has from its previous history.Agree with me or not the statement is true there are fundmental flaws that might not be able to be overcome in XIV that have to due with the foundation of the game and not just a quick fix or patch.Yes it might make the game a little but more playable but when i play the game i just feel like this game is 5years to late for all ui,party system,game play , that other mmo's have now and even will be even better after the next round of MMOs to come out next year.

Save XIV SE I beg you let Wada go and bring in a young talent to carry on the high standards we are all aware of and expect from Square Enix.

(LET THE BASHES ON THIS BEGIN I KNOW NO ONE WILL AGREE WITH ME BUT IT HAS TO BE SAID)
#2 Nov 09 2010 at 9:44 AM Rating: Good
40 posts
I don't think anyone in NA should be in control of XIV. We'll end up with football shoulder pads and other WoW type grossness.
____________________________
FFXIV - Rabanastre - Fisherman
FFXI - Leviathan - 75 Beastmaster /37 NIN/40 THF/40 BLU
#3 Nov 09 2010 at 9:49 AM Rating: Decent
***
1,408 posts
antshock30 wrote:


(LET THE BASHES ON THIS BEGIN I KNOW NO ONE WILL AGREE WITH ME BUT IT HAS TO BE SAID)


It has been said, over and over again.
____________________________


If my velocity starts to make you sweat, then just don't
let go
#4 Nov 09 2010 at 10:04 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
***
3,835 posts
I'm curious if this is the guy that destroyed the direction FF11 was taking.

I was just thinking about this yesterday: while I don't hate FFXIV nearly as much as some players have, I can't help but think that a lot of its problems remind me a LOT of late-generation FF11: the clunkiness, the obtuse approach to player feedback, the implementation of 'features' that feel as if no developer ever actually tried to use it himself. The passion and attention to gameplay detail that made early FFXI stand out just isn't there; the game itself is beautiful but not as well made.

The current game feels to me like SE finally gets to rump-ride its players as we'd have never tolerated in FFXI, like they've thrown out everything that made that game awesome in favor of what made Aht Urghan-era FFXI not as good.

If this is the guy responsible, I entirely agree. New blood is needed. I wanted something like that early FFXI experience again, and instead I sorta feel like I just bought Aht Urghan: the MMO.
____________________________
~Kublakhan~
Taru career Beastmaster, Bismarck server

Facekey, local gilseller wrote:
THANK KUBLAHA HP++



#5 Nov 09 2010 at 10:09 AM Rating: Excellent
Anterograde Amnesia
Avatar
*****
12,363 posts
Sioux wrote:
I'm curious if this is the guy that destroyed the direction FF11 was taking.

I was just thinking about this yesterday: while I don't hate FFXIV nearly as much as some players have, I can't help but think that a lot of its problems remind me a LOT of late-generation FF11: the clunkiness, the obtuse approach to player feedback, the implementation of 'features' that feel as if no developer ever actually tried to use it himself. The passion and attention to gameplay detail that made early FFXI stand out just isn't there; the game itself is beautiful but not as well made.

The current game feels to me like SE finally gets to rump-ride its players as we'd have never tolerated in FFXI, like they've thrown out everything that made that game awesome in favor of what made Aht Urghan-era FFXI not as good.

If this is the guy responsible, I entirely agree. New blood is needed. I wanted something like that early FFXI experience again, and instead I sorta feel like I just bought Aht Urghan: the MMO.


Good to see you Sioux, been a long time Smiley: thumbsup
____________________________
"Choosy MMO's choose Wint." - Louiscool
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the world he didn't exist.
Keyser Soze - Ultros
Guide to Setting Up Mumble on a Raspberry Pi
#6 Nov 09 2010 at 10:42 AM Rating: Default
OFF WITH HIS HEAD!!!
#7 Nov 09 2010 at 10:44 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
***
3,835 posts
Wint wrote:
Good to see you Sioux, been a long time


WINT!

It's good to see you too, it's been too long. ^^ It's good to be back.
____________________________
~Kublakhan~
Taru career Beastmaster, Bismarck server

Facekey, local gilseller wrote:
THANK KUBLAHA HP++



#8 Nov 09 2010 at 10:54 AM Rating: Decent
*
174 posts
Oh wow thank you for posting this, I genuingly hadn't heard any of this several hundred times before.

So many of your points are mute.

Party system is fantastic, the fact you can set a party for a specific range and people can join from any contient without an invite is amazing. it's not the system that sucks is the fact that no one, sorry no one other than a few JP and a handful of us on Melmond are using it. **** it isn't even complicated to work out.

Yes the game was released early and unfinished, no one is denying that/ But I would take the game how it is in it's current form anyday, over having to wait 6 months when it is more polished.

P.S are you really that naive to think posting a thread on a fan forum is going to have any leverage on the CEO of a company standing down. Maybe if you are that passionate about getting this dude fired, you would have more sucess writing to their bord of directors and major stakeholders. All of this can be backed up with falling revenue figures for the time the current CEO has been there.

I guess my main reply to these types of threads is, why is change so bad. Just because the game isn;t a clone of the other hundred MMo out there and has introduced some new concepts it is sent to the dogs. yes the retainer system sucks as it currently is, but when it can be searched it will be much better. New content is coming/ personally I love the SP gain system, it takes me back to my UO days. I do not care that I do not earn SP from every mob or from every hit, I can still earn between 15K and 20K sp an hour given the right PT set up which is ALL I care about. how much SP an hour is possible, not ZOMG I got 0 from that mob

Honestly, what are you hoping to achieve with this thread, you really think it is going to go anywhere constructive?

Personally I love the asian take on MMOs and have hated anything western produced. Oh look - there is a winning formula, lets clone it and milk the crap out of it. This is also not a grind fest compared to some it is a real cake walk lol.

Edited, Nov 9th 2010 11:59am by MisterGaribaldi

Edited, Nov 9th 2010 12:04pm by MisterGaribaldi
____________________________


#9 Nov 09 2010 at 10:55 AM Rating: Excellent
Sage
Avatar
*
197 posts
DilemmaLevi wrote:
I don't think anyone in NA should be in control of XIV. We'll end up with football shoulder pads and other WoW type grossness.


This made me chuckle :P
Yeah.... no shoulder pads please, or exagerated pointy mech-style armour either for that matter :x
#10 Nov 09 2010 at 11:18 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
1,842 posts
SE has been in decline in geveral for the past several years. I think a huge problem is the decline in JPN game development and companies scrambling to stay relevant in the world gaming market. SE in general has been trying to make games that appeal to westerners for some time now but fall flat. They stopped making game that were fun to the developers with someone in the background saying "Make it more appealing to the western market." In stark contrast Western developer are just making games that are fun to them and not worry about what the eastern market wants.

As far as Final Fantasy, I think the series has gone down hill ever since Sakaguchi left Square. The last game he had any involvment with SE was FFXI. Sure his title with mistwalker weren't the greatest but he made the games his fans wanted and didn't worry so much about mass appeal. That is how developers should be making games and that is how they should have made FFXIV.
____________________________
FFXIV Dyvid (Awaiting 2.0)
FFXI Dyvid ~ Pandemonium (Retired)
SWTOR Dy'vid Legacy - Canderous Ordo
#11 Nov 09 2010 at 11:25 AM Rating: Default
*
111 posts
This might be the best post I have ever read on Zam. I am so glad you posted this because i just read an article in game informer about the Japan game show being a joke and this is lead to a rash of bad dev of games and on gamespot i read how Japan companies are far behind the curve when it comes to dev any type of videogame right now.Next I can't say enough about your second point when Sakaguchi left Se. He was and is one of the best dev of his time and is Final Fantasy to me.

Bring him back or someone else to replace this other yada guy!

thanks Dvyidd for the great post.
#12 Nov 09 2010 at 12:21 PM Rating: Excellent
Anterograde Amnesia
Avatar
*****
12,363 posts
dyvidd wrote:
SE has been in decline in geveral for the past several years. I think a huge problem is the decline in JPN game development and companies scrambling to stay relevant in the world gaming market. SE in general has been trying to make games that appeal to westerners for some time now but fall flat. They stopped making game that were fun to the developers with someone in the background saying "Make it more appealing to the western market." In stark contrast Western developer are just making games that are fun to them and not worry about what the eastern market wants.

As far as Final Fantasy, I think the series has gone down hill ever since Sakaguchi left Square. The last game he had any involvment with SE was FFXI. Sure his title with mistwalker weren't the greatest but he made the games his fans wanted and didn't worry so much about mass appeal. That is how developers should be making games and that is how they should have made FFXIV.


I agree with this to some extent, but at what point do you stop trying to do something new and stifle all innovation? When you have a fanbase like the one that exists for Final Fantasy, how do you re-conciliate all of the various opinions on what makes a good Final Fantasy?

I also think SE gets a bad rap with the press at times, people crapped all over Nier but I just picked it up last weekend and I love it. It's a nice mix of action and RPG and I think it was executed well (I've only put about 10-15 hours into it however).
____________________________
"Choosy MMO's choose Wint." - Louiscool
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the world he didn't exist.
Keyser Soze - Ultros
Guide to Setting Up Mumble on a Raspberry Pi
#13 Nov 09 2010 at 12:34 PM Rating: Decent
***
1,636 posts
I would rather see SE get a more diverse development staff, and new development leads. I don't blame the CEO for developers releasing a poorly designed project, but I can blame him for letting them head something new.
____________________________


#14 Nov 09 2010 at 12:37 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
437 posts
we should be unified in calling for wada to be sacked. Clearly clueless

but dont go to NA. I want Hironobu Sakaguchi back :(
____________________________

Metin - Phoenix - BLM75 WHM48 Retired

http://cojenova.enjin.com/ff14forum

#15 Nov 09 2010 at 12:37 PM Rating: Decent
*
111 posts
Wint,

If this was a great or even good MMO we would not have time for other games,but I am with you know i have been playing starcraft2 until all of the bugs are worked out of XIV or they just go another direction.

PS Starcraft is actually a pretty **** good game never played the first!
#16 Nov 09 2010 at 12:38 PM Rating: Excellent
Anterograde Amnesia
Avatar
*****
12,363 posts
I have a feeling a shakeup is in order. Several of their recent games have bombed, Nier, FFXIII, FFXIV, Front Mission, Kane and Lynch, etc. These are critical reviews mind you, I've played and enjoy the first 3, never tried the last two.
____________________________
"Choosy MMO's choose Wint." - Louiscool
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the world he didn't exist.
Keyser Soze - Ultros
Guide to Setting Up Mumble on a Raspberry Pi
#17 Nov 09 2010 at 12:42 PM Rating: Excellent
***
2,824 posts
Quote:
So many of your points are mute.


Moot. FFS it's moot.
#18 Nov 09 2010 at 12:45 PM Rating: Good
Sage
***
1,675 posts
I was thinking about this last night.

Now FFXIV in the grand scheme of things isn't very important. SE isn't Bear Sterns and FFXIV isn't a great depression pt.2 sort of situation.

However, when things go wrong in most companies, people are let go, or have to step down if they don't perform. I don't know the degrees by which SE is failing but I for one would love to see some changes made. And in the end I'd love to see a complete re-tooling in all aspects of SE.

I'd love to see the current team for FFXI take over FFXIV. And more broadly I'd like to see the Final Fantasy franchise be rethought and re-imagined under a smaller or gasp even shared with an American developer. It would be awesome for FF to have mainstreamed controls and UIs we're accustomed to here in the west, but with the art direction and story of the old FFs.

Given that SE has put it's hands in an increasing number of pots throughout the years (mobile, console, PC) I think it's time they took a few steps back and started concentrating on making a good game rather than making the most money. And if that means console or PC exclusivity, so be it.

#19 Nov 09 2010 at 12:46 PM Rating: Good
***
3,177 posts
Keep the graphics team, reform everything else.
____________________________
Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn
Grover Eyeveen - Hyperion Server
Viva Eorzea Free Company/Linkshell Leader - Hyperion Server

Aegis Server (2012-2013)
Figaro Server (2010-2012)

Final Fantasy XI:
Retired

Blog
#20 Nov 09 2010 at 1:01 PM Rating: Decent
*
178 posts
Of all the blame games that have been tossed around the last few months this one shoots right for the top! lol
The CEO of SE?! really?! Isn't that going a bit overboard..

but this thread just boils down to another complaint thread voicing the same things that have been voiced over a thousand times. Why not just pick some random thread and continue the pointless debates there?
#21 Nov 09 2010 at 1:05 PM Rating: Decent
***
1,636 posts
UltKnightGrover wrote:
Keep the graphics team, reform everything else.


Heh, even the graphics team built something that barely runs on the PS3, which is in some people's opinion the "primary medium" the game was to be released onto.
____________________________


#22 Nov 09 2010 at 1:09 PM Rating: Decent
**
451 posts
lightacadi wrote:
Of all the blame games that have been tossed around the last few months this one shoots right for the top! lol
The CEO of SE?! really?! Isn't that going a bit overboard..

but this thread just boils down to another complaint thread voicing the same things that have been voiced over a thousand times. Why not just pick some random thread and continue the pointless debates there?


I don't think it's going overboard at all. He's the hnic and he is going to be the one taking blame for what the company has done over the last several years.
#23 Nov 09 2010 at 1:13 PM Rating: Decent
*
111 posts
Lightacadi

Who should take the blame if not the CEO for XIV mess?He should of picked up a copy and played his own game which he did not,and who ever was giving him updates on the game was not doing a very good job.This was to be the flagship of SE and it is now a blackeye of the company which earnings and a drop in population state. Now he is just throwing out f2p or whatever he can do to save face come on,whatever the reason the buck or yen stops with him now let him resign and have someone else with more of a pulse and abilty to control his dev and regonize what his loyal fans want. but you are are allowed to your opinion
#24 Nov 09 2010 at 1:27 PM Rating: Decent
*
178 posts
antshock30 wrote:
Lightacadi

Who should take the blame if not the CEO for XIV mess?He should of picked up a copy and played his own game which he did not,and who ever was giving him updates on the game was not doing a very good job.This was to be the flagship of SE and it is now a blackeye of the company which earnings and a drop in population state. Now he is just throwing out f2p or whatever he can do to save face come on,whatever the reason the buck or yen stops with him now let him resign and have someone else with more of a pulse and abilty to control his dev and regonize what his loyal fans want. but you are are allowed to your opinion


Even if the CEO picked up a copy of the game and played it, do you really think he would've scrapped the project? Common, a game that the company has invested millions into is not just gonna roll over because the CEO was dissatisfied. He has pressure to launch the game no matter how bad it is otherwise the shareholders woudl've been very upset, and the stocks would've tanked regardless. Anyways, the point is completely moot.. you can blame anyone you want - the media and fans for hyping the game up, the design team, the program leads, etc etc - and it won't mean much. I was just simply pointing out that it was comical to single out a single person, no matter what position he holds in the company over the problems in the game. And how this thread should've just been another topic in one of the many complaint threads already out there =P
#25 Nov 09 2010 at 1:40 PM Rating: Excellent
KristoFurwalken wrote:
lightacadi wrote:
Of all the blame games that have been tossed around the last few months this one shoots right for the top! lol
The CEO of SE?! really?! Isn't that going a bit overboard..

but this thread just boils down to another complaint thread voicing the same things that have been voiced over a thousand times. Why not just pick some random thread and continue the pointless debates there?


I don't think it's going overboard at all. He's the hnic and he is going to be the one taking blame for what the company has done over the last several years.


I was thinking of this with exactly the same term running around my head lol. The way I see it with the big paycheck comes big responsiblity and accountability, which includes being responsible for the ppl on his team. If a man hands a chimp a pistol and the chimp shoots someone, who do you blame? The chimp or the man who gave him the pistol?
#26 Nov 09 2010 at 1:53 PM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
**
531 posts
I don't really know much on what acts will help or change things for SE, all I know is I want changes implemented soon in FFXIV so I can enjoy the game as much as FFXI.
____________________________






#27 Nov 09 2010 at 1:58 PM Rating: Default
*
111 posts
this post rocks chimp lmao


I was thinking of this with exactly the same term running around my head lol. The way I see it with the big paycheck comes big responsiblity and accountability, which includes being responsible for the ppl on his team. If a man hands a chimp a pistol and the chimp shoots someone, who do you blame? The chimp or the man who gave him the pistol?
----------------------------


thanks Glorious !
#28 Nov 09 2010 at 2:16 PM Rating: Decent
*
174 posts
baelnic wrote:
Quote:
So many of your points are mute.


Moot. FFS it's moot.


Am you grammar letting we down!!

No sorry you are right,I have Trumpet on the brain, exam tomorrow lol :p
____________________________


#29 Nov 09 2010 at 3:47 PM Rating: Decent
**
347 posts
A bit off topic, for those who say Nier is crap... did you even play past the first ending???
____________________________
Flamealchemist
Bard 75, Thf 75 Smn 75 Blm 75, Whm 60, War 30, Nin 40 Drk 6, Rdm 6.
Race: Hume
Nation: Bastok
Rank: 10
Server: Gilgamesh
Craft: Cooking 100, Alemchy 60 Clothcraft 54, Goldsmith 25, Blacksmith 17, Fishing 22, Bonecraft 6.
#30LyleVertigo, Posted: Nov 09 2010 at 3:56 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Be careful when you beg for change, you might just get it lol
#31 Nov 09 2010 at 3:56 PM Rating: Decent
**
347 posts
double post

Edited, Nov 9th 2010 4:57pm by xellosalpha
____________________________
Flamealchemist
Bard 75, Thf 75 Smn 75 Blm 75, Whm 60, War 30, Nin 40 Drk 6, Rdm 6.
Race: Hume
Nation: Bastok
Rank: 10
Server: Gilgamesh
Craft: Cooking 100, Alemchy 60 Clothcraft 54, Goldsmith 25, Blacksmith 17, Fishing 22, Bonecraft 6.
#32 Nov 09 2010 at 4:09 PM Rating: Good
Sage
Avatar
*
197 posts
xellosalpha wrote:
A bit off topic, for those who say Nier is crap... did you even play past the first ending???


I don't think Wint brought up Nier as being crap, but as a (fairly) recent SE title that didn't do well in sales (not as expected at least), was subpar, or as he said bombed.
#33 Nov 09 2010 at 5:29 PM Rating: Default
**
315 posts
really guys....
gaming isn't easy. Do you wanna be wada? I think not.
____________________________
can you ware shoes in clown shoes
#34 Nov 09 2010 at 5:43 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
***
2,045 posts
Quote:
really guys....
gaming isn't easy. Do you wanna be wada? I think not.


What?

Running a marathon isn't easy, building a house isn't easy, making a movie isn't easy, being a doctor isn't easy. Guess thats why you let people qualified/fully able to do those things do them huh?

The people making this game are professionals(supposedly) that get paid a lot of money to do that job, don't talk crap about it's hard to do. That's their **** job, if they aren't upto the job gtfo and let someone that is do it or get out of the gaming industry.

This argument is really really stupid, just so you know. You make yourself look dumb saying it.
____________________________
BANNED
#35 Nov 09 2010 at 6:29 PM Rating: Good
Sage
**
551 posts
Forget resignation, or even termination. I demand seppuku!
____________________________



#36 Nov 09 2010 at 6:30 PM Rating: Decent
**
660 posts
In most developent houses the CEO isn't very close to the product. Instead, the project manager and product manager are directly responsible for keeping the whole thing together. The role of the CEO is to maintain the business side of the company, such as speaking to investors as well as the press. They are more of a company spokesman than artist or developer.

I guess its easy to blame him though, after all he is more visible. He's doing his job. Before you storm the castle, though, remember he's not as close to the product as you might think. So, who is lead producer then?
____________________________


#37 Nov 09 2010 at 6:35 PM Rating: Decent
**
621 posts
SE doesn't need an American. It would kill all the creativity that is still present at SE. All the really groundbreaking games are made out of the USA.
____________________________
Kweh?!

...prophesizing the golden patch since october 2010.
#38 Nov 09 2010 at 6:44 PM Rating: Decent
**
696 posts
Lonix wrote:
antshock30 wrote:


(LET THE BASHES ON THIS BEGIN I KNOW NO ONE WILL AGREE WITH ME BUT IT HAS TO BE SAID)


It has been said, over and over again.


This. For weeks. this.
#39 Nov 09 2010 at 6:53 PM Rating: Good
*
106 posts
I've just realized a couple things.

1. I have more fun reading all the posts here than logging onto FFXIV, the posts here are way more interesting and passionate.

2. For the very first time in my own experience since Nintento. So many players/customers internationally want the CEO to get fired, a major stock holder sold his share holding, the company's stocks tumbled and all that because of a poorly designed game!

This is amazing!!! hahahaha! Keep it going guys!
____________________________


#40 Nov 09 2010 at 9:05 PM Rating: Excellent
*
158 posts
I lost faith in Square[Enix] like... 10 years ago.

How do you go from making kick-*** PSX games to 'meh' ps2 games and then wtf ps3 games?

They're incredibly out of touch, and I think they get too much feedback from yes-men and rabid fanboys. Anyone who looked at S-E from a reasonable stance would have seen their inevitable descent coming many years ago--but nevermind that, the fanboys lynched whoever spoke ill of their beloved company.

I hope you enjoy what you've created.

#41 Nov 09 2010 at 9:17 PM Rating: Good
Sage
**
551 posts
ghosthacked wrote:
I lost faith in Square[Enix] like... 10 years ago.

How do you go from making kick-*** PSX games to 'meh' ps2 games and then wtf ps3 games?

They're incredibly out of touch, and I think they get too much feedback from yes-men and rabid fanboys. Anyone who looked at S-E from a reasonable stance would have seen their inevitable descent coming many years ago--but nevermind that, the fanboys lynched whoever spoke ill of their beloved company.

I hope you enjoy what you've created.



It's easy to understand how they went to worse games. Hironobu Sackaguchi (Final Fantasy creator) left Squaresoft after FFX because SE's corporate tools tried to start telling him what to do. HE also took the majority of the company's money with him, being that he was the main source of Squaresoft's funding. His departure is why Squaresoft had to merge with Enix in order to survive. SE wanted control of the FF franchise, and they got it. But they didn't get the heart and soul with it, he left. Too bad.

Edited, Nov 10th 2010 4:26am by Zorvan
____________________________



#42 Nov 10 2010 at 11:45 AM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
In most developent houses the CEO isn't very close to the product. Instead, the project manager and product manager are directly responsible for keeping the whole thing together. The role of the CEO is to maintain the business side of the company, such as speaking to investors as well as the press. They are more of a company spokesman than artist or developer.

I guess its easy to blame him though, after all he is more visible. He's doing his job. Before you storm the castle, though, remember he's not as close to the product as you might think. So, who is lead producer then?


While this is true, ultimately the people working for him are his responsibility. He's the one wearing the big boy pants so he's the one who gets to take the spanking.

Quote:
I lost faith in Square[Enix] like... 10 years ago.

How do you go from making kick-*** PSX games to 'meh' ps2 games and then wtf ps3 games?

They're incredibly out of touch, and I think they get too much feedback from yes-men and rabid fanboys. Anyone who looked at S-E from a reasonable stance would have seen their inevitable descent coming many years ago--but nevermind that, the fanboys lynched whoever spoke ill of their beloved company.

I hope you enjoy what you've created.



I blame FFVII:

Quote:
Before FFVII SE was known as a premier RPG game designer. When VII came out they became the class of the division. However, as more and more ppl lined up to kiss their majestic a$$ they began to believe in their own hype. They became living legends in their own minds. Now (well, before the whole FFXIV fiasco) they believed they knew what was best for any RPG. Ever deal with someone that believes they know it all? They don't listen for $hit do they? They have to be slapped in the face with their own mistakes for them to even think about being wrong. Sound familiar? I dunno, just feels to me like a titanic case of epeen, except a whole company instead of one geek with loads of imaginary gear.


I just quoted myself, how fun is that? Smiley: tongue
This forum is read only
This Forum is Read Only!
Recent Visitors: 21 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (21)