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FFXI & FFXIV release comparisonFollow

#1 Nov 09 2010 at 4:22 PM Rating: Decent
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So, a lot of people out there are griping so much about the release of FFXIV, refund this, free gil that(what's up with that by the way, gil in FFXIV is way easy to come by.) A lot of people tend to look back on FFXI's NA release and use that for the template of how this one should be, but a large fact gets overlooked, the Japanese release of FFXI was riddled with problems which are very similar to FFXIV.

I spent a good amount of time this morning looking for patch notes, or something similar, and finally found what I was looking for:

http://www.jpbutton.com/?page_id=113

Zam's patch notes only go back to '03, but these one's go back to '02. There was no AH back at the beginning either, you couldn't see pt members on the map. Give FFXIV some time to come into its own. If you don't like it now, take a break, come back in a couple of months after some updates and see how you feel.
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#2 Nov 09 2010 at 4:26 PM Rating: Good
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papajay wrote:
So, a lot of people out there are griping so much about the release of FFXIV, refund this, free gil that(what's up with that by the way, gil in FFXIV is way easy to come by.) A lot of people tend to look back on FFXI's NA release and use that for the template of how this one should be, but a large fact gets overlooked, the Japanese release of FFXI was riddled with problems which are very similar to FFXIV.

I spent a good amount of time this morning looking for patch notes, or something similar, and finally found what I was looking for:

http://www.jpbutton.com/?page_id=113

Zam's patch notes only go back to '03, but these one's go back to '02. There was no AH back at the beginning either, you couldn't see pt members on the map. Give FFXIV some time to come into its own. If you don't like it now, take a break, come back in a couple of months after some updates and see how you feel.


i remember 11 release(the jp one) as well as the release of every other major mmo on the market

NONE had great starts, all had its own issues
its peoples willigness to drudge through the first 6 months that keep MMOs going, most take that long(even warcraft) to get their feet on the ground stable enough to really be a hit and be "mostly" error free
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#3 Nov 09 2010 at 4:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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Caveat: FFXI was released in 2002 when the MMO market was still in its infancy. It was still blasted then for being difficult and unintuitive. When FFXIV was announced, the devs said they learned their lesson.
#4 Nov 09 2010 at 4:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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papajay wrote:
Zam's patch notes only go back to '03, but these one's go back to '02. There was no AH back at the beginning either, you couldn't see pt members on the map. Give FFXIV some time to come into its own. If you don't like it now, take a break, come back in a couple of months after some updates and see how you feel.


This gives me less reason to excuse SE for what they released....they experienced player feedback before and completely ignored it. Once again they tried to shove their way down our throats thinking it would be better for us and once again it backfired on them, but much worse seeing as how popular MMOs have become since the original release of XI
#5 Nov 09 2010 at 4:33 PM Rating: Good
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Pretty sure theres a big thread on this already,

But ya why are we constantly comparing this game to someting from 8 years ago. Alot of things were crap in 2002 compared to the 2010 version, cell phones, cars, T.V.'s, mp3 players,...w/e The point is in 2010 you would think a big publisher would have figured a few things out. Just because FFXI was full of problems and void of content doesn't mean it's perfectly acceptable for FFXIV to be the same way.
#6 Nov 09 2010 at 4:49 PM Rating: Good
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I wasn't comapring it to an 8 year old game, just its release.

No MMO releases perfectly, that's why they invented patches.
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#7 Nov 09 2010 at 4:54 PM Rating: Decent
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I highly doubt that in 2002 if FFXI had been released to NA in the same state it was released to the JP that it would have been as successful as it was.

Face it by the time it was released in NA it had tons of content and the features we want now. It is pointless to compare the JP release of FFXI to the current release of FFXIV. Do you see anyone speaking japanese here? Is this a japanese website? No.

For most of the people anywhere besides Japan, the NA release was the release of FFXI. But heck even the Japanese who did experience the true launch of that game, are posting negativity against this game. This just isn't acceptable in this day and age.

Edited, Nov 9th 2010 5:55pm by Ezariel
#8 Nov 09 2010 at 4:54 PM Rating: Decent
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papajay wrote:
I wasn't comapring it to an 8 year old game, just its release.

No MMO releases perfectly, that's why they invented patches.

Bingo Aoc had a nasty launch, yet no one remembers. Look up Aoc and see how bad rep the game got, and the new about the company running it. Its not pretty. Yet that game is around and got its first expac. And that was a high rated game. Aion had a nasty run so far, alot of ppl droping due to forced pvp or not enough pvp content. yet that game is still around and first expac was free.
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#9 Nov 09 2010 at 4:58 PM Rating: Decent
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Irishclass777 wrote:
papajay wrote:
I wasn't comapring it to an 8 year old game, just its release.

No MMO releases perfectly, that's why they invented patches.

Bingo Aoc had a nasty launch, yet no one remembers. Look up Aoc and see how bad rep the game got, and the new about the company running it. Its not pretty. Yet that game is around and got its first expac. And that was a high rated game. Aion had a nasty run so far, alot of ppl droping due to forced pvp or not enough pvp content. yet that game is still around and first expac was free.


However even AoC and Aion launched with enough content to keep me interested for a few months. I had experienced 98% of what FFXIV had to offer in the first week... I would say the first day but I didn't explore Mor Dhona until a week later...

Edited, Nov 9th 2010 5:59pm by Ezariel
#10 Nov 09 2010 at 5:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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Actually, Aion is doing very well and at one point was sitting at 4 million active subscribers worldwide:

http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-1.png

WoW's massive drop is the result of their China servers being temporarily disabled for most of 2009 - subs shot back up when the game returned in that region. AoC's biggest fault at launch was the lack of endgame content. The first 20 levels of AoC was probably some of the best I've experienced in any MMORPG (drawing from my experiences from EQ, FFXI, WoW, LoTRO, WAR, Aion, and FFXIV). That lack of content drove many players from the game, especially since Warhammer subsequently launched right after it. Unfortunately, Warhammer ALSO suffered from lack of endgame content and lost a good portion of its playerbase to Aion when it launched in the west.

Edit: Looking over at my post, I'm seeing a pattern. FFXIV has essentially zero endgame content (along with an entire horde of other problems) and with Cataclysm and other strong MMORPGs on the horizon (Tera, Guild Wars 2, SW:TOR, etc) this could sadly be history repeating itself, again.

Edited, Nov 9th 2010 6:08pm by Numnaydar
#11 Nov 09 2010 at 5:08 PM Rating: Good
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Irishclass777 wrote:
papajay wrote:
I wasn't comapring it to an 8 year old game, just its release.

No MMO releases perfectly, that's why they invented patches.

Bingo Aoc had a nasty launch, yet no one remembers. Look up Aoc and see how bad rep the game got, and the new about the company running it. Its not pretty. Yet that game is around and got its first expac. And that was a high rated game. Aion had a nasty run so far, alot of ppl droping due to forced pvp or not enough pvp content. yet that game is still around and first expac was free.



Well the thing is these games had bad launches due to technical problems. Glitches, unstable servers, certain mechanics not working. The big problem we have here in FFXIV, are design flaws. Things working as intended, just poorly designed.

And what we Should Have learned from these games having bad launches, is that to make a successful MMO in todays market you have to come out on launch day like gangbusters, running on all cylinders. Or else you get a new a-hole ripped by reviewers and end up falling flat on your face and having half of your most loyal fans LOL'ing at you.

Now again, just because other games have had bad launches, is no excuse for every mmo from now on to have a bad launch. One of thses days you would think a company would get their sh*t straight and have a good launch.

Edited, Nov 9th 2010 6:08pm by KristoFurwalken
#12 Nov 09 2010 at 5:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Numnaydar wrote:
Actually, Aion is doing very well and at one point was sitting at 4 million active subscribers worldwide:

http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-1.png

WoW's massive drop is the result of their China servers being temporarily disabled for most of 2009 - subs shot back up when the game returned in that region. AoC's biggest fault at launch was the lack of endgame content. The first 20 levels of AoC was probably some of the best I've experienced in any MMORPG (drawing from my experiences from EQ, FFXI, WoW, LoTRO, WAR, Aion, and FFXIV). That lack of content drove many players from the game, especially since Warhammer subsequently launched right after it. Unfortunately, Warhammer ALSO suffered from lack of endgame content and lost a good portion of its playerbase to Aion when it launched in the west.

Edited, Nov 9th 2010 6:05pm by Numnaydar

and thats player folly, due to mad rush and expectation they had when going into a new mmo as an mmo veteran. They look for things they are used to and cry bs when they realise how new the game is.
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#13 Nov 09 2010 at 5:12 PM Rating: Decent
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KristoFurwalken wrote:
Irishclass777 wrote:
papajay wrote:
I wasn't comapring it to an 8 year old game, just its release.

No MMO releases perfectly, that's why they invented patches.

Bingo Aoc had a nasty launch, yet no one remembers. Look up Aoc and see how bad rep the game got, and the new about the company running it. Its not pretty. Yet that game is around and got its first expac. And that was a high rated game. Aion had a nasty run so far, alot of ppl droping due to forced pvp or not enough pvp content. yet that game is still around and first expac was free.



Well the thing is these games had bad launches due to technical problems. Glitches, unstable servers, certain mechanics not working. The big problem we have here in FFXIV, are design flaws. Things working as intended, just poorly designed.

And what we Should Have learned from these games having bad launches, is that to make a successful MMO in todays market you have to come out on launch day like gangbusters, running on all cylinders. Or else you get a new a-hole ripped by reviewers and end up falling flat on your face and having half of your most loyal fans LOL'ing at you.

Now again, just because other games have had bad launches, is no excuse for every mmo from now on to have a bad launch. One of thses days you would think a company would get their sh*t straight and have a good launch.

Edited, Nov 9th 2010 6:08pm by KristoFurwalken



another player folly they assune all mmo are built/ run the same. Big WRONG. Its also not easy sh*it happens. If companies did what you said we will have the same mmos w/o diversity. Pretty much every game would be WoW. Just different races.. maybe.
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#14 Nov 09 2010 at 5:12 PM Rating: Good
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KristoFurwalken wrote:

Pretty sure theres a big thread on this already,

But ya why are we constantly comparing this game to someting from 8 years ago. Alot of things were crap in 2002 compared to the 2010 version, cell phones, cars, T.V.'s, mp3 players,...w/e The point is in 2010 you would think a big publisher would have figured a few things out. Just because FFXI was full of problems and void of content doesn't mean it's perfectly acceptable for FFXIV to be the same way.


The funny thing with your post is that you talked about hardware, yes cell phones, mp3 players, TVs etc are better now but software (which ffxiv is) hasnt changed, what I mean is no matter how good a programmer you are every program the size of a MMO will have problems maybe a slight typo in the code or missing lines which make bugs. Now heres the funny thing you try to fix a bug and your fix can cause conflicts else where in the code so you need to change more of the code to fix the conflicts which cause more errors which need fixing, and possibly more errors, I take it you get the point now.

If you keep your origanal theroy of things being crap in 2002 and better in 2010 lets go to somthing more relevent to software shall we, MS office 2003 (closest I could get to 2002) was nice, you could find what you wanted and it worked, MS office 2007/2010 if you grew up with 2003 format 2007/2010 is awful, you cant find anything and it seems like its alot less stable than 2003.

What about windows xp from 2003 and windows vista which was better, my point is what you listed is just getting electrons to move through metal better basicly, software is typing alot of the time millions of lines of code, I can safely say ffxiv will have over 1 million lines of code, which the smallest typo can prevent the whole program working, this year at university I have been doing PHP when I miss 1 semi colon the website doesnt work, that sort of thing will never change with software unless we take the human error out of the equasion (sp?).

This is what people cant comprihend, most ppl who flame the game, complain about bugs whatever, they have probably never touched programming code before.

Also you are bringing hardware in as well with MMOs in the form of servers, too much load on the servers can cause programming errors as well (i know with the amount of ppl rage quitting this prolly isnt the case) mainly because of how thw priorities are set on servers, so less resources go to the program so more ppl can log on.

What people were expecting from xiv is that it would be xi-2, no matter how many ppl said it wouldnt be th fact that ppl dont like it is bc they dont like change, ffxiv is loads differant from any MMO with manual attacking etc which is change which ppl dont like, everyone likes things to be familiar to what there used to.

long story short, You cant say "well hardware is alot better now than in 2002, so ffxiv should be" mainly because of the human error.
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#15 Nov 09 2010 at 5:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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Numnaydar wrote:
Actually, Aion is doing very well and at one point was sitting at 4 million active subscribers worldwide:

http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-1.png

WoW's massive drop is the result of their China servers being temporarily disabled for most of 2009 - subs shot back up when the game returned in that region. AoC's biggest fault at launch was the lack of endgame content. The first 20 levels of AoC was probably some of the best I've experienced in any MMORPG (drawing from my experiences from EQ, FFXI, WoW, LoTRO, WAR, Aion, and FFXIV). That lack of content drove many players from the game, especially since Warhammer subsequently launched right after it. Unfortunately, Warhammer ALSO suffered from lack of endgame content and lost a good portion of its playerbase to Aion when it launched in the west.

Edit: Looking over at my post, I'm seeing a pattern. FFXIV has essentially zero endgame content (along with an entire horde of other problems) and with Cataclysm and other strong MMORPGs on the horizon (Tera, Guild Wars 2, SW:TOR, etc) this could sadly be history repeating itself, again.

Edited, Nov 9th 2010 6:08pm by Numnaydar
Having played AoC from launch, I'll agree that the first 20 levels were fantastic, and really up until the low 30's the grind was almost non-existent. I was having such a good time playing the game that I hardly noticed the work involved. Once you hit the mid 30's though the exp requirements started shooting up very quickly, and the number of quests available plummeted.
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#16 Nov 09 2010 at 5:14 PM Rating: Good
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Android is alot better than the software on the Nokia 3360 I had in 2002.
Windows 7 is better than windows xp yes. OSX Snow Leopard is alot better than Puma. So on and so forth.



Edited, Nov 9th 2010 6:20pm by KristoFurwalken
#17 Nov 09 2010 at 5:19 PM Rating: Decent
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scrish wrote:
KristoFurwalken wrote:

Pretty sure theres a big thread on this already,

But ya why are we constantly comparing this game to someting from 8 years ago. Alot of things were crap in 2002 compared to the 2010 version, cell phones, cars, T.V.'s, mp3 players,...w/e The point is in 2010 you would think a big publisher would have figured a few things out. Just because FFXI was full of problems and void of content doesn't mean it's perfectly acceptable for FFXIV to be the same way.


The funny thing with your post is that you talked about hardware, yes cell phones, mp3 players, TVs etc are better now but software (which ffxiv is) hasnt changed, what I mean is no matter how good a programmer you are every program the size of a MMO will have problems maybe a slight typo in the code or missing lines which make bugs. Now heres the funny thing you try to fix a bug and your fix can cause conflicts else where in the code so you need to change more of the code to fix the conflicts which cause more errors which need fixing, and possibly more errors, I take it you get the point now.

If you keep your origanal theroy of things being crap in 2002 and better in 2010 lets go to somthing more relevent to software shall we, MS office 2003 (closest I could get to 2002) was nice, you could find what you wanted and it worked, MS office 2007/2010 if you grew up with 2003 format 2007/2010 is awful, you cant find anything and it seems like its alot less stable than 2003.

What about windows xp from 2003 and windows vista which was better, my point is what you listed is just getting electrons to move through metal better basicly, software is typing alot of the time millions of lines of code, I can safely say ffxiv will have over 1 million lines of code, which the smallest typo can prevent the whole program working, this year at university I have been doing PHP when I miss 1 semi colon the website doesnt work, that sort of thing will never change with software unless we take the human error out of the equasion (sp?).

This is what people cant comprihend, most ppl who flame the game, complain about bugs whatever, they have probably never touched programming code before.

Also you are bringing hardware in as well with MMOs in the form of servers, too much load on the servers can cause programming errors as well (i know with the amount of ppl rage quitting this prolly isnt the case) mainly because of how thw priorities are set on servers, so less resources go to the program so more ppl can log on.

What people were expecting from xiv is that it would be xi-2, no matter how many ppl said it wouldnt be th fact that ppl dont like it is bc they dont like change, ffxiv is loads differant from any MMO with manual attacking etc which is change which ppl dont like, everyone likes things to be familiar to what there used to.

long story short, You cant say "well hardware is alot better now than in 2002, so ffxiv should be" mainly because of the human error.

simple fact mmo are not easy to make/ run its a 24/7 job. Sure there are a ton of f2p mmo and p2p mmo, but there 10x as much single player games. MMo are dufferent beast. If they was easy to make, we would have alot more out with "flawless" releases.
Anyway good luck to yall.
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#18 Nov 09 2010 at 5:21 PM Rating: Default
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Ezariel wrote:
I highly doubt that in 2002 if FFXI had been released to NA in the same state it was released to the JP that it would have been as successful as it was.

Face it by the time it was released in NA it had tons of content and the features we want now. It is pointless to compare the JP release of FFXI to the current release of FFXIV. Do you see anyone speaking japanese here? Is this a japanese website? No.

For most of the people anywhere besides Japan, the NA release was the release of FFXI. But heck even the Japanese who did experience the true launch of that game, are posting negativity against this game. This just isn't acceptable in this day and age.

Edited, Nov 9th 2010 5:55pm by Ezariel


The main reason the japanese are posting negativity is because of how ffxiv handles JP charecters, in xi if thier keyboard was set to kanji, they would type /tell and xi would know that it needed the next word in romaji charecters (normal english alphabet) and things like that, however in xiv if the japanese want to send a tell they have to change thier keyboard to romaji charecters for the name of the recipiant, this makes the game almost unplayable for them.

わたし わ イギリスージン です

Oh look at that somone speaking japanese here, btw I am learning japanese, i arent japanese lol but my point stands
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#19 Nov 09 2010 at 5:25 PM Rating: Good
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That is hardly their one and only problem with FFXIV. My point still stands as well. If you want to compare the JP release of XI to this one, there is no point in doing so here. You're comparing apples and oranges.

Edited, Nov 9th 2010 6:27pm by Ezariel
#20 Nov 09 2010 at 5:33 PM Rating: Default
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KristoFurwalken wrote:
Android is alot better than the software on the Nokia 3360 I had in 2002.
Windows 7 is better than windows xp yes. OSX Snow Leopard is alot better than Puma. So on and so forth.



Edited, Nov 9th 2010 6:20pm by KristoFurwalken


Moblile phone operating systems have alot less code than a PC/mac OS or even a MMO because of limited resources so theres alot less code to debug when things dont work, but about your windows comment i'll let you into somthing microsoft dont want ppl to know, Windows 7 is based on the vista kernal, MS knew vista had a really bad rep so when they were working on 7 they decided to rebrand it, so windows 7 is just vista 2.0, put it this way if at the release of windows 7 they had said they were releasing Windows vista 2.0 would you have spent £100+ or however much windows 7 costs where you are to upgrade from xp? And i'll acknolage i cant comment on your OSX statement due to the fact I have never used a mac because they are over priced for what you get.

Try again to prove me wrong
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#21 Nov 09 2010 at 5:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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If that is the case then, why 8 years later would they repeat the same mistakes?

You would think... after FFXIV's predecessor they would know what worked well. Only when it starts to fall does SE realize that they should have listened to the beta testers! Instead they released the game -then after the horrid reviews- they start to searching through the complaint threads to realize their blunders.

Sure it wasn't a smooth release to say the least, but let's face the fact... that the main problem is, FFXIV was unfinished before it's deadline.
#22 Nov 09 2010 at 5:44 PM Rating: Default
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Ezariel wrote:
That is hardly their one and only problem with FFXIV. My point still stands as well. If you want to compare the JP release of XI to this one, there is no point in doing so here. You're comparing apples and oranges.

Edited, Nov 9th 2010 6:27pm by Ezariel


Before i start sorry for double post couldnt be bothered to manually put quote in my previous one.

So what your saying is compairing a 18 month old game is better? Yes JP NA and EU have differant ideas of what makes a good game and tolerances the fact is that even though there are differances in views in differant countries people want the same thing wherever they are, things to be relyable and the same, the problem in NA is that americans have no tolerance at all, everything has to be working perfectly at release, however JP and EU have tolerances, we say, "i'll give them a few months" NA just say "OMG THIS DOESNT WORK /RAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" then turn into the hulk. you americans need to loosen up a lil and learn some tolerance at the start (sorry if its an unfair generalisation, i'm just going by what i have seen which is all i can do)

Because of this fact, if SE release any more MMOs i really hope they only release them in japan then roll them out to EU and NA, however if i was SE i would just say ********** you english speakers, you aint getting any more of our games, who has the power now"

And where in my post did i say the writing is JPs only problem? i said its thier main one, i think you should look up the words main and only in a dictionary.
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#23 Nov 09 2010 at 5:45 PM Rating: Good
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scrish wrote:
KristoFurwalken wrote:
Android is alot better than the software on the Nokia 3360 I had in 2002.
Windows 7 is better than windows xp yes. OSX Snow Leopard is alot better than Puma. So on and so forth.



Edited, Nov 9th 2010 6:20pm by KristoFurwalken


Moblile phone operating systems have alot less code than a PC/mac OS or even a MMO because of limited resources so theres alot less code to debug when things dont work, but about your windows comment i'll let you into somthing microsoft dont want ppl to know, Windows 7 is based on the vista kernal, MS knew vista had a really bad rep so when they were working on 7 they decided to rebrand it, so windows 7 is just vista 2.0, put it this way if at the release of windows 7 they had said they were releasing Windows vista 2.0 would you have spent £100+ or however much windows 7 costs where you are to upgrade from xp? And i'll acknolage i cant comment on your OSX statement due to the fact I have never used a mac because they are over priced for what you get.

Try again to prove me wrong


Ya, I'm not really trying to prove you wrong, you're just being an argumentative tw@.
All the things you just rambled on about there, are better than the 2002 counterpart. Everything I've bought in the last year or 2, is better than the 2002 counterpart. Except FFXIV, which I reckon in your little dream world is perfectly acceptable, because MMO aren't held to the same standard everything else in the world is.
#24 Nov 09 2010 at 5:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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The only thing I'm getting out of this post is that SE failed for certain reasons in 2002 and then failed again for the same reasons 8 years later.

That's not very encouraging.
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#25 Nov 09 2010 at 5:51 PM Rating: Decent
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Ezariel wrote:
I highly doubt that in 2002 if FFXI had been released to NA in the same state it was released to the JP that it would have been as successful as it was.

Face it by the time it was released in NA it had tons of content and the features we want now. It is pointless to compare the JP release of FFXI to the current release of FFXIV. Do you see anyone speaking japanese here? Is this a japanese website? No.

For most of the people anywhere besides Japan, the NA release was the release of FFXI. But heck even the Japanese who did experience the true launch of that game, are posting negativity against this game. This just isn't acceptable in this day and age.

Edited, Nov 9th 2010 5:55pm by Ezariel


did you even feel the breeze on the point as it sped past you?
#26 Nov 09 2010 at 6:03 PM Rating: Decent
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KristoFurwalken wrote:
scrish wrote:
KristoFurwalken wrote:
Android is alot better than the software on the Nokia 3360 I had in 2002.
Windows 7 is better than windows xp yes. OSX Snow Leopard is alot better than Puma. So on and so forth.



Edited, Nov 9th 2010 6:20pm by KristoFurwalken


Moblile phone operating systems have alot less code than a PC/mac OS or even a MMO because of limited resources so theres alot less code to debug when things dont work, but about your windows comment i'll let you into somthing microsoft dont want ppl to know, Windows 7 is based on the vista kernal, MS knew vista had a really bad rep so when they were working on 7 they decided to rebrand it, so windows 7 is just vista 2.0, put it this way if at the release of windows 7 they had said they were releasing Windows vista 2.0 would you have spent £100+ or however much windows 7 costs where you are to upgrade from xp? And i'll acknolage i cant comment on your OSX statement due to the fact I have never used a mac because they are over priced for what you get.

Try again to prove me wrong


Ya, I'm not really trying to prove you wrong, you're just being an argumentative tw@.
All the things you just rambled on about there, are better than the 2002 counterpart. Everything I've bought in the last year or 2, is better than the 2002 counterpart. Except FFXIV, which I reckon in your little dream world is perfectly acceptable, because MMO aren't held to the same standard everything else in the world is.


I'm not trying to be argumentetive i'm just putting the point across that alot of the time brand new software is differant from hardware or updated software, yes SE released xiv to soon i will admit that, but its done now theres nothing any amount of flaming can do to undo that. But now its out if enough people cope with it for now for the project to be financialy viable for SE it will get better.

What i dont want is people that are thinking coming to xiv because of all the flamers on forums deciding not to, if you dont like the game get over it and quit, we dont need to hear the same things over and over again.

If the flamers just quit and stfu more new people will want to give the game a chance which will in turn give the game a chance to be a success.

What it seems like to me is that the flamers just want the game to fail because they dont like it.
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#27 Nov 09 2010 at 6:10 PM Rating: Decent
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The fact that FFXI sucked at launch does not give SE a free pass for FFXIV to suck at launch as well.

But I digress, for all of FFXI issues at launch, it was still a much better game than this.
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#28 Nov 09 2010 at 6:27 PM Rating: Decent
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kornbred wrote:
The fact that FFXI sucked at launch does not give SE a free pass for FFXIV to suck at launch as well.

But I digress, for all of FFXI issues at launch, it was still a much better game than this.


I point you to This URL from JP release (commence the "but thats Japan were all NA/EU flames)

Least we got to play at release.
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#29 Nov 09 2010 at 6:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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The fact that FFXI's release was similar to it's successors release 8+ years later only compounds how pathetically bad it is.

Just because FFXI had a bad rough release doesn't mean FFXIV's release is 'normal' or 'okay'. FFXI was SE's first step into the MMO world, it makes sense that it started rough. WOW wasn't even out then I believe. There were a lot of mistakes to be made. We needed mistakes back then to get to where we are today.

But today, FFXIV's release is unaccetable. When you upgrade you don't start from scratch all over again, you take what you learned, improve the good and revise the bad, and go from there.

Your logic is disgustingly flawed.
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#30 Nov 09 2010 at 6:53 PM Rating: Decent
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Carbi wrote:
The fact that FFXI's release was similar to it's successors release 8+ years later only compounds how pathetically bad it is.

Just because FFXI had a bad rough release doesn't mean FFXIV's release is 'normal' or 'okay'. FFXI was SE's first step into the MMO world, it makes sense that it started rough. WOW wasn't even out then I believe. There were a lot of mistakes to be made. We needed mistakes back then to get to where we are today.

But today, FFXIV's release is unaccetable. When you upgrade you don't start from scratch all over again, you take what you learned, improve the good and revise the bad, and go from there.

Your logic is disgustingly flawed.


I aren't saying it is acceptable, but all MMOs have issues at release because of human error in the coding, yes the game was rushed out that is obvious and as a result, i'm not sure if it was in this post I said this so i'll say it again just in case when I was doing the alpha test I told a friend that I couldnt see the game being released before 2011 and i stand by that, it shouldnt have been released before 2011. However the game is out now so we need to tolerate it to give SE a chance to fix the game, if you cant tolerate it theres no point in flaming on forums, go outside, find a woman, get laid etc etc and come back when the game is better (I know i'm saying the same things over and over again, it because it seems like alot of ppl have to try to make the game fail). From what I have seen the flamers just want the game to fail just to say i told you so. Let the people who like the game make it better for everyone ffs.

I agree with you they should have taken more from what they learned, but if they took everything it would have been ffxi-2 which would really suck, yes there are basic functions they should have added from xi like for example inventory auto sort.

However if for now you take those basic functionality issues out of the equasion for now because i do agree it was a mistake, alot of things people flame about are bugs which could be one typo in over 1 million lines of code and an AH however SE want to try somthing differant which has potential to be a success, even though the problems with wards should have never been there, but its a differant system to xi so yes there will be problems.

Going back to the bugs I ask you, how many MMOs have you written from a blank notepad page? do you know how much work goes into them?
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#31MajidahSihaam, Posted: Nov 09 2010 at 7:12 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Correct me if I'm wrong, but the FFXI development team is NOT the same as the one on FFXIV.
#32 Nov 09 2010 at 7:14 PM Rating: Default
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MajidahSihaam wrote:
Carbi wrote:
The fact that FFXI's release was similar to it's successors release 8+ years later only compounds how pathetically bad it is.

Just because FFXI had a bad rough release doesn't mean FFXIV's release is 'normal' or 'okay'. FFXI was SE's first step into the MMO world, it makes sense that it started rough. WOW wasn't even out then I believe. There were a lot of mistakes to be made. We needed mistakes back then to get to where we are today.

But today, FFXIV's release is unaccetable. When you upgrade you don't start from scratch all over again, you take what you learned, improve the good and revise the bad, and go from there.

Your logic is disgustingly flawed.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but the FFXI development team is NOT the same as the one on FFXIV.
FFXI is NOT an upgrade from FFXIV. Its an ENTIRE different game. People need to get this in their head.


Thank you, I was starting to think I was about the only person that understands this, however I think alot of the dev team is from XI, but your comment about it being a differant game is spot on.
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#33 Nov 09 2010 at 7:20 PM Rating: Decent
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I think people are mad and impatient because Square already came out with an MMO and knew what people complained about in the first six months...so why make the same mistake twice??
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#34 Nov 09 2010 at 7:23 PM Rating: Decent
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scrish wrote:
MajidahSihaam wrote:
Carbi wrote:
The fact that FFXI's release was similar to it's successors release 8+ years later only compounds how pathetically bad it is.

Just because FFXI had a bad rough release doesn't mean FFXIV's release is 'normal' or 'okay'. FFXI was SE's first step into the MMO world, it makes sense that it started rough. WOW wasn't even out then I believe. There were a lot of mistakes to be made. We needed mistakes back then to get to where we are today.

But today, FFXIV's release is unaccetable. When you upgrade you don't start from scratch all over again, you take what you learned, improve the good and revise the bad, and go from there.

Your logic is disgustingly flawed.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but the FFXI development team is NOT the same as the one on FFXIV.
FFXI is NOT an upgrade from FFXIV. Its an ENTIRE different game. People need to get this in their head.


Thank you, I was starting to think I was about the only person that understands this, however I think alot of the dev team is from XI, but your comment about it being a differant game is spot on.


From wikipedia,

FFXI
Director: Koichi Ishii, Akihiko Matsui
Producer: Hiromichi Tanaka
Artists: Tetsuya Nomura, Nobuyoshi Mihara, Tamae Kisanuki
Composers: Naoshi Mizuta, Kumi Tanioka, Nobuo Uematsu

FFXIV
Director: Nobuaki Komoto
Producer: Hiromichi Tanaka
Artist: Akihiko Yoshida
Composer: Nobuo Uematsu

The only people they've kept are the producer and one of the composers and to my understanding the producer has little to no involvement in the actual game's design. If they've kept someone else they are nothing but subordinates taking directions from the director.
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#35 Nov 09 2010 at 7:50 PM Rating: Good
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scrish wrote:
The funny thing with your post is that you talked about hardware, yes cell phones, mp3 players, TVs etc are better now but software (which ffxiv is) hasnt changed, what I mean is no matter how good a programmer you are every program the size of a MMO will have problems maybe a slight typo in the code or missing lines which make bugs. Now heres the funny thing you try to fix a bug and your fix can cause conflicts else where in the code so you need to change more of the code to fix the conflicts which cause more errors which need fixing, and possibly more errors, I take it you get the point now.

If you keep your origanal theroy of things being crap in 2002 and better in 2010 lets go to somthing more relevent to software shall we, MS office 2003 (closest I could get to 2002) was nice, you could find what you wanted and it worked, MS office 2007/2010 if you grew up with 2003 format 2007/2010 is awful, you cant find anything and it seems like its alot less stable than 2003.

What about windows xp from 2003 and windows vista which was better, my point is what you listed is just getting electrons to move through metal better basicly, software is typing alot of the time millions of lines of code, I can safely say ffxiv will have over 1 million lines of code, which the smallest typo can prevent the whole program working, this year at university I have been doing PHP when I miss 1 semi colon the website doesnt work, that sort of thing will never change with software unless we take the human error out of the equasion (sp?).

This is what people cant comprihend, most ppl who flame the game, complain about bugs whatever, they have probably never touched programming code before.

Also you are bringing hardware in as well with MMOs in the form of servers, too much load on the servers can cause programming errors as well (i know with the amount of ppl rage quitting this prolly isnt the case) mainly because of how thw priorities are set on servers, so less resources go to the program so more ppl can log on.

What people were expecting from xiv is that it would be xi-2, no matter how many ppl said it wouldnt be th fact that ppl dont like it is bc they dont like change, ffxiv is loads differant from any MMO with manual attacking etc which is change which ppl dont like, everyone likes things to be familiar to what there used to.

long story short, You cant say "well hardware is alot better now than in 2002, so ffxiv should be" mainly because of the human error.


As someone who's working as a programmer and about to start my master's in computer science, I just want to say how flat out wrong you are when you say that software hasn't changed a lot since 2002. Both in terms of available or known algorithms and programming practices and methodologies, software development today is a dramatically different beast than it was even a decade ago. Saying programming is the same as it was a decade ago because you make a typo in your source code is like saying smelting metals is the same as 2000 years ago because you forgot to put in the ore.

Look up things like agile programming, scheduling algorithms, multi-threading and your mind will be blown at the advances that have been made since the turn of the millennium. The long development cycles that were acceptable in the 80's and 90's, where a software engineering firm would collect requirements for a program up front, go into seclusion for a year or two, and then spit out a product doesn't work anymore.
#36 Nov 09 2010 at 7:51 PM Rating: Good
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This circular argument is getting nowhere. Check it out it's really easy.

FFXI > 2002: suffered from lack of AH, lack of content, bugs, glitches, lack general knowledge of game mechanics. Game didn't become popular till released to mass audiences with tons of content and limited bugs circa 2003 NA release.

FFXIV > 2010: suffered from lack of AH, lack of content, bugs, glitches, awful U.I, lack of general knowledge of game mechanics. Game is supposed to be released to mass audiences in 2011 via PS3 with likely tons of content and limited bugs.

hmmmm anyone seeing a pattern here? The first group of players, be it JP in 2002 or us PC users in 2010 are the paid betta testers for the real larger market/audience. Here is the problem, in 2002 it was o.k. to do this. 2010 not so much. The MMO market has moe competition, the single player market is more competitive. There is more going on in the world of PC entertainment in 2010 than 2002. Old models don't work.

It is NOT ok to release a ****** game to paid consumers to betta test it for you. Either it's ready or it's not. This game was not, is not ready. Unless there is a RoZ type expansion planed for Nov/Dec version updates coming up this game is done on PC and the only hope SE has is that PS3 users who don't own computers(i'm not one of those and I don't know any)want to play a MMO and pay monthly fees.

FFXIV was a great, awesome, fabulous, and supper idea that went horribly wrong. Somewhere along the line, common sence was thrown out the window and retardation took over.

XI was great and had awesome features that kept a strong and loyal fan base for many, many years. WoW has some awesome features that make it the best MMO EVER!!! So on and so forth.

After 8 years since the release of XI and 6 since WoW you think the ball on what a "great MMO" is made of has moved forward. However, SE decided that they didn't need to do anything successful with XIV. They were going to re-invent the MMO and define what is successful now. However, as we can see they didn't redefine anything and in fact failed to even do something so simple as make ctrl-r work in a FF game done by a company that is still operating a game that uses ctrl-r....
#37 Nov 09 2010 at 7:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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Another thing that isn't being brought up is that when FFXI was released in Japan, SE was very enthusiastic about feedback from players and were releasing updates every 1-2 weeks. Even though the AH wasn't in at release, SE was very quick to disclose that there would be one.

FFXI had a healthy release because:

1: Updates were consistent and regular
2: problems were identified and in most cases rectified quickly

You can get away with releasing a pretty awful game if your player base has reason to believe it will get better soon. That said, FFXI's fundamentals were in place and SE mostly only had to tweak values on most existing content (like EXP awarded for EMs and HP on all mobs(except bst pets for some reason)).
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#38 Nov 09 2010 at 7:54 PM Rating: Good
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MajidahSihaam wrote:


Correct me if I'm wrong, but the FFXI development team is NOT the same as the one on FFXIV.
FFXIV is NOT an upgrade from FFXI. Its an ENTIRE different and new game. People need to get this in their head.

Edited, Nov 9th 2010 8:14pm by MajidahSihaam


It's still the same company though, do you think if Blizzard made a new MMO it would be a piece of **** at launch because it's using different developers? I highly doubt it, stop defending SE, they rushed this game and anyone who thinks otherwise is just in denial.
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#39 Nov 09 2010 at 8:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Wolfums wrote:
scrish wrote:
The funny thing with your post is that you talked about hardware, yes cell phones, mp3 players, TVs etc are better now but software (which ffxiv is) hasnt changed, what I mean is no matter how good a programmer you are every program the size of a MMO will have problems maybe a slight typo in the code or missing lines which make bugs. Now heres the funny thing you try to fix a bug and your fix can cause conflicts else where in the code so you need to change more of the code to fix the conflicts which cause more errors which need fixing, and possibly more errors, I take it you get the point now.

If you keep your origanal theroy of things being crap in 2002 and better in 2010 lets go to somthing more relevent to software shall we, MS office 2003 (closest I could get to 2002) was nice, you could find what you wanted and it worked, MS office 2007/2010 if you grew up with 2003 format 2007/2010 is awful, you cant find anything and it seems like its alot less stable than 2003.

What about windows xp from 2003 and windows vista which was better, my point is what you listed is just getting electrons to move through metal better basicly, software is typing alot of the time millions of lines of code, I can safely say ffxiv will have over 1 million lines of code, which the smallest typo can prevent the whole program working, this year at university I have been doing PHP when I miss 1 semi colon the website doesnt work, that sort of thing will never change with software unless we take the human error out of the equasion (sp?).

This is what people cant comprihend, most ppl who flame the game, complain about bugs whatever, they have probably never touched programming code before.

Also you are bringing hardware in as well with MMOs in the form of servers, too much load on the servers can cause programming errors as well (i know with the amount of ppl rage quitting this prolly isnt the case) mainly because of how thw priorities are set on servers, so less resources go to the program so more ppl can log on.

What people were expecting from xiv is that it would be xi-2, no matter how many ppl said it wouldnt be th fact that ppl dont like it is bc they dont like change, ffxiv is loads differant from any MMO with manual attacking etc which is change which ppl dont like, everyone likes things to be familiar to what there used to.

long story short, You cant say "well hardware is alot better now than in 2002, so ffxiv should be" mainly because of the human error.


As someone who's working as a programmer and about to start my master's in computer science, I just want to say how flat out wrong you are when you say that software hasn't changed a lot since 2002. Both in terms of available or known algorithms and programming practices and methodologies, software development today is a dramatically different beast than it was even a decade ago. Saying programming is the same as it was a decade ago because you make a typo in your source code is like saying smelting metals is the same as 2000 years ago because you forgot to put in the ore.

Look up things like agile programming, scheduling algorithms, multi-threading and your mind will be blown at the advances that have been made since the turn of the millennium. The long development cycles that were acceptable in the 80's and 90's, where a software engineering firm would collect requirements for a program up front, go into seclusion for a year or two, and then spit out a product doesn't work anymore.


Those things you mentioned dont change the fact that theres a limit to how much you can physicaly type, whilst your waiting for another team to find typos and bugs in the source code in millions of lines of code, yes there should be comments saying what the function of the differant parts of the source do, however they only help when you know what part of the game is broken.

A brand new game has to have the entire source code proof read for problems or run it and see what happens, but for a full HD (for PC) 3d MMO this will still take alot of time.

What I should have said is people havent changed that much since 2002 which slows down content development or creates bugs, because beleave it or not no one is perfect.

But my comparison between hardware and software development is still valid, I havent seen anyone contradict my point that alot more work needs to go into software than hardware, which was basicly my point.
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#40 Nov 09 2010 at 8:17 PM Rating: Good
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scrish wrote:
Those things you mentioned dont change the fact that theres a limit to how much you can physicaly type, whilst your waiting for another team to find typos and bugs in the source code in millions of lines of code, yes there should be comments saying what the function of the differant parts of the source do, however they only help when you know what part of the game is broken.

A brand new game has to have the entire source code proof read for problems or run it and see what happens, but for a full HD (for PC) 3d MMO this will still take alot of time.

What I should have said is people havent changed that much since 2002 which slows down content development or creates bugs, because beleave it or not no one is perfect.

But my comparison between hardware and software development is still valid, I havent seen anyone contradict my point that alot more work needs to go into software than hardware, which was basicly my point.


Again, there are tons of practices that have sprung up in the last decade or two that help out things like this. There's even non-programming positions within software firms that help make sure the product meets the standards the customer requested. There's versioning, personal testing/inspection, internal testing/inspection, alpha/beta testing (where SE ignored the vast majority of complaints), etc. This is not just about having "typos" in the code; those would be easy to detect because your program would likely not even compile. This is about having features that are crappy, not well thought out, and untested; poor customer communication; and slow implementation/change of features.

It's more appropriate to say that SE hasn't changed in the last decade, and it's showing.
#42 Nov 09 2010 at 8:28 PM Rating: Default
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Gonzi wrote:
MajidahSihaam wrote:


Correct me if I'm wrong, but the FFXI development team is NOT the same as the one on FFXIV.
FFXIV is NOT an upgrade from FFXI. Its an ENTIRE different and new game. People need to get this in their head.

Edited, Nov 9th 2010 8:14pm by MajidahSihaam


It's still the same company though, do you think if Blizzard made a new MMO it would be a piece of sh*t at launch because it's using different developers? I highly doubt it, stop defending SE, they rushed this game and anyone who thinks otherwise is just in denial.


I love XIV and so does my linkshell. They are guys I met in game and we do our leves together daily. We level a bunch of jobs. It sounds to me that you're in denial because XIV isn't your cup of tea.

You just want to like a game because it has final fantasy as title, don't you?
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#43 Nov 09 2010 at 8:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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JerryTheMule wrote:
I can't wait for the new blizzard MMO to come out so everyone can see, EVERY mmo has its problems in the beginning.


Well, I really don't know how to say it any simpler. Problems are ok, we all understand that theres going to be glitches, and some server crashes. Maybe a few mechanics not working correctly. The what most of us are complaining about in this particular game are things like lazy landscape designs, an infantile combat system, basic game features missing.

I don't give a rats *** about mobs leaving combat and regening hp, or something telling me I can't attack a target. Or a macro not working right. It's just a matter of time for that stuff to get fixed. But I'm not so sure any miracle patch is going to redesign the copy/pasted landscape, and make the combat system not feel like something fisher price made.
#44 Nov 09 2010 at 8:37 PM Rating: Default
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KristoFurwalken wrote:
JerryTheMule wrote:
I can't wait for the new blizzard MMO to come out so everyone can see, EVERY mmo has its problems in the beginning.


Well, I really don't know how to say it any simpler. Problems are ok, we all understand that theres going to be glitches, and some server crashes. Maybe a few mechanics not working correctly. The what most of us are complaining about in this particular game are things like lazy landscape designs, an infantile combat system, basic game features missing.

I don't give a rats *** about mobs leaving combat and regening hp, or something telling me I can't attack a target. Or a macro not working right. It's just a matter of time for that stuff to get fixed. But I'm not so sure any miracle patch is going to redesign the copy/pasted landscape, and make the combat system not feel like something fisher price made.


I don't get people who complain about the battle system. Its the exact same thing as XI but without autoattack.
The only difference is that the mobs are weaker so you can solo.

SE already announced they are adding more party oriented mobs to the game.
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#45 Nov 09 2010 at 8:44 PM Rating: Good
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MajidahSihaam wrote:
I don't get people who complain about the battle system. Its the exact same thing as XI but without autoattack.
The only difference is that the mobs are weaker so you can solo.

SE already announced they are adding more party oriented mobs to the game.


It really isn't. Spell effects are boring, casting is awkward, there's a strange delay between actions, it's highly disorganized and disorienting, and spells and weapon skills are more or less identical. It's basically unrefined.

And for the record, FFXI's combat system was nothing to be proud of either.
#46MajidahSihaam, Posted: Nov 09 2010 at 8:49 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Spell effects are boring: an opinion.
#47 Nov 09 2010 at 9:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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MajidahSihaam wrote:
Spell effects are boring: an opinion.


That a lot of people seem to share.

Quote:
casting is awkward: only due to server lag.
there's a strange delay between actions: again, server lag.


Doesn't matter what causes it, it's there and it's in the way. Also the cast bar sucks, it doesn't accurately show what my cast is sitting at.

Quote:
it's highly disorganized and disorienting: hate dynamics are messed up atm but SE said they are going to fix it. If you learn how to work around it (have a single tank, make sure to keep all mobs in a group busy) the dynamics work exactly like XI.


Hate is all over the place, battle regimens are disorienting, boring and unnoticeable spell effects combined with not seeing party members' TP makes it hard to use battle regimens. Random skill gains forces people to spam low damage inefficient attacks, stand in AOE range, spam point blank AOE heals on self because targetting is awkward, there's no assist. Cancelling spells sucks, sometimes you can't cancel for god knows what reason, debuffs and buffs don't have timers, chaining a weapon skills/auto attacks/MP abilities causes strange 3-4 second freezes where you can't use any actions. Switching from combat to passive mode is laggy and buggy as ****. I can go on for ages. Do you want me to?

Quote:
spells and weapon skills are more or less identical: I've leveled lancer to 13, archer to 12, thaumaturge to 16 and marauder to 23 and this statemente is completely wrong. take a look at marauder's iron tempest and at thau's gravity for example.

Edited, Nov 9th 2010 9:50pm by MajidahSihaam


Compare Blizzard to Fire then. Uh oh, looks almost the same. Compare a weapon skill to another. Same ****. Damnation doesn't look the same as a heal? Well **** me, how could I have missed that.
#48 Nov 09 2010 at 9:12 PM Rating: Good
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Carbi wrote:
The fact that FFXI's release was similar to it's successors release 8+ years later only compounds how pathetically bad it is.

Just because FFXI had a bad rough release doesn't mean FFXIV's release is 'normal' or 'okay'. FFXI was SE's first step into the MMO world, it makes sense that it started rough. WOW wasn't even out then I believe. There were a lot of mistakes to be made. We needed mistakes back then to get to where we are today.

But today, FFXIV's release is unaccetable. When you upgrade you don't start from scratch all over again, you take what you learned, improve the good and revise the bad, and go from there.

Your logic is disgustingly flawed.


This is perfectly put. I couldn't have put it better myself.
#49 Nov 09 2010 at 9:21 PM Rating: Default
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Wolfums wrote:
MajidahSihaam wrote:
Spell effects are boring: an opinion.


That a lot of people seem to share.

Just the people raging over the game, it seems.

Wolfums wrote:

Quote:
casting is awkward: only due to server lag.
there's a strange delay between actions: again, server lag.


Doesn't matter what causes it, it's there and it's in the way. Also the cast bar sucks, it doesn't accurately show what my cast is sitting at.


SE said they are going to fix server lag in the next two big updates. PS: This has nothing to do with the system's design.

Wolfums wrote:

Quote:
it's highly disorganized and disorienting: hate dynamics are messed up atm but SE said they are going to fix it. If you learn how to work around it (have a single tank, make sure to keep all mobs in a group busy) the dynamics work exactly like XI.


Hate is all over the place, battle regimens are disorienting, boring and unnoticeable spell effects combined with not seeing party members' TP makes it hard to use battle regimens. Random skill gains forces people to spam low damage inefficient attacks, stand in AOE range, spam point blank AOE heals on self because targetting is awkward, there's no assist. Cancelling spells sucks, sometimes you can't cancel for god knows what reason, debuffs and buffs don't have timers, chaining a weapon skills/auto attacks/MP abilities causes strange 3-4 second freezes where you can't use any actions. Switching from combat to passive mode is laggy and buggy as ****. I can go on for ages. Do you want me to?


You obviously haven't played the game long enough.
- At higher levels spamming your basic attacks is the least effective way to gain SP.
- While targetting is indeed awkward it has been announced to be changed on the next patch.
- You probably can't cancel because your spell is already ready to go off, blame this on server lag if it won't let you.
- Timers on buffs and debuffs? They have timers on recast, and they start blinking before wearing off. This is a step up from XI.
- Server lag again on the freeze. Its not "chaining", its spam button mashing. Play the game calmly and you won't have to deal with this.
- Switching from mode to mode isn't laggy or buggy.
- Yes please, go on. I still haven't seen a serious complain other than battle regimes being broken. Battle regimes, however, do make sense. XIV is a lot more intensive than XI battle wise, so you'd be accidently mixing up your actions with other player's if it worked the same way as skill chaining on XI.
[quote]spells and weapon skills are more or less identical: I've leveled lancer to 13, archer to 12, thaumaturge to 16 and marauder to 23 and this statemente is completely wrong. take a look at marauder's iron tempest and at thau's gravity for example.

Wolfums wrote:

Compare Blizzard to Fire then. Uh oh, looks almost the same. Compare a weapon skill to another. Same sh*t. Damnation doesn't look the same as a heal? Well @#%^ me, how could I have missed that.


Weapon skills -are- different. Damnation looks awesome actually, iron tempest summons a gust around the weapon which you spin around and turn into a tornado that explodes. A lot of archer skills look awesome too... Do the low level nukes all look similar? What did you expect? You are causing a small fire. You are causing a small gust. And you're probably never going to be touching these spells again later on in the game.

These spells have always looked similar on pretty much every final fantasy. ****, the animations hardly vary much from FF to FF. If you don't like XIV's, you don't like any. Simple as that.
____________________________
FFXI: Dashiel. (Asura) Puppetmaster.
FFXIV: Majidah Sihaam. (Besaid)
Marauder, Weaver & Alchemist.

#50 Nov 09 2010 at 9:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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137 posts
So what does this thread tell us? That SE learned nothing from their past. Defending this horrible launch because 8 years ago they had a similiar launch is beyond belief. 8 years to build on and they are at the same spot if not worst.

People the more you compare this and even show that this launch is no different then 8 years ago, the more your just adding fuel to the fire that SE is out of touch and just plain don't care.

Edited, Nov 9th 2010 10:22pm by doubleax
#51 Nov 09 2010 at 9:31 PM Rating: Decent
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164 posts
Maybe I'm wrong, but the only people defending this game are the crafters and under R25 combat people. Once the combat people get to R25+, maybe they'll see for themselves how bad combat is.

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