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Dev's blame us for their game being less than ideal? Read onFollow

#1 Nov 09 2010 at 6:49 PM Rating: Good
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Sorry for the long subject, I just really didn't know what to put it as.

Anyways, I was reading the most recent "Ask the Devs", and I read something that caught my attention, and instantly put the thought "OH NO HE DIDN'T *snap snap snap*" in my mind, and as you will able to tell by reading on, bothered me a bit..

"Indications as to which attributes are most important to classes within the Discipline of the Land can be found in-game by closely examining the gathering-related abilities obtained via guild marks. Again, for those not willing to invest that sort of time, we have listed the relationships below."

That right there SCREAMS that it's not OUR fault you don't like our game, it's YOUR fault for not investing enough time into it to find things out that SHOULD NOT BE HIDDEN, AND SHOULD BE TOLD TO YOU IN SOME KIND OF TUTORIAL!

As if there aren't enough people already mad at SE as it is, some Developer has the nerve to seemingly blame us for not understanding every aspect of this game. I have been playing this game since launch, and I try to like it. It's just getting harder and harder. I went from playing 2 - 3 hours a day for the first little bit to MAYBE logging in twice a week now, for maybe 30 minutes at a time.

Reading stuff like this puts a bad taste in my mouth, and really gives me the idea that they have no desire to change this game, or follow any of the advice given to them by the games playerbase.



Edited, Nov 9th 2010 5:52pm by Fleven Lock Thread: flame
#2 Nov 09 2010 at 6:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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Uh, that's not how I read it at all. It's more like "those of you that can't be bothered to look it up, here's the info for you". I don't see what this has to do with liking the game.

I can see where you could be ****** off if he said that, and then DIDN'T provide the info. But they do.

Edited, Nov 9th 2010 2:52pm by Pikko
#3 Nov 09 2010 at 6:55 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm sorry, but I found this politely correct. As I mentioned in other thread, There is a lot of info in-game that most people don't want to read or they are waiting for the big ! in the npc heads to show them the way. So they make this tutorials for those kind of players, giving them all the info together so they don't have to go and search for it.

Edited, Nov 9th 2010 7:57pm by RdeLeo
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#4 Nov 09 2010 at 7:02 PM Rating: Default
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SE makes games where half the game is figuring out how stuff works. In this case to be "casual friendly" they gave you a spoiler. What's the problem?

How you even formulated that last sentence(or really the whole thing) out of this material is pretty mind boggling... I would love to hear your every day thoughts. I can only imagine what reactions the most mundane of activities brings into your head.
#5 Nov 09 2010 at 7:03 PM Rating: Good
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Milebrega wrote:
Sorry for the long subject, I just really didn't know what to put it as.

Anyways, I was reading the most recent "Ask the Devs", and I read something that caught my attention, and instantly put the thought "OH NO HE DIDN'T *snap snap snap*" in my mind, and as you will able to tell by reading on, bothered me a bit..

"Indications as to which attributes are most important to classes within the Discipline of the Land can be found in-game by closely examining the gathering-related abilities obtained via guild marks. Again, for those not willing to invest that sort of time, we have listed the relationships below."

That right there SCREAMS that it's not OUR fault you don't like our game, it's YOUR fault for not investing enough time into it to find things out that SHOULD NOT BE HIDDEN, AND SHOULD BE TOLD TO YOU IN SOME KIND OF TUTORIAL!

As if there aren't enough people already mad at SE as it is, some Developer has the nerve to seemingly blame us for not understanding every aspect of this game. I have been playing this game since launch, and I try to like it. It's just getting harder and harder. I went from playing 2 - 3 hours a day for the first little bit to MAYBE logging in twice a week now, for maybe 30 minutes at a time.

Reading stuff like this puts a bad taste in my mouth, and really gives me the idea that they have no desire to change this game, or follow any of the advice given to them by the games playerbase.



I see where that comment could make you think this, however from playing most final fantasy games, old and modern, single player and online SE like to make thier games require skill and alot of running around (gotta love the run to sky without sky warp, even with zitah op) they usually have the information people need somewhere even if its not clear or hard to find.

How I read that comment was that they are acknolaging that alot of people dont like to run around to find some information, so they will give tell us it.
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#6 Nov 09 2010 at 7:05 PM Rating: Default
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Personally I wish they hadn't given us that info. One of the great things about XI was figuring out the games intricacies on our own.


I prefer a game that stimulates the mind rather than just the eyes.
#7 Nov 09 2010 at 7:07 PM Rating: Decent
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Pikko wrote:
Uh, that's not how I read it at all. It's more like "those of you that can't be bothered to look it up, here's the info for you". I don't see what this has to do with liking the game.

Edited, Nov 9th 2010 2:52pm by Pikko


Why should I have to go look it up? That info should have been provided day 1 in a tutorial that SHOULD BE IN THE GAME. Almost every RPG in history has some kind of tutorial telling you what does what, what abilities / stats do what, and so on and so forth. This game has NOTHING. I am sick of having to play this **** game in windowed mode because I have to look so much stuff up!

This like MANY other annoyances in this game are collectivly reasons I am starting to dislike this game more and more every day. I can guarentee i'm not the only one either.

Also another funny thing about this game, they are helping other MMO's out. I got sick of World of Warcraft quite a long time ago, but being already bored of this game, decided to buy myself another month of play. Playing that game is similar to having a LONG WELL DESERVED holiday from work. Work being FFXIV, which right now, is exactly what it is.
I don't care if wow is easy (especially now 4.0 is out) at least its fun, and doesn't frustrate me every time I play.
#8 Nov 09 2010 at 7:07 PM Rating: Good
I don't see how that sentence places blame. They just said: If you're not willing or able to figure it out for yourself, here's a spoon feeding. I wasn't surprised to see, for example, that alchemy is governed by intelligence. Smithing is related to strength. Well yeah! A lot of common sense there. Now no one has to think about it, because it's been spelled out.
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#9 Nov 09 2010 at 7:09 PM Rating: Good
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Milebrega wrote:


That right there SCREAMS that it's not OUR fault you don't like our game, it's YOUR fault for not investing enough time into it to find things out that SHOULD NOT BE HIDDEN, AND SHOULD BE TOLD TO YOU IN SOME KIND OF TUTORIAL!


I posted weeks ago about how almost every DoH class had an ability gained through guild marks that increased the effectiveness of a particular stat on synthesis results and suggested that might indicate at least something about which stats were important for which DoH classes. The information was right there. It wasn't hidden. And it was told to you in some kind of tutorial...and instead of appreciating it and giving SE a bit of credit you turn around and use it as basis to say they blame us for the state of the game.

So again...the question of the year...just what is it that SE can possibly do to do right by you? We blast them when they get it wrong and we blast them when they do it right.

At some point the lynch mob just has to put down the torches and pitch forks and go sleep it off. Frankenstein just wants to live.
#10 Nov 09 2010 at 7:10 PM Rating: Decent
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Seriously this is getting old and annoying. I can see how no matter what, SE will keep doing it wrong for some. If they give you info in the game, its bad... If they don't give you info in the game... its bad too... so... what else you all want from them?
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#11 Nov 09 2010 at 7:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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Do you have any idea how thick a manual would be for a game this size and depth? I ordered a new Blackberry and the book was like freakin 100 pages! This would be a thousand page novel. Also i beleive they arent releasing all the mechanics yet to use cause there still tweaking them and testing if they work. They are doing an awesome job with these "Ask the devs", even if there not really legit questions from us.. its info that is helpful in one way or another
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#12 Nov 09 2010 at 7:13 PM Rating: Decent
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Milebrega wrote:
Pikko wrote:
Uh, that's not how I read it at all. It's more like "those of you that can't be bothered to look it up, here's the info for you". I don't see what this has to do with liking the game.

Edited, Nov 9th 2010 2:52pm by Pikko


Why should I have to go look it up? That info should have been provided day 1 in a tutorial that SHOULD BE IN THE GAME. Almost every RPG in history has some kind of tutorial telling you what does what, what abilities / stats do what, and so on and so forth. This game has NOTHING. I am sick of having to play this **** game in windowed mode because I have to look so much stuff up!


The whole first mission is a tutorial. There was never any tutorial in WoW that explained ArPen. Come to think of it, I've never encountered any MMO ever that runs you through a tutorial that explains exactly what every stat does in every circumstance. And if it tried, I'd probably find the game forums and tell the devs to stop ******** up their tutorial with so much information I have no immediate use for. That's not me defending SE or XIV, that's just the truth. You're overreacting and asking a bit much. It's pretty obvious when someone is just looking for an excuse to rage and that, my friend, is you.
#13 Nov 09 2010 at 7:14 PM Rating: Default
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Milebrega wrote:
Pikko wrote:
Uh, that's not how I read it at all. It's more like "those of you that can't be bothered to look it up, here's the info for you". I don't see what this has to do with liking the game.

Edited, Nov 9th 2010 2:52pm by Pikko


Why should I have to go look it up? That info should have been provided day 1 in a tutorial that SHOULD BE IN THE GAME. Almost every RPG in history has some kind of tutorial telling you what does what, what abilities / stats do what, and so on and so forth. This game has NOTHING. I am sick of having to play this **** game in windowed mode because I have to look so much stuff up!

This like MANY other annoyances in this game are collectivly reasons I am starting to dislike this game more and more every day. I can guarentee i'm not the only one either.

Also another funny thing about this game, they are helping other MMO's out. I got sick of World of Warcraft quite a long time ago, but being already bored of this game, decided to buy myself another month of play. Playing that game is similar to having a LONG WELL DESERVED holiday from work. Work being FFXIV, which right now, is exactly what it is.
I don't care if wow is easy (especially now 4.0 is out) at least its fun, and doesn't frustrate me every time I play.



So you like easy games. That's great! You seem to be the kind of person who would go to the puzzle games section of a site and complain that there were too many puzzles in the games tho.

This game has told you everything that you need to know to play. Across the game are npc hints to figure out the little things about it.
FFXIV has it's problems but this isn't among them. Then as if that wasn't enough they spelled it out for you and you took it way out of context... There is no help for that.
#14 Nov 09 2010 at 7:14 PM Rating: Decent
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Lots of people already seem to be against me on this. Oh well, it's just my opinion. As far as I am concerned, two months is long enough to try and like a game. I'm gonna get out now while I have only lost $50 bucks. You can all have fun with your broken game. There are many more deserving MMO's to spend my money on. SE really needs to stick to non MMO console games.
#15 Nov 09 2010 at 7:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Thank you, we will have fun, that's for sure.
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#16 Nov 09 2010 at 7:18 PM Rating: Good
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RdeLeo wrote:
Seriously this is getting old and annoying. I can see how no matter what, SE will keep doing it wrong for some. If they give you info in the game, its bad... If they don't give you info in the game... its bad too... so... what else you all want from them?


How about making the game fluid? There's no fkin way anybody is going to keep reseting their stats just for crafting or harvesting. Or would you rather just start off with the stats for harvesting/crafting and ******** yourself over later when you decide to finally play a DoM or DoW class? My problem is not that they are not providing information about the game or hiding it, it's that it's a frustrating gaming experience. Everything is random. Nothing is solid or fluid. Everything is based on luck or probability. Even when you are trying to gain SP, it's a probability. You can hit a mob 10 times and not get SP or hit it once and get it. Does that type of system even make sense to you? Everything about it promotes botting. How does it promote botting? This type of game requires long hours of grind for everything. When people get tired of grinding and don't want to waste their time any longer, what do they do? They say fk it and bot. Rather than bot, I think I will just give up. I waited for 3 years for this game and hoped that it would everything like FFXI without the time sinks. I was dead wrong.
#17 Nov 09 2010 at 7:24 PM Rating: Good
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zoltanrs wrote:
So you like easy games. That's great! You seem to be the kind of person who would go to the puzzle games section of a site and complain that there were too many puzzles in the games tho.


Before you go and try to read into my preferences. I LOVE puzzle games, and I buy puzzle games. At least I KNOW i'm getting a puzzle game when I buy one. With FFXIV I thought I would be getting an adventure game, that would take me away from my day to day life for a few hours at a time. Not a game where I spend more time wondering how/why things are they way they are instead of actually getting to play. Plus adventure games / RPG's are about WAY more than killing mobs, and pounding on an anvil... Especially in an MMO, there should be MANY MANY different story lines to follow, not just one, which you get a tiny bit ever 5 ranks, and WAY more diverse quest, not this "Go and kill 4 stray dodo's" repeatedly until you can do the next 10 minute story quest.

Plus wow might be easy to get to the level cap, but you try playing PvP arenas or BG's they can be pretty **** hard to win, especially when everyone is geared.
#18 Nov 09 2010 at 7:27 PM Rating: Decent
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Tenkuro wrote:
RdeLeo wrote:
Seriously this is getting old and annoying. I can see how no matter what, SE will keep doing it wrong for some. If they give you info in the game, its bad... If they don't give you info in the game... its bad too... so... what else you all want from them?


How about making the game fluid? There's no fkin way anybody is going to keep reseting their stats just for crafting or harvesting. Or would you rather just start off with the stats for harvesting/crafting and ******** yourself over later when you decide to finally play a DoM or DoW class? My problem is not that they are not providing information about the game or hiding it, it's that it's a frustrating gaming experience. Everything is random. Nothing is solid or fluid. Everything is based on luck or probability. Even when you are trying to gain SP, it's a probability. You can hit a mob 10 times and not get SP or hit it once and get it. Does that type of system even make sense to you? Everything about it promotes botting. How does it promote botting? This type of game requires long hours of grind for everything. When people get tired of grinding and don't want to waste their time any longer, what do they do? They say fk it and bot. Rather than bot, I think I will just give up. I waited for 3 years for this game and hoped that it would everything like FFXI without the time sinks. I was dead wrong.


I love playing table top RPGs but I absolutely HATE how they're all completely random. No matter what my stats are, I still have to roll dice to find out how my actions will work. And my stats aren't customizable. Wizards of the Coast suck!
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#19 Nov 09 2010 at 7:30 PM Rating: Good
Wow, this went south. Can we have a non-combative hippie tree hugging thread?
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#20 Nov 09 2010 at 7:31 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm gonna start posting this in threads like this, cause I think this is all I can say now:

GameStop

Here. Locate your nearest store, trade in your game, get a new one you will like and give you satisfaction. Enjoy life.

P.D. Or buy online, they even have Free Shipping if you don't wanna go out.
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#21 Nov 09 2010 at 7:32 PM Rating: Good
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1. Losing over 20% subscriptions before subscriptions are making revenue.

2. Stocks dropping considerably right after the launch of FFXIV.

3. Losing one of the biggest investors due to being criticized globally.

4. Giving 1 month of free subscription as a desperate measure. (This says it all)

Even the most hardcore gamers out there are complaining about this game. I defended this game since day 1 of pre-release and now I'm just going to give up.

#22 Nov 09 2010 at 7:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Milebrega wrote:
zoltanrs wrote:
You seem to be the kind of person who would go to the puzzle games section of a site and complain that there were too many puzzles in the games tho.


Before you go and try to read into my preferences. I LOVE puzzle games, and I buy puzzle games. At least I KNOW i'm getting a puzzle game when I buy one.

He's not saying anything about your preferences. He was only using an analogy.
#23 Nov 09 2010 at 7:34 PM Rating: Decent
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RdeLeo wrote:
I'm gonna start posting this in threads like this, cause I think this is all I can say now:

GameStop

Here. Locate your nearest store, trade in your game, get a new one you will like and give you satisfaction. Enjoy life.

P.D. Or buy online, they even have Free Shipping if you don't wanna go out.


I waited 3 years for this fkin game. I spent over 70 bux on this game for the CE. You're telling me I don't have the right to complain about it and ask for them to fix the **** game? If you have a problem with my complaints, don't read it.

P.S. Go ***** yourself.
#24 Nov 09 2010 at 7:35 PM Rating: Decent
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"Indications as to which attributes are most important to classes within the Discipline of the Land can be found in-game by closely examining the gathering-related abilities obtained via guild marks. Again, for those not willing to invest that sort of time, we have listed the relationships below."

Boy do I feel really stupid. When my R6 conjurer decided to try out crafting, I should have checked the crafting guild mark vendor even though I knew I had no marks to spend and wouldn't have any for a long time.

Seriously though, SE has created one of the worst received games in history. And I for one think most of the game design was based on anti-RMT, and developer EGO and arrogance. It's like everything in game was designed to be a time sink.


#25 Nov 09 2010 at 7:36 PM Rating: Decent
I think you're reading more into it then what's there. I've seen quite a few people who claim some variation of "I don't want everything handed to me". I thought of it more as a heads up or a 'spoiler alert' for those who like to hunt for things on their own.
#26Gadhelyn, Posted: Nov 09 2010 at 7:37 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Wow, I guess that makes you special, huh? We're all affected by the quality of the release. Complaining changes nothing, giving constructive criticism does. They're working on things, it's not like they wait until the day before a version update to slap it all together then spend the rest of their time farting around.
#27 Nov 09 2010 at 7:46 PM Rating: Default
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Milebrega wrote:
zoltanrs wrote:
So you like easy games. That's great! You seem to be the kind of person who would go to the puzzle games section of a site and complain that there were too many puzzles in the games tho.


Before you go and try to read into my preferences. I LOVE puzzle games, and I buy puzzle games. At least I KNOW i'm getting a puzzle game when I buy one. With FFXIV I thought I would be getting an adventure game, that would take me away from my day to day life for a few hours at a time. Not a game where I spend more time wondering how/why things are they way they are instead of actually getting to play. Plus adventure games / RPG's are about WAY more than killing mobs, and pounding on an anvil... Especially in an MMO, there should be MANY MANY different story lines to follow, not just one, which you get a tiny bit ever 5 ranks, and WAY more diverse quest, not this "Go and kill 4 stray dodo's" repeatedly until you can do the next 10 minute story quest.

Plus wow might be easy to get to the level cap, but you try playing PvP arenas or BG's they can be pretty **** hard to win, especially when everyone is geared.


well you can call me defending for FFXIV but I am really enjoying having to figure things out bit by bit with the little clues they give here and there, then experiment with my theories and confirm whether I am right or not along with help from others. I think the major problem for you kick in when your image for "adventure games / RPG" is different from that of SE's. They have an even bigger RPG concept than yours I suppose. Seems to me yours is more like "I am now a mage that can cast fire and kill with my super awesome intellect!"; whereas SE is more like "I want to be a mage, I am a mage with spells, but let's figure out how to get better", which, I think, is an even better and deeper role-playing idea.

Think about it, when I want to improve my badminton skills irl, I pick up my racket, I go practise and do drills for an hour of the same shots, repetitively, just to have my shots 1cm more accurate than yesterday. That's like grinding. Then I have to figure out how to improve my power more. I can have theories, like working out. But I can't confirm this until I try it. And if I am told my my coach which drills and which exercises to do, they learnt it from someone who actually spent their life, literally, on badminton (past world champions). Of course we don't want to spend our life on FF, so we are given hints. Irl, there's no hints, or even, we are given wrong hints (who knew we get energy after eating lots of sugar is actually bad for us). I think SE tried to give a too real RPG, for some people, who just want to escape the real life.

I am not very good at expressing my thought, perhaps someone can help me clear it up for the unfortunate OP. It's too bad SE's model of RPG isn't the type of RPG that you are looking for.



Edited:
I forgot to add another note. I would scream when I get no SP for 4-5 mobs in a roll (and 300+ the next one). But then, when I calm down and think about it, I don't necessary improve everytime I go do drills for badminton (or other sports) either. It's usually just one shot that I go, "omg I did it", that gives me the correct touch for that shot. Then I will need many more times of "omg" before I can actually learn it. Perhaps I suck and that's why it's like that for me, but then I do find the XIV system to be very very realistic to what I encounter everyday. The touch of some skill at high level (even for when I finally understand the concepts in my 3rd year real analysis class), can be quite random at times. Same goes for scientific research. How to get the breakthrough isn't by just sitting there staring at the monitor/data. We sometimes get the breakthrough step all of a sudden after spending hours of thinking. But the first 3 hours could have no connection to the final realization at all (ie. 0 SP gain). Once again SE probably made this too realistic.

Edited, Nov 9th 2010 9:04pm by ZeroGPX
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#28 Nov 09 2010 at 7:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
"Indications as to which attributes are most important to classes within the Discipline of the Land can be found in-game by closely examining the gathering-related abilities obtained via guild marks. Again, for those not willing to invest that sort of time, we have listed the relationships below."


I agree that this statement has a bit of arrogance contained within it, which does irritate me a little bit, but to go as far to think that the Devs are blaming us for the inadequacies of FFXIV is absurd. SE knows there are issues with the game, and they are not blaming the players. The extension of the free trial period and the announcement of future patches is evidence that they are frantically trying to fix the issues and ensure players that the issues with be resolved.

To support the OP, this game was supposed to be "casual friendly" and by implying that people are not willing to invest time figuring everything out, completely contradicts the casual friendliness that was announced many times prior to the release of FFXIV.
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