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Wada Responds to FFXIV CriticismFollow

#102 Nov 10 2010 at 6:59 PM Rating: Decent
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Zorvan wrote:
scrish wrote:
Ok a messege to you all only an absolute ****** will see a MMO at release and see release interviews and say they are never going to play it again 5 months is alot of time to improve the game, in 5 months we can have loads more content, very few bugs and a hugely improved MMO.

MMOs are made to change and evolve not to stay at the state they are in at release forever.

After the nov and dec updates all reviews will be useless because the points they all mentioned are supposed to be fixed in those updates.


No, only absolute retards pay for a product that needs 5 months of patches to become a full game.

And you can say all you want about "reviews being worthless after Nov/Dec updates" all you want, doesn't change the fact that right now there's nothing but words and "promises". I consider action more important than words, and I've seen no action from SE yet.


Some of us are enjoying the game without the patches although we recognise that there are certainly some improvements/fixes needed that we are comfortable will come over time.

The real idiot (i dont really like the word ******), is the person who hates this game but spends time posting on these boards anyway. Some people just love to hate - I feel sorry for these people.
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#103 Nov 10 2010 at 7:20 PM Rating: Decent
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MajidahSihaam wrote:
PS3's launch is pretty much unaffected by PC's.


I bought CE PC version. I also own a PS3. I can't tell you as to weather or not i would have played on my PS3 at release due to deleting my ffxiv account because the game being so bad. I can tell you that i have warned every ffxi player on my friendlist that was waiting on ps3... "Don't bother the game blows!" I also have warned all 7 ppl i know irl with PS3 not to waste their money.
#104 Nov 10 2010 at 7:30 PM Rating: Decent
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XIglooX wrote:
hey, to put some validity in the argument: im a ps3 player, i will be purchasing and playing FF14 on ps3 even with how the state of the game is right now. of course it will be a better game by march but the reviews of the game have not discouraged me.

one of the above posters nailed it, its the only MMO on console other than 11 and that pretty much guarentees sales, as it will with me


Many of the people currently playing decided to forgo waiting for the PS3 release and instead, upgraded their PC to play. If FFXI is any indicator, NA players prefer to MMO on PC at a ratio of 2:1 while JP players prefer console at the same ratio. My guess is that even if you picked up a copy for PS3 you'll be joining with many more JP players than you will with NA players. I'm kinda surprised you're not discouraged.
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#105 Nov 10 2010 at 7:33 PM Rating: Good
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OK fanboys / girls. We all know MMOs evolve over time. The point you seem to keep missing, is that this game has numerous flaws, and should not have been released in it's current state.

#106 Nov 10 2010 at 7:50 PM Rating: Decent
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My god...so much hate going around. You guys need to chill! xD
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#107 Nov 10 2010 at 8:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ponderosa wrote:
OK fanboys / girls. We all know MMOs evolve over time. The point you seem to keep missing, is that this game has numerous flaws, and should not have been released in it's current state.


I thought everyone agreed on this now. Doesn't mean we are all gunning for it to fail. Fanboys/girls are now hoping that they significantly improve gameplay.
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#108 Nov 11 2010 at 1:05 AM Rating: Good
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DonFlamenco wrote:
Profit margin on the retail sale of the disc is unbelievable. Especially for the PC version, where the production cost of the disc is minuscule, and you get fanbois (myself included) ordering CE in advance.


You do understand that the 30m they spend on development of the game figures into their profits right?
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Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
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I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#109 Nov 11 2010 at 2:05 AM Rating: Decent
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Zorvan wrote:
MajidahSihaam wrote:
Zorvan wrote:
MajidahSihaam wrote:
Lobivopis wrote:
History is against a turnaround. FFXIV will go on to have a modest number of subscribers but their dream of a WoW competitor are essentially over at this point. You only get one launch with an MMO and SE screwed the pooch on that. They will also have to scale back or outright cancel their plans for fully mocapped and voiced content on a three month release schedule because that will cost more development money that what can be justified for a game with 300-400k subscribers.


You get two lunches. One on PC, one on PS3.


The second (PS3) launch has already be detrimentally affected by the first (PC)launch.


People who game on PS3 and PC and have a computer capable of running XIV.
People who game on PS3 and PC and have a computer capable of running XIV and were planning to buy two copies of XIV.
People who only game on PS3.
People who are waiting on PS3 release to see if the game has changed.

The only people from the PS3 lunch affected by the PC version are the ones in group B. That's a very tiny group.

A clear example of this is bayonetta on PS3 and XBOX. A bad port in a different console didn't stop the game from being succesful.

Edited, Nov 9th 2010 9:43pm by MajidahSihaam


Hate to tell you, but there is no group B.

If you have a PC account, your account works on the PS3 also. See, I have a PS3. I figured I'd play the PC version until the PS3 version came out, since it would theoretically run better on the PS3 and the UI is already designed for it. But considering how the PC version has been treated, and how we as customers are being treated ( I don't pay a subscription to beta test ANY game), I won't be playing either version by the time it comes out on PS3.

Bet you I'm not the only one.

Edit: Also, the game the console players see in reviews is the same they're going to be getting. Same game, same controls, same UI. The only difference is they are going to have lesser graphics ( see those "recommended settings" SE has posted? The 1280 x 768 resolution?). Yeah, that's what the PS3 users are getting graphics wise. Otherwise known as 720p.

PS3 players are watching what happens with the PC. They see if there's any improvement, they see the "promises", and they see how the company treats its customers. By the time the PS3 version releases, SE's reputation will have preceded them.

Edited, Nov 9th 2010 10:00pm by Zorvan

Edited, Nov 9th 2010 10:03pm by Zorvan


This assessment is absolutely correct. PS3ers are going to be wary of the game unless SE plans to produce a viable product while it is still at the PC lvl. If within the next 2months SE does not deliver substantial changes in UI preformance, a better system of trading items between players, a superior method of selling/purchasing goods (market wards removal for an AH or something similar), activating towns in pseudo-beginner regions, and offering some semblance of "end game" content they can kiss the rest of the NA base goodbye. American MMOers are fickle at best and will invariably leave for the next hot item. I am sure many folks played BETA and it was no where near complete then. Patience and putting out a more complete product could have saved them a few hundred thousand subscribers. Potential is just that if the vision is never achieved. I would feel bad for Wada, but his seven figure salary dictates that he be the target of our vitriol.
#110 Nov 11 2010 at 5:25 AM Rating: Default
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Hahaha

I bet Wada wished he didn't say such bold things before. You can't get cocky when it comes to MMO's, no matter how confident you may be.
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#111 Nov 11 2010 at 6:36 AM Rating: Decent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
XIglooX wrote:
hey, to put some validity in the argument: im a ps3 player, i will be purchasing and playing FF14 on ps3 even with how the state of the game is right now. of course it will be a better game by march but the reviews of the game have not discouraged me.

one of the above posters nailed it, its the only MMO on console other than 11 and that pretty much guarentees sales, as it will with me


Many of the people currently playing decided to forgo waiting for the PS3 release and instead, upgraded their PC to play.


@XIglooX - Don't do it. Use your money on something useful and enjoyable like a brazilian wax. IMO some things about this game will never be fixed and are talked about less, for instance any gear for any job at any level. (Not a huge motivator for me to levegrind or levegrind or even to try levegrind then move on to... what else is in ffxiv... oh yeah levegrind.)

@FMN - This is me.

Post note: Here it is 6 weeks after realease, 6 months since i heard the word "Guildleve" and I am still in complete disbelief that this hair brained scheme was thier MAJOR selling point! So... I have a Lexus for sale - paint job looks nice AND HEATED DRIVERS SEAT! Never mind that it has no tires, the motor sputters badly, the banana yellow interior is in great condition, the gauges on the dash are in a different language, every time someone sits in the car one of the pieces of glass will break, all the seats other than the driver seat are just missing or never installed.
#112 Nov 11 2010 at 6:51 AM Rating: Decent
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I was hoping to see the addition of NPC quests. You know, like in most games, you go into a town, and start chatting with a NPC, and he offers you a quest.

Looks like they are sticking to the quest bulletin board system, aka guildleves.

#113 Nov 11 2010 at 7:09 AM Rating: Decent
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Ponderosa wrote:
I was hoping to see the addition of NPC quests. You know, like in most games, you go into a town, and start chatting with a NPC, and he offers you a quest.

Looks like they are sticking to the quest bulletin board system, aka guildleves.


I think quests like these are supposed to be covered by the leves. Read through the paragraph intro next time, it's typically got some little story about the situation. I think they had the idea that with the leve system in place, the citizens of the cities would come by the adventurer's guild to drop off any requests they may have and a reward. Adventurer's can then come by and accept the leves.
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#114 Nov 11 2010 at 7:43 AM Rating: Good
Gadhelyn wrote:
I think quests like these are supposed to be covered by the leves. Read through the paragraph intro next time, it's typically got some little story about the situation. I think they had the idea that with the leve system in place, the citizens of the cities would come by the adventurer's guild to drop off any requests they may have and a reward. Adventurer's can then come by and accept the leves.


In this case I really hope they introduce more than go to x, kill y, reap rewards. I do like squashing enemies like the next person but it would be nice for a little more variety. Some of the Horn in Hand (Is that right?) leves attempt to do this yet they're all kind of lacking. Is there any right now that offer actual "escort" systems in place? Any that have you trying to protect someone from incoming attacks? Maybe something where you have to track down a lost child in the Black shroud, or help a miner reach the mines in Thanalan safely from Ul'dah as a bodyguard, something besides the fetch and gather, or kill this target.

EDIT:
I got a perfect one here! This one came to me as I was, er, assuming the thinker position, aheh.

A leve starts out in Ul'dah protecting a miner on his way to the Copperbell mines. The player escorts the miner there leve ends there, but the story continues! As they arrive another miner suddenly shows up exclaiming their team has been attacked by some bandits that are now hiding in the mines. From here the player is given the option of continuing the story, accepting this new leve but at the risk of losing their current rewards if they fail. Succeed and the reward is doubled. If the player refuses they collect their current reward and the story ends there with them seeking help elsewhere.

Now if the player continues... The player goes deep into the mines and finds the bandits. After defeating them, a miner appears and tells you they saw one retreating to their hideout. If you track them down right now you just might be able to stop their attacks on the miners. Again the player is given another leve option at the risk of losing their current leve rewards if they fail but triple if they win. If the player accepts they are then sent to the deepest reaches of Thanalan to a cave on the map. Here they fight a named bandit, their leader, amongst the rest of the cronies. Defeating them ends the leve and the player is rewarded with triple the reward than if they just did the escort. The catch to all of this is while it doesn't count as the daily 8 limit, each leve is progressively harder and there are special limitations on hand that prevents a whole group of 16 from taking advantage of it.

To add to this, SE can toss in a special mark that flags the player immune from outside help. They did this with some quests in FFXI that prevented outside help from healing or buffing you. And since outside help can't actively target or fight leve enemies it makes it perfect.

Edited, Nov 11th 2010 6:03am by SamusKnight
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#115 Nov 11 2010 at 7:55 AM Rating: Decent
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"Have you done any battlecraft leves yet, where you actually met the person mentioned in the quest?

I've done a lot of leves, and can't remember a single one.
#116 Nov 11 2010 at 8:10 AM Rating: Decent
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If the system is supposed to work the way I described, then there would be no need to meet the people who drop of the battlecraft leves.
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#117 Nov 11 2010 at 8:23 AM Rating: Decent
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I take it, your answer to my question is NO.

What I was trying to say, is that I prefer to interact with a person (in this case a NPC), not some faceless name on a sheet of paper.

#118 Nov 11 2010 at 11:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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I suspect that Wada and the other SE money men are the real culprits behind the FFXIV debacle.

The developers of the game knew it wasn't ready for launch, and I believe that if it were up to them they would have pushed the date back. I can't find the source right now, but I remember watching a youtube interview with Sage Sundi shortly before launch in which he said he wished they had more time to work on it. So I can't imagine that the people actually working on the game would be trying to push it out in its present state.

I can only assume that SE was trying to meet a fiscal deadline. As a business investment, an MMO is a pretty ludicrous venture. You pour tens of millions of dollars into it, sometimes upwards of $100m, over the course of 5+ years. And then it takes another two years after launch to become profitable. And this is to say nothing of the slew of failed MMOs that serve as a sobering reminder of the difficulty of the task, nor WoW, the 1000 pound gorilla looming over the market. From a business perspective, you have to have balls the size of Nebraska to take that kind of risk. There are a number of other safer investments you could pursue, so financially speaking, developing an MMO is sort of like having a financial deathwish, and it must be scary as **** as the leader of a company.

That being said, we have no way of knowing SE's financial situation leading up to launch. They may have simply been trying to hit budgets, but, on the other hand, they may have had their backs against a wall. Everyone assumes they have piles and piles of cash, but don't forget these are finanically precarious times, and lenders are less likely to shell out loans. It is easy for a company to over extend itself, which can spell trouble if they're not able to borrow money like its 2006. And from the looks of it, SE has "overextended" written all over it. They've got their fingers in a number of different market pies--from console games, to MMOs, to free-to-plays--and have bought two major companies, Taito in 2005 and Eidos in 2009 (source). Indeed, it is SE's corporate strategy to spread itself over as many media as possible (same source).

So, I suspect that SE's money stooges felt they had to launch FFXIV when they did. Plus, Wada really seems to be out of touch with the content his company is producing. The article in the OP is evidence of this fact, which states, "Wada admits that there were many things the company missed". But wait, there's more! I read about an SE title a while back called The Last Remnant. It was a critical and commercial failure, roughly finished, beleaguered by bugs, stigmatized by apparent graphical shortcuts. This is what Wada said about The Last Remnant when the game was unveiled: The Last Remnant will "become a cornerstone of our worldwide strategy" (source). And as we all know, he said, now infamously, that FFXIV would compete with WoW. Where does he get this stuff?

Conclusion? Wada is a money man who is out of touch with the product he's trying to sell. And he's the president of the company! In light of this information, its no big surprise to me that FFXIV was pushed out the door prematurely and that the company is loosing its footing.

I really am a fan of SE, and I've enjoyed their games for many years. But I think maybe they've gotten too big. They have Rome Syndrome--over expanded, over extended, running out of gas, and, baby, the barbarians are at the gate. And for all this, I blame Wada. He's the reason FFXIV stinks.
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#119 Nov 11 2010 at 11:45 AM Rating: Good
MightyMolasses wrote:
I suspect that Wada and the other SE money men are the real culprits behind the FFXIV debacle.

The developers of the game knew it wasn't ready for launch, and I believe that if it were up to them they would have pushed the date back. I can't find the source right now, but I remember watching a youtube interview with Sage Sundi shortly before launch in which he said he wished they had more time to work on it. So I can't imagine that the people actually working on the game would be trying to push it out in its present state.

I can only assume that SE was trying to meet a fiscal deadline. As a business investment, an MMO is a pretty ludicrous venture. You pour tens of millions of dollars into it, sometimes upwards of $100m, over the course of 5+ years. And then it takes another two years after launch to become profitable. And this is to say nothing of the slew of failed MMOs that serve as a sobering reminder of the difficulty of the task, nor WoW, the 1000 pound gorilla looming over the market. From a business perspective, you have to have balls the size of Nebraska to take that kind of risk. There are a number of other safer investments you could pursue, so financially speaking, developing an MMO is sort of like having a financial deathwish, and it must be scary as **** as the leader of a company.

That being said, we have no way of knowing SE's financial situation leading up to launch. They may have simply been trying to hit budgets, but, on the other hand, they may have had their backs against a wall. Everyone assumes they have piles and piles of cash, but don't forget these are finanically precarious times, and lenders are less likely to shell out loans. It is easy for a company to over extend itself, which can spell trouble if they're not able to borrow money like its 2006. And from the looks of it, SE has "overextended" written all over it. They've got their fingers in a number of different market pies--from console games, to MMOs, to free-to-plays--and have bought two major companies, Taito in 2005 and Eidos in 2009 (source). Indeed, it is SE's corporate strategy to spread itself over as many media as possible (same source).

So, I suspect that SE's money stooges felt they had to launch FFXIV when they did. Plus, Wada really seems to be out of touch with the content his company is producing. The article in the OP is evidence of this fact, which states, "Wada admits that there were many things the company missed". But wait, there's more! I read about an SE title a while back called The Last Remnant. It was a critical and commercial failure, roughly finished, beleaguered by bugs, stigmatized by apparent graphical shortcuts. This is what Wada said about The Last Remnant when the game was unveiled: The Last Remnant will "become a cornerstone of our worldwide strategy" (source). And as we all know, he said, now infamously, that FFXIV would compete with WoW. Where does he get this stuff?

Conclusion? Wada is a money man who is out of touch with the product he's trying to sell. And he's the president of the company! In light of this information, its no big surprise to me that FFXIV was pushed out the door prematurely and that the company is loosing its footing.

I really am a fan of SE, and I've enjoyed their games for many years. But I think maybe they've gotten too big. They have Rome Syndrome--over expanded, over extended, running out of gas, and, baby, the barbarians are at the gate. And for all this, I blame Wada. He's the reason FFXIV stinks.


+1,000,000 this.

I'm dealing with a similar situation at my job. The head of the company decided that our latest product be released before it was fully tested and before the manufacturing wrinkles were ironed out so we wouldn't "lose our share of the market". While I'm sure that makes financial sense it makes no common sense. Why release something that you are not sure works or you're not sure you can build? Simple reason, money. And sure enough, they didn't work and manufacturing has been a nightmare. It seems to me that the insulation leaders have from those they lead so they "can make important decisions without being bogged down by trivial concerns" is what's wrong with most companies...and countries for that matter.
#120 Nov 11 2010 at 1:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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This company continues to look worse and worse. I'm so sick of the generic responses from their development team. They don't even deserve to be working on this game anymore. "Our testing was too rigid"? More like you screwed up nearly every single aspect this game had to offer.
#121 Nov 12 2010 at 7:08 AM Rating: Excellent
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You know how you can recognize ffxiv alpha and beta testers when you see us ....?

We all have big red marks on our for3heads for all the head slapping and head wall banging we're doing........

"We told you so" does not even begin to express it....
#122 Nov 12 2010 at 7:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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Seems blaming Wada is popular this week. I don't fault him because I feel he was so far above the project, he simply treated it like any other game. They'd had 5 years to develop it, which should have been plenty time. What probably happened was development said they needed tons more time (which they legit did due to the huge waste of time into crystal tools), and he and his team probably gave them a hard deadline, said they'd taken too long and it was being released on 9/30. I blame the developers for failing to make an engine worth the effort, and drastically cutting their development time.
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#123 Nov 12 2010 at 8:20 AM Rating: Excellent
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KujaKoF wrote:
Seems blaming Wada is popular this week.


Pfft, I blame Canada.
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#124 Nov 12 2010 at 12:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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Gadhelyn wrote:
KujaKoF wrote:
Seems blaming Wada is popular this week.


Pfft, I blame Canada.


As a Canadian, I can assure you we had nothing to do with this.
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#125 Nov 14 2010 at 3:26 PM Rating: Decent
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Lobivopis wrote:
DonFlamenco wrote:
Profit margin on the retail sale of the disc is unbelievable. Especially for the PC version, where the production cost of the disc is minuscule, and you get fanbois (myself included) ordering CE in advance.


You do understand that the 30m they spend on development of the game figures into their profits right?


Sorry for being a geeky Chartered Accountant, but whilst this is partially true - it may not be quite as accurate as you think.

Software development expenses are usually deferred over the life of the project. If this game was determined to have a 6 year life, then the development costs would be deferred to match with revenues over the 6 year life. As a result, whilst those costs will affect profit, the hit will not be taken in one year - as a result, your response is only partially true.

HOWEVER, you may be right where the project is determined to be unprofitable. At that point, all expenses incurred will need to be written off to the profit and loss statement.

In all likelihood at this point, SE are arguing with their auditors over development costs associated with this game. SE will be saying that it will be a success in order to avoid a massive hit in their current year result.
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#126 Nov 14 2010 at 7:42 PM Rating: Default
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Alright... I think I've been quiet through all of this long enough...

I've played a ****-ton of MMOs (a long enough list I'm not going to bother listing) of all sorts of varieties since back in the day when they were just text and they were called MUDs. In all of that time, I have not played a SINGLE one that did not have some sort of problems at launch. If you claim that you have, then I have a feeling that you are looking backwards with rose-colored glasses jammed so tight to your face they're nearly contact lenses.

Now notice, I am not claiming that there are NO problems, but really I cannot agree that they are as big as people claim...

For one thing, (and this is my BIGGEST pet peeve) all this whining about inventory I feel is completely meritless (hence I'm calling it whining). I can't recall the exact number, but I believe characters in XI began with, what, 40 slots? And roughly the same amount on your mog house. Then to increase that you had an increasingly expensive quest every 10 levels or so, and by increasingly I mean almost prohibitively unless you were lucky enough to find someone selling one of the high-level crafted items cheaply. Now in XIV, they said, "here... have 80 slots and a retainer with 80 slots, and oh yes, if you wisely use your bazaars then you get a grand total of ONE-HUNDRED-AND-FRELLING-EIGHTY slots!"
Now, surely NOBODY could find reason to complain about THAT....... OMFGWTFBBQ SRSLY?!? *sigh*
Okay, so now we have more retainers coming? 80+10 more slots per (assumably on the bazaar)? So we'll have at least twice the number of retainers in the wards selling garbage that should have been trashed when it was still fresh on people's loot lists. I do every craft, mine, fish, log, and play every battle-class except marauder (which I'm sure I'll eventually add), and I've managed to carry or store all of my gear (a set for crafters, a set for gatherers, and gear for the battle-classes including a stock of arrows for archer) and stocks of basic materials for my crafts. Is my inventory tight? Hellz yeah! I've occasionally had to make hard decisions about what would be easiest to replace before I've made room for something for which I had a more pressing or immediate need or was more difficult to get but was usable in the near future. Do I waste my bazaar selling stuff that any rank one person could get in two minutes outside of any starting city? OH, HELLLLLLL NO!

And to whoever said (paraphrasing) "No good developer would drastically change their system from one game to the next"... Ummm... have you played many Final Fantasy games? Major changes is kinda their stock and trade, and that is probably a huge part of WHY we like them and keep coming back. Sure, not everything they've done here is unique, but they've also pulled a lot of really good ideas together for this game, some of which were the kind of things that people used to complain were NOT in games like XI, Everquest, SWG, and WOW. And NOW that the very things people used to BEG for in other games are here they whine and complain about them.... frelling brilliant way to get developers to pay attention to ideas from our end.

As far as the difficulty of some crafting recipes in regard to ingredients, I can ALMOST agree that there is a problem. My best friend and I have had long discussions about this. Yes, I agree that when the game first started it was almost prohibitive, but not because, "OMG I need a buckle that armorers make and cloth that weavers make to make a piece of leather gear". Instead because when the game first started, there was nobody making "iron" buckles or "lead-grey" hempen cloth. Even if someone could make something by skill, they may not have known the recipe (or had it correct). Yet, somehow we all made it through, didn't we? Because, almost ... like it was planned, the things that one crafter could make that was needed by other crafters (ex. Alchemists making Animal or Fish Glue) began to appear in people's bazaars... and they were VALUABLE! Beyond that, sure you may not have been able to make gear, but even now the easiest/quickest way to level isn't making gear, it's making materials and parts, which you then make in excess of what you need, and can sell to others who need it. It might not be everyone's cup of tea, but I HIGHLY appreciate the level of interdependence shown in the crafting recipes. I do concede that slogging through the wards (even now that they are supposed to be more deliniated, but that was a nice improvement) is a bit frustrating sometimes (I still haven't found the new scythe I need for my rank 30 Botanist... I'm on Kashuan if you can make it, I pay well! :P ). I do look forward to the implementation of some manner of Auction House (though I hope that it is not just an XI-clone, I would rather it fit into the current system so as not to completely render the bazaars/wards pointless). All that being said, I see what the developer's intentions were, and I think they were good intentions, and I appreciate it.

As far as the crafting system in general, well, I can't think of a single other MMO where I have FAILED a synthesis and said, "Whoops, my bad!" or "I shouldn't have done that!" Yeah, I think that sums up everything I have to say about that, and if you don't get what it means... your loss.

To cut this all short (I really want to get to tonight's leves), I don't think the game is perfect, but I really don't believe that it is bad/disgraceful/various-other-epithets. I think most people just had unrealistic expectations coming in on day-one (will they never learn), and SquareEnix is just taking an undeserved beating from people that don't seem to be happy unless they are one-upping eachother on blowing minor issues out of proportion.

So I would like to take one small paragraph to say...
To all the developers and anyone else responsible for the creation of this game: I really like your product. I hope that you have been able to take all of the criticism in stride since most of it, while not always entirely meritless, has been made in undeservedly harsh terms. I think that you also deserve a lot of praise, so I want to relay to you a positive experience of mine. I was out gathering as a Botanist, and I wandered into Coerthas, just to see what was there. As soon as I cleared the narrow gorge and the landscape opened up I immediately thought, "It's like Alaska!" I lived there when I was very young, yet its beauty left an impression even on my young mind. Thank you for so vividly bringing some of those memories back to me. And the background music... exquisite. I look forward to seeing more of Eorzea and to the game as you continue to improve upon it.

#127 Nov 14 2010 at 8:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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551 posts
AilysFoxglove wrote:
Alright... I think I've been quiet through all of this long enough...

I've played a ****-ton of MMOs (a long enough list I'm not going to bother listing) of all sorts of varieties since back in the day when they were just text and they were called MUDs. In all of that time, I have not played a SINGLE one that did not have some sort of problems at launch. If you claim that you have, then I have a feeling that you are looking backwards with rose-colored glasses jammed so tight to your face they're nearly contact lenses.

Now notice, I am not claiming that there are NO problems, but really I cannot agree that they are as big as people claim...

For one thing, (and this is my BIGGEST pet peeve) all this whining about inventory I feel is completely meritless (hence I'm calling it whining). I can't recall the exact number, but I believe characters in XI began with, what, 40 slots? And roughly the same amount on your mog house. Then to increase that you had an increasingly expensive quest every 10 levels or so, and by increasingly I mean almost prohibitively unless you were lucky enough to find someone selling one of the high-level crafted items cheaply. Now in XIV, they said, "here... have 80 slots and a retainer with 80 slots, and oh yes, if you wisely use your bazaars then you get a grand total of ONE-HUNDRED-AND-FRELLING-EIGHTY slots!"
Now, surely NOBODY could find reason to complain about THAT....... OMFGWTFBBQ SRSLY?!? *sigh*
Okay, so now we have more retainers coming? 80+10 more slots per (assumably on the bazaar)? So we'll have at least twice the number of retainers in the wards selling garbage that should have been trashed when it was still fresh on people's loot lists. I do every craft, mine, fish, log, and play every battle-class except marauder (which I'm sure I'll eventually add), and I've managed to carry or store all of my gear (a set for crafters, a set for gatherers, and gear for the battle-classes including a stock of arrows for archer) and stocks of basic materials for my crafts. Is my inventory tight? Hellz yeah! I've occasionally had to make hard decisions about what would be easiest to replace before I've made room for something for which I had a more pressing or immediate need or was more difficult to get but was usable in the near future. Do I waste my bazaar selling stuff that any rank one person could get in two minutes outside of any starting city? OH, HELLLLLLL NO!

And to whoever said (paraphrasing) "No good developer would drastically change their system from one game to the next"... Ummm... have you played many Final Fantasy games? Major changes is kinda their stock and trade, and that is probably a huge part of WHY we like them and keep coming back. Sure, not everything they've done here is unique, but they've also pulled a lot of really good ideas together for this game, some of which were the kind of things that people used to complain were NOT in games like XI, Everquest, SWG, and WOW. And NOW that the very things people used to BEG for in other games are here they whine and complain about them.... frelling brilliant way to get developers to pay attention to ideas from our end.

As far as the difficulty of some crafting recipes in regard to ingredients, I can ALMOST agree that there is a problem. My best friend and I have had long discussions about this. Yes, I agree that when the game first started it was almost prohibitive, but not because, "OMG I need a buckle that armorers make and cloth that weavers make to make a piece of leather gear". Instead because when the game first started, there was nobody making "iron" buckles or "lead-grey" hempen cloth. Even if someone could make something by skill, they may not have known the recipe (or had it correct). Yet, somehow we all made it through, didn't we? Because, almost ... like it was planned, the things that one crafter could make that was needed by other crafters (ex. Alchemists making Animal or Fish Glue) began to appear in people's bazaars... and they were VALUABLE! Beyond that, sure you may not have been able to make gear, but even now the easiest/quickest way to level isn't making gear, it's making materials and parts, which you then make in excess of what you need, and can sell to others who need it. It might not be everyone's cup of tea, but I HIGHLY appreciate the level of interdependence shown in the crafting recipes. I do concede that slogging through the wards (even now that they are supposed to be more deliniated, but that was a nice improvement) is a bit frustrating sometimes (I still haven't found the new scythe I need for my rank 30 Botanist... I'm on Kashuan if you can make it, I pay well! :P ). I do look forward to the implementation of some manner of Auction House (though I hope that it is not just an XI-clone, I would rather it fit into the current system so as not to completely render the bazaars/wards pointless). All that being said, I see what the developer's intentions were, and I think they were good intentions, and I appreciate it.

As far as the crafting system in general, well, I can't think of a single other MMO where I have FAILED a synthesis and said, "Whoops, my bad!" or "I shouldn't have done that!" Yeah, I think that sums up everything I have to say about that, and if you don't get what it means... your loss.

To cut this all short (I really want to get to tonight's leves), I don't think the game is perfect, but I really don't believe that it is bad/disgraceful/various-other-epithets. I think most people just had unrealistic expectations coming in on day-one (will they never learn), and SquareEnix is just taking an undeserved beating from people that don't seem to be happy unless they are one-upping eachother on blowing minor issues out of proportion.

So I would like to take one small paragraph to say...
To all the developers and anyone else responsible for the creation of this game: I really like your product. I hope that you have been able to take all of the criticism in stride since most of it, while not always entirely meritless, has been made in undeservedly harsh terms. I think that you also deserve a lot of praise, so I want to relay to you a positive experience of mine. I was out gathering as a Botanist, and I wandered into Coerthas, just to see what was there. As soon as I cleared the narrow gorge and the landscape opened up I immediately thought, "It's like Alaska!" I lived there when I was very young, yet its beauty left an impression even on my young mind. Thank you for so vividly bringing some of those memories back to me. And the background music... exquisite. I look forward to seeing more of Eorzea and to the game as you continue to improve upon it.



I'm so sorry you believe the criticism is "too harsh" and "undeserved".

Luckily for those waiting for the game to be made right, Tanaka and Wada don't agree with you.

Oh, and on the subject of inventory space, again Tanaka agreed with the criticism. Which is why he stated they're now removing +1 and +2 variations and getting rid of/streamlining the "crap" drops.
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#128 Nov 14 2010 at 9:16 PM Rating: Good
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802 posts
The Glorious SkinwalkerAsura wrote:

+1,000,000 this.

I'm dealing with a similar situation at my job. The head of the company decided that our latest product be released before it was fully tested and before the manufacturing wrinkles were ironed out so we wouldn't "lose our share of the market". While I'm sure that makes financial sense it makes no common sense. Why release something that you are not sure works or you're not sure you can build? Simple reason, money. And sure enough, they didn't work and manufacturing has been a nightmare. It seems to me that the insulation leaders have from those they lead so they "can make important decisions without being bogged down by trivial concerns" is what's wrong with most companies...and countries for that matter.


Getting things pushed out into the market looks good on their resume too...

Lets face it, they are the top, they can easily just dump the blame downwards.
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#129 Nov 15 2010 at 3:16 PM Rating: Default
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90 posts
Quote:
I'm so sorry you believe the criticism is "too harsh" and "undeserved".

Luckily for those waiting for the game to be made right, Tanaka and Wada don't agree with you.

Oh, and on the subject of inventory space, again Tanaka agreed with the criticism. Which is why he stated they're now removing +1 and +2 variations and getting rid of/streamlining the "crap" drops.


Yes, I said it was "too harsh". No, I did not say it was "undeserved" only "undeservedly harsh", a different way of saying the same thing. I never said there was nothing wrong, only that there have always been fixes to be made, and there always will be.

So if you are "waiting for the game to be made right", then I question your definition of "right". When there are no more problems? Well, good luck waiting for that. MMOs evolve over time, because there are always improvements to be made, and that is especially true in the time period after the initial launch. It was true with EQ:OA, SWG (laundry list on that one, and the fixes didn't exactly come fast, and when they did they mostly caused more problems), WOW, FFXI (remember piles of bodies sitting just inside zone borders? You saw them and were like, **********, did someone train a mob to the zone border?" Then you zoned ... lag ... and you got your answer: Yes, yes they did. Attempt to zone back .... lag .... oh look, now I've joined the pile of bodies, lost a ton of exp and time, and have to either wait for a rez or port back to my HP and make the run again! How long did that issue take to fix?).

As far as Tanaka and Wada "not agreeing with me", which part? The part where I said, "nothing needs to change" because I didn't say that. I am glad that they are taking the complaints seriously, I wish every MMO did. I only wish that people would calm down the hyperbole a bit and stop treating minor issues like they are the end of the world.

There are a lot of good things to this game that were done right. I think equal credit and praise should be given to those things. Things like: see the FFXI issue above... notice it is not present in XIV, also no XP loss from death, also being able to teleport without having to find a BLM willing to take a ton of your gil to get you HALFWAY to where you want to go which seriously alleviates the timesink-ness present in FFXI. How about the fact that when you pass through the gate at the ferry you don't get left sitting on the dock if it pulls out right as you're running to the dock [maybe they had updated this later in FFXI, I quit that a while back] leaving you sit there, dejectedly, twiddling your thumbs waiting for the next ferry so you can sit for 10 minutes on that. How about variable difficulty levels on leves so that you can run them yourself if you can't find a group, or upgradable rewards for leves, or that if you fail a leve that you had pumped the reward on then you can wait for the leve reset and try it again (maybe with a group instead of solo). How about basically free crafting skill every time you run a local leve and, let's not forget, the variable rewards so taking a lower rank leve can net you better rewards (in exchange for less skill gain) because you earn a better assessment.

Shall I continue?

No, fine... I probably would even agree with you on some of your problems with the game. However, I think that the "outrage" or whatever is just people blowing minor issues out of proportion because they had unreasonable expectations to begin with. What did you think? That it would be better than seks?

Again...

YES, there are issues that need addressing...
NO, I don't believe people have been voicing their criticisms in reasonable terms...
YES, SE needs to address those criticisms, and in a reasonable time frame...
NO, it is not the end of the world that this game didn't have a perfect launch...
YES, I enjoy it now, and expect to enjoy it even more later...
NO, I don't intend on voicing my opinions of the games problems because I don't feel like I can add anything to that conversation that hasn't already been said, but I can point out the myriad good things that people seem to be missing.

Honestly, take a breather, relax, can't you think of a few good things about the game? If you honestly can't think of any, or don't agree with my points above, well... go ahead and unsubscribe before they charge you. But if you can, then don't you think that those good points deserve to be pointed to as much as the bad points? So far, I haven't seen that happening, and I think that's wrong.

And if you're on Kashuan... if you stick around... hope to run a leve or two with you sometime.

Sincerely,
Ailys Foxglove
-Kashuan


#130 Nov 16 2010 at 12:25 AM Rating: Decent
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2,202 posts
MightyMolasses wrote:
I suspect that Wada and the other SE money men are the real culprits behind the FFXIV debacle.

The developers of the game knew it wasn't ready for launch, and I believe that if it were up to them they would have pushed the date back. I can't find the source right now, but I remember watching a youtube interview with Sage Sundi shortly before launch in which he said he wished they had more time to work on it. So I can't imagine that the people actually working on the game would be trying to push it out in its present state.

I can only assume that SE was trying to meet a fiscal deadline. As a business investment, an MMO is a pretty ludicrous venture. You pour tens of millions of dollars into it, sometimes upwards of $100m, over the course of 5+ years. And then it takes another two years after launch to become profitable. And this is to say nothing of the slew of failed MMOs that serve as a sobering reminder of the difficulty of the task, nor WoW, the 1000 pound gorilla looming over the market. From a business perspective, you have to have balls the size of Nebraska to take that kind of risk. There are a number of other safer investments you could pursue, so financially speaking, developing an MMO is sort of like having a financial deathwish, and it must be scary as **** as the leader of a company.

That being said, we have no way of knowing SE's financial situation leading up to launch. They may have simply been trying to hit budgets, but, on the other hand, they may have had their backs against a wall. Everyone assumes they have piles and piles of cash, but don't forget these are finanically precarious times, and lenders are less likely to shell out loans. It is easy for a company to over extend itself, which can spell trouble if they're not able to borrow money like its 2006. And from the looks of it, SE has "overextended" written all over it. They've got their fingers in a number of different market pies--from console games, to MMOs, to free-to-plays--and have bought two major companies, Taito in 2005 and Eidos in 2009 (source). Indeed, it is SE's corporate strategy to spread itself over as many media as possible (same source).

So, I suspect that SE's money stooges felt they had to launch FFXIV when they did. Plus, Wada really seems to be out of touch with the content his company is producing. The article in the OP is evidence of this fact, which states, "Wada admits that there were many things the company missed". But wait, there's more! I read about an SE title a while back called The Last Remnant. It was a critical and commercial failure, roughly finished, beleaguered by bugs, stigmatized by apparent graphical shortcuts. This is what Wada said about The Last Remnant when the game was unveiled: The Last Remnant will "become a cornerstone of our worldwide strategy" (source). And as we all know, he said, now infamously, that FFXIV would compete with WoW. Where does he get this stuff?

Conclusion? Wada is a money man who is out of touch with the product he's trying to sell. And he's the president of the company! In light of this information, its no big surprise to me that FFXIV was pushed out the door prematurely and that the company is loosing its footing.

I really am a fan of SE, and I've enjoyed their games for many years. But I think maybe they've gotten too big. They have Rome Syndrome--over expanded, over extended, running out of gas, and, baby, the barbarians are at the gate. And for all this, I blame Wada. He's the reason FFXIV stinks.


You sir are full of Win
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#131 Nov 16 2010 at 1:15 AM Rating: Good
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626 posts
Quote:
And as we all know, he said, now infamously, that FFXIV would compete with WoW


i totally remember them saying this in more than one interview back when the first images of the lalafell were showing up online.
but then it soon turned into "this is just for FF fans" which is what everyone seems to remember.
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#132 Nov 16 2010 at 1:21 AM Rating: Good
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2,202 posts
pixelpop wrote:
Quote:
And as we all know, he said, now infamously, that FFXIV would compete with WoW


i totally remember them saying this in more than one interview back when the first images of the lalafell were showing up online.
but then it soon turned into "this is just for FF fans" which is what everyone seems to remember.


dont belive for a minute, that if this game had gotten 2-3mil sale's and 95% retation rate on it's first 2 month's that Se would not be playing the wow killer Card. But since they failed now all you hear from then is "well you know we just wanna be third place in this industry" Lmao!
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