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Racism and evil?!Follow

#1 Nov 10 2010 at 4:56 AM Rating: Decent
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Just recently i have noticed a rather troubling thing and that is the pure racism english speakers are getting from alot of Asian players.

Recently me and a friend went to party when i spoke i got {English} {No, thanks}

After speaking again to the guy his response was that the party was full, now there was only around 6 people there and my LS friend who is also Asian told me it was not, i was then ignored.

My LS friend had indeed left to join me but what is this?

Is anyone else having this? Or is Palamecia just a racist server? These people should be named and shamed!



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#2 Nov 10 2010 at 5:02 AM Rating: Good
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I understand how you feel but asking for heads to roll will not solve the issue. What we can do is pt with players even with different languages and teach them that stabbing marmots is an universal language of love we can all understand =)

English is not my native language, neither is Japanese but I haven't had any communication problems when it comes to parties.

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#3 Nov 10 2010 at 5:08 AM Rating: Decent
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Don't get me wrong i have nothing against anyone in the world but they do with me/us/english speakers.

I have been given no reason as to why though, it is impossible to group or even try and talk with these people as they simply ignore us.

One person i group with the most is a Thai guy who is a really nice dude, he doesnt understand it either. What i am hoping with this head roll is that in future when these people need any help we can stand up to literally these monsters, Raptors? Orcs? these are fine its the haters that arethe villains of FFXIV.

Edit - I dont want to be restricted to who i can party with, i want to party with everyone, infact i prefer none english or none UK, for example when talking to a few over seas friends we often discuss the difference in cultures and such and this i find enjoyable while stabbing raptors in the face.

Edited, Nov 10th 2010 6:12am by wallace87
#4 Nov 10 2010 at 5:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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The main reason, as I understand it, is that a lot of JP players, despite speaking perfectly good English (they are taught it in school along with Japanese, and taught it a lot unlike us and our one semester of Spanish or something <_<) do not trust their English speaking skills enough, either because they are, or perceive themselves as, slow at reading and writing it, or because they slept through English class and don't remember it very well. Because JP culture is more perfection oriented and focuses on communication between others, along with socializing, instead of America's "all about me" attitude and relaxed feelings about imperfect English since half of us natives can't even speak, read, or write our own language that well. <_<; ****, despite knowing tons of big words I still need a spell checker just to make sure I'm writing my words correctly because I've always been terrible at spelling.

So when they say {English}{No thanks.} it's rarely ever because of racism or a problem against English players in general, but instead they don't like the thought of slow inter-party communication and social awkwardness that arises from the language barrier.

Of course, sometimes there's the whole fear of foreigners thing that hasn't totally dissipated from the WWII era, but that's pretty uncommon. There's also some who view Americans as rude and so on, but in reality it's just culture clashing. Likewise, the OP is assuming most Asians are racist against English speakers when in reality it's just different cultural values clashing.

Sometimes I wish I could smoosh the US and Japan into one supercountry since both are extreme opposites of the culture spectrum, with the US being all about the individual and it's lack of culture, and Japan with it's extreme focus on society with lack of individual focus, and thousands of years of culture. Would be nice to even the two countries out to a more balanced, happy medium. :3
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#5 Nov 10 2010 at 5:45 AM Rating: Good
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I play on Palamecia :O
I don't think he/they were racist. Maybe the leader doesn't know English that well, and doesn't want to bother with it when giving orders and coordinating his party. I'm not a native English speaker, but if I was a party leader, I'd require at least average knowledge of English language (not even basic) because telling people what to do, where to go, to stop the **** nuking, to not agro before time etc. - can be bloody frustrating if the guy you're talking to doesn't understand clearly what you want from him (bad memories from Allods and non-English speaking Russian parties - nothing personal ^_^').
And some people just don't want to bother completely outside their native language sometimes. Perhaps he wanted to speak Japanese only within the party, cause he felt like it that day.
Another thing is, "full party" can mean a lot of things; Like, 'we've got people on the way' for example, and some people, depending on the mob they're gonna grind don't necessarily consider 15 to be a full party. 6-man party works better for some mobs than a full 15 one, if on not die-hard mobs. Less people -> slover mob death -> more SP <- more hits on the mob <- more buffs and heals and so on.
#6 Nov 10 2010 at 5:59 AM Rating: Default
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It could be the entire "I can't speak english well, and am embarrased - so I would rather not have you in the party"... or it could be pure racism.

It all kind of goes back to ffxi. When the NA release happened, most JP were happy as **** to have an influx of players to play with.. being cross-culture and diverse game as it was panning out to be.
But after the 500th "{Mitrha}{Penta-Thrust}{Hole}{Can I Have It?}" and "Can you help me with my level cap/Artifact Gear" request.. and the absolute rudeness of the NA culture.. a lot of JP began to hate being around NA (and eventually EU) players. We were looked at as an invading force trying to play 'their' game, rather than a teamup of cultures. Not by all (there are exceptions), but by a large majority.

I played on Alexander, which was an original server, with a heavy JP player base. The problem we had, was the JP GMs had a **** of a lot more power than NA GMs. Basicaly if someone said anything moderately rude to a JP - the NA player was banned (INSTANTLY).. and if a JP player called an NA player every name in the book.. we would report it, be told they are 'investigating the issue' and absoutely nothing would happen. This was a common thing on Alexander at least.. so there was a rift between JP and NA linkshells for the 6-7 years I played the game.

I believe a lot of this mentality will carry over to FFXIV. We're playing "their" game, etc.. I personally could care less who I party / play with.. the LS i'm in is diverse, and it's great.. but I see stuff like this cropping up and want to bang my head against the wall all over again.

Try to move on, keep a positive attitude and find another set of people to party with. Join an LS with common goals - or join multiple LS's to network - especially with the mass exodus we're seeing on Palamecia.
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#7 Nov 10 2010 at 6:28 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Edit - I dont want to be restricted to who i can party with, i want to party with everyone, infact i prefer none english or none UK, for example when talking to a few over seas friends we often discuss the difference in cultures and such and this i find enjoyable while stabbing raptors in the face.


"evil" lol

What YOU want has no bearing on what others want, if they don't want to party with you they don't have to, nobody is forced to do anything. If they want to exclude you based on whatever reaason they want they are quite entitled to do so, you can cry about it or make your own groups and invite everyone.

As someone else said the main reason is, why play with people you can barely understand or who you have had bad experiences with in the past? Even if it is purely for racist reasons they are again entitled to do that, the same as you are entitled to invite only english speaking players if you so wish. This isnt the schoolyard where you can go run to teacher cause the big kids wont play with you, grow up.
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#8 Nov 10 2010 at 7:03 AM Rating: Decent
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I have grouped with some JP players, and have yet to encounter that issue. What I have encountered, is the "awkward" momnets, where you need to say something in party, but the translator doesn't have the words you want, or is to frustrating to use.
#9 Nov 10 2010 at 7:28 AM Rating: Decent
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We had the nearly same when FFXI started. But after several time all played together. I was even in a japanese dynamis shell and a japanese hnm shell and they did like me and other english speaking persons after they gained trust in us.

I really believe this will happen here aswell. Just be very kind to them and never NEVER NEVER call them *** or ***'s. The shortcut for japanese is JPN or JP.
#10 Nov 10 2010 at 7:35 AM Rating: Good
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What YOU want has no bearing on what others want, if they don't want to party with you they don't have to, nobody is forced to do anything. If they want to exclude you based on whatever reaason they want they are quite entitled to do so, you can cry about it or make your own groups and invite everyone.



This. I remember when I invited some American guy to our LS party. I was the only one speaking both languages, and boy did I have a **** of a time translating/explaining in both directions. To cut a long story short: The American guy went ahead and attacked some monsters (our party tank was supposed to do that), I was too slow explaining he shouldn't, people got angry because now we suddenly had two mobs at our heel, I finally told the American guy, he left the PT and called us all ********** Japanese racists". Just because my translation came about 30 seconds too late.

Most of what you call racism is just a calculated decision to spare a well-functioning group the hassle of adapting to (or making adapt) an outsider. Both may take considerably more effort than some are willing to invest. LOL autotranslate and party size +1 in a pick-up group when you can say the same thing in Japanese. Or even better: in a well-functioning long-standing group, nothing has to be explained.

I guess it is, technically, racism. But it also is like not letting the wheelchair kid join your basketball team. ^.^/
#11 Nov 10 2010 at 7:38 AM Rating: Decent
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Unless you are fluent in Japanese, or they are fluent in English, I see no problem with people not wanting to take on cooperative activities with someone they can't effectively talk to.
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#12 Nov 10 2010 at 8:02 AM Rating: Decent
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Rinsui wrote:
Quote:
What YOU want has no bearing on what others want, if they don't want to party with you they don't have to, nobody is forced to do anything. If they want to exclude you based on whatever reaason they want they are quite entitled to do so, you can cry about it or make your own groups and invite everyone.



This. I remember when I invited some American guy to our LS party. I was the only one speaking both languages, and boy did I have a **** of a time translating/explaining in both directions. To cut a long story short: The American guy went ahead and attacked some monsters (our party tank was supposed to do that), I was too slow explaining he shouldn't, people got angry because now we suddenly had two mobs at our heel, I finally told the American guy, he left the PT and called us all ********** Japanese racists". Just because my translation came about 30 seconds too late.

Most of what you call racism is just a calculated decision to spare a well-functioning group the hassle of adapting to (or making adapt) an outsider. Both may take considerably more effort than some are willing to invest. LOL autotranslate and party size +1 in a pick-up group when you can say the same thing in Japanese. Or even better: in a well-functioning long-standing group, nothing has to be explained.

I guess it is, technically, racism. But it also is like not letting the wheelchair kid join your basketball team. ^.^/


This all makes sense and thanks for explaining but i still think that after some time passed and people more into the game it will be possible to have mixed parties as we had em in XI.

I partied with so many japanese people and i really enjoyed it. I experienced them as polite, skilled and non-trash-talking people which just want to go on in the game. Why should this not work in FF14 aswell?
#13 Nov 10 2010 at 8:30 AM Rating: Good
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Just be very kind to them and never NEVER NEVER call them *** or ***'s. The shortcut for japanese is JPN or JP.


I believe the proper nomenclature is Chinaman.
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#14 Nov 10 2010 at 9:43 AM Rating: Decent
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wallace87 wrote:
Just recently i have noticed a rather troubling thing and that is the pure racism english speakers are getting from alot of Asian players.

Recently me and a friend went to party when i spoke i got {English} {No, thanks}

After speaking again to the guy his response was that the party was full, now there was only around 6 people there and my LS friend who is also Asian told me it was not, i was then ignored.

My LS friend had indeed left to join me but what is this?

Is anyone else having this? Or is Palamecia just a racist server? These people should be named and shamed!



Nearco Phalaris - Conjurer


Welcome to Final Fantasy MMO
FFXI had its fair share of "JP ORNY" it is disgusting especially if you put English Only you get shot for it. On the other hand nothing you can do..
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#15 Nov 10 2010 at 9:50 AM Rating: Decent
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Yesterday I joined up with a JP party in Cassiopeia and also killing crabs.

This is my third time or so and while the auto-translate could use a lot more phrases added it to it I got along by using Google Translate when I needed too and they even threw out a few English phrases from time to time. They were VERY friendly and accommodating and at the end they complimented me on my Japanese.

I felt kind of like a fool then and told them I had just been using google translate. But seriously, I recommend bookmarking google translate and keep it open and copy-paste.

This is on Figaro.

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#16 Nov 10 2010 at 10:03 AM Rating: Good
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I have had parties with Japanese people and all was good. They even taught me how to use phalanx!

Maybe they just wanted a Japanese people party? I don't see the problem at all. An useful thing to do is make your own parties and write in the comment "everyone is welcome". It really depends on the individual after all.
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#17 Nov 10 2010 at 11:43 AM Rating: Decent
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First of all, what you are describing is not "racism". "English speakers" are not a race. This is ethnocentrism maybe, but definitely not racism. Racism is far, far worse than being denied a party in a videogame.

Anyways, semantics aside, I have partied with a bunch of JP players and used the auto-translate feature. It was fun, but there are definitely communication issues. Plus, I'm usually on Vent, and that's not an option with other languages. Typing using TAB to auto-complete a translation is also a PITA.

Maybe, they just didn't want to deal with TAB-translation? Maybe, they examined your gear and didn't like what they saw? Maybe they had enough of your class in the party. Maybe none of those are true, but there are plenty of possibilites.

Saying that JP XIV players are racist because you were denied a party, though, is quite the stretch.
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#19 Nov 10 2010 at 1:24 PM Rating: Excellent
This is a very old issue indeed, going back to '03 when XI was released in the US.

While I certainly don't speak for everyone, it's been my experience over the years and years of playing XI that a lot of JP players are just simply more comfortable playing with people who speak the same language.

It's not that they're saying "We don't want to play with you, stupid American!" But rather it seems to be more of a social thing. It's easier to chat and socialize with someone if you speak the same language. Of the many JP parties in XI that I've been a part of, they love to chat it up while playing. Who wants to just be dead silent for possible hours on end in a massively multiplayer game? Also, it's easier to communicate game-related things. Granted, the auto-trans works fairly well for this.

Over the years, I've met and played with a ton of JP players through partying. XIV is still in it's infancy and if what I hear is true, the way the text input currently is for the JP client/keyboards, typing out anything is seriously cumbersome.

So really, folks, there's no need to jump on the racism button like that.
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#20 Nov 10 2010 at 2:01 PM Rating: Decent
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If there's a racism button, mine is stuck in the on position.
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#21 Nov 10 2010 at 2:07 PM Rating: Decent
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DonFlamenco wrote:
If there's a racism button, mine is stuck in the on position.


Are you implying that you are racist or that you feel that you have been the victim of racism within this videogame?

Brandon
#22 Nov 10 2010 at 2:13 PM Rating: Good
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Does it make me racist to keep asking my JP friend to press the JP button for me? She never does - I still have bad luck in XI :( . That probably just makes me superstitious, actually :)

You know, there are jerks in all cultures and I think that as a whole people are just getting far too sensitive and are perceiving insults where they don't exist. While I agree that the short comment of "English No Thanks" feels rude even by NA standards, I don't think that the majority of JP have the malicious intent to hurt our enjoyment of the game or deliberately exclude us just *because*.

Maybe SE will give us better communication tools in the future.
#23 Nov 10 2010 at 2:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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Osarion, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
This is a very old issue indeed, going back to '03 when XI was released in the US.

While I certainly don't speak for everyone, it's been my experience over the years and years of playing XI that a lot of JP players are just simply more comfortable playing with people who speak the same language.

It's not that they're saying "We don't want to play with you, stupid American!" But rather it seems to be more of a social thing. It's easier to chat and socialize with someone if you speak the same language. Of the many JP parties in XI that I've been a part of, they love to chat it up while playing. Who wants to just be dead silent for possible hours on end in a massively multiplayer game? Also, it's easier to communicate game-related things. Granted, the auto-trans works fairly well for this.

Over the years, I've met and played with a ton of JP players through partying. XIV is still in it's infancy and if what I hear is true, the way the text input currently is for the JP client/keyboards, typing out anything is seriously cumbersome.

So really, folks, there's no need to jump on the racism button like that.



While this is true, it's also important to realize that Japanese culture - while having an odd fixation on western pop-culture (Disney is *huge* there)- there's also prevalent undercurrent of xenophobia when dealing with foreigner's.
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