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level spread v. # of party numbersFollow

#1 Nov 10 2010 at 9:40 AM Rating: Default
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Allegedly, there's an SP or XP bonus / penalty for having all of your party members w/in five (5) levels of each other. Allegedly, there's an SP or XP bonus / penalty for having a large party. Any hard data, player tests, dev commentary, theorycraft on these mechanics?

e.g. My Crab party in Cassiopeia Hollow has 7 people in it, all Rank 19-23. A prospective 8th party member presents as a Rank 17. If we let him join our party...does the SP/XP bonus for adding an 8th party member outweigh the penalty for adding someone below the level range of our party?



Edited, Nov 10th 2010 10:41am by DonFlamenco
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#2 Nov 10 2010 at 9:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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Based on my own personal observations, as well as interpretations of what SE has said.... It works as follows.

You get a bonus for having multiple people in your party. This bonus rises as more people join the party within your level range (5 level max). So having 15 people in the party withn 5 levels of each other will yield the highest bonus. This is NOT to say that as soon as someone outside that range joins the party you lose the bonus entirely... It seems to be that the bonus received can differ for each member, and that you only receive a bonus based on the number of people within 5 levels of YOU specifically.


To use your example... You've got 7 people in your party 19-23. All party members are getting a bonus based on having 7 people in the party. When the 8th party member who's rank 17 joins the group, he still gets a bonus based on the number of people in HIS range. So anyone who is 22 or less will count towards his bonus, but the guy who's level 23 will not. So if it's just that one guy who's level 23 and the rest is 19-22, then the new guy who's level 17 is going to get a 7 person SP bonus.

If you're in that party at level 18 or something, then the whole party is still within 5 levels of you, so you're going to get the full 8 man bonus. The guy who's level 23 will not get the bonus from the level 17 guy since he's out of his range, but he will still continue to get the 7 man bonus he was getting before the level 17 guy joined.




......... Sorry it's sorta confusing to type out and I think I'm failing at life at explaining it, but I hope that makes some sense. Again this is based solely on my personal research along with my interpretation of SE's statements about it. I'm 100% sure that the entire party bonus isn't lost as soon as the level range exceeds 5, though, because I've been in this situation many times and obviously you can tell the difference between solo XP and a 15 man bonus.




Edit:

For reference, here's the notes from SE
Lodestone wrote:

Party-Based Combat

Q. What is all this hubbub about a so-called “party bonus”?
A. The party bonus is a feature that increases the amount of skill points awarded to players from combat while in a party. This feature will be in effect so long as the difference in class ranks between all party members is between the range of ±5. In addition, the bonus will be greater the more party members there are.

Q. Why did the version update that went live on October 15, 2010 alter the party bonus to be based upon class rank rather than the number of party members?
A. Under the previous settings, since party bonuses were calculated solely on the number of party members, even players who were too low-level to effectively participate in combat were being awarded extra skill points simply by being present in the party. The alterations to the system were made to prevent exploitation of this in the form of “power leveling.”

Q. If I am in a party with someone beyond the ±5 class rank range, will I be getting less skill points than I would be if I were playing solo?
A. No. Rather, the amount of skill points awarded in these two instances would be the same, regardless of whether the player is solo or in a party. If a party bonus is not in effect, the amount of skill points capable of being obtained will be the same.

Q. Is it possible that the class rank range for party bonuses will be adjusted in the future?
A. We initially set the rank range difference to ±5 in order to avoid the “power leveling” issue mentioned above. We will, however, be continuing to monitor community feedback and examine party formation trends, and the current value may be adjusted should the need arise.


Edited, Nov 10th 2010 11:02am by Eldonia
#3 Nov 10 2010 at 11:15 AM Rating: Default
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From my experience, there is definitely a bonus, if you have a lot of people in the party and you are not a healer.

What concerns me, is this statement:

"If a party bonus is not in effect, the amount of skill points capable of being obtained will be the same. "

It seems you can be in a party, and there will be no bonus. Is this bonus RANDOM like most other things in this game?
#4 Nov 10 2010 at 11:32 AM Rating: Decent
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It would be nice if they made SP green like they do while under Aspect; better yet, if you hover over the SP bar, tell you exactly what the bonus is, even if non-specifc a la "30% chance of gaining 20% more SP on melee,ranged attacks..."

I mean, there must be some algorithm governing both Aspect and party bonus - and "for those willing to invest the time", it's not like there's a NPC buried in a camp somewhere to tell us. What's the motivation behind not making this information transparent to the players?
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#5 Nov 10 2010 at 12:06 PM Rating: Decent
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In practice, I believe you receive a bonus for anyone that is within 5 levels of yourself (whether this is higher AND lower or higher OR lower is another question entirely). 1 person out of range doesn't kill the bonus or penalize you (or anyone else) in any way, only themselves. It only becomes complex when you start thinking about it being bidirectional (as exemplified below). Also again, is it +5 AND -5 or one or the other? SE's lodestone translation completely butchered how this mechanic really works, so it's difficult to say.

For example a party of ranks:

20 21 22 22 24 28 29 31 32

The R20 will definitely receive a 4-man bonus while the R32 will definitely receive a 3-man bonus. The R24 is the big unknown as he could be pulling from both directions. Does he receive a 6-man bonus, a 4-man bonus, or a 3-man bonus? That is beyond my understanding of the system.


Edited, Nov 10th 2010 1:09pm by Furia
#6 Nov 10 2010 at 1:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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Alright...I'll explain what we gathered on this in our LS.
Mun Tay Squirrels near Humblehearth
Level's <22,23,25>
Sp per tick (45,47,51,53,) Never saw anything different.

Same party different classes
Level's <17,22,25>
Sp per Tick (27,31,36,41,45)

Now we added another member from the LS
Level's <22,22,23,25>
Sp per Tick (63,65,70,71,74,75)

We did not test with 4 party members and people being below the (+-)5.

You can test this stuff out and you'll notice it as well. It doesn't make your SP tick any faster (that I know of) but it raises the overall amount you get per SP tick.
#7 Nov 10 2010 at 1:31 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
What's the motivation behind not making this information transparent to the players?


Great question. I'm not sure what % of the player base enjoys theorycraft and data parsing and testing out how these fundamental gameplay mechanics work, but I know that I fall into the lazy % of the player base that just wants to know how it all works together.

Interesting responses so far...thanks for the feedback. So far, it all makes sense, and your explanations are easy to reconcile with my own experiences. I've had parties where we are all 19-26 ish, then we add a couple 16's and people complain that the lowbies are ruining their SP. I would always say I didn't think that was how it worked, but had nothing to back me up ><
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#8 Nov 10 2010 at 1:54 PM Rating: Decent
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The SP bonus is granted if the entire PT is within +-5 levels of eachother.

You receive A bigger bonus for the more people you have that are within a +-5 rank range. so 15 members gets a bigger bonus than a group of 10.

If a single person falls outside that +- 5 rank range the entire groups bonus goes away. However, you don't get a penalty for partying over playing solo. You gain SP at the base rate (solo rate)

This means if you are a rank 10 and you PT with a rank 50 you still gain SP like if you were playing solo, you don't get reduced amounts of SP.

This stops players power leveling lower rank jobs by grouping with higher rank jobs:
i.e. Taking your new rank 1 job out with a team of 10 rank 50 jobs and killing low rank moles for enhanced SP gain.

This allows for a high rank players help a low rank players with out posing a penalty:
i.e. taking your new rank 1 job out with a team of 10 rank 50 jobs to do a guildleve and still gain SP but at the solo rate.


The max amount of SP you can get from 1 mob in a PT is 500
the max amount of SP you can get while solo is 500.


the SP-PT bonus is either greater amount of SP gained per hit or chance of SP proc rate (I think it's SP/hit)
SO it's easier to hit 500 SP/mob while in a PT *IF* fighting monsters that don't die too fast vs 10+ people within +-5 ranks.

If you're PT with people that are outside the +- rank range you can still reach 500SP/mob but will have to fight mobs that take long to kill.


It'll be funny once all the numbers are crunched or SE tells us what the bonus is and it's like +2% SP rate per member for a max of +30% depending on grp size maybe playing with large rank gap players won't be so bad.
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#9 Nov 10 2010 at 2:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Furia wrote:
In practice, I believe you receive a bonus for anyone that is within 5 levels of yourself (whether this is higher AND lower or higher OR lower is another question entirely). 1 person out of range doesn't kill the bonus or penalize you (or anyone else) in any way, only themselves. It only becomes complex when you start thinking about it being bidirectional (as exemplified below). Also again, is it +5 AND -5 or one or the other? SE's lodestone translation completely butchered how this mechanic really works, so it's difficult to say.

For example a party of ranks:

20 21 22 22 24 28 29 31 32

The R20 will definitely receive a 4-man bonus while the R32 will definitely receive a 3-man bonus. The R24 is the big unknown as he could be pulling from both directions. Does he receive a 6-man bonus, a 4-man bonus, or a 3-man bonus? That is beyond my understanding of the system.


Edited, Nov 10th 2010 1:09pm by Furia



Isn't that exactly what I just said? =P


SevenLittleChipmunks wrote:
The SP bonus is granted if the entire PT is within +-5 levels of eachother.

You receive A bigger bonus for the more people you have that are within a +-5 rank range. so 15 members gets a bigger bonus than a group of 10.

If a single person falls outside that +- 5 rank range the entire groups bonus goes away. However, you don't get a penalty for partying over playing solo. You gain SP at the base rate (solo rate)


I'm nearly positive that that's not correct. I've noticed on multiple occasions when Sp'ing on Efts and other mobs with small and large groups that the bonus gets bigger and bigger the more people you have in the party. When you have 14 people versus 4 people on the same mobs, you can notice a huge difference in the skillups you get. I've been in situations where I've had 10+ people in the group all within 5 levels, then had another join making it a 6 level gap... If the entire party bonus was removed as soon as this person joined, it'd DEFINITELY be noticeable.

What information or scenarios have you been in that led you to believe what you're claiming?

Edited, Nov 10th 2010 3:30pm by Eldonia
#10 Nov 10 2010 at 4:46 PM Rating: Good
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SevenLittleChipmunks wrote:
The SP bonus is granted if the entire PT is within +-5 levels of eachother.

You receive A bigger bonus for the more people you have that are within a +-5 rank range. so 15 members gets a bigger bonus than a group of 10.

If a single person falls outside that +- 5 rank range the entire groups bonus goes away. However, you don't get a penalty for partying over playing solo. You gain SP at the base rate (solo rate)

This means if you are a rank 10 and you PT with a rank 50 you still gain SP like if you were playing solo, you don't get reduced amounts of SP.

This stops players power leveling lower rank jobs by grouping with higher rank jobs:
i.e. Taking your new rank 1 job out with a team of 10 rank 50 jobs and killing low rank moles for enhanced SP gain.

This allows for a high rank players help a low rank players with out posing a penalty:
i.e. taking your new rank 1 job out with a team of 10 rank 50 jobs to do a guildleve and still gain SP but at the solo rate.


The max amount of SP you can get from 1 mob in a PT is 500
the max amount of SP you can get while solo is 500.


the SP-PT bonus is either greater amount of SP gained per hit or chance of SP proc rate (I think it's SP/hit)
SO it's easier to hit 500 SP/mob while in a PT *IF* fighting monsters that don't die too fast vs 10+ people within +-5 ranks.

If you're PT with people that are outside the +- rank range you can still reach 500SP/mob but will have to fight mobs that take long to kill.


It'll be funny once all the numbers are crunched or SE tells us what the bonus is and it's like +2% SP rate per member for a max of +30% depending on grp size maybe playing with large rank gap players won't be so bad.


The bonus is individual. I've had a proc of 284 SP gain (Skewer II) in a pt of 14 people, with at least 3 people 8 ranks lower than me. I can't see how I can get a proc of that much SP gain soloing wise, I've tried soloing that exact same mob before and the SP is very pathetic (not to mention it owned me in about 6 hits, Black Eft). Definitely there is a bonus SP for me, because it's almost impossible to get 500 SP without bonus at rank 28+, if it's a leve target + Guardian Favour there might be a very very small possibility.
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#11 Nov 10 2010 at 5:22 PM Rating: Default
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Eldonia wrote:
SevenLittleChipmunks wrote:
The SP bonus is granted if the entire PT is within +-5 levels of eachother.

You receive A bigger bonus for the more people you have that are within a +-5 rank range. so 15 members gets a bigger bonus than a group of 10.

If a single person falls outside that +- 5 rank range the entire groups bonus goes away. However, you don't get a penalty for partying over playing solo. You gain SP at the base rate (solo rate)


I'm nearly positive that that's not correct. I've noticed on multiple occasions when Sp'ing on Efts and other mobs with small and large groups that the bonus gets bigger and bigger the more people you have in the party. When you have 14 people versus 4 people on the same mobs, you can notice a huge difference in the skillups you get. I've been in situations where I've had 10+ people in the group all within 5 levels, then had another join making it a 6 level gap... If the entire party bonus was removed as soon as this person joined, it'd DEFINITELY be noticeable.

What information or scenarios have you been in that led you to believe what you're claiming?


He has no evidence, he's just regurgitating the erroneous mistranslation off lodestone (which unfortunately) is the case with most people. It is patently false that 1 (or multiple) players out of a 5 level range negates the SP bonus.
#12 Nov 10 2010 at 6:55 PM Rating: Decent
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Furia wrote:
Eldonia wrote:
SevenLittleChipmunks wrote:
The SP bonus is granted if the entire PT is within +-5 levels of eachother.

You receive A bigger bonus for the more people you have that are within a +-5 rank range. so 15 members gets a bigger bonus than a group of 10.

If a single person falls outside that +- 5 rank range the entire groups bonus goes away. However, you don't get a penalty for partying over playing solo. You gain SP at the base rate (solo rate)


I'm nearly positive that that's not correct. I've noticed on multiple occasions when Sp'ing on Efts and other mobs with small and large groups that the bonus gets bigger and bigger the more people you have in the party. When you have 14 people versus 4 people on the same mobs, you can notice a huge difference in the skillups you get. I've been in situations where I've had 10+ people in the group all within 5 levels, then had another join making it a 6 level gap... If the entire party bonus was removed as soon as this person joined, it'd DEFINITELY be noticeable.

What information or scenarios have you been in that led you to believe what you're claiming?


He has no evidence, he's just regurgitating the erroneous mistranslation off lodestone (which unfortunately) is the case with most people. It is patently false that 1 (or multiple) players out of a 5 level range negates the SP bonus.


There is also no evidence that you maintain a SP bonus when you have someone outside the +- rank gap, as well as no evidence supporting SP bonus for people within your rank range.

The SP-PT bonus is either: increased SP/hit or increased proc rate.
THe amount of SP you gain from my experience is calculated by the amount of dmg you do. More dmg = higher SP. Therefor skewer II will result in more SP than light thrust, or why heavy thrust results in 2 SP gains 1) SP for dmg (low SP gain) and 2) SP for bind effect (higher SP gain).

Fighting Efts I think is a poor example. THese mobs are grinded on by rank ~25-30 players, the Efts themselves I believe are ~rank 40-45? At least thats what I've been told. The mobs themselves are higher than the players rank. you will receive excellent - decent SP 25-30 purely based on the rank difference. So seeign a difference when a lower rank player joins thats outside of the +-5 is hard to notice.

If you fight mobs that are closer to the groups rank range (turns blue with 4-5 members) and you have a member join thats outside of the +- rank range and you'll see your overall SP/mob go down.

It's purely a judgement call on the PT's part fight mobs that are far above the rank of the part (turns blue with 10+ people) and gain high SP/mob because of 1) length of battle and 2) rank differnce between player mob resulting in increaed SP gain.
or fighting things that are closer to the PT rank range and gettign less SP/mob but faster fights in a smaller PT where if you have someone fall outside that +- range you feel the effect of the no SP bonus more.

I honestly think people are makign too big of a deal of teh SP bonus granted. I don't think overall you gain that much of a bonus for having all members within +- ranks of eachother. The way SP is gained is so random that it's hard to say definite oneway or another.

But from my experience:
fighting monster close to your PT rank range with a person outside the +- rank range results in less SP/mob (no bonus)

fighting monsters close to you PT's rank range with everyone within the +- rank range result in more SP/mob (has bonus)

fighting monsters high above your PTs rank range with a person outside the +- rank range results in high SP/mob (no bonus)

fighting monsters high above your PT rank range with everyone within the +- rank range results in high SP/mob (has bonus)


How did I come to this conclusion?
I was in a 6 man PT fighting Yarzon in mistbeard all member within 3 ranks of each other, all gaining 250-400 SP a fight. Sometimes higher sometimes lower

I change to rank 11 thurm and have everyone say SP gained after each fight for 10 fights SP went down do 100-300 SP a fight. Sometimes higher sometimes lower.

I was ina 15 man PT fighitng Black Efts everyone gaining 250-500 SP a fight

I change to rank 11 thrum and everyone gains 250-500 SP a fight

Can I say definitively that adding someone outside the +- rank range drops SP bonus for all members? No. But from my observations of the test I did It seems when in a smaller PT the rank difference comes into more play because the mobs are closer to the PT rank range than the monster fought while in 15 man PT.

Now tell me your findings with SP rates of PT that are all within +- 5 of eachother in a small PT and in a large PT then what it's like when someone is outside the +- 5 rank range.
So my "regurgitating the erroneous" information is a result of what I've experienced in game, and it just happens to reflect the information on the loadestone.


Edited, Nov 10th 2010 4:57pm by SevenLittleChipmunks
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#13 Nov 11 2010 at 2:09 AM Rating: Good
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I have the say the SE line in question has to be the most poorly written explanation I have ever seen.
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#14 Nov 11 2010 at 2:51 AM Rating: Default
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SevenLittleChipmunks wrote:
Furia wrote:
Eldonia wrote:
SevenLittleChipmunks wrote:
The SP bonus is granted if the entire PT is within +-5 levels of eachother.

You receive A bigger bonus for the more people you have that are within a +-5 rank range. so 15 members gets a bigger bonus than a group of 10.

If a single person falls outside that +- 5 rank range the entire groups bonus goes away. However, you don't get a penalty for partying over playing solo. You gain SP at the base rate (solo rate)


I'm nearly positive that that's not correct. I've noticed on multiple occasions when Sp'ing on Efts and other mobs with small and large groups that the bonus gets bigger and bigger the more people you have in the party. When you have 14 people versus 4 people on the same mobs, you can notice a huge difference in the skillups you get. I've been in situations where I've had 10+ people in the group all within 5 levels, then had another join making it a 6 level gap... If the entire party bonus was removed as soon as this person joined, it'd DEFINITELY be noticeable.

What information or scenarios have you been in that led you to believe what you're claiming?


He has no evidence, he's just regurgitating the erroneous mistranslation off lodestone (which unfortunately) is the case with most people. It is patently false that 1 (or multiple) players out of a 5 level range negates the SP bonus.


There is also no evidence that you maintain a SP bonus when you have someone outside the +- rank gap, as well as no evidence supporting SP bonus for people within your rank range.

The SP-PT bonus is either: increased SP/hit or increased proc rate.
THe amount of SP you gain from my experience is calculated by the amount of dmg you do. More dmg = higher SP. Therefor skewer II will result in more SP than light thrust, or why heavy thrust results in 2 SP gains 1) SP for dmg (low SP gain) and 2) SP for bind effect (higher SP gain).

Fighting Efts I think is a poor example. THese mobs are grinded on by rank ~25-30 players, the Efts themselves I believe are ~rank 40-45? At least thats what I've been told. The mobs themselves are higher than the players rank. you will receive excellent - decent SP 25-30 purely based on the rank difference. So seeign a difference when a lower rank player joins thats outside of the +-5 is hard to notice.

If you fight mobs that are closer to the groups rank range (turns blue with 4-5 members) and you have a member join thats outside of the +- rank range and you'll see your overall SP/mob go down.

It's purely a judgement call on the PT's part fight mobs that are far above the rank of the part (turns blue with 10+ people) and gain high SP/mob because of 1) length of battle and 2) rank differnce between player mob resulting in increaed SP gain.
or fighting things that are closer to the PT rank range and gettign less SP/mob but faster fights in a smaller PT where if you have someone fall outside that +- range you feel the effect of the no SP bonus more.

I honestly think people are makign too big of a deal of teh SP bonus granted. I don't think overall you gain that much of a bonus for having all members within +- ranks of eachother. The way SP is gained is so random that it's hard to say definite oneway or another.

But from my experience:
fighting monster close to your PT rank range with a person outside the +- rank range results in less SP/mob (no bonus)

fighting monsters close to you PT's rank range with everyone within the +- rank range result in more SP/mob (has bonus)

fighting monsters high above your PTs rank range with a person outside the +- rank range results in high SP/mob (no bonus)

fighting monsters high above your PT rank range with everyone within the +- rank range results in high SP/mob (has bonus)


How did I come to this conclusion?
I was in a 6 man PT fighting Yarzon in mistbeard all member within 3 ranks of each other, all gaining 250-400 SP a fight. Sometimes higher sometimes lower

I change to rank 11 thurm and have everyone say SP gained after each fight for 10 fights SP went down do 100-300 SP a fight. Sometimes higher sometimes lower.

I was ina 15 man PT fighitng Black Efts everyone gaining 250-500 SP a fight

I change to rank 11 thrum and everyone gains 250-500 SP a fight

Can I say definitively that adding someone outside the +- rank range drops SP bonus for all members? No. But from my observations of the test I did It seems when in a smaller PT the rank difference comes into more play because the mobs are closer to the PT rank range than the monster fought while in 15 man PT.

Now tell me your findings with SP rates of PT that are all within +- 5 of eachother in a small PT and in a large PT then what it's like when someone is outside the +- 5 rank range.
So my "regurgitating the erroneous" information is a result of what I've experienced in game, and it just happens to reflect the information on the loadestone.


Edited, Nov 10th 2010 4:57pm by SevenLittleChipmunks


Its wierd 'cause your testing result shows that they are right and you r wrong.
#15 Nov 11 2010 at 3:09 AM Rating: Good
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If you go and do the same Test I did, with more numbers.. You'll see exactly what the bonus does.
It's not that hard to figure out people, don't over work yourself!
#16 Nov 11 2010 at 4:25 AM Rating: Decent
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Siulang wrote:

Its wierd 'cause your testing result shows that they are right and you r wrong.



I said using black efts as an example of SP bonus is skewed. Black efts to my understanding are ~15-20 ranks higher than the players killing them, hence it takes a large group of 25+ to take them down in a decenet amount of time.

Of course you will make high SP gains even w/o a SP-bonus just purely due to the fact that those efts are higher rank. You have to use more attacks and more skills to take them down which in turn provides you with more SP.

If you take a group of 15 rank 25 players and put them on Efts they will most likely get close to 500 a fight. (they will probably reach 500 SP long before the mob is dead)

If you take a that same group of rank 25 players and replaced one of them with a rank 19 player they will get close to 500 SP a fight.

If you take a group of 15 rank 30 players and put them of efts they will score above 300+ on most fights. (do to closer rank to mob, and stronger member which need less attacks to kill less SP )

If you take that same group of rank 30 players and replace one of the members with a rank 20, that group will lose their SP bonus. They will see their average SP/mob drop.

It becomes more apparent when you fight in smaller groups because you are fighting mobs that 1) aren't very far above your current rank ~ less than 10 rank difference. 2) take less attacks to kill and 3) you will kill mob long before you reach a 500 SP cap. (unless mob resets repeatedly)

So what I'm saying is: In a large group when you're fighting mob that are 15+ranks above your current level (like black efts) having a greater than 5 level gap in the party doesn;t matter because the mob lasts long enough for you to reach the 500 cap even w/o a PS bonus.

In a small party a SP bonus is more noticable because you gain more SP/hit but the mob dies twice as fast makign it harder to reach the cap, and even more so when there isn't a bonus to SP gain.

What Eldonia said was: While at black efts even with a greater than 5 rank gap in teh PT they were still making large amounts of SP.

I said: This is due to the fact that the mob is higher ranked/lasts longer. Not because they still have SP bonus.

If I'm wrong prove it. Because I'd love to be wrong, there are members in my LS who are about 7-10 ranks below the leaders of the pack and I want them to come SP with us but there is such a stigma that SP becomes super gimped if you aren't all within 5 ranks. That people flat out refuse to play outside that +-5 range.
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#17 Nov 11 2010 at 4:30 AM Rating: Decent
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bbrammer wrote:
If you go and do the same Test I did, with more numbers.. You'll see exactly what the bonus does.
It's not that hard to figure out people, don't over work yourself!



Correct! your observations are spot on.

When you fight in a grp of +- 5 rank range players you gain a bonus. (more SP a tick)

when you fight in a grp outside the +- 5 rank range you gain SP like you would if you were solo vs that same mob. (less SP a tick)
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#18 Nov 11 2010 at 5:09 AM Rating: Good
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SevenLittleChipmunks wrote:
Siulang wrote:

Its wierd 'cause your testing result shows that they are right and you r wrong.



I said using black efts as an example of SP bonus is skewed. Black efts to my understanding are ~15-20 ranks higher than the players killing them, hence it takes a large group of 25+ to take them down in a decenet amount of time.

Of course you will make high SP gains even w/o a SP-bonus just purely due to the fact that those efts are higher rank. You have to use more attacks and more skills to take them down which in turn provides you with more SP.

If you take a group of 15 rank 25 players and put them on Efts they will most likely get close to 500 a fight. (they will probably reach 500 SP long before the mob is dead)

If you take a that same group of rank 25 players and replaced one of them with a rank 19 player they will get close to 500 SP a fight.

If you take a group of 15 rank 30 players and put them of efts they will score above 300+ on most fights. (do to closer rank to mob, and stronger member which need less attacks to kill less SP )

If you take that same group of rank 30 players and replace one of the members with a rank 20, that group will lose their SP bonus. They will see their average SP/mob drop.

It becomes more apparent when you fight in smaller groups because you are fighting mobs that 1) aren't very far above your current rank ~ less than 10 rank difference. 2) take less attacks to kill and 3) you will kill mob long before you reach a 500 SP cap. (unless mob resets repeatedly)

So what I'm saying is: In a large group when you're fighting mob that are 15+ranks above your current level (like black efts) having a greater than 5 level gap in the party doesn;t matter because the mob lasts long enough for you to reach the 500 cap even w/o a PS bonus.

In a small party a SP bonus is more noticable because you gain more SP/hit but the mob dies twice as fast makign it harder to reach the cap, and even more so when there isn't a bonus to SP gain.

What Eldonia said was: While at black efts even with a greater than 5 rank gap in teh PT they were still making large amounts of SP.

I said: This is due to the fact that the mob is higher ranked/lasts longer. Not because they still have SP bonus.

If I'm wrong prove it. Because I'd love to be wrong, there are members in my LS who are about 7-10 ranks below the leaders of the pack and I want them to come SP with us but there is such a stigma that SP becomes super gimped if you aren't all within 5 ranks. That people flat out refuse to play outside that +-5 range.


Soloing hitting on Black Eft -> 12 SP per normal hit, 25ish damage.
In party of 14 with 3 people 8 levels lower than me -> 55 SP per normal hit, 25ish damage.

There.

The assumption that black eft give 500 SP cap without bonus SP is utterly wrong, by hitting around rank 26+ you will see a very very very HUGE drop in SP gain soloing, on anything, from Marmot to Gobbue, EVERYTHING.

Edited, Nov 11th 2010 6:11am by Khornette
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#19klepp6761, Posted: Nov 11 2010 at 2:34 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) are people seriously still debating this? its simple. ON/OFF. if evryone in your party is within 5 levels of one another, you have the sp bonus ON. if even ONE person is outside of the 5 level range the SP bonus is OFF for EVERYONE. I cant grasp why thats so hard to understand, it isnt a magical formula that is crunched based on the individual and his rank in relation to everyone elses, nor is it applied only to certain people. either the party gets an sp bonus for being within range, or not.
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