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No item restrictions ruining the game for meFollow

#1 Nov 10 2010 at 2:34 PM Rating: Good
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I made this post in another thread and got a bit of feedback, so I'm curious if there are others in the same boat as me.

I have found myself playing less and less of FFXIV lately, the grind in FFXI I didn't mind but now there's no motivation, then it sorta of hit me.

"I don't have any goals anymore, what was once in FFXI, weeks of anticipation about your next armor/weapon, planning and saving gil, is all gone. Even moving to chain mail at lvl 23 was meaningful, getting off the **** brigidane was a sigh of relief too. This made grinding worthwhile at least to me because in 2-3 levels I can swap out to the next gear. It was like christmas (with the anticipation) every 5 levels.

In FFXIV, everyone is running around in bronze haubergeons.

Well we can't all be expected to carry a different entire set of gear for each job, esp without a mog house or with 1 retainer only and slow UI. So I guess they just made that design decision, and it went along well with the swap jobs feature that they wanted to promote. And then they figured the trade off was no level requirement for equip wearing, just a penalty and that was acceptable.

Well for me anyways that sort of ruins it. Building an equip set tailored to my job was a huge amount of customizability I liked! When I change jobs from a LNC to a MRD, I actually want to look like a MRD - not the same armor with a different weapon.

But that's just me too, looking good meant almost as much as stats"

This was started in a leaver thread, yes I likely won't be renewing without content I can set my goals on, but since it got off-topic in the original thread I'll move this here.

Your thoughts? Would placing a hard minimum rank cap be worthwhile, say 5 levels under? Then you just sort of need to keep ur similar DoW jobs etc within a certain range of each other.
#2 Nov 10 2010 at 2:43 PM Rating: Decent
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I would love some kind of cap on the gear. That being said... I'd be interested/worried to see how they would do it retroactively and I also doubt to see the any gear wearing rule change or the durability go away.

That said, they could (and might) make changes to repair/durability.

Brandon
#3 Nov 10 2010 at 2:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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That's still there, it's just different. The big one that stands out is the hauby because it does give good defensive stats well before the optimal rank. But if you play around with changing your gear in & out you see that there's penalties for wearing other items too soon. And those penalties don't make it worth getting until your close to optimal. You also don't get the full stat buffs if it isn't generic(no favor) or doesn't favor your class.

Don't know about others, but I still have gear on my retainer I'm waiting to use because wearing them at my current rank turned out to be worse than what I already had. I'm also the type of person that will sit there and equip/unequip while viewing all the stats just to be sure = P

Edited, Nov 10th 2010 3:50pm by TwistedOwl
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#4 Nov 10 2010 at 2:55 PM Rating: Default
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I totally see where you are comming from on this, but I think that SE did this on purpose. The higher rate of wear from newbies in high armor encourages the economy by having to repair the item.
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#5 Nov 10 2010 at 2:55 PM Rating: Good
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I kind of feel the same way. The armor you wear should represent the rank you are. It was a symbol of status and let others know a little bit about you. Sure you get penalized but it's more than just that. It's like some regular joe wearing a doctors uniform. Sure he can't perform a doctors duties but nobody else would be able to tell the difference.
#6 Nov 10 2010 at 2:56 PM Rating: Good
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I feel for the loss of anticipation and getting new gears.

However, I am also a little relieved to know that I do not need to burden myself with wasting tons of tons of time to find every piece of specific gears, which AH or search function, finding "some" gears (a lot of times just 1) for my one job is already cutting into my precious playing time. I gave myself a rule, "if i don't find whant I was looking for (without some search function with list, i don't know what i am looking for if i don't have a web page open) in 20 minutes, i am just going to gimp myself."

Plus, every thing you wear require another thing to fix. that will explode my already busting inventory

so, it was a design decision, and everything has been designed around that decision... I don't see a huge change though, because the whole game will need to be changed too.

so, i actually don't hold a lot of hope for the Nov/Dec patch, but I guess I will hang around.
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#7 Nov 10 2010 at 2:59 PM Rating: Decent
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I also miss the item restriction. I'm a big "look at what I have that you don't have yet" guy. Everyone plays for different reasons so I doubt everyone cares about this. Also, since them game is very solo friendly...at least up til lower 20s...players don't really care what they wear since exp is not based on speed and efficiency...so they don't care about the stat restrictions. In 11...your gear told everyone how dedicated you were to your craft where in 14...I'm not sure anyone really cares at this point.

Kinda sad. Not sure how they would fix this or if its even on SE's radar.
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#8 Nov 10 2010 at 3:00 PM Rating: Decent
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I definitely agree, it's just not as exciting to level up when you can wear anything on any class from level 1. On the other hand, it's probably good for an unplanned reason: because inventory is so cramped and because the interface is so wretched to deal with, only needing to deal with one set of armor isn't all that bad.
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#9 Nov 10 2010 at 3:02 PM Rating: Good
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Ya I know repairing is for the good of the economy, we need gil sinks with everyone running around with millions of gil.

I don't mind durability loss, I still don't think it justifies equipment losing their intrigue and that motivation factor of acquiring and wearing it finally.

If we had a mix of wear at any level equip and restricted level equip that'd be ok too. The rich people who want to play a rank 1 job with lvl 50 gear and can pay the repairs can go ahead. I still want something to look forward to at lvl 30... mercenary cpt gear anyone? :)
#10 Nov 10 2010 at 3:08 PM Rating: Good
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If you're arguing that no item level restrictions is ok because managing all that equipment is too hard with the interface, then your real argument should be that, the interface should be re-worked so that a myriad of items with restrictions can be worn and managed.

As for the time you need to spend finding specific gear, I spent a lot of time in FFXI finding specific gear on the AH, if the market updates are substantial I may just find it ok to spend the same time in market wards finding good gear for a specific job I want to build an eq set for, and actually like doing so. Well that's subjective I guess.
#11 Nov 10 2010 at 3:27 PM Rating: Decent
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First of all, the repairing system is no gil sink. At the moment it is just an annoyance, either because you spend some money which doesn't really matter or because it is takes an annoyingly long time to repair your stuff.

To the OP, I think you can still look forward to the cool equipment and such that you mentioned. Keep in mind that only because you can wear doesn't mean anything. If you don't have the level or aren't close to it is plain crap and finding someone to repair it might prove difficult.

Please keep in mind that we are still at the beginning of the game, even at level 50. I am very sure that leveling past 60 or 70 will become a lot of work and then working for the hopefully cool equipment of that level might become an achievement as well.

From all your years of playing FFXI you should have faith in SE, they will surely come up with some very interesting things and surely several real money sinks.
#12 Nov 10 2010 at 3:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm of the same opinion/situation as TwistedOwl. I still get some of the same anticipation because I (for the most part) refuse to equip something that I haven't hit the optimal level for. I do check and recheck the differences and usually it is the optimal gear that wins out unless the level difference is small (2 or 3 ranks maybe) between my current rank and the optimal rank of the higher level gear. Unfortunately though, it does require more "sitting on my hands" sort of thing and I do find myself putting on the best looking gear for cutscenes and idling, regardless of level. Admittedly that does hamper the "status" aspect of being high rank in town. At this point in the game, higher level does tend to equal more rare, but as the game progresses hopefully there will be multiple horizontal scales of rarity (meaning there are high-status and low-status items for any given level) rather than one vertical scale of rarity where higher level means more rare (kind of a given in an infant game where gear is wholly determined by crafters' levels). I hope that makes sense. I apologize if it doesn't.
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#13 Nov 10 2010 at 3:35 PM Rating: Good
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I commented on this in a separate thread about a week ago in which the OP was complaining about ppl wearing gear outside their lvl. I think that there is definitely something to this. Simply in that it offered a "reward" for which you could aim other than simply attaining a lvl and getting some mild stat boosts. To me, a fun component to gameplay was trying to create the right "build" and reading the forums where people would be discussing the benefits or detriments of various gear on a given job. It was simply another layer of emersion into the game world that seemingly required very little effort on SE's part and that seemed like a win-win for them to me.

I personally have to problem with people wearing whatever they like otherwise, I just feel it removes an easy "reward" system from the game. In it's defense tho, it does offer an opportunity for people to really customize their look as they like and that is cool. I think that as the game evolves and the players "feel it out" and create job "dress codes" for optimal performance you may see this become less of an issue. But it's so new an so much is yet unknown that we're looking at a virtual swap meet at the moment haha.

Either way I'm still finding enough things that I enjoy so that this is mostly an afterthought for now.
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#14 Nov 10 2010 at 4:19 PM Rating: Good
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I personally liked getting new abilities more than new gear most of the time.

As for putting a hard cap on gear, I'm against it until they put more options in. The only thing a hard cap would do right now is make it so you could look at a person and tell their rank, rather than having to check them. There's no sense of fulfillment getting one piece of gear instead of another.
#15 Nov 10 2010 at 4:52 PM Rating: Good
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I think some sort of happy medium could have been achieved here. Obviously this will never happen, but I was kicking this idea around in my head earlier today.

What should be allowed for you to wear should depend on the rank of your highest job. So, say for example you get Lancer to 25. You would have available to you all armor and accessories up to rank 25.

By doing this, you ensure that people don't just skip over everything and go for the top tier gear. The benefits of this are several fold. First off, this helps an economy that sees many lower ranked items get passed over. A prime example of this could be in how bronze scale mail is not something you will often see, as people tend to skip right to the bronze haubergeon. Now, since all new players are forced to, at least once, work their way through the equipment hierarchy, giving people a reason to continue making armor and other equipment that is lower level and still potentially make some sort of profit, or at least a return on their investment.

Secondly, this also benefits the user of the equipment when they decide to go back to leveling some other jobs which they do not have the money or inventory space to devote to more equipment. In some regards it harkens back to using equipment in the Level Sync era of Final Fantasy XI, except that it isn't just something you can only use with the class that you have ranked up.

Lastly, weaponry should have a hard cap, but with a caveat. Square-Enix really, seriously, needs to make more tools and weapons for a lot of classes. Lancers, for example, see a 10 rank gap between their Brass Spear and what comes after that. Marauders as well are stuck with a 10 rank gap between their Rank 10 and Rank 20 axes. And there are simply no shields that are Rank 1, which is ridiculous. And don't even get me started on how there is a 26 rank difference between your first secondary tool as a Land/Hand disciple, and your second one.
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#16 Nov 10 2010 at 5:01 PM Rating: Decent
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Maybe SE could introduce gear that was "Required Rank 40" as opposed to "Optimal Rank 40"... therefore creating gear that could only be worn at a specific level? And eventually just phase out the "Optimal" gear...?

I too dislike this system... I've been using my Iron spear (Optimal R26), since R23.. and I guess I got excited when I get 26 and finally was at the req...
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#17 Nov 10 2010 at 5:02 PM Rating: Good
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I agree with the OP.

Working towards that next piece of special gear was just as rewarding as getting the new ability at a new level.

I also play it my own way and will not start wearing gear until it gives me adequate bonuses in stats. Which usually one maybe two levels below at most.

I hope they introduce some sort of special gear, like AF, that can only be worn at a certain level. They could keep the normal gear as it is. So as not to upset a lot of players.

But some sort of gear to work towards would be a nice feature.
#18 Nov 10 2010 at 5:03 PM Rating: Default
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Lineerlay wrote:
To the OP, I think you can still look forward to the cool equipment and such that you mentioned. Keep in mind that only because you can wear doesn't mean anything. If you don't have the level or aren't close to it is plain crap and finding someone to repair it might prove difficult.


Well as I mentioned before to me, looking good is a very important factor that motivates me to grind to wear equipment with a hard level cap. The simple ability for another person who hasn't worked as hard as me to look just as good as me, regardless of whether it is crap, kind of sucks the magnitude of the achievement away from me.

I'm not going to devote my energy into a game if I can't have some shiny piece of armor only I or other people who have reached my level/done my accomplishment can wear. I think this has relevance to the poster who said that a doctor's uniform should be only worn by doctors not some poor average Joe.

Ya there's an ego component to it, I'm not competitive and respect others who match or do better than me, and am glad they can show off their relic weapon or whatever. I do not like average Joe wearing armor I worked hard to wear properly, cuz like I said "looks are important to me" and I doubt I'm the only one who cares about looks.
#19 Nov 10 2010 at 5:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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I guess I'd have to say that I'll never understand this particular kvetch. It's like some crazy form of MMO S&M domination where you need the developer to wrap a rubber band around your....so you can't....until they say you can.

My gladiator has some over-rank gear that I use on a regular basis just because it's what I felt like making with the mats I had on hand. I also have my gladiator (rank 17) in Bronze Chainmail right now (rank 12) despite having a suit of Sentinel's Chainmail in storage (rank 22) and the option to make Bronze Haubergeons at will (rank 27?) and Iron Haubergeons with relative ease. Why am I wearing over-ranked stuff in some spots and holding off on using the higher ranked chainmail? ***** and giggles I suppose. And also because I don't play for the gear, and I wasn't interested in spending any substantial amount of time researching what the best gear options might be for a rank 15 character and then setting out to make it. I made the Bronze Chainmail in a large batch to seel and decided to keep the +2 for myself. Same with the Sentinel's Chainmail. I've had it sitting in storage for about a month now.

And as I brought up in another thread...imagine having to try and gear around explicit rank caps for 8-9 difference classes that you have on the go. Not gonna happen. You'd have no room for anything besides gear and repair materials. That was one of the major complaints with XI when I played was storage vs. gear requirements for all these different jobs + rank capped missions + + +. It was a pain in the ***. Most MMOs don't ship with players having access to oodles and oodles of storage.

If having that next shiny in your bags waiting for the appropriate level to wear it is so important to you, then why do you wear it before the optimal rank? People are saying it's like Christmas. You open your presents in November if someone shopped early for you and had them lying around the house?

There are benefits to the system as it currently exists that favor those players who are progressing multiple classes simultaneously. If you want to hold on to your shinies to equip them, do that. You don't need a developer prohibiting you from equipping it. We're not all children here.
#20 Nov 10 2010 at 5:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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I enjoy being able to wear armor outside of your rank. What would happen if you couldn't wear your current gear when leveling a low lvl (sub) job? I also like to see who is wearing a hauby at rank 10, it always gives me a good chuckle.
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#21 Nov 10 2010 at 5:24 PM Rating: Good
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Lukky wrote:
I enjoy being able to wear armor outside of your rank. What would happen if you couldn't wear your current gear when leveling a low lvl (sub) job? I also like to see who is wearing a hauby at rank 10, it always gives me a good chuckle.


Same as me, it does give more variety. People don't always wear Hauby too, even if it's just me on Gysahl I've seen less and less Hauby, people wear a lot of different gears now because of the availability, Acton, Tunic, Hauby, Cuirass, Scale, Jacket, Jerkins, Robe, Cowl, etc. And yes, when you change job from LNC to MRD you can look like a MRD too, just put on clothes that favour MRD and not LNC, why won't you do it? Jerkins favour MRD and not LNC, why not wear it when you switch out of your Hauby? Acton favours LNC and not MRD, switch to that as a LNC. Placing a hard minimum cap would be bad, because everyone of the same level of the same class will wear the exactly same clothes, isn't that kill the purpose?
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#22 Nov 10 2010 at 5:30 PM Rating: Good
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SyniteonReflux wrote:
Well we can't all be expected to carry a different entire set of gear for each job, esp without a mog house or with 1 retainer only and slow UI. So I guess they just made that design decision, and it went along well with the swap jobs feature that they wanted to promote. And then they figured the trade off was no level requirement for equip wearing, just a penalty and that was acceptable.


Ya I recognize the management issues for having multiple sets of equipment, one for each job. If I had a choice between lack of inventory and level restricted equipment though, I think I would still go for the latter.

And wish that SQEnix would put in some sort of innovative UI where equipped items took no inventory space and each job could reuse pieces or use an entirely different piece! Of course that's extremely complicated and has many caveats and issues to resolve first.

But having a poor UI is not an excuse, lets assume that we had an amazing interface, ideal state discussion, then level capped eq pros would outweigh the cons in my opinion.
#23 Nov 10 2010 at 5:36 PM Rating: Default
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i ware pug armor lv13 sheepskin harness on my pug rank 16 then switch to lv27 bronze haubby i lose stats by a **** load, there is a cap they just let you equip anything.
problem for me is everyone is selling lv30+ equip only and my high classes rank 16,12.. etc
#24 Nov 10 2010 at 5:38 PM Rating: Good
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Lukky wrote:
I enjoy being able to wear armor outside of your rank. What would happen if you couldn't wear your current gear when leveling a low lvl (sub) job? I also like to see who is wearing a hauby at rank 10, it always gives me a good chuckle.


Yes that's a downside, you would need new equip to level up ur lowbie jobs. But to have a system where there is no gratification to reaching a required level for a certain equip and little in the ways of goal setting, is not worth the trade off I think.

I'm not saying the current system has no merits, I'm saying that adding gear that had level caps would add a "Reward" to grinding without massive development from SQEnix.
#25 Nov 10 2010 at 5:44 PM Rating: Good
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mitmystria wrote:
i ware pug armor lv13 sheepskin harness on my pug rank 16 then switch to lv27 bronze haubby i lose stats by a sh*t load, there is a cap they just let you equip anything.
problem for me is everyone is selling lv30+ equip only and my high classes rank 16,12.. etc


Nope, because Hauby doesn't favour PUG. And you can always ask a crafter to make you gears suitable for your level, bring him the material. The problem with low level gears is that material isn't really readily available, and the people who want it don't understand this and just outright demand it from you without giving you the material in the first place. Crafters make what they have material for, what they can make a profit from and what they can gain Skill up from, as long as it's one of the three there they will make it.
Also, every armour types (e.g Bronze Hauby -> Iron Hauby -> Cavalry Hauby) has 10 ranks difference in between each steps. Sheepskin harness 13 -> Dodoskin Harness 23 -> Leather Harness 33 -> Toadskin Harness 43.
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#26 Nov 10 2010 at 7:15 PM Rating: Good
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The equipment system is a little controversial from other MMOs is this aspect.
It gives you the freedom to equip anything you want, at the cost of having stats penalized for not wearing the appropriate gear. It may be different, but I don't see why this is a bad thing.

I used to play FFXI, and having multiple gears for different jobs of varying levels is a big hit to inventory space. Even now in FFXIV, I will still try to change my gears according to my classes/rank, but for some pieces that doesn't give a huge stat boost, I can forgo and use whatever I have to save some space.

If it matters to you that much, why not put a 'soft' restriction to yourself that you will ONLY equip rank and class appropriate gear? This way not only you get the maximum benefits for that specific gear, you can have, well, something to look forward to as you level.
#27 Nov 10 2010 at 7:51 PM Rating: Good
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I'm carrying 3 full different set of gears (ARC/LNC/DoH) and 3 variety of DoH (based on ranks, mainly Cotton/Canvas/Velveteen - but not complete different). Who said you can't look different when you change class? :p
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#28 Nov 10 2010 at 8:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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Personally I hope they never put an item restriction on equipping gear. I like that if I had the desire to, I could wear a sugarloaf hat on a pugilist. Or chainmail on a mage. Or an item much higher than me because I like how it looks. The item will take a hit to its stats and/or degrade faster, but if I really want a specific look I can go for it.

Unfortunately that is undermined by there being definite "best" pieces of equipment. X helmet has the best +defense, X belt has the best +control, etc.

That pigeonholes players into a certain look. Even if there was an item restriction, players would still all look the same.

I'd actually like to see less restrictions over gear. I'd like to see the whole "favored class" thing completely gone. They should just make it so that X item favors X discipline. That would get rid of the "best" gear problem, like a pugilist being stuck with subligars as their best leggings option. Make the stats between items of comparable rank more even across the board, and that way players can pick the look that they want from their discipline's gear.

Edited, Nov 10th 2010 9:08pm by theweenie
#29 Nov 10 2010 at 8:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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SyniteonReflux wrote:
Well as I mentioned before to me, looking good is a very important factor that motivates me to grind to wear equipment with a hard level cap. The simple ability for another person who hasn't worked as hard as me to look just as good as me, regardless of whether it is crap, kind of sucks the magnitude of the achievement away from me.

I'm not going to devote my energy into a game if I can't have some shiny piece of armor only I or other people who have reached my level/done my accomplishment can wear. I think this has relevance to the poster who said that a doctor's uniform should be only worn by doctors not some poor average Joe.

Ya there's an ego component to it, I'm not competitive and respect others who match or do better than me, and am glad they can show off their relic weapon or whatever. I do not like average Joe wearing armor I worked hard to wear properly, cuz like I said "looks are important to me" and I doubt I'm the only one who cares about looks.


Honestly, it sounds to me like your complaint is really that there's no unique/challenging gear to get. Would you still be opposed to being able to equip gear at any level if there were pieces of gear that weren't just crafted, and were rare/ex (or the equivalent in FFXIV)? Then, not only would you still be able to show off your achievement, you'd actually have *more* opportunity to show off. The achievement wouldn't be the level anymore (which honestly isn't much of an achievement), but the acquisition of the item.

Incidentally, while I don't particularly want them to implement a hard level restriction, I think having some pieces of gear with hard job restriction's might be a little more appropriate. To enhance the idea of job-restricted gear, give each job a trait ability every 10 levels or so, which can be slotted as another job to allow wearing cross class equipment.

One last thing I think they'd have to do if they were going to put in a hard rank requirement: Re-balance the stats, and lower the optimal rank before making it a required rank. Right now, if I have a rank12 piece of gear, and the next item to replace it is rank 22, it makes more sense for me to wear the rank 22 item at rank 16, because even with only scaled stats, its better than the rank 12. In this way, the scaling acts as a surrogate for having more gear options in between levels.
#30 Nov 10 2010 at 8:24 PM Rating: Default
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Regarding equipment and character skill customization, FFXI >>>> FFXIV. I've said it in a few ealier posts that FFXI requires your creativity and skill to customize your equipment set. Not everyone can do the same because there are restriction of RSE set and AF set and JSE set that madee things interesting.

I miss brining 4 sets of gears for each job and it was completely my ideas. My Mnk has Counter set, Evasion Set, Acc+ set, Str/attk Set and Tanking set. My Blm has Nuking set, Dark/sleep set, MP set, Healing set, Buffing set and kiting set. Then my Nin, my Rng, my War, my Drg, my Brd, my Drk and the list go on.

As of now I am at camp Broken Water. a lvl 15 pug wearing Iron Haubergeon and silver earings next to me LOL. Yes, I admit I am having more fun reading the posts here.
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#31 Nov 10 2010 at 9:47 PM Rating: Good
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TwistedOwl wrote:
That's still there, it's just different. The big one that stands out is the hauby because it does give good defensive stats well before the optimal rank. But if you play around with changing your gear in & out you see that there's penalties for wearing other items too soon. And those penalties don't make it worth getting until your close to optimal. You also don't get the full stat buffs if it isn't generic(no favor) or doesn't favor your class.

Don't know about others, but I still have gear on my retainer I'm waiting to use because wearing them at my current rank turned out to be worse than what I already had. I'm also the type of person that will sit there and equip/unequip while viewing all the stats just to be sure = P


Yeah, I rarely wear an item unless I am only 2 or 3 ranks below optimal or at or above rank. I have a pink canvas hat I am not using yet because I can't repair it myself and I am not into paying 6K every day to fix it because I wore it below rank.

I notice a big difference, especially with mainhand tools, in the effectiveness of the item at rank. So yeah, I dunno - no one is making you wear gear that is overranked - so SE really isn't taking anything away from you. Also if something insignificant like a belt or shoes is wrong job or a little overranked - I don't want to have to carry 6 pairs of everything on me... I like this system.
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#32 Nov 10 2010 at 9:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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SyniteonReflux wrote:
Lineerlay wrote:
To the OP, I think you can still look forward to the cool equipment and such that you mentioned. Keep in mind that only because you can wear doesn't mean anything. If you don't have the level or aren't close to it is plain crap and finding someone to repair it might prove difficult.


Well as I mentioned before to me, looking good is a very important factor that motivates me to grind to wear equipment with a hard level cap. The simple ability for another person who hasn't worked as hard as me to look just as good as me, regardless of whether it is crap, kind of sucks the magnitude of the achievement away from me.

I'm not going to devote my energy into a game if I can't have some shiny piece of armor only I or other people who have reached my level/done my accomplishment can wear. I think this has relevance to the poster who said that a doctor's uniform should be only worn by doctors not some poor average Joe.

Ya there's an ego component to it, I'm not competitive and respect others who match or do better than me, and am glad they can show off their relic weapon or whatever. I do not like average Joe wearing armor I worked hard to wear properly, cuz like I said "looks are important to me" and I doubt I'm the only one who cares about looks.


Oh so this isn't about you. It is about making sure those scrubs can't look as cool as you?
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When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#33 Nov 10 2010 at 9:54 PM Rating: Good
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Ilmoran wrote:
Honestly, it sounds to me like your complaint is really that there's no unique/challenging gear to get. Would you still be opposed to being able to equip gear at any level if there were pieces of gear that weren't just crafted, and were rare/ex (or the equivalent in FFXIV)? Then, not only would you still be able to show off your achievement, you'd actually have *more* opportunity to show off. The achievement wouldn't be the level anymore (which honestly isn't much of an achievement), but the acquisition of the item.


Actually yes, a mix would be ok, some items can used by any rank - they would be useful for those who want to level a lowbie job and not have to buy new eq. But just adding some equipment that u could only get by doing x quest u can only get at y level and can only wear at z level, and also was somewhat challenging, would give me something to aim for. AF I guess?



You know now that I think of it, that's probably not too far fetched, but if SQEnix wants me to seriously consider paying to beta test their game they need to be more transparent about their patch notes and development roadmap.

Which reminds me, the leves seem to give random item rewards? They need good quest progression that leads to something good, AND put equipment restrictions on it!

Edited, Nov 10th 2010 10:56pm by SyniteonReflux
#34 Nov 10 2010 at 9:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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I think there's too much worrying about what everyone else is doing and not enough minding your own fence. If you want to tailor your classes to specific gear you certainly can. If someone else wants to be a dunce and wear equipment way outside of their range or for the wrong class, go ahead and let them. I fail to see how that in any way has a direct impact upon yourself. With the current state of the game and the current way the other parts of the system work (such as inventory and that god-awful UI) trying to hard cap gear wont do anything but needlessly compound upon the existing mountain of problems. Besides, the overall class and equipment systems are too different from FFXI to try and tailor them like FFXI's.

I admit, I had a bit of fun tailoring my equipment in FFXI, my pet project before I finally quit trying to crank my Monk's Chakra as high as I possibly could, but the inventory impact was just too great even with maxed out mog safes, gobbie bags, several mules, etc. Since FFXIV stresses having different classes so much more than FFXI ever did I would really hate to see it turn into another cumbersome fashion show of gear sets.
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#35 Nov 10 2010 at 11:07 PM Rating: Decent
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Wow TC good point I had never thought of this and now that you brought it up it makes sense...they should really give gear a min level, I like you always looked forward to the next set of armor.
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#36 Nov 10 2010 at 11:14 PM Rating: Good
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Golophei wrote:
Regarding equipment and character skill customization, FFXI >>>> FFXIV. I've said it in a few ealier posts that FFXI requires your creativity and skill to customize your equipment set. Not everyone can do the same because there are restriction of RSE set and AF set and JSE set that madee things interesting.

I miss brining 4 sets of gears for each job and it was completely my ideas. My Mnk has Counter set, Evasion Set, Acc+ set, Str/attk Set and Tanking set. My Blm has Nuking set, Dark/sleep set, MP set, Healing set, Buffing set and kiting set. Then my Nin, my Rng, my War, my Drg, my Brd, my Drk and the list go on.

As of now I am at camp Broken Water. a lvl 15 pug wearing Iron Haubergeon and silver earings next to me LOL. Yes, I admit I am having more fun reading the posts here.


You certainly can do that in FFXIV, there are quite a variety of gears out there. For instance, PUG has a choice between Jacket and Harness with Harness provide more Evasion. PUG wearing Iron Haubergeon will have terrible every single stat, simply because it doesn't favour PUG and he is too low for the Optimal Rank, double penalty ftw. If you're just looking at LNC there are:
Cuirass -> Simply best HP/DEF
Haubergeon -> Watered down DEF for more Evasion/STR (+8 STR is not a little, that's a lot considered at 120+ STR you need 4 points for every STR)
Jacket -> Even lesser DEF for more Evasion/DEX
Scale Mail/Acton -> Trade DEF for overall mix of stat, with the Acton actually favours THM as well as giving +MP for mixing LNC/THM.
So yes, you can build 4 sets of gears in FFXIV for each job, you just don't want to and say the game doesn't allow.
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#37 Nov 10 2010 at 11:25 PM Rating: Default
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Nope, because Hauby doesn't favour PUG. And you can always ask a crafter to make you gears suitable for your level, bring him the material. The problem with low level gears is that material isn't really readily available

i was giving an example.

well when you stay close to the optimum level & class for that armor things wont ware out fast or have a stat reduction but alot of people whining about armor waring out and spening money to repair cuz there wearing armor too high for there rank having armor you higher than you will be stronger. but your weapon & undergraments still goes pertty fast.
#38 Nov 10 2010 at 11:33 PM Rating: Decent
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I haven't had my Cuirass repaired for almost 3 ranks, yet I have had my Sollerets/Spear/Harpoon/Mitts repaired very frequently. The equipment degrade faster when you're under Optimal rank is FALSE.
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#39 Nov 10 2010 at 11:40 PM Rating: Decent
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Khornette wrote:
Golophei wrote:
Regarding equipment and character skill customization, FFXI >>>> FFXIV. I've said it in a few ealier posts that FFXI requires your creativity and skill to customize your equipment set. Not everyone can do the same because there are restriction of RSE set and AF set and JSE set that madee things interesting.

I miss brining 4 sets of gears for each job and it was completely my ideas. My Mnk has Counter set, Evasion Set, Acc+ set, Str/attk Set and Tanking set. My Blm has Nuking set, Dark/sleep set, MP set, Healing set, Buffing set and kiting set. Then my Nin, my Rng, my War, my Drg, my Brd, my Drk and the list go on.

As of now I am at camp Broken Water. a lvl 15 pug wearing Iron Haubergeon and silver earings next to me LOL. Yes, I admit I am having more fun reading the posts here.


You certainly can do that in FFXIV, there are quite a variety of gears out there. For instance, PUG has a choice between Jacket and Harness with Harness provide more Evasion. PUG wearing Iron Haubergeon will have terrible every single stat, simply because it doesn't favour PUG and he is too low for the Optimal Rank, double penalty ftw. If you're just looking at LNC there are:
Cuirass -> Simply best HP/DEF
Haubergeon -> Watered down DEF for more Evasion/STR (+8 STR is not a little, that's a lot considered at 120+ STR you need 4 points for every STR)
Jacket -> Even lesser DEF for more Evasion/DEX
Scale Mail/Acton -> Trade DEF for overall mix of stat, with the Acton actually favours THM as well as giving +MP for mixing LNC/THM.
So yes, you can build 4 sets of gears in FFXIV for each job, you just don't want to and say the game doesn't allow.



Yes I can build 4 set just like you said but what is the point and who will do that with such precious little space left? In FFXI we all switch gears IN THE MIDDLE OF BATTLE to get the most optimal performance but we are not allow do that in FFXIV. It is kinda one dimensional when comparing to FFXI.
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#40 Nov 11 2010 at 12:22 AM Rating: Good
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FFXIV does allow you to CHANGE ARMOUR IN THE MIDDLE OF BATTLE, but just not the weapon/class. You just have to disengaged (while your party is still engaging, battle still going on), click your armour change macro. I've had tons of time when I was repairing stuff and someone in my party engage mob, I quickly click my Macro and changed into full combat gears... except I'm still holding Goldsmith hammer. Throw rock ftw.
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#41 Nov 11 2010 at 2:38 PM Rating: Decent
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teired gear sucks. that is all.

p.s. the optimal level system is just fine, morons who want to wear highre gear apparently dnot look at their stats. cuause i know even if i have vastly superior gear, if im not within atleast 2 levels my stats go DOWN.

p.s.s. if anything they need to remove all restrictions and VASTLY improve itemization. itemization is why i quit ffxi. there is so little variety in gear i can count it on one hand practically. everyone of every class is wearing the exact same gear. dont even need to look. Take some lessons from EQ1, the original ffs. ages old and u could equip a ssoy or a wurmy @ level 1 if you wanted to, granted there were a million different weapons and armors etc. ah the good ole days.
#42 Nov 12 2010 at 3:28 AM Rating: Decent
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Personally I think it's a great design decision to allow flexibility in cosmetics, but I really prefer systems that allow you to assign whichever stats to whichever graphic you want. i.e., appearance and performance aren't totally related.

It can still be hard to earn cosmetic pieces this way, too. Working on your character's looks and stats just become different goals. Though I'm not one that necessarily feels the need to have gear for status. In particular I'd rather there be some visual indication of stats/trophies/medals rather than the appearance of gear.

I see the appeal in a world where the most badass players have the most badass looking gear. But I also think that if your system makes characters have to choose between looking badass and being badass, your system needs work. e.g., subligars with great stats
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#43 Nov 12 2010 at 12:15 PM Rating: Decent
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I love the current model in that, if you do wear gear too early, it damages a lot faster. It is less functional, and well, now it screams more of a newb to do it and have the gear too early than the people wearing the right gear for the level.

My favorite currently is seeing people with damaged or highly damaged gear. And while the party system is broke, once it is working, I have already decided that my first rule of thumb will be to leave any party where the tank is highly damaged. Since you will have almost no stats from your damaged gear, as a tank you will be virtually worthless (will not keep hate, will not hit, will take damage like a mage). There is also the fact that skill is based on weapon condition, damaged or highly damaged weapons is basically throwing away SP.

So, while now they let you basically make a fool of yourself by allowing you to wear gear that is either not meant for your job, or gear that is not meant for your level, the real sign of focus and dedication to a job will be people who pay attention to their current gear, and not the people who just wear the best gear they can find because it's the best.

On a side note, wearing under leveled gear also wears fast, so it's a catch 22. If your gear is too low, it damages quickly, and you end up sucking, if your gear is too high, your gear damages too quickly, and you end up sucking. If you are keeping your gear in line with your character, you will be able to fight longer, and perform better.

Makes sense to me.
#44 Nov 12 2010 at 12:52 PM Rating: Good
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I'd like to offer a different perspective . . . .

I understand the gear thing because there are no restrictions on what you can put on you, which either can be good or bad.

What I would like to propose is that much of the gear available now is starter gear, available for release of the game. Even in XI there were gear and weapons that came out during the life of the game that were in all accounts challenging to earn/get.

I remember getting my first dingot and synthing it into a hauby+1
or finally get my ebow
or the adaman set
perle set
so on and so forth

I think its to early not to be motivated for new potential gear and how we will be attaining it, let's face it there will be pieces or weapons that will be only quest, nm, storyline, or by some other means available

new crafting recipes will be coming even as early as Dec

I think this conversation is a bit pre mature

If I was, and mind you i actually am very gear conscious I would focus on amassing as much gil as possible now
to be one of the first people to get pieces as they become available.

This is a just an idea being presented from this perspective and its what logically i think is what will end up happening.

Crafters I haven't forgotten about you recipes and nm drops will also garner items and mats for you guys to make and sell to us the willing buying players.

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